nojoke35

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 11:42 p.m.

@chrisW-you are about the only one throughout these comments that is accurrate about the incident on hollywood. it was only the two girls fighting. the woman debbiedora or whoever she calls herself she was not only inaccurate with who was fighting but she was also inaccurate about how many children it was. i really have no clue as to what she is talking about. apparently she is still stuck on what happened to her child and is caught up in some emotional zone. i can understand and relate to her as far as her child goes because i have children but she should not take what happened to her child and hold others accountable just because her child's yarmulke was taken of their heads. it was a fight. things will get pulled an snatched off. is a hijab and exception? what would she say if she was told that the girls sister pulled her own hijab off cause she was trying to fight? if she claims she saw the whole thing she would have seen that. cause that did happen. she really does need to get her facts straight before she finds herself really looking dumfounded at the computer one day,evening or night. cause the muslim girl is not the victim in this matter and she is not innocent either. once again debbiedora stated she saw everything. well did she see who's house not only the girl went to, but her 19yr old sister and her 17 yr old brother went to? but once again she saw it all!!! those three went to jump on the 14 yr old girl whom the girl got her hijab pulled off from. i think that people are entitled to their own opinion, but in her case she really needs to get some glasses, stop judging every incident that occurs when someone gets a scarf snatced off because it happened to her child and last but definetly not least get her facts togethe before she wants to comment on something. thank you chrisW and thanks to billy and dagnyj for trying to set her straight

kangokay

Wed, Oct 14, 2009 : 11:32 a.m.

jns131: from reading your other posts, I take it you are a bus driver or related to one. In regards to your comments here: If you claim to know what "really happened" and plan on "keeping your mouth shut", then I don't see how you can tell people to let the court system work it out. The courts wont work if people keep their mouths shut. This will be just a slap on the wrist to the attackers and no justice for the victims. Here is the number for the prosecutors office: 734-222-6620

jns131

Sat, Oct 3, 2009 : 11:16 a.m.

After reading all of these comments I am sadden to say that Maple Road Housing has a lot of issues and a lot of problems. I wasn't there when it happened but rest assured I did hear that Washington DC did send out the attorney general to investigate this incident. You will need to go to him to figure out what they came up with. What is sad is that the Detroit News misrepresented the facts and the same with all the other papers included. AAPS does what it can to make sure all students are safe on the bus. Bus drivers are not baby sitters, but it sure sounds like it is. I am also convinced that all the problems at Sky Line are stemming from the fact that they are adding new children every year to the school which is increasing the student population and increasing tensions and new attitudes to the school. We all need to get along and work together. I know what really happened out there and am keeping my mouth shut. All I am saying is this, let us let the courts work it out and in the end the court records will prevail. As for Maple Road? Sounds like a few people are ruining it for the rest. Good luck to the families.

emma

Fri, Sep 18, 2009 : 3:26 a.m.

from the other articles I've read about this the majority of this girls injuries were sustained when she was dragged to a nearby house and beaten by 1 female and 3 males. It's pretty sickening to me that some males were in on the beating. I hope the police inquiry will look into these allegations seriously.

David Jesse

Wed, Sep 16, 2009 : 6:32 p.m.

There has been no further word from the school district. I don't expect there to be any further comment from them.

Grrrrrrrr41

Wed, Sep 16, 2009 : 5:48 p.m.

Has there been any further word about this from AAPS Administration?

emma

Tue, Sep 15, 2009 : 6:01 p.m.

cwhite: it says it was the girls first day of school in a community she was new to, which suggests that this fight was not fueled by past arguments between those involved. That gives some merit to the claims that this is may be race motivated.

cwhite20

Tue, Sep 15, 2009 : 5:18 p.m.

Reading this reminds me of when I was in Ann Arbor High Schools back in '01 - '05. There was always an underlying hatred between groups of black people and arabic people. This always resulted in lots of fights. And from what I saw of it, things were fueled pretty equally from both sides. I don't know what exactly happened to this girl, but I find it extremely hard to believe that she was assaulted simply for her race. This isn't south central or anything. This is Ann Arbor. The schools promote diversity to the nth degree. I saw many fights for many reasons while in the Ann Arbor Schools, but never did I see or hear of anyone being targeted specifically because of their ethnicity or gender. Every time something like that happened, it would start out verbally for whichever reason, usually marinate for several days, slowly escalating, and then end up with a fight or an assault. Kids in this city are not roaming the streets looking for people of different races to assault. That's just not what happens here. My guess is that while no one deserves what happened to this girl, she was not the blameless victim that people would have you believe.

tolrncisntacptnc

Tue, Sep 15, 2009 : 1:40 p.m.

Wake up Ann Arbor, welcome to the real world. Our little sanctuary is no exception. I grew up here but have been fortunate enough to experience a decent amount of the U.S. and world. This happens daily. Racism exists. Kids fight. Parents don't teach respect or discipline. Ann Arbor is no exception. Example: I was walking home from work in the neighborhoods on the west side, where there have recently been a lot of robberies. A police officer stops, shines the spotlight on me and drives off...twice. Any legit cop, trying to investigate would have stopped and asked if I'd seen suspicious activities. If you haven't figured it out, yes I'm black. Tolerance is NOT acceptance, and education (for those with 16+ years of education) does not make you an expert....we tolerate in Ann Arbor but do not practice acceptance. Parents of ALL ethnicities- Teach your kids right and wrong, because it starts early.

David Jesse

Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 8:56 p.m.

SH1: We're aware of some concerns about some posts on this story and have been monitoring them. If there are posts that you question, please hit the flag this post button that is on each comment. You can also e-mail me at davidjesse@annarbor.com if you have concerns. David

sh1

Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 7:57 p.m.

Mr. Jesse, I understand the first amendment allows people to speak their minds without fear of recrimination, but a particular poster is writing fictional or greatly exaggerated stories about her child and naming a school and its staff and children. Is there something you can do about this?

pegret

Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 12:29 p.m.

Thank you, schoolsmuse...that's the most useful information we've received so far.

schoolsmuse

Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 11:41 a.m.

Skyline parents--PTSO meeting is tonight if you want more information.

Eric P

Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 11:28 a.m.

One of the lessons of recent school violence that AAPS & AAPD adminastration do not seem to have learned is that while they might not be ready to comment on what happened they can and should dispel false rumors about incidents ASAP

Maple

Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 9:43 p.m.

What I notice is that anytime an article comes up on ANY news site that involves "Muslims" the article inevitably draws 100s of comments, many or even most from people who want to question whether or not the event even occurred or whether or not the "Muslim advocacy group" is truthful. If this was a Jewish kid who was called a "dirty Jew" and had his yarmulke ripped off, would this discussion have had so many comments? How about if it was an openly gay student being called a "faggot"? Or an Asian student being called a "chink" or whatever other epithets there are? Why are there so many people who want to assume that the "Muslims" in this situation are embellishing and exaggerating?! Maybe some people need to come to grips with the fact that the hatred being spewed by certain talk radio and religious and political personalities in our country is having actual violent physical consquences. What a concept.

emma

Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 2:50 p.m.

For those of you who say u witnessed this attack, or know of the attackers as having a history of bullying the muslim kids, and the lady who said she herself has seen the mother of one of the attackers telling her kids to bully the arab children at school: you should be telling this information to the police for their investigation, its of little use for you to post it here.

Eric P

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 3:28 p.m.

Community High has also traditionally used the half day before the Thanksgiving holiday for a Multi-Cultural feast. It would be nice to hear that in light of what ever happened that the student body at Skyline would work on starting their own tradition or response to the cultural tensions they are all living with.

Eric P

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 3:28 p.m.

Community High has also traditionally used the half day before the Thanksgiving holiday for a Multi-Cultural feast. It would be nice to hear that in light of what ever happened that the student body at Skyline would work on starting their own tradition or response to the cultural tensions they are all living with.

Jonathan J.-W.

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 2:35 p.m.

@ Grrrrrrrr41 It's great to celebrate cultural diversity. My elementary school (Moorsbridge Elementary) did something a lot like that in Portage, MI. I would be very suprised if a middle school or especially a high school did a world diversity night thing here in Ann Arbor. From my experience, teenagers are a lot more hesitant and unwilling to express their culture and ethnic heritage- especially if they're not Caucasian. It has a lot to do with conforming and fitting in, which is so indescribably important for students today. I think, however, that teenagers also need something more... deep, in terms of multicultural education. I think there needs to be a stronger focus and emphasis on acceptance and toleration, as well as historical education on prejudice and discrimination. I dunno how, though; I'm among the 'being educated' not an 'educator.' But "Teaching Tolerance" has some great material and curriculum.

Grrrrrrrr41

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 1:31 p.m.

@ Jonathan J. I graduated over 25 years ago and from what I have heard (and experienced), things have deteriorated since that time. Also, as I am white, it was my perception that it was "one big happy family". The reality may have been quite different for others, most definitely is now.

Eric P

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 1:21 p.m.

anyone know if SEED (Students Educating Each other about Discrimination), which started at Community High in 1987, is still around?

Jonathan J.-W.

Sat, Sep 12, 2009 : 12:47 p.m.

I'm an ethnic student at Skyline High School. All the articles and letters I've read regarding the incident (Ann Arbor.com, Free Press, AAPS district official letter) have been patchy and not very concrete. If racism and discrimination was involved (which I'm inclined to believe was, although that hasn't been conclusively and fully proved), then AAPS has obviously failed in teaching multicultural/ religious education, acceptance, and tolerance. The education of the students involved was skewed, and the district response to the incident to its students and parents was just pathetic. How was it addressed IN SCHOOL? On Wednesday, my English 10 class had a flimsy 30-minute discussion on "What causes Prejudice?" We also talked a little about it in Social Studies on Friday. I think what AAPS needs to be doing now is re-evaluating the safety of after-school transportation in the interests of the students of AAPS. Safety and security of students should be a primary concern for the district now. As an ethnic student at Skyline High, how am I supposed to feel? I'm certainly not of the Islamic faith, but I have witnessed ethnic tension at Skyline. Secondly, I think AAPS needs to work on its multicultural education and educating students on cultural and religious acceptance and tolerance. And "Grrrrrrrr41," I don't know WHEN you went to Ann Arbor Public Schools, but I've been going to school in this district for three years now and it is NOT "one big happy family." I see prejudice and discrimination every day. Certainly not people jumping other people resulting in six stitches, but in the way people group and form cliques. In off-handed comments. In looks and glares of disdain and spite. In racially-charged insults- I've seen an Arab girl called "a terrorist." And I'm not talking just racial/ethnic discrimination here; there is rampant homophobia among high school guys. How many times do I hear gay slurs and "Oh, that is so gay" every day? There is gender discrimination. There is classism and socio-economic division. There is prejudice against foreigners. I've been jokingly told "Wow! You speak good English!" I don't even speak Chinese. The bottom line is, prejudice exists in AAPS. It may not always be apparent on the surface, but in incidents like these, it rears its ugly face for all to see. And that's a shame. And it's a bigger shame that it takes something like THIS to bring attention to prejudice and discrimination in Ann Arbor Public Schools.

Grrrrrrrr41

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 10:46 p.m.

It saddens me to report that racism is alive and well in AAPS. I was raised here - having attended AAPS my whole life - having friends from numerous cultures - we were one big happy family. If racism existed at that time, I was not aware of it. At least there wasn't the tension that seems prevalent in the schools these days. I too believe that racist attitudes start in the home, but based on what I experienced in the last year, I can understand where the anger that generates the hatred comes from. I am a white Mom with biracial children. I worked hard to be able to a afford to move back to AA as I thought it was the ideal place to raise my children. I have a great deal of regret with this decision. We were smacked with stereotyping and racist comments from the school administration. Because I am a single, white mother, I believe assumptions were made that I was poor, ignorant and uneducated, when in reality I am very well educated and make good money. My middle school son was stereotyped as a dumb troublemaker which was far from the truth. They seemed to have very low expectations of black children and their families - a big part of why many AAPS's have significant achievement gaps between white and black students. I am in NO WAY condoning what these black students did (although we really DON'T have all the facts yet). Ann Arbor has a well known reputation for being a culturally diverse and accepting community. Our dirty little secret is that it really ISN'T so accepting. And it's very sad. Racism is ugly. Period. It is a cycle that is clearly hard to break. It is passed down from generations before. It breeds fear, anger and hate. We are supposed to be a community that celebrates diversity, where we could all learn so much from each other. The cycle needs to be broken at home. Black, white, asian, hispanic, middle eastern- parents - please do your part.

ChrisW

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 10:27 p.m.

Ok. I'm a student of Skyline High School and I rode Bus 89, the bus that was right behind the bus where the fight started. I'll admit, I have no idea what arguments may have happened, but the fight was between an African-American girl and a Muslim girl. The other 5-7 kids were not fighting, merely watching, and later helped break up the fight. This has been blown way out of proportion. Two people get in an argument, they settle things the wrong way, and now one of them has to pay federal crimes for it? This wasn't a one-sided hate crime, it was highschool angst gone bad.

L'chaim

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 9:10 p.m.

Certainly all the details of this incident are disturbing, in the worst ways. Many people seem to think that it's a "simple" matter of youth violence, that it was a "normal" fight, not a "hate crime." I tend to agree, but I have reservations about my own opinion. The incident raises the question of racism, for sure. So does the deep and widespread presence of violence in youth culture (in schools, at parties, on the streets and even in the home). I wasn't at the scene adn I wasn't on the bus; but especially, I haven't been in and around teh N. Maple estates community to know how much (I say how much and not "if there is any") racial tension there is between the groups.I think it's good to have groups who will raise the question, although they may, of course, be reacting with a certain amount of "emotional" gusto (hard not to, in this case). IT would be foolish to dismiss the question of racism, or to simplify it so crudely, as many on this discussion have done. I think that the violence in kids behavior reflects the violence in society. The US has waged a war that directly affects several muslim countries for more than a decade now, and kids know this. "Arab" is considered synonymous with "terrorist" in American terms, and every kid knows this. And black people, well, they've been on the bottom of the American social ladder since they were forced to erect it centuries ago. What's my point? Well, I think the extreme voices on this discussion want simple answers to very complex questions, and that's just dumb. Our schools are not what they could be for our kids, and that's even dumber. There is a political backdrop to this incident that has to come to the fore in order to get past this kind of incident. Schools need funding, war does not. OK, that sounds totally "simplistic", but it's equally true.

Neo

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 9:06 p.m.

I think someone needs a good spanking, apologize, shake hands and be done with it.

GeeWhiz

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 7:58 p.m.

If the witness and AAPS description of fighting on the streets after being dropped of by a school bus doesn't cut it for you then I can't help you.. Maybe the spokesman for the Arab-American advocacy group who is your sole "witness" to a lady being dragged to a house can come to Ann Arbor to demonstrate until the police file kidnapping charges in addition to hate crimes. :rolleyes

Eric P

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 6:49 p.m.

"Go back and read an earlier comment from DebbieDora2 who claims she witnessed it with her six-year old from "start to finish"" which I did, and from that post I didn't get a clear sense of what she did and didn't see. If the "stitches and dragged to a nearby home" are false statements then AA.com via the AAPS or the AAPD should have been able to dispel those charges at this point.

GeeWhiz

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 6:29 p.m.

@EricP: Go back and read an earlier comment from DebbieDora2 who claims she witnessed it with her six-year old from "start to finish". People were fighting in the streets. Traffic was blocked on N. Maple. The fighting occurred in public in front of lots of witnesses!

Eric P

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 5:46 p.m.

GeeWhiz: I have yet to see any authorities discredit the "dragged to a house and inflicted injuries" part of the story (which should be easy to fact check), or state that the remarks were false. This many days out any false statements should have been addressed by the school and the police. How do you know it is "Obviously False"? Bottom line, unwanted touching of any kind is at least assault and those who perpetrate it should leave the scene in handcuffs.

GeeWhiz

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 5:04 p.m.

@ErikP: The story of 5 people dragging a helpless female to a nearby house and assaulting her was an inflammatory remark by the head of an Arab-American advocacy group. It is obviously false.. The story, according to the spokeswoman for the AAPS is that two girls were arguing on a school bus, got dropped off at their stop and then started fighting at which time more people got involved. Charges may be filed after police interview all the witnesses but not based on the inflammatory statements of the Arab-American council!

Eric P

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 4:41 p.m.

So someone correct me if I am wrong but "the attackers dragged her to a nearby home, and inflicted injuries that required six stitches on her face" and no one has been arrested for at LEAST kidnapping and assault and battery as of yet?

motivatedshi

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 1:40 p.m.

wanted to share a quick story I Read on a website not too long ago: I am an American from the middle east. Well at least my parents were, I was born and raised here. Growing up in America during the 80's amongst the height of anti-Arab sentiment was not the most pleasant experience at times. High school is scary as it is, and everyone has been the brunt of jokes. However it went further than that. For a 15 year old to be called everything from a smelly Arab to a baby killer and held accountable for things he/she has no direct knowledge/involvement in is more damaging than you can imagine. Because I am first generation and my roots are not obvious due to not having an accent and not dressing in the conventional Muslim attire, I have never experienced anywhere near the racism people like my parents faced. My father had a Ph.D. and yet had to endure snide comments from fast food employees for not understanding his accent. I have yet to meet anyone with a more genuine respect and love for this country than he had. Having moved here to seek the medical treatment not available to him in Egypt, he literally felt he owed every breath he took to this nation. Yet his patriotism was always questioned by "Americans" who have forgotten the principles this country was founded on. I was raised in NY and only moved her a few years ago, so not only am I worried about whether my family(I have yet to reach many of them) was harmed in the crash, but whether they are also being persecuted and blamed for this horrible act. As a child I was confused and hurt by the narrow mindedness of certain fractions of this society, as an adult I am still hurt but it is accompanied by a strong sense of anger. I read these posts, and once again feel that all to familiar hostility towards ALL Arabs. I walk down the street and overhear tidbits of conversation (boycott all Arab businesses!)and am tempted to stop and scream.....WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF? Gone is the teenager that hoped no one realized where she was from. As an adult I feel no urge to run and hide from the hateful words. I am confident and educated and have a deep love not only for this nation but for my heritage, I now know that there is more to it than bombings and fundamentalism and CNN's bias footage. I have walked the streets of Egypt and shared the warmth and love of its people. I have no more tolerance for your hate, if you are prepared to judge an ENTIRE race based on the actions of a small militant minority, I will be there to call you on your ignorance. If you are willing to crucify your fellow Americans and ruin their lives by boycotting the stores they have worked so hard to build than you had better remember that Arab Americans are everywhere, it's not just the guy with the turban behind the counter. Even though we might not be easily identifiable to you(based on the stereotypes you love so much) we are here and we are aware and we will not allow you to interfere with our civil liberties. Direct your anger towards those responsible, not those that share their ancestry. Thank you, I just needed to say all this.

100PercentAmerican

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 1:14 p.m.

I saw this same kind of stuff go down back in '79 at Pioneer High. At that time, the victims were my Iranian brothers. I broke up so many fights and reported all of them to school officials who did absolutely NOTHING to discipline the perpetrators. It angered me a great deal then and it angers and saddens me all over again to learn the same thing is happening this time to my Iraqi cousins. It's time to act like Americans and deal with the hostility. The bus driver should have drove directly downtown to City Hall; lay him off. The Sklyline principal MUST do something decisive now otherwise every AA parent should demand her resignation. I hear there are various black support groups in the AAPS? Time to earn your talk; condemn this action. As for the black girls, they are combative and have a combative history. They should be treated as the terrorist and domestic enemy they are, and I am 100% behind their prosecution.

motivatedshi

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 12:32 p.m.

Well said MR ROCK

MrRock

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 12:16 p.m.

I'm not sure that expelling these trouble-makers will better the long term situation. This group (and their parents) are filled with anger and resentment about their lot in life and expelling them just reinforces their warped perceptions. They see themselves as victims of society and lash out based on their perceptions (I mean the parents). (I was stabbed over 20 years ago by a large group of youths at an Ann Arbor fireworks which had a racial component so this is not a new phenomenon.) This group and their parents should be required to perform community service with the Islamic people to build understandings. I hope the judge holds the parents as partially responsible for their minor children. I hear about this group of kids and their parent(s) are a key root cause to their behavior because they make excuses for their behaviors.

schoolsmuse

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 10:12 a.m.

I hope the school district will be more forthcoming about exactly what they are doing to make kids feel safe at school and on buses; how they address issues of violence and prejudice; and what, if any, policy reviews regarding transportation and/or violence are going on.

David Jesse

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 9:09 a.m.

A brief update: District spokeswoman Liz Margolis confirmed today that the initial argument on the bus started between two girls - the victim and one other. A group of boys became involved then at the bus stop, Margolis said.

dotdash

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:59 a.m.

This issue gets to the heart of how a community enforces its values -- maybe that is why it is so hotly discussed. Clearly, the contracts that the high schools, middle schools and elementary schools ask students and parents to sign are attempts to articulate the values of the community. This event is so shocking because the students seem (as far as we can tell from the info available) to have betrayed those values. The question for the community is how to get everyone (adolescents included) to sign on to our basic beliefs about the rights of others?

An

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:58 a.m.

My daughter told me yesterday that the police follow her bus every afternoon now. She rides a different bus in the morning.

Patrick Haggood

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:50 a.m.

I guess I should correct liekkio's comment about me and the freep, but geez who reads comments back that far?

Steffetta

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:49 a.m.

Is it really true that it was 5 BOYS beating up one girl? I can't believe that isn't the headline. I agree with an earlier comment that said when people fight, they come out with the racial slurs because they're lazy and have little imagination. Maybe they ripped of her hijab because they hated her and wanted to humiliate her. I've seen girls have their shirts ripped off in fights for the same reason. I don't know why they hated this girl, so I can't say if it was truly because she was Arab/Muslim. I think, in general, that hate crime legislation is too broad. In any event, they should be punished severely for beating up a young woman. What brutes!

Duane Collicott

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:47 a.m.

Seen this morning... a van with a Forsythe bumper sticker turning into the complex form the North (an understandably-concerned parent driving a kid to school instead of putting him on the bus?) and a police car leaving the complex after the bus had been there (probably just keeping an eye on the bus stop activities.)

pegret

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:14 a.m.

Matc makes an excellent point. An assault on a child should be the main concern. Letter from the school was a big nothing. Unfortunate that the mother of the alleged 'perp' was even given a forum on the news. It will be interesting to see what (if any) action is taken once the facts become known...if they ever do, that is.

RobRoy

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 8:01 a.m.

What a shameful way to start the school year. Frankly, I dont care who started it. It should have never escalated to being so violent that someone needed stitches. Sad, sad, sad, sad. I hope the girl is ok.

An

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 7:45 a.m.

@Debbie From the Forsythe Middle School handbook: Harassment/Bullying: Forsythe has a Zero Tolerance for any type of harassment including gender, sexual orientation, racial, ethnic or religious. Bullying will not be tolerated. Students who engage in bullying will be disciplined according to the Rights & Responsibility Handbook, which is mailed home to parents each school year. Students should report bullying incidents to adults. From the Ann Arbor Public Schools Parent/Student Handbook: Anti-Bullying Policy A student has a right to participate in all district activities without being subjected to conduct that is discriminatory, humiliating, demeaning, offensive or embarrassing. Harassment refers to sexual harassment, as well as ethnic, religious and general harassment. Sexual Harassment includes an unwelcome sexual advance or sexual behavior, including verbal behavior, (I) that is tied to a student's educational benefits, opportunities or performance; or a student's physical or psychological well-being; (2) that substantially interferes (or will substantially interfere) with a student's educational benefits, opportunities or performance; or a student's physical or psychological well-being; or (3) that is intimidating to the student. Furthermore, Sexual Harassment consists of unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, sexually motivated physical conduct, or other verbal or physical conduct or communication that has the purpose or effect of substantially or unreasonable interfering with an individual's education or creating an intimidating, hostile or offensive educational or social environment on school property or at any school sponsored or related event or activity. Sexual harassment may include but is not limited to: Sexual harassment may include but is not limited to: Verbal harassment or abuse Subtle pressure for sexual activity Inappropriate patting or pinching Intentional brushing against another persons body Any sexually motivated, unwelcome touching Obscene gesture Written or graphic harassment or abuse Ethnic Intimidation and Harassment includes slurs, verbal references, gestures and other behavior which tends to demean, humiliate, intimidate and/or threaten others on the basis of race, ethnic group or nationality. Religious and General Harassment includes slurs, verbal references, gestures, or other behavior which tends to demean, humiliate, intimidate and/or threaten others on the basis of creed, religion, or personal characteristics. A student shall not engage in unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors or other verbal or physical conduct relating to a person's sex, race, color, national origin, religion, height, weight, marital status, sexual orientation, or disability (e.g., sexual or racial comments, threats, or insults, unwanted sexual touching, etc.) A student should report incidences of harassment to the building administrator with any supportive evidence that is available.The principal will examine the evidence and, if merited, speak directly to the person alleged to have harassed the complainant. If proven, the building administrator will: Have the offender sign a contract regarding appropriate behavior toward the complainant, and/or Refer the offender to an outside agency, and/or Initiate suspension/expulsion procedures This disciplinary action should be commensurate with the behavior and the developmental level of the student. The Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education prohibits acts of harassment or bullying. The board of education has determined that a safe and civil environment in school is necessary for students to learn and achieve high academic standards. Harassment or bullying, like other disruptive or violent behaviors, is conduct that disrupts both a students ability to learn and a schools ability to educate its students in a safe environment. Demonstration of appropriate behavior, treating others with civility and respect, and refusing to tolerate harassment or bullying is expected of administrators, faculty, staff, and volunteers to provide positive examples for student behavior. Harassment or bullying is any gesture or written, verbal, graphic, or physical act (including electronically transmitted acts i.e. internet, cell phone, personal digital assistant (pda), or wireless hand held device) that is reasonably perceived as being motivated either by an actual or perceived characteristic, such as race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression; or a mental, physical, or sensory disability or impairment; or by any other distinguishing characteristic. Such behavior is considered harassment or bullying whether it takes place on or off school property, at any school-sponsored function, or in a school vehicle. Harassment is conduct that meets all of the following criteria: is directed at one or more pupils substantially interfe res with educational opportunities, benefits, or programs of one or more pupils; adversely affects the ability of a pupil to participate in or benefit from the school districts educational programs or activities because the conduct, as reason ably perceived by the pupil, is so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive as to have this effect; and, is based on a pupils actual or perceived distinguishing characteristic (see above), or is based on an association with another person who is perceived to have any of these characteristics. Bullying is conduct that meets all of the following criteria: is directed at one or more pupils substantially interfe res with educational opportunities, benefits, or programs of one or more pupils; adversely affects the ability of a pupil to participate in or benefit from the school districts educational programs or activities because the conduct, as reason ably perceived by the pupil, is so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive as to have this effect; and, is based on a pupils actual or perceived distinguishing characteristic (see above), or is based on an association with another person who is perceived to have any of these characteristics. When an incident occurs appropriate action will be taken by school personnel in a timely manner. From Skyline's Handbook: 4. Harassment: Verbal, Personal, and SexualAll reported incidents of harassment are investigated pursuant to Board of Education policies regarding harassment. Be reminded that harassment includes many behaviors like bullying, teasing, unwelcome comments, threats of any kind, and even unwanted attention. Victims of harassment must report offenses to administrators, teachers, or other school staff for investigation and possible action. The Ann Arbor Police Department may be notified depending upon the severity of the incident. The possession of or the rendering of drawings, paintings, or other such representations of inappropriate conduct, situations, or items, including gang-related depictions, is prohibited and can also lead to disciplinary action. Inappropriate voicemails, text messages, and other direct or indirect communication can also be considered harassment. Sadly, bullying is not always just the kids. I know an incident where, for an entire school year, a teacher was allowed to bully a second grader. She called him "stupid" and "Dumb" and encouraged the other children in the class room to do the same. If they can't even keep their TEACHERS from bullying, how will they keep the kids from bullying each other on the bus?

motivatedshi

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 7:26 a.m.

to Jason: What kind og ignorant comment was that??? "If she was conserned with women rights then she wouldnt be a muslim???" Its people like you who fuel to the fire of hate and ignorance. Actually Islam is a beautiful religion which grant women,in many ways, more rights than men! Try to actually educate yourself, and dont base your veiw of a religion on what the media feeds you about extremists who are considered hyprocrites by most of the muslim world. Please I really reccommend you actually read about the religion and what kind of rights it gives women rather than spit out hateful comments like that. Shame on you

DebbieDora2

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 7 a.m.

Mr.Jesse Could you please put a link up to the Bully contract from AAPS link for everyone to read. It is quite specific. The parent/ as well as the student must sign this contract.It is discussed in assembly the first day. That was the problem when my son was bullied not once but the same young boy time after time. My son's chin was split a permanent tooth knocked out and in the report " just a baby tooth knocked out" I was not called blood drawn.I would of had his chin stitched. Was handed a letter upon pick up from the principle. A LETTER.After 2 hours it is to late to stitch I had to make the police report. If you speak with the police you will find the schools do not even follow their policy. No matter what age police are to be called when blood involved of that level of violence. I saw other parents that day at AAPD because the schools let this go on. I am thankful my son is no longer enrolled.I do not think people will understand unless it is their children.The emotional wounds and scars left it is 8 months later and he still suffers.I do not think the school cares even know Brian the school psychologist acted as if he did.People will not understand the emotional term oil these children go through.I think all 15 of the kids that partaked should be expelled period. They all were involved none of them did anything but egg it on more. No one ran from the crowd and I am sure they all have cell phones did any call the police? No!This is not the first time. Since I live right there this is a common occurrence I have witnessed over and over. I am proud of my son he followed the rules. After so any times the same boy whom by the way received such special privilege's form Mrs Jaeger.The bully's are glorified. The kids that follow the rules are ousted. Please post AAPS rules and regulations and the contract that is suppose to be followed by our schools/students/parents/personnel! 18 kids were removed for violence alone at Haisley. This is an on going issue that even if you watched the board meeting from April, May 2009 he walks out of meeting when PTO, parents confronts the issue on violence.IT is time to "STOP THE VIOLENCE" In our schools. Thank you

mayeye

Fri, Sep 11, 2009 : 6:03 a.m.

I have lived in the neighborhood for many years and watched these kids grow up. The parents of the attackers always defend these bullies as the mother did on the news, the girl who I am sure was one of the ring leaders admited that she was "pushed" then the mother says "she had to do what she had to do" give me a break, six stiches = a "push". The same kids have told my son that they will not play with him because of his color. My son has been attacked by them and they run in a mob. These kids are mean racist and it comes from thier parents. I can only hope that the young woman knows that the majority of this community does not share those belief systems and that she will be ok emotionally.

leonkennedy74

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:17 p.m.

The fact is that this is a hate crime. I attend Skyline (sophmore) and this is unbelievable. It needs to be taken to court and have serious legal discipline involved in this. This is Ann Arbor, not the boondocks of southern Georgia. No one in this town should stand for this kind of racially charged behavior. I know I won't; not here or anywhere else in the world that I choose to live. To the family of the victims, our hearts go out to you and your loved ones. We wish a safe recovery and a welcome return. -Mr. Perrin

matc

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:05 p.m.

Joseph- The victim's concern with or lack of concern for gender bias or discrimination and/or her religion is not material to my point. (Are we only concerned with victims who agree with us? Of course not.) My point is that the story is not considered important to report until a group expresses concern about a hate crime and the high school (and the newspaper) seek to downplay the incident because it has to do with a "school conflict" and not an attack on the girl. Five or six boys attacking a lone girl is scary enough without having the "authorities" downplay the event.

halflight

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:45 p.m.

liekkio wrote: halflight, how does one girl start a fight with five teens?. I didn't say that happened. What I will say is that the writer at the Freep published this story on the "front page" at 7:30 last night, with only a spokesperson from CAIR as a source. The original Freep story reported that the girl was attacked in the bus and then dragged into a house, making it sound like the AAPS bus driver did nothing. The story was then edited about 10:00 last night to say that the police "confirmed" the attack. Of course, the police didn't confirm it, because they have an ongoing investigation. So what we had in the Freep is one side of a story, filtered through CAIR, who is hardly known as an objective reporter of facts. It's an advocacy group. The fact that CAIR has then distributed press releases to different national press agencies, without letting the schools and the police complete an investigation, tells me that CAIR isn't to be trusted. CAIR is pushing an agenda, and truth is a secondary concern.. I thought, and still think, that the Freep did a shoddy job of reporting this incident. In contrast, the staff at AnnArbor.com waited until today, when they could speak to Liz Margolis and the police department, and give the readers a fuller understanding of what is known (there was a fight) and what isn't yet known (what caused the fight and who was at fault). All that we have now is accusations. Let the schools and the police follow their investigative procedures before we start calling anything a "hate crime" and deciding who's guilty.. DagnyJ wrote:. With all due-respect HALFLIGHT, if you believe that Freep was irresponsible in their reporting, why would you promote said story by posting their link?. 1. When I read the original story, I thought it poorly sourced--basically, a story written by CAIR and published by the Freep.. 2. I thought the story, as originally written by the Freep, was unlikely. I know AAPS bus drivers, and they don't permit violence on buses, and they certainly don't stand by and watch a girl get dragged into a house.. 3. I thought, and still think, that CAIR is sensationalizing the story without regard to the truth of the matter, or to its impact on the community of Ann Arbor, and the Freep is a willing participant through its unprofessional journalism.. On the other hand, the AnnArbor.com staff waited until they could get comments from the school and the police, didn't mischaracterize what the police said, and has provided ongoing updates as real information becomes available. As far as I can see, both the AAPS and police are handling the situation appropriately--they investigate, not declare guilt and then investigate.. So far, the AAPS, the AA police and AnnArbor.com have done the community proud. The Freep, on the other hand, gets a big raspberry for being a mouthpiece for CAIR's manufactured hysteria.

matc

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:44 p.m.

From the letter to parents- "We are cooperating with the Ann Arbor Police Department who are also investigating this incident as it continued into the neighborhood. It is our goal to make sure that such isolated incidence of conflict among our students does not occur" This letter makes my point- it is "only a school conflict" that "continued into the neighborhood"- not an assault on a girl by a group of boys. Race seems to trump gender every time.

Polaris

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:44 p.m.

I think everyone could do to observe this from an objective viewpoint. It could be a hate crime. It could be stupid teenagers. The problem is that it also is not only racism but, religious persecution. I would like to remind people of the 1st amendment. You know, the one that says "Freedom to practice your own religion". Pulling off a Muslim person's hijab can be considered for Christians tearing a symbol of the holy cross from their person. I don't know if the kids were aware of this or not, but the school board needs to address its students about the issue of racism and religious persecution.

David Jesse

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:31 p.m.

FYI - Skyline High School Principal Sulura Jackson sent this e-mail tonight to parents: Update on Skyline High School: Dear Skyline Parents and Guardians: I am writing to update you on an incident that occurred at the bus stop on Hollywood and N. Maple on Tuesday, September 8, 2009. We have conducted a complete investigation into this matter, appropriate disciplinary measures have been taken and conflict resolution efforts have begun. We are cooperating with the Ann Arbor Police Department who are also investigating this incident as it continued into the neighborhood. It is our goal to make sure that such isolated incidence of conflict among our students does not occur. We will continue to stress the importance of building relationships and respect for self and others, personal integrity and the value of diversity in our school community. If you have any questions please let me know. Sincerely, Sulura W. Jackson Principal

Ruth Kraut

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:30 p.m.

John Conyers has a bill in Congress that (in answer to Duane's question) defines a hate crime as bigotry with violence. Or, as the ACLU puts it, it "punishes only the conduct of intentionally selecting another person for violence because of that persons race, color, national origin, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability." In other words, Duane, if you were attacked because of one of those classes (i.e. because you were Black, or Muslim, or Iraqi) that would be a hate crime, but it is the combination of bigotry and violence that makes it a hate crime.

matc

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:13 p.m.

To the paper- why is the story about the charges by the American-Islamic Association regarding a hate crime, and not about a 16 year old girl being assaulted by 5-7 teen-age boys? A group of boys assaulting a lone girl is a crime, regardless of race or religion. A crime against a girl is not considered news, but charges of a hate crime engender all sorts of feelings and outrage. Or is it now acceptable for boys to attack girls as long as there is/was some provocation ("boys will be boys") and it happens in the context of school (just a school argument that got out hand)? Why was the original story not investigated and reported?

bob

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 7:39 p.m.

i goto skyline

philosopher445

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 5:12 p.m.

i think this is so so sad we're a community of many different races and for kids that young to hate someone or start a fight over race is disgusting and shows how bad our society is i fully agree with if the fight was started over race they should be charged with hate crimes they're clearly mature enough to start a fight and knew they would have to deal with there actions so i hope they get the punishment they deserve and not a "there young they didnt know better" punishment that ann arbor is known for giving out

darthzero

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 4:57 p.m.

I think hate crime charges should definitely be considered. And as an Al Sharpton supporter, I agree with those of you who say that he should come here and make some noise about this incident. Sure we can say that it was just a fight and simply suspend or expel the attackers, but that does nothing to address the obvious racial overtones of the attack. Yes these were more than likely dumb kids with dumb, busy, or absent parents; kids without guidance or with the wrong kind of guidance; troublemakers we've come to know too well or hear about too much. However, when we are confronted with racial violence by anyone, we have to nip it in the bud. A lot of reader comments mention how Al Sharpton would have sped out here to A2 if it were white kids who jumped a black kid. To that, I have no choice but to agree with you. So now what? We've got blaming Al Sharpton out of the way, so now we can deal with the real issue: Teaching our kids not to hate each other for stupid reasons. Even if only the people commenting here called Skyline, called AAPS, and demanded that this issue be widened and addressed to all students, we could spur some action. Al Sharpton doesn't live here. This is our community and we should deride any violent incident. And in the case of violence motivated by race, charging someone with a hate crime shows that we won't tolerate racism from anyone, whether deep-seeded or spontaneous. Get out your bud-nippers and nip some buds..

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 3:43 p.m.

Here is the list of who I called. 1. The bus garage. I asked someone to call me back. No one ever did. 2. Forsythe Middle School. I spoke to the principal, who assured me that the situation would be handled and reminded me she would not be able to reassure me that the girl in question would not be on the bus the next day because of the girl's rights. (What about my daughter's right to a safe bus ride?) 3. Skyline High. NO ONE ANSWERED. 4. The superintendent's office. I spoke with his assistant. She was very nice but basically gave me the same line of BS that the principal of Forsythe gave me. The basic statement is that the girl who started the fight has more rights than my right to know my child will be safe on the bus. 5. Ann Arbor Housing Commission, because the incident involved people who live in their housing. (And I am not being mean about that because *I* lived in AAHC housing for 7 years...) THEY listened. They couldn't solve anything but at least they weren't giving me a line of BS about how the fight starter was more important than the other children on the bus.

Top Cat

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 3:29 p.m.

I think we all need a deep breath and a group hug.

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 3:08 p.m.

im sorry debbie, i have a hard time understanding anything you are writing, it seems like it may be important, but would you be so kind as to use punctuation? It makes a world of a difference :)

bhall

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 3:02 p.m.

Freep says Michigan Department of Civil Rights is looking into the case. Plus more details: http://www.freep.com/article/20090910/NEWS05/90910050/1320/Civil-rights-officials-examine-attack-on-Muslim-girl

DebbieDora2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:59 p.m.

An that is a very good point do you know why. One I watched the brother as I was calling for help in the situation run to N. Maple Estates what appeared to be two mothers and a small boy ran to scene. You have a point why did she get off on Hollywood Dr if the bus lets her off in front of her housing Did it begin on the bus?did it begin at school? This is an important factor why had she gotten off at this stop instead of her stop! hmmm I thought bus's were equipped with camera's these days because that appeared to be what bus 123 was doing the driver never got off the bus.the other bus sped away a female driver.There were 2 buses in t he beginning of the fight., How many people called 911 in t he 40-50 cars paralyzed. How many called the board of education. There was only one other woman that assisted. Ann Arbor Police you have a the number you are calling is disconnected.The new number is 734-794-6920. This number hung up on me it said they were busy with other people Then i tried to call detective Bureau and try to get through. its all a bunch of messages.

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:57 p.m.

@motivatedshi: I would encourage you then to give a statement to the police about the taunting of Arabs by the kids involved in the fight. The prosecutor would consider your statement in addition to those of other witnesses.. BTW - I did not say the head-gear flew off. I said pulled off. The point, again, is motivation - whether it was pulled off SOLELY because of its religious significance!

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:50 p.m.

i already knew exactly what you were going to say about things "flying off" on there own. Well let put it this way... I also work on facts and not assumptions... that is why i feel strongly about this particular case, because i have witnesses with my own eyes and ears the behavior of some of these kids envovled.... and trust me.... they taunt arabs, and they are very loud about it.

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:43 p.m.

@motivatedshi: I do not work on assumptions. I work on facts and evidence.. What evidence do have that she was called a "dirty arab" except the press release of an Arab-American advocacy group?. What evidence do you have that the so-called religious head-gear was pulled off because of its religious significance as opposed to a side-consequence of people fighting.. What if "A" called "B" a "dirty African-American", "B" called "A" a "dirty Arab", fight breaks out, people pull hair, clothes, whatever they can get their hands on. Bottomline, we do not know details of what happened and more importantly, we do not know the motivation behind the actions of the teenagers. Let the police complete their investigation and legal process take its course.

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:36 p.m.

oh and just so you know, those head scarfs don't come off so easy, they are pinned and tied pretty cleverly, i have many muslim friends... so the scarf didn't just slip off in the commotion.. there was a direct motivation to pull that thing off of her!

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:36 p.m.

@motivatedshi: The issue is why did what motivated the fight in the first place, not what went on during the heat of battle. If the motivation was to get a "dirty Arab" - (any vunerable one will do), then, I suppose the thought police would prosicute it as a hate crime. If something else trigger the attack and the head dress etc. was part of the fight - then, not so clear. This, IMO is the problem with the whole hate crime law. BTW, Last time I checked, I thought assult and battery as well as kidnapping was against the law. Why not go with what you can prove?

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:29 p.m.

@geewiz: Shallow reasoning? If it looks like a duck, quaks like a duck, and swims like a duck... then sorry to break it to you.... its most likely a duck... when someone calls some one a "dirty arab" beats them up, and pulls off a religious covering... there is no other word to describe it other than hate crim... just curious... what would you call this?

emu2009

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:29 p.m.

@nici82 I looked at your article and this is what I have to say, HATE is a learned behavior. Yes, children see a difference in skin color because that is obvious to them. However, their opinions of people with a different skin color tend to come from their parents and other significant people in their lives. My children are not racist and because I am not and have never been, they most likely never will be either. I don't think there is a truly unbiased, scientific way to determine if children 6 and younger are racist because all they know in life is what their parents have shown them. Most likely, the kids involved in this incident have learned from their parents to behave this way, both to use violence to solve a problem and to use racial slurs. I promise you this though, no single human being is born a racist.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:28 p.m.

@geewhiz I agree....i just want better for my child & our world! THere's bigger fish to fry than the color of skin! We all bleed the same!

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:25 p.m.

@motivatedshi: Shallow reasoning if I have ever seen one.

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:24 p.m.

Dear Eye Heart, What I meant by that is that Im not in the group of bloggers who are complaining about "if it was a black kid then al sharpton would be alll over it.....blah blah blah..." I have no bias... my husband is 100% White... so sorry to let you know that your attempt at analyzing my writing style is very incorrect. Have a nice day :)

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:21 p.m.

@BeezyB: I was only pulling your leg. I do share your concern about racism and I can imagine that you have gone through a lot dating people of a different race.. I do not believe our society will ever be color-blind. Human beings naturally gravitate and share bonds with people they have something in common with. All we do as a society is to educate the young ones about the impact of racism and impose legal sanctions in provable cases of racism. However, that is not going to stop people from thinking a certain way.. You also do not want to belittle racism by crying wolf all the time.

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:18 p.m.

motivatedshi said: "by the way im not arab, im not black, and im not white... so no biasness coming from me" Wow - Just curious, what is the race that by your definition cannot have bias? Also, it appears from your phraseing that all whites must have bias, even though, as in this case, no whites are involved. I guess, based on your comments, I would suggest you have a bias against white people.

LBH

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:17 p.m.

I would like to know how zack66 manages to blame bad behavior of children on public education? "values" need to be taught/instilled by parents and/or family. Do not expect schools to do the work of parents. Rules of conduct while students are in school are enforced to attempt to assure that there is a safe and, hopefully, productive environment. Also, while I agree to some extent with Joseph I also feel that if people wish to participate in discussion they should try to do that in a respectful manner. Insulting people or suggesting they take drugs to get over something you disagree with doesn't feel like it is in the spirit of reasonable public discussion, no matter how emotionally charged the topic.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:14 p.m.

@ motivatedshi Thank you....

motivatedshi

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 2:06 p.m.

These kids are obviously trouble makers, i doubt that the 16 year old muslim girl did anything to anger a group of teens who are already known in the community as trouble makers, and have very poor parental guidance.... I know this too because i have witnessed a mother of one of these kids edge her on during fights. HATE CRIME? WEll, if her head scarf wasnt pulled off then i would say no... just a bullying fight.... but lets say two black or two white kids got into a fight and one of them pulled there pants down purposely... many people would say this was a form of sexual harassment.... common people... this is a hate crime... they dragged a solo girl against her will and beat her up, didnt call her just any name, but a "dirty arab" and pulled off something she wears to represent her religion.... in what sick mind would you NOT call this a hate crime? If a muslim boy walked up to a christian kid wearing a cross, and pulled it off his neck.... that would be a hate crime too.... keep it honest with your selves... by the way im not arab, im not black, and im not white... so no biasness coming from me

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:55 p.m.

@geewhiz No, i dont hate white men....I dont hate anyone,However I DO not like racism at all! it sickens me.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:53 p.m.

@geewhiz No, i dont hate white men....I dont hate anyone,However I DO not like racism at all! it sickens me.

zack66

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:24 p.m.

Typical public school students taught by union run, democratic controlled schools. Nothing has changed since the governement got involved and started the Department of Education.

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:21 p.m.

@GeeWhiz: Now that you mention it, about 75% of the people on this board are engaging in rumor mongering. The posts show up chronologically, they are not threaded, so although it may appear I was commenting on your post, I was not. In fact, I suspect we are in violent agreement on the merits of "hate crimes" and the thought police that go along with it.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:20 p.m.

Let's point out that hate crimes & bullying lead to Kids bringing guns & weapons to school!!! i.e. culombine, virginia tech, the list goes on!!!!!!!!!!!

Duane Collicott

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:15 p.m.

What about if a burn-out or bully beats up a nerd like me? And is there a statute of limitations? Can I go back and prosecute them for hate crimes retroactively? What if a nerd bets up a jock (yeah, I know, slim chance) because he hates the jock? Is that a hate crime? What if he doesn't hate him but only kinda dislikes him? Is that a kinda-dislike crime, and are there separate statues for prosecuting kinda-dislike crimes? No, I'm not just being ridiculous. I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of the concept of hate crimes.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:14 p.m.

@ AN, yes this has been ONGOING for a very long time, a year mayb eeven more! @ geewhiz YES, troubled teens with no parental guidance! its sad all the way around....no one wins when our children are fighting, for whatever reason, whether, big, skinny, poor, ugly, handicapped, arab.asian, black or white...no one wins! It's sad. HAve you have ever personally experienced racism??? I have dated african americans my whole life....and let me tell you, "my so called "race" wasnt so friendly or standing with open arms. INCLUDING my own family. SO i can use my judgement when it comes to racial discrimination.

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:12 p.m.

EyeHeartA2, who is rumor mongering?

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:11 p.m.

@An: That is the difference between you and I. You automatically assumed that the skinny kids beat up the fat kid SOLELY because he was fat. I only gave a hypothetical description of an event and you made additional assumptions about motivation.. People fight all the time for a variety of reasons. Motivation is crucial to proving hate crime cases and we do not have an inkling of the motivation of the teenagers involved in this fight. All we have is a description of the racial/ethnic identities of people involved in the fight and people are jumping to pre-conceived conclusions.

Ann Arbor Resident

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:11 p.m.

I just love how everyone on this forum has already convicted or let off the suspects/victims in this case. You are basing your judgements from an advocacy group statement, sparse details from the Ann Arbor Police (as appropriate with an on-going investigation), unsubstaintated news reports and comments from "eye witnesses" that have not been corroborated or tested in court. These are serious charges. We should all be focused on getting facts correctly and letting law enforcement conduct their investigation(s) before we convict anyone.

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:09 p.m.

Here is the definition from the Committee for State Security: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html At least we are not sent to prison for rumor mongering.....yet. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090907/wl_nm/us_china_xinjiang_36

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1:03 p.m.

Yes, IMO, a kid being beat up for being "fat" (or for being "skinny") would still constitute a hate crime.

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 1 p.m.

@BeezyB: What happens if skinny teens tease and beat up a fat kid - Would that qualify as a hate crime?. You have bad kids do bad stuff all the time. What you are trying to do is ascribe a MOTIVE for the fight - "they messed with her simply because she was an Arab that wore a hijab". I do not know the motives of the kids but from you description, they are troubled teenagers!

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:55 p.m.

I'd rather not post the bus number. It's the Ann Arbor School District bus, not the AATA bus.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:53 p.m.

@ geewhiz I guess you arent understanding that my daughter rides this bus! She witness the incident. She knows these kids are in CONSTANT trouble and that they mess with the arab americans all the time! I have ALSO witnessed the mother of one of the african american kids that she ENCOURAGES her SON to fight with them. I've heard it from her mouth to my ear!! So IDK geewhiz i guess my common sense REASSURES me that once again these kids are still terrorizing the arab americans that live very close to them. This is an ongoing problem.

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:51 p.m.

It is also my understanding that the incident has been ongoing within the community the two girls live in for a while now. Something that happened within their neighborhood got dragged to school/bus. I was 100% NOT impressed with the way the school district handled my calls about my concerns about the safety of the children on the bus, but in a way, I guess it's not the school's issue.

Duane Collicott

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:49 p.m.

What are the route numbers of the buses involved?

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:46 p.m.

@BeezyB: What we have is an argument that initially started between one African-American girl and one Arab girl (as per the comment from An). We do know what started the fight. Why do you ASSUME that it was "hate"-related? Is it because one of the parties to the fight was Arab?. We get similar stories all the time. If whites attack blacks, Al Sharpton and others will scream racism without knowing the details.. I personally do not pre-judge cases. I want to have all the facts and evidence before me. There is also a higher legal threshold for a crime to be classified as a hate crime.

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:37 p.m.

@ gee whiz I did not witness this hate crime, however I have witnessed many hate crimes in my years. My daughter rides this bus & knows the kids that did this to these arab american children. She was friends with one of the african american children at one time til I started WITNESSING how these kids and their parents did not like the arab american kids/ or parents. ANd how they treated them. This has been goin on for a very long time with the kids. My daughter is biracial by the way and i am a caucasian woman, I know racism when i see it.OR HEAR IT!

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:35 p.m.

The original incident, per the children I spoke to that were on the bus, involved one Arabic girl and one African American girl. One child is new to the community and the other is a child who had been in trouble last year on the bus. It's a hate crime. Racism is wrong. Period. It also is not only defined as being only against African Americans...racism is defined as: racism /reszm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA Use racism in a Sentence See web results for racism See images of racism noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. (definition obtained from www.dictionary.com).

mrshicks1223

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:31 p.m.

What kills me is that there is so many comments back and forth about whether or not these kids should be charged with a hate crime. If this story was 5-6 (or however many) white boys jumping on an African-American girl...all hell would break loose AND the charges would not be a question...a hate crime. There wouldn't be all this debate. Let's call it what it is...a hate crime. Period. It's too bad the Islamic community as a whole doesn't have an "Al Sharpton" to come running to draw attention to this matter. He'd be AAALLLLLL over this. My opinion...they shouldn't be allowed back in school. It's not like they're being productive anyway.

Suzy Sherman

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:30 p.m.

A comment was removed twice because it violated our community posting guidelines, which prohibits swearing and masked swearing.

Eric P

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 12:18 p.m.

forget the hate crime, last time I checked taking some against their will was Kidnapping and a federal crime. Also as a product of the AAPS, I also know that keeping your hands to yourself is a major lesson that is taught over and over. Depending where the suspects touched her while kidnapping her they could also be looking at CSC 4 charges.

bhall

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:56 a.m.

Interesting that annarbor.com would downplay this incident with an unassuming lead sentence. Actually, you've got to read half of the story to know why the Islamic advocacy group would even get involved.

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:55 a.m.

Don't worry, never in a million years will an African American kid get charged with a racist hate crime.

An

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:39 a.m.

My daughter rides the bus that both the attacker and the person attacking ride. My daughter is now afraid to ride the bus. When I tried to talk to school officials I was assured that the "students would be dealt with appropriately." What is "appropriate"? Why did my 13 year old daughter, along with many other children (elementary children from the Open school ride that bus, as do middle school students from Forsythe and 9th and 10th graders from Skyline) have to put up with this? Something else to consider...racism is something that is passed from the parent to the child...

salineguy

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:31 a.m.

Let the cops sort it out (the cops, not the school), that's their job. If the investigation leads to a hate crime, so be it. If it leads to charges for assault or some other charge, so be it. From the little bit of information available, it's hard to tell what was behind the violence. The reported... dragged her to a nearby home, and inflicted injuries that required six stitches on her face... is a disturbing piece of information, however.

GeeWhiz

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 11:22 a.m.

The Freep report based strictly on statements by the Arab-American congress sensationalizes the story by suggesting that a gang of 5-6 African-Americans beat up on a single, helpless Arab girl because of her race, dragged her to some house, tore her "head gear" off, etc. Later in the story, they mention that her brother tried to help out. Wasn't he on the bus with her or when they were "dragging" her somewhere?. I do not have details of the fight but what we have is a fight between two different groups of students. Hate crime?, NOT!

BeezyB

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:56 a.m.

I would like to say I am completly disgusted with all these hate crimes! Its sad that a little girl had to be tormented like that by getting her Head wrap torn off. Further more, these kids should all be charged. THEY are constantly in trouble, causing trouble, and looking for trouble. My daughter rides this bus and let me tell you these kids parents that cause all these problems continue to allow their children to act like this. I removed my daughter from this group of people because there's no discipline or boundries whatsoever!! frankly whatever the facts are, it doesnt matter, people's right are being violated and these children along with our children our all at risk to the same violence. I have always loved ann arbor for the diversity, we CANNOT let anyone come and try to label it a "racist" community against any race!!! I hope thse kids that continue to get tormented find peace where they can.

David Jesse

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:54 a.m.

A note: The Ann Arbor police aren't releasing any details other than it happened around 3:30 p.m., it was on the street and they are investigating. They will not tell us how many people were involved or any other details.

Duane Collicott

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:45 a.m.

Perhaps some involved, especially the CAIR people, should wait for details to arise instead of reacting on emotional grounds to the first reports, which are often emotionally-charged themselves. The whole concept of hate crimes is ridiculous, divisive and often racist. If there were assaults, charge the kids with assault. If there were school rules broken with the verbal parts of it, take action according to the AAPS discipline policy. emu2009, Ed often posts things he finds that are related to the story for us to review as we wish, which I think is very useful. I've never seen him try to make a point with it.

Barb

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:36 a.m.

This is hate, pure and simple - seems Hate Crime charges are totally appropriate based on the info here.

lumberg48108

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:25 a.m.

Who doesn't hurl insults during an arguement? Racial insults are just the easiest (and lazy) insults to hurl when mad... Hate crime? Federal Charges? Over a school fight? We need to get a grip... the kids need to be suspended; like any other situation would dictate!

emu2009

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10:19 a.m.

Mr. Vlelmetti, What exactly is the point you are trying to make with the link to the PR Newswire article?

DagnyJ

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 10 a.m.

Debbie, it's called a kippah or yarmulke. Yakima is a roofrack for cars.

Billy

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:56 a.m.

Debbie....not sure what you're trying to say, that was a whole lot of ramblin' there. I question the validity of most of what you said as your personal experience being that you claim your son wears a "Yakima." I find it hard to believe anyone who practices Judaism would not know how to spell Yarmulke. It's not that I'm picking on spelling, it's that it sounds more like you just told a grandiose story thats more fiction than fact. Just so you know, all that's going to do is hurt this situation. The last thing this girl's side needs is to have her "witnesses" making things up.

emu2009

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:41 a.m.

Debbie, Most kids don't have concept of color until someone tells them there is a difference. If you raised him to not know color lines then more than likely he will keep that mentality. My children also didn't know differences in race until they were in elementary school. My youngest would say african americans were brown, she was tan (she is asian and caucasian) and that I was white. That's all she knew and yet even though she knows different terms now she is still very open to being friends with all races as are my other children. My point to you is to keep doing what you are doing at home and take situations like this as a teaching opportunity with your children.

emu2009

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:34 a.m.

I agree with Billy, the cause of the fight hasn't been listed here. That's not to say that this girl deserved to be attacked but who is to say she didn't say equally offensive things as we all now kids do. Alan, its real easy to have a fight with that many kids, its called jumping on the bandwagon, happens all the time.

DebbieDora2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:33 a.m.

Mr. Jesse I reported this crime to you and you deleted me for saying it was inappropriate! Good Day and told me to quit using capitalization. I will come forward as a witness. Capitalization is considered yelling I am frustrated that. Tell the FBI I am one other out of 50 cars held up assisted no one esle cared or wanted to get involved.

DebbieDora2

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:29 a.m.

I witnessed this and so did my 6 year old whom I told to get in the house and call police. I called AAPS. The one bus driver drove off as one stayed behind it was more around 15 students.I was saddened. I try to do everything I could. I had my dog with me. One women out of 50 cars reacted with me. One young white male trying to assist was thrown INTO N. maple traffic.This is violence this happened to my 6 year old son and they did nothing. They made him feel he was at FAULT.Not allowed to eat in the cafeteria while the bully ran free might as well put a burger king crown on his head. It did not happen once it happened 13 times. My son followed the rules. Race and violence are taught in our public school systems. When blood is drawn the police are to be called did the bus driver called. My son was bullied because had his Yakima under his hat during Roshashanna. I believed that is how it began. Then he was taken in the bathroom called cracker, white boy and if my son had done this Al Sharpton would of been here!I reported this to Mr. Jesse yesterday and e deleted my comments when I talked about violence. Well what do you have to say for yourself today Mr. Jesse from Ann arbor.com. The first day of school. I cried. She had her Hijab ripped from her that is one of the most racially offensive act you could commit on a young woman. For the young black male I know your face as your proudly took as your wanna be gold chain and man punched her.Shameful and get your numbers correct at least the Ann Arbor Police finally arrived as they scattered down Hollywood Drive. Shameful I would like to meet the people that raised with low life human being they are as much at fault. All students sign and attend an assembly about this. They broke the contract. Sp what now Mr. Roberts What now. This one you can shove under the rug like the rest. You gonna expell the girl? The story is wrong she drove off. She didn't stay behind bus 123 did! The story is just wrong all lies and wrong. I witnessed it from start to finish.It was more like 12-14 out of 20 involved. her brother ran to get the mother whom frantically ran to her with her little 2-3 year old son. I cried. Te AAPS got caught this time and the Principals, Mr. Roberts can't walk away from this one like they did the other 18 abused children. Your caught and had you of called the police like your rules state. so I did your job for free these children are forever damaged. They trusted their teachers, bus drivers, school nurse, school psychologist and you let these little children, young children down. You entrust your children lives with these so called up held citizens our school officials and?????????They have endangered our children lives forever tarnished. Shame on you

Alan Goldsmith

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:21 a.m.

David, you are correct (on rereading both articles). I should have said there were additional details in the Freep piece that weren't in the annarbor.com article (and vice versa). The race of the group that made the attack (since it is being called a hate crime, that fact should be important to the story) and that the the FBI had been contacted to investigate the incident as a hate crime.

liekkio

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:17 a.m.

Patrick Haggood, what exactly do you find unreasonable in the Free Press coverage of this incident? halflight, how does one girl start a fight with five teens?

Alan Goldsmith

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:15 a.m.

Is there a way to link to the actual police report? Ann Arbor Police Case #09-7087

David Jesse

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:11 a.m.

Alan: Actually we've got more details than the Freep, who didn't even talk to the school district.

Alan Goldsmith

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 9:10 a.m.

It appears the Freep has a lot more of the details.

halflight

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:58 a.m.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to sources and reporting this in a responsible manner, unlike the Free Press. http://www.freep.com/article/20090910/NEWS05/909100585/1007/Cops--Girl-suffered-beating-and-slurs

Patrick Haggood

Thu, Sep 10, 2009 : 8:50 a.m.

It sounds like five-seven students are looking to start their school year with expulsions. I hope the young woman is okay.