Mark

Fri, Oct 15, 2010 : 7:53 a.m.

A mom's view said that the average high school start time is 7:15 to 7:45. Where are you getting that? I just did a simple google search "average start time high school" and got one goofy link to a page by a group called "chacha" that said the average is 7:45-7:55 (but they don't seem reliable by any means) and then several links to articles by respected groups saying kids need more sleep (like NPR and ScienceDaily). And if you change the spelling to "highschool" every single link is about students needing more sleep and later start times. Please share your source for that statistic, so people reading your comment can get a feel for it's accuracy. Just putting numbers out there isn't really that helpful. Especially with a statistic that broad and overarching. I'd really like to see where it's from.

dexmom

Wed, Oct 13, 2010 : 10:09 a.m.

Sure overcrowding is getting better and the pick-up and drop-off times are becoming more consistent. However, even with my kids sitting in the seat behind the driver they are still hearing stuff they shouldn't be hearing. And I'm referring to my 5-year old that is hearing disgusting things from the middle schoolers. I'm already aware that my 10 year old hears, and probably says things, but I would have preferred to spare my 5 year old from the vulgarity she has heard. I do appreciate the districts willingess to listen to parent concerns. I'm still at a loss though as to how this is saving the district money. With winter looming ahead I'm curious as to how all this will play out with traffic and sub zero temps. If the kids can't go out for recess due to the cold, how will they walk to and from the hubs? And yes my kids are exhausted and have regular consistent bedtimes. I don't feel good about picking my kids up and only spending 2 hours a day with them so they can get 12 hours of sleep. I would like to spend time with my children every night going over school work and learning about their day not to mention bath time and bed time routines that take upwards of an hour. The bottom line - I'm failing to see how the single tier system is benefiting the district, but most importantly the kids. Again, cut from the top. Stop taking from the kids....

A Mom's View

Tue, Oct 12, 2010 : 10:29 a.m.

I am a parent who LOVES the new bus schedule and system. I do not work for the schools, any public school for that matter. My middle school student gets a bit more sleep in the morning. Her 5th grade brother has made the adjustment to earlier times as well. My 7th grader LOVES the walk in the morning, she feels that it wakes her up and she is ready to start class. Our bus ride to school is short (we are the last ones on.) The ride home a bit longer because we are the last ones off. Yes, we live about 10 minutes away from school but the buses have to have a route so even though we live within 10 minutes the bus ride home will take longer. Some days when I'm in town I do pick-up. But the bus home is convienant and consistant! When evaluating the amount of time students are on the bus parents really need to take away the "hub time" where students are getting a ride to the bus hub or walking from their school to the hub. The buses do not pull out until about 3:20ish. I've volunteered at the hub both am & pm and have observed students enjoying this time at the hub. They are talking with friends, goofing around and having fun. I know when the weather changes it will be cold but their attitudes do not have to change and be grumpy, they can stay positive! The system has smoothed out and kids know what they are doing now. There is a group of creekside kids who help the younger kids - what a great way to teach leadership and responsibility. Even kids who aren't part of the "patrol" are helping when needed and just being nice to the younger kids. The Dexter students are learning about community through this bus hub and in all communities there are positives and negatives. The buses where the conversation is an issue needs to be delt with. I've found though, that it isn't always the older kids. I've heard of issues with 4th & 5th graders in the past so having the mentality that it's all the older kids fault is flawed. I don't want times to go later, it would put a kink in after school sports schedules and how Dexter schools work with other districts. Whether you like the new system or don't lashing out at anyone doesn't help. This is the sytem we are working with. How one parent deals with bed-time is not the issue. How each family is dealing with the change in time and schedule is a family matter and does not need to be part of the discusion. FYI The average start time for a high school is between 7:15-7:45. Dexter schools started at 7:25 (which means kids were getting to school at 7-7:15am.) Their bus rides came VERY Early!

Kathleen

Tue, Oct 12, 2010 : 10:11 a.m.

FYI: Yes there were at least 12 drivers hired and more in the process. These drivers will get full benefits in 60 days. They will have benefits until the contract is decided next June, and then probably not. A lot was said at the transportation meetings about how much the "dead head" miles 2 per bus per day needed to be cut because it was so wasteful. This year busses are not using Baker Road to go back to the lot, they are using Dexter Ann Arbor Road to Zeeb to Marshall coming in the back way --certainly a longer distance than 2 miles. This year: The no walk zone = no savings. Savings from dead head miles = no savings. Savings from decreasing drivers pay(hours) by 25 to 33 % is much less than the cost of and increase in numbers of new drivers, training and benefits for this year. (NO SAVINGS) But wait until next year, when you take all the benefits away from the employees you will save $480,000 and then some. If this doesn't matter to you, that the school treats its staff employees this way, while teachers and administration benefit from the cuts, have it your way. This is a moral issue in many ways. Budget Cuts are bad. Community within a school means such drastic cuts should not happen to any one sector of employees, but a less drastic cut to all. Is transportation and its employees worth anything? If not, lets get rid of the whole system and save the District a bundle!

Kathleen

Tue, Oct 12, 2010 : 10:10 a.m.

FYI: Yes there were at least 12 drivers hired and more in the process. These drivers will get full benefits in 60 days. They will have benefits until the contract is decided next June, and then probably not. A lot was said at the transportation meetings about how much the "dead head" miles 2 per bus per day needed to be cut because it was so wasteful. This year busses are not using Baker Road to go back to the lot, they are using Dexter Ann Arbor Road to Zeeb to Marshall coming in the back way --certainly a longer distance than 2 miles. This year: The no walk zone = no savings. Savings from dead head miles = no savings. Savings from decreasing drivers pay(hours) by 25 to 33 % is much less than the cost of and increase in numbers of new drivers, training and benefits for this year. (NO SAVINGS) But wait until next year, when you take all the benefits away from the employees you will save $480,000 and then some. If this doesn't matter to you, that the school treats its staff employees this way, while teachers and administration benefit from the cuts, have it your way. This is a moral issue in many ways. Budget Cuts are bad. Community within a school means such drastic cuts should not happen to any one sector of employees, but a less drastic cut to all. Is transporatation and its employees worth anything? If not, lets get rid of the whole system and save the District a bundle!

Dexter Mom Sandi

Sat, Oct 9, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.

Sure most kids can get up at 7:15, but to get to catch a bus by 7:15, you have to get them up by at least 6:30. that's too early. From an article by a pediatrician: "Not surprisingly, sleep deprived children tend not to do well at school. Other symptoms of sleep deprivation in children include the obvious ones such as fatigue, inattentiveness and listlessness. There can also be less obvious symptoms including irritability, impatience, fussiness and even aggressive behavior. I think we have all experienced these feelings at one time in our lives. Chronically sleep deprived children(and adults) experience these daily." Read the whole thing. It's really good. http://www.drpaul.com/library/SLEEP.html

A Dexter Person

Sat, Oct 9, 2010 : 9:25 a.m.

When I say "inconvenienced every person in the district". I am referring to the new 1 tier bus system. I believe more parents are driving their kids than before! Every student, parent, family, teacher, staff, commuter, etc. had to change their routines and schedules - except administrators. The traffic on Baker, Dexter-A2 and Parker is worse than ever. I have to leave 1/2 hour earlier than last year to get to work because of the traffic back-ups. Why on earth would you have our schools that are clumped together and surrounded by the main roads start at roughly the same time? The traffic is horrendous! Knock on wood there hasn't been a major accident that would tie up traffic even more!

A Dexter Person

Sat, Oct 9, 2010 : 9:10 a.m.

There's an email circulating that states that Dexter got about $500,000 back from the state, (~$150 per student). The School Board & Administrators cut back the bus drivers' hours which equal a 25-33% pay cut per driver, yet they hired more drivers to cover all the extra routes they created. (Imagine 25-33% less income in your household.) They inconvenienced every single person in the district except themselves. The new teachers' contract states that if there is money left over at the end of the year, the teachers get it because they didn't get a raise. Hmmm, cut back transportation to save $400,000, cut back other support staff, get 1/2 mil back from state, dibbie up $1,000,000+/- amongst the teachers. Priceless! How about the administrators take a 25-33% pay cut and dibbie that up too?!

Go Blue '02

Fri, Oct 8, 2010 : 10:45 p.m.

From the Dexter Leader: It used to be that we were happy when the state gave money back, she [Mary Marshall] said. That isn't always the case these days. Although it's a single payout, the money "will restore them to where they were before budget cuts last fiscal year." http://www.heritage.com/articles/2010/10/08/dexter_leader/news/doc4caf38830e148423835024.txt Mary Marshall thinks that sometimes it's NOT a good to get money back from the state? Won't this money help with the transportation mess? Pay back the retirement payout fund? Even if they just save it for a rainy day, it's a good thing. Sure it's a single payment and now they have to (get to?) decide how to spend it, but why wouldn't she be happy? Why are school officials "grappling" with the money? Is it because now the transportation changes weren't necessary? And now there's egg on their face? Dexter sucks these days. I want a new superintendent. And a bus pick up time that makes sense. @DAWN Are your kids also hearing the F word daily on the bus? Mine are. They are old enough to sit in the middle of the bus, so they have to sit and listen to that crap.

momwith3

Fri, Oct 8, 2010 : 5:46 a.m.

I have a 5th grade student in Dexter and next year a K student. I have no problem with the new bus schedule. I like that all the kids in the neighborhood are riding the same bus and that the older ones are there to help the younger ones. My son (and next year my k daughter) get on the bus at 7:15 and are home around 4:00. The kids can get enough sleep if they go to bed on a consistent schedule. Most young children are ready to be up by this time anyway. School has only been going for 1 month, how about giving the district a chance? Things have gone fine with us, with little complaining about the bus ride.

proudparent

Thu, Oct 7, 2010 : 6:24 p.m.

Agreed Brad! The ride time is to long. These children are riding for an hour and maybe a little longer at times. Thats a long ride in a car sometimes, without having to maybe stop to use the restroom even occasionally. The younger children are riding even longer than the older ones! This is completely backwards. Im wondering how much longer it will be before teachers start calling parents telling them, their children are tired, falling asleep in class, or even worse, falling behind with class requirements and participation. Children shouldnt have to be restricted in any vehicle this long. Bottom line, i would be driving them. Shame on whoever thought of this ridiculous plan.

Mark

Thu, Oct 7, 2010 : 7:26 a.m.

"Or I can take an hour to drive them two miles from our house to school in the morning like the bus and we can talk then." You crack me up, Brad. Too bad it's actually true.

BradP

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 10:46 p.m.

Proudparent, exactly! I like my kids. I want to eat dinner with them. I want to take them to the library to pick out books and maybe play a game together. But since I get home at 6:30 and dextermom says it's all my fault they are tired, I guess I'll just blow a kiss to their little sleeping selves when I get home. We can get reacquainted on weekends. Or I can take an hour to drive them two miles from our house to school in the morning like the bus and we can talk then. We have lights out at 8:30, and we enforce it. But I'm not going to spend less than 2 hours with my children per day. Especially when one of the hours is lunch packing and bedtime routines. Shame on the school board, shame on the superintendent and shame on the athletic director. You've got it backward. I don't care if the whole world is doing it. It's not right for Dexter.

Barbara Read

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 10:19 p.m.

We may or may not be stuck with the single tier and 7am bus pick-ups, but to say it's desirable or healthy or good for the kids is just not true (with the exception of grades 5-12, but ONLY IF their parents can drive them--they'll get more sleep). The rest of the district is just fodder for the upper grades' after school sports schedules. I still find it hard to believe that a 15-20 minute shift is not possible. Just because parents are over-scheduled and running on fumes doesn't mean our children have to be. And yet, in Dexter, it seems they do. Come on, Mary, give us a few extra minutes before the busses come. Would it be that hard to do? The single tier is driven by budget cuts, but what's up with picking children up at 7am? What's up with starting school at times proven to lower grades, attendance & attention spans, while increasing drop-out rates, tardies and illnesses? I don't think that's what we need when the drop-out rate at DHS has gone up consistently EVERY YEAR for the last four years. (Sorry, Mark, I don't know if any drivers were hired for this year, and I agree that there's no need to say mean things. That won't solve anything.)

proudparent

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 6:03 p.m.

@dextermom What happened to 12 hours of sleep a night for children to have a good sound productive day? That would mean my kid would have to go to sleep at 6:30pm. When does dinner, bathtime, quality time, and winding down time happen? At 5:30 when i get home from work, or when i quit my job to make sure he gets right home at 3:30 from school? LOL! This is to early for younger children, especially a kindergartener! I dont like the system their using, kids need to be with children in their own age groups riding the bus. Not listening to high school and middle schoolers talk about girlfriends and boyfriends, partys they went to over the weekend, or any conversation that could involve vulgar or obscene language. Thats really the whole point. The age groups are on different levels. I would worry about bullying, and maybe older kids soliciting some "not so good things" to these younger children.

Mark

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 4:47 p.m.

And actually, peer pressure is just being influenced by peers. It's neither good nor bad, and it requires no action on their part. So yes, looking at other districts and being influenced by what they do is peer pressure. I think Brad was saying that "because other people are doing it" isn't the best argument for doing something. Are there other reasons you have for liking the single tier other than "because most other schools have one bus run"? Sorry-I know this is lame-but, if all the other schools jumped off a cliff, should Dexter also? I know that this is basically an anonymous forum. But I don't appreciate your biting sarcasm. It's not helpful. And it's unkind. It's a legitimate complaint to not like having all the ages on one bus. It would be better if they could be separated. It's a legitimate complaint to want the buses to come later/have shorter ride times. Kids do better with more sleep. Why are you so mad at the parents who are unhappy? Don't we have a right to defend our children and expect answers to our questions from the school board? You should know that being on the school board is not carte blanche to do whatever you want. Again, why are you so mad at us?

Mark

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 4:18 p.m.

The district bought three more buses for around $150,000 total. And I assume someone is going to drive them. Sounds like more buses and more drivers. I heard the bus drivers were going to have to find other jobs because being employed for under 4 hours a day was not enough work to make a living. And a friend's daughter was going to apply for a job as a dexter bus driver, but right before school they still didn't have the routes finalized. It was such a mess she changed her mind. It makes sense that driving all the students at one time would take more buses than making two or three runs. Unless the buses are overcrowded and kids are sitting 4 to a seat. Oh wait, they are. Dextermom you may be correct. Does anyone know if additional bus drivers were hired? Barbara?

dextermom

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 1:44 p.m.

BradP - something is only peer pressure if you do it because other people are doing it. If you do it because it makes sense to do, then it's learning from other people. Are you saying we would need to purchase more buses and hire more drivers? Gee, that's not what the Dexter bus drivers who were at the school bd. meetings were saying. Yes, sure would be nice if we had public transportation. Anyone going to the meetings this week and next in Dexter on regional public transportation?

BradP

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 11:35 a.m.

Going to a single tier is not a move forward. Struggling school districts or ones that don't have enough riders use single tiers. I don't see Ann Arbor doing that any time soon. You must purchase more busses and hire more drivers for shorter hours. Then the busses just sit there all day doing nothing instead efficiently driving more than one bus run. I am going to be very interested in the meeting where they reveal how much money they are saving. Is it true that the state is now giving $154 per student back to the schools and that it's close to 500k for Dexter. Seriously? Dextermom, just because other districts are doing it doesn't mean that it's a good thing. Isn't that peer pressure?

jns131

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 8:29 a.m.

Ann Arbor a long time ago use to do this. Then they separated the three levels. They should do what Dexter and Chelsea and Saline do now. Combine them. Ours takes a public bus. Too much hassle for a school bus and plus we know when it will arrive and get her to school on time. Good luck Dexter. It is crazy when consolidation looms.

dextermom

Wed, Oct 6, 2010 : 7:30 a.m.

proudparent - how much sleep your child gets is in your hands. Make his bedtime earlier. It's your routine and expectations that have the greatest impact on his readiness. Dextergirl1989 - most other school districts have one bus run. Their children are not falling apart, in constant need of defense and therapy. You say you "remember" - how did your parents handle it? Do you think your child is not hearing that language other places besides the bus?

Dextergirl1989

Tue, Oct 5, 2010 : 8:01 p.m.

I feel their should be more worry that children at young ages are riding on school buses with high school children. I remember how the high school kids treated the younger kids and the language used. Plus for a bus driver to control kids aged from about 6-17? Is this safe?

proudparent

Tue, Oct 5, 2010 : 9:24 a.m.

Wait, did i read right? Are k-5 starting school at 8:15am now in Dexter? Wow, i couldnt have my child go to school in that district. He would be to tired! Having to wake up at 6:30am if he had to ride the bus. Insane!!!! What happened to 9am, Bell ringing at 8:50?