Rork Kuick

Fri, Dec 3, 2010 : 1:57 p.m.

Maybe there was not enough time to organize the switch to semesters, since class choices occur pretty soon. I admit I am just figuring, since I believe the only reason actually given in the letter was "we have decided", which didn't really enlighten me.

chalkboardjoe

Thu, Dec 2, 2010 : 10:03 p.m.

As posted on AnnArbor.com just 4 days prior, "Dexter High School will likely switch its academic calendar back to a semester format after three years of using trimesters, school officials say. A final decision on the switch is expected to be made soon and put in place for fall." And the following in a letter, dated November 21, 2010, from Kit Moran, "This scheduling committee took the new What, a seven period semester schedule, to the teaching staff November 9th. First the teachers voted to affirm that they wanted to move away from trimesters. Next, they voted overwhelmingly in favor of some sort of seven period schedule. 53 out of 59 (89%) teachers voting voted for one of two variations on a sever period schedule." The word "sever" you just read in the last sentence is shown as it was actually written by Mr. Moran to all parents. And Mr. Moran goes on to say in this article about Dexter now not switching to semesters but instead staying the course with trimesters, "...and we are committed to honoring the work of their recent scheduling committee and looking for better alternatives to our current schedule." I thought Mr. Moran said just a few days earlier that the scheduling committee voted overwhelmingly to switch to semesters...huh? Dexter's version of who's on first, second or was it third base comedy routine? Reads like it. Absolutely hilarious and almost as funny as the original routine except we are talking about the real life actions and statements by the people responsible for educating children and preparing them for college and a secure place in the "New World Economy." Of course the other act in this whole exercise in futility deserves credit. As reported in the Dexter Leader yesterday, "Board President Larry Cobler said the decision was not due to outside pressure from parents who were against the program. There are always going to be people who oppose this program, Cobler said. We need communication and additional input. Say what?

chalkboardjoe

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 11:06 p.m.

Band slams...not if one really read what was written. One commenter stated "The value in trimesters is to the low achieving student who has to repeat classes, because trimesters provide more opportunities to repeat a failed semester. Thus, the schools cater to the lowest achieving students to look good with high graduation rates." Who is slamming who? Dexter sold the trimester plan as an opportunity for AP/Band students to have more opportunities to take other classes and not for the benefit of the "low achieving" student. Kids that may need to repeat a class should have every opportunity to do so in a public school district and are not necessarily causing a rise in graduation rates (as claimed by one commenter)as the data for Dexter (4th year of trimesters) could be interpreted otherwise. The comments in the post addressed the needs of all kids who are deserving of an education to prepare them for college...not just the AP kids. The point was also made about those who are upset (comments in IB and semester articles) that band/music would be getting less time per day if the change from trimesters to semesters was made. The discussions on classroom time would seem more appropriate if comments were addressing the academics (which I agreed good points had been posted) and not the arts (substitute athletics for those who would choose that as an issue to decide the length of a class). Like any other interest in school (art, debate, sports, club activities, drama, theater, etc.), band/music plays an important role in the educational process. Having a child that played in band, our child benefited from the band experience and many other experiences at school. The grading is what it is, just like a grade in gym. The effort in either the arts or athletics should not (and was not) be diminished. Math, language, science, math, etc.; the grading in those classes shows mastery of the subject, the ability to go onto the next level and should be the sole reason to establish the length of marking periods (quarters, semester, trimesters, etc.)and the length of class time learning academics.

stunhsif

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 10:15 p.m.

SemperFi said: "Arguments against Year Round Education: Studies have been inconclusive to its academic benefits. Students are going to forget information whether they are out of school for 3 weeks or 10." So all the posts here to date are stating the students cannot remember information after three weeks and you state there is no difference between three weeks and ten weeks. First off,students are not off 10 weeks, they are off 12 weeks. Common sense tells all of us that after several weeks we begin to lose information we have learned unless we continue to test ourselves. The same goes for teachers in education, if not more so. The older we get the harder it is to retain information. Year round education is good for all. Summers off is stressful for parents as those with younger children have to find full time day care for their kids. Most parents have less than 2 weeks paid vacation and other than that, they are paying someone 40-50 hours a week during the summer for day care. If school were year round, their daycare costs would be a lot less.

sweet_life

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 10:12 p.m.

Agree with queenmom on the subject of band slams - the kids I know who spend four years in music programs are bright, highly motivated, and hard working. Expectations are very high in the local music programs. Given the work involved, there aren't a lot of poor students biding their time in music just to pad their GPAs. I see that kind of commitment as a plus when I am looking at a resume.

queenmom

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 5:37 p.m.

Band slams are unnecessary and irrelevant to the article. The CHS band program actually benefits from trimesters, as the move to trimesters resulted in a 5 hour day, with longer classes, and band is a 3 trimester class.

chalkboardjoe

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 5:29 p.m.

@queen mom-the rise in graduation rates may have helped Chelsea, but not so in Dexter as the rates have dropped from ~98% to just over 91% in the last few years. What I find so curious are the numerous comments that reference the impact on AP/Band. I can see the importance on those taking AP and a lot of good comments have been made highlighting the importance-but I must add the reasons are just as equally important to those students who are taking classes that are not AP either (all the comments are on both ends of the bell curve, yet none about the average student who is just as deserving to be prepared for college). But band is being used in the same sentence? Never met anyone who didn't get admitted to college because they had band for less than an hour per day instead of a 70-80 minutes. Come to think of it, never met anyone, nor did I ever turn someone down for a job because their band classes were not long enough. It is a great class-just make sure you showed up, turn in your practice minutes and attend the shows-getcha an A everytime just like the first chair kid who had real talent. No brainer to stay in band to keep the GPA up when you don't so well in the real classroom and want to get admitted to college.

queenmom

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 5:05 p.m.

Chelsea moved to trimesters 2 years ago, and it has not been beneficial for the students wishing to take multiple AP classes.They are 3 trimesters long and when combined in a schedule with 1 or 2 2 trimester long classes, students end up having to fill an hour in a trimester with a random class that has no value to them. At the same time,in a school the size of CHS (and DHS isn't much bigger), the same students taking a low value, random 1 trimester class had to choose between AP classes because they "had" to be offered the same hour. The value in trimesters is to the low achieving student who has to repeat classes, because trimesters provide more opportunities to repeat a failed semester. Thus, the schools cater to the lowest achieving students to look good with high graduation rates. Expect more decisions like these, as our new governor forces a business model on a people/relationship based organization like public schools.

averagetaxpayer

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 2:25 p.m.

Foreign language students suffer greatly from the trimester schedules as it's possible for a student to have over an eight month gap between courses. A student may have, say Spanish II, in the first and second trimesters of a year, ending around mid March, and then continuing on with Spanish III in the second and third trimesters of the following year, beginning about the first week of December. That is about 8 1/2 months between classes. Please, would some educator out there explain how this is a good thing?

SalineFan

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 11:54 a.m.

@sweet_life Ditto with Saline schools. AP/Music - 3 tri. Speaking of AP classes... Michigan schools starting after Labor day puts our students at a huge disadvantage. Schools in other states have a 2 or 3 week head start. The AP exams are in early May. I know it might not seem like too much... but have your kid come home the first day of school and hear how far behind they are.

Indicat

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 11:22 a.m.

sweet_life - At least at Dexter, AP classes and music are three term classes.

SemperFi

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 10:20 a.m.

The subject of year-round schooling is often bandied about. There are many arguments for either side of the discussion. From a purely economic standpoint it will increase costs for school districts to go year-round, so there are no immediate cost savings. Arguments for Year Round Education(using Multi-tracking): Students tend to forget a lot during the summer, and shorter vacations might increase retention rates. Schools that are not being used in the summer are inefficient. Short breaks can provide time for students to receive enrichment education. It's easier to schedule vacations because not everyone wants to travel at the same time. Other countries around the world use this system. More students can be accommodated at one school through multi-tracking. Arguments against Year Round Education: Studies have been inconclusive to its academic benefits. Students are going to forget information whether they are out of school for 3 weeks or 10. Teachers will be performing four beginning of the year reviews instead of just one. Summer programs such as youth camps suffer. Student summer employment will be virtually impossible. Many schools are older and do not have air conditioning. Band and other extracurricular programs could be hurt because of problems scheduling out of school practices and competitions. If the entire school district does not go year round, parents could have students at different schools on different schedules. With multi-tracking, parents could have students at the same school on different schedules. It's not as simple as saying, "Let's make them go year round."

Rork Kuick

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 10:02 a.m.

There may not have been any evidence provided in favor of the trimester system in the first place. Could someone teach me: I see Pioneer and Huron High have schedules of 7 periods, with the day starting at about 7:40 and ending about 3:30. That's a full hour longer than the schedule in Dexter (8:00-2:51). What problems are created? Are many Ann Arbor students are not in school for the 7th slot of the day? How do teacher's feel about the length of the day? How many of the 14 slots per year do the teachers have classes to teach? How influential are they in the decision making? In Dexter there's been talk of a 7 period, 2 semester schedule, but the exact schedule proposed is unknown. In a "write as little as possible" culture (about important things), I'm left wondering what the motivations are.

sweet_life

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 9:42 a.m.

I have no idea what the appeal of trimesters among District Administrators is. I assume there are some money savings involved somewhere since money seems to guide most decisions these days. I would be perfectly happy with a switch to year-round school. However, I also understand that this option would not be universally popular among all families, the tourism industry, etc. Trimesters make the summer gap problem worse by lengthening it or adding a second substantial gap during the school year. This is the issue that we are discussing here.

sweet_life

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 9:27 a.m.

Dexter and Saline folks - I agree that the biggest problems are the gaps and disconnections that occur, but I am also curious how your Districts deal with AP and music classes. Are they three trimester classes?

stunhsif

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 9:20 a.m.

So someone please tell us why all these school districts went to trimesters if they are such a disaster. As well, based on these "long term gaps" causing learning issues then school should be 12 months a year with no large gaps. That would benefit the students the most based on what everyone is saying below. It is interesting that folks posting here did not respond to the issues caused by summers off?

Indicat

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 9:15 a.m.

I just wish they would have listened to the parents when the idea of trimesters was first introduced. All of these issues were brought up, but we were told how wonderful and beneficial trimesters would be. I'm just sorry it took three years for the administration to realize it wasn't working.

SalineFan

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 9:09 a.m.

I agree with @4x4Saline.... the trimester schedule is "absolutely nuts". The pressure of exams 3 times a year is unreasonable. I like the idea of a structure that helps the students & teachers form relationships. Right now I do feel like it is a little robotic and formulaic. Teachers don't have enough flexibility to teach the material "the way they want". They might want to extend the curriculum and add their own spin but, they can't. The end of the tri is always looming. Bummer Dexter... I was rooting for your semester - 6/7 period.

dextermom

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 8:08 a.m.

I agree that stunhsif doesn't really seem to have any grasp of what the problem is, the separation of 2 parts of Algebra II being a good example. The overriding problem is that the trimester system isn't working. But the FOCUS of the committee is looking at ways to improve it for YEAR AFTER NEXT. Great. "Moran wrote that if the district comes across ideas that can be implemented in the 2011-12 school year, officials will not hesitate to use them." Big help. Why not delay scheduling for next year until this problem gets dealt with. Why do we have to be doing scheduling now? Why is it that my son will have gone through 4 years at the HS with a system that isn't working. Certainly not what I expected from a HS education.

4x4Saline

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 8 a.m.

Trimesters benefit no one! They don't embrace teacher/student relationships; by the time a teacher really gets to know the students, it's time to switch classes and a new group of students enter. At least in Saline, the morale has reached an all time low because teachers don't have an opportunity to really teach the curriculum because of trimesters being so short compared to semesters. The drive just isn't there. It's like they are robots teaching the subject without emotion. Trimesters are hard on the teachers and staff, and just as hard for the students who are forced to take exams 3 times a year versus 2 times a year. It's absolutely nuts!!! Teachers get deep into the core of a subject and then it's time to switch, and depending on the students' schedules, they may have one teacher the first tri and then get a different teacher for 2nd tri, or they may have to wait until the 3rd trimester before "getting back" to the original class they had 1st trimester and then half the time is spent "reviewing" what was taught the 1st trimester because kids lose information. Semesters really allow the students to learn the information and retain the knowledge from the same teacher, and it enables teachers to form relationships and bond with the students, which seems more beneficial for everyone. Teachers seem to put a lot more effort into making sure the students really get the information being taught because they have more time to teach it; it's not all being crammed down the students' throats inside of an 8-week period.

sweet_life

Wed, Dec 1, 2010 : 12:48 a.m.

@stunhsif - Maybe you should reconsider the knee-jerk response of assuming that any school related issue is more evidence that teachers are overpaid, underworked, etc. I am a Skyline parent and I hope that AAPS does a serious review of how the trimester system works at Skyline. So far, I am not convinced that it is a success. Gaps are too long (either very long summer gaps or an extra gap in the middle of the school year when courses are taught the first and third trimester) and fewer classes per day means it is harder to schedule required courses. The trimester system is supposed to result in more choices for students since they can take 15 trimesters of classes each year instead of the 14 that students get at Huron and Pioneer. However, it actually results in fewer choices for high achieving students who take AP and music classes because these are three trimester courses at Skyline and only two semester courses at the other two schools. I don't understand why Huron and Pioneer students are expected to be able to complete an AP course in two semesters, but Skyline students can't do it in an equivalent amount of time.

Theresa Bassett

Tue, Nov 30, 2010 : 11:29 p.m.

Say it plain has it correct. A kid could feasibly take Alg 1 during trimesters 1 and 2, take no math during trimester 3, head into summer vacation, and have no math again for trimester 1 of the next school year because they are scheduled to have their math class trimesters 2 and 3. Whew! I hope that made sense. They could go without any continuity in that subject (any subject for that matter) for approximately 36 weeks.

say it plain

Tue, Nov 30, 2010 : 11:11 p.m.

Actually, the 'gap' I believe refers to how on a trimester system, one can end up with a multiple-months-long gap between the two 'halfs' of a two-part course. So, a student can be taking algebra II, a two-term sequence, and have it scheduled for part 1 in the first tri, then a tri off, then part 2 in the third tri. That would entail a gap of about as long as summer vacation, and I can see where that would be detrimental, or at least where it would be perceived to be so. I haven't looked at the research on the question though.

stunhsif

Tue, Nov 30, 2010 : 11:03 p.m.

"Moran said that teachers, students and parents haven't been satisfied with the schedule for a variety of reasons. The reasons include a term-long gap in the middle of some courses, which can reduce student learning." So teachers don't like trimesters because of a "long term gap" in the middle of some courses that causes students to forget material. How long is the gap, two weeks? If that is the case then it stands to reason that the teachers should be for school all year long rather than having 3 months off for summer break. We all know how much the kids lose over those 3 summer months. I believe there is more too this than what has been written here and it is probably has to do more with the teachers not liking it than the students?