aataxpayer

Sun, Nov 1, 2009 : 11:21 a.m.

Dear Brit Satchwell, Efficiency should include buying the same health coverage for $1600/teacher less by cutting out the MEA middleman. Efficiency should also give employees more direct control over retirement money through 401K type plans rather than defined benefit plans that have high administrative costs. Efficiency should also include being able to fire teachers that commit felonies without spending huge sums of money to make it stick or resorting to transferring them to get them away from kids. Brit, the union is killing efficiency and I have no indication from you that your union is willing to address these issues unless you are forced to do so. Please respond. I'm still undecided but will vote NO unless AAEA expresses a willingness to address the inefficiencies without "starving the beast."

Mike Railsplitter

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 7:54 p.m.

Of course, having stepped down from the AnnArbor.com editorial board, Im sure that Mr. Berriz has no ties, friends or inside knowledge of how to leverage or flame the AnnArbor.com blog outlining the issue. Just for the fun of it, lets say that he doesnt, and, lets pretend, for the sake of my crafting an editorial creative work, that I havent read any of the earlier blog entries.. Personally, I am all for the individuals who are in danger of having their businesses taxed to help our community doing whatever they need to do in order to maintain their family fortunes and corporate well-being. Personally, however, I am not willing to excuse the broken bodies (metaphorical of course) of our children, who are being crushed under the weight of Mr. Berritzs, and the organizations he supports, arguments as to why $200 a year, on average, is too much to pay to replace the monetary support our children have lost in state funding.. The cost per student has been reduced well over $200 in the past 12 months, and our various communities children stand to lose that much again after the first of the year and again next fall based on projections from Lansing. I dont know how nimble the corporate structure of McKinley Properties is, but I wonder if they could weather and flex the tens of millions of dollars our schools are being asked to do without, not at the beginning of their budgetary process, but mid-year with personnel infrastructure in place and, more importantly, the children who are in place and feeling secure and safe in a community, which is what a classroom represents.. Lets view the potential situation if the millage doesnt pass this way, after all I did say I was crafting a creative piece: Each class has 25-31 students and an average apartment rented by McKinley properties, just for the sake of this argument, may have 2-4 tenants. Lets pretend we might have to close 200 classes across Washtenaw county, among all of the various school districts, if this doesnt pass. Youll notice I said close 200 classes, not let go 200 teachers, because teachers are people and community members and classes is a much less messy way of presenting the possible situation.. Lets then divide the tenant population of those 200 classes tenants by 4, and McKinley Properties would have to relocate mid-lease, 1500 units. Big PR problem if its McKinley Properties, but, well, too bad if it is 6000 some children who have no legal standing, not even the benefit of a lease agreement to prevent their living, and learning, situation from being adversely effected.. I wonder, as a side fair market value note, how much Mr. Berriz spends per month for his cable, his internet access or his cell phone. Whatever it is, Im sure he must consider it a fair price and a wonderful value, just as Im sure the $50,000 he has seen make its way to fund the 2 is too much (catchy slogan, by the way) is a great value versus how much McKinley properties could potentially be taxed to help our school children.. Children, unfortunately and obviously judging by his actions, add nothing to his companys bottom line. Too bad, or Im sure he would be full-press behind the millage initiative. Heck, he might not even have had to have stepped down from the AnnArbor.com editorial board. Im sure he misses the contact and influence he exerted over the well-being of Ann Arbor - the well-being of the business community that Mr. Berriz seems to value, that is.

katec

Sat, Oct 24, 2009 : 12:33 p.m.

A piece of information worth thinking about - in Ann Arbor, and probably elsewhere around the state, the school calendar is determined not by the school board or the school administrators but by the teachers' union contract negotiations. Why do we allow the union contract to dictate when our kids go to school and when they stay home? When school starts and when it ends? Who's in charge? I'm not anti-union nor am I anti-teachers. Nor am I anti-tax. And I'm perfectly willing to subsidize other elements of our society - I already do. It's just that this time, this millage is just throwing money at an inefficient, ineffective system that has never had to look at itself and see how it can - and must - manage its resources differently. Why do we not demand that our school boards and leadership challenge the MEA and its MESSA health plan - the richest in the state - and bring in less expensive plans? The status quo is not acceptable. We must defeat this millage and send the message to the school boards and administration that the trough is empty. Figure out how to do things more efficiently and manage the resources you have - kind of like the rest of us have to do every day.

Tom Bower

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 8:14 a.m.

sweetlou, I agree with your comment. Here's some information supporting the notion that public school academies (charter schools) are doing more with less money. The current law that prohibits public school academy students from receiving any of the general enhancement millage is discriminatory on its face and needs to be changed. What have WISD officials done to help change this law that discriminates in funding for public school students? These students are being treated like second class citizens. Information and Source: Michigan Charter Schools Do More with Less Source: Michigan Association of Public School Academies http://www.charterschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79&Itemid=44 Charters are doing more with less. 62% of the state's charter students are minorities, one of the highest ratios in the country and significantly above the state average of 26 percent. About 58% of Michigan charter students qualify for free- or reduced-price lunch. Charter schools receive a per-pupil funding of about $7,888. This is $1,198 less per student than all traditional schools statewide, and $2,576 less per student than the traditional district where the charter school is located. Charter total student funding is never more than what the local district gets. Charters are not allowed to levy millages or sell public bonds. In fact, many charters pay property taxes back to traditional districts. Michigan charters put their dollars in the classroom. Latest data from the National Center for Education Statistics shows 63% of all charter staff are in the classroom, directly helping children to learn. In contrast, the state average for all schools is 48% -- among the worst in the nation. According to the Michigan Dept of Education (MDE), charter school students in grades K-8 outperform students in similar traditional public school districts in 25 of 27 MEAP tests. Charter high school students have achieved an 86% graduation rate, 12% above similar traditional districts. According to the MDE, students in charter schools receive, on average, $1,778 less per year in combined state and local financial resources than students in host districts.

David Jesse

Wed, Oct 21, 2009 : 9:20 a.m.

I made this offer in a different thread and wanted to post it here as well. There's been a lot of data points thrown out in the various discussions. I'd like to gather it all in one place. If you have some data you'd like to share, please e-mail it to me, along with a short summary of it. I'd need it by Thursday at 8 p.m. You can e-mail me at davidjesse@annarbor.com.

AAJoker

Wed, Oct 21, 2009 : 6:38 a.m.

I thought about this topic all night and the question that keeps coming back to me is "how much is enough"? If we pass this millage, is this FINALLY the last time AAPS is coming back to the kitty? Or, is AAPS grossly overspending in relation to surrounding communities with equal test scores? I understand many people feeling "anything" for education, but that's about as responsible as given $100 in cash to your 7 year old for a months worth of lunches (you will quickly find it lasted one week and bought a lot of candy). As for people feeling the teachers are being attacked; I agree it might appear that way as the teachers are the most visible member of AAPS, however I believe the majority of comments are aimed at AAPS as a whole not just at teachers.

John Galt

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 11:05 p.m.

Fact is, we are in a Depression. If not the entire country, certainly in Michigan. Folks are having a hard time paying the daily bills. Government cannot squeeze blood out of a stone. Cuts will need to take place. Home values are falling. People are losing jobs and hours. Many do not have the benefits our "public servants" enjoy. Due to the high percentage of people in Ann Arbor who derive at least a portion of their income from the taxpayer (City, County, State and University employees) I can believe that they have an outside chance of passing this. As for those of us who are in the private sector (you know, those who pay your salaries), and understand that increased efficiency and cuts are sometimes needed to survive --enough is enough. I'm voting No.

larry

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 6:02 p.m.

A lot of private corporations are cutting jobs, lots of jobs, to meet their budgets. Are the City and County doing likewise to control expenses? Probably not. Why should they -- they have us as an income source. All they have to do is raise taxes (one more time). They built a largely unnecessary new high school in Ann Arbor, and spent millions in the process (paid for by tax increases). They could instead have quite frugally expanded Pioneer High at about a fifth of the cost. So now they need more money to pay for it all. Perhaps they should do like the rest of corporate America and cut their expenditures instead of raising taxes to come up with the money.

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 12:27 p.m.

According to this http://www.mackinac.org/depts/epi/fiscal.aspx Ann Arbor was far above Michigan average with spending per pupil in 2007-2008 at $17,386 per pupil vs. and average of $12,286 per pupil. Taking out the bloated construction costs and Ann Arbor is still at $13,012 per pupil compare to Chelsea at $10,126.

hollow

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 11:17 a.m.

Year round schooling is great for educational purposes but requires more money than the traditional school year... another reason to vote yes on the millage. To combat public opinion, the millage money is NOT going to increase teacher salaries it is to provide the same quality education that students in our county receive.

Stephen Lange Ranzini

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 10:45 a.m.

To me, it seems like everyone is putting band-aids on problems when the patient is dying. Why is the public education system failing the 21-23% of Americans who are not functionally literate? (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States) "This government study showed that 21% to 23% of adult Americans were not 'able to locate information in text', could not 'make low-level inferences using printed materials', and were unable to 'integrate easily identifiable pieces of information.'" Here is what I'd like to know. Even President Obama and the Secretary of Education have come out in support of eliminating the traditional summer vacation at schools (see http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_more_school) because it is now well documented that the long summer break is detrimental to the education of our youth. Talk to any teacher and you'll find out that they generally spend the first half of each school year reviewing what the students were taught the prior year. Malcolm Gladwell's current best-seller "Outliers: The Story of Success" has a chapter devoted to some of this research - it's an excellent read and I highly recommend it! His conclusion is that 100% of the achievement gap in school based on income levels is driven by the traditional school Summer vacation. So, what I'd like to know is why aren't our schools stepping up to the plate to fix the school year now that we know that it is the #1 cause that hinders childhood education? Why would we add more money to the system until we come up with a solid strategic plan detailing what resources it will take to fix this fundamental problem? Imagine how great our schools and MEAP scores would be if we were among the first to bite the bullet and step up to fix this problem? Imagine the positive impact on attracting jobs to our community and increases in home values if we had the strongest K-12 schools in the region on top of some of the best public universities?

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 10:38 a.m.

jhcer, You say the overcrowding was "obvious" yet when I spoke with a number of students from both schools they didn't feel any hindrance with the population as it was. Remember that the people trying to sell you these messages are personally invested in increasing the cost and impact of the school system. I like how you ask for suggestions on savings but promptly shoot down anything that is suggested. It is this type of "my way or the highway" attitude that will drive more NO votes. AAPS employees are not going to leave if they don't get their pay raise or have an increase in health care as they will still have some of the best benefits around and there are no jobs to transition to in the local area. It sounds like a horrible thing to hold this over a worker's head however the bad economy is reality and people everywhere are having to weigh lower wages and higher costs vs. the hassle to move to more prosperous areas/

DagnyJ

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 10:15 a.m.

I do think it's time to consolidate schools. I think closing CHS is not a bad idea.

jhcer

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 9:23 a.m.

Pioneer's enrollment was 2800+ students, higher than any other highschool in the state. (Huron's was 2000+ students). The goal of Skyline is to get that enrollment down to a more manageable 1700 students. I was told by numerous people that the overcrowding was evident the moment you walked down the hall. As I read that others mentioned, if you feel the money is misspent, become more involved to fully understand the issues here. Saying "Let's just close down CHS" or "Let's take away some of the teacher benefits" without really understanding the current situation, impact or consequences is irresponsible.

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 8:54 a.m.

jhcer If Pioneer was "grossly" overcrowded then why did only one class shift to Skyline? The fact is the population trend in the AA high schools had actually leveled off prior to the Pfizer announcement and has since dropped. The new high school could have been avoided thus putting us in a better budgetary environment now, instead the "anything for education" mindset took place and the easy route was taken (which then went over budget for building and now support costs). People are asking for efficiencies, how about we close and sell CHS and have those kids occupy space at Skyline? The property would make for some great condos.

jhcer

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 8:15 a.m.

I just want to quickly comment on a couple things. First: the economy has put stresses on everyone, but the teachers seem unfairly attacked here. They are the men and women who educate our children, yet all I hear is bitterness. The teachers earn their salary just like I earn mine. Most teachers I know work 10+ hours a day between teaching, lesson plans, parent conferences, reports, etc. Secondly, I don't understand the few comments sprinkled in about not needing a new highschool. Please refresh your memories on this, Pioneer and Huron (but especially Pioneer) were grossly overcrowded to the point that it was affecting their educational environment.

Jessica Knowlton

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 8:04 a.m.

I would honestly consider not voting for the millage if one of the opponents could show me a detailed analysis of what could actually be cut. All I ever hear is "they have too much money" and "they need to tighten their belts". Show me specifically how, where and why things should be cut. Give me a line item view and then you'll convince me. Until then, I'll be voting for the millage. I can see these schools need the money. It will cost very little to me, but mean everything in the world to the kids.

Lisa Starrfield

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 11:24 p.m.

Sweet lou, The state keeps telling us they are giving us x dollars per pupil. School budgets are due July 1 and we have to budget based upon what they promise. Then when the state does their budget they take back money they promised us; this year they are shorting us $165 per pupil They've done that for years, Even what they promise hasn't kept up with inflation since Prop A went into effect.

sweetlou

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 10:16 p.m.

As an active supporter of school choice, I am angry that charter schools, although suffering the same $165 cut in per pupil funding are not included in the county wide millage. How is it that so many schools/districts are able to provide quality education for their students without 6 millages? How are they able to do it at lower funding levels? As an AA resident, I'm tired of paying millage after millage to make up budget deficits. Time to make a budget and stick to it. I agree that the decline in state funding is damaging, but we're all suffering in these hard times, time to tighten the belt instead of putting the hand out yet again!

Tom Bower

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 10:13 p.m.

Here's an interesting development. If the legislature does not override the governor's veto, this will produce adverse affects for Ann Arbor Public Schools. Other districts in Washtenaw County will not be affected, however. http://www.freep.com/article/20091019/NEWS06/310190003/1319/Veto-slashes-school-aid

YpsiLivin

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:58 p.m.

Andrew, Even when you look at the entire cost of educating a child at a Catholic school for one year, it's still far lower (by thousands of dollars per child) than the per-pupil allotment that public schools are given. Catholic schools are more efficient at directing dollars to the classroom, focusing on basic education and weeding out unnecessary and overburdensome administrative expenses.

KJMClark

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:12 p.m.

I'm usually inclined to vote for school millages, not least because I have two kids in the AAPS right now and I have tremendous respect for the work their teachers do. I do have a question, however. We have seen a bidding war for "top administrative talent" throughout the economy, largely based on an economic bubble. I'm pretty convinced that in industry in general, and particularly in banking, the pay increases were completely unjustified. So my question is, how did school administration pay change over the past 10 years or so, and how much have administrators sacrificed to deal with this situation? What I would like to see is: - What was the percentage change in top administrative salaries in the past ten years and, separately, what was the percentage change in administrative costs? - How do those percentage changes compare to the change in teacher compensation over the same period? - How do those percentage changes compare to the change in student population? - How do those changes compare to inflation? I'll note that the question is relevant, because part of the role of executives is to plan for the future; in particular to see challenges such as this one and prepare the organization. If our districts aren't prepared, that is in part a management failure. I for one don't believe for a minute the idea that "no one could have foreseen this", since top economists like Robert Shiller, Paul Krugman, and Stephen Roach have been warning for years of the potential for problems much like this.

OverTaxed

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 6:34 p.m.

It Takes An Education To Spend Tax Dollar Efficiently

Tom Bower

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 5:38 p.m.

So, it takes a millage to educate our children. What about the 3,500 students attending public school academies in Washtenaw County? I guess they are not as deserving as those in the "local school districts?" The current state law governing the distribution of general enhancement millages denies equal protection to the students attending public school academies. Surely, if this millage passes there will be litigation concerning the constitutionality of the applicable state law.

YpsiLivin

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 4:25 p.m.

Ann Arbor, Chelsea, and Willow Run are out on November 3. Dexter, Lincoln, Manchester, Milan, Saline, Whitmore Lake, and Ypsilanti are in. According to the calendars of the affected schools, Nov. 3 is a "professional development" day.

bruno_uno

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 4:08 p.m.

I heard school is canceled this day? Can someone confirm or deny this? Is so, how convenient!

Designated Conservative

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 1:37 p.m.

I would like to thank everyone who has participated in commenting here, on my blog at http://dcon2012.wordpress.com, and on other sites. I have learned a great deal from reading your comments, and I've found the discussion to be lively but remarkably respectful. To those few who see this discussion as nothing more than "over the top anger," I say welcome to democracy at its local best. This is how it works, and works well in the long run. We don't all have to agree on anything as long as we respect one another's opinions, and our right to express them. I had expected rancor and nastiness, but have found virtually none, and you all deserve a round of applause for that. :)

YpsiLivin

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 1:20 p.m.

Andrew, Even when you look at the entire cost of educating a child at a Catholic school for one year, it's still far lower (by thousands of dollars per child) than the per-pupil allotment that public schools are given. Catholic schools are more efficient at directing dollars to the classroom, focusing on basic education and weeding out unnecessary and overburdensome administrative expenses.

katznjammer

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 12:32 p.m.

First, I am not a teacher. But my mother and sister were both teachers and I have friends who are teachers. From talking with them, I've learned that the teacher's union doesn't always speak for the rank and file. They've told me that they've never get asked what their ideas are for improving how they teach, improving the schools, working with students, and saving money. Why is that? Seems like the teacher's unions don't always have the teachers' best interest at heart and might be one piece of the pay/funding equation. Most teachers I've talked to agree that we should go back to a 6-3-3 system of dividing grades, which could be more cost effective and help solve some of the behavioral problems of having kids who are not quite mature enough lumped in with older grades. All tell me that they spend most of their class periods dealing with out of control kids, not all of whom come from broken homes or low incomes. All spend extra time outside of class preparing for their classes, grading papers, planning ways to get kids interested in learning. I'm on the fence about this whole millage issue because I was always told by my mother (who spent hours sponsoring extra curricular activities without getting paid any extra for doing so) to support the schools. I think for the most part, our teachers are hard working and increasingly stressed out and the schools are run by bureaucrats who haven't been in a classroom in years. But I also see so much waste--did we really need a new high school? We need to get some things straightened out about how we fund our schools and pay our teachers because I believe a longer class year is on the horizon if we want our kids to compete with the rest of the world. If I could be assured that my extra taxes would be spent wisely (and I'm not against sharing with Ypsilanti), I'd be for the millage. But I've seen too many times how our school board has run things and I haven't been impressed.

Andrew Thomas

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 12:01 p.m.

YpsiLivin: I think you misunderstood my point. I readily agree that Catholic schools provide a quality education, and I never said (or suggested) that Catholic schools do not "count". My point is that it is not fair to compare the cost of public schools to the cost of Catholic schools based on tuition payments, which do not cover all costs.

Lisa Starrfield

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 11:37 a.m.

A2Huron, You must really hate teachers and schools if you honestly believe that we are 'taking off' Nov. 3rd to vote. I don't think there is a school in the district that isn't used as a polling place. It simply isn't safe to have random adults roaming the building with students. Furthermore, many of our buildings don't have adequate parking for staff and voters. No, I won't be off on November 3rd. I'll be in Professional Development and will have to vote before or after work, just like you.

YpsiLivin

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 10:21 a.m.

Andrew Thomas said: "(Yes, tuition for Catholic schools is lower, but much of their expense is subsidized in one way or another by the church, so that's not a fair comparison). " Public schools are subsidized at 100%, so a modest subsidy by the parish pales in comparison to the local public school district. I'm sorry Andrew Thomas, but Catholic schools count. The reality is that Catholic schools provide exceptional value and produce measurably better academic performance than local public schools do. Even when you factor in the "subsidy" (which is far less than you might think), Catholic schools educate their students for a much lower per-pupil cost than public schools do. While the cost of tuition is a perennial struggle for some parents, a Catholic education delivers benefits that can last a lifetime. Strictly from an academic standpoint, a substantially higher proportion of Catholic school graduates enter and complete a college education. A study conducted at Georgetown University in 2008 concluded that elementary school students who attended Catholic schools perform better in high school than students who attended public schools and are more likely to attend college. Students who graduate from Catholic high schools have a 44% graduation rate from college, compared to public school graduates, who have a 28% graduation rate overall. I'm sorry, but the results of a Catholic education speak for themselves. If you really want to invest in your child's education, skip the millage and visit a parochial school.

A2K

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:56 a.m.

Having gone through the A2 public schools myself, I find it rather horrific that they are considered some of the best in the country.

David Jesse

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:11 a.m.

If you're interested in voting in a poll on this issue, click on this link: http://www.annarbor.com/news/enhancement-millage-to-dominate-washtenaw-county-education-news/

a2huron

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:03 a.m.

I would like to know if there has been any official action taken by the local MEA or the school district administration to mandate or otherwise "strongly urge" all teachers/school employees to get out positive PR about this millage, post comments on blogs such as this, or otherwise try to convince the community to vote for it. Are the schools collectively cancelling classes on November 3rd to ensure that everyone gets the chance to vote that day? Just asking.

localyolk

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:53 a.m.

My husband's pay has been cut to near nothing, and I am only working part time. My grade school kids are getting a solid education in Ann Arbor public schools. We are all struggling financially right now. Adding more taxes is a luxury we cannot afford. But most important, I do not understand all this over the top anger. It is a time to get along and work together rather than slash away at each other. I am voting no.

Designated Conservative

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:34 a.m.

"We assume every budget line item has been reviewed and set at the most effective level. Thats what we do with our own personal budgets and that is what we expect our elected officials to do. It is necessary for the school board and elected officials to explain the rationale of their decision making." Great thoughts, but not such a great assumption. Too many school boards have been politically "captured" by the Michigan Education Association (teachers' union), which is in the midst of a multi-year campaign to ensure that union-friendly board members get elected and anyone else does not. Also, the indirect and cowardly process by which this WISD millage came to be on the ballot effectively insulates local elected board members from such financial scrutiny. After all, I've already heard some folks on the pro- side of back off from responsibility for this huge tax increase by saying, "This is not our (local school) millage request, it's the WISD that's doing it!" Remarkable, considering that all of the local districts passed identical resolutions to force WISD to put the millage on the ballot.

KeepingItReal

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:30 a.m.

I am absolutely opposed to this millage. The fact that Rich Sheridan a local businessman supports it because it will help him to "grow his business." How selfish, and because Karen Cross a former school board president supports it does not add credence to it as far as I am concern. The AAPS, which apparently has taken a leadership role in this, cannot come up with a good justification for the millage other than its use of scare tactics. I know of several programs in the AAPS that can be eliminated without having a serious impact on the quality of student education and I'm sure the same exist in other school districts. I would like to see the schools eliminate some of their pet projects and get back to emphasizing the basic education of our students. Also, we have to remember that the County is instituting Act 88 which is a millage on all voters for their per projects as well as other municipalities including Ann Arbor are planning new millages. The citizens of this community can only be taxed so much before a real revolt takes places. I do not plan to support this millage.

limmy

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:26 a.m.

I am frightened by the people that want to reduce teacher pay and benefits. Personally, I want the teaching profession to be very attractive so that the best people go into it and stay in it. As far as charter schools go (lower paid non union teachers), they have a lot of problems. My children went to one and they had new, inexperienced teachers every year. Since transferring to AAPS their MEAP scores have gone way up. Charter schools have benefits but they are not the answer to everything.

DagnyJ

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:50 a.m.

It isn't about hating teachers. It's about the management of education funds. The teachers' union is part of the problem, although individual teachers are not.

aataxpayer

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:37 a.m.

Negotiations between the AAPS and the teachers union are held without public input due to state laws that punish the administration if the discuss negotiations in any detail. No wonder taxpayers feel left out of the process! State laws need to be changed to level the playing field. Unfortunately, our representatives (Warren and Brater in Ann Arbor) resist any changes. AA.com - where is the reporting on the need for state legislative reform?

Basic Bob

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:22 a.m.

The school boards need to hire administrators who can do their jobs instead of just blaming the unions, state legislature, and health care system, for all their problems. If they want to improve the efficiency of education, they need to reduce the number of bureaucrats in central services, and stop pandering to special interests such as alternative high schools. But then they know that as long as they overspend their budgets, taxpayers will have to cough up more money to cover the bloat.

Jimmy Olsen

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:18 a.m.

A2Adam - school district web-sites have a wealth of information on all the things you are asking, which are questions that are continually asked - but only when money gets tight. Otherwise, most people are apathetic and "think" the school administration and local boards are doing things in the best interest of the district. You can view local union contracts and other information at http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=10361

A Voice of Reason

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:09 a.m.

HERE IS THE PLAN: 1. The AAPS School Board negotiated a contact with the union that we cannot afford. Why did they do this? Good question. Someone needs to look into this one. It is called--renegotiation! 2. AAPS is purchasing Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) through the Michigan Teacher's Association(MEA) or MESSA Insurance. This is part of the teacher's contract. Why? MEA makes $1600 per teacher on this deal. If we purchased the same insurance from BCBS, we could save $1.9 Million per year. Why is this being allowed! 3. The local MEA representative makes $130,000 per year to make sure the teachers are taken care of in the contract negotiations. Do we have someone of equal pay taking care of our kids interests? PARENTS, WAKE UP!! WE NEED TO TAKE BACK CONTROL OF OUR SCHOOLS OUT OF THE HANDS OF UNION LEADERSHIP. Our great teachers are being taken advantage of too!

AAJoker

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:08 a.m.

I sure hope the voters will actually think about this millage rather than the "anything for education" approach that built an unneeded new high school without a proper support structure such that AAPS keeps coming back for more money. Before I would ever think about voting yes on this millage I want to see a full list of AAPS costs, any cuts made in the last 5 years and planned improvements in efficiencies. Along with this I want to know the next 5 years of contracted merit raises and other benefits that are directly related to dollars coming out of my pocket. It's time the school system began operating like the education business it is, not a holy island that will be funded irregardless of economy.

braggslaw

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:02 a.m.

This is all about funding the teachers union... not about educating children. So Yes, I see this as an US versus Them discussion, as them (the teachers) are try trying to take money from us (me and other taxpayers) to support their present lifestyle. The teachers union has a virtual monopoly on providing educational services to children. This monopoly gives them the market power and emotional power to keep asking for more tax dollars. They are not normalizing their health care or fixing efficiency problems. Their is also an over-supply of teachers in Michigan so even by reducing benefits there will be few who leave their jobs as teachers.

Jack

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 6:39 a.m.

I know....Dont fix the problem...Just throw more money at it. Honestly it will fix itself.......Honest This is just another example of whats wrong with this State.

A2Adam

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 6:34 a.m.

The fear mongering campaign is getting old and has to stop. For a community that prides it self on education, I am shocked that we are trying to make an important financial decision in this manner. On one side we hear that our children's education is going to suffer without more funding. On the other side we hear people are going to go bankrupt if their taxes increase. While both may be true, how are we to decide what action to take if we don't have all the facts to make an educated decision. If the county and its citizens are concerned about the quality of their education, then lets act appropriately when we are trying to determine a basic business strategy for our schools. Are there areas in the budget that have been overlooked or unscathed because of some political agenda? We assume every budget line item has been reviewed and set at the most effective level. Thats what we do with our own personal budgets and that is what we expect our elected officials to do. It is necessary for the school board and elected officials to explain the rationale of their decision making. Without it, how can we agree to give more money? Would you do the same with your teenager? Need more money? Well what did you spend it on? Is it appropriate? I'd like to see an article that highlights the current condition of the school district's financial condition. How much revenue comes in? What is the benchmark? What are the expenses? How do we compare with another district? How are the employees compensated? How does that compare with the average citizen? Before we are asked to contribute more taxes or before we ask others to do more with less, please share the facts so we can make a decision at the polls.

Jimmy Olsen

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 6:27 a.m.

aaretired - the $4000 you paid - was that for MESSA insurance? Part of that goes to support the MEA and their lobbying efforts. Imagine what you might be able to save if you had a competitive bid on insurance. Maybe they could even offer an Health Savings Account (HSA) plan, so that people can put their health care dollars in "IRA" type accounts and spend wisely. Iris Salters (MEA President) isn't on the Blue Cross board of directors for nothing.

DennisP

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 1:37 a.m.

Please excuse all typos in my response. It's hard to write inside the small rectangle AA.com provides for comments--especially at 2:30 am.

DennisP

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 1:31 a.m.

For many of us, it's simple really. Left-wing and right-wing rhetoric in these comments notwithstanding, I like many others have no choice. We can choose to be taxed and divert funds that we use to clothe and feed our children, house our families (not just mortgages, but rent too--taxes simply get passed onto renters), and pay for all the other taxes that we have no choice in paying. The vast majority of us are not well off. For those of us who have paychecks we are making it paycheck to paycheck. Others keep hoping that Congress renews the unemployment compensation payments. I dread every July and December when tax bills come in the mail. I've actively promoted any fund-raiser I could afford in years past (even when I was single) and try to generate as much as I can for those promotions from my child's school. I voted in favor of renewal millages in my district. If I had a billion dollars, I'd be happy to donate as much as I could to the schools. But, in this economy, I can't do it anymore. I've been cutting out as many expenses as possible in my home. I have to feel that schools are doing the same. I don't feel they are. I read news articles and comments like those of Mr. Rick Olson below and know that there are other things that can be done. This millage is over-sized and I can't afford it. So, very simply, I will vote no for this millage. For those who are upset about this, there is no law that prevents anyone in this blog who is in favor of higher taxes from donating their share to the schools regardless of the outcome of the vote. Go ahead--send in your $200-$400 extra, in fact, give another $200 for me if you can. If you can afford it, and it's important to you, go ahead. But, don't criticize the rest of us as some have in their responses start by saying we are shortsighted or imply we are greedy. We are families in a state with the worst unemployment and worst economic conditions in the nation--for a variety or reasons that are not relevant to this discussion. We need to budget for our own home first and foremost before we can extend any more largess to the community.

aaretired

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:26 p.m.

I paid over $4000 last year just for my health insurance as an Ann Arbor teacher. This was before any co-pays after seeing a doctor. There are several insurance options available. Let's make sure our facts are correct in the discussion, please.

dotdash

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:11 p.m.

AA only pays $9,600 per pupil? As a recent transplant from the East Coast, I have to say that that is very low. Take a wider look before you pillory the school district -- they are doing a great job with 60% of the money that the average New York school has. Maybe it's just the squeaky wheels that comment here, but it seems to me that no one should be complaining too much -- you are getting a great deal for your tax dollars here.

Basic Bob

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:10 p.m.

Let's see Ann Arbor Public Schools make some hard decisions before giving them more money. Now that Skyline is open, they ought to close Community High School. Community is a relic of the past and a huge waste of money for the privileged few.

dotdash

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:01 p.m.

What's with all the anger? When you walk into one of AA's public schools, you will meet kind people who have dedicated their lives to caring for and educating our children. Teachers are not "them" -- they are "us". They live in our community, they go to our churches, they shop in our stores, and they drive down our streets. Vote yes or no on the tax millage as you see fit, but let's not turn on ourselves and make enemies of our neighbors.

Andrew Thomas

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:53 p.m.

Designated conservative: Since when do private schools in Ann Arbor provide better academic results at the same cost as public schools? I just checked the web sites for Greenhills, Emerson, Rudolph Steiner and Clomlora. Tuition ranges from $11,275 to $17,700 per year per student. That's significantly more than the $9,600 per student cost for Ann Arbor public schools. (Yes, tuition for Catholic schools is lower, but much of their expense is subsidized in one way or another by the church, so that's not a fair comparison). And as for charter schools, MEAP results clearly show that, in most cases, the public schools are much better than the charters. Of seven charter schools in Washtenaw County, only one had higher meet-or-exceed scores than Ann Arbor Public Schools (that was South Arbor Charter Academy, to give credit where credit is due). One charter school was roughly equivalent to AAPS (Ann Arbor Learning Community, again, to give credit where credit is due). The other five were dismally lower than the public schools. Bottom line: Quality education is expensive. Ann Arbor has a superb public school system which, compared to the non-church privates, is very reasonable in price.

Jimmy Olsen

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:50 p.m.

eom, while true there are ups and downs to most professions, most are not protected by an out dated laws like the tenure law. There are bad teachers - they are just protected and mostly by the MEA. Check out the editorial in the printed edition today http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/opinion/15kristof.html As you drive through your neighborhoods - look to see where the vote yes signs are - teachers - they are convinced that this millage is the only way to continue their "entitlement". I'll bet if it passes the Ann Arbor teachers will be back at the table asking for enough to offset the 0% from this year.

braggslaw

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:47 p.m.

Alan, You have to come stronger than that. 90% of kids goto public schools and not charter schools. When they release the money to parents to goto any accredited school then we will be talking. Breaking the teacher's union will be the best thing for students and parents.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:43 p.m.

(3) Is there anyone in Lansing (from any party) really taking a stand on school funding reform? Is anyone talking about reducing the number of public school districts in the state?People could have school district consolidation, if they really wanted it. But when presented with the facts, they don't. http://jackshow.blogs.com/jack/2007/08/essay-school-co.htmlthe small Muskegon suburb of Montague. Thats just down the road from another suburb called Whitehall. These arent teeming metropolises. Both towns have fewer than three thousand people each.Yet, each has its own school system. That doesnt make a whole lot of sense, frankly. These towns arent large enough to give their kids a full range of academic choices.Back in 1990, those who cared about education were concerned about this. They decided to look into the possibility of consolidating the two districts. Their study was an eye-opener.If the school operations merged, their high school students would have more than thirty new courses to choose from. Middle and elementary school kids would get more, too.Consolidation was a no-brainer. They put it on the ballot, and the people overwhelmingly turned it down.Why? Football. They have a historic small-town rivalry going. Justin Flynn, who was on Montagues team then and still lives there now, tried to tell a reporter that We thought our education system was better than theirs.However, he added, Football is everything in Montague. Everything, that is, except education and jobs.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:41 p.m.

(2) Is the state considering taking out (taking back?) more than the $163/per pupil funding amount? I thought I had heard some talk of the state taking back even more?http://www.wwmt.com/articles/michigan-1368244-twice-0in.htmlOct. 16: MICHIGAN (NEWSCHANNEL 3) As lawmakers in Michigan continue to haggle over the state budget, Newschannel 3 is learning that school districts may lose twice as much funding as they thought.As it is, Michigan schools are losing $165 per child, but a recent memo from the State Treasurer shows the incoming K-12 budget is about $264 million off, because sales tax revenue numbers are out of whack.Governor Granholm says that if Republicans don't give up some ground on revenue issues, per pupil cuts could double.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:38 p.m.

(1) Does Ann Arbor (and other selected districts) still get more money per pupil than other districts ($2000 or so, I think)? Is there any chance of losing this extra funding if we still get it?http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/2009millage/school_funding"Some school systems, like Ann Arbor, that were already spending more than the state formula allowed in 1994 were permitted to collect the difference. For us, this was $1,234 per pupil, and it hasnt changed since 1994. Called the hold harmless millage, the tax rate required to collect this money has gone down as property values have risen over the years."This millage doesn't affect hold harmless.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:19 p.m.

wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that the Ypsilanti school district hired a new superintendent and agreed to pay him something like $150,000 a year?What kind of school superintendent could they hire for $40,000 a year? How little should Ypsilanti pay for a superintendent? Who would take the risk of working with a severely underfunded district with many special-needs kids and the very good chance of getting run out of town on a rail for the slightest misstep for less than the going rate for school superintendents? Would a $40,000 superintendent know how to reform Ypsilanti schools?

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:18 p.m.

"CER ranks Michigan's charter school law 7th strongest of the nation's 41 laws, with an overall grade of B."... http://www.edreform.com/_upload/CER_charter_numbers.pdf | Michigan: 250 charter schools, total enrollment 94,092. What monopoly? This is a tired untruth.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:17 p.m.

"I hate the monopoly that the public schools and teacher's unions have in education."http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/09/09/obamadayton.html?sid=101 | Obama proposes doubling federal funding for charter schools at Dayton campaign stop Tuesday, September 9, 2008 8:46 AM "Obama's plan would increase federal funding for the schools from $200 million to more than $400 million." What monopoly? There are charter schools and they are funded with state and federal funds. They are not normally unionized.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:13 p.m.

"On the other hand, taxpayers are tired of funding defined benefit pensions for the public sector when they have been basically eliminated in public sector jobs."http://www.educationreport.org/pubs/mer/article.aspx?id=10454"Though both are administered through MPSERS, school employee health and pension benefits have different legal status and are funded differently. Pension benefits are guaranteed by the state Constitution and are prefunded, meaning that todays contributions are set aside and invested on behalf of tomorrows retirees. If investment returns don't match predictions, then school contributions make up the gap over time.If you don't like this, and haven't asked your representative why House Bill 4527 hasn't moved out of the House Labor Committee, then do so. http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?SessionID=39&ChamberLegislationTypeID=1&Number=4527 2009 House Bill 4527 (401k type pension for new school employees )

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:12 p.m.

Thank you, "eom." I was starting to wonder. All this vitriol about teachers, when we depend on them to care for and educate our kids five days a week for almost ten months a year. When I think of the wonderful people who have helped my kids learn to read and write, I just don't get where the anger comes from. I do see how people might be angry if they believed all the so-called "facts" I've seen trotted out here. But I'm not sure that most of them are true. For instance, I don't know where this $50 for health care comes from; in AAPS, teachers who take one of the more expensive plans pay hundreds of dollars a month. Prescription drug benefits have also been rolled back. Look, the point is this: unlike most private companies, schools have been squeezed for the last ten years or more. Their funding hasn't even come close to keeping up with costs. Our schools have been cutting for years. Massive cuts now would simply come on top of years of trying to find less noticeable places to cut. I work in the private sector, too, and I don't think smart businesses treat their employees as if they are disposable. But I can't stop them if they want to. But the public schools belong to you, me and all of us. Why should we make the same mistake with a resource that is so important to our community? Steve Norton

voiceofreason

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:54 p.m.

Along with the "I Voted" stickers they typically hand out at the polls, they should also hand out "I am a Sucker" stickers to anyone who votes Yes on this millage.

eom

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:32 p.m.

"this millage proposal is a great example of how far removed from reality teachers are in terms of the common day folk struggling to make ends meet. I can not wait for them to see the true feelings of their neighbors and friends when this millage gets shot down in the most convincing and embarrassing way to teachers." - wordup I'm appalled at many of these comments. I almost didn't write something because I thought it was a waste of time - clearly people have made their minds up. They think teachers coast through life vacationing on one of their many yachts during their many months off while laughing all the way to the bank...spending all of the millions they've made teaching. Ah, the sweet life of a teacher. Isn't it grand? OR EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT. Is it a perfect profession? Nope. Are there some bad apples? Sure. Are there advantages to being a teacher? Yup! Are there disadvantages? Yup! This is called life. Professions - any of them - have good parts and bad parts. The only difference: everyone seems to think they can bad mouth the entire profession of teaching, and the teachers who teach...why? Why such hate and resentment toward educators? Is it the summers? I'd be willing to guess most teachers would do anything (including giving up "summer vacation") to get the respect of a community. Further, I'm guessing all of the naysayers wouldn't last a New York Minute in a public school classroom....let alone a week, month, or entire school year. Do you really think we do this job for the money!? Or the public adoration? Sorry, it's for the kids. They are truly the reason most teachers get out of bed each morning and face a world that hates them. The kids, THEY GET IT.

a2huron

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:02 p.m.

Here is another example and reason to vote NO: wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that the Ypsilanti school district hired a new superintendent and agreed to pay him something like $150,000 a year? I guess why not, since they are expecting to get a surplus of funds from this millage. More than enough to pay administrators money like this. What reforms? I don't see any.

braggslaw

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:01 p.m.

Are teaches a special protected class of people that cannot be touched by an economic downturn? Ridiculous. I hate the monopoly that the public schools and teacher's unions have in education. The money should be distribued to parents who can then send their children to the schools they want... private, for profit etc. I am sick of the pampered teachers unions.

aataxpayer

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:57 p.m.

I'm still undecided. School funding is messed up and getting worse. Less than 40% of state school property tax dollars raised within the AASD come back to the Ann Arbor schools. The proposed WISD millage will return 70% of dollars raised within the AAPS to Ann Arbor schools. The county tax is clearly better than the state tax. On the other hand, taxpayers are tired of funding defined benefit pensions for the public sector when they have been basically eliminated in public sector jobs. David Jesse - research the state laws that are keeping real change from occurring. The simple fact is that local schools need legislative relief from the state but our representatives seem too incompetent to do anything about this problem. I'm leaning toward voting yes would like to see state reforms started now.

a2huron

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:12 p.m.

2 Mills = 2 much! Can any of the teachers or school district administrators who are posting ad nauseum on here understand that math? It is simply greedy to ask for so much money and take away from every other program that needs tax support. You get your 2 mills and our parks, police, etc. go down the tubes. All because you didn't want to take pay or benefit cuts. Please.

OverTaxed

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:09 p.m.

I can't afford another increase. I have a solution, those with students in school start paying extra, like I do for health care at work each year. That way, when they are the only ones that show up to vote, they can vote themselves better schools through their money. Then they have a vested interest in there children's education, instead of me flipping the whole bill.

schoolsmuse

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:06 p.m.

I'm voting yes. Here is why: http://a2schoolsmuse.blogspot.com/2009/10/does-it-take-millage.html

djm12652

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7 p.m.

Wait a minute...these funds, if voted for, go into a general fund with no spending restrictions? Wow...sure...at least I know how the panhandlers downtown are going to use the money they get. So each district can do what they want with this money...like I said...wow...sure.

ready

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:52 p.m.

BY the way, did I forget to mention that I went to a private school. There were 60 kids in my class all the way from 1st to 8th grades. We got a hot lunch and I walked to get there. I also went to a private high school then went on to U of M. I had an excellent education. I took my son out of public school in the 5th grade d/t the fights and chaos. Education isn't a right but a privaledge.

Jim Mulchay

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:30 p.m.

Questions: (1) Does Ann Arbor (and other selected districts) still get more money per pupil than other districts ($2000 or so, I think)? Is there any chance of losing this extra funding if we still get it? (2) Is the state considering taking out (taking back?) more than the $163/per pupil funding amount? I thought I had heard some talk of the state taking back even more? (3) Is there anyone in Lansing (from any party) really taking a stand on school funding reform? Is anyone talking about reducing the number of public school districts in the state? As far as the Washtenaw Millage - it may be necessary, but the school districts are going to have to realize this might well be the last extra income they get without changing the state's funding model - they have got to come up with something better than "we want more money from you" for the next time.

JonesM

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 5:46 p.m.

I'm tired of hearing that the Ann Arbor teachers "sacrificed" by accepting no raise this year. We are ALL in the same boat. I work at UM (and live in the City of Ann Arbor) and also will be getting no raise. On top of that, beginning January 1, 2010 I will pay approximately $260 per month in health insurance premiums to cover my family of four. Why do the teachers only pay $50 per month for their family coverage? Also, UM does not nave a defined benefit pension plan. These types of plans are unaffordable and should not be paid for with public dollars. We contribute to a 401K at UM and this will allow me to retire at 65 or 67 years, not age 50. When we passed the millage to build Skyline high school a couple of years ago, we were told that no new operating funds would be needed. Teachers would be transferred from Huron and Pioneer. A part of Pioneer would be torn down and portables gotten rid of. The district offices would be moving to Pioneer to eliminate that rent cost. Well, now I feel like the school district was less than forthcoming regarding the cost to run a 3rd comprehensive high school. This mileage is, of course, partly additional funding to run Skyline which we were assured was not needed. My vote is NO on the millage request.

JonesM

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 4:56 p.m.

I want to thank Annarbor.com for providing input from both sides of this argument. I can appreciate both points of view, but after sorting through what is fact and what is merely scare tactics, it's pretty clear to me that we need to vote NO on this millage. As I've outlined below, there appears to me to still be several ways that schools can manage costs better without cutting teachers and programs. And, to say that our property values are going to go down if we don't pass this, is absolutely ridiculous. If our property values drop further, it's not going to be because of this millage. It's going to be because of the troubles of this state. Don't people realize how seriously this state has been hit by the recession and how hard it has impacted everyone including the middle class who are going to take the brunt of this tax increase. I don't know anybody who can afford more taxes, especially when they aren't necessary. Want specifics? How about these? 1. Bring the employee paid portion of health care premiums in line with what most other people are paying. My wife and I pay over $300 per month toward our healthcare, for example. Why are school employees only paying $50 per month? 2. Eliminate the defined benefit pension plans (guaranteed pension levels) and change to a matching 401K plan (like so many other have) where the employees pay into their own retirement. Everyone knows that the economics of the current plan are unsustainable, yet nobody even talks about it. It's like it's off limits for some reason. 3. Eliminate all of the duplicate administrative systems and departments across the county and consolidate under the WISD umbrella. This would save tremendous dollars and would be a much more effective way of helping the smaller districts. 4. Allow adminstrators to fire the bad teachers who are making much more than they are worth and use that money to reward the good teachers and hire young, less-expensive teachers with fresh ideas and enthusiasm. 5. Continue to look into privatizing non-educational functions like transportation. Let's have the schools focus on education rather than functions that could be handled more efficiently by private industry. I may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet that almost any one of the preceding ideas would be enough to cover our budget shortfall. If we implemented more than one, we would probably have a surplus. Do we really need to raise taxes? - ABSOLUTELY NOT - VOTE NO!

PaperTiger

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 4:45 p.m.

I'm voting NO. Until the management at Saline Area Schools requires that teachers start paying for some of their healthcare, they will not get any more of my taxes. And, $50 per family is not quite enough. Get in touch with the "real" world and start paying for your health benefits like the rest of us have to do. Start to manage your money more effectively - if you don't have the income coming in and have more expenses going out - - - well, you get the picture. They don't manage the money that they have now. I can't imagine giving them MORE money to spend.

I'm Ron Burgandy

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 4:29 p.m.

I'm voting NO. Everyone who wants their taxes raised by this millage feel free to donate to your local school system if you feel so strongly about it. Didn't think so...

MichU

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 4:27 p.m.

Michigan's public schools are taking a hit at the state level; let's not clobber them at the local level, too! I'm voting in favor of the millage.

ready

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 4:06 p.m.

Hey how about we just get rid of the WISD. How much money would that save?? I am voting NO on their proposal for many reasons. WISD is of touch with the financial reality of county citizens. I am not willing to work til 67 years old and Medicare eligible so that school employees can retire with full paid health benefits at 45 or 50!! The claim "Its about the children" is nonsense, Its about the teachers benefits!!

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 2:35 p.m.

When did the people of Ann Arbor agree to adopt Ypsilanti?

Designated Conservative

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 1:42 p.m.

Alan, Those that call us "anti-kid" or say "you want our schools to fail" have already lost the argument and having nothing more intelligent to say on the issues. Vote a resounding "No!" to the WISD millage! More at http://dcon2012.wordpress.com.

Designated Conservative

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 1:32 p.m.

Another QUOTE OF THE DAY: "The fact that private schools and homeschools effortlessly surpass government schools in academic standards as well as moral development (for a fraction of the cost) illustrates the absurdity that per-pupil spending or increased hours make any difference whatsoever." - Patrice Lewis

David Wallner

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 1:08 p.m.

I am opposed to raising taxes against the threat of declining educational quality. The State of Michigan is in deep trouble due in large part to the wholesale abandenment of the US Auto Industry by people who were only thinking of their own selfrighteous motivations. There aren't any segments that are immune to the belt tightening and waste reduction efforts that have to be made. Why not ask Honda, Toyota, Nisson and the rest to kick in some of their profits from US Auto Sales to help out our poor unfortunate school districts and their inept administrators. It is amazing to me how stupid people are here in Washtenaw County given the high level of educational achievement. In the 80's the foriegn makers were at war with the big three. In the 90's they started building their bunkers here on US soil. In the age of enlightment here in America you can now accurately say that this is the "post-industrial period". That is another way of saying "we lost" the war.

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:59 p.m.

"My sister lives in a MI school district that has cut their fine arts programs in response to budget cuts, and because of it does not have her child in public schools."The funding crisis is made worse by rapidly declining property tax revenues statewide due to foreclosures and lower assessed valuations. But the crisis was not caused by this.The crisis is caused by a structural deficit between the money which is collected for education and sent to districts and the money needed to operate school districts. It is not possible to cut sufficiently to close this structural deficit. When school districts cut enrichment programs and increase class sizes, parents flee.Larger philosophical questions of whether or not more money equals better education donn't matter to these parents. Whether or not we should smash the teachers' unions and strip their benefits doesn't matter to these parents. They leave when they don't get the education they expect for their children. And when those parents leave they take their state aid with them, to the benefit of no one in the public school system. When they leave, it does not reduce the property tax collected -- they still pay it, along with their neighbors. But it is no longer applied to their local school district. In response, the district cuts more and more programs are cut and the viscous cycle continues.

Designated Conservative

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:54 p.m.

QUOTE OF THE DAY: I'm going to echo a quote posted by ChuckL on the ArborUpdate blog post Should voters give the county-wide school millage a passing grade?: (W)e are proposing to raise taxes on people losing their health care, losing their retirement funds, losing their homes..." so that teachers and other public school employees "...can keep their health care, retirement benefits and homes. A potentially 11 percent increase in property taxes to support our public schools is not only excessive, it is an act that shocks the conscience at this time when people across Washtenaw County are losing their homes to foreclosure and tax delinquencies. More on this issue, especially on the topic of "taxation without representation," can be found at http://dcon2012.wordpress.com.

jhcer

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:43 p.m.

My sister lives in a MI school district that has cut their fine arts programs in response to budget cuts, and because of it does not have her child in public schools. It is easy to push aside the real consequences and call them "scare tactics" by those of us who support the millage. I am an Ann Arbor resident that takes a lot of pride in our schools. I want to keep it that way. The focus here is our children, as it should be, but it also affects many other areas of our community when our public school system suffers. As it has been mentioned already, I will not repeat. I do encourage everyone to visit www.a2cmc.org. I will be voting YES on November 3rd.

David Martel

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:37 p.m.

Wordup: I'm not a teacher and I'm not employed by the school system. In fact, I don't have children. I'm just a person who was educated in The Ann Arbor Public Schools, love this community and I understand the relationship that public education has to the economic vitality of our community. It may not be as much as you'd like but employee salaries have been frozen or risen slower than inflation over the past several years. Employees have contributed more toward their health care costs, and the district has capped the amount it contributes to health care and how much that amount could go up each year. Food service workers were privatized, with diminished benefits. Administrative and support positions have been left empty, leaving others to pick up the slack. We can vote "no" and attempt to force further change in teacher compensation, meanwhile our whole community will suffer in a time when we need to make our community as attractive to business as possible, not give reason for a business not to want to locate here or make it more difficult for existing business to recruit.

kludwig

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:32 p.m.

School millage proposals are almost always the most contentious elections we have. If you've ever dug into the way that school districts present their budgets to the public the lack of transparency only exacerbates the problem. Administrative costs are divided into central admin and school-based but the school based costs are rolled into the teaching costs. Support costs are also frequently offered in opaque forms and the list goes on. I spent more than a decade swimming in these dark and murky waters trying to make sense of how we can educate all of our children to their maximum potential and do so efficiently and effectively. Hard to do when the information is so slippery. Here's a way to look at this issue that may add light to the heat.. or not. Ask yourself how you would spend the (depending on how you count-another layer of confusion)Ann Arbor per pupil allowance of $9723.00 or $12,000.00 if it was yours to spend on each child? What kind and quality of education could you buy for that much money? Are we getting that kind of value now? If not, and I think not, then we ought to rethink how we educate our kids-all of them without exception- rather than load on more cost for ever declining benefits in a fundamentally flawed, broken model. There has not really been any serious effort to restructure our schools and systems since the era of consolidation (which doesn't look quite so good any more. If you take the number of people in the District who are certified to teach and divide that into the number of students what would the student teacher ratio be then? Last time I looked the ratio dropped to about 1-7. Why aren't all those people responsible for 7 kids personally? How much do we pay for out of classroom support-bus drivers, janitors, food service (in addition to contracted services)grounds-keepers, athletics, extracurricular arts and music and such? Do we want to continue to allocate resources in the same way or do we want to change the mix? The districts always, yes always, use scare tactics to get more money to be squandered in the same old ways. Lots of fine people try very hard to teach. They teach with mandates that no sane person would design. How many of you, to take high school teachers as an example and one of the craziest, personally interact with,and are responsible for,150 other people every day? The span of control in the Marine Corps is 3, in business about 10. Why do we structure our school days around athletics for busing. Little kids go later and impact their parents work schedules an stress levels, because they can't be sent out by them selves while teenagers, who we now know, have different biological sleep needs go earlier. This happens so that athletic teams can practice during daylight hours. OK, that's good for the athletes but I don't get why 15000 students and their families are the unwitting victims of this sort of foolishness. You've guessed by now where I stand on the county-wide millage. I just wanted to show you the tip of the iceberg of school failure that keeps me firmly on the side of voting NO on school millages including this one.

wordup

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:24 p.m.

david- we dont have time to go over every professions cutbacks...the point is we all have and we still see your profession getting raises, and not paying for health care benefits. thats OUR point. Get it of this? I doubt it.

David Martel

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:12 p.m.

Readhead: You make it sound like the schools have been been steadily spending. AAPS has made hard cuts of $16 million over the last four years alone. This is in response to our per-pupil spending cap (set each year by the state Legislature) falling 9% since 1994 once you account for inflation. AAPS has privatized food service, consolidated substitute teaching at the county level, increased class size targets at every grade level (2006), restructured the middle school (eliminating an elective for students and also removing coordinating teaching and teaming for 7th and 8th grades) in order to save $2.3 million a year... The list goes on. You can find it at http://www.a2cmc.org.

Redhead

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 12:03 p.m.

I am voting NO. Last year my salary was cut 10%, no raise this year. In January, my monthly heathcare increases 20% a month, plus higher copays. I have had to cut my budget and schools need to make the necessary cuts as well. I agree that cuts are painful and difficult but this is what happens in a down economy. I am saying this as a parent of two children in the Ann Arbor School system.

David Cahill

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:53 a.m.

How about an AnnArbor.com poll on this important issue?

DagnyJ

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:47 a.m.

Then, I want to see the same cost per pupil for each school that would be getting money from the millage. If the entire county wants my money, then I want to understand exactly where each school in the county stands financially.

DagnyJ

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:45 a.m.

I would like to see the following financial information to help me know how to vote: The cost per pupil to educated students at all Ann Arbor elementary, middle, and high schools--including all six high schools. Please include costs to bus CHS students to the other three high schools for classes that CHS does not offer. I would like to see the breakout of costs for athletics at the three high schools, and what would happen if we increased the annual cost to play from $35 per student to something more, or maybe a sliding scale starting at $75 and going down based on income. Also, just an aside, what happens to the money collected a PHS for parking for UM football games? Where does that money go? Thanks.

BenWoodruff

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.

Hey, I'll make a deal with the Ann Arborites who don't want their money to go to the "outsiders". When the state allocates School Aid funds, you can get as much as Lincoln, Willow Run, Ypsi, etc...No "hold harmless" funds for you anymore...Your per student grant drops to 7500 from 11000...Whaddya say? Think you will be able to keep Latin classes and Grammy music programs? Live on that level of funding and then come back and say how unfair the system is...

KarenH

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.

Bravo@Elizabeth Nelson! Well said.

Marvin Face

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:40 a.m.

After reading the article and all the comments, I have changed my mind. I will now be voting NO.. P.S. Headlee was the right thing to do. It has served us well.

a2huron

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:32 a.m.

I'm voting NO. 2 mills is an enormous amount of money to ask taxpayers for during this economy (or any economy, for that matter). Talk about being greedy! I bet they are so used to getting school millages passed by unsuspecting voters that they said "Hey, let's go for the max since it will pass anyway." Just plain greedy to ask for this much. Add the fact that so much of my city taxes will end up outside the city - again! This is just as bad as the subsidy my taxes pay for Ypsi Township's police patrols. I have had enough!!! And guess what: if you add 2 huge new tax mills right now, Ann Arbor city voters will never vote to renew valuable parks millages down the road since by then everyone will realize the full hit of all these taxes. SO TAKE YOUR PICK: tax yourselves now and send money out of the school district, or keep your parks millages. Can't have both.

rwshas

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11:24 a.m.

Our Schools system gets on avg. more than most districts in the State already. Plus $800,000 more for Parking from Football, Basketball, Art fair etc. at Pioneer. It's called mismanagement.. And many teachers and supporters think more money means better education. Which is wrong. Look at Washington DC. The highest costs in the nation per student with the lowest rankings. Wake up and just teach our kids and stop using them as pawns for your political ideaology. Vote No on the millage.

wordup

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 11 a.m.

part time teachers with no benefits? thats going a little far as to what we want our teachers to become. But is it unreasonable to slow down the pay ramp for public employees who have summers off and more vacation days during the teaching year than most professionals with higher education than what it takes to be a teacher? As for benefits, why not have them simply pay for some of what all of us already pay for. Just pay for some of the share? Too much to ask or another rhetoric, we do it for the children?

Dr. I. Emsayin

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:57 a.m.

If the millage fails, say goodbye to your favorite young teachers, those excited, dedicated folks who have given your children hope and enthusiasm for learning. Say goodbye to your favorite old teachers who have been the stalwarts of the district, but who will likely be encouraged to retire to save jobs. And as the burden falls on those in the middle, watch them retrain for more lucrative careers as they get burnt out carrying the burden of large class sizes and state mandates. Farewell to creative programs, farewell to vocational education, farewell to programs that help students at risk, to programs that encourage top students. What will be left is what many districts have: middle and high schools with one English choice for each grade, one math choice, one science choice. We will have districts in the county who do no more than teach to standardized tests. Ain't freedom grand!

David Jesse

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:54 a.m.

As I mentioned above, we're continuing to look at this issue. If there are questions you'd like me to ask, or data you'd like me to find (on either side of the issue) please e-mail me at davidjesse@annarbor.com

Brit Satchwell

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:48 a.m.

When I opened my print edition of the paper this AM, I read this article's sub title that does not appear in this e-version: "Voters must decide: Is 2-mill tax needed, or can schools be more efficient?" Finally!... had the opponents of the millage, or ANYBODY, uncovered efficiencies that have eluded AAPS after years of making cuts, of input from the public, of searching their own budgets and operations? I am 110% pro-efficiency when it comes to the use of public funds, as everybody should be. Alas, the millage opponents quoted in the article proposed absolutely NO new "efficiencies". There is a clear difference between the words "efficient" and "less expensive", but those who want to spend less are continuing to use euphemisms such as "restructuring", "reform" and "efficiency" as rhetorical smokescreens to hide the fact that they simply want to spend less out of their own pockets. As a pro-efficiency guy, I strongly object to the practice of diverting the discussion away from actual efficiencies in the name of "efficiency". If you want to spend less for less, fine... the factual menu, written by the experts, is right in front of you. Spend less by ordering less, but don't pass off your desire to spend less as the inefficiency of others. How shameful! Quote after quote from the millage opponents: they want to spend less, feel the millage is too much, times are tough... NOTHING about efficiency as the title implies, everything about how they simply want don't want to spend more on education. They did take one feeble stab at "efficiency" by dividing the total number of students by the total number of "teachers" to arrive at the ridiculous quotient of 14 students per teacher. That single statement speaks volumes about how the opposition to the millage is willing guard their own pocketbooks while shouting "efficiency" at others or by implying "facts" that are blatantly false. Their zany quotient can ONLY include teachers who are not general ed classroom teachers of the kind that pop to mind when the public thinks "teacher". AAPS does indeed employ counselors who have caseloads of hundreds to one. AAPS also hires special ed teachers and specialists whose smaller caseloads are MANDATED by FEDERAL law. AAPS also hires teaching assistants who caseloads are also mandated by federal law via IEPs (INDIVIDUAL Education Plans) at one-to-one. The 14-to-one claim can ONLY be excused by complete ignorance of how schools operate or by a willful attempt to mislead the public. It's shameful to twist numbers in such a way and then submit them for what needs to be a very clear and honest public discussion. They need to explain how they counted "teachers" to arrive at their "fact". If they don't, I ask Mr. Jesse to shed some light of day on their wildly misleading math. AAPS has already cut past the point of educational efficiency. A specific example from one who was there: The goal of middle school restructuring two years ago was to cut $2.3 million from the budget while doing the least harm possible to middle school instruction. That AAPS, in this example and many others, has been able to cut millions from its budget over the last five consecutive years without the public noticing too many cuts in quality is a tribute to: 1) administrative planning in collaboration with staff, and then 2) staff's increased efforts to make up for chronically inadequate funding. We are now at the point where the system cannot constrict itself further out of the public's view; from here on out the cuts will be painfully obvious at the level of services and instruction. And the public, once truly informed of the hard Sophies Choices before us, might then decide that they want fewer services and less instructional quality rather than pay more to merely keep what we have. But they need and deserve reliable information that does not promote the myth that any inefficient excess remains to be cut. This campaign, yea or nay, MUST be about INFORMED choices, not knee-jerk parsimonious rhetoric and diversions. If any voter wants to factually explore efficiency as used and defined in the English language, those efficiencies have been and continue to be available on the district's website, in the district's public presentations, on the WISD's website. If you want those facts placed into the context of reasonable advocacy - how we fund education in this state is indeed a complex and outdated web that requires some help to navigate - then visit the pro-millage website. On any of those sites you will see exactly how and why less is actually less. But if you merely want to medicate your angst over what the next round of severe cuts could actually mean with the fantasy that less can be more because fat remains to be cut from the edu-system, then millage opponents have some fantasy "efficiencies" they want to sell you... buyer beware! And please be especially aware of what you buy into at the expense of children who rely on us to shape their future. We adults, ALL of us, got us into this mess... we passed Proposal A in 1994, we have not pushed Lansing hard enough to update our tax structure to match our economy's transition from industry to services, and we've settled for annual band-aid solutions rather than fix the core structural problems. To allow our kids to suffer now in order keep ourselves, the ones responsible for this mess, from finally paying the piper whom we knew would eventually arrive, would be tantamount to letting our past neglect become abuse. Our time is up. The fat has been cut. We can only downsize from here on out. Shame on ALL of us if we don't pass this millage in order to buy more time to fix our state's underlying problems. Kids don't get "do overs" when it comes to their education. If anybody has more than opinions woven from thin air about where efficiencies can be found without having to cut services and instruction, where have you been and where are you now? If you want fewer services and less effective instruction, what many have termed "scare tactics" is actually the menu of facts in front of your eyes. We will get what we pay for, no more, no less.

David Jesse

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:48 a.m.

C Snead: I'm working on a story for next week looking at the data and will use stuff you shared with us during the editorial board meeting. There was no influence on what I wrote by any member of the editorial board - either those employed by the.com or the community member you mention. I haven't even talked to him about this issue.

Ruth

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:47 a.m.

I support the school millage request and will vote "yes"

GoblueBeatOSU

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:45 a.m.

" Graden (of Saline Schools) said he wants the community to know that the staff is "sacrificing for the betterment of the district, which in turn is keeping our costs in line." The school's co-pay for a single employee will be $25 a month, $38 for a two-person family and $50 for a full family. What kind of sacrifice is this?!! I'm paying over $600 a month for my employer backed medical insurance alone...not to mention all the other fees we have to pay every time we go to the doctor's office. I use to be a big supporter of the schools, but I've learned from reading AA.com and the Saline Reporter that the schools have no clue what the real world is like. $50/month for medical (as reported by the Saline Reporter). Give me a break. Until the schools take real steps to cut their costs, I'm voting NO!

townie54

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:35 a.m.

all you people writing short novels in these comments for the millage wont convince me.I don't want to pay another cent.We've had our money used to bail out banks and how much good has that done.GM and Chrysler also got in my pocket and we will see how that turns out.I'm sick of being the scapegoat for every business and government entity that won't balance their budget.Vote no like I will be doing

InsideTheHall

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:29 a.m.

Just say and vote NO! In the current environment any tax increase MUST be rejected. It is time for all taxing authorities that your revenue will be 30% less and that is the new reality. Government and schools must get smaller. Perhaps school district consolidation should be strongly considered.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:22 a.m.

To "Neo" and others who object to "more" taxes: You may know that the "Headlee Amendment" to the state constitution places a cap on the proportion of total state "income" that can be collected in taxes. Did you know that we are farther below that limit than at any time since the amendment was passed in 1978? That means, good or bad times, we are collecting less of our overall income in taxes for public services than at any time in the last 30 years. Something similar is happening to education spending. The total share of our state's "income" spent on K-12 education, in good times and bad, has been falling continuously since at least 2000. We've been asking our schools to do more with less for years now. Add to that the collapse in revenues that support education, and you end up with a disaster for our schools. Our schools educate our children for the jobs of tomorrow, and make our communities attractive to people and businesses today. Good schools are one of the best bets for pulling us out of this recession. Is this the time to pull the rug out from under them? Steve Norton A2CMC campaign manager

David Martel

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:22 a.m.

The Ann Arbor Public Schools Educational Foundation has posted their letter of endorsement on this issue. It speaks to how passing this millage is so important to our broader community, not only our children: Dear Citizens: Every public school district in Michigan is currently under assault by state budget cuts. Unfortunately, Ann Arbor is in no way immune to the damage. Programs such as music, arts, foreign language, sports they are all on the immediate chopping block. That is why the proposed Washtenaw Schools Millage is so vitally important to the future of our children and our community. The proposed 2-mill increase represents less than $200 per year for the average Ann Arbor household. That relatively small amount can help maintain the strength of our nationally ranked schools, and help our children prepare for the demands of the 21st Century. In addition, it can ensure the following: Resilient home values. The strength of a school district is a major factor in maintaining/increasing home values. The Millage can help continue Ann Arbors reputation as one of the nations best places to live, work and retire. A better environment for business. Many studies have shown that a primary factor in business recruiting is the strength of the public school system. It helps draw businesses in, and creates a strong and consistent work force. Retaining our brightest and best. One of the leading motives for young families to stay in the area is a highly rated public school system so that their children may have every educational advantage possible. Our collective commitment to education. Ann Arbor has always been committed to education. Never before has there been a more important moment to show your dedication to the areas children and their futures. The rest of letter can be found at: http://www.aapsef.org/millage.html

Neo

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 10:10 a.m.

No more taxes. Vote NO

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:50 a.m.

I, too, am disappointed that the original story did not relate the fact that AAPS has made hard cuts of $16 million over the last four years alone. This is in response to our per-pupil spending cap (set each year by the state Legislature) falling 9% since 1994 once you account for inflation. AAPS has privatized food service, consolidated substitute teaching at the county level, increased class size targets at every grade level (2006), restructured the middle school (eliminating an elective for students and also removing coordinating teaching and teaming for 7th and 8th grades) in order to save $2.3 million a year... The list goes on. You can find it at a2cmc.org. The supposed "17% increase" in school millages conveniently omits the fact that most of that is either to pay down construction debt - and that falls as the bonds are repaid - or is earmarked to provide special education services which we would otherwise have to cover out of general funds. AAPS homeowners pay one millage, at about 4.7 mills, that goes to support school operations. Even at that, half of AAPS's funding comes from the state School Aid Fund. Where does that money come from? Most of it comes from the sales and income taxes, along with the 6 mill state education property tax. We contribute far more in those taxes than we get back: we get back about 38 cents on the dollar from the state education tax. When the economy takes a nosedive, sales and income taxes, which provide most state funding for education, can plummet very quickly. That's exactly what they have done over the last 12 months. When Lansing catches a cold, our schools sneeze. If you add these latest and upcoming budget cuts to the financial stress schools have faced for years, you end up with a disaster in the making. Every district has a story, and I'm best able to tell Ann Arbor's. But ask your local school district about the challenges they have faced, and what they have done to try to meet them without damaging our children's education. And knowing all that, take a close look at this millage and what it means for our community - in the short run and the long term. I support the Washtenaw Schools Millage, and I hope you will too. Steve Norton A2CMC campaign manager

Sean Stidd

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:39 a.m.

This millage looks like a good idea to me. Our public schools are already cut to the bone, and with more and more Michigan children falling into poverty, we need to do something to offer them a ladder out. The Ann Arbor point is interesting, but even if it's right this tax is a better deal for Ann Arbor than state educational taxes. We get about 40 cents on the dollar back from the state when we pay into the general fund in Washtenaw county, whereas this millage ALL stays in the county, so even if those numbers are right AA is still getting more like 70 cents on the dollar - almost twice as effective, investment-wise. Whether or not it's right for those better off to help those less fortunate, as I believe it is, if you think the Ann Arbor schools need more funding this millage is a much better way for them to get it than going through the state. Best, Sean Stidd

Alan Benard

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:31 a.m.

Thank you for this article. It is unreasonable to state flatly:The proposed 2 mill ($30 million) annual tax increase will push already struggling taxpayers over the edge, causing them to lose their homes..."This is scaremongering ignorant of the ways homeowners can offset the property tax costs with tax credits.From comments made in an thread in this Web site's opinion area: "There are property tax credits for elderly and disabled, as well as federal tax deductions that people can qualify for. The property tax credit flows from a law that includes 1) a cut-off for eligibility above household incomes of $82,650, 2) a cap of $1200 on the credit, and 3) a higher rate of credit for the elderly and disabled relative to others. The federal tax credit is for itemized deductions, and related to income. Please refer to federal tax publication 970 for more detailed information on this: www.irs.gov/publications/970. This was updated in 2008."

Plubius

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 9:24 a.m.

Cut administrator jobs - this will make the system run more efficiently and will (at worst) have no impact on education.

Elizabeth Nelson

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:44 a.m.

People are failing to consider how QUICKLY the quality of our schools could plummet in this particular town. Some comments try to paint this millage as somehow insensitive to the needs of people in this depressed economy. Right now, residents of Ann Arbor have access to a high quality PUBLIC education. Anyone ever notice how many private schools exist in this town? Right now, my children attend school with other kids of educated professionals, university professors, families a good bit wealthier than our own. When we pretend that our schools don't matter, when we underfund the PUBLIC system, what you'll create is a situation where anyone who CAN afford to go private will. What do you suppose THAT does to property values, when people have to calculate the cost of private education against the cost of a buying a home? This millage is a very small price to pay in the grand scheme. I got a good chuckle over the suggestion that we must anticipate the cost of "obama's" healthcare and how THAT will create such a tax burden for people... oh my. We can only hope that the number of people eager to cut off their noses to spite their face are outnumbered by the people who can actually think clearly about longterm consequences...!!

packman

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:27 a.m.

In light of what might be coming down the pike for already overburdened taxpayers, i.e., the increased cost of Obama's health care, not to mention $14B wasted on a Soc Sec $250 bonus to seniors this year, increased energy costs because of "cap and trade" this proposed tax will not go away after only five years. It's no doubt impossible to enact, but how about lowering the millage by 1 point each on AATA and AADL...that would make everthing "revenue neutral" if I may borrow a phrase?

Christine Stead

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:22 a.m.

Unfortunately, what isn't in this story is good data to support the millage. I hate to think that is because a member of the editorial board is the treasurer of the opposition party, but it is incredibly disappointing considering I spent almost two hours with them myself giving a lot more data than what is reflected in this article. Here is some of what you missed: What David neglected to mention is that there are many business owners that do support the millage. Rich Sheridan, President and CEO of Menlo - a local IT-based business, just met with the editorial board to express why he sees it as crucial to his ability to grow his business - and why he decided on Ann Arbor in the first place. David also neglected to mention that Karen Cross, the most recent former President of the Ann Arbor Board of Education, is supporting this millage - even in very hard times for herself. Why support the millage? Homeowners Anyone who owns a home in Ann Arbor should be among the strongest supporters of the millage, if the value of their home is important. A large national study released in August by cyberhomes.com surveyed 6000 zip codes (using Q1 2009 data). They found that the median home price in zip codes with a top-rated school (as rated by GreatSchools), had median home values 62% higher than those in zip codes with average-rated schools and 92% higher than those with poorly-rated schools. The quality of public schools is one of the most important things home buyers consider when buying a home - as any realtor will tell you; and all of them have this information at the ready for potential customers. In fact, most studies that research home value and quality education are done by either economists or real estate-sponsored organizations. I would think realtors, knowing this, might be the strongest supporters as well. Any home owner in Ann Arbor ought to be supporting this millage to avoid any erosion in their home values, at least related to education. Should this millage not pass, that is exactly what they will be dealing with. For the taxes that this millage creates, the return on that investment is higher than just about any other investment a home owner could make in today's market. Business Owners: Many see our county and our community as a the path to help our state out of this economic crisis. Ask any business owner about what kinds of questions new recruits are asking them when they're considering a move to Ann Arbor or Washtenaw County. Every one of them will tell you that the quality of public education is part of that process, especially if they have a family already or are planning to. A list of endorsers are available on www.a2cmc.org as a starting point. You can find many local business owners on that list. Protecting a Valuable Asset Our schools are a valuable asset worth protecting. AAPS significantly outperforms the state on a wide range of measures: MEAP scores, ACT scores & % of students participating, graduation rates, participation and performance in advanced programming - just to name a few. AAPS has done a phenomenal job, as demonstrated by these measures - despite year after year cuts. In the past 4 years, they have cut $16 million. Staying Competitive in Education - in the State with the Highest Unemployment Rate Our State suffers from a 15.3% unemployment rate currently. We know our state budget is not going to be able to support our schools in the short term. We know we have a $165 per student cut to deal with already this year; and we are expecting another one of the same magnitude in February. That's this year. Next year, we are facing AT LEAST a $15 million deficit in AAPS alone. That is AT LEAST 219 jobs. Without the millage, we are looking at further lay-offs, increasing class sizes, maybe no school transportation or programs such as music, art, physical education (at a time when childhood obesity is one of the biggest issues in the nation), and many other reduction in programs. Our state's ability to address this is not something we should look for next year. We need to be proactive. This millage is the only legal path that we have to be pro-active and address this funding issue. Even this millage will not be enough. If we look to other communities that are growing, we might look to Kalamazoo. Kalamazoo has already passed this millage at 3 mills twice. And they are growing in all measures. Many in the state of Michigan see them as a model community. The 2 mills that this millage asks for is NOT the maximum allowed. We also tax ourselves 9% less today than we did in 1994. That means less taxes. It also means a structural deficit for our schools. Every year we get less than we need to stay competitive with cost of living, medical and pension fund expense increases, etc. Imagine how competitive your business would be if you had less money every year to spend, while your employees dealt with higher and higher living expenses. By the way, our schools have done very well in controlling the cost of medical expenses. For the past 5 years, the AAPS medical expenses grew 7%, compared to 20% growth in Michigan and 34% growth nationally. That also means that our teachers pay more out of pocket, but many businesses are doing the same. Solutions: We need to address a major budget shortfall next year, and a significant one this year. And we need to protect a valuable asset in the quality of education that we have, and the ripple effect that has on our businesses, homes and community broadly. Ann Arbor will raise almost $16 million in tax revenue (based on taxable home value for Ann Arbor residents) and get back $11.2 million (based on a per student allocation). While this isn't getting the whole $16 million back, it is much more than nothing (which is exactly what we'll get if the millage doesn't pass). By the way, Ann Arbor residents will get 71 cents per dollar back from this millage, as compared to the 38 cents per dollar we receive from all other education-related millages. That's almost twice the bang for the buck than all other education-related millages. This is a very cost effective way to protect our schools. As you are weighing whether to support the millage, you might want to consider what the options are. If you support the millage, you help protect the quality of education we have, you protect your home value, you protect our ability to recruit and retain new businesses in our community. If you don't support the millage - what is your plan? What are you doing to address the budget shortfall this year and next year? Maybe you can explain that to the 219 people that lose their jobs next year, or any family who has children in the school system that would be impacted, should the millage not pass. Or any business owner that was thinking about Ann Arbor, or current ones trying to grow their business here. Or any homeowner, should their home value erode further. Whats your plan? I'll be voting for the millage on Nov. 3rd. I hope you will, too.

DagnyJ

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:21 a.m.

I would like to see in greater detail how each school district that would receive the money has actually cut costs. REAL examples only. And specifics. These bland "we've tightened our belts, next we have to cut into bone" comments from school officials are not persuasive. Ann Arbor has many pet projects that could be trimmed.

SpamBot1

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:09 a.m.

Some of these reader comments are a sad commentary on our society. Some are angry at the thought that their dollars will be spent in other areas of the county, but are willing to accept that their federal taxes are spread around the globe. Others apparently want teachers to become part-time employees with no health or retirement benefits. And others have completely accepted the rhetoric that teachers don't work all summer, do nothing in the classroom, pay nothing for retirement or health benefits, and after 20 years of work they, make 100's of thousands of dollars each year while in retirement. Turn off the Rush Limbaugh, don't believe everything the Mackinaw Center says, and you yourself ask some questions of your school board. ----- First, teachers have helped public schools in Michigan save hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't remember the exact number, but if I recall, it was 360 MILLION. How? Wage and benefit concessions that the teachers and support staff voted for. When the numbers for 2009/2010 are settled, I have no doubt that number will increase significantly. To all those that continually clamor about your "10% pay cuts to keep the company running," teachers have done that. Every dollar saved may not have been in pay cuts, but teachers have agreed to reduced compensation packages that have saved districts 100's of millions of dollars each year. I'm not asking for pity or implying that public school employees have given up as much as some others, but I think you have to acknowledge that teachers have accepted cuts to their pay and benefits, and not just this year, but consistently, year after year, through both booms and busts, over the past two decades. ---- Taxes are a fact of life, and while you may cringe while watching your federal taxes frittered around the globe on billion dollar bail outs and $10,000 trash cans, this one is different. Here's a tax, in which every dollar will be spent within 15 miles of your own home, and which supports the single most important external factor in determining the value of your house, and some are not willing to support it? If you don't care about quality education, then can't you at least care about the value of your single largest investment? If your school district were to completely collapse into financial ruin, only after dramatically increasing class size, eliminating all extra-curricular and essential support programs, placing unqualified part-time teachers in every class, and removing every service not mandated by the state or federal governments, what would happen to the value of your home? Would it decrease more than $200 this year? Would it decline over a $1000 over the next five years? ---- Finally, number of students divided by the number of teachers = 14 students per class?!?! What an idiot. How's the saying go... "It's better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove any doubt." I'm glad that group is basing their entire argument on such an easily discredited "fact." Good sound-bite though.

Rick Olson

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 8:07 a.m.

As a former school business manager, I can tell you from an "insiders" perspective that there are still ways to cut the spending of school districts that the districts are electing not to choose. Instead, they fear monger with the parents about cutting services to kids, cutting teachers, increasing class sizes, etc. Contracting out additional support services has been recommended in the booklet "Six Habits of Fiscally Responsible Public School Districts" for over 10 years, but little adopted by school districts. At Adrian in 2006, we could have saved $800,000 per year if we had contracted out our custodial work. Only later did they partially contract out, and just recently contracted out the transportation department as well. This is not easy, and good people are adversely affected. Nonetheless, if given the choice of protecting adult jobs or better educating the students, what would be your choice? What if you were on the school board and the mission was to educated students? Another option would be to decrease the actual total cost structure of the wages and benefits, instead of decreasing staff numbers. Education is a people intensive business, and about 85% of a district's budget is devoted to people costs. State law permits school distrists to impose a contract on the employees if agreement in collective bargaining is impossible. I am aware of only one district in the state with over 500 school districts which has had the guts to do this. The key target must be the teachers' unions, as they are the big driver of the compensation levels among all school employee groups. I am not against teachers, as most I have had the pleasure of knowing are wonderful, dedicated educators. Nor am I against education, as education was the key for my 5 brothers and sisters and me getting out of poverty after my dad died leaving my mom with us 6 kids. But, I am not for raising taxes in the current economic downturn with struggling homeowners and business when there is a better way to adequately fund the education of our kids. Also, backing a tax increase thinking it will "improve the economy" is a smoke screen we should all be able to see through. I recommend a "No" vote on the proposed millage.

Elizabeth Nelson

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:39 a.m.

I read some stories here and the comments make me roll my eyes-- on national stories, I figure that people are just a bit too brainwashed by right wing cable/radio to engage their brains. However, THIS story's comments have me positively stunned by the breathtaking ignorance re: an issue of truly LOCAL and PERSONAL interest. Resenting that ANY percentage of local Ann Arbor tax might go next door to Ypsi? You think it's in your best interest to live on an island of great schools, surrounded by communities that are suffering? It takes a special kind of stupid to be this blind to the benefits of good schools! And I mean benefits for nice conservative SELFISH reasons like property values. LIke I say, it just leaves me scratching my head. Those of us with children in the district know, also, that it's not so simple as "See, I know how to do DIVISION (I'm smart!) and they've got one teacher for every fourteen kids!" Anyone ever hear of federally mandated special education? There are MANY many reasons (special education is just one of them) why straight-up division of students to teachers is not going to give you a clear picture of how the schools manage day-to-day. Most classes in my son's public school in Ann Arbor exceed 22 students. I encourage people to do research comparing the money spent per student in Ann Arbor against other desirable Michigan communities. It was eye-opening to me to see how much LESS is spent in Ann Arbor. The schools are already managing to do much more with much less. Anyone who does not vote for the millage is extremely short-sighted.

Magoo

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 7:34 a.m.

Nicely written A2Dave! Kids are worth the investment. This is not about teachers it is about investing in the future of our children. Kids are learning about this struggling economy and are being taught real life problem solving skills to get creative and help us out of the state crisis. They are turning off lights, conserving energy and resources and reading about advancements to make this country a place they will one day thrive in. Vote for "Yes!" for kids and our future!

A2Dave

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:47 a.m.

The health of our community and our society is dependent on good public education. It is one of the keys to America's rise to global economic dominance. It needs local support and funding to help maintain such competitive preeminence. That said, it is not an either/or discussion (funding vs. cuts), it will require both. And Alan, Ann Arbor is not an island, it is part of a larger society. Our taxes go to fund national, state and local services and infrastructure, so the "if it isn't spent in Ann Arbor, we shouldn't have to pay" doesn't hold water. And "Happy Senior", the School District is not a "government unit", it is our school system for our children. You probably enjoyed a superior education gained in public schools, and perhaps got a degree from a State college or university, funded by taxes paid, in part, by "Happy Seniors" at the time. We need to spend what we spend wisely and, in this period of economic crisis, all must make sacrifices--including teachers and administrators. Fair enough. But we also have to provide adequate resources so both cuts and increased funding are necessary. Like I said, it is not an either/or proposition. It is our future.

wordup

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:38 a.m.

this millage proposal is a great example of how far removed from reality teachers are in terms of the common day folk struggling to make ends meet. I can not wait for them to see the true feelings of their neighbors and friends when this millage gets shot down in the most convincing and embarrassing way to teachers.

David Jesse

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:35 a.m.

HappySenior: Just as an FYI - local school districts don't have any control over retirement. The state sets the rate that districts have to pay - somewhere around 17%.

HappySenior

Sun, Oct 18, 2009 : 6:14 a.m.

Yes, times are difficult for school budgets. They are difficult for everyone's budget. Is it finally the moment to open retirement and health care costs for people who work in school systems for discussion, looking for a way to reduce the total cost of education? I know so many people who are out of work. I know people who are facing 10% pay cuts to keep the company running. I know people who now only have a part time job. It is unacceptable for a government unit to be asking for more money. The convenient mask of "this is for the kids" doesn't tell the story any more. People who still have a job should not blindly hurt people who don't. People who can afford the costs of their current home should not put at risk the people who are struggling. Vote no on this millage request.