CycloChemist

Wed, Feb 24, 2010 : 2:25 p.m.

As per usual, there seems to be a great deal of animosity between bicyclists and motorists expressed in these comments. Good to get these feelings out here, rather than purchasing "cyclist guns" and getting into acts of road rage! It's not surprising at all that emotions run high about bicyclists rights to the road because cyclists are so vulnerable and threatened, and motorists are generally more concerned about getting to a destination than enjoying the moment. And the scales have been tipped so strongly in favor of motorists for so long in southeast Michigan that it will take many years to remediate this trend. Many of us feel that the auto-centric culture of our country and SE MI in particular really needs to change. For reasons that most of us would readily agree to. Better air quality. Safer oportunities for healthy exercise through active modes of transportation (not just walking from the parking structure!). Take a look around this great nation of ours - the nicest places to visit all have given consideration to eliminating motorized transportation in selected zones, especially restricting cars. Pedestrian malls, perimeter parking structures (not like the DDA underground structure that will invite traffic into downtown streets), greenways, bicycle lanes, etc. If you like the new direction of our nation's urban culture, even for little ol' A2, why not get involved with some advocacy for pedestrian and bicyclists rights, infrastructure development, etc? The local advocacy group, the Washtenaw Bicycling and Walking Coalition (www.wbwc.org), is involved in many ways to improve biking and walking in Ann Arbor and surrounding communities. Rebalancing the mode-share for active transportation in our community will be good for everyone - yeah, even downtown businesses. But it will take time... and effort. We all have to work to make it happen.

ktalley

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 10:41 p.m.

Thanks, John Q. Ypsi also passed a controversial similar millage a few years ago to get its streets fixed. But of course no one would say that renters or visitors to AA are not entitled to use our streets because they didn't pay for them, would they? So let's just put that whole "bikes don't deserve to use the streets because they didn't pay for them" argument to rest, shall we?

stupid

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 12:41 p.m.

To get rid of no turn on red results in cars at a standstill. Traffic is not moving. When traffic is at a stand still it results in lower fuel economy and higher emissions, especially in the areas the cars are stopped. This is some of the reasoning for roundabouts. This would not help out our town in any way. WHY DONT WE JUST BUY MORE 900k signs for people to chain their bikes to?

Technojunkie

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 10:35 a.m.

Maybe make some of the narrower downtown streets car-free and keep the cars on Main, Fifth, Division, Huron, etc? It'd make downtown much more walkable. You'd probably have to put speed limits on the bikes to keep them from running over wayward pedestrians. This would have the side benefit of reducing wear and tear on those roads. I like this idea better than trying to put bike lanes on major arteries. Then again, traffic is already light enough on some of those narrower streets that going car-free might not make much of a difference.

John Q

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 10:01 a.m.

Act 51 dollars do NOT cover the entire cost of constructing or maintaining roads in Ann Arbor. That's why Ann Arbor had to pass a millage for roads. That means all property owners, whether they drive a car or ride a bike or walk pay towards that cost: http://www.a2gov.org/government/publicservices/project_management/Pages/StreetMillage.aspx

Thick Candy Shell

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 9:54 a.m.

@ktalley, The Michigan Transportation Funds are the result of the gas tax within Michigan. These funds come to road agencies for the maintenance of all public roads with in a jurisdiction. These funds commonly referred to as ACT 51 monies (Public ACT 51 of 1951) are what pay for snow removal, street sweeping, pavement markings, signs, signals, pot hole patching, gravel road graiding etc.

Ashley

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 9:45 a.m.

I think the biggest issue, at least for me, is that bikers that ride on the road, ride down the middle of the road, and swerve whatever way. I understand that they have the freedom to ride their bikes, but I mean if I get a ticket for swerving and not paying attention so should they. If you are in the middle of the road going 10 MPH down hill and stop in front of me suddenly, it's hard to stop an SUV on a moments notice, same with the people who walk out a foot in front of you. I think divers need to be more mindful, but in order to do that, I think bikers and pedestrians need to be as well, the drivers are trying to get somewhere too.

Basic Bob

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 6:17 a.m.

Sidewalk rage: Sure, let's give up right on red so the pedestrians can run across traffic. Recently, I turned right on red while traffic on my right had a green left turn arrow. I stopped and looked, but after I was through the crosswalk a runner smacked the back of my car with his hand. I'm sure you didn't have the right of way during the protected left turn. People running in the dark should get some sense.

PharmaBear

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 2:59 a.m.

I recently moved into Ann Arbor last year and enjoy my new home immensely. Trust me, for a city guy like me, this town is definitely a fresh breath of air, literally. One thing I can't stand though, is how arrogant some pedestrians, seem to be crossing the street as if they seem to own the road and have no regard whatsoever if seconds earlier a car has obviously already gone ahead to cross an intersection. I'm also talking about people who stop and look at you "expecting" you to stop before they cross. Not everyone does this, but I wouldn't be writing this unless I've encountered this kind of situation more than enough times. Okay, so the cat's out of the box, and maybe I'm the outsider in this view. But don't you think that if people just simply looked both sides of the road a bit more often, hold their breaths before crossing the street instead of peeling straight through assuming no one could possibly hit them, not only would we reduce road rage, but more importantly--reduce the risk of people being needlessly injured? I'm not saying that all these ideas for cameras and what not is bad. I think it'll help to some degree. But come on, do you really think the problem isn't just us drivers, but also the attitudes of some pedestrians who cross the road at their own discretion thinking no matter what, no one's going to dare hit them? Good luck trying that in other places. All I'm saying is that these "tree huggers" need to also see that if they want to see things improve, they can't just bring out ideas to impose on just us drivers--they've also got to understand that maybe they're also possibly part of the problem that's causing the need for all their demands as well. Bottom line, I think what we've got here is not just a safety problem, it's an attitude problem--and that goes for both sides, pedestrians and drivers alike.

sweet_life

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 1:23 a.m.

I am both a cyclist and a driver and I see a lot of problems with both sides here. Cyclists create a lot of ill-will and uncertainty for drivers when they use the streets but don't follow the rules of the road - and that includes stopping for stop signs and red lights. Drivers endanger cyclists when they don't give adequate room when passing or they make turns in front of cyclists. Both sides would be happier and safer if everyone followed the rules. Making exceptions for cyclists or excuses for drivers doesn't make anyone safer.

racerx

Tue, Feb 23, 2010 : 12:47 a.m.

Oh, here we go again! This is not mainland China, even they are getting off their bikes and buying cars at a great rate as their middle class grows. Look at how many commuters come into town. How can this place EVER get people out of their cars to accomodate those FEW, FEW bicylist. I do both. Typically leave the car in the driveway on the weekends and ride my bike. However, this isn't Portland, Ore., or Seattle, WA., whereas the weather and culture is going to get people out of their cars. There are to many bike lanes as it stands, all based on a city study where the respondents were only 4%! I think it's called the Non-Motorize Transit Plan or something to that effect. This from a city that is building a 600 car parking lot. So, again, how are these two opposites will ever attract I don't know!

Cartman's Conscious

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 10:28 p.m.

Get the bikers off the sidewalks - that would be a good start.

a2jean

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 7:22 p.m.

I've witnessed a lot of bad behavior by all parties mentioned, and I'm no role model, either -- as a walker, biker, or driver. As a pedestrian, my close calls include: 1) Packard and S Main -- drivers on Packard turning right onto S Main while I have the walk signal to cross S Main. At this point all traffic has the red. So don't cut in front of me with your rolling stops! Yikes! This happens a lot. 2) Crossing Main at any intersection between William and Ann -- drivers making a left turn "gun it" instead of yielding to oncoming traffic like they're supposed to. Pedestrians in the crosswalk are sitting ducks. 3) The State and Liberty signals are a mess. Sometimes it really is safer to walk against the signal. These days it seems like everybody is either angry or oblivious -- whether they're walking, biking, or driving. Please -- let's ALL be careful out there!

ktalley

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 7:18 p.m.

@Thick Candy Shell -- please provide some evidence to back up your claim that "The Gas Tax" pays for local roads and that the only reason [bikers] have a place is because of those of us who pay for fuel."

Thick Candy Shell

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 7:08 p.m.

And who decides these limits? You, Me, the biker decides on his own? When it is law, there is no "well, it is o.k. here, but not here today".

jbens

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 6:56 p.m.

I got a lame-o $140 ticket for biking uphill through a stop on E. University when absolutely no one was around. You can't do this and hope to make A2 more bike friendly. I wholeheartedly agree with Edward Vielmetti that for biking to be a viable form of transportation (and thus encourage more people to leave their cars at home), we need a law allowing stops to be taken as yield and reds as stop signs. This law would be both safe and sensible. It is safe because bikers have an unobstructed view in all directions, whereas drivers sight lines are blocked by side bars, windows, etc. Bikes in good order can also stop in much shorter distance than cars, and there are additional options for evasive maneuvers. By setting up reasonable expectations for bikers, many more would abide by it and drivers would know what to expect. In busy pedestrian or traffic areas, signs could hold bikes to auto laws just as we use no turn on red signs at busy intersections for drivers. The law would be sensible because it reduces bike commuting time without compromising safety. We should be able to ride through residential areas without coming to a full stop without worrying about the snarky cop who needs to fill his quota. These laws have been passed before, even in conservative meccas like Idaha -- what in the world are we waiting for?

Thick Candy Shell

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 6:35 p.m.

@nonyo, ah, that is where you are clearly wrong. It is a "privilege" to ride a bike in the Right-of-Way. The same laws govern you as do a car. Any one who says yield for stop and stop for red should have no problem with the same things drivers do that are "not quite legal". (moving to the shoulder before a right turn, crossing a double yellow before turning left, etc, etc, etc) And, no matter how many spoiled bikers want to deny it the only reason they have a place is because of those of us who pay for fuel. If you want more "safety zones", take up a collection and pay for extra pavement markings. At this point, the roads are falling apart, the bridges need work and the water mains are breaking every day. I think we need other things before "safety zones".

nonyo

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 6:17 p.m.

I'd like to add a couple of comments. First, driving is not a right, it's a privilege. Walking and riding a bike are rights, no license is required to do either, and no age limit, either. A six year old can ride a bike. Second, a reasonable bike law should be enacted. Stop as Yield and Red as Stop makes perfect sense. One more comment about the right turn on red. Many times a vehicle will turn right into a cyclist, even though the cyclist has the right of way. Some communities have taken to painting a 'safety zone' on the pavement at troublesome intersections. Right turn on red was first enacted during the gas crisis of the 1970's, I believe, unless my memory is failing me. It really doesn't take precedence over the safety of cyclists and pedestrians. Give cyclists plenty of room when passing, six feet would be nice, you'd give that to a semi-truck, why not a cyclist? If you've ever rolled through a stop sign without coming to a COMPLETE stop, don't complain about cyclists doing the same.

Thick Candy Shell

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 5:44 p.m.

@HST, No, foot traffic is not the priority. All traffic shares the route equally, now if only pedestrians and bikes would realize this half of the problems we have would not exist. If you believe foot traffic is the priority, start charging them to walk cause at last check the Gas Tax paid for every bit of the area. As for South U. I stop wait for the next vehicle and start slowly creaping forward. If the arrogant students can't deal with it too bad!

Lokalisierung

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 5:28 p.m.

"the streets in downtown Ann Arbor were built long before cars," i agree and I go out of my way to look for bikers and share the road and STOP at a crosswalk with or without a light or stop sign. I just think it's poor driving all around in this town. Heck, for driving, poor walking, poor biking etc.

dillymay101

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 4:31 p.m.

I think ideas to make things more bicycle friendly would get more support if more bicyclists followed the rules of the road. I'd like to suggest a new article: how to make the road safer for everyone. Sure, auto drivers have some things they could do, but in my experience 90% of bicyclists on the road don't follow traffic laws. How about a licensing system for bicyclists? If you're going to drive on the road, you should have to gain a license, just like an auto driver.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 4:18 p.m.

"@loka, umm, I believe the pedestrians crossing RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU have the right of way, pulled up so far in the intersection that you're covering the crosswalk...waiting for your chance to turn..." Well I don't park in the middle of the cross walk thank you very much so don't accuse me of such things. I find usually you don't need to nudge up and you can see clearly the traffic coming in your direction.

ummsw

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

I couldn't AGREE more stan and Sling Blade...Thank you!!!

John of Saline

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 4:10 p.m.

New York? Land of the warp-10 bike messenger that runs down anything in his way?

Nancy Shore

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 4:01 p.m.

Hey everyone, Thanks for your comments. The right on red idea is definitely controversial. Clearly the person who wrote the original blog post was very pro-bike which is going to give the post a certain slant. I think the issue the poster is speaking to is that sometimes when a cyclist is waiting at a red light to go straight a car will pull around of that cyclist to make a right turn. The challenge with this is that if the cyclist were a car the person would have to wait until the light changed to turn on red rather than go around the car. Having cars drive around cyclists instead of waiting for the light to change can make cyclists feel unsafe. Ann Arbor is trying to create an environment where people can get around by car, bike, walking, etc. This is just one idea of how that might happen. I agree that all of the onus should not be put on cars. Cyclists and pedestrians should be courteous, too. I very much agree that cyclists who are on the road need to follow the rules of the road just like cars. The larger issue is how to create an environment that is safe for bikes, cars and pedestrians. The list above gives some suggestions. If you have others, please provide them below.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 3:40 p.m.

Look to new York may be my personal fave on this list. Casue nothing says easy going laid back safe traveling like new York City. Just close your eyes and picture walking in the streets of Manhatten....ahhh, so relaxing and safe.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 3:38 p.m.

RE: Taking away Right on Red Let me think about this. I'm at a stop light and it's red. This means the traffic perpendicular to me has green lights. Which means bicyclists and pedestrains DO NOT have the right to be crossing the road, therefore I have the legal right of way. If you take that away from me, they still shouldn't be crossing as they have oncoming traffic. Sooooo what's the point? Not to mention Bikes should be in the streets and following the laws cars do.

Sling Blade

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 3:27 p.m.

A pedestrian and cycling utopia? It's called Mackinac Island.

stan

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 3:20 p.m.

Why should drivers' rights be infringed upon for the benefit of pedestrians and bikers? The suggestion to take away right on red is completely ridiculous as it is meant to ease traffic flow at stoplights. Streets were created for vehicular transportation. Further impeding the process is unnecessary and wrong.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Feb 22, 2010 : 3:14 p.m.

This is a sad sad list of things. Boy it be great to infringe on everyone's right to privacy so people can ride a bike around town? Is that a joke? Here's the issue with "reining in" those nasty drivers around town; pedestrians are just as bad. True not every driver knows when they should yield to a person crossing at a corner (which they should), but just as many times people are crossing heading towards a light telling them not to cross. If you want to put a cmaera on me and sent me a ticket for making a right on red fine, just make sure jay walkers get the same thing.