Cendra Lynn

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 11:31 p.m.

Please stop reporting that someone's child is adopted. After the child is adopted, it becomes a real child. It is rude and unnecessary to differentiate between birth children and adopted children. It is offensive to everyone in the adoption triangle. Thank you.

clownfish

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 1:18 p.m.

"We still have freedom of speech in this country. Not for long though." Constitution that is under attack and in the process of being destroyed. Nazi Germany here we come. Really? You see concentration camps, stars on sleeves, govt mandated quotas on machinery, invasions of Canada and the Bahamas coming soon? What rights have been "taken" from you? Language like yours is what leads to crazies going over the edge, not health care and road building by the feds. Get a grip, there is much to complain about in this country, but to say we are on our way to Nazi Germany is way out of line. If the censorship in this private site were not so strict I would use a more appropriate term.

Ian

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 10:29 a.m.

@clownfish, "Accused" is right. That is about all the feds have. No evidence except few words probably taken out of context and reported by a FBI informant. We still have freedom of speech in this country. Not for long though. That is what Judge Roberts expressed in her judgment to release the Hutaree members. Would she have done so if there were imminent threat to our police officers? I seriously doubt it. What I heard from the recording is that David Stone wanted to "take our country back" from the "blue helmets." I believe when David Stone talks about the "blue helmets," he is referring to the UN soldiers not our police officers. Most of you are being fooled by the feds and media into demonizing people and groups that just want the freedoms given to them in our Constitution. Constitution that is under attack and in the process of being destroyed. Nazi Germany here we come.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 10:01 a.m.

"Well, duh! Maybe the government asserted they were converted but didn't give Judge Roberts sufficient proof? Apparently it has now been proven it to the grand jury. Could that be it?! " Funny how if that's what they asserted, why aren't additional charges of manufacturing NFA wapons not also in the indictment you referenced? Modifying legal weapons to fire fully automatic and/or shortening barrels by too much is defined by the BATFE as "manufacturing". This also carries stiff penalties. No matter what you think, this still contradicts the previous charges. It doesn't take a ballistics lab or highly complicated tests to determine if a gun can fire fully automatically or if the barrel is too short. A ruler and a magazine of ammunition will make this determination in less than a minute for all the weapons in question. SO that being the case and these weapons being legal 60 days ago, that doesn't raise any questions at all? Regarding Grand Juries; they only make determinations that there is sufficient evidence as presented by (only) the prosecutor to proceed to trial. Take that for what you will.

clownfish

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 7:47 a.m.

Just more harassment to vilify innocent people just because they want to protect their liberties against ever menacing and over reaching tyrannical federal government. Actually, they are accused of desiring to KILL LOCAL government, which would include my family members. Last I checked my family members were not tyrants. Maybe you could list some of the "tyranny" you are afraid of? Rendering of US citizens has been stopped, massive illegal corruption in the White House seems to have stopped, CIA agents are not being outed, no FEMA death camps have been "found", nobody is taking your guns or taxing them for "Obamacare". People are not being fired from federal jobs for having the wrong bumber stickers on their cars, Remember, Jose Padilla was kept for years in solitary, driven insane and is now a terrorist...for doing what the Stones crowd did, just talk. Padillas lawyer: What happened in this trial, I think you have to put it in the context of federal conspiracy law, where the government doesnt have to prove that something happened, but just that people agree that something should happen in the future. In this case, it was even more strained. The crime charged in this case was actually an agreement to agree to do something in the future." How many of the Hutaree supporters defended Padilla during his detainment and trial by the "tyrannical federal government"? CATO, to their credit, did. Did you?

Stupid Hick

Thu, Jun 3, 2010 : 1:03 a.m.

About Judge Roberts' May 3 statement, all it says is the government made assertions and didn't offer sufficient evidence. So now evidence has been presented. It convinced a grand jury to indict. What's so hard to understand about that? Did anyone here use google to find the actual indictment, before speculating on topics such as whether the term "machine gun" is being misapplied to weapons with short barrels, ahem, "to scare the masses"?! Hint: it's linked to clickondetroit dot com. Three Double Star AR-15 knockoffs, another made by Mega Machine Shop, and one with filed-off serial numbers whose manufacturer could not be identified. Cue the crackpots: "But, but... those might be semi-automatic!" Well, duh! Maybe the government asserted they were converted but didn't give Judge Roberts sufficient proof? Apparently it has now been proven it to the grand jury. Could that be it?! It's a free country, and you can fantasize the grand jury was hoodwinked into believing that rifles with short barrels equal machine guns, or whatever. Anything but accept the possibility that your militant ilk actually broke the law.

Ian

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 9:36 p.m.

Isn't it strange that the feds did not charge them with possessing "machine guns" the first time. The feds can't tell the difference between a semi-automatic rifle and a machine gun the first time they examined the guns???!!!!! The Feds are grasping at straws since they have NO case against these guys. Just more harassment to vilify innocent people just because they want to protect their liberties against ever menacing and over reaching tyrannical federal government. Some day they will come for all of us that dissent.

Ricebrnr

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 4:50 p.m.

Well since AA.com staff seem to be busy today. In summary: Per the linked article the basis of the illegal firearm charges are due to barrel lengths being too short. A 'machine gun' as defined by the BATFE must be capable of firing fully automatically. ASSuming a barrel is too short (which in Michigan may still not be illegal depending on various factors), this still in no way affects the fire control systems of ANY firearm to make it a 'machine' gun. As usual the term 'machine' gun is being used to scare the masses and in this case to further bolster an obviously weak case and delay release of the remaining Hutaree members. And as llspier put it, how did weapoms declared legal in every report since the arrests, all of a sudden become terrifying machine guns?

llspier

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 3:53 p.m.

From Judge Roberts statement of May 3, 2010 regarding the evidence presented: "UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN SOUTHERN DIVISION UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff(s), CASE NUMBER: 10-20123 HONORABLE VICTORIA A. ROBERTS v. D-1 DAVID BRIAN STONE, D-2 DAVID BRIAN STONE, JR., D-3 JOSHUA MATTHEW STONE, D-4 TINA MAE STONE, D-5 JOSHUA JOHN CLOUGH, D-6 MICHAEL DAVID MEEKS, D-7 THOMAS WILLIAM PIATEK, D-8 KRISTOPHER T. SICKLES, D-9 JACOB J. WARD, Defendant(s). 8. Legality of Weapons There is no evidence that the Defendants could not legally possess weapons. All of the Defendants weapons and ammunition were legal, with the exception of some weapons found in David Stones house. The Government proffers that David Stone had 3-4 firearms that were not the legal length (according to the Government, at least one of these firearms may belong to David Stone, Jr.). Even assuming this proffer is accurate, there is no evidence that David Stone, or David Stone, Jr., used weapons to commit an assaultive crime. In addition, the Government proffers that Joshua Stone engaged in illegal efforts to convert a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic weapon. There is no evidence that any automatic weapons were found." So suddenly 60 days later in a different court, a Grand Jury finds evidence that these people had something the Feds themselves could not verify at arrest? Something smells very stinky here! Whether you like these folks or not, justice distorted is NOT justice! As has been the basis of discussion in several recent federal cases, the use of improper ammunition in some perfectly legal weapons can cause a double mis-fire under certain circumstances. This has nothing to do with the weapon being modified but is simply a misuse of the weapon creating an anomaly. ATF has attempted to use this anomaly against one than one gun dealer to date. Since evidence on May 3rd didnt show any evidence of any modified weaponry, a sensible person has to question how this same weapon (if it IS the same weapon) became an illegal machine gun? Most of the state has decided this is simply yet another Fed-orchestrated, put-up job to generate fear among the gullible. Gullible allows for abuse by government. It may not be your ox that is gored THIS time, but your day will invariably come if you allow this to continue without asking hard Constitutional questions! This country has survived for over 200 years based on the Rule of Law. It's continued survival demands that ALL citizens insist that it be followed in ALL instances-including this one!

Ricebrnr

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 3:53 p.m.

@AA.com How about releaseing my 1st response? The links that are holding it up were links to the BATF or MI laws. There was nothing objectionable in the content and in fact should educate those who need schooling. @Bedrog, you should be careful who you label and how you lump people together. I don't think much of Palin either and do not fit your misconceptions.

tdw

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 3:48 p.m.

@bedrog I would be happy to help those affected BTW before you correct my spelling you may wish to look at your pronunciation errors

bedrog

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 2:49 p.m.

thanks guys..in an increasingly unpredictable world its always nice to have something reliable to amuse and entertain, ( it's 'speech' by the way tdw... also, although its somewhat off topic...but related, im mildly curious as to where all y'all government hatas ( including the paul's sr and jr) might stand on the oil leak and the implications it has for,say, economic help for the afflicted which might actually be possible only via the ( horrors!!) national taxation policies...cause it sure aint coming from the states involved..let alone individual tea partiers ( who may well be among those soon to be asking for it). and 'drill baby drill'...remember that one from your gal??

tdw

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 2:09 p.m.

@bedrog speaking of head in the sand the only ( as in one )illegal fire arm was one with a distroyed serial number as for free speach its covered by the Constitution even if you don't agree it.Sorry

Ricebrnr

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 2:07 p.m.

@Bedrog Drinking the cool aid again? "Indisputable"? All of a sudden the seized weapons which were deemed legal in ALL other articles since the day of their arrest are MACHINE GUNS? Horrors! Well why weren't they charged with this before then? You'll just have to wait for my detailed comment to be released...

bedrog

Wed, Jun 2, 2010 : 1:54 p.m.

sooo...the DEFENSE lawyers are claiming 'irrational and hateful 'speech by their clients...who also indisputably had illegal arms and expressed lethal aims. 'ricebrnr' or other ", untrammelled ''free- speech'' -head in the sand -'libertarianistas'- in- an- age- of runaway -crackpottery?