Case of Julea Ward, kicked out of EMU program for declining to counsel gay client, set for trial
The case of a former Eastern Michigan University student kicked out of a counseling program after declining to counsel a gay client is scheduled for trial next month, the Detroit Free Press reported.
Julea Ward at Eastern Michigan University.
Photo courtesy of ADF
EMU said Ward had violated the American Counseling Association’s code of ethics, which the university’s counseling program follows.
Ward sued EMU in 2009, but lost in the lower courts. Ward and her attorneys, the Alliance Defense Fund, a legal organization that works to uphold the rights of religious college students and faculty, appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth District.
A three-judge panel of the court in January ruled a jury could conclude the university used the code of ethics "as a pretext for punishing Ward’s religious views and speech." EMU denies any bias.
Lawyers argued in court Monday about who should get to testify in the case, the Free Press reported. The judge sided with EMU in a dispute about whether experts on the ACA’s code should be allowed to testify. The judge said they could.
Comments
BhavanaJagat
Sun, Sep 16, 2012 : 3:52 a.m.
Thank you Cathy for proving that Ms. Julea Ward is a liberal Christian. I would add that she has a mind of her own and has the ability to discern good from bad, and right from wrong.
Cathy
Fri, Sep 14, 2012 : 12:13 a.m.
I think I would want to make sure that this young lady is sincere in her Christian beliefs before judging her actions. The Bible does indeed condemn homosexuality, at least between men (Leviticus 18:23). The Bible also indicates that anyone who works on the Sabbath shall be put to death (Exodus 31:15). Does Ms. Ward condemn those who work on the Sabbath? Moreover the Bible condemns eating pork (Leviticus 11:7). Does Ms. Ward eat bacon or ham? The Bible states that all houses should have parapets (Deuteronomy 22:8). Does Ms. Ward live in a house without a parapet? The Bible orders priests who have sinned to give a sin offering to the Lord by slaughtering a young bull (Leviticus 4:1-12). Has her pastor ever slaughtered a young bull for his transgressions? The Bible demands that a woman whose husband dies must marry his brother (Deuteronomy 25:5). Is Ms. Ward willing to do that? You get the idea. If Ms. Ward does not in fact live up to all (or even most) of the many rules laid out in the Bible, then I have no choice but to conclude that religion is just a cover for her own personal bigotry.
BhavanaJagat
Thu, Sep 13, 2012 : 3:45 a.m.
Love thy neighbor as thyself : I support Ms. Julea Ward and I am hopeful that she would find a jury that will appreciate the reason for this litigation. When I read this Commandment from Jesus Christ, my interpretation leads me to profess Self-Love as a precondition to follow this directive to love the neighbor. Ms. Julea Ward has to profess Self-Love and has to project that Love in her professional conduct and relationships with her clients. She will not be able to respect or love herself if she ignores her own mental concepts about healthy relationships. She has recognized a conflict and had acted in a responsible manner. As a proponent of Individualism, I feel that the rights of the Individual take precedence and must not be violated. If the client reported a problem like suicidal thought, assistance must be given by directly entrusting the care of that individual to another qualified person. In this case as reported, the situation is not that of a medical emergency.
Bill Wilson
Thu, Sep 13, 2012 : 12:24 a.m.
The interesting aspect of any individual is that he/she each develops his or her own standards, and as a natural consequence, develops his or her own bias: you cannot jump into the water and avoid becoming wet. In what is being identified as a liberal notion, the idea that we could turn out counselors with one uniform set of standards is ludicrous. Ms. Ward, and any other individual, whether counselor or client, is entitled to their own standards, and are not wrong for believing as they do. Ms. Ward recognized the conflict, and correctly recommended that the client seek another counselor. And for doing the right thing, her civil rights have been violated. Hopefully, the court will bring EMU into this century, and stop nonsense like this from happening again.
1959Viking
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 9:38 p.m.
Referring a client to another counselor is you feel that they would be better served by the referral is exactly what counselors are trained to do. I hope she wins on appeal to discourage honesty in referral s would be chilling.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 4:02 p.m.
While I agree with many posters that this young woman might consider more carefully the example of Jesus before judging the client, I admire her for admitting to her bias and acting accordingly. As with anyone, a Christian must listen to her own conscience in deciding how to conduct her life. If it is difficult for her, in this one area, to provide the best possible counseling with the client, then, after having a sensitive discussion of this with the client, if the client agrees, she should find an equally good therapist who has no such bias. This seems like an admirable act. If she is rude and blunt about it, she shouldn't be a therapist at all. Any decent therapist can certainly get this to work. Were I a therapist, I would have to do the same thing to someone who came to me for help and said that he liked to kill small children. Is suggesting suicide a good form of counseling? Better to send him to another therapist. That said, I agree that it is the role of the counselor to help any client through any problems to the best solutions, avoiding judgment as much as possible.
Dog Guy
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 12:13 p.m.
EMU will seek to settle lest its cover-up of the original set-up be revealed in court. The entire plan could be code-named "Slow and Vapid."
Robert Granville
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 11:30 a.m.
I sure hope she loses.
Carole
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 10:44 a.m.
Frankly, if I were the client, I think I would say thank you and asked to be referred to someone who would be a better counsel and fit for my needs.
clownfish
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 1:07 p.m.
I would be upset that the alleged "counselor" passed judgment on me before a session concluded. Not only odes it appear to violate the code of ethics she agreed to, it violates her belief system Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. The Christ gave solace to ALL, whores, the ill, lepers and sinners.
YpsiVeteran
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 12:10 a.m.
I have another question for everyone arguing on behalf of female....has every Christian therapist since the beginning of the science been in "violation" of their beliefs? How did all the devout people of all stripes currently in practice manage to get their credentials and/or licenses? Are all of you arguing that the people who defended Timothy McVeigh are pro-murder and pro-terrorism? Even a Catholic PRIEST will hear the final confession of a death row convict. Is he "violating his beliefs"?
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:41 p.m.
This woman deserved to be kicked out of the program. From the information reported in previous stories about his, she didn't even wait to see what his issue was before refusing to see him. What if he had a grief issue, or a roommate dispute, or a fear of heights, or was struggling with depression. Of what possible bearing is his sexuality on any of those problems. This woman is the worst kind of closed-minded bigot there is. She could have easily seen the student, determined his issue, then tactfully referred him to someone better suited to his issue, if she felt the need. Her alleged "beliefs" would not have been compromised in any way by this action, and it would have been the professional, not to mention compassionate, choice of behavior. I look at this entire incident as a blessing in disguise...at least now her true colors are known. The fact that the appeals court found that a jury "could" rule in her favor certainly is no indication that they will.
YpsiVeteran
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
Correction to my post...Ward did actually refer the student to someone else because he sought help with a relationship issue. However, she did so because she somehow wrongly associated therapy with judgement and affirmation of lifestyle. Helping someone identify a self-defeating behavior, or exit an abusive relationship, or any of the other million "relationship" problems in no way threatens anyone's religious beliefs, because it doesn't imply support or rejection of the gender choices made by the patient. Behavior is behavior and emotions are emotions, regardless of their objects or subjects.
greg, too
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 9:15 p.m.
I find it quite ironic that, if this case does pass somehow and she wins, that a racist probably could use the same claim to not counsel or treat her. I think the historical irony of this case is obviously lost on her as well as most of the people who support her.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 4:31 a.m.
What bible are you reading?
Mike
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 1:51 a.m.
It is not a religious belief that racism is OK......are you for real?
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.
Macabre, I'm guessing that her outrage would only last as long as it would take her to get to a lawyer's office. I'm guessing this female would be seeing dollar signs dancing in front of her, just as she is now.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:28 p.m.
I'm guessing she'd feel outrage that an openly racist person was given certification in her chosen field. I'm also guessing she'd feel the certification itself lost some value and respect.
Unusual Suspect
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 10:40 p.m.
I'm guessing she would be quite comfortable with a racist declining to counsel her so she can move on to somebody more suitable for her needs.
trespass
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 9:14 p.m.
When is the trial? I could not see the date in either story.
Mick52
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 3:23 a.m.
What? You expect pertinent facts? I think there may be no trial. Many cases are settled after a trial date is set, even on the day of the trial. I think EMU is taking a big risk on this, I think they really screwed up and this case could set a huge precedent.
Dog Guy
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 8:49 p.m.
Once again, Ann Arbor's herd of independent thinkers speaks with unanimity. Ann Arbor is very proud if its big trees, which protect tax-funded incomes and political correctness from erosion. Thank Darwin that all our big trees have universal union representation !
Bertha Venation
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:58 p.m.
I'm totally with you Mac and Greg, but sometimes it almost seems like beating a dead b_b_e (horse).
Mike
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:24 p.m.
Bigotry - "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance". For all of the intolerance and group think liberals who like to throw this word around............
Unusual Suspect
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 10:39 p.m.
Aye, Mike, that describes liberals in perfect detail. Intolerance, prejudice, and hatred. I see it every day.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 8:18 p.m.
I love how you get voted down for listing a true definition because it doesn't agree with some peoples' views... makes me laugh.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:27 p.m.
Ha ha ha. The woman in question clearly did all of these things to her potential client...
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:12 p.m.
What if someone who wanted to teach in a public high school decided that she should refer gay students to another teacher? A professional needs to separate her personal beliefs. If that's not possible, there are plenty of other career paths.
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:47 p.m.
Bcar, since when is a counselor's sole focus on any one issue? Anyone who has sought the assistance of a trained counselor knows you could go for years and never even mention sexuality. In this parallel world of yours, in which what this woman did somehow is not blatant bigotry, is every issue in life connected to who a person sleeps with?
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 10:25 p.m.
Someone who needs to see a psychologist might very well be in crisis, and neither of us know the details of this case to that level. Even if that person is not in crisis, a psychologist must not discriminate based on personal belief systems. And a psychologist must put herself in position where she can determine if immediate emergency care is necessary, no matter what is presented. What if your doctor told you, "I'm sorry, you're African American, and I'm not equipped to treat African-American people. Here's someone else you can see... I hope it's not an emergency.. best of luck to you." Wouldn't you wonder why? Julea might be an expert in what this patient needed. But because of her personal and unprofessional beliefs, she withheld treatment. I would wonder, if I were the patient, if that was because of disgust. Just as I'd wonder, if I were the African-American patient in my above example, if the doctor wasn't merely disgusted by my race and perfectly well suited to treat my illness.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 9:36 p.m.
@Bertha. You all love to tout "pro choice" when it serves you, your opinion and your agenda, but not when it differs from your view. I never said anything about abortion(twisting my words or my beliefs perhaps?), I'm all for pro choice, but pro choice applied equally to all and on all subjects! Guess equality for all really isn't what you are all about after all... @mcb, how could it be perceived as disgust? Or is that just how you feel about it? It could also be perceived as logical, thoughtful and courteous, gasp! Id be glad if a doc referred me to someone who could better understand me and my needs vs. Trying to hide their true feelings, not understanding my position and not giving me the best care. Do no harm also means referring the best care... this wasn't an emergency situation so stop trying to turn it into a hypothetical situation that serves your agenda. Dooh, sorry, there I go again with logic and reason... those have no place in ann arbor.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 8:32 p.m.
To the person in crisis, being told that his or her sexuality conflicts with a counselor's belief system to the extent that treatment is impossible can easily be perceived as disgust, or worse. How else would you view it? This not only contradicts the Hippocratic Oath, which you take if you're a physician (psychologists have this training before they specialize), it makes a mockery of it.
Bertha Venation
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 8:04 p.m.
@BCAR -- "Pro Life"---- even if it kills the mother.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:42 p.m.
Macab, why are you inventing and making up words she didn't say? To promote your beliefs perhaps? She never insulted the person or said "you disgust me..." There was a 2nd option available in this case. It was not a real life and death situation or crisis. Changing the facts to suit your argument?
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:30 p.m.
Teachers are expected to handle a wide variety of subject matter. And when someone is having a mental health crisis, which is common enough, there often isn't a second choice. It could be quite harmful to tell a gay person, if he or she is having a crisis related to his or her sexuality, that he or she disgusts the professional to the extent that another practitioner must be consulted. It's simply inappropriate for someone like Julea to enter this profession.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:17 p.m.
A student in your example doesn't really have a choice of teachers in most school districts, a mental health patient does. And a teacher's sole focus is on broad teaching not on a specific personal issue relating to homosexuality. Thankfully the later isn't mandated to be taught in our school system. "Pro Choice!" As long as you agree with us!
Alex Swary
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:59 p.m.
Someone who can't separate their own personal choice as to what religion to follow from their degree/job doesn't sound like they'd be a very good counselor anyway. EMU made the right decision.
YpsiVeteran
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 5:33 a.m.
I'm also not sure where you come up with your baseless assumptions about my religious affiliations, but you'll be happy to learn you're wrong about that, also. Also, my personal viewpoints have nothing to do with this, so I think the only things being jammed down anyone's throats so far in his discussion are your erroneous assumptions about other people's religious and political viewpoints.
YpsiVeteran
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 5:30 a.m.
Mike, there's no force involved. You can manufacture all the drama you want; it won't change the fact that people make choices, and they have to accept the consequences. She chose a profession with a professional code of conduct. If her religious beliefs were so important to her, she could have chosen a field of endeavor that would not have involved any challenges to her religious beliefs. She chose a field with a well-established code of conduct, and now she wants everyone and everything to bend over backwards to accommodate her lack of personal responsibility. She made her choices.
Mike
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 1:47 a.m.
Ypsi veteran - it's called a conflict of interest. Not every counselor is the same, has the same areas of expertise, etc. So you are saying she should be forced to violate her religions beliefs instead of refering the gay student to someone else. Shoul we force people to do dusiness with each other when they are not a good fit. I am assuming you may not be of a religious persuasion or you would understand perfectly. You come from the viewpoint of jamming your viewpoint down the throat of others I guess. So I would assume you support telling muslims that they should not be wearing head scarves if you don't think they should? Force christians to perform abortions? And you call the religious right intolerant. You are no different.............
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:58 p.m.
Grammar police: "....their job..." not "there" job. Sorry.
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:57 p.m.
Mike, it's apparent you have no concept of the role of a therapist/counselor. It's not the job of a therapist to judge a patient or tell them what to do; there job is to help a patient solve their own problems, identify self-defeating behaviors, etc., and to diagnose problems like depression, OCD behaviors, panic disorders, etc. How does being either hetro- or homosexual have any bearing on the majority of things for which people seek assistance? How does being Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan or Baptist enter into it. She can't help a guy who is washing his hands a hundred times a day because he's gay? Her religious "beliefs" are compromised by treating guy for phobias because he happens to be gay? I'm sorry, but that's patently ridiculous.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 11:31 p.m.
So what you're saying, Mike, is that a Muslim couldn't separate the tenets of the Koran from his or her professional requirements? Why would you assume a Christian is any different? A religious person can be a professional. Many are. But if the religious beliefs supersede professional ethics, then that's no longer possible.
Mike
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:26 p.m.
Do you think a muslim counselor could counsel a christian very effectively? Think about it...............it would violate their religious beliefs. If you disagree you don't understand the koran
SEC Fan
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:46 p.m.
"EMU said Ward had violated the American Counseling Association's code of ethics" I've read through the ACA's code of ethics and couldn't find anything indicating she couldn't refer the client to another counselor. From what I can tell, it doesn't mandate a counselor accept anyone as a client. In fact it includes a clause allowing counselors to "fire" the client: A.11.b. Inability to Assist Clients If counselors determine an inability to be of professional assistance to clients, they avoid entering or continuing counseling relationships. Counselors are knowledgeable about culturally and clinically appropriate referral resources and suggest these alternatives. If clients decline the suggested referrals, counselors should discontinue the relationship. not that I agree with her stance, but her effectiveness as a counselor would undoubtedly be less considering her personal beliefs.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:12 p.m.
Bonsai, the clients "need" can be fulfilled by someone else. Who are you to decide what is best for her in her life? Oh yeah, I forgot, your views should be everyone's view...
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:10 p.m.
How dare you throw out logic, facts and data in ann arbor! We'll have none of that now...
Bonsai
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:03 p.m.
"an inability to be of professional assistance" based on what? based on something related to the client or related to the counselor? the latter doesn't hold water -- that's not an "inability," it's a lack of desire. that is, if one is well-trained as a counselor, one will know how to counsel a gay person -- the supposed "inability" to do so is based on something completely irrelevant, namely, the counselor's religious belief that she is choosing to elevate above the client's need
Cory
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:33 p.m.
Comment deleted for comparing fictional characters? Welcome to AA.com. Frankly though, I still support EMU's decision to kick her out. If you can't get over your own prejudices, then how are you ever going to help other people with theirs? This case is walking a fine line of "who's rights do we step on?" Instead of worrying about her religious rights, lets instead focus on the fact that she knew the policy before she began classes. She knew she was violating it. We're not here to discuss the policy, we're here to discuss her breaking it. That's like trying to get out of a speeding ticket because the road was empty. "Well, it should only apply when I want it to apply!"
Arborcomment
Thu, Sep 13, 2012 : 12:46 a.m.
Then following your arguement Cory, you should also call for the suspension of Sandra Fluke, who purposely applied for Georgetown Law School to set up her "Reproductive Rights Center" (membership: her) at that catholic school and knew full well of the school's policy before applying.
bobslowson
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 3:59 p.m.
This is typical...to the right, ALL of our laws should be based on the bible. Separation of church and state anyone?
Unusual Suspect
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 10:36 p.m.
This is typical: to the left, a differing belief is a "prejudice."
Ron Granger
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 5:12 p.m.
So a Hindu who does not eat meat for religious reasons should not be forced to counsel people who eat meat? Is that the same argument she is trying to make?
harry
Fri, Sep 14, 2012 : 4:59 p.m.
If the Hindu was conseling them on the benefits of eating meat I would say no.
Ron Granger
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 5:11 p.m.
Isn't there a story in the bible about Jesus bathing the feet of a whore? While I am no biblical scholar, it does not seem that he JUDGED her. Nor did he deny her help because of her extra-marital activities.
1959Viking
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 9:41 p.m.
Actually he did judge her, he told her to, Go and sin no more." But he also showed her compassion first.
15crown00
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 4:52 p.m.
my vote is for EMU
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 4:32 p.m.
This is the case of a single person deciding that her personal religion is more important than those in need, those who educate and the entire science of psychology. Religion is often the most selfish pursuit a person can follow. Julea has crafted a god in her own image. I applaud EMU for continuing to fight this case. Without a win, the entire profession of psychology takes quite a hit.
Mick52
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 3:14 a.m.
Mac, I think you are wrong on this one. When I first heard about this I was puzzled that EMU would take this action against her since in original stories, it was reported that the students in the programs were told to report any issues they had, which Ms. Ward did. So I asked a friend who is actually in the business about how this is handled in real life. He told me this type of situation occurs all the time and counselors switch so that a counselor who has no issues takes on the treatment of the client. There is often a big difference between how universities think or "wish" things should be done in the manner they believe is appropriate, but that is not how it is done in the real world. Also, what is in the best interests of the patient/client? I would not want a counselor who has a contrary opinion of my concerns and I would want to know. EMU could get a big kick in the pants by taking this forward, not just for EMU but all schools under the jurisdiction of the courts this will end up in.
Matt Cooper
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 1:31 a.m.
I have to say I agree with every word Macabre has said so far. And for those that didn't know, when you join a professional organisation such as the ACA, which Ms. Ward did, and agree to uphold the traditions and values of that organisation, in particular those held in the organisations Code of Ethics, you are bound by those organisational and professional ethics. The ACA Code of Ethics reads, in part: "Association members recognize diversity and embrace a cross- cultural approach in support of the worth, dignity, potential, and uniqueness of people within their social and cultural contexts." Refusing to counsel this client, even if she did offer a referral to another student counselor, inherently communicates to that client, in essence "I don't agree with your lifestyle, your worth, your potential, your uniqueness or your dignity", based solely on her own personal religious beliefs. By doing this, and allowing her own actions and personal beliefs to denegrate another human being, she violated the Code of Ethics. This is unacceptable. I hope she loses. Also, the Code further states: "A.4.b. Personal Values: Counselors are aware of their own values, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors and avoid imposing values that are inconsistent with counseling goals. Counselors respect the diversity of clients, trainees, and research participants.
Unusual Suspect
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 10:34 p.m.
"I'm saying that when you join a profession, you have to suspend your personal beliefs." Error.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:36 p.m.
It is not a requirement of the profession...
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:26 p.m.
Of course not. But a transgender, or anyone, who cannot separate a personal belief system from the requirements of the profession should not receive accreditation.
Mike
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:21 p.m.
"People should be free to practice any religion they choose. But they need to accept this means that they cannot enter many professions." Macabre - does this mean that you would say transgenders should avoid professions that they are not accepted in? Someone else could have counseled that student without firing the counselor. This shows total intolerance by the liberals and bigotry to the max..........
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:18 p.m.
Greg, please explain how she is a bigot?
Bonsai
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:59 p.m.
well done Mac - for once I agree with you - this person clearly does not desire to help people, only to advance her own intolerance
greg, too
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:34 p.m.
I would imagine, or at least hope, that no government based (i.e. tax payer funded) agency would hire an open bigot (that is what she is, no matter what book she bases it on). Outside of work, her religious views and feelings on homosexuality are her own personal views and she entitled to them. But when she enters the public sphere, especially at a tax payer funded university, as well as possibly working at a tax payer funded clinic after she graduates, then these are an issue. She is trying to enter a field where she will have to work with people from all walks of life, various religious backgrounds, sexual orientations, as well as different viewpoints. And she has already expressed her desire to not work who are not of her same beliefs. The simple fact is that before she has even been granted a degree, she has proven herself to be unprofessional and unfit for the positon. The most ironic part is that if she wins, she opens up a nice loophole for people who do not want to work with women or African Americans or any other minority as they can now just point to the same biblical passages that people used to justify slavery and not allowing women equal rights for centuries. I would imagine an African American woman should see the issues with that.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 6:03 p.m.
I'm saying that when you join a profession, you have to suspend your personal beliefs. You are not more important than the wealth of knowledge and expertise that precedes you. You've illustrated my point about psychology perfectly. If the mental health of the patient is not critical, then what is the point of having psychologists? Might as well leave this sort of thing to a pastor or someone you meet while playing beer pong. If you allow people like Julea into psychology, you've reduced the profession to the level of Dear Abby.
Bcar
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 5:17 p.m.
So Macabre, a rape victim should be forced to council rapists? And your ER analogy is total BS, the councling in question is not a life or death situation... I LOVE how people like you are all about free choice!...as long as everyone's opinion and convictions match yours...
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.
An apt comparison would be if a woman presented with an emergency condition where she could only be saved if her fetus were aborted. I would argue that a doctor who refused to treat her should lose his or her license as well. Psychology is a science that requires that practitioners place the mental welfare of those presenting above their own personal views. Without that requirement, you cannot treat any patient in crisis in good faith. People should be free to practice any religion they choose. But they need to accept this means that they cannot enter many professions.
harry
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 4:39 p.m.
I hope EMU loses there everything. This is no different from doctors who dont want to perform abortions. There is a million pyschologist out there. Find one that accepts homosexuality.
dotdash
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 4:21 p.m.
The funding for this series of appeals come from this far right religious group (who also provided funding for the legal challenge to California's same-sex marriages and anti-choice initiatives), not "a legal organization that works to uphold the rights of religious college students and faculty". http://www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org/page/new-name?referral=I0712RB
John
Wed, Sep 12, 2012 : 12:34 a.m.
By anti choice do you perhaps mean pro abortion? Which is the same as killing a baby? And your web link was biased, read the sources.
greg, too
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 9:14 p.m.
Mike, so your logical is that since they are a good deal of christians in this country, they should be allowed to do whatever they want because they are the majority? And that minority's should have to bend to the whims of the majority just because might makes right? You are aware, as i am assuming you are a WASP male, that you will be a minority in a couple years. Be careful for what you wish for.
Mike
Tue, Sep 11, 2012 : 7:18 p.m.
At least someone is sticking up for this woman. The all accepting liberals want to persecute people because of their religious beliefs....unbelievable. And they expect everyone else to be not just tolerant of their beliefs but that they should be forced to accept them. Why not turn it the other way around and force the minority to accept the beliefs of the majority? It won't happen. How hypocritical is that?