Silverstone

Tue, Apr 5, 2011 : 6:14 a.m.

And I know all of this because I am part of the positivity group

Silverstone

Tue, Apr 5, 2011 : 6:03 a.m.

I want to say something. There are 6 fifth graders that are making a HUGE difference that can change the world. It's called the Positivity group. The group talks every monday about life at home problems and many other things. They also talk about things like "how to make a "comeback" without insulting or being negative, how to deal with negative people in a positive way and many other things." I am unhappy about the bullying that is going on at Northside. But I am more unhappy with the negative things above about northside. Instead of bringing our the bad things that are happening with bullying, we should put great things. Like the positivity group, and many other ways indivituals are helping Northside become a better place without bullies. Though there are bad bullying things that have drove people away from Northside, there are MANY MANY more things that have made Northside a great place to go to school. So everyone, instead of focusing on the negatives of bullying, lets think of the positives that Northside has done to improve bullying.

CincoDeMayo

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.

I almost forgot - one last thing especially for @Amy Leseman - A word to the wise for those relying on the automated system for notification of their child's absence from a class - After not always receiving these messages for one of my wayward children, (and having password protection on my phone, etc, so that it was impossible for me to not have gotten the message), I spoke to someone at the school who informed me that the automated calls begin at a certain time in the afternoon and then will stop by a certain "reasonable" time in the evening (so like 8 or 9 PM). If there are enough absences that day, AND, your child's name in near the end of the alphabet, it is possible that you will not receive the message as the calls will stop being made before reaching the end of the list. This particular child's last name began with a letter near the end of the alphabet which worked well in his favor, until I made a friend in the office....

G

Fri, Dec 31, 2010 : 10:41 p.m.

Oh, yes, AAPS has bullying. What amazes me is how unaware of it are the people at the top of the socio-economic ladder. When my child was in the AAPS system, certain violent children were so resistent to correction by "approved" methods that the teachers simply directed their efforts elsewhere, i.e., they only had so much time and energy, so if a GOOD kid got out of line, THAT was who was reprimanded. Kids of any color or race at the top of the socio-economic ladder, or ones who have a great deal of charisma or athleticism had minimal contact with bullying and clamor about how "great" the Ann Arbor school district is. They also tend to believe their success in dealing with difficult situations was all in how they handled it. Talking with their parents later, it is evident these families have little understanding just how different and privileged their situation was. Loners, shy kids, kids who didn't talk with the approved vocabulary and just ignored being hit... they were constantly under seige. It's not that I don't care, the administration gave us no other choice but to struggle or leave. They made what should have been their problem our problem. We had the option and at great economic loss, we pulled out of the AAPS.

siciliano

Thu, Dec 30, 2010 : 4:13 p.m.

Shadow Wilson writes....."The schools are no place for bullies; remove them." Great idea! Lets build a 4th grade prison and put them there. (Technojunkie surmises that they might end up there anyway) Is there anyone out there who never said a mean word to anyone else in elementary school? We would have all served time. Some of us would be on half rations of juice boxes and goldfish. Ann Arbor treats principals like people of Detroit treat quarterbacks and goalies, we chew them up and spit them out.

JS

Thu, Dec 30, 2010 : 4 p.m.

Shadow, I suppose you are correct. As Gandhi once said, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind". I just wish there was a magical door to open for these children, to show them how truly wonderful it feels to show compassion, empathy, inclusion, and goodwill towards their fellow human beings.

shadow wilson

Thu, Dec 30, 2010 : 1:05 p.m.

Joe, I am not who you think I might be. As for your idea you can be fairly certain that bullies have been bullied somewhere along the way.So turning the tables will accomplish nothing. Quite simply the behavior must be stopped immediately.If the student will not stop it remove them.

JS

Wed, Dec 29, 2010 : 7:28 p.m.

@Shadow I agree for the most part, but I partially disagree, in that I think until a certain age, say the mid-teen years, parents are directly and almost totally responsible for their child's behavior. When the child does wrong, it is solely the parent's responsibility to correct the behavior, enforce consequences, and show this child that what they are doing may be a lot more cruel, hurtful, and wrong than the kid thinks it is. This is a complicated issue, because even though these kids are bullies, they got that way somehow and at a young age children are very impressionable, be it from seeing their parents belittling each other, the horrible crap on TV, or the fact that their peers encourage it because it makes them "cool" in some convoluted way. It took me a long time to realize this, but for the most part the bullies are the losers with low self esteem issues, not the kids they bully. Here's an interesting, yet completely politically incorrect idea: What if we could find a way to temporarily turn the tables on the children identified as bullies? Maybe have a week, or better yet a month in school where all the non-bully kids get to openly tease, ostracize, embarrass, belittle, and humiliate the kids identified as bullies. I think some repeated exposure to the hurtful things that they do might help them to see the reality of the pain that they cause others. (It'll never happen of course, but I bet it would work :) Maybe send them to Roberto Clemente for a month or so, they certainly wouldn't be the bullies there;) P.s. Is this Shadow, Nicole's sister??

emani

Wed, Dec 29, 2010 : 5:08 p.m.

Bullying does happen at every school. My child attended Northside under Kevin Karr and was bullied. We moved to a private school shortly after. I don't think this problem is specific to this principal. We are a family of color, my child experienced bullying by a white child. This can happen to anyone regardless of race. I don't think Kevin Karr ignored our concern, I dont assume that he would have handled it differently if we were white. He did try to resolve the issue, but it takes time. I wasnt willing to wait. At the same time I don think its fair for those who are suggesting this principal has favorites i.e. non-white children. Dont be so quick to play the race card.

bibbitty

Wed, Dec 29, 2010 : 1:57 p.m.

I think it's a great idea to seek input from all involved (teachers, students, parents) and make decisions accordingly, including judging the effectiveness of leadership. Those families who move their children would then be able to provide important info, as well as those who stay. Improving the flow of communication is crucial. The Community High tactic of sending emails that highlight school climate issues would be great at all K-12 levels. Anti-bullying strategies that have been shown to be effective are also crucial, instead of random, whimsical presentations, like Martial Arts given by private business people. As an AAPS parent I feel very frustrated about school and district too-little, too-late, too-random responses. I've found no district-sponsored platform for collecting input in a systematic way. This news source provides a forum for input, which I think is why this extremely important topic of bullying attracts so many comments.

shadow wilson

Wed, Dec 29, 2010 : 1:51 p.m.

Is this really as complicated as it is being made out to be here? How is a parent responsible for a child's behavior? I realize that a fourth grader is very young.But they do know right from wrong.Stop complicating this.The solution(will never be done) is simple.Remove the bully from the school.If the parents of bullies think their kid needs psychological help they may seek that out.The schools are no place for bullies; remove them

JS

Wed, Dec 29, 2010 : 12:24 p.m.

@say it plain... Correctimundo! Also, I think that the comments assuming bullies come from homes with young parents/ low socioeconomic status/ and all that is for the most part complete BS. Speaking from experience, some of the worst bullies I went to school with were from wealthy families. Maybe it relates to that sense of entitlement that goes along with being raised to expect to get everything you want, getting driven to school in a new Mercedes while others have to deal with a '95 corolla station wagon. I'm not saying the parents didn't earn it, but the kids sure as hell didn't and the sense of entitlement associated with that must easily relate mentally to the "I'm better than you" attitude. *(because our individualist and power-obsessed and self-aggrandizement-focused orientations do little to promote kindness and acceptance.) So true! the adult version is an exclusive club. Say for example Barton Hills Country Club. Very exclusive. The only difference between BHCC and the cool cliques in school is that most well adjusted adults don't give two shits about being excluded from the club, whereas it can become an obsession for many children. What are you teaching your children by choosing to be a member of such a private, highfalutin, exclusive club? You're teaching them that they actually ARE better than the other kids, and that separatist attitude is not going to help whatsoever with the compassion, acceptance, and love that is so desperately needed in our schools.

say it plain

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 11:22 p.m.

I really appreciated @Joe Sloan's comments, and think that *fostering empathy* and *concern for the well-being of everyone* is exactly what is at issue here. Of course there are problems with lack of empathy at many if not all schools, because our individualist and power-obsessed and self-aggrandizement-focused orientations do little to promote kindness and acceptance. And I also agree that while a principal cannot be held solely 'responsible' for even schoolwide bullying, she can greatly contribute to a climate that succeeds or fails at fostering empathy. If a principal makes everyone feel as though they are heard, and as though they are accepted, and as though they are valued, she's fostering empathy. If a principal makes people feel dismissed, or left out, or she isn't available, then she's not. If a principal gets to know the kids who are bullying, helps them understand how deeply unacceptable their behavior is, and helps the bullied kids know how she feels their pain and will do all she can to make sure they don't have to feel unsafe anymore, then she's doing what she can to create a better climate. If she merely rolls her eyes and utters some pre-packaged words about buckets and reads the suspension rules, then she's not really helping and indeed the empathy vacuum might continue sucking new victims in. I have no contact with the situation at Northside, but I surely can understand how people might become frustrated with a principal who doesn't have the skill set required for the job. And I can surely understand how people would be outraged that AAPS needs to keep such administrators on the payrolls because of their contracts.

ViSHa

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 10:59 p.m.

a2citizen: i guess i see parenting skills and valuing education not necessarily the same. i think we've all seen families that value education but their kids are obnoxious or spoiled rotten. and i'm sure there are good kids who are self-motivated to do well even if their parents aren't prodding them. and from my experience (again, anecdotal) those who have uprooted their family to come to the University of Michigan, tend to place a high value on education. hope this makes sense :)

a2citizen

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 12:43 p.m.

Lisa/ViSHa: Lisa, now you are talking about professional parents nearing 40. Ill go back and forth with you two all day if you keep your responses in context to my original post. For your convenience, technojunkie had stated: "Unfortunately I think that if you removed the children of UofM students who are temporarily attending you'd see percentile rankings closer to Ypsilanti schools than neighboring AAPS districts". Technojunkie had also stated: Given the concentration of children of UofM students goosing the average My response was that getting accepted at the UofM might be indication of intelligence, but it did not have anything to do with parenting skills. To that Ill add: attending the UoM (undergrad, grad, post grad,) has nothing to do with parenting skills, or raising the average of standardized test scores for their grade school children.

JS

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 12:32 p.m.

As someone who was "bullied" considerably throughout middle and high school I read this article and most responses very intently. At such a young age, the offending children are not aware of the psychological impact that bullying can have on the recipient. I am an adult now, and my self esteem has recovered tremendously but to this day, there are people from my past that I have strong animosity towards, and would definitely take a swing at them if my maturity didn't restrict it. I didn't see much mention of the punishment inflicted upon the offending children. What do you do? How do you correct this issue? I for one think that maybe a good idea would be to find a few well made, highly emotional documentaries that focus on teen suicide related to children being ostracized and constantly bullied during their childhood years. Put the bullies in a supervised room and have them watch first hand the extremely negative effects of what bullying can do to a child. Maybe have speakers come in and explain to these seemingly heartless kids, who in my opinion 9 times out of 10 have parents who don't give a crap about their kids, what happens psychologically and emotionally to the children who must deal with the insults, derogatory statements, and continual public humiliation that they are subjected to. I know there isn't a quick fix, if there is one at all, but there must be a way to open up the hearts of these children, and there must be a way to foster a better understanding of compassion in such young lives. As depressing as this issue is, all I can think about is how to solve this problem. and no I don't think that the principal is to blame, it's a principal and I for one know that at that age I didn't give two shits about what the principal said. The solution to bullying is to find a way to make these children see the reality of the emotional hell that they are putting other children through. Regardless, something needs to be done on a grand scale, this doesn't just happen at one school, it happens at every school.

ViSHa

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 11:04 a.m.

Good post Lisa. a2citizen, an example of what i meant is that when I take my daughter to an academic center on plymouth road, I would estimate that 90% of the people in the waiting room are Asian or Indian and they are there because they feel AAPS doesn't provide enough of an academic challenge in elementary school. When talking to parents in the waiting room, the few that are there for tutoring vs. advancement are there because they feel Everyday Math doesn't provide enough of a foundation and there child is falling behind. I know this isn't scientific evidence and only anecdotal. About the story, so now what? Will AAPS be proactive in dealing with these problems or hope it fades away from the headlines like another school? And as others have said---there is another big story hear aa.com, start FOIA'ing......

LAEL

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 10:49 a.m.

@a2citizen Average age is meaningless in this context. There could be enough absolute number of graduate school, post-docs (which will be older on average), and medical residents (i.e. MDs who are post-medical school) who are well old enough to have grade school aged kids without starting their families when they were 16.

Lisa

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 8:43 a.m.

a2citizen, The average grad student is not a parent. So the ages for the average grad or professional student are not likely to reflect upon the age of the parents of these kids. For example, I know one family of professionals who came to the U.S. for a year whose children attended Northside. Both parents were nearing 40 and were professionals. One of the parents was doing a post-doc and the other was on a leave of absence. This is not out of the norm for a U of M student who is also a parent in AAPS. As for education and parenting, there are three things which strongly correlate with strong student performance: the quality of the school, the age of the mother when she gave birth to her first child (older is better) and the education of the mother. The more education the mother has the more likely her children will perform well in school. And yes, you are correct that young parents are (on average) not as good at parenting as older parents. However, I would not look to student housing as the source of that. Instead, please consider that Northside gets a larger percentage of its students from publicly funded housing than one would expect in Ann Arbor.

Dawn Nelson

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 8:03 a.m.

and for the record, my 2nd grade child does not feel safe at Northside, and these past two months I have come to realize that attending Northside has involved devising multiple levels of survival strategy, and daily learning is now in the back seat.

Dawn Nelson

Tue, Dec 28, 2010 : 7:06 a.m.

As a Northside parent and someone who has organized town hall meetings, the town hall meeting recently held at this school was sparsely attended, in my opinion, because only slight advance notice was given, and it catered to families who can arrange and/or pay for child care to be able to attend the meeting at all. Rather ironic for a school with so many families who face intensified economic struggle. I was extremely offended by the lack of accommodation to be able to participate in this community process, was not able to attend, and feel alienated by the entire process of events. What my family has experienced this year at Northside, as well as in the past several years with the school district response for other serious issues of grave consequence, is enough for me to question whether its time to leave the Ann Arbor schools.

Wendy

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 11:45 p.m.

THERE IS A BULLYING PROBLEM IN EVERY SCHOOL. I have worked in an elem school for 3 years. Teachers and all the staff should have workshops on what bullying is and how to stop it. Too many adults think that "words" are not serious enuf to warrant discipline. I know this for a fact. Words are the first step in bullying. Then comes the more severe and often violent aspects. I include lunch moms in this category. If the kids trust you they are more likely to tell you what is going on. But when they believe what they are telling you is not going to be handled, then they give up.

a2citizen

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 10:05 p.m.

ViSHa, no I am not taking into account grad students from other countries who place a higher value on education. I would not know where to get that statistic. However, in regards to grad students and those working on PhDs,... I think they value education just as much as ANY student from ANY other country or I don't think they would be seeking an advanced degree. I don't understand how an advanced education translates into parenting skills. I have an advanced degree and a child. Please read my original post. Regards

ViSHa

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:28 p.m.

a2cititzen, are you also taking into account the grad students from other countries who place a higher value on education? urban sombrero, as usual i agree with your entire post :) kelli bollock, thank you for your bravery in shining a light on some of the problems with AAPS, i'm sure it was an uphill battle, but it is good to know you are doing well at King. AAPS: you cannot keep ignoring these problems, including the ones at Dicken.

bibbitty

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:24 p.m.

I wonder how can the district take more advantage of all of its human capital (teachers, students, parents - everyone involved) to institute consistent and established anti-bullying strategies. For example, I agree that parents who have their children moved or leave the district should be asked for input about why they made their decision, along with those who stay. All families' views are important. So why is there no mechanism for the district to tap into the wisdom of their experiences and make leadership decisions accordingly? Random and whimsical programs should not be part of a reliable strategy. In all the reading I have done on research on bullying, martial arts was not described anywhere as a proven strategy. When people express concern, then there is a problem that needs creative attention devoted to it. The topic of bullying brings out huge response from people precisely because it is such a big and painful problem. See http://www.boston.com/community/moms/articles/2010/11/28/a_world_of_misery_left_by_bullying/ I have not found any district-generated digital forum that gathers public comments. This news source does provide this forum and that's why people are using it.

a2citizen

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:11 p.m.

Lisa, Ok, so they have degrees and are educated. The average age of a Michigan Law School student, Class of 2010, is 24.1. The average age of a Michigan medical students is 25.9 Average ages of medical students entering UC Berkley is 24 (to show the Michigan averages the same as national). But doing a little math: A third grader is about 8 years old, minimum. That means the 24 year old grad student was a parent at 16. Of course, there is no telling how young the fifth graders parents were when the child was born. So the more research I do on this the more I am becoming convinced that it is the result of young parents. http://www.mommd.com/fammi.shtml http://www.top-law-schools.com/michigan-law-school.html http://www.jyi.org/SCC/Article.php?articleNum=107

Roadman

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 8:33 p.m.

@microtini: What about bullies who grow up to be successful but who continue their bullying ways? Can being a bully be a positive trait in the adult world? We have heard about those who advocate anti-bullying legislation. Do bullies have their own pro-bully lobbyists? Who advocates against such proposed legislation. Maybe the ACLU considers bullying a First Amendment right and shall seek to invalidate such laws as unconstitutional.They will have to recruit bullies as class action representatives/plaintiffs. It seems that the public is unfairly picking on the bully community and is therefore creating bad role models for them. We should leave bullies alone.

microtini

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 7:26 p.m.

What would we find if we tracked bullies through to adulthood? Would we find that the majority become successful people who cease their bullying behaviors? Or, would we discover that these children are more likely to continue interfering with their classmates' ability to learn and that they become long-term underachievers and eventually drop out of school? I believe the data would support early and permanent removal of bullies from schools. And because teachers would not be wasting time dealing with discipline problems, removing these disruptors from the classroom would grant remaining students the time they need for higher-order thinking. Higher-order thinking requires student interaction through group work, individual reflection, and discussion, all areas that suffer when bullies are at work in the classroom. (Perhaps we'd see less misuse of the apostrophe and misspellings of "principal" by high school graduates.) Maybe it's time to reexamine the concept of compulsory education.

Urban Sombrero

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 7:25 p.m.

I agree with the others that say that the parents are ultimately responsible for how their children act. BUT...sometimes parents are apathetic. Or lazy. Or, just plain don't care. It's awful, and it's horrible, but unfortunately, it's also a fact of life. That's where school administrators and teachers come in. No, they shouldn't have to raise someone else's kid. But, they're responsible for the safety and security of all kids under their watch. If one student is bullying another, regardless of what's going on at home, it's their duty to make sure it's stopped. It's their job to make sure that all kids in their charge are able to get a good education without being afraid of being attacked, or bullied. If the principals refuse to step in when a child is being bullied, or if they only sweep it under the rug, than that is a massive failure on their part. They're not doing their jobs. They need to make sure that all students are protected and safe and are in an atmosphere where they're able to learn. Anything else is unacceptable. And, it's just as unacceptable of the AAPS to shuffle them around to another school, instead of confronting the problem head on. An ineffective leader is an ineffective leader, no matter which school they're stashed at.

Kelli Bullock

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 7:06 p.m.

@Ellen. I'm saying that a great many of the ones that haven't had an issue are of color "or" are favored by her. I would like to state for the record that I'm not prejudice or trying to sway anyone in that direction as we are a multiracial family ourselves. So.."of color" "OR" are favored covers whoever fits that description. Black, white, hispanic, Indian, student, non student, etc. Who knows what drives Mrs. Harrold. I don't know. I wish I did. We as a family loved Northside and "all" of our family went to the extremes to show "Northside Pride" and the rest of the hoopla. EVERYDAY. Always. Even when the chips were really down.. or should I say before all of this came to a halt. My partner and I rearranged our schedules to be even more proactive parents. And..contrary to some of the above comments.. We aren't "whiny parents or bullying parents".. we are caring parents who care about our child, other children and our community as a whole. I do believe it starts at home. Absolutely. However, we.. as parents have to bring our children to school. At that point, the administration takes over.. yes or no? So.. as a "proactive" (since this is the "word" that Northside is using to project a "caring" parent)parent.. I became more visible at school as well as all functions... and even an officer of the PTO there. How much more can we as parents get involved to ensure a safe environment for our children? The bullying isn't new here. It has been going on for a while and yes.. it goes on in other schools. However I don't think it is just bullying and, all the programs to get reins on this situation in the world won't do any good if the administrator doesn't enforce it.. or shows some consistency. This so called "twister color-coded" program sounds great. So did all of the other programs they have put in place.. or so called put in place. Where is the support for the so-called bullies too? Why are they doing these things? What kind of social climate is Northside projecting that our childrens' behavior is resulting in bullying.. or being bullied? I witnessed too much to have faith in the administration decisions with regards to Northside's principal. However, the staff...... Rick Dekeon.. mentor, educator, friend to everyone, Jan Smith.. excellent teacher. Sue Ulrey.. excellent teacher. My child was lucky.. as he/she received the best possible teachers. Jennifer Wade.. excellent. Amy Warner.. superb! Both Fifth Grade Teachers.. best in the district!! Jeri Schneider.. superb media specialist!There are really great teachers at Northside. Their resource center is incredible. For all of these folks, I thank you. We thank you as a family. This has absolutely nothing to do with the principal. They were great educators long before and will be long after the current principal. I make another statement which I would like to address. My child has made more progress in 1 months at King compared to an entire year at Northside. The decision to move my child was horrific. Are we doing the right thing? What we found was that our child, after being taken out of the hostile learning (if you want to call it that) environment, and put into a more positive social AND learning climate was able to succeed and improve in ALL facets of learning.. socially and intellectually.. and much more rapidly than at Northside. Why? Not just because of bullying. Because of the climate itself. The administrator at King Elementary School, Kevin Karr is just amazing. My child's teachers at King, Linda Hagen and Jennifer Barnes... absolutely amazing...! Take a walk down those halls. The day we went to visit.. my child and I were walking back to the car.. My child said.. "They are happy here mom. They are having fun LEARNING!!" Bingo... I wish the best for Northside. More than anyone who reads this will know. I just don't see it happening with the current administrator.

Lisa

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 6:55 p.m.

a2citizen, Most of the UofM parents whose children attend Northside are graduate and professional students, not undergrads. They are working on PhDs or postdocs or are in medical school.

a2citizen

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 6:47 p.m.

technojunkie: "Unfortunately I think that if you removed the children of UofM students who are temporarily attending you'd see percentile rankings closer to Ypsilanti schools than neighboring AAPS districts". Techno, I'm not sure why you think college students raising kids would increase the percentile rankings. Getting accepted at the UofM may indicate intelligence, but it really doesn't have anything to do with parenting skills. Actually, I'm coming to a different conclusion. Young students, inexperienced at life, raising kids. Maybe the reason there are so many problems at Northline is because of the inexperience of the UofM students at parenting. Just a thought.

Ellen

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 3:03 p.m.

@ Kelli Bullock who said "Some of these parents that haven't experienced problems are those of color and are those that either Monica Harrold favors or simply are the luckier ones." Are you trying to say that the principal treats families based on color? That aministration is allowing your children to be bullied because they are white?

Technojunkie

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 2:09 p.m.

@Patricia Lesko: Thank you for the clarification. I thought you meant that Northside was in the top 25 schools rather than in the top 25 percent. Unfortunately I think that if you removed the children of UofM students who are temporarily attending you'd see percentile rankings closer to Ypsilanti schools than neighboring AAPS districts. It doesn't take much to spike percentile rankings. As for how to deal with troublemakers, perhaps detention after school? A strong principal is needed, not someone who wants to be buddies with everyone, and when the principal is lacking... well, here we are. I hope that Northside won't get as bad as it did under Mr. Mial but history seems to be repeating itself.

Patricia Lesko

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 1:42 p.m.

@Josper: If you're a Northside parent, come out of the closet. A huge part of this piece is based on gossip and rumors circulated by people who were really angry that Kevin Karr was transferred. I liked him, and I was sad to see him go. Monica Harrold and I don't always see eye-to-eye. However, to have this discussion we have to be adult enough to do it honestly. As Glynda points out, there were meetings about this at school to which only a handful of the 500 parents showed up. Those parents whom you refer to were not working in the best interest of their children. If they had, they would have scheduled a private meeting with Monica Harrold, like I did. They would have sat down with her, asked her about the concerns forwarded to me as a group email by the then PTO president, and listened to her answers. Instead, they chose to try to bully and humiliate her in public (and in private, I would imagine). Based on that meeting, reading the materials FOIAed, as well as the abysmal behavior of those same parents at the group meeting where George Fornero and Ms. Dickenson-Kelly were treated to jeers, I decided to judge Mrs. Harrold on (gasp) her work at Northside and the academic progress of my kids. She's earned a B in my book, and I'm not an easy grader. A bunch of parents wanted to dictate whom the principal would be at the local public school. Several are still angry and smarting that they didn't get their way. So, they spread rumors about the "atmosphere" of the school. On the window of the AnnArbor.com office there are marketing taglines they use to describe the kind of news coverage they provide to our community. One of the taglines is "Who's At Whose Throat?" According to the "reporting" in this piece, our school children are at each other's throats. Happy reading.

Patricia Lesko

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 1:16 p.m.

@TechnoJ: If you download and sort the list by percentile, you'll see that King, Clague, Logan and Northside are all within the top 25. There are also other lists to download from the Michigan DoE with the same information presented in a different format. Just to be clear, this is not to say that MEAP score measurement is the final word on student achievement by any means, but looking at the percentile scores on the list of bottom 100 schools in the state is pretty sobering.

J. A. Pieper

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 1:15 p.m.

I have taught in AAPS for many years, and the quality of building level administrators (we'll skip the others for this comment) has declined over the years. AAPS does a national search for administrators (district personnel insist they are required to do this) and the people brought in are not necessarily the best match for AAPS. Other administrators are hired from within, some are good, others are not. Everyone has their own opinion about who is good, or not, for different reasons. AAPS has a history of having administrators work out of Balas, I remember one who was counting furniture around the district, and getting paid his regular administrative salary. Our tax dollars at work! I commend AnnArbor.com for highlighting this issue, it is a concern among many teachers, students, and parents in the district, and it probably could have been written about other schools also. Many comments are about moving incompetent principals around to different schools, but AAPS also leaves some at their school for many, many years, really damaging that school. Yes, AAPS has a bullying policy (hey people, it's required by the state), but having it does not solve the problem. Yes, teachers can be fired! But it takes a competent administrator to evaluate, document, offer opportunities for professional growth, evaluate some more, document some more. It is a tremendous amount of work, and a very difficult task. Most administrators just do not want to go through the work!

newsboy

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 12:10 p.m.

Sounds like the Israelis and Palestinians, with the U.S. as the principal. Why do we expect our children to believe in such hypocrisy? They will grow up some day and with great disappoint, to learn the truths so cleverly disguised from them by adults they once respected. There is no Santa Claus and nothing is fare, save for he with the bigger sword!

magnumpi

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 11:25 a.m.

Thank you for your third paragraph AMOC. The same thing has been happening at another Ann Arbor school except we call it addressing "equity issues". The bullying issue has many layers to it and once a school leader (principal) loses credibility, it will only be a downward spiral, despite what a few PTO cheerleaders might have you believe. These touchy-feely approaches are just not working. Does a kid who bullies/punches/pulls someone's pants down really care if their bucket is filled?

sh1

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.

When someone posts a blatant lie such as "You can't fire teachers folks. They are protected by an iron clad union agreement that makes it way more expensive to get rid of them than moving them around," can't the moderator reject it? We have gone over and over this. Teachers are fired when their administrator follows the protocol. Statements like these only serve to misinform.

Technojunkie

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 11:07 a.m.

@Patricia Lesko: looking at the Individual School Lookup spreadsheet from your link I don't see how Northside could be in the top 25 elementary schools. Its ranking is high by the state average, overall percentile rank of 86.0, but low for Ann Arbor and much lower than King's 99.6 and Thurston's 95.9. Given the concentration of children of UofM students goosing the average that 86.0 ranking is poor.

AMOC

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 11:06 a.m.

I will try again, more briefly, since annarbor.com claims my carefully factual and full-of-context comment about my experience as a Northside parent was off-topic and over-length. When my kids last attended school there, there was a serious and growing problem with bullying at Northside. Bullying problems worsened significantly, in my experience, about halfway through Mrs. Harrold's first year there (2005-06 school year) and got progressively worse during the three more years my kids remained at Northside. Mrs Harrold's arrival signaled a 180 degree switch in the attitude school staff displayed towards some/many parent volunteers, and a marked reduction in outreach to the entire Northside community in favor of outreach targeted to some of the schools' low income families and families of color. Other parents and teachers who have commented here may have had a different experience, but my perception was that Mrs. Harrold played favorites to a very marked degree among staff, parents, and students. I am also familiar with the program at Quest Martial Arts Academy, because my kids were students there since the year before they left Northside. Quest emphasizes self-control and self-respect in their bully-proofing teaching, not focusing on "cool moves" or being the strongest fighter physically. I would say their presence in classrooms at Northside is a positive effort to deal with a school emotional climate that was and is outside the competence of the school administration to correct. I wonder who invited them in? Quest's presentation is free for the first visit to a class or school assembly, but follow-up visits from Quest teachers may cost Northside or their PTO some money. My last comment is to heartily agree with the observation that AAPS seems to have some less-than-competent principals that they move from school to school, or into central administration every few years when the outcry from their current community gets strong enough.

ViSHa

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:44 a.m.

I agree with Momma G---the principal absolutely sets the tone of the school and when they show they are unable to lead the school properly but are still kept on, everyone suffers. Every decision they make is viewed with suspicion. When teachers and families are leaving, i don't understand why AAPS doesn't take these situations more seriously. Hopefully the new superintendent will have more of a backbone to handle these climate issues or whatever the next politically correct name will be. I am curious about the post by Ms. Lesko, i was unaware that parents could FOIA a school employees reviews and other documents---is this true? And I say good for Kyle for bringing these kinds of stories to the forefront, this musical chairs of principals who cannot lead properly needs to stop.

skigrl50

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:20 a.m.

Don't you think it's time AAPS administration deals with incompetence rather than continually moving the problems around or putting the problem employees on administrative leave for years at a time? Why is it so often that the schools with lower families with lower financial means tend to get the principals that are incompetent? Does AAPS administration think that those parents won't complain as much? Do they think that because those parents have to work and can't volunteer as much in the schools that they won't notice or won't care?

Mike

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:16 a.m.

You can't fire teachers folks. They are protected by an iron clad union agreement that makes it way more expensive to get rid of them than moving them around. Look at Michael Madison as another example of a controversial administrator that has been moved around a number of times. Deal with it. Too many parents sit back and allow this to happen and then complain about the results. Those that can afford to send their kids to private schools do so while the rest of us pay more than private school costs and get way less than we pay for. That acronym "PRIDE" is what you get to solve problems instead of removing the disruptive kids form the school. That's the beauty of private schools; your kids don't have to put up with bullies because they kick them out of the school. We need a boot camp style of school for the kids who have no family support (i.e. parents on drugs, or no parents at all). Why do you think the Detroit public schools are such a mess? So many years of allowing kids who don't belong in the schools due to behavioral issues to stay there instead of removing them. Home schooling is another option but it takes committed parents and most just don't have the time so we continue with the social experiment called public education. How's it working for you folks?

Momma G

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 9:10 a.m.

I have to agree with MsClean. AAPS doesn't deal with incompetent administrators, they just keep moving them around. When was the last time you read that a principal had been let go because of their incompetence? The climate in a school building really does come from the principal and treatment of staff, students and parents. I know of one situation where a "consultant" (another waste of taxpayers money was brought in for a survey and parents were pretty much handpicked by the principal, then the staff was blamed for the "climate" which was so not the case. Finally that principal left this year (wonder what deal was made in that decision), and replaced by a competent, respected principal who has turned the atmosphere around 160 degrees. Maybe higher ups in the district should be called on the carpet to "evaluate" these principals better and not move them to Balas into "created" jobs just to keep paying them their huge salaries.

josber

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 8:26 a.m.

@ Pat Lesko You call it bullying by the parents when they tried to stop this current principal from coming. Then you note that parents have left in fury and frustration at how things have been handled at the school, but you're okay with her. Good for you, but how about all those other people, and their children? That was likely their home school,and leaving was difficult. Those moms were trying to prevent bad scenes from happening, and you go after them for trying to do so. And it sounds like bad scenes and feelings are happening. So what if it is culturally diverse? No excuses for poor performance.People are people, treat them with respect and you'll get good results.

momgoblue

Mon, Dec 27, 2010 : 12:08 a.m.

@skfina2 -- Shelley Bruder works magic? She worked so much magic with my child that we had to transfer (more like, fled) out of her school. My daughter required counseling to deal with the bullying she dealt with at Bach, and Shelley Bruder was only a problem and not a solution in my child's situation. The environment a principal creates at a school has a definite impact on the way students treat one another. There are some excellent principals in the AAPS, and we have been grateful to have our children at their schools. However, our experience at Bach showed us first-hand how miserable having your child at a school with a bad principal can be, and how children can turn on one another in those situations.

Jay Thomas

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:58 p.m.

"Her kids benefit from the diverse student body at the school, she said." Who exactly is doing the bullying? Being kids, that isn't relevant I'm sure; but pointing out how important ethnic diversity is is a moral imperative. Right? According to Arborwiki: "Northside serves an extraordinarily culturally and ethnically diverse population in Ann Arbor's North Central area, with families from 25+ countries and 20+ languages. In addition, Northside offers academic excellence that few other schools can match. Northside kids love to go to school." They love to go to school... except when they're getting stuffed in lockers I suppose. There were the same problems there decades ago when I was going to school. It was usually chalked up to kids from Arrowwood. And no, it wasn't happening at every school in the district to the same degree. Typical politically correct way to write these stories. Unless you have some real world experience you don't have a clue what is going on after reading it.

YpsiGreen

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:53 p.m.

seriously people: princiPAL! Did you all go to AAPS???

racerx

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:51 p.m.

Gee, I wonder how many students sign up for classes through Quest Martial Arts. Was this the best approach by AAPS? Nothing but a sale pitch if you ask me.

FCBarcelona1899

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:41 p.m.

The problem needs to fixed now while they are still children and can change their incorrigible ways. If the problem doesn't get addressed now; we might hear about one of these kids getting locked up later on in life.

beachbaby

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:32 p.m.

@aapsparent, me thinks you protest too much. are you sure you are only an AAPS "parent"? As someone commented earlier, if a principal is not having success at one school because of these so-called climate issues, why would AAPS believe there wont be similar issues at another school? How many schools can someone be transferred to before you call it a day?????

Robbie

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:16 p.m.

What a shame to read this about Northside. My kids attended there from 1996 until late 1999. Ms. Teshima taught both of them and she was great! Sad to hear she left for greener pastures. What a huge loss! I had one daughter who attended Clague Middle School & the experience was HORRIBLE! Three bullies cornered her and shoved her into a locker when she refused to give them her money. That following Monday, I took her to school and she pointed out who they were. I went to the office & demanded the three be taken out of class & brought down and admit they were the perps. I was told to wait. That's when I called the cops and had them deal with it. Believe me, if you get the cold shoulder from the principal at Northside because you have a bullying complaint, don't stand for it, call the COPS!

Robbie

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:10 p.m.

My comment to aapsparent was basically to say to aapsparent that you have no solution, only whining and ultimately the responsibility lies with the principal!

Robbie

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:06 p.m.

aapsparent wrote: Fact: AAPS has an anti-bullying policy-see your student handbook or aaps.k12.mi.us for details

josber

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:59 p.m.

Suspending kids is more like giving them a holiday for being bad. This is really a difficult concept for many AAPS administrators. They want to look like they are doing something when there's trouble, and they go off and do something that makes a misbehaving kid misbehave more. Old timers knew that. If you want to get rid of kid, send that kid away when that kid acts up. That kid will eventually not come back, one way or another. If you want to change behavior, you have to figure why it's happening, and using positive reinforcement, reward the right behavior. Make school a good experience for them. Kids repeatedly being sent to the principal's are kid's the teacher can't figure out how to manage and has given up on trying.

Patricia Lesko

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:30 p.m.

I am going to use my real name, and it would be nice for those who comment as Northside parents (@flyingsquirrel) to do so, as well. We transferred our eldest son to Northside in the middle of first grade from Hebrew Day School, after we found out our son's teacher had locked a child in a closet to punish him, and the principal did nothing (both still work there). We have been Northside parents since 2003. @Kyle, what prompted this coverage? It would be nice to know why AA.com zeroed in on Northside out of all of the city's schools. Second, several of your unsubstantiated assertions are disturbing, beginning with the anonymous "contingent" of dissatisfied parents. Like Glynda Wilks, we've heard rumors of persistent bullying, but have not found the problem to be as ubiquitous as your coverage might lead readers to believe. To write that there is bullying in elementary school is like writing a story titled "Dog Bites Man." There was bullying when Kevin Karr was there. Teachers left the school for other spots in the District when Kevin Karr became principal. Our son was routinely whalloped by a girl in his 3rd grade class, frustrated by her total inability to speak English (Kevin Karr finally discovered). Northside has not only a high percentage of children who receive subsidized breakfasts and lunches, there is a large population of children of parents who've come to U of M to study (Some North Campus Housing children attend Northside). There is attrition in grades 3-5 because North Campus Housing families leave. Before Monica Harrold arrived, then PTO President Carol Poulos wrote a letter on behalf of ALL of the parents to then Superintendent Fornero objecting to Harrold's appointment. I was horrified. It was bullying, not by our children, but by their parents, who'd FOIAed Harrold's reviews and other documents, then distributed them to a small, insular group and expected everyone to help vilify Harrold before we'd ever spoken to her. Monica Harrold, in our experience, is responsive. I have been very vocal about the quality of instruction at the school. I also spoke to her last summer about designing a survey for parents whose children leave the school prior to the end of 5th grade, so that there is a more definitive answer to the gossipy question you chose to pose as news. I'm disappointed she hasn't followed up. I know parents who've withdrawn their children from the school in utter fury and frustration at a variety of situations they feel were not handled to their satisfaction. They did what they thought best. As I told Monica last May, our kid's staying. If we don't like something, we're going to speak up until we're satisfied. At Northside there are some intense socio-economic, racial and cultural divides. The children deal with them amazingly well. Some of the parents, on the other hand, would definitely benefit from sensitivity workshops and anti-bullying seminars. Most importantly (at least to me), Northside is among the top 25 schools in the state based on overall student performance. King Elementary, Clague Middle School and Logan Elementary are also on the list. Here's a link to the 2010 list prepared by the Michigan's Department of Education (http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-37818_56562---,00.html).

Amy Lesemann

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:26 p.m.

My older daughter attended Northside years ago, just before Karr became principal. That principal was wonderful, and the school was great, although there were nearly 30 kids in some of the classes. Then she was terribly bullied at Clague Middle School, culminating in her getting shoved down a flight of stairs and a water bottle bounced off her head. There were many such stories. The bullies would be recieve a vacation in in-school suspension (whee! no classes!), and they'd return to torment her some more. When she fought back, she, too, would be punished. How confusing for her- and she was, by the way, on the autism spectrum, not that anyone particularly cared. Community High saved her, and she was just admitted to college, with much higher self esteem, the nickname "mama bear", as the only senior girl in her forum - a gamer's forum, and now partly responsible for schooling the incoming freshmen in the ways of being a mature high school student. And the schooling, by the way, does not involve trips down the stairs, head first, or bouncing water bottles. Dean Jen Heins, and before her, Dean Peter, have the Community High well in hand, as Kevin Karr has King and as he had Northside, and as the previous principal did before him. When my daughter skips a class, I receive an automated phone call (and there are consequences for her I will not discuss here). When there are bullying or other "climate" issues, we here about it in a parent-wide email distributed online once a week. She entered that school angry, bitter, and anti-social, distrusting her peers completely. But now she's involved in theater, running props and costumes, and she speaks up when she needs to. For this, I thank the principals who read and respond to my emails (most of the time!) and always respond to my phone calls.

a2citizen

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:24 p.m.

@aapsparent: I assume your child has not had her pants pulled down against her will on a school playground.

aapsparent

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:01 p.m.

Fact: AAPS has an anti-bullying policy-see your student handbook or aaps.k12.mi.us for details Fact: Every school in Ann Arbor has issues of bullying with students transferring elsewhere (private and public schools included) No one principal should be held accountable for the bullying that takes place in a school-its a community issue involving parents, teachers, students and the administration. I find this article not to be news worthy and wonder why it was deemed so.

J. A. Pieper

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:54 p.m.

I teach in the AAPS and I do believe that most schools have some issues with bullying. Sometimes principals do not want to deal with the issue because then it is admitting there is a problem. Sorry people, new rules make it impossible to send students out of the classroom, every minute out of the classroom is considered a suspension, and must be documented. We are not even allowed to have students sit in the hall and read together or work on a project together. I have seen principals have students sit in the office and have fun when they are removed from the classroom, this does nothing to teach what is appropriate related to the behavior that got them there. Some principals just want to be friends with the students, and won't discipline. As someone mentioned in a previous comment, do you really think a teacher or other employee is going to admit that there are problems in their own school? It is not unheard of for principals to bully staff members, and if someone were to speak out about a situation in their building, they might become a prime target. (Yes, this has happened). Think AAPS will ever do anything about questionable leadership at their schools? NO, it would be admitting that THEY made a mistake, which AAPS would never admit doing. Balas just keeps getting more employees than they have real jobs, it seems their policy is "once hired, never fired!" Oh, if parents really want something done when their child is (physically) bullied, what to do? FILE A POLICE REPORT IMMEDIATELY repeat FILE A POLICE REPORT IMMEDIATELY I have seen this work, and since there seems to be an attitude of "ignore it and the problem doesn't exist" in AAPS, well, that won't happen when a police report is filed.

a2citizen

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:33 p.m.

To Ms. Davee Hunter (the parent whose child had her pants pulled down)and future bully victims: If that happened to my daughter I would have called the Ann Arbor Police. I appreciate A2.com's coverage of this story. But I'd like to see how A2 Police would cover it.

lynel

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 7:13 p.m.

It sounds like it's time to send Mrs. Harrold to Balas to hang out with the other former principal who are in over their heads.

Kelli Bullock

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 5:56 p.m.

As one of the parents mentioned in the article, Northside has some serious issues. Period. Some of these parents that haven't experienced problems are those of color and are those that either Monica Harrold favors or simply are the luckier ones. I had my child there for almost all of his/her academic school life. He/she suffered because of Northside no matter how you look at it. Remove the administrator; watch the school shine. Mark my words. But.. that won't happen as "hearsay" has it Mr. Harrold is in charge of the fair labor act LOL. Wow.. so we let our children suffer from their inadaquacies and pat the parents who don't have an issue.. and thank the teachers that do care.. Whatever AAPS!!! Shame on you as an administration.

CincoDeMayo

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 5:34 p.m.

Gobluefnp and Photogirl have it right: Parents (and teachers) are just as responsible for the climate as the principle. These are children who are trying to figure out just what they can get away with and what they can't. One day it is your child who will be the "bully" (and hopefully you will recognize that) and the next day it will be another parent's child who will be the "bully". It is all of the adults' job to TEACH respectful behavior for the sake of both the "victim" and the "bully". It does not serve the bullying child well to be allowed to believe that this is useful behavior in the "real world". Caring as much about the bullying child as the victimized child is critical. THese children are also learning how to be on the receiving end of the "bully" - a vital skill to have. It is a skill necessary even into adulthood where "bullying" continues and no principle is around to be a scapegoat. I would say that you will find varying levels of bullying and victimization anywhere, but particularly where people (ie children) are still growing and learning. This is not said to diminish the seriousness, but just to put things into perspective. I give great credit to any teacher and administrator dealing with these issues today. Trying to pull together effective tools that can cross a wide span of cultural expectations and differences has got to be one of the greatest challenges.

pat

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 5:25 p.m.

being the new kid in the school, our son was faced with bullying. as I am sure were many other kids from these thugs. we taught him that, if he could not talk his way out, or walk his way out of a situation, then stand his ground and that I would back Him Up and, go to bat for him. We believe that You NEVER let anyone touch your family. This principle has worked in our family as we stick together. No Bully can withstand that tyep of family or principle.

Sallyxyz

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 4:51 p.m.

I'm sure there are anti-bullying policies in AAPS, but policies are only as good as they are enforced. Suspension should be used more often, though some kids would view not being in school as a vacation. It's the parents who need to instill discipline from the get-go. By the time a kid reaches school, he or she should have a basic understanding of right and wrong, and should have been taught to listen to the teacher and follow directions. This is basic, but people would be shocked to see how many kids in elem schools all over the district simply do not have any respect for themselves, their peers, their teachers or the schools. Any parent should spend a full day in a school and see for themselves how things are managed. Visit classrooms, visit the lunchroom, visit the playground during lunch recess. It would be time well spent. I don't know the rules on expulsion/suspension at the elem level, and I would think a parent has to come to the school to discuss it with the principal before it's implemented. I don't know the policy, however. Another option would be to set up an in-school suspension room (supervised by staff) for elementary buildings that do not allow games, etc. Just sit all day at a desk. Period. It's supposed to be unpleasant, not playtime. In my view, there isn't enough discipline in many of the schools, and enforcing more discipline along the way right from the start would potentially decrease the need for expulsions, which is an option to avoid if possible. I've worked in public education in other states, and even in communities with many more socio-economic challenges than A2, the schools are far more disciplined. These aggressive, bullying behaviors were simply not tolerated in any building at any level. It takes a commitment from the leadership of the district, however, to stand up and enforce policies that, in the case of AAPS, are loosely and inconsistently enforced, in my view. Part of the problem in AAPS is lack of leadership in instilling a culture of discipline. I personally think AAPS is afraid of some of the parents who might push back if rules were actually enforced, or threaten lawsuits, however misguided (some parents believe "kids will be kids," or "that's not my kid who is at fault" etc). The other problem in AAPS are all the cutbacks and overcrowding. Elem classes with 26-30 students is far too many under any circumstances. At the middle and high school level, classes of 30-35 is just unmanageable. Some rooms in the high schools are jammed with students, desks and backpacks to the point where it's impossible to walk across the room. None of these situations is conducive to learning and even the best teachers are at a great disadvantage. Lots of issues are involved.

ViSHa

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 4:36 p.m.

The most troubling part of this whole story is this: was transferred from Abbot because she "wasn't sufficiently addressing what administrators called climate issues, a term used to refer to relationships and communication among staff, parents, students and the principal." I purposely didn't include the principal's name because it makes me wonder how many other transfers are due to similar reasons? What makes the powers that be think just changing locations will make problems go away? Is there some legal ramifications they would face if they didn't transfer vs. letting go? While i feel for the parents at Northside who are having problems, I think aa.com is only scratching the surface on a major problem within AAPS.

Photogirl

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

I went to Abbot Elementary school when Mrs. Harrold was Principal and to be perfectly honest she was an amazing principal, she cared about her students and anyone could tell by the way she talked to her students. I am getting so tired of reading articles about bullying and how the principals are to blame, lets face it EVERY SCHOOL HAS BULLYING!!!!!! Colleges have bullying. It is not the principals fault they do the best they can to make their school a safe place for all students. Mrs. Harrold did that when I was at Abbot. She did her best to make sure the school was safe and her students needs were met. In fact from what I saw at Abbot and from what I have seen at other Elementary schools the Parents are just as big as bullies as the children are. So why not an article be written about why parents do nothing and expect the teachers and principals to tell their children that bullying is wrong? And tell me parents, when are you going to start stepping up and taking responsibility for your childrens actions? A principal and teachers are not with students 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.

penguingrl

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 3:56 p.m.

josber I never indicated that Mrs. Harrold did not listen to any and all concerns. She did not turn people away from her office even when in MY opinion that the parents were making incredulous demands. By the way I had first person observation of the demands. There were situations where the 4 or 5 parents acted inappropriately in a school setting and did not display suitable behaviour. Your reply made an inaccurate assumption about Mrs. Harrold. If I was not clear enough then let me reiterate that she had an open door at Abbot and always gave time to parents, teachers & students listening to their concerns and attempting to find a positive solution.

Soothslayer

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 3:09 p.m.

Sorry but teaching martial arts in school is a horrible idea. They are always portrayed as "cool fighting" in all modern video games, TV and movies. Bad behaviour starts at home, it's not the schools job to teach kids how to behave. Privatize schools now and stop the waste of resources and most importantly our childrens valuable time. The current system doesn't work.

shadow wilson

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 2:57 p.m.

So glad I don't have to deal with this crap anymore(kids are in college)A strong principal makes a huge difference. Remember a few mo's ago the viral video of a guy that walked onto the bus and threatened the brats that were bullying his disable daughter? How much any of you want to bet those kids left her alone? Of Course the experts and authorities were all wringing their hands as this was the wrong way of solving things_ as if they had any clue of how to handle things.Myself I cheered. It is just too bad that the bully's can not be removed from the schools.You bully you're out that simple.Your education how ever important it is to your parents is now their responsibility.

Gorc

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 2:28 p.m.

Northside elementary is consistently one of the lowest scoring schools in Ann Arbor on MEAP testing. And this article describes an unusually high amount of bullying at Northside. For those students who have poor grades or can't behave appropriately in public.....I BLAME THEIR PARENTS. These parents need to get their act together.

jns131

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 1:27 p.m.

msclean? Did he work for transportation before coming to Balas and given this position? Because I know exactly what you mean. Shift em around till they retire.

jns131

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 1:25 p.m.

This is not just a Northside problem, but a problem for all of Ann Arbors Schools. Our child comes home regularly to tell us it is rampant in that school too. I see it on the buses and let me tell you, everyone has the problem and it is not going to go away any time soon unless an enforcer enforces this problem and it is addressed quickly and efficiently. This is what I call the flip side of don't ask don't tell. Good luck Ann Arbor. You are not doing a great job combating this problem. I think more parents need to do what I did, call an attorney. Makes things happen more efficiently.

magnumpi

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 12:08 p.m.

sally, i completely agree with your last paragraph. as to the rest of the post, i have a question. doesn't michigan or aaps have an anti-bullying policy? would some type of suspension to said bully get the parent's attention? or would this just create more problems? when one of my daughters was bullied, the bully wound up hanging in the office playing games. not exactly a deterrent.

Sallyxyz

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:44 a.m.

Northside is one of the tougher schools in the district. Some students come from homes where discipline is not regularly maintained, and some students simply feel they can act in whatever way they want to once they are in the school building. There are also some well-behaved students at the school. However, the responsibility for instilling values of appropriate behavior starts at home. The schools inherit whatever behaviors the students bring to the building and can only do a limited amount of correction. If bullying is allowed at home, then the student will bring bullying to school. There is no magic wand that can be waived at the door to the school building to make all the bad behaviors disappear. Most staff do the best they can under the circumstances, but with overcrowded classes, lack of teacher assistants and students from a wide variety of homes (some with little discipline maintained at home), it can be a losing battle. A few teachers give up and give in, allowing some of the bad behaviors to continue, unfortunately. @seedocks: "I know I wouldn't want to teach a class of 15 kids all day." I've never seen a class that small in the school district in recent years other than a special ed classroom (and 15 sp ed kids in one room would be way too large). I think most teachers would love a class of 15, but that's just not the reality at AAPS or many other public school districts. I agree with the other posters that there needs to be serious evaluation/performance procedures implemented, with the teeth to enforce it, for teachers and administrators. Too many staff are not doing their jobs and being shuffled from building to building, or doing busy work at Balas, because there is no way to fire them for performing poorly. Hire a private outside firm to do the dirty work and keep politics out of it. It would be money well spent.

josber

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:38 a.m.

@penguingirl When someone characterizes parent's demands as incredulous, that makes me think that someone is not a problem solver, someone who understands the demands exist for some reason, and the person who has been casting judgement as to the quality of the demands is categorizing the demands, not listening to the demands as a point from which to start trying to solve the problems. Not listening can definitely cause a lot of trouble for everyone concerned....

magnumpi

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:18 a.m.

@seedocks. i think it is important to know that this school feeds into UM campus. Some of the numbers may possibly be attributed to that. @skfina2, your story sounds exactly like Dicken, with just the names changed. i wish the "whiny" parents at Abbott could share how they were successful in getting the principal removed.

MsWebster

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:08 a.m.

The data on the Washtenaw school site may be from a few years ago. I checked some of the other schools out and they have incorrect information (principal names etc.)

My A2 cents

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:06 a.m.

"A School for Bullies" is an inflammatory headline that is designed to sell papers. It is not a headline that reflects the full content of this article. I expect more of your publication.

skfina2

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 11:06 a.m.

In 1993, when we were looking at houses in anticipation of a move to Ann Arbor, we were warned to stay away from the Northside area. At one time the school had a reputation as one of the worst in Ann Arbor. We ignored what we had heard and bought a house in the Northside district; our oldest child was two years old at the time and we figured we had some time before we had to worry about the wuality of the school. We found out that yes, before AAPS redistricted in the mid '80s, Northside did have problems, but redistricting was not the only thing that turned the school around. Another was the choice of a quality administrator, Shelley Bruder. When Ms. Bruder was transferred to Mitchell to perform her same magic there, AAPS brought Bill Morgan, another strong principal, out of retirement for what turned out to be three or four years. This is when my oldest started at Northside. Mr. Morgan was one of those rare principals who was well-liked by staff, students and parents. During his last year as principal, Mr. Morgan groomed one of his teachers, Kevin Karr, to take his place. Kevin was the principal at Northside for most of my four children's time at Northside, and I can't way enough good things about him and the way he ran the school. I remember feeling incredibly lucky to have my kids at such a great place. When Monica Harrold was brought in as principal in 2005, the Northside community was very upset. Not only was a well-liked principal being taken away, but the one being brought in was on an improvement plan. The atmosphere of the school did seem to change. The door to the principal's office was no longer open all the time, and the principal did not seem to be as much of a presence. While I did not have much interaction with Ms. Harrold (unlike Mr. Morgan or Mr. Karr), I frankly was not very impressed with her. And I can say with certainty that I was not the only one with that opinion. As the article stated, two highly-regarded teachers recently left Northside to go work for Kevin Karr at King. Three of my children were lucky enough to have had one of them, Lisa Teshima, who I kind of think of as Superteacher - she's awesome. Her transfer was a big loss for Northside, but more importantly, it spoke volumes about the leadership at that school. A previous commenter asked if there was a racial factor involved. I think there is, unfortunately. I hate to say it, but AAPS does seem to go out of its way to hire minority administrators, even if they might not be the best fit for the school or the most qualified. It's almost as if they're saying, "Hey, look at us, look how diverse we are and how forward-thinking, too." Meanwhile schools suffer.

penguingrl

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:56 a.m.

My children were at Abbot when Mrs. Harrold became principal. She has always been dedicated to the children. The students are always her first priority. This sounds exactly like the situation at Abbot. A small group of parents (4 or 5) did not like that they (the parents) did not get special attention nor get their way with every demand they made. Stories were fabricated and the parents made outlandish allegations that were proved blatant lies that were racially motivated. This same small group of parents continued their accusations and verbal attacks even after the school administration caved in and moved Mrs. Harrold. It is easier for the administration to give in to these whiners than to say no and support their staff. Before Mrs. Harrold came to Abbot we had a principal a year for at least 3 years. This devoted professional brought stability and the bold idea of placing the children's needs over the parents incredulous demands.

seedocks

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:54 a.m.

I think just looking at enrollment numbers is misleading. I have two kids that go here and most of the parents I have met and interacted with are not even going to have their kids here for more than 2-3 years. I noticed that most of them come from U of M's north campus area and are only staying here until their grad programs are done. So you have a large amount of kids going in and out from all over. I think a lot of the problem stems from poor parenting. I know that my son had problems with a class mate and when i contacted the parent she said her son did no such thing and it was because we were from another country and did not understand how kids are in the US. I then told her we are from the US. I just feel that the teachers and staff do a great job with the constant change of students from the university and all the different views and beliefs that come with this change and diversity. I know that things like this are dealt with differently in countries overseas, but in the end when parents rely on the teachers to "RAISE" their kids, you are going to have problems like these. I simply tell my kids to stand up for themselves and teach them how it is wrong. Most of these kids that bully probably have home issues that the school cannot fix. The parents of these kids need to step up be parents not rely on teachers to "teach" morals and behavior. Morals are what religion, spirituality, and family teach. The behavior problem starts at home and needs to end there first. Anyway I know I wouldn't want to teach a class of 15 kids all day and have to try to do this on top of explain to one bad seed how hitting is wrong when at home hitting might be okay. Come on people talk to the kids parents and stop blaming the teachers for not fixing the problem. Set an example for your kid and call the other kids parent. They have a directory.

gobluefnp

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:43 a.m.

As a parent who has had children at Northside spanning almost two decades, I feel compelled to comment on this article. During this time span, there were five fantastic principals. Shelly Bruder, James Morgan, One interim principal (cannot remember name) Kevin Karr, and Monica Harrold. They all brought different qualties to enhance the Northside community. Shelly Bruder dressed up as Zero the hero, James Morgan brought a high level of respect, Kevin Karr knew every childs name in that school, Monica Harrold brought floor hockey and movie nights which almost completely funded 5th grade camp and established a cult following. Strangely enough, during all of these transitions, the only time that we saw rabid opposition was before Monica arrived. Kevin was a beloved and coveted principal, understandably we were upset to lose him. Even before Monica had met the families, parents were googling her, doing background checks and emailing other parents with complaints. These were indeed strange times. It isn't the quality of the principals that have changed...honestly it is the quality of the parenting that has. Has anyone noticed that rude and bullying parents often have rude bully children? My brother in law has always said that schools are only as good as the parents who are involved. Although I have close friends who felt like their childrens needs were not being met, I would like to add that I knew tenfold more parents who felt like their childrens needs WERE being met, and shared in the sense of community that Northside has always been so proud of. I am not an advocate of bullying. I would like to remind everyone that elementary school is for children age approx 5-10. Monica was always receptive to my needs and concerns. There was at least one incident where my child appeared to be the bully. This was dealt with swiftly...by principal and parents. Monica and the teachers were not expected to be the cure-all. Basic principles of how you treat other people should be taught at home. These children are just that....developmentally and emotionally...children. Northside Elementary is an incredible school, with an incredible principal, as well as teachers and families. I encourage all of the people who are upset with the situation to resolve to become an active part of the solution.

Technojunkie

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:36 a.m.

@cibachrome: 71 kindergarteners steadily declining to 30 5th graders? If that isn't a clue I don't know what is. Northside had this same problem 30 years ago under principal Harry Mial. Same share your feelings approach, virtually no discipline enforcement. My family switched to private school in the middle of that exodus. Requests to transfer to a neighboring public school were denied on the basis of race. Eventually Mr. Mial was promoted to an administrative job elsewhere, they reorganized the district and things got better for a while. I'm saddened to hear that the troubles are back. Bullies only understand force. I sometimes wonder how many of the bullies I dealt with wound up in prison because they weren't taught discipline at an early age. AAPS needs to learn to fire leaders who aren't up to the task.

janofmi

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:25 a.m.

My son was bullied through elementary school and still, at 17, deals with issues related to peer relations. Using the excuse that "it happens everywhere and Northside is no different" is simple excuse making. The first step to solving the problem is taking ownership of the problem.

ViSHa

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 10:11 a.m.

wow cibachrome. 30 kids in the fifth grade?? thanks for the link.

Killroy

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:46 a.m.

Lousy teachers and administrators happen! We have all had our fair share, but what is troubling is that it is having a negative impact on our students and AAPS doesn't seem to have an real process for eliminating these from schools nor tracking the troubling behavior.

cibachrome

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 9:44 a.m.

Information about Northside school indicates it ought to be declared an educational disaster zone. If there were an 8th grade, one could project a population of -3 students! Why hasn't someone suggested that it be closed? http://www.washtenawschools.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.schooldetail&sch=260282004021&st=MI&county=Washtenaw&grade=ele I'm also surprized that mentioning race in this text has not be automatically deleted from the comment section, considering the Holier than Thou AA PC atmospheric positioning.

ViSHa

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:55 a.m.

Information from a umich.edu website stated that monica harrold was a teacher in aaps before becoming an administrator. Is it possible to find out how long she taught before becoming a principal and at which schools?

msclean

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:53 a.m.

They don't fire principle's. They move them them around a few times and when the principle can't make it at any of the schools they move them to the administration building and create a job for them there. I mean making a principle supervisor to custodians? They had to make a job for him. ANN ARBOR DOES NOT FIRE PRINCIPLE'S, no matter how bad they are, or no matter how controversial they are.

flyingsquirrel

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:44 a.m.

I agree that Northside doesn't have a bully problem. What they have is a principal problem. Monica Harrold was moved from Abbott for driving that school into the ground, and she has been doing the same with Northside since she has been there. There is no way the enrollment numbers listed in this story show the true picture of what's been happening at the school. People are leaving in droves. Even sadder, teachers are leaving in droves--two very talented teachers left to teach at King (with Kevin Karr, what a surprise!) A number of others have gladly skipped away to teach elsewhere. AAPS administration, the school board, the teachers--they all know Monica Harrold is a problem principal. They simply have no way to get rid of her and nowhere to put her.

ViSHa

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:38 a.m.

Please do a story on this revolving door of principals who aren't able to address "climate issues". This is the second principal this year we have heard that has a history of school-hopping. And does anyone really think a teacher or assistant is going to go on record to aa.com bad-mouthing the school? Were more interviewed and there was only room for two interviews? Have any teachers left/transferred from Northside since Kevin Karr left? If so how many? I feel sorry for these parents. As has been demonstrated this year, the district seems to prefer transferring students rather than dealing with the principal.

cinnabar7071

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.

antikvetch That is so Ann Arbor.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.

Maybe they could transfer in that bully principle, for hands on learning.

antikvetch

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:23 a.m.

Exactly right, AlphaAlpha. It's called "The Rossi Ray-Taylor" approach. Maybe a special millage to pay for it? After all, it's for the children -

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 8:10 a.m.

Including the bullies, and the school employees not adequately supervising? Interesting idea. We could reward them for the poor environment...

antikvetch

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 7:58 a.m.

Maybe if we just paid everybody at the school more money, the problems would be solved.

josber

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 7:40 a.m.

Let the school institute a positive behavior plan that works...

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 7:35 a.m.

How in the world can someone be transferred in as a principal when problems indicated firing was necessary at her last job? That's AAPS for you - the Vatican City of the education world. As long as people like Harrold are unwilling to expel a student who repeatedly bullies others, this problem will continue.

msclean

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 7:34 a.m.

I work for the district and have heard a lot of rumor's about this principal. None good. When the district has a problem with a principal they start moving them around, till eventually they end up at Balas. They made one supervisor to the custodian's. Now when a custodian need's to ask a question on certain cleaning procedure's he can't answer because he is a principle with NO custodial back ground and NO knowledge to the chemical's custodian's have to use. So let's start playing the moving game. then the district can create a job at Balas for her. Let's waste some more money.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Dec 26, 2010 : 6:59 a.m.

Where else can so many people have so many civil rights violated so frequently?