Advocacy group: More than 4,000 school employees could be laid off this year
School districts will lay off more teachers, reduce bus service and trim support for sports next academic year unless Michigan shores up its education funding system, an advocacy group said Monday.
A coalition of education groups called Save our Students, Schools and State says schools would be forced to make their deepest cuts yet if the state Legislature doesn't avoid further education funding cuts.
Cuts to the classroom are projected at many districts.
The coalition supports several changes, including Gov. Jennifer Granholm's proposal to reduce the state sales tax from 6 percent to 5.5 percent and expand it to dozens of consumer services that currently aren't taxed. That would raise roughly $550 million for schools next fiscal year and keep the current per-student funding level.
The proposal for the budget year starting Oct. 1 has been bogged down in the Legislature, where neither Republicans nor Democrats are embracing tax increase proposals in a critical election year. Every seat in the Legislature is up for grabs in November, and voters also will pick a new governor, secretary of state and attorney general.
"I'm sick and tired of hearing nothing is going to happen because it's an election year," said Tom White, leader of the coalition that includes the Michigan School Business Officials, the Michigan Association of School Boards and several other groups. "The ship is sinking here."
Michigan cut school funding by a minimum of $165 per student this academic year, a 2 percent reduction for districts at the bottom end of the state's funding spectrum. Schools could face cuts of more than $225 per student next fiscal year, based on the projected deficit in the state's school aid fund.Â
Districts also could face higher costs for the school employee retirement system, which could push per-pupil funding cuts to the equivalent of more than $400.
A Michigan School Business Officials survey of more than 300 districts found that 86 percent of the state's public school districts expect to have layoffs in the coming year, based on a projected per-student funding reduction of $268. The group says almost 4,000 school employees could be laid off next fiscal year, on top of an estimated 3,000 teachers, administrators and support staff laid off this year.
Nearly all Washtenaw County schools are considering cutting teachers and other personnel next year. Some, like Chelsea and Saline, are closing schools.
Nearly half of responding school districts said they planned to eliminate or reduce their general fund support for athletics, which could lead to reduced sports programs or more pay-to-play requirements. More than half the districts said they would cut back on field trips, and nearly half said they could might reduce or eliminate transportation for students.
Several more districts could be forced into budget deficits, depending on the health of their reserves and the spending cuts they might make.
The Save our Students coalition supports other changes to help education funding, including proposals that would lead to some school employees paying more for their health coverage.
Comments
bornblu
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 : 11 a.m.
Just a little off topic; the residential home tax structure in Hawaii is as follows: Oahu--$3.29 per $1,000.00 value with an exemption of $80,000.00 (an additional $40,000.00 if over 65). Maui County is at @2.00 per $1,000.00 value with an exemption of $300,000.00 (again residential homes). The low residential tax structure is being blamed for the 17 furlough Fridays applicable to all public schools). The value of purchasing a home in Hawaii (as a resident) is fantastic, it is the tourists that pay extrodinary rates for resort, hotel, condo., etc., taxes. That being said, Proposal A has some significant advantages and disadvantages which necessitate a review, however I would not anticipate the public overturning this to increase homeowner tax liabilities (regardless of the reason). We need to find some other (I hate to say more comprehensive) way to either additionally/totally fund public education. This needs to be done conjunctively with balancing the current budget (all school districts). I don't see any immediate way around the issue without layoffs, consolidation, salary reduction, increased fees, etc. in some combination. What I hope is that we can find some common ground, both now (balanced budget), and in the future with a transition into a new funding method for public education.
jcj
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:04 p.m.
Grinch Grinch if you hire union contractors to do work on your house I have no complaint with your position even if I disagree with some of it. But if you don't hire union your argument seems somewhat diluted.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:51 p.m.
bornblu: One last piece of evidence (out of many) of bad faith at the state level: State Republlicans have touted the proposed mandatory pay cut for all public employees as saving the State of Michigan huge sums of money. This is a lie, pure and simple. The saves the State money only if the employee receives their pay directly from the state (e.g., State Police). But the state will still send cities, townships, counties, K-12 schools, community colleges, and universities the same sum of money it is going to send them whether or not those entities' employees' pay is cut. This state-wide proposal, then (which Fishnuts loves), saves the state not a dime where local government is concerned and removes from local government basic decision-making about their employees. But it does punish public employees and, thereby, their unions. Good Faith? Hardly!
jcj
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:31 p.m.
bornblu You got it right. With all the horn blowing and finger pointing going on here there is not much in the way of constructive suggestions as to where we go from here. But everyone getting to keep what they have would not appear to be an option. Repealing Proposal A would be a start. That way the disproportionate burden of property taxes would be more fair. Lisa Starrfield According to you: "the school district has individuals with in it trained and experienced enough to be able to quantify and evaluate good teaching." But if these same trained individuals decide that there is an incompetent teacher and wants to get rid of them you and your union sing a different tune! You can't play it both ways. I would be willing to bet the farm that if you have work done on your house you do not hire a union contractor.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:26 p.m.
bornblu: A fair question. Here's the problem: Were the goal of Lansing Republicans and of people like braggslaw, fishnuts, and Jimmy Olson an improved and better educational system, I think there is common ground that can be found. Off the top of my head I can think of dozen areas where the MEA and AFT ought be willing to change our schools and the teaching profession in the State of Michigan in order to save taxpayers money and to better serve our children. But I can also see areas on the other side of the ledger that need to be done, too (esp. reform of Prop. A). People of good faith and good intentions ought to be able to sit down like adults and hash these things out. But there is little good faith here. Lansing Republicans have been, for at least 20 years, at war with teachers. Braggslaw, fishnuts, and Jimmy Olson clearly use the cover of caring about education as a means to attack teachers and their unions. I say "clearly" because it is abundantly clear that, on virtually every topic they discuss, they are clueless about what goes on in a classroom and that their real agenda is to punish the unions and their members that they hate. So, any good faith effort on the part of the MEA and the AFT, I am convinced, will not be met with equal good faith. Fishnuts crows about the state simply imposing cuts on public employees, the larger, the better. He revels in the pain this will cause. Good Faith? Hardly. And, in his defense, he is simply mimicking what he hears from the Republican leadership in Lansing. There is no good faith there, either. So do I have suggestions? Absolutely. Am willing to share them and expect the MEA/AFT to do likewise? Absolutely not, because no suggestion, no idea, no new approach will be enough for the union bashers. All those suggestions will do is to move the line, and then even more concessions will be demanded.
Jimmy Olsen
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:21 p.m.
@the grinch - It is Olsen, not Olson. Thank-you. I do not blame the unions. I was a member for 8 years and when I quit my grocery store clerk job in 1981 I was making 10.56 an hour (more than minimum wage 29 year later) - double time on Sunday. Full benefits paid - even legal insurance. It was a great gig. Almost made me not finish college. In case you did not grow up in the Detroit area - all those grocery chains are gone - Chatham, Great Scot!, Farmer Jack, etc. Today those at Meijer, Busch's, etc make? My point is you can't forever expect more and more, when simple economics points out that revenue - expenditures can't be less than zero. Teachers work hard, I work hard - but unfortunately for me, my employer follows the simple economic truth stated above. I agree with bornblu - what do you and Lisa suggest - change in Lansing will not come soon enough - how would you solve the current budget crisis?
bornblu
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:03 p.m.
Lisa and Grinch: We continue to discuss funding of education on this thread (as have done on others) and while there is much of what you say that I agree with, I am still waiting for your answer to one of my basic questions. Again, I admire and respect the work that all those involved in the education of our children provide (even realizing that there may be some who preform at substantially higher/lower levels than others); also question the unfairness of proposal A as one of the major education funding source issues, and believe that you have every right to negotiate your income in any way you feel appropriate (and spend it without restriction). PLEASE though, provide your solution/s to the current budget crisis realizing that at this time there is NO MORE MONEY AVAILABLE. To continue to criticise others who advocate reductions (whether you feel they are fair or appropriate), without your offering alternative viable solutions, accomplishes nothing.
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:36 p.m.
I think taxpayers should have a say in the high level strategic direction of public education. E.g. Choice. I believe choice will lead to better schools and as a consumer of the services I want only the best for my child. Members of the MEA want guaranteed benefits and pay. That is frequently in direct conflict with my child's best interests.
Jimmy Olsen
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:35 p.m.
@the grinch The Saline EA wanted to DELAY their 2.5% raise and add a year to their already burdensome contract - ie., no health care contribution, and everything else stays the same. At the end of the three years - the teachers would not miss a beat in salary, etc. It was not a concession - it was a delay in compensation. The reason for adding the 2.5% and extending....they know that once their current contract expires in 2012 they will likely get no raises, since the economy will not be recovered in Michigan by then, and our "leaders" in Lansing, etc. will still not have a clue as to how to balance a budget.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:32 p.m.
Braggslaw, Just out of curiosity, since we both pay Michigan taxes and clearly have differing opinions on how that money should be spent, who gets to decide? Does whoever pays more taxes win? Or do you think that perhaps you should be able to decide where every little dime you pay goes? Perhaps you wish all your dollars to go to prisons and none to those nasty wasteful public schools. Does that mean that if you refuse to put any money in a pot you don't get to use that service?
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:32 p.m.
Lisa, The choice can be expanded by legislation. Let us not pretend that when I paymy tax dollars it enters the limbo of state govt. without any type of feedback or accountability. And yes eventually I will have the right when state vouchers for education become more expansive. I will never pick a school with unionized teachers. Grinch, I do have a say in the way my taxes are spent, I voted no on the latest tax increase for washtenaw county.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:26 p.m.
Braggslaw, You have always had choice when it comes to your child's education: the free public schools, a private school or even homeschooling. But you don't get to control the public schools just because you pay taxes... my family pays taxes as well and we want to see the schools well funded. But since you hate unions, one must assume that you only shop at Walmart and only buy cars that aren't made by the Big Three. That's not going to help the economy and that isn't going to help jobs recover but I guess it does ease your misguided anger.
Regular Voter
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:21 p.m.
We need to work together, not fight each other. We need leadership to help us get it together. I thought Obama indicated he was the guy to bring us together, shared sacrifice, common goals, a whole new beginning. I'm sure God in his heaven is wondering when we'll figure out how to get along. Fear and ignorance and hate are not helping. But it IS kinda fun to vent on here, isn't it? Doesn't do much to help us understand each other though. When will the internet bring us together? Imagine for a moment all of us reading about a problem that affects us all and through the internet coming together with all our mental and spiritual energy and solving it. How about that kind of world? Is that too far out?
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:17 p.m.
Actually Braggslaw, you don't have the right to decide where your tax dollars are spent nor do you have the right to decide if public employees are unionized. You don't have to like it but you don't get to control it.
Chrysta Cherrie
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:15 p.m.
As the discussion in this story continues, I wanted to remind you all to keep the conversation civil and refrain from personal attacks. More on that in the comment guidelines: http://www.annarbor.com/about/comment-moderation-guidelines-meant-to-cultivate-community-forum/
stunhsif
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:11 p.m.
good banter back and forth between Braggslaw and the who hash eating Grinch! Braggslaw, take a deep breath and quit letting the Grinch get under your skin. The day of reckoning ( did I spell that correctly--not taking the time to look it up) will be upon us shortly and I am confident that you and I will see justice served in the form of state mandated reductions in pay and benefits for all state employees. The light at the end of the tunnel for us is daybreak, the light at the end of the tunnel for the other side is a fast approaching freight train!!!
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:51 p.m.
Grinch, There is a method to remove the monopoly of public schools (vouchers)...and I wanted to see it expanded. I am disgusted by the public school monopoly and I want choice. I don't care if it is a for-profit school, parochial school etc. I love my child more than any teacher's union and I would like to decide where the money I pay in taxes is used. If the public schools can provide a cost-effective product.. great I will use them. If they cannot.. sayonara. I will goto a different provider. That is your lesson on the efficiency of markets.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:36 p.m.
braggslaw: you need to take a high school civics class. You don't get to decide how your tax dollars are spent. Your elected representatives do that. You get to decide who they are. That's it. I didn't want my taxes going to fund the war in Iraq. I didn't want my taxes going to fund banker bailouts. I didn't want my taxes being used to subsidize corporate America. But, during the 8 years of the Shrub regime, that's what happened. My side lost. Elections have consequences and my tax dollars went into rat holes. You may not LIKE the fact that your tax dollars pay for the salary and benefits of union members, but the choice is not yours. It's what a good civics class would teach you is the republican form of government (not to be confused in any way, shape, or form with the Republican Party).
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:09 p.m.
Lisa, Yes you are correct. But I also have the right to decide where my tax dollars are spent. I don't want to pay unionized workers with my tax dollars.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:08 p.m.
Braggslaw, When you obtain a lawyer, yes, you get to choose. You also get to pay the entire bill. At no time do you EVER pay the entire costs of educating your child. Not even close. That is one reason you don't get to pick your child's teachers. There is another. There are 25 to 30 students in my classroom at a given time. And guess what, their parents all have their own ideas about what makes a good teacher but few actually can quantify, qualify or evaluate what is good teaching and what is a good teacher especially given that they rarely are in the classroom and only hear a filtered message about each class. The school district selects teachers for the community because the community AS A WHOLE pays for education within the community and the school district has individuals with in it trained and experienced enough to be able to quantify and evaluate good teaching.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:55 p.m.
Braggslaw, You don't get to decide how I spend my pay. You don't get to decide what I spend on groceries, or which brand of gas I purchase, or whether I take my kids to the movies, or whether I contribute to a union. I am compensated for my services. I have the right to decide how I use that compensation just as you have the right to control your compensation.
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:44 p.m.
Grinch, I get to choose my doctor or lawyer. The public schools choose the teacher for my kid. HUGE DIFFERENCE
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 5:11 p.m.
Ram: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/08/AR2006050801344.html This cites 50% after five years. Other articles cite the 30% after 3. I used to have bookmarked a US Dept. of Ed. report that had the numbers but seem to have deleted it. Trust me (or not), unlike so many of the "statistics" cited in A2.com discussions, this is a real number, not a phantom one. And it is interesting that braggslaw thinks there's an "endless supply" of teachers. That statement tells us the true value he places on the profession. There's also an endless supply of potential lawyers and doctors, but I want to make sure that mine aren't Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble, and I'm willing to pay to make certain that that's the case. But, apparently, Fred and Barney are good enough for our classrooms.
jcj
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 5:04 p.m.
Grinch I could not agree with you more. I do not need a hypothetical. I own a house that I bought 1 1/2 years ago. It would honestly sell for $30,000 - $40,000 less than the houses on either side. Yet my taxes are approaching 3 times as much as theirs for the same "services". I don't know what the best answer is for funding schools. But I know we have to look for cuts everywhere. This includes teachers salaries and benefits. They should not be singled out as the only problem but have to be part of the cuts. I do know proposal A is one of the most unfair things we have done in the last 30 years.
Ram
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 4:40 p.m.
Grinch: Can you cite a source for your statistics there please? I'm in favor of moving the salary systems in education towards performance rather than seniority. There are some lazy teachers who slide by during layoffs when better performing are losing their jobs, and its due to tenure rules. I know this because I am in a public classroom everyday.
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 4:38 p.m.
Lisa, We have discussed this. The state pays your salary.... you pay the MEA.... The MEA lobbies the state to get you more salary... The MEA adds no value to the classroom or to my child.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 3:27 p.m.
jcj: Proposal A is fundamentally unfair. Take the following hypothetical: Family A has lived in their house for 20 years. Proposal A has prevented their property tax from going up (in most cases) reflective of the increased property value. Family B lives next door in the exact same house, but they just bought the house. They will be taxed today at the house's actual assessed value. Forever, then, Family B will pay more tax than Family A even though they own the exact same house. This is the very definition of an unfair tax. Property taxes indeed leave much to be desired as a manner of funding for any level of government, but Prop A has made the problem worse, not better, and has created fundamental unfairness in the way the tax is levied.
jcj
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 3:07 p.m.
motif1 "Everyone who rejoiced at lower property taxes after Proposal A should take a hard look at the repercussions" Did proposal A cut taxes or slow the rate of increases? Had proposal A not gone into affect the effect ( did I get that right?)would have been thus in my opinion. Property taxes would have gone up so dramatically that it would have been hard for anyone to keep up with the increases. And we would have arrived at about the same place but would have taken a different road. Unfortunately proposal A is having a negative impact on home sales now. Because of the uncapping when a property is sold taxes can and do double. Adding a great deal to a mortgage. If EVERYONE would bite the bullet and take a cut more people could remain employed. But almost everyone says not me! Hope I got my grammar correct this time. I was a lowly grunt working with my hands and haven't had much occasion the last 45 years to use it.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:56 p.m.
Braggslaw, The state doesn't fund the union. I and my fellow teachers do. No one is asking you to pay anything toward our union.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:56 p.m.
braggslaw: Obviously you've never spent a day in a classroom as a teacher and have absolutely zero understanding about why teachers succeed or not, nor about why they stay in the profession or leave it. Let me suggest that, since you are so certain what what ought to be done and how teachers ought conduct themselves, you ought to quit your day job and enter the teaching profession and show your community how very easy it is to be a "high performing" teacher (whatever you think that phrase might mean).
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:40 p.m.
Grinch, There is an endless supply of teachers. The good ones should get paid, the bad ones can find another job. If the system was not so heavily slanted towards paying very old teachers more money (based on seniority) and not paying good high performing young teachers more money, young teachers would stay. Pay for performance, not for seniority.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:04 p.m.
braggslaw: 30% of new teachers quit within three years; 50% of new teachers quit within 5 years. They don't quit because they're under worked and overpaid.
motif1
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:44 p.m.
jcj: Well, I would agree with you on one issue. The students of the 60s would most certainly know that an apostrophe does NOT indicate plural (BASIC'S), so in that sense we of that generation sure know more than our kids, but we also find it sad that such vitriol and bitterness pours out of people on this subject. Instead of pointing fingers at teachers (most of whom do NOT drive around in fancy new cars and take exotic vacations), we should be insisting that our inept, self-serving, incompetent legislature do its (note, no apostrophe) job!!! Everyone who rejoiced at lower property taxes after Proposal A should take a hard look at the repercussions and look carefully at California (post Prop13) to see how much worse it's going to get..good luck!!
braggslaw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:08 p.m.
Education should be a top priority of the state. Funding unions should not be. I think they are separate issues, one is a consumer driven (child) issue and the other is a collective bargaining/monopoly issue. Most enterprises when faced with declining revenue would strive to become more efficient and produce the same high quality product. The only comments I get from the teacher's unions are "you have to pay me or your child won't learn". Money=better education etc. Frankly if public schools could hire and fire based upon performance and not years served, the education for my child would be much better. You would not see a great young teacher replaced by a 65 year old gym teacher because of seniority.
MjC
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:30 a.m.
The State of Michigan has cut higher ed by more than $250 million and K-12 by $500 million. The people of this great state should demand funding levels be restored. The education and care of all our children should be a top priority. I don't see any point in reducing the sales tax to 5.5% and making up the difference by adding taxes to other services. Just leave it at 6% and include the other services that should have been included in the first place. At least we have a purchasing say on sales taxes. We are all frustrated, tired, and angry. But our state government should focus on keeping us safe, attracting new businesses, and making sure our children (and future voters) are well educated.
The Grinch
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:27 a.m.
So giving up a future raise is not a concession? OK, so is letting a tax reduction expire the same thing as a tax increase? I'm betting fishnuts thinks so!! What twisted logic you people display.
Susie Q
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:48 a.m.
To all those angry taxpayers: Remember the school and public employees are taxpayers, too. Also, several weeks ago AnnArbor.com published an article based on a Mackinaw Center report that lauded the Ann Arbor Public Schools AND the AAEA for their forward thinking on providing health care insurance to the teachers. The AAPS agreed to contribute a certain amount and the teachers would pay the difference. Last year many teachers paid between 25% and 30% of the cost of their health insurance. That figure is WELL above the estimates for what the average worker pays in Michigan. So if Lansing says I have to pay 20%, that will be a pay raise for many!
stunhsif
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:26 a.m.
Mom In Town, you are 100% correct. Giving up a future 3% raise is not a concession at all.
Mom in Town
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:12 a.m.
ScottyBoy... the article failed to mention I'm sure that the administration rejected the teachers "concession" of giving up their 3% raise because it was not a concession. They wanted to give up their 3% raise this year, but EXTEND their golden contract for another year and get the raise in that year... not really giving up a raise, just adding to the debt!
Steven Harper Piziks
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:02 a.m.
The vitriol here continues to amaze me. The layoffs and cuts are not a plus. They mean that students will be in overcrowded classrooms (fewer teachers means more students per class), which makes it harder for kids to learn. It means middle and high schools will offer fewer classes outside the basics. And all this means our Michigan kids will have a worse education than kids in other states. I want my children to have a good education. I want my first grader to be in a classroom with no more than 20 other students. I want my autistic seventh grader to receive the support and help he needs to succeed, because without it, he'll wither and withdraw. I want my high schooler to have the chance to take an art or music class and see if he has a talent he didn't know he had, and I want him to be able to play a sport after school so he can be a part of his school outside the classroom, make friends he wouldn't have otherwise met, and learn how to discipline himself physically as well as mentally. I want my kids to have a good, solid educational background so they can go into this difficult world with all the tools other kids have. And if we need more revenue to pay for it, I want more revenue to pay for it.
Cici
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:52 a.m.
A LOT of changes are needed. I recall being a HS teacher in a small district some years back. I had to go out and buy my OWN health insurance as the school system didn't even provide that. Now why can't school employees at least pay a fair portion of the cost? Nope, teachers and state employees expect basically free benefits and they aren't even grateful that they have a job, period. I'd love to even have a janitorial job or playground supervisor, or even being a 'gopher' at minimum wage etc. with limited benefits than the 'no job' that I have now. Yes, I am well educated so I am 'overqualified' for even those minimum wage positions. On the teaching issue - I firmly believe the three "R's" are THEE most important things to be learned. Why do we have to pay for remedial courses in these areas when so many of our HS grads go to WCC or college? We fail ourselves when we are willing to pay for 'distractions' of other superfluous courses in our schools. Stop the bleeding of our tax dollars. These cuts are needed. Just as I believe those for city golf courses and parks are. We need to get back to basics in all areas.
ScottyBoy
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.
If you want nice stuff you have to pay for it. The first thing I would cut is all athletic teams. Make them club teams. A recent article in Saline Sting Student paper reported that administrators and support staff gave 2.5 - 3% of wages. It does not mention that the teachers offered to give up their next wage increase, about 3%, which was rejected by the school board.
libertyforall
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:40 a.m.
Vouchers!!!
Awakened
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:28 a.m.
@alphaalpha. If they won't make concessions then layoffs will be required for the cuts.
jcj
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 11:42 p.m.
WLParent Your catching up (PROGRESSIVE THINKING) has done a great job hasn't it! Employers are lined up waiting for your whiz kids to complete college right? I have grand kids in elementary & middle school. I have helped them all do homework. And I see 1st hand what their shortcomings are so don't preach to me about how much better they are taught today! Your kids might be able to program a cell phone or an Ipod but that does not impress me when they could not balance a check book any better than their debt ridden parents who don't know enough not to spend money they don't have! If your teachers are so willing to "do what it takes" why aren't they setting an example and doing something? They are no different than anyone else as far as not wanting to give anything up. However I am tired of hearing that they are untouchable because they have the future in their hands. Bunk!!!
snapshot
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 11:36 p.m.
cmotdibbler, why is it that the children can't be taught in a standardized manner but unions say the subjective evaluations of teachers is off limits, they have to be treated the same? If subjective teaching is necessary for quality student learning why isn't it acceptable for teacher evaluations? Aren't all teachers different in the classroom? Some good some bad? But unions protect them all just the same.
WLParent
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 10:29 p.m.
First, maybe we should have been teaching more than just reading, writing, and arithematic in the 60's. Other countries were teaching more, and that is one of the reasons why we have been trying to catch up for the past 50 years. Second, I am not sure how long it has been since some have crawled from beneath their rocks, but our world has changed in the last 50 years. It is no longer enough to know just how to read, write, spell, and do math. Life is different: technology is everywhere (the need for computer classes), global competition is greater (the need for business classes, econ, and foreign languages to name a few), business is promoted and conducted online (need for web-based classes, marketing, web-design, etc.), bankruptcies and credit card debt are at all-time highs (the need for personal finance classes so hopefully these students won't follow in parents' footsteps), etc,. I could go on as to why we need more, but I think you should get the point. A few other points, I have children in elementary and middle school, and they have not used calculators in any of their math classes. Not sure where you got your data. I would be willing to bet that my kids would out-perform a 60's education anyday! I went to elementary school in the 70's and 80's. What kids are now learning in 2nd grade was part of my 5th grade curriculum. Everything is taught at a much younger age. Furthermore, I would love to sit these 4th graders down next to you 60's people and watch how they kick your butt in technology skills! Last, but certainly not least, many of the teachers I know do not have self-entitlement attitudes. The teachers who are in the middle of the pack to newer teachers are fully aware of the economic situation, and they are prepared to do whatever it takes. Unfortunately, it is your higher-seniority teachers who are usually the ones who are unwilling to make the necessary cuts.... and, if you look, many of them were the ones who were in school in the 60's... quite ironic..... maybe they should have offered some finance classes back then or the math classes they took just didn't add up.
braggslaw
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 9:49 p.m.
People keep trying to tell me that if I give them more of my money (taxes) I will be better off. I say hooey to that. I also am sick of people saying that the entire system will blow up instead of trying to improve the product for the consumer (my children). I am sick of the entitlement felt by state employees and unions.
a2cat
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 9:28 p.m.
I just don't understand celebrating anybody getting laid off. These are tough times, but we're all in it together. We're all part of the same community, this wonderful state and country, for that matter. We need families to want to be in Michigan, and good schools are just one part of a tricky equation. I do think our schools could clean up some of its wasteful spending, but cutting jobs, in any area or capacity, is only going to hurt Michigan's economy in the long run. I would like to see our state legislators look to consolidate some school districts and programs... things that individual school districts just can't do on their own. I'd also like to see us stop spending billions (in the US) on standardized testing that isn't really evaluating teaching or learning. (Testing doesn't make education better!) There is room for creative solutions in our tough economic times, but I for one, am sad to be losing these teachers and will hope these teachers find jobs in Michigan again soon.
AlphaAlpha
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 9:26 p.m.
Layoffs? Why not small compensation reductions instead of layoffs?
stunhsif
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 9:23 p.m.
The public schools and the state of michigan could be just fine next year ( not operate in the red that is ) if state government mandates cuts to pay/pensions/healthcare for all state paid employees. Cut them 7% or whatever amount is needed to get the job done. I am living proof that you can have your pay cut 10% and have healthcare costs double out of pocket. You just don't have two newer cars, you no longer take fancy vacations, you don't eat out as often as you used to and you go to the dollar movies instead of Showcase Cinema's. It is easier to get used to than you might think until you are forced to do it! I am sick of the entitlement attitude displayed by state employees thinking they should not have to share in the economic tsumani that we in the private sector have been suffering for three years or more. Let's not forget that this state has lost 1 million high paying manufacturing jobs since the year 2000 and just a year ago GM and Chrysler filed bancrupcy!
cmotdibbler
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:48 p.m.
jcj: Scientific studies take time and we scientists have to eat and pay the bills too. You don't go into for the money and I put in 60-70 hours per week for the past 20 years. How do you know that a mouse isn't going to be a vector for the next Dengue fever? There are lots of biological compounds that show promise for disease treatment that involve basic study of plants and animals. Judging from SAT scores, my kids would blow away most kids from the 60s (including me), technically they could tie.
jcj
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:27 p.m.
cmotdibbler Obviously I was exaggerating.However it is not an exaggeration to say that there is too much tax money being handed out in the form of grants for worthless studies. If you took students from my 4th grade class in 1960 and put them up against most 4th grade classes now and gave them a test on the BASIC'S it would be no contest. No computers no calculators just what they learn in the classroom each day.
braggslaw
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:27 p.m.
these cuts were absolutely needed.
queenmom
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:19 p.m.
I am not sure why everyone thinks teachers think they are exempt from the cuts?! Oh, that's right...all the auto unions,execs, bankers etc just lined up to get their pay cut right away; so others could keep their jobs. Why don't all you teacher haters keep your children out of public school classrooms?
cmotdibbler
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:16 p.m.
cjc: of course learning how to do basic skills is important but not everyone learns the same way. Perhaps you're an advocate of rote-learning/memorization technique that they do in socialist countries. You are deluded if you think that there are millions of people studying mating habits of mice. Wouldn't it be great if we had the whole asian carp breeding habits worked out?
jcj
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 7:59 p.m.
cmotdibbler I'll tell you what I think. I think that LEARNING how to add and read are more important than half learning 10 ways to do it. There are a ton of intellectual fools working at Micky D's. And another million getting grants to study the sex habits of a mouse!
cmotdibbler
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 7:18 p.m.
Listen to the towering intellects cackle with glee as their children's education goes down the drain. The same people who think teaching readin, riting, rithmitic is the answer to 21st century problems. Probably creationists as well.
Greg
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 7:01 p.m.
Know quite a few teachers and the attitude, in general - not all, is that cuts are for others, not them and their schools. Reality check, bad times apply to everyone, not just others.
scooter dog
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 6:18 p.m.
Not Dexter schools.Their talking about building a $2 million dollar school bus garage."Wow" when will the circus end.If I had my way there would not be ANY, busing.Now days they pick-em up at the door,don't have any set stops on my rd and if the little devils are not out by the side of the rd the bus sits blocking traffic till they run from their house.Rain/shine.WOW curb service
jcj
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 5:55 p.m.
"School districts will lay off more teachers, reduce bus service and trim support for sports next academic year" Did they all have to have a college education to figure that out?? Why should they be exempt from cuts?
yohan
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 5:14 p.m.
About time! Most other sectors of our economy have been suffering in a recession while the schools and universities have only made token cuts. Chop! Chop! Let the blood letting begin. Welcome to my recession. Next in line is the "health care" industry.