annarbor28

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 3:02 p.m.

Do they have an email address?

YpsiLivin

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 1:40 p.m.

When you send out your holiday cards, be sure to send one to the friendly folks who manage the property and let 'em know how you feel. Perhaps after the first 20,000 or 30,000 (un)happy holiday cards they get, they'll get the message. Be sure to include lots of photos of people crossing the street in rush hour traffic to catch the bus. Amcap Properties 44 Cook St # 710 Denver, CO 80206-5800 (303) 321-1500

sandy schopbach

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 11:58 a.m.

It's the same old story: local people v. huge corporations in other places. True: boycotting won't make a national company budge very much. But what other pressure do locals have? Also true: moving the bus stop on Washtenaw to be near the crosswalk might have been a cheaper, simpler solution. Arborland has been there for a long time. I remember it in its previous life, before it was all razed and rebuilt. I'm assuming the management company isn't the same as it was before. It appears they are in Farmington Hills. As are many of the management companies of other big projects in Ann Arbor (hotels, apt bldgs). When will Ann Arbor - a city full of Idea People, Entrepreneurs, Money - start servicing its own community. For instance, people, look at who's behind the projects being suggested for the Library Lot on Fifth, and where they are based. All Seasons is out of Farmington Hills (see above). The Hotel and Retail Center is out of Bloomfield Hills. Ann Arbor Town Plaza is even FARTHER afield: from White Plains, NY! The other three are Ann Arbor projects, it seems. I think the City Council should take that into consideration when making their decision, if only to have SOME leverage over the future owners in similar situations where the locals are short-changed on services by people outside of the Council's jurisdiction. In the meantime, all you Legal Eagles, look into this one. There's surely laws and contracts that have been broken and room to make the offending parties rethink their decision.

tdw

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 9:23 a.m.

just one more comment. I don't anyone is to blame.The fact is,that sretch of road ( between carpenter and pittsfield )is just not friendly for buses and pedestrains or cars for that matter. I've been driving for 30+ years and have always avoided it unless I had a reason.I can't think of one business there that is not a pain to get in or out of

annarbor28

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 9:09 a.m.

By the way, I think one reason that this article has received so many comments is that more than one of us have referred to near-misses with pedestrians crossing Washtenaw since this changed. I am sure that none of us want to be the first to kill a pedestrian there, even if we would not be held at fault. That's why I care so much, I almost ran down a woman and a small child who were dodging traffic. Sure, they should have walked down to the light, but no one is enforcing that, and the pedestrians will continue to jaywalk there to the bus stops, which are placed down the road from the light. The light itself is not that safe either for crossing. Seriously, I was involved in the kind of thing for years in another city, and it ONLY changed after a man was struck getting off a bus and crossing a similar street and killed. It did not even change when prior pedestrians were "only" hit and injured, without dying.

annarbor28

Sun, Nov 29, 2009 : 8:57 a.m.

So who will do that? Any interested attorneys and/or city planners reading this blog? How about those U-M Law School profs and students defending the crazy sex offender mentioned in another article? Would any of them have time to help protect pedestrians? Seriusly, any ideas????

Woman in Ypsilanti

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 10:52 p.m.

Well, the management at Arborland decided not to allow the buses to go in there. I cant imagine who else could possibly be to blame for the problem of the buses not being allowed to go into Arborland. Sure, it is private property and they are well within their rights to do it. But I am similarly granted the freedom to both blame the management of Arborland and to choose not to shop there because of this. Naturally I hope enough of my neighbors are of a similar mind and also will refuse to shop there which would prompt the businesses there to be a bit stronger about insisting that the Arborland management change their mind. Personally I doubt there are enough people who care about this to make much of a difference. But be that as it may, I feel good about my decision not to shop there even though it means I have to drive farther for things.

tdw

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 9:13 p.m.

If that is indeed true then I guess that it would be a whole diffrient story ( although I thought zoning laws were grandfathered in. but maybe it had to do with the additions )If that is the case, then Arborland should be forced to keep up it's end of the bargain

annarbor28

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 8:35 p.m.

I thought that some poster(s) said they thought that the owners of Arborland were granted zoning exceptions based on the bus service.

tdw

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 8:19 p.m.

I guess I don't why it's up to Arborland to accommodate AATA on their property.If there was an agreement between the two then it would be a diffrent story.But since there is not it seems that it is up to AATA to find a solution to the problem.I just don't understand how Arborland is to blame

annarbor28

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 7:33 p.m.

tdw: I don't understand your point. Arborland stopped the buses from coming into the area of the shopping center. Why are they not responsible for this?

tdw

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 7:15 p.m.

I don't know exactly how people can blame this on Arborland.Arborland has been there for at least 40 years if not more.It's not like it's new.So I would think it's due to a growing population.I also don't believe( or can't remember )that there has been anytyhing done to that strech of road for as least 30yrs.Perhaps it is because they have added and expanded some,but it does'nt seem that it has become that more busy than it was in it's heyday ( maybe I'm wrong )

hroad

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 5:43 p.m.

Starting on December 8, Route 22 will take a detour to the Glencoe Crossing Center on Washtenaw Ave. To allow transfers to the outbound Route 7 from the northbound Route 22, AATA should also detour the outbound Route 7 to the Glencoe Crossing Center on Washtenaw Ave. This will allow bus passengers who live on or near Carpenter Road traveling to St. Joes Hospital, Washtenaw Community College, or the Clark Rd area to transfer at the Glencoe Crossing Center and to travel to these destinations.

annarbor28

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 4:12 p.m.

If they are concerned about having commuters parking there for long periods of time, all they need to do is to institute 3 hour parking spots that are enforced, such as by Starbucks. Other spots can have no restrictions. Hiller's does give back to communities in Michigan, and is family owned and Michigan based, so I don't like boycotting them, although I avoid all of Arborland now. You are right that out-of-state owners of the mall could care less about Ann Arbor. However, Ann Arbor is supposed to be at the forefront of progressive thought, and the "green" economy. City Council needs to put an issue like safety and convenience of the community and public transportation right there front and center, alongside the importance of having chickens in our back yards! Who could open an investigation as to whether the shopping center is supposed to allow buses? How does one interest City Council or the Mayor in issues? I do think this will take a pedestrian death to be noticed by them.

swcornell

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 2:46 p.m.

It's true Arborland owners and merchants do not need to explain themselves to Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti residences as to why they hate us. However, then we do not need to explain to them why we are boycotting Arborland! I will no longer patronize Arborland and I suggest all Ann Arborites do the same (period) It may be true that this is private property, but the bus stops were there long before the current owners, long before most of the current mall residents even before any of these current buildings were there.

A2transplant

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 2:30 p.m.

I find it hard to believe that the top corporate decision makers at Arborland Plaza care much, if at all, about the day-to-day issues of how we as pedestrians get to work, or navigate around Ann Arbor at all. The only A2-based business in the lot is Borders. The only other business there we could call "local" is Hiller's, which is headquartered in Detroit. The rest are ALL national chain stores, headquartered all over the US. This includes management of the Arborland Plaza, Amcap corp: http://www.amcap.com/property/east/east.cfm Tell me...why should a Suit in CT or CO care about the safety issues of pedestrians in Ann Arbor?? Keep it local, folks...then you might get a human response for a human issue.

Arborcharm11

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 1:59 p.m.

On the AATA website it states that the current move to the Glencoe Shopping Center will "help facilitate transfers to routes 4 and 7." That's great for those people making an East-West connection, but as far as a commuter who comes all the way from the north side of Ann Arbor is concerned, the concept of the North-South Connector has now been rendered useless! They do not offer up any written time delays for reaching the destinations south of Washtenaw on Carpenter such as Meijer, either. With the addition of extra mileage, traffic lights, and the rush hour traffic on Washtenaw, I assume some commuters could lose another twenty to thirty minutes out of their day. And, that's twenty to thirty minutes each way, too! In time, I realize that I will adapt to the inconvenience of taking Route 2 all the way into Ann Arbor and transferring at the Blake Transfer Center to connect to Route 5 so I can get to my current standing appointments and Meijer connections. But that said, I wonder if I should just give up my current plan of using public transportation to save money and go back to paying monthly charges for car payments, insurance, and maintenance? At the moment, if I do need to travel outside the AATA serviced area to visit my family members or go shopping, that's when I rent a vehicle. Otherwise, over the past several years, I have benefited greatly from using the AATA public transportation. Not only do I have several hundred more dollars to use each month as spendable income for International travel every other year, but I also get to spend some of it at local businesses and restaurants, too. In closing I have to state that every since the Arborland management chose to slight and marginalize ALL the AATA passengers due to biased "appearances," I now frequent the Old Navy, Toys R Us, and Michael's in Westland instead of the Arborland establishments. While I know that my few measly dollars might still end up being on those corporation's bottom line, at least I have the benefit of knowing that it didn't come from their Arborland accounting sheets.

djm12652

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 12:46 p.m.

Maybe no one can force the property owners to put a bus stop on their property, but because I've almost clipped a couple of people darting across the road to catch a bus, I will no longer shop at Arborland, in fact I avoid that stretch of Washtenaw all together now, using back roads.

Paul Taylor

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 9:11 a.m.

The problem with a pedestrian bridge is the same problem I touched on in an email to the management, and that is the impact on handicapped riders. Unless you're installing a bridge with an elevator at either end (and THAT isn't going to happen), it won't address the problem for them.

townie

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 9 a.m.

How about a pedestrian bridge?

Paul Taylor

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 4:01 a.m.

BTW, post a link to this story on your Facebook page, if you have one. Get the word out.

Paul Taylor

Sat, Nov 28, 2009 : 3:53 a.m.

I haven't shopped at Arborland since the mgt tossed out AATA. Sure, a more general boycott might hurt the stores, but they are the ones with the most power to engage the mgt, seeing as the mgt has no interest in listening to or engaging with the general public. If Arborland got any sort of abatement, etc., for locating the stop there in the first place, then I hope to heck that they get caught by the short n curlies over it.

twiddleedee

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 10:52 p.m.

Personally, I'm afraid of the people loitering around the mall at night after dark. I won't shop there by myself in the evening. I don't think that's what the merchants or the management wants. I also have a huge problem parking near the Noodles, Starbucks strip. The overflow is always taken up by the commuter parking. Don't pretend it isn't there. You know it is! Again, they want parking available for shoppers, not people working in downtown Ann Arbor. I am also sick of being stuck behind busses on Pittsfield Blvd. You are forced to drive over a double yellow line blindly into oncoming traffic to get around it. They seem to just sit there!! That was a very bad plan. I'm not surprised it's the first to go!. I'm supporting the management. It's a bigger picture than any of you are looking at. There's good and bad on both sides of the fence. It's a difficult problem to work out. I'm appalled that the city would "temporarily" make such a dangerous plan. Wow!

annarbor28

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 10:16 p.m.

They could have designated spots further out as "commuter spots." Where I work now there are 2 different colored lines in parking spots, one short-term, the other for employees. There are simple solutions to these things, instead of trashing this type of bus plan completely. I will still boycott them, as I will 1. still be patronizing A2 businesses, just different ones, 2. maybe then the merchants will put pressure on the management to change the policy back, which will then benefit the merchants with more foot and car traffic. What was the deal with the undesirables, that someone mentioned above?

annarbor

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 9:55 p.m.

I should add that there was one other complaint about the bus riders. Allegedly, riders were using the lot as a "Park and Ride"...leaving their cars in the lot so as not to have to pay for the expensive parking that accompanies having a job in downtown Ann Arbor. More communter cars meant no decent parking spaces for shoppers...

annarbor

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 9:51 p.m.

Boycotting Arborland will not remedy this issue one bit. The management office for Arborland is located in Farmington Hills. It will however, hurt the merchants that were opposed to the move in the first place.

annarbor28

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 9:35 p.m.

Was there an increase in crime, and now that they changed it, is this horrendous crime wave under control?? Are we all safer now at Arborland (which I am personally boycotting now due to the risks for pedestrians they have caused.)

annarbor

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 9:10 p.m.

Arborland Management complained about the "criminal element" the bus stop was attracting. They (Mgmt) were completely unwilling to discuss the matter.

annarbor28

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 8:52 p.m.

So why was Arborland opposed to the buses stopping there? I am really upset about this because I do not want to hit a child crossing a street, and have had close calls, while even driving slowly, not on a cellphone, etc. I may not be legally responsible, as they are jaywalking, but I will be so ruined emotionally if I hurt someone, when this whole thing seems preventable. I would alter my route, but that would add an extra 30 minutes a day to my commute. Anyone have suggestions as to how to resolve this problem at Arborland???

annarbor

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 8:42 p.m.

It should be noted that ALL of Arborland's merchants opposed the removal of the bus stop from the mall. Many of the riders shopped at Hillers', Borders etc. and then hopped on the bus and rode home. City Council has argued this point with Arborland Mgmt and they refused to return the bus stops to the mall.

annarbor28

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 8:19 p.m.

I drive by there twice a day. It is very dangerous, because pedestrians, often with children, cross Washtenaw in the middle of heavy rush hour traffic. In addition, the buses stop in the middle of heavy traffic, causing near misses by cars who brake suddenly, or drive around the buses. Also there is again the danger of pedestrians confronting those cars when running in front of the buses. The people waiting are sitting on benches breathing in heavy pollution, fighting the hot or cold weather. I cannot believe the merchants or management of Arborland were able to get this changed. If they received a zoning permit for a larger parking lot due to bus traffic and parking, they need to be severely held to this. They need to close part of the parking lot until they are compliant, preferably the near-in, convenient spots. Certainly the City of Ann Arbor must have some decent attorneys to aggressively pursue this, for the safety of pedestrians, passengers and drivers. Why did the merchants not want these passengers there? There were always parking spaces at Arborland, and I think they shopped there, before and after using the bus. Someone needs to look into this, and penalize either Arborland or the merchants if they went against agreements made concernning the bus stops. I think this shows a weakness of the City Council,and the mayor that they are letting this slide. The City Council can debate chickens for months, and make absolutely unnecessary expenditures, such as sculpture from overseas, instead of local artists, and then justify this stupidity. They can make stupid decisions about unnecessary development. They can send stupid email messages during their sessions. But I predict it will take the death of a pedestrian to change this situation. I am a very careful driver and have almost hit pedestrians walking across the street from these buses on Washtenaw, including an older woman and her presumed grandchild who were darting through rush hour traffic. If Arborland violated a contract ot zoning agreement, then I hope they will be held responsible. otherwise, they are MORALLY responsible for this. I do not go to Arborland anymore, because I am so appalled about its lack of concern for the community of A2. I think they should change their name to reflect being outsiders. I also think the City Council and the Ann Arbor city counsel need to be held responsible for ignoring these citizens safety. I was involved in a similar situation in another city, and despite drawn-out hearings and legal actions, it took the death of a pedestrian to change the situation of dangerous bus stops and safety. I hope that Ann Arbor is a little more progressive and will take action prior to a tragedy occurs. Pressure Arborland and its merchants to be a part of the community. Otherwise, boycott the businesses.

johnnya2

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 7:56 p.m.

Actually, Arborland MAY need to face city council IF they use any tax abatements or city or AATA funds were used for the roads in the mall lot. They may also need to refund a portion of their lease payments for a material breach of the lease, which had a bus stop on premises when each of the businesses there signed their lease. I also think, like the Whole Foods Plaza, they were given a parking lot size exception based on the bus route. If that is the case, they will need to become compliant for the amount of square footage to parking in the mall area.

A2zoo

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 7:49 p.m.

So this means that the 22 bus will no longer go through the residential area south of Washtenaw and those buses won't create bad backups on Pittsfield? I sure hope that is the case

annarbor

Fri, Nov 27, 2009 : 6:58 p.m.

Arborland management doesn't have to appear before anyone to explain themselves. Arborland is private property. City Council does not have the authority to make them place a bus stop on their property.