Clerk uses gun to foil robbery at Pittsfield Township store
A convenience store clerk confronted by a would-be robber with a gun thwarted the robbery attempt by pulling out his own gun, Pittsfield Township Police said.
Police are looking for this man, who tried to rob the Golfside Market Wednesday.
Courtesy of PTPD
“The clerk pulled his gun, at which time the suspect fled the store,” police said in a press release.
A University of Michigan police dog tracked the man to a parking space in the Greenway Park Apartments next to Golfside Market. However, the man had driven away.
The man is described as black, 6 feet to 6 feet 3 inches tall, with a thin build. He was last seen wearing dark pants and shoes, a long-sleeved white shirt under a dark-colored short-sleeved shirt. He was also wearing a dark winter ski mask hat with white stripes.
Police released a photo of the suspect taken from security camera images.
Investigators responded to the store at 9:24 a.m. Wednesday.
Anyone with information on this incident is encouraged to call the Pittsfield Township police at 734-822-4911 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-SPEAK UP (773-2587).
Kyle Feldscher covers cops and courts for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at kylefeldscher@annarbor.com or you can follow him on Twitter.
Comments
napoleon
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:29 p.m.
This clerk and George Zimmerman are both heros! Gun control are my index fingers. For those of you who don't understand, I shoot well with both hands.
Nicholas Urfe
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.
Some people would like to have us like England, where the population is kept completely un-armed, and where violent crime is much more common than in the USA. You can't even carry a pocket knife in England.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 7:59 p.m.
Actually, if you read the report the blogger links to, the total violent crimes were 485,000, down from the previous year - not 1.94 million as the blogger suggests. In fact, there is no 1.94 million figure in the entire document. (there is a 1.9 *percent*). Your argument is not based on statistical reality. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_296191.pdf
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:55 p.m.
yep no guns - GUN crime down. Why no discussion about all the other "types" of violent crime that are up? About how homes are routinely invaded because the invaders have ruthlessness, numbers and NO FEAR of lethal or any response? http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/inconvenient-truth-violent-crime-rate-in-the-gun-free-uk-is-800-of-the-heavily-armed-us/
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:18 p.m.
That is completely false. Just like in the United States, they have restrictions on length and type. http://tinyurl.com/m88uwp3 Also, gun crime in England has not increased because of the gun ban. In the past seven years it has decreased. Australia saw the same - a friend of mine lived right near Port Arthur at the time and is in Tasmania still. She has verified this is the case. Here's a good overview: http://tinyurl.com/bm67fmg
A A Resident
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.
I hope those who believe "you don't need to follow" means the same thing as "do not follow" will get some help with their reasoning skills. It's a bit frightening to think there are people walking around in society, to whom I might say one thing, and they will distort it into something completely different.
A A Resident
Fri, Aug 2, 2013 : 3:52 p.m.
(Continued) A neighborhood watch person has the same rights and freedoms as anyone other citizen, including the freedom to approach people, talk to people (including strangers) and even ask questions.
A A Resident
Fri, Aug 2, 2013 : 3:35 p.m.
I haven't missed the point. You've switched to a different subtopic, the neighborhood watch policies. These are policies, not laws, and it's not clear from the evidence whether he followed or not. I don't always adhere to neighborhood watch guidelines. They are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. For instance, when an unmarked truck with an out-of-state plate was parked in front of a neighbors house, and men who didn't live there were carrying items between back yard and the truck, I asked them what they were up to before calling the police. As it turns out, they had been contracted by the owner to repair the back door, so a needless police response was avoided. Nevertheless, I photographed the truck and the license plate, just in case. The risk of handling it this way was mine to take, if I chose. I wouldn't have recommended that one of the frail elderly ladies in the neighborhood handle it this way.
Jaime Magiera
Fri, Aug 2, 2013 : 2:21 a.m.
You're conveniently missing the point that when the group was organized, they were told not to follow "suspects". It's part of the instructions given to all Neighborhood Watch groups. ...and again, the liaison stated in court that she followed that procedure by explicitly explaining that to the Zimmerman, as the head of the group. So, regardless of your novel interpretation of "we don't need you to do that", not following was a foundational guideline of the group in the first place.
A A Resident
Fri, Aug 2, 2013 : 1:11 a.m.
"If you were to go door-to-door and pose this phrase to rational people, pretty much all would agree that the intention was clear." Probably not, if the jury was any indication. You may be a little out of touch with how normal, rational people think.
A A Resident
Fri, Aug 2, 2013 : 1:04 a.m.
Isn't a shame that Zimmerman wasn't a computer programmer, and therefor not privy to your niche variety of logic. I'll try to make it clear: "Don't follow him" would be a directive, or an instruction. "We don't need you to do that" is not a directive or instruction. It leaves it open to choice. Example: If someone tells you, "You don't need to take out the garbage", they have not told you that you shouldn't or can't. You can still take out the garbage if you wish. They might even appreciate it if you do.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 6:21 p.m.
Being a programmer, I'm quite familiar with logic. The thing is, you aren't using logic. When someone in a position of authority asks if you are following someone, then says "We don't need you to do that", the meaning is clear. Also, don't forget that the Neighborhood Watch liaison specifically told Zimmerman when the group was set up that they were not to follow people. So, you can continue using all the convoluted logic you want. It doesn't really change the reality. If you were to go door-to-door and pose this phrase to rational people, pretty much all would agree that the intention was clear.
A A Resident
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:42 p.m.
LOL, there's nothing disingenuous about developing good logic and reasoning skills, and applying them. It's one of the things which set humans apart from plants and animals; the potential to function at a higher level than "stimulus-response", or a knee-jerk reaction. Perhaps you will develop that skill-set someday.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:08 p.m.
I hope that the same disingenuousness that you're relaying now comes into play in a situation in your life.
nicedoggy
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11:58 a.m.
This clerk is a true hero!
KathrynHahn
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 8:22 a.m.
I'm only going to reference one remark made here regarding a witness who said the "perp" shot once into the ceiling. This party store has bulletproof glass counter to ceiling, so the robber could only shoot the ceiling and run. Probably had to show his stuff before leaving, as approaching with a gun only to look at glass and leave would harm his tough cred.
Tru2Blu76
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:35 a.m.
The president of the U.S. Concealed Carry Association (USCCA) recently had this to say in his magazine's "president's page": "The best gun fight is the one you never get into." I think he had this kind of situation in mind when he wrote that (actually, I know he did because he said so in the rest of his letter to readers/members). And from Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) we have this data: As of 7/01/2013, there are a total of 401,000 people licensed to carry a concealed pistol in Michigan. (That's up from just under 49,000 in Sept. 2002). A mere 818% increase in 11 years. I suppose we could call that a trend - and an expression of what people think of efforts to hinder guiltless citizens' right to arm for self defense. As for convenience store clerks (or any clerks who have to stand next to a cash drawer during their entire shift), I can only say it would be good if more stores allowed their employees to be "discreetly armed" for the sake of their lives. Not long ago, a store clerk in the Detroit Metro Area was shot in an armed robbery and the other clerk (a woman) was abducted. That woman's body was discovered not long afterward. Most murder victims are unarmed at the time they are killed. Go figure. Good wishes to the clerk in this story and, possibly to his or her employer for allowing employees to have the means to protect their lives. 'Bout time we got that set of priorities straight.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:49 a.m.
Note that overall nationally, the number of guns in homes has dropped from almost 50% of the population in the 1970s to a mere 35% of the population today. That means almost 2/3 of the population doesn't want them. The increase here is a particular demographic.
zucker
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:52 a.m.
Awesome!
Gyll Stanford
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:47 a.m.
Now THAT"S what I call gun control.
G. Orwell
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:14 a.m.
Dear Jamie Magiera Why do you want the public to be defenseless against violent criminals? Don't you think they have the right to defend themselves and their families best way they can?
Ricebrnr
Sun, Aug 4, 2013 : 7:52 p.m.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/03/us/california-venice-beach-crash/ Police: Venice Beach Boardwalk driver 'bent on doing evil' not "designed" for killing...sure is comforting...
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:33 a.m.
(I'm assuming you can see the fallacy of saying if A then not B in regards to two subjects which are not related - it could be not A & not B)
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:28 a.m.
What about it? I support, and often speak about on my radio show, autonomous vehicles. I believe there should be more mass transit and bike resources. I also believe downtown Ann Arbor should ban automobiles from the inner part of the city. More Bikes. Less Cars. More help. Less guns. Sorry, but your analogy fails miserably.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:34 a.m.
now you just hold it right there. "So, in my mind, the value of having a CAR does not outweigh the damage that they do to society. People should only have them under vary narrow circumstances. Likewise, they should only be narrowly used. In other words, it's a cost/benefit analyze that forms my opinion." http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm Motor vehicle traffic deaths Number of deaths: 33,687 Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.9 All firearm deaths Number of deaths: 31,672 Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3 Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2010, table 18 Adobe PDF file http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/09/guns-traffic-deaths-rates/1784595/ Lets see you cost benefit analyze that.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:28 a.m.
G. Orwell, I believe that one of the greatest tragedies in human civilization is violence. I believe that violence begets violence. I also know that, from a technological perspective, the more refined weapons become on one side, the more refined weapons become on the other side. The more weapons are stockpiled on one side, the more weapons are stockpiled on the other side. Escalation. Also, guns are often misused - intentionally and accidentally. Psychologically, in times of stress, people make poor judgements and poor decisions. Guns make those poor decisions more dangerous and permanent. There are far more deaths from guns unnecessarily than otherwise. So, in my mind, the value of having a gun does not outweigh the damage that they do to society. People should only have them under vary narrow circumstances. Likewise, they should only be narrowly used. In other words, it's a cost/benefit analyze that forms my opinion.
MathGeek
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:09 a.m.
Isn't rule #2 of gun ownership, don't pull your gun on someone unless you're prepared to shoot them? Rule #1 being, the gun is always loaded, even when you think it's empty. I would have blasted that sucker.
G. Orwell
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:05 a.m.
Firearms are great equalizers. Here a 65 year old women fights off 5 masked armed men. And Obama and the Democrats want to take away our ability to defend ourselves. http://youtu.be/CriVUV5lh_M
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:51 p.m.
Oh Redwings...please do more research on the topic of self defense. I VERY HIGHLY recommend you discuss your ideas with an attorney well versed in self defense law. That first shot of salt at best opens you up to a civil suit and at worst could land you in prison for a long long time...
Redwings
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:17 p.m.
Way to generalize. As far as I know, if you pass a background check, you can still buy a weapon that holds up to 10 rounds. How many rounds do you need to shoot and kill your attacker? All I need is a shotgun for home defense, 1st round is salt (sort of a warning), 2nd round is not. Never understood why defense or hunting requires a 50 round clip with a grenade launcher (maybe you're not a very good shot so still using the spray and pray mentality?)
leaguebus
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:02 a.m.
Obama and the Democrats do not want to take away your ability to defend yourselves. They want to make mass shootings harder to do by limiting the size of magazines, taking WMD's out of the hands of crazy people, and doing a good back ground check on gun buyers to make it harder for crazies to buy assault rifles.
G. Orwell
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:26 a.m.
A2 "we may be seeing some things we do not like." I think you are sensing what millions of awake American are sensing. It's about control. Total control over the masses. All tyrannical governments do it.
A2centsworth
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:37 a.m.
people have to ask themselves WHY is he trying to take away our rights to defend ourselves, considering all the ammunition he is hoarding, and the new laws in place, we may be seeing some things we do not like.
DJBudSonic
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:58 a.m.
Second Amendment for the Win.
brian
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:40 a.m.
i know someone who was at the store when it happened and said shots were fired. From what I hear the would be robber fired a shot into the ceiling and the owner fired back.
PSJ
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:34 a.m.
The clerk was wise to be armed and lucky he wasn't shot. The clerk, fearing great bodily harm, should have immediately emptied his gun into the robber.
A2centsworth
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:21 a.m.
This is yet another example why all law abiding citizens should take the CPL course, train themselves and carry a gun. Hats off to the store owner for showing the robber he would not stand for being robbed. My only disappointment with this story is the store owner did not shoot the robber. Shoot enough people who come to do harm, and crime will lower considerably. It is a shame that we live in such a racist society that makes excuses for crimes committed by certain races. A crime is a crime, regardless of color or creed. The law needs to be the same for everyone.
John
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 9:53 p.m.
"It is a shame that we live in such a racist society that makes excuses for crimes committed by certain races." I'm pretty sure that is the LAST shame about living in a racist society, but keep telling yourself that that kind of thing happens anywhere near the amount that negative prejudice and stereotype does.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:25 a.m.
The Paleolithic Age called. They would like their mentality back.
JRW
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:55 p.m.
Why are security cameras such poor quality?
cyndiocyndi
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:20 p.m.
Seriously??? THAT'S your takeaway from this conversation?
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:15 p.m.
a2citizen, gun safety classes can't tell you what the other person is thinking, what their skills are, how determined they are, now out-of-their-mind they are, what customers' reaction might be to having a second weapon pulled or if your weapon will jam. (I grew up just south of Detroit in Lincoln Park, worked and played in the city, and was privy to lots of violence growing up - hence my concern. I've seen escalation.)
Ricebrnr
Sat, Aug 3, 2013 : 11:47 a.m.
When you are seeing a weapon or threats to you, you should be knowing how to respond. Violence does beget violence. If it is perpetrated on you then for sure be the more violent.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:16 a.m.
"seeing" is not the same thing as "knowing"
haulin donkey
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:21 a.m.
NO crystal ball. They just teach you to pull your head out of your you know what and see what is happening around you.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:12 a.m.
They hand you a crystal ball?
haulin donkey
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:09 a.m.
A CPL class and an advanced CPL class will teach you how to read peoples actions and mind sets.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:16 p.m.
This was a misfire and meant for the thread up top. You can delete it.
Mike
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:50 p.m.
This was not an intelligent move by the clerk. He's lucky he wasn't immediately shot in the head.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11:21 a.m.
Jaime. You continuously bring up psychic powers, prognostication etc with regards to a gun owner's abilities. Yet that flip side of that coin is never addressed. Defensive use of force is just that, reactive. If there is no attack there is no problem. However in this and other examples, the robber is the one who means to get whet he wants. How? By threat of or actual use of force. Thus it doesn't take a mind reader to know that they intend you harm. If they intend you harm you need to protect yourself. To do that, if you are not stacking the odds in your favor then you are not doing it right. For all your utopian views, I am guessing if you are attacked you would defend yourself too. You certainly do so here with vigor. Or would you lay there waiting for the compassion of the criminal to overwhelm him before you died?
Mike
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2 a.m.
Ask anyone in law enforcement whether this was the right move. They will all give you a resounding NO. When someone has a gun pointed at you, you don't pull out a gun unless you are absolutely positive that you could fire first and accurately.
Mr. Ed
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:55 a.m.
Yes roll over and be a victim. I rather die than let anyone victimize me. Great job and way to stand up and face the danger.
Ricebrnr
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:20 p.m.
The clerk is alive and unharmed, the robber thwarted, nd een he is unharmed. You have an interesting definition of not intelligent...
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:18 p.m.
It looks the criminal realized he was on an even playing field with the clerk and ran home to mama instead. Obviously he was used to more passive victims.
Homeland Conspiracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:22 p.m.
http://springfieldfiles.com/sounds/apu/putitdown.mp3
David Cahill
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:11 p.m.
Good for the clerk!
justcurious
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:41 p.m.
I'm not against guns and I'm not against "carrying" but this incident turned out lucky for the clerk. There could have been a shootout and he could have ended up dead. Seems like the occupation of convenience store clerk is fast becoming one of the most dangerous to have. And the pay isn't that great either. But many times it is the owner or a family member minding the store now.
haulin donkey
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:04 a.m.
It looks like the bad guy was lucky too. he went out on two feet, not four wheels.
tastes like burning
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:21 p.m.
I would rather take my chances by trying to even the playing field rather than being a willing victim.
Ricebrnr
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:59 p.m.
The criminal came in with a gun. The chances of the victim ending up dead was already higher than before the criminal walked in. Out of everything that could have happened what is the most efficient, timely and positive response the clerk could have done? Exactly what he had prepared in advance to do.
nickcarraweigh
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:28 p.m.
Pittsfield Township is getting like Detroit or Saline nowadays.
Steven Taylor
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11:26 p.m.
Gene, a google search shows at least one homicide back in 2008 in Saline http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/01/slaying_shocks_many_in_saline.html
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:49 p.m.
In Ann Arbor this week, a medical student was executed in his own apartment. When was the last homicide in Saline?
Chase Ingersoll
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:15 p.m.
#JAIME Hope for you that bad person does not read the comments and figure out your address as they could assume that it would be very safe and easy to rob you. Really nice of you to criticize people who are being robbed, for defending themselves.
Steven Taylor
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11:24 p.m.
Jaime has basic information that's publicly available via the Google. :) I won't say anything further and just let yer 'fingers do the walkin'
Bcar
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11:53 a.m.
Jamie, that was funny! LOL! only time ive liked one of your posts ;)
cinnabar7071
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:06 a.m.
Jaime my son is well grounded, I think he'd have you pistol packing, meat eating, clean shaving showering every day man. Either way that was funny.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:53 p.m.
cinnabar7071, most people in the United States don't use guns. I'm actually average in that regard. In fact, statistics show that gun ownership has dramatically decreased in the past four decades (http://tinyurl.com/b9aj2kx). In terms of your kid, send him over. In no time, I'll have converted him to a socialist, recycling, vegetarian, granola-eating, non-weapon-carrying hippie. It'll be the best revenge against an arrogant parent.
cinnabar7071
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:43 p.m.
Either way Jaime you are setting yourself up to be a victim. By your comments we all know you'd be an easy victim. I have no question my 12 y/o could take you with a water gun.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:41 p.m.
Chase, first, if you think that I criticized the store owner, you need to take some literacy classes. Secondly, you know what they say about assume - it makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".
AnnArBo
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:01 p.m.
I wonder if Obama would be proud to have this store clerk as his "potential son"? Or if he would rather side with the criminal?
A2centsworth
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:12 a.m.
AnnArBo: it would depend on who had the darkest complexion.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.
Do you really think your comparison is fair? An adult attempting to rob a store at gunpoint vs. a teenager walking through a neighborhood and being followed by someone refusing to identify themselves?
Mike
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:54 p.m.
This is why we need more gun control. That poor robber probably has a family to feed and they will now go hungry..............call 911 next time and give the poor guy a chance.
hail2thevict0r
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:51 p.m.
The Police dogs seem to be tracking the crap out of people lately. They caught those burglars the other day and now they tracked this guy to his car in a parking space.
Ric
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:51 p.m.
AA High School Class of 1959...never heard of such behavior in those days.
Dog Guy
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:20 a.m.
AA High School Class of 1959 had an onsite rifle team deterring such behavior in school.
eldegee
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:44 p.m.
1959 In Cold Blood quadruple murders, chronicled by Truman Capote, later a movie starring Robert Blake. Yes, evil existed even back in the "Happy Days" era.
CPLtownie
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:39 p.m.
There's a lot more stores that have armed employees than people realize. It's an unfortunate reality ... Say all you want about gun control ... But the reality? It's up to people to be able & prepared to defend themselves, lest they be killed or abducted, tortured, and later killed. Personal responsibility.
SEC Fan
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:12 p.m.
I find it very interesting that the them of virtually every comment here is about whether the clerk should or should not have had a gun...whether the clerk was "wrong" or not... what about the bad guy? Yeah...let's focus on the whether the poor clerk did the "right" thing...
walker101
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:48 p.m.
Maybe he'll think twice about going back to that store, if not maybe he won't be do lucky. All clerks should be packing, maybe those two young kids that were murdered in Wayne County for no reason would still be here.
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:48 p.m.
Customers in the cross fire = not too good for business in those out-of-the-way party stores.
cyndiocyndi
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:31 p.m.
In reference to the "dead hero, not smart" comment below: My definition of "not smart" is not defending one's self. More people should consider taking a CPL class, learning gun safety, gun laws and basic self defence.
Nicholas Urfe
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:19 p.m.
Is there a "crime map" for ypsi and pittsfield township?
JRW
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:57 p.m.
How does a2.com pick and choose which crimes to report?
Mitch
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:50 p.m.
Try this one http://www.crimemapping.com/map/mi/annarbor
tdw
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:11 p.m.
KMHall....They don't, until it's anything with the word Ypsilanti in it.Do you remember a few weeks ago they reported about a " dine and dash " that happened in Ypsi ?
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.
tdw Reporting every crime is certainly not the way I want A2.com to spend their time. Jeez.
tdw
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:36 p.m.
Yea google " crime map " if you do, look at Ann Arbor you'll see how many crimes A2.com does not report
Nicholas Urfe
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:18 p.m.
This will send a message to the other thugs that this establishment is armed and not an easy target.
leaguebus
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:17 a.m.
Yes, it will send a message. The next time a robber comes in, he will open up before the clerk has a chance to get out his gun. Time to install lexan around the counter.
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:46 p.m.
nekm1 I think they have their own sources of information and that this sort of news travels fast.
nekm1
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8 p.m.
assuming that thugs read blogs online.
glimmertwin
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:01 p.m.
Love it.
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7 p.m.
It makes me wonder if the gun the suspect was holding was even loaded. Now, think of this. If the clerk shot and killed the suspect, and it was later learned the gun was indeed not loaded, how many bleeding hearts out there would scream, "The clerk killed an unarmed man!"
Redwings
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:03 p.m.
This is why there are so many accidental shootings in the home. EVERY gun you pick up is assumed to have a live round in it. If someone is pointing a gun at you, it is irrelevant whether it has ammunition in it or not. Amazing the number of people shot or killed with "unloaded" weapons.
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:47 p.m.
It seems to me a defending a business is no different than defending one's home. It falls under the castle doctrine.
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.
Y'all: I'm as bleeding a heart as any, but if I were a clerk and someone came in pointing a gun at me, I'd feel that I deserved to stand my ground. This is WAY different from the recent Florida situation. If the police dispatch told me to NOT follow a guy in my 'hood, and I followed him anyway, then there is no way I was standing my ground. Jeez.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:36 p.m.
AnnArbro, problems arise when you have to decide who aggressed who first - having to decide who was "standing their ground". The story here is a more clear-cut case. However, we've seen some not-so-clear-cut cases recently - if you catch my drift.
AnnArBo
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:59 p.m.
That's exactly why stand your ground laws have been enacted, to protect victims of crimes who defend themselves when they legitimately feel their lives are threatened. You don't have to be shot, beat up, or retreat from lethal force when you are a victim. If you feel your life is threatened (someone actually points a gun at you, its pretty clear your life is in danger) you have a right to defend yourself with lethal force and not be second guessed on hypotheticals.
Mike
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:58 p.m.
KMHall - that does not seem to matter to some whether you feel your life was threatened or not as was just covered by the news media over the recent months we suffered through the coverage.
tdw
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.
genetracy....It's like all other thugs they prey on fear because that's what they know.The last thing they want is a fair fight
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:16 p.m.
But he would have had reason to believe that his life was being threatened, no?
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:57 p.m.
It sounds like the clerk "stood his ground". Whatever you do though, please do not let Jesse and Al know.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 11 a.m.
Right speaking of no knowledge.. http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/26/why-does-it-matter-when-and-why-george-z
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 4:21 a.m.
Ricebrnr, no knowledge seems to be much worse. No one said here anything about "getting out of the car". He was told not to follow. Period. Here is the transcript. http://tinyurl.com/834nzb7 Note the following... Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok Also, again, note that Neighborhood Watch are told not to follow people in their training. They are not supposed to be vigilantes. In fact, at the trial, the Neighborhood Watch liaison (Wendy Dorival) stated that she specifically told Zimmerman not to follow people.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:41 a.m.
sigh more examples of little knowledge being dangerous. http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/soap-in-a-sponge-the-enduring-myth-that-george-zimmerman-was-told-not-to-get-out-of-his-car/ Zimmerman was not in the car at the time of the comment "we don't need you to do that."
a2citizen
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 3:38 a.m.
Telling someone "NOT" to follow someone is different than informing them that you "you do not need them to do that". Interpretation wise, It's not even a close call.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:18 a.m.
"Are you following him?" "Yeah" "We don't need you to do that..." is very explicit. I'm not sure how it could be more explicit in fact. That trial is over for sure. However, the situation still raises important questions about our society and laws. Also, it's a bit disingenuous for you to call me out with "get over it", when actually it was genetracy who brought it up.
a2citizen
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:15 a.m.
Jaime, Just because you keep saying it will not make it true. Zimmerman was not explicitly told to not follow his eventual attacker who, incidentally, was in the market for a gun. Zimmerman was found Not Guilty. Get over it.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:06 a.m.
Jay Thomas, gated or not, it's not a crime to walk through a community - particularly if you are staying there (which he was, with his father's girlfriend). Martin had every right to be in the community. There is no evidence that Martin was "looking through windows", other than Zimmerman's claim. Even so, Neighborhood Watch are explicitly told *not* to follow "suspects". Zimmerman was also explicitly told not to follow by the dispatcher. He refused to identify himself to Martin. Anyone being followed by a person who refuses to identify themselves is being threatened. There is a strong possibility Zimmerman ran up to Martin. Martin could have very easily been "standing his ground". Note that I didn't bring up race in this discussion like the both of you have. Anyone, regardless of race, is going to feel threatened when being followed by someone who refuses to identify themselves.
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : midnight
genetracy, bringing up "Jesse and Al" and "Stand your Ground", then, saying it doesn't matter is a bit ill-conceived. Martin wasn't alive at the trial to say he was "standing his ground".
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:49 p.m.
Jaime, George Zimmerman was picked by his neighbors (in a mixed race community) to be part of the neighborhood watch. He had every right to follow and watch what was going on inside that gated community. It's not even like following someone on the street considering its behind a gate. He didn't call the police until he saw Martin looking in people's windows by the way. He did nothing wrong.
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:44 p.m.
"Stand your ground" was not an issue in the George Zimmerman trial. The defense stated that before the trial and it was never brought up. The case was based on self defense and the jury agreed. The only people who have a problem with "stand your ground" laws are Al, Jesse, their groupies, and the media.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:16 p.m.
genetracy, you say "The robber announced his intentions by walking in the door with a mask on and holding a long gun." I think "Jesse" and "Al", as well as many other people around the country, would argue that a guy following a young man while refusing to identify himself is "announcing his intentions".
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:40 p.m.
gentracy Assumptions are tricky, but these pathetic creatures just need a fix and aren't looking for a homicide conviction.
Mike
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9 p.m.
genetracy - they're working on getting rid of the stand your ground law so you'll just have to wait until you are attacked or shot to see if you really have a case for self defense. Just fearing for you life won't be enough anymore. The robber may not have even planned or knew how to use the gun but you will have to wait and find out once the law is changed.
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:36 p.m.
Well KM, that is the best case scenerio. But how can we assume the intentions of masked criminal holding a gun are honorable?
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:19 p.m.
genetracy I agree with your last comment, though I'm not a fan of arming everyone. One lesson is that if you are an armed clerk, your piece better be loaded and you can't be afraid to pull the trigger. I rather admire the guy on Broadway who, without setting down his cigarette, pushed the open button on his cash register and kept his hands in the air. Very little money, probably, and no death.
genetracy
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:07 p.m.
The robber announced his intentions by walking in the door with a mask on and holding a long gun. Actually today was his lucky day because the store clerk would have been justified in dropping him on the spot like a sack of wheat as soon as he walked in the door.
Richard
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:01 p.m.
What would have happened if the robber also "stood his ground" ?
whojix
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:53 p.m.
What's going on in Pittsfield Township? Seems like robberies are way up lately.
joe_blowisback
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:41 p.m.
To be fair, that store is essentially in Ypsi.
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:22 p.m.
haha, I got voted down. Guess I should have referred to Moral Decline and What is Our Country Coming to? haha
KMHall
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:04 p.m.
Are more people feeling poor, disenfranchised, desperate, and reckless? Abusing more substances? It all kinda goes together.
Tim Hornton
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:28 p.m.
I got "called out" a couple weeks ago on this comment post (regarding closing of ypsi/arbor bowl) for saying I was a liar and would have never have gotten robbed when I lived behind ypsi,arbor bowl because those thing don't happen there. I also made a reference to the "G"Side liquor store too. I responed back by telling the person they were the liar because nobody would be proud to live over there. I think I was just proven right with this. I got out of that area as fast as I could, even sued the apt. Place and got what I want after their attorney called and caved in. The maintenance guy there had his daughter killed in a trailer park that year too around Ypsi, she was only 15. It was on the front page of the AAnews that summer. I think it was the summer of 2006. Word to the wise, don't move to ypsi or that side of pittsfield just to save a buck or two. Before you know it you'll need a gun to stop yourself getting robbed with a gun.
Ypsituckyguy
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 2:39 p.m.
Apparently the people trying to paint this area as Leave it to Beaver land don't spend much time reading the crime section of this website. It isn't the worst spot in the area, but I can recall a TON of violent crimes, breaking and enterings, and thefts that have been reported in this are on this site in the past year alone. Just because it isn't happening to you, doesn't mean it's not happening to many of your neighbors.
vintagetimes4me
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:15 a.m.
We're very happy over on this side of Pittsfield, we have the BEST neighbors in the world and everyone watches out for everyone else here. Crime happens everywhere. Don't let this keep you from this side of town, living off of Golfside & Ellsworth is a wonderful place to call home! Furthermore the new subdivision starting home price is 250,000 -- it's not cheep living here.
DwightSchrute
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:11 p.m.
I'll support you, Tim. Yes, everyone, crime does happen everywhere. But bouts of crime most certainly do occur more frequently in this area, to the point that McKinley Properties has spent lots of money trying to improve the images of its rentals in that area and shoo away the riff raff as best as possible.
tdw
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.
Nicholas.....I find your comments comical and I find it comical that you think that it's a bad area
KateT
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:13 p.m.
About "saving a buck or 2" in east Pittsfield, I'd love to live on the other side of Pittsfield or even Ann Arbor proper. Just send me a buck or 2 or 50,000 in care of the ".com"; they know where to find me, and I'll be all set. Otherwise, I'll be working hard to try to keep my east Pittsfield place and will be grateful to do that.
SEC Fan
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:07 p.m.
Guess I don't understand this post. I cannot imagine anyone saying there is any area on this planet where crime "couldn't" take place. Even Beverly Hills has crime: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Beverly-Hills-California.html
Nicholas Urfe
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:20 p.m.
That is a bad area. I find it comical that anyone would dispute that.
tdw
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:37 p.m.
Tim..that was me and I stand by my comments.Places and bad things happen every where.That place was robbed YEARS ago.I've never had a single problem there and I walk over there quite often.As far as that poor girl goes if its what I'm thinking of that happened about as far away from that area you can get without leaving the county.Again if its the case I'm thinking of it was a personal beef between two kids and she got caught in the middle
Truthisfree
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:37 p.m.
You are broadstroking an entire community. What is your view on the medical school student found dead, ruled a homicide, in Ann Arbor near the hospital and school of Nursing. Don't live on N. Ingalls or go to Nursing school because you could end up murdered? What about the Chase bank that was robbed at gunpoint on Stadium on the West side of Ann Arbor? Should the residents cringe with fear because a bank was robbed? You had a bad experience where you lived. Things are happening everywhere because it is the times we are living in.
A2brooksie
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:33 p.m.
Does this comment make sense to anyone??? What's your point?
you can't handle the truth
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:25 p.m.
What a great story!
jjc155
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 5:57 p.m.
Good for him (the clerk)
Frank Lee
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 5:56 p.m.
The Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy With A Gun
Rob
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:19 p.m.
In Ann Arbor, this isn't correct. In Ann Arbor, The Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy Saying Please No Please Let Me Go Please!
Jaime Magiera
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:50 a.m.
Explain your position to all the people who have been harmed by pulling out weapons when they shouldn't have or had their own weapons misused (accidentally or intentionally). I have no problem explaining to someone that weapons should be used sparingly in a sane society.
CPLtownie
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:27 a.m.
Jaime - explain that to the 2 dead kids in the dollar store. Sorry but if someone pulls a gun on you, and you hope for the best rather than fight for your life, better prepare your family in case you made the wrong choice.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:19 p.m.
I should add that the machismo I referred to the other day in the other arms-related story is evidenced in this thread. Instead of taking a balanced approach of weighing pros and cons in a situation, the attitude of "just use your gun" highlights an attitude that is unhealthy and unsettling. Likewise, people read into my comment on possible dangers as criticizing the shop owner - which clearly it was not. There's a certain blindness that comes with fear.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:15 p.m.
a2citizen, gun safety classes can't tell you what the other person is thinking, what their skills are, how determined they are, now out-of-their-mind they are, what customers' reaction might be to having a second weapon pulled or if your weapon will jam. (I grew up just south of Detroit in Lincoln Park, worked and played in the city, and was privy to lots of violence growing up - hence my concern. I've seen escalation.)
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 11:06 p.m.
Jaime, I'm an electronics engineer, systems administrator, I listen to a lot of music (just not on the radio). I grew up in Detroit so I understand and respect the mindset of a law abiding citizen who has decided to arm him/herself against violent criminals. Your list of what "could have" happened is covered in the first two minutes of any gun safety course and I'm sure the clerk weighed those possibilities against a possible Dollar Store outcome. And when you are on the wrong end of a barrel it's really not that complicated.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:06 p.m.
djacks24, depending on circumstances, letting the robber do their thing and leave (statistically, most grab-n-run armed robberies don't lead to the perpetrator killing the victim). Note that this is exactly what banks and other types of businesses train their employees to do. If someone wants to take their chances, and it's just the victim and the robber in the room, that's one thing. It's another thing if other lives could be endangered. It's hard to know all the factors, and it's certainly hard to weigh them all at that moment (Again, I'm not being critical of the shop owner in this case). However, I think it's dangerous to just always assume one should pull out their weapon and confront the robber.
djacks24
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:51 p.m.
"At any rate, note that I didn't say the store owner shouldn't have protected himself. I said there are possible complications with the decision to pull out a weapon." "Note that I didn't say either way what the store owner should have done." Kind of limits his options doesn't it? Having a hard time like I am figuring out what a safer alternative might have been?
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.
genetracy, apparently, you are having a hard time comprehending what was written. Please point to where you think I condescended or criticized the store owner and I'll point out where you're wrong. In terms of having a 6th sense about being a victim, that's erroneous. Most people *don not* carry weapons in this world. A significant portion of those people at some point are a victim of a crime (most people are). That doesn't necessitate getting a weapon or blindly promoting their use without critical thought.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:28 p.m.
Nicholas, I'm suggesting that in any situation involving weapons, all factors should be considered (as opposed to the "The Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy With A Gun" approach). Note that I didn't say either way what the store owner should have done.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:26 p.m.
a2citizen, I'm a computer programmer, system administrator, music performer and radio show host. There is no need for me to pull a gun on someone. I have intentionally chosen paths in life that preclude that possibility. At any rate, note that I didn't say the store owner shouldn't have protected himself. I said there are possible complications with the decision to pull out a weapon. Those complications should be considered in any situation where weapons are involved.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.
A2brooksie, you're making a could-have argument as well.
dading dont delete me bro
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:27 p.m.
best odds are being judged by 12 than carried by 6
Nicholas Urfe
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:21 p.m.
@Jaime Magiera: Are you suggesting the clerk should have instead laid on the ground, begged for his life, and hoped for the best?
SEC Fan
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 8:02 p.m.
@A2brooksie...isn't your argument a "he could have" argument? Interesting how it only works one way...
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7:30 p.m.
It sounds like the Frank Lee's of this world are not going to rely on the Jaime Magiera's of the world to defend them against violent criminals.
djacks24
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 7 p.m.
"He could have gotten himself killed. He could have gotten patrons killed." Could have, should have, would have... But instead, he defended himself and his business. Thwarted a robbery. Didn't hurt himself or anyone else. Possibly protected patrons to his establishment and others in vicinity. Bad guy with a gun + a good guy with a gun doesn't always = shootout.
A2brooksie
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:32 p.m.
Jaime Magiera, I disagree this is a dangerous approach to life. I love the "he could have" arguments about what could have happened because someone defended himself with a gun. In fact, he did not get anyone killed. Had he not had a gun, the attempted robber "could have" killed the merchant. Let's not minimize what could have happened had the victim not been able to defend himself!!!! The fact that the robber was immediately scared away ended any other possible "could haves" had he had felt he was safe to!!!
you can't handle the truth
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:27 p.m.
The store owner of the liquor store on Packard near Platt (another one of many high crime areas around here) wears his pistol in clear sight on his belt. No one is going to mess with that. This guy might want to think about doing that too.
Jaime Magiera
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 6:23 p.m.
That's a dangerous approach to life that leads to an escalation of violence and weaponry. No thanks. In this case, a store owner who has goods and services, and is stuck behind a counter exposed to the public, has legitimate reasons to have a weapon on the premises. There are some complications with that though: He could have gotten himself killed. He could have gotten patrons killed. In other words, it's not really as cut and dry as "good" and "bad".
Ricebrnr
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 5:50 p.m.
Wait, this can't be right? Someone defended themselves with a firearm but without firing a shot? Why per the commentors here, c'est impossible, INCONCEIVABLE! To the clerk, good for you!
Renee VanEpps
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 1:35 a.m.
HA !! Spot on Ricebrnr!!! My sentiments exactly :)
Mr. Ed
Thu, Aug 1, 2013 : 12:51 a.m.
If good people arm themselves we will have less crime. I bet the bad guy's will stay away from that place. Great job to the clerk.
cinnabar7071
Wed, Jul 31, 2013 : 10:21 p.m.
And on top of that he didn't shoot himself as the commentors said was more likely to happen.