Deputies investigate shooting of 2 swans near Manchester
Two Saline teenagers remain under investigation after two swans were shot and killed Sunday in a lake at a Manchester Township subdivision, Washtenaw County sheriff’s deputies said.
The swans were shot about 4:30 p.m. in the 18000 block of Timberlake Road, sheriff’s department spokesman Derrick Jackson said.
Deputies received a report that two men were shooting near the swans and stopped a car on Austin Road that matched the description a car seen leaving the area, Sgt. Tom Pennington said.
Two teenagers, ages 17 and 18, who were in the car, said that they were target shooting on the shore of the lake and didn't intentionally shoot at any swans, Pennington said.
Investigators seized two .22-caliber rifles from the car, some ammunition and then let the teens go as the investigation continues, Pennington said. Deputies are seeking to determine whether the swans were deliberately shot and whether shooting is allowed at all near the lake.
Sue Allen, who has lived in the neighborhood for 14 years, said she enjoys spending time at the man-made lake, where she's also seen bald eagles and great horned owls. If the teenagers deliberately shot the swans, she said she would be outraged.
"A lot of migratory birds come through that area," she said. "It's a real quiet, peaceful place."
Lee Higgins covers crime and courts for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached by phone at (734) 623-2527 and email at leehiggins@annarbor.com.
Comments
Sue A
Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 2:35 p.m.
For those inclined to cite the Fox News 17 (Grand Rapids) report that the DNR plans to kill 13,000 swans... I don't know how Fox News came up with this. If you read the actual DNR document, it mentions that there are approx. 15,000 swans in the state as opposed to some 5,400 in year 2000. There is nothing in here that I could interpret as killing 13,000 swans. Read the DNR's actual report for yourself at <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf</a> This sort of "reporting" is ridiculous and just creates hysteria (though it likely does improve ratings, which seems to be what "news" is all about anymore).
Marilyn Wilkie
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 3:24 p.m.
I doubt the DNR is interested in punishing anyone who kills mute swans. It would just make their job easier since according to this article they plan to kill 13,000 of the 15,000 said to be in Michigan. <a href="http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-dnre-to-kill-13000-mute-swans-20110207,0,7359423.story" rel='nofollow'>http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-dnre-to-kill-13000-mute-swans-20110207,0,7359423.story</a> .
Sue A
Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
I don't know how Fox News came up with this. If you read the actual DNR document, it mentions that there are approx. 15,000 swans in the state as opposed to some 5,400 in year 2000. There is nothing in here that could be interpreted as killing 13,000 swans. Read it for yourself at <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf</a> This sort of "reporting" is ridiculous and just created hysteria (though it does undoubtedly increase ratings, which seems to be what it's all about anymore).
Sue A
Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.
I suspect that the manner in which this was reported, as if the DNR is planning to slaughter 13,000 swans, is misrepresentative of the DNR's plans. First, I believe their plan is long-term not going out on a mass cull. They may want to reduce their numbers by that percentage and 15,000 may be the current percentage. But that does not equate to a mass extermination of 13,000 swans. Typical news media twisting of facts in my opinion.
Marilyn Wilkie
Fri, Oct 14, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
Sue and David, you miss understand me. I am sickened by the killing of these swans, the swans at Scio Church and Parker and all other slaughtered animals. I am not against hunting but this situation seems to me to be pure cruelty. I don't think you feel the killing of 13,000 swans is a good idea either.
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 8:12 p.m.
Oh David you crack me up.
DavidA
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 7:38 p.m.
I think you are missing the point, Marilyn. If two teenage boys were standing in your backyard on your private property aiming rifles in the direction of your house (where your children play) illegally shooting swans, I don't think you would be worrying so much about the relative value of mute swans versus trumpeter swans. In any event, it is the sheriff's dept that is interested in this case, not the DNR.
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 3:55 p.m.
I hardly think teenage boys with .22 rifles in a neighborhood with children are what the DNR would think would be an acceptable / safe method...
threads
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 3:45 a.m.
Is there more to this? I reported a dead swan in the pond at Wilderness Park in Saline (off Saline-Milan Rd) about 6:30 pm Sunday. I'd heard shots earlier in the day as I live not too far from that pond. The swan's body was still there on Tuesday afternoon but is gone today. Apparently I wasn't the only one who called and I did see a couple of folks with cameras at the pond. I was told that the DNR was contacted but that the police don't retrieve deceased animals. Seems bit odd that 3 swans died on Sunday - even if they were in different places - Manchester isn't that far away. I wonder what killed that swan. It was part of a family of 2 adults and 3 cygnets hatched this spring. When you drive down Saline-Milan you usually see them together. Anyone know who to contact at the DNR to find out why that swan died? Or even if the DNR picked up the body?
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:25 p.m.
DNR site has this listed: Mute Swan Management. Contact: Barbara Avers, 517-373-1263. Decision-makers: Natural Resources Commission and Chief of Staff.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.
Mermaid, maybe the CDC would be interested...perhaps they died of Avian Flu....
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:04 p.m.
I think the main difference is that the young men in Manchester were seen shooting the swans by neighbors and were confronted. If there is no evidence of how the swans died or anyone having done something, it would be difficult for any authority to do anything about it.
mermaid
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 11:33 a.m.
I reported a dead swan at North Lake. This is not far from Manchester. I reported to the DNR, and the Sheriff. I got nothing but sarcasm from a rude woman who was totally unconcerned at the DNR. You might want to call the Poaching Hot Line. But expect no help, however if they get enough calls they might put two & two together. The body is still there in North Lake as of last night.
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 2:55 a.m.
Listen here people. Get your facts right. Yes it is dangerous to shoot over water but making a big deal about these MUTE swans which are an invasive species is ridiculous. Oh BTW the DNR that you guys are all so proud of.... read this.. <a href="http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-dnre-to-kill-13000-mute-swans-20110207,0,7359423.story" rel='nofollow'>http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-dnre-to-kill-13000-mute-swans-20110207,0,7359423.story</a> yeah thats right. now why don't you go complain to them about killing the swans? oh are you scared? to easy to pick on these kids? and to the lady who said it is illegal to shoot any WILD swans in michigan... you are right. but only WILD swans. MUTE swans, which were killed here are not wild. they were brought in by people who had them as pets which is why the DNR is killing 90% of them. so I am interested to hear what else you people have to complain about these days. OH also... here is a list of the protected animals in michigan....enjoy <a href="http://web4.msue.msu.edu/mnfi/data/specialanimals.cfm" rel='nofollow'>http://web4.msue.msu.edu/mnfi/data/specialanimals.cfm</a> yes that is correct... the MUTE swan is not on there which is why the DNR is killing 90% of them. so in my opinion these boys are helping out the DNR. so why don't all of you complainers reward these boys for helping out society. and if your going to argue this.... get some facts first. Thanks
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 2:23 p.m.
As I said earlier I do not support the cruelty of this and the teenagers shouldn't have done that. Yes they should probably be fined and what they did was stupid. I am curious as to how the DNR views this case because the kill the same birds but I'm sure in a safe manor. You can get a permit to rid these swans so I'm guessing the penalty will be something along the lines of hunting without a license. I'm sure these boys will learn their lesson after they get a talk by the DNR and the fine.
DavidA
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.
Not wild? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? These are not domesticated swans. They are wild breeding swans that return to this lake every year. Perhaps you mean they are not native? Guess what? Trumpeter swans are not native either. The records show that there were no nesting trumpeter swans in Michigan until captive breeding pairs were introduced. They would occasionally pass through on migration, but that's it. There are no native breeding swans to Michigan. Please educate yourself. Having written that, the issue is not what species of swan this is. It is the act of cruelty and legality. Perhaps you haven't read all the posts here, but there are two small children that live directly across the lake from this incident. And two more young teens that live on the next parcel over. Re: population control. We also have a major problem with feral cats and dogs. Shall we arm teenagers to go out and shoot any unleashed dogs and cats on sight? I am sure it would be lots of fun for them. Oh, and dogs and cats aren't native to Michigan either.
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.
Latest writing I could find from the State DNR on mute swans: <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/02-11_Mute_Swan_Mgt_INFO_12_13_10_340677_7.pdf</a> "Mute swans and their eggs and nests may be taken by department personnel...", etc. We clearly have a known problem with mute swans in Michigan, but reducing and controlling them needs to be handled responsibly.
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
Interesting question. I do not know. I suspect there is some legal beagle definition some place... I agree with you that mute swans are a nuisance and should have their numbers reduced (along with Canada geese, which ironically were endangered back in the 1960s, feral wild boars, etc.) but I don't think two teenage "boys" with .22s are a safe way or reasonable way to go about it in a populated area. If these young men want to shoot and kill animals, there are plenty of legal and acceptable ways to do that.
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1:08 p.m.
If a person releases a house cat and it breeds are those cats considered wild? These mute swans were not here naturally. I'm more confused as to how they are considered wild. Is it because they are outside? What is the determining factor
Sue A
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 1 p.m.
I think you are confusing wild / invasive. These mute swans were wild, therefore illegal for a citizen to shoot. If the DNR culls them, that's a different issue legally. Yes, they can legally discharge a firearm but not recklessly in a populated area. There are safe ways to fire a .22 and this is not one of them. I think the fact they were arrested and their weapons confiscated speaks to that.
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 12:32 p.m.
yes it was very irresponsible & cruel and 100% uncalled for i do agree with that. I do not support that these kids did this. I am just tired of all these people you hear on the news that say everyone should do jail time for everything. These boys should be fined like $500 a bird and be warned to not do it again or there will be more consequences such as jail time.
mermaid
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 11:26 a.m.
You have a really sad attitude about killing, the facts are that 2 irresponsible & cruel kids shot a pair of swans. I feel very sorry for you. And, I did report to the DNR. Get your facts & your attitude corrected.
Steven
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 : 2:57 a.m.
Also... these boys were not in city limits so it is legal to fire a firearm so don't try to argue that
DavidA
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 8:49 p.m.
There is no hunting allowed in the community where this occurred. There are small children that live on the opposite side of the lake as these irresponsible teenagers were shooting. A .22 caliber rifle slug can carry a mile. This lake is approximately 100 meters in width. The swans were a breeding pair of Mute swans which return to this lake every year. The teenagers left behind an orphaned hatching year juvenile. Regardless of what you think of Mute swans, this behavior is despicable and dangerous.
Sue A
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 8:34 p.m.
I am Sue who is quoted above. I would like to add that I have no issues whatsoever with hunting. If these young men would like to hunt, by all means, get a LEGAL hunting license, go to a LEGAL spot, and go for it in a safe way. However, this was not hunting, nor was it an accident. It was blatant butchery by brutal young yahoos that just wanted to kill something. My children, husband, and I were all deeply troubled by this incident, as are all of the neighbors I have talked to. I hope these young men are punished to the full extent of the law. I think they have a serious lack of compassion let alone common sense. Some additional comments: 1) This is a deed-restricted, no hunting area. 2) The lake covers approx. 25 acres. You tell me how you could "accidentally" shoot and kill two swans that happened to be on the lake while "target shooting". My eye! 3) These were mute swans, however, regardless of species, it is currently illegal to shoot ANY swan in the State of Michigan. Reference: <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_10859_12402-31228--,00.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_10859_12402-31228--,00.html</a> 4) The two swans killed also had a cygnet (baby) which survived. 5) There is a family with small children directly across the lake from where these young men were shooting and many other families walk in an around this area, canoe, etc. regularly. This was downright irresponsible besides being illegal. 6) A number of years ago, one resident family (not mine) had proposed making discharge of a firearm in the neighborhood illegal but was overridden by a vote of the homeowners' association. Sue
Ron Granger
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
Good grab by the police.
mermaid
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.
Lee Higgins: Why was my report of a similar incident 2 days ago at North Lake near Chelsea removed? How could this possibly be offensive to any one? Perhaps the guilty party? This was an important addition to this story, and perhaps the residents of North Lake could be alerted to the possibility of someone shooting these beautiful birds on their lake.
Marilyn Wilkie
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 10:41 p.m.
mermaid, she removed my post too. It was not offensive imo. No rhyme nor reason on this site. I simply said if they were target practicing, they must have been using the swans as targets. The article did not say what they were using for targets.
pbehjatnia
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 11:46 a.m.
Please prosecute them for animal cruelty. Is hunting without a license also an option? Make it an unforgettable experience, please.
RJA
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 3:56 a.m.
Accidentlly my foot! Waiting to hear after the investigation is complete.
KINGofSKA
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 2:50 a.m.
Wait, they were let go? I know you have to be 18 to own a gun a riffle, but I thought if you were underage, you had to shoot with someone over 21? So if true, shouldn't they be in trouble for that, and not "let go"?
Ricebrnr
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
Age Restrictions On The Purchase And Possession Of Firearms The purchase, sale, possession and transportation of firearms in the United States are regulated by tens of thousands of federal and state laws and local ordinances. Many of these regulations impose greater restrictions upon persons below certain ages, with age cut-offs ranging from as high as 21 years of age to as young as 12. Most federal laws regulating firearms are included in Title 18 of the U.S. Code -- the Gun Control Act (GCA, 1968) as amended by various subsequent laws, including the Firearms Owners` Protection Act (1986), the Youth Handgun Safety Act (1994), the Gun-Free School Zones Act (1996) and other laws. Details on federal firearm laws are available from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. (<a href="http://www.atf.treas.gov)" rel='nofollow'>www.atf.treas.gov)</a> Federal law imposes the following restrictions aimed at younger persons: A person must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition, and 18 years of age to buy a rifle or shotgun or ammunition, from a retail firearm dealer. (GCA, 1968) A person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun ammunition, and it is illegal for a person to provide a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18, except for target shooting, hunting, or certain other exempted purposes. (Youth Handgun Safety Act, 1994) It is a federal felony to provide false information (such as lying about one`s age) to a firearm dealer, to deceive the dealer into selling a firearm to a person not entitled to make the purchase. (GCA, 1968) Regardless of age it is illegal to possess a firearm on or within 1,000 feet of school property, with limited exceptions. (Gun-Free School Zones Act, 1996) <a href="http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=43" rel='nofollow'>http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=43</a>
silverwings
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 2:10 a.m.
Saline again. Something's seriously wrong there.
Sallyxyz
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:16 a.m.
More thuggery by "kids being kids." If these punks did shoot the swans, they need to serve some real jail time. Slaps on the wrist just don't cut it.
treetowncartel
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:07 a.m.
Are you on vacation Riceburner? Perfect opportunity for one of your posts.
Ricebrnr
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 4:26 p.m.
No just surprisingly haven't seen anyone bash the guns as being irresponsible yet so I didn't feel the need to add my input. For the record though and as always, if they are guilty as charged then I hope they are indeed held to the fullest extent of the law.
EightySeven
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 12:43 a.m.
Glad to see the Great kids of Saline putting their community in a another great position. Let me guess these are great kids just wanting to have good clean fun.
Mr. Ed
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 11:18 p.m.
What is it with the youth of Washtenaw County and the Foul killings.
DBH
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:30 p.m.
Or the foul fowl killings.
LaMusica
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 11:11 p.m.
How awful!! I can't really see how this was unintentional!! :(
Tesla
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 11:09 p.m.
More Saline "kids being kids." "rolleyes"
cibachrome
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 10:27 p.m.
It is well known among duck and goose hunters as well as waterfront property owners (like myself), that swans of any model, chase away geese and ducks, thus they are unwanted by hunters on a body of water. I would not accept the target practice statements. A .22 near water is very dangerous. Go look for their hunting licence records. That will tell you whether the boys or family members are really after geese or duck hunting , and are/were bothered by the swan's presence. On my pond, there have been repeat offenders caught and prosecuted several times for shooting and killing swans. It doesn't stop them.
DavidA
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 8:52 p.m.
There is no hunting allowed at this lake. These kids were out to "have fun" killing something.
stevek
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 10:25 p.m.
Was the vehicle used a Hummer?
Ben Connor Barrie
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:46 p.m.
Here is the important question: were the swans the invasive mute swans (Cygnus olor) or the native trumpeter swans (Cygnus buccinator)? If they were the invasive mute swan, good riddance. Make the kids do some habitat restoration as part of their probation and maybe a firearm safety class. If they were the native trumpeter swans, then that's pretty bad and up to the courts to decide.
DavidA
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 8:54 p.m.
Shooting swans in Michigan is illegal, regardless of species.
Loves2Cook
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 1:42 p.m.
Regardless of what type of swan they killed -- these young men were WAY out of line for shooting in this area! If they want to shoot in an exclusive country subdivision, let them do so in their own town! Stay out of ours!
djacks24
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:25 p.m.
Must have been the same "couple of kids" that had something to do with the football game because all the Saline parents will tell you Saline is where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."
A2Since97
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:34 p.m.
Thanks, djacks, for the recap on the Saline High School student's article! I haven't had a chance to read all of the 207 comments, and since I stopped at this article first, you saved me a lot of time! :D
BHarding
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:23 p.m.
Yes, they knew they weren't shooting at cans, or a tree stump. Swans, as far as I know, are not game fowl. Very bad decision on the part of those young men.
Tru2Blu76
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:21 p.m.
Go out west about 3 mi. then north about 2 miles from the location of the alleged shooting, you'll find a nice Michigan State gun range. (in Sharon Valley Game Management Area) Five miles: and there's your safe, legal spot for target shooting. And - according to legal convention, shooting a gun "at water" is considered to be reckless use of a firearm. (Very likely such shots will ricochet off the water and become potentially deadly projectiles "down range" somewhere.) And that's not to mention the "idea" of shooting in a populated subdivision. BTW: it's small game season. Get a license, go to an area where game shooting is allowed. Hunt - don't "assassinate" swans and other NON-game wildlife species. That's my advice to those two young men and I HOPE it'll be the advice of the judge who hears their case. Young men - and good decision making - are an oxymoron.
Sue A
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
AMEN Tru2Blu76!!!!! My family (including kids and pets) live "down range" of where these morons were shooting.
Buster W.
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9:03 p.m.
Accidentally shot one swan with a .22? Unlikely. Two swans with a .22? Come on!!!
Sue A
Wed, Oct 12, 2011 : 9:05 p.m.
On a 25-acre lake... We heard the shots / were probably around 7-10 shots.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 9 p.m.
Maybe, just maybe, with a shotgun you accidentally hit what you're not aiming at. But with a rifle? I don't think so.
Kara Marie
Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
/sigh/ again..