Harlem education reformer Geoffrey Canada: Bad teachers must be fired
MACKINAC ISLAND—Harlem education reformer Geoffrey Canada delivered a passionate call for changing the education system to allow for the firing of ineffective teachers.
Geoffrey Canada, CEO and founder of Harlem Children's Zone, said ineffective teachers need to find another industry.
Nathan Bomey | AnnArbor.com
"If you get paid to work with people’s kids, you should have the same expectation for those kids as for your own kids," he said. "I believe if you get paid to educate a child, and you cannot do it, and not almost — but you just cannot do it — then you probably should go into a different business."
He added: "People say, 'Did he just say you should fire people?' Yeah, I think you should fire them."
Canada rose to fame after the Harlem Children's Zone, which he founded, was featured in the K-12 documentary "Waiting for Superman" and various books and TV shows.
Asked how Detroit should proceed in reforming its school system, Canada said his experiences show that the best approach is to start with a focused strategy on a small subset of the community — and build from there.
"We don’t need another Ph.D.-written (paper) on some educational theory. We need people who can actually come into communities and do the work. It’s in doing the work where you find out how things fall apart," he said. "So I would say, get a district of schools, some feeder schools, a middle school and a high school and make that system work and then expand that to a larger area."
Canada appeared on stage with Roy Roberts, the new emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools.
Roberts suggested that one of the education system's largest problems is a dysfunctional culture.
"Culture will eat strategy for breakfast, and we’ve got to change culture," Roberts said.
Canada said that college admission should be the top goal of an education system that shepherds students from shortly after they're born through their college education.
He expressed frustration that America spends so much on prisons instead of funneling more money into education reform.
But he suggested that the business community must get involved in fixing the education system.
"I have become increasingly adamant that our business community has allowed this to happen to our country," he said. "And if they — and you — don’t step up, we’re going to destroy America."
Nonetheless, he placed a lot of blame for failing schools on the shoulders of educators.
"Who could run a business with failure as an accepted standard? You don’t have to make a profit, you didn’t have to serve your customers, you can keep your job. Who runs a business like that in America today? I don’t understand it," he said. "People think this is anti-union. This is not anti-anything. If we want kids to get an education, if we want the future of our work force, we cannot allow business as usual any more."
He added: "This is what we’ve got in America: We’ve got a system that’s the equivalent of having a fire department that has its town burning down. And the fire department comes out and starts to fight the fire and then, oh, it's 3 o’clock, that’s the end of the day."
Contact AnnArbor.com's Nathan Bomey at (734) 623-2587 or nathanbomey@annarbor.com. You can also follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's newsletters.
Comments
genetracy
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 9:22 p.m.
Let's just keep doing the liberal thing and babysit kids for 12 years and then hand them a diploma whether they can read or not.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 8:01 p.m.
What a simplistic world! There are "bad" teachers and there are "good" teachers. Fire the "bad" ones and reward the "good" ones for the outstanding test scores of their students. With this approach, we will never address our problems.
snapshot
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 4:09 a.m.
Quantifiable specificity macjont. Start talking or start walking. You are now hiding behind ambiquity.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:07 p.m.
As usual, however, the devil is in the details. Here: defining which teachers are "bad" enough to be fired and distinguishing that group from those who merely have deficiencies that can and should be corrected. Defining success and failure, the two words bandied about by so many, is quite complex. Our search for the simple solution ––– test scores ––– will lead us (and has been leading us) in the wrong direction.
snapshot
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 4:08 a.m.
Quantifiable specificity macjont. start talking or start walking.
TV
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 9:04 a.m.
Hilarious. What the right wing teacher bashers don't get is that the glorious infallible free-market hurts the most desperate districts before there are any teachers to blame. Go to the teacher job fair at EMU or any other university and look at the line of applicants in front of a wealthy, suburban district's recruiter and that of an urban school. Guess what, there's no one in line to teach in the inner city! Fire all the bad teachers in the ghetto and replace them with ...?
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 12:45 p.m.
TV - Several states have state wide contracts and can re-assign teachers between districts. They are employees of the state. There is one salary scale. In some cases "disadvantaged districts" give a bonus for teaching there. I know teachers who taught in the district I grew up in because they got their student loans forgiven - 3 to 5 years and they would have most of the loans paid. Because the cost of living was lower, they could live better on less money. The best were encouraged to stay (including the community ganging up to find them a spouse).
snapshot
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:49 a.m.
We need to define "bad" teachers. We need "teachers" to step up and quit hiding behind unions. Teachers are complaining but why arn't they coming up with suggestions for improvement besides "the more money needed" solution? Until I see teachers start talking about improving the educational system through serious changes, they all get a well deserved failing grade. Start talking or start walking.
snapshot
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 4:06 a.m.
macjont, I'm listening but I just here the same old rhetoric from union folks. Give me some quantifiable specificity. You're still holding to the more money routine. Quantifiable Specificity with concrete changes. I'm listening. start talking or start walking.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.
Teachers and their unions have advanced many ideas for improving education, but few are listening. Unfortunately, the changes that will make a real difference in areas where our education suffers most --- areas of poverty --- will require money. While money is not sufficient, Mr. Canada's experiment demonstrates that it is necessary –– much more of it than we are currently willing to provide.
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:39 a.m.
By the way, it should be noted that in order for Capitalism to thrive, somebody has to lose. Oh, and charter schools can pick and choose who attends them, a public school that has to comply with the Constitution can not. We all have equal rights, but we are not all equal.
snoopdog
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 1:52 a.m.
Spot on Geoffery, rock solid points. Now watch the screaming and crying begin ! Good Day
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:22 p.m.
The problem with Geoffery is that he does not tell you all. To that extent, he is anything but "spot on."
ViSHa
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 1:51 a.m.
I think there should be a way to weed out--not based on test scores but in some other way. Everyone knows in a school the teacher "you don't want to get". Or the one who, while the other teacher(s) in the same grade are doing various projects, are doing the bare minimum. Or the one who seems to always have a sick kid or bring their kid to class or needs a sub all the time, etc....These are the teachers that should be weeded out, not a good teacher who, by the luck of the draw, gets kids that should have been held back, or have no parental involvement, etc...
ViSHa
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 1:40 a.m.
from an earlier AA.com article this past week: There are 53 members of the administrators union, which is made up of principals, assistant principals and other building leaders in the Ann Arbor Public Schools
macjont
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 12:34 a.m.
VISHa, the "we" I was referring to is the greater public. Ultimately, that's where the $ must come from. The "administrator's union" (and I don't think there is one) probably has nothing to do with it.
ViSHa
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 9:56 p.m.
i don't know, ask the administrator's union.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:23 p.m.
Ah.... the problem, "some other way." There are other ways, and they are expensive to implement. Are we willing to fund them?
a2flow
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.
What is interesting is that the article doesn't mention that Canada's program uses about $16k per student, and this doesn't include the afterschool program, which would further inflate the costs of his educational program. No one is saying it in such a manner, but basically they realize that ineffective parents, there needs to be a nanny state. The school becomes responsible for everything: teaching the kids how to live life, eat, etc. The reality of education is that the home environment does matter. The home environment is believed to be between 60-86% of the influence on academic achievement. So how will we measure teachers across the board? Ann Arbor to Detroit? From the penthouse to the doghouse? With this said, sure, let's have standards. Each content area should have expectations, something that is indicative of what should be accomplished during the school year. Be it a test or a portfolio. Something that is real and good...none of this standardized testing that only enriches the testing companies. Administrators should have to administrate. Some do, some don't. They also shouldn't hide behind the union...they are not powerless. Be a leader and lead. Or get out of the way. Furthermore, there should be expectations for students/parents. When kids are chronically absent/misbehave, what are their consequences? The propaganda that all these kids and parents want to succeed if it wasn't for these lazy teachers, is complete b.s. I think I have covered everyone that needs to do something. If this is more of the diatribe of these lazy teachers...count me out. There are more good teachers than bad. Get rid of the lazy, ineffective, or incompetent. Create a fair system with due process that can apply to Ann Arbor or Detroit.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:24 p.m.
But Don Bee, AAPS must take all comers. Not so with Canada's program.
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:36 a.m.
A2flow - If you take the total budget for AAPS (all sources) AAPS spends just shy of $15,000 a student this year. Not much of a difference in resources between the two programs.
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:04 a.m.
Spot on, if we are going for the business analogy lets not forget putting money back into your business. I heard today tht OSU reinvested 31 million dollars in its football program in 2009, then next big ten school, Wisconsin, was at 19 Million that year. Wonder why they may have a better program? Its not free tattoos froma renegade booster/fanatic
ViSHa
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 1:50 a.m.
Good post.
a2phiggy
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 12:56 a.m.
Our neighbor is an area school district teacher, and I have come close to sending flowers thinking that he has been laid off because he is home so often. Turns out he just calls in sick. A lot. I feel sorry for the kids in his classes - there's no way a substitute teacher can maintain the momentum. There are amazing teachers out there - but we need to weed out the others.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:46 p.m.
Will we "weed out" all but the "amazing?"
skfina2
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 11:12 p.m.
As a teacher, I whole-heartedly agree that we need to get rid of those who do not belong in a classroom. But here's the rub: it's not like we're enticing high-quality candidates to take their place. Even with such perks as summers off, pensions, and free health care upon retirement, plus a salary that could max out around $80,000, our best and brightest are not rushing to become teachers, especially at the elementary level. Now our salaries are being cut, our pensions will be taxed, and the creativity is being sucked out of our jobs in the name of accountability, aka teaching to the test. Plus we are constantly demonized as being nothing more than overpaid, underworked baby-sitters. Does this make teaching as a career more appealing? Hardly. On the other hand, maybe weeding out all the bad teachers will lead to a teacher shortage, and the law of supply and demand will take over and raise teacher pay, and our best and brightest will go into teaching. Yeah, right. Not in this state!
ViSHa
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 1:12 a.m.
right, because only your side is the right side. got it. it is that kind of condescending arrogance that causes these divisions. trust me, i understand education having worked in the field out of state. full disclosure though, i am not in the education field in michigan nor am i collecting any type of financial benefits from the system. that is why i have an open mind about the status quo.
macjont
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 12:37 a.m.
Glad you know me, VISHa. If you understood the issues, you'd understand that the (modified) lyrics of the song are anything but silly. They tell us where we are headed. But then you have to understand the education industry and the competing industries to understand. If you'd take some time to do so, you too might contribute your enthusiasm to the right side of the issue.
ViSHa
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 9:55 p.m.
donbee often contributes positively to these conversations, not just darting in with cutesy quips and silly songs with the words changed.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:48 p.m.
DonBee, the experimenter. Every time I read your comments on a particular subject, I am left with the ardent wish that we could enlist your enthusiasm and passion on the right side of the issues. Perhaps if you would take the time to learn and understand the facts pertinent to the subject on which you so fervently expounds, and to think dispassionately about it, you would actually contribute something meaningtul to the discussion. This is an invitation, DonBee, so please take me up on it.
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:35 a.m.
But there are multiple applications for every opening in most districts in the state and more teachers graduating then there are teaching slots in the state. So maybe we may not have Einstein in front of the classroom (not that he would have been a great teacher), but we could try out a lot of people and find the ones who actually connect with students.
TC
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 10:19 p.m.
Let's be careful with this idea. The politicians are really going to demagog this. Beware. It's too simple of a solution. It is a fact that students from middle class and wealthy districts do better than those from poorer districts. This is a pretty consistent truth, look at the MEAP scores if you don't believe me. It's way to simple to blame the teacher when there are so clearly such important societal influences. It would be wrong to extrapolate that teachers working with poorer families are bad teachers. Likewise, that teachers in wealthy areas are good because they get better results. We need to remember that schools reflect their community. Strengthen the community and the school is strengthened. Let's try to avoid simple, knee jerk solutions.
Dirtgrain
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 10:13 p.m.
This country needs more firing. Fifty percent of all employees should be fired, regularly. Those lazy jerks!
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.
Yes, and replaced with equally or lazy or lazier jerks! :>)
northside
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 9:49 p.m.
Unfortunately people don't pay enough attention to what Canada has to say behind the tough 'fire bad teachers' talk, which he may have emphasized knowing that it would appeal to this wealthy, conservative crowd. His Harlem Children's Zone involves extensive social services. Canada recognizes that the obstacles to students succeeding are closely connected to economic inequality. For anyone interested in learning more about it: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Takes-Geoffrey-Canadas-America/dp/B003TO6G3E/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Takes-Geoffrey-Canadas-America/dp/B003TO6G3E/</a>
jrigglem
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 8:40 p.m.
Taylor Mali said it best: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU</a>
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 9:02 p.m.
I guess????????????
Dog Guy
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 8:20 p.m.
A family dairy farm sold off the lowest-producing third of the herd each year. After a dozen years of doing so, they had the best-producing herd in the county; their culled cows drew premium prices. Selection could improve the teaching breed as well, but the cull rate is near zero in the public monopoly schools. Had AAPS been culling even 5% annually, other districts would have headhunters haunting the Balas Building for our rejects. As it is, wake me when it's time to retire.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:27 p.m.
OMG, what insight! Comparing teachers with cows.
DennisP
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.
"Who could run a business with failure as an accepted standard? You don't have to make a profit, you didn't have to serve your customers, you can keep your job. Who runs a business like that in America today?" Sounds like Wall Street... Oh, but they get large bonuses too. Despite that, I agree with Mr. Canada. Accountability begins when protectionism ends. There are some commenters who note that parents don't provide teachers with kids "ready to learn". A teacher must understand that's the nature of the job. It may be a sad fact but I doubt that any teacher ever has had a classroom of kids who are all perfectly poised and ready to learn each and every day. I also doubt that even the best teachers are at their best to teach like all-stars every day. And the classroom is going to have kids from every socio-economic background with some who are destined--for whatever reason--to end up in prison and others who will become billionaires or presidents. By and large, it's the teacher's duty to become skilled in dealing with the kids that aren't prepared while enriching the kids who are. But Mr. Canada isn't talking about how hard it is to teach. He's talking about how there are some--maybe many--people who just can't do it at all regardless of where they teach or who they teach. They aren't really knowledgeable about the subjects they teach or good at presenting the information in a manner that others can grasp. This isn't a reflection on their worth as people, it's just that many people aren't good at the jobs they do. It happens everywhere in every job. The problem is when it becomes impossible to get rid of those people. Tenure, union contracts, unduly laborious due process hearings and reviews make it more expensive to remove ineffective and poor teachers than it is to buy them out, reassign them or keep them. It's no service to the ineffective teachers who may have a better career elsewhere and it's no service to the students or the s
Tex Treeder
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:56 p.m.
Fire bad teachers? I agree. It saves money and more importantly saves our kids from a lousy education. Another money saver: trim school admin. Do we really need so many principals and vice-principals? But let's pay to keep good teachers. They're worth their weight in gold.
macjont
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 12:39 a.m.
And those that are neither "bad" nor "good" --- what are they worth? And what do you have as replacements?
Cash
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:53 p.m.
Well, administrators have FIVE YEARS to do so now. If they do not do so, THEY should be fired. If a bad teacher isn't fired, it is due to a really bad adminstrator. They are paid to take that responsibility to monitor and review teachers before tenure takes affect. So, admins....do your job and this is already resolved.
Tex Treeder
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:57 p.m.
Exactly right. Get rid of unnecessary admin overhead, much is which is ineffective on a good day.
bluemax79
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:31 p.m.
hard to blame some teachers in bad area's of our state for underforming students. some of the kids that have NO parental support or help with their homework and just feel lost. if a teacher is in a school district that has a lot of these kids those teachers will be percieved as underforming and be let go. good luck finding people to take those jobs and try to help those kids out of their bad situations. I do agree if it is proven a teacher is bad they need to be removed and it is VERY frustrating that we give prisoners so much of our resouces instead of making them work on chain gangs and get something usefull out of them.
northside
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:20 p.m.
Nathan are you actually in Mackinac Island attending the conference? I'm asking because annarbor.com rarely sends reporters out of town for stories and Mackinac Island isn't exactly close. If you are attending were your travel costs covered by annarbor.com? Or by the conference?
Bob Needham
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 8 p.m.
AnnArbor.com always covers the travel and lodging expenses of its reporters on assignment, and is doing so in this case.
northside
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:36 p.m.
@ treetown - LOL. I can't remember that last time I saw an out-of-town byline on an annarbor.com article, so I find it interesting that a reporter made it all the way to Mackinac for the conference. I'm curious who covered the bill.
treetowncartel
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:33 p.m.
Snyder May have had some campaign money left over
CPS
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 6:26 p.m.
I agree with Mr. Canada, and his philosophy applies to ALL sectors--not just education. America was built on the hard work and effectiveness of its people. Individuals, families, and communities used to take pride in what they could accomplish. Now days, I would imagine that everyone has heard at least one person that they know brag about how little they do and how much they get paid. There are still some very special individuals--yes, some of them are indeed teachers--who take their job seriously, who care enough about their students to put 110% into their work, and who really make a difference. We all have a teacher in our past who made a difference. There are many who would love to prove themselves if offered a job. Thin out the ranks, keep those of value, and offer new opportunities to those who have it in them to truly make a difference.
glimmertwin
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:56 p.m.
Is a bad teacher one that takes the majority of Mondays and Fridays during the school year off? if so, I agree.
ViSHa
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 8:41 p.m.
no kidding. it's ridiculous how many subs our school has, especially mondays and fridays.
Alan Goldsmith
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
"He added: "This is what we've got in America: We've got a system that's the equivalent of having a fire department that has its town burning down. And the fire department comes out and starts to fight the fire and then, oh, it's 3 o'clock, that's the end of the day."" How did this guy know about the Mayor's new city budget and what the end result will be?
braggslaw
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:14 p.m.
Blaming the kids is never an effective education strategy.
Corey Lord
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
Who's blaming the kids???
treetowncartel
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.
Maybe the teachers should work on rotations through different schools and even different districts? It's pretty easy to get good results when the home life for those kids in your school and classroom is stable, and the parents most likely, not a guardian, value education and instill their own discipline at home with respect to study habits and behavior.
Alan Goldsmith
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:13 p.m.
"Who could run a business with failure as an accepted standard? You don't have to make a profit, you didn't have to serve your customers, you can keep your job. Who runs a business like that in America today?" Eh...SPARK?
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:30 p.m.
Apparently many people have run businesses that way. Just look at the failures.
treetowncartel
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 5:02 p.m.
That might be ok if we through in the variable of the child and their respective parents or guardians into the mix too of what creates a "Bad teacher". One example of many, go to the grocery store at 11:00 pm and tell me those kids you see out are ready to rise and shine at 7:00 am the next day for school.
macjont
Sat, Jun 4, 2011 : 12:43 a.m.
You know what, DonBee, Canada does not have to "toss out" 16% of the students because he never takes them in the first place AS THEY ARE PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Canada's system, though admirable, succeeds not because he fires bad teachers, but because supplemental funding allows him to alleviate most if not all of the conditions that are never addressed in the public schools. Why aren't these problems addressed? The solutions would cost "too much money," or at least more money than the public is willing to pay.
macjont
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 7:58 p.m.
Cory, do you really think the home and parenting are irrelevant?
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 4:42 p.m.
Yes, Northside - Your mind is made up, you don't need facts and there is no need to look at history. There is no need to make education work better and teachers are not responsible. I got your message loud and clear.
northside
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.
Don there's no need to go back and review your posts: you just engaged in the same smear tactic again, suggesting that someone who disagrees with you wants 16% of the population to be homeless. Bad teachers are responsible for students not learning enough. They're not responsible for students dropping out of high school. When that happens it's a sign that something is seriously wrong in the student's personal life - abusive home situation, drug abuse, etc. Students don't drop out of school because they have a lousy social studies teacher.
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 12:41 p.m.
Yes, Northside I can. I know teachers who can get into heads and understand why you were doing what you were doing and what you value. I had several of them. Growing up in a town where more than half the population was on food stamps and work was mostly seasonal and manual. They knew what motivated students. They used that information to keep students moving. More than 95 percent of students graduated. Teachers drove out to homes, they spent summer time meeting with parents and children, they drove to the hospital to visit and take homework. They did not get paid for it. Mike was probably very like you, he moved into the district and looked for every opportunity to disrupt the classes. Mr. W got into his head, and really got into it. Mike had issues with how he was treated at home, expectations, broken promises, etc. Within a year Mr. W and the other teachers had Mike on a track that had him graduate second in the class. In my case, I was bored in 4th grade, my teacher taught 4 of us poker, so long as our work was done, we could play quietly in the back of the room. The 4 of us were 1,2,3 and 4 on the tests at the end of the year. Good teachers can find ways. Proper evaluation can find bad teachers. But, bad teachers and ROADs (Retired on Active Duty) both would prefer to not be measured. The best teachers like being measured, that helps them excel. Remember - Schools are about students, and their learning, not employees and their checks. Until we get back to that focus, the schools are BROKEN.
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 4:04 a.m.
BTW, when I was in high school, my parents were they type that valued education, I didn't, I sabotaged my teachers day in and day out with my performance. School was not cool, and neither was doing well at it. It didn't matter what kind of cape the teacher was wearing. One more variable in the mix. Can you solve for x Mr. Bee?
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 4:01 a.m.
Teachers should rotate, be in a school one year where the parents are in the top tax bracket, and be in a school the next year where the majority of the parents are in the lowest tax bracket. Complacency and stagnation are the main issues here. Let everybody being judged have a chance to have all the variables applied.
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:57 a.m.
Where did I ever post it was unfair to measure teachers at all? Waiting...Or that we should throw 16% of our population out with the trash? Waiting...
DonBee
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3:31 a.m.
Northside - Go back and look at my history of posts, you will see I agree there are issues with parents. But, I am tired of seeing people post that it is unfair to measure teachers at all because it is all out of their control. We have 16 percent of the children in the state that do NOT GRADUATE. More than that get socially promoted and are functionally not ready for the workforce. Do you want to support 16 percent of the citizens of the state on welfare, or have them homeless? I know a lot about Mr. Canada's program, I was one of the first people here to post about it. I visited one of his facilities when I was working a job in NYC. Yes, there is a big social push, and there should be, but teachers are measured, encouraged and managed on a daily basis. Students, regardless of background are EXPECTED to perform, and teachers are EXPECTED to teach, again without regard for the student's background. Should be expect less?
treetowncartel
Fri, Jun 3, 2011 : 3 a.m.
Hey, thanks for putting words in my mouth. You should look into working for Hannity.
northside
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 10:11 p.m.
Don why do you go nuclear whenever someone makes the basic point that factors beyond a teacher's control influence how students do? No one is suggesting that "tossing 16 percent of children out with the trash is OK." Geoffrey Canada, by the way, would agree with the point treetown made. His 'fire bad teachers' tough talk' gets a lot of press. What doesn't get much ink is that his program involves extensive 'cradle to college' social services. Here's a link if you're interested in learning more about problems related to education rather than just teeing off on people: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Takes-Geoffrey-Canadas-America/dp/B003TO6G3E/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Takes-Geoffrey-Canadas-America/dp/B003TO6G3E/</a>
DonBee
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 9:48 p.m.
So, tossing 16 percent of children out with the trash is OK in your book? Yes, parents need to be partners in education, and yes we need to teach parents to be good parents, but the excuse of "it is the parent's fault", so you can't judge me on it just does not cut it. There are ways to measure the progress of a child in a single teacher's classroom from the day they enter to the day they leave. I am sorry, I have to agree with Mr. Canada, bad teachers need to go.
treetowncartel
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.
Its not an excuse, but a variable that has to be accounted for in assessing teacher performance. The fact that you are actually reading the news, and commenting on it, means you most likely had parents who helped meld you as a student and a learner by enabling you and setting a good example. You can turn your back on reality if you want, but there are kids out there, who through no fault of their own, are not as lucky to have the types of mentors in their life that you did.
liekkio
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.
"what are we paying teachers to do anyways" Often they are paid for plugging the holes. If at the start of the schoolyear a teacher gets a class full of kids who are not properly prepared for and not interested in learning, most of the time will be spent on trying to teach the basics and on maintaining discipline. Comparing public schools to business is not even funny. For starters, businesses get to select the raw materials and equipment, public schools are required to teach whoever enrolls.
Corey Lord
Thu, Jun 2, 2011 : 6:23 p.m.
We can't keep using that as an excuse to not hold teachers accountable for educating kids. If we keep using that as an excuse, what are we paying teachers to do anyways, babysit? If thats the case they get paid way too much. People are always saying that teachers are underpaid. Well if we keep the mindset that parents prevent accountable education, then the teachers are way, way overpaid.