Mackinac Center Legal Foundation files motion to prevent U-M graduate research assistants from unionizing
This story has been updated
The Mackinac Center Legal Foundation filed a motion Thursday with the Michigan Employment Relations Commission seeking to prevent University of Michigan graduate research assistants from being unionized. The motion is being brought on behalf of a U-M grad student.
Legal foundation director Patrick Wright said the Michigan Employment Relations Commission has already rejected the rights of graduate research assistants to unionize in a 1981 ruling in response to a petition by the Graduate Employees Organization, or GEO. The GEO is the same union applying to MERC now to organize graduate research assistants.
Melinda Day, a graduate research assistant in the Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology Department at the university, said she believed the U-M Board of Regents intruded on her relationship with her mentor when it voted 6-2 to allow graduate research assistants to unionize.
Day said she believed the motion by regents that allowed graduate research assistants to unionize was a betrayal of her rights as a student and would ultimately harm her education experience.
“I frankly feel betrayed by the university’s regents because I’m here to be a student, I’m here to learn how to become an independent researcher,” she said. “Everything I do in my day-to-day activities is geared to that goal. This is frankly a violation of what is a sacred and sacrosanct relationship between me and my mentor.”
The motion was announced at a press conference Thursday at the Michigan Union.
Graduate research assistants have not unionized to this point, according to GEO officials. The union is still in negotiations with the university on how to bring the research assistants into the union. Wright said filing the motion with MERC was an attempt to stop the process before it even got started.
The Mackinac Center estimated that if graduate research assistants were to join the union, the GEO’s membership would double and the total amount of dues collected would double to more than $1 million annually, according to statistics provided by the legal foundation.
Wright said the decision made in 1981 by the MERC was an exhaustive 19-day hearing that looked at a number of different employee groups and the university. He said the commission ruled that graduate research assistants were not public employees but students and therefore were not allowed to unionize.
“The regents don’t have the power to rewrite the law,” Wright said. “It is determined to be the law based on the statute and based on MERC’s ruling that graduate student research assistants do not meet the definition of employee and cannot be unionized.”
The decision to allow the graduate research assistants to unionize came during the May 19 regents meeting at the University of Michigan-Dearborn. U-M President Mary Sue Coleman advised the regents during her opening remarks at the meeting to vote against the resolution, saying allowing graduate research assistants to unionize would harm the relationship between faculty members and graduate students.
The decision to involve the Mackinac Center Legal Foundation came after the regents' vote, when Day reached out to the foundation to see what legal recourse could be made against the decision, she said.
Day accused the GEO of wanting to organize graduate research assistants solely to increase its dues and membership.
During her remarks, she said the GEO did not ask graduate research assistants whether they wanted to become part of the union. She said there wouldn’t be more protections given to researchers, as they already have a number of federal protections.
A number of GEO members were present at the press conference, wearing the red shirts that have become synonymous across the country with pro-union sentiments.
Sam Montgomery, the president of the GEO, said the union would stand behind the regents’ decision and believed the Mackinac Center motion misrepresented the union’s aims.
“Basically, all we can do is support the University of Michigan Board of Regents’ decision,” Montgomery said. “We’ve been working with GSRAs who want this, otherwise we wouldn’t have filed the petition in the first place.”
Kelly Cunningham, university spokesperson, said the university was notified of the motion this morning and is still reviewing the filing.
"We continue to negotiate with GEO-AFT/MI and MERC on the definition of the bargaining unit as well as terms of the election process to determine whether the GEO will represent the graduate student research assistants," she said in a statement.
Kyle Feldscher covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at kylefeldscher@annarbor.com or you can follow him on Twitter.
Comments
Bogie
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 6:08 p.m.
Funny. You see words like "tea party, extemist, koch brothers, and walmart" in these comments. What is so extreme about a woman not wanting to join an organization? The laws should protect people from that. Unions are the only organizations, that trump the law. Does anyone here think that the cost of education will go down, if the GEO is implemented? I see it, as another ploy of elitist educators, who want more foot soldiers out there, pounding their chest for the state education system. The "good ol' boys" are trying to get things back to where they were before- an open checkbook. For all those out there echoing the cause of solidarity, "How's that union working for you?" This state has been the worst in most economical indicators. If I had a business, do you think I would locate it in a state, that has unionized grad students? Also, if you don't like Wallyworld; the Koch Brothers; or tea party. Boycott them! or don't vote for them! Come on people, do you really need another six figure, underworked person representing you? Don't we have enough of those in Lansing and DC?
Michigoose
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 9:16 p.m.
GEO stewards are members of the organization serving as unpaid volunteers. The union has one staffperson who does not make anywhere near 6 figures. If the union were voted in, Ms. Day would not be required to join.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 8:30 p.m.
"What is so extreme about a woman not wanting to join an organization?" It's not extreme for anyone to not want to join any organization. It is, however, extreme for her and her counsel file a lawsuit to take away the rights of everyone that DOES want to join an organization. What is so extreme about allowing others to join if they wish to? What is so extreme about allowing the democratic process play out? Secondly, unless you've worked for a union as a business rep., or at least as a steward, you have no concept of what they do and/or how hard they work to protect the rights of workers, so please, keep your uneducated comments ("Come on people, do you really need another six figure, underworked person representing you?") to yourself. I was a steward for several years for a local union and never once got anywhere close to 6 figures, and worked my a$$ off serving the union membership. I have the experience to back up my claims. I'm thinking you probably don't, especially when you make comments such as the one above.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 7:38 p.m.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 1st Amendment of the US Constitution
timjbd
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4 p.m.
It is HIGHLY unlikely that this student "reached out" to the Mackinac Center. They (the Mackinac Center) went trolling for someone to bring action- that's how they operate and GAIN standing. They see ANY advances in union membership as something that must be stopped at all costs. The Mackinac Center is wholly funded by the infamous Koch Brothers, The DeVos family, the Walmart Waltons, the Prince family (of Blackwater infamy) and their ilk. And they and the ALEC co-ordinate with the Heritage Foundation, the CATO Institute, et al, to open public assets for private seizure. Unions are the enemy. Read more about it here: <a href="http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/michigan-snyder-mackinac-center" rel='nofollow'>http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/michigan-snyder-mackinac-center</a> and here: <a href="http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/2011/03/15/alec/" rel='nofollow'>http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/2011/03/15/alec/</a>
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
To Olive, Ya, but they get a whole lot of Koch money. This is what this is all about. Nothing more.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:17 p.m.
mt, An American founding father, Dr Benjamin Rush, called this domiciliary vexation. Party before country, pure and simple. To wit: The Bush v gore Citizen United v Federal Elections Commission Tea Zombies or bust Judiciary abolishing mandatory appeals
Josh Skodack
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:55 p.m.
I see our local neoconservative drone chase is on here posting lies yet again. Here are the facts Chase. The regents approved umich graduate research students to unionize. Giving them permission to vote on unionization. They have not unionized. Perhaps you should actually read the regent decision. I see you are posting conservative anti-union lies again. GEO is in the process of getting information out to the GSRA's about the vote to unionize. The Vote among the GSRA's has not happened yet. next time read up on the situation before spouting out anti-union nonsense.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:27 p.m.
If the guy is so limited so as to actually put his children in his avatar at all, let alone to showcase said limitations, facts are the last thing he wants to get in the way of his nihilism. I mean really ...
mt
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:32 p.m.
The Mackinac Center is the same group whose ideas have led to the Republican/Now Synder Michigan depression. Seems they want to share their pain with college kids now.
a2citizen
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 6:07 p.m.
Thank god, cuz I was feeling blown away.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 3:24 p.m.
a2 crasher, Your answer is a resounding NO
a2citizen
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:39 p.m.
Does Granholm fit anywhere in there?
Disco D
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.
It appears to me from this article the Regents have over stepped their bounds by 1) going against existing law, 2) infringing on the rights of the group to unionize themselves if they choose to or not and 3) pandering to unions. Given there are 6 Democrats and 2 Republicans on the U of M Board of Regents, this 6-2 vote is clearly along party lines, which backs my 3rd point. And to Mr. Swift's comment that the Mackinac Center is a splinter extremist group when it is in fact a well established conservative think tank, widely quoted and responsible for promoting sound public policy, the only thing you can do is name call to show your colors. I applaud Ms. Day's efforts to stand up for her rights and for her wisdom to seek support from the Mackinac Center.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:30 p.m.
Disco duh, Read slowly: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 1st Amendment of the US Constitution
cette
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
I found something you wrote early Disco D. about schools, and that's the quote, very well written pro Mackinac policy arguments. Sound public policy, not possible coming out of the Mack...it has one agenda and one agenda only, to increase corporate profits..what it has to do to make that happens is this kind of stunts, honestly, what do they care about the grad students of Michigan? not one little bit, but they would like to break up unions, because mean more money for them. Look, you can't say denying health care to autistic kids is good public policy, but it is considered a very probusiness stance. Going after public unions is very meddlesome, people have a right to unionize, and there's good reasons for that. It's all about having checks on abuses of power, as power corrupts absolutely.
cette
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:15 p.m.
"The systemic problem that run through, not only schools but all of the public sector, is the failed concept of collective bargaining with the unions. In the private sector, owners bargain with the unions and have a vested interest in the outcome. In the public sector, our elected "representatives" and their administrators are charged with the responsibility of bargaining with the unions. The problem is the majority of elected officials and administration are of the same political persuasion and ideology. They have no vested interest except their own jobs. The first they think of with budget shortfalls is to tax their constituents. This creates a situation where the group with the vested interest, us taxpayers, have no voice in the collective bargaining process. Well, the time has come for this sacred cow of public sector unions to be butchered. It will be interesting to see how President Obama, who rode on the backs of the NEA and the SEIU members into the White House, will react to the busting of unions in non-performing school districts." Wow, good writing,I don't agree with you, though... are you from the Mackinac Center?
cette
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:09 p.m.
No, no, no.... they don't have sound public policy, they are a lobby group for wealthy business people dressed up as a think tank. You can put a mule in horse harness, but he's still a mule.
rusty shackelford
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:39 p.m.
The notion that GEO is 'greedy' is beyond specious. It is a non-profit group that has one or possibly two paid staffers for a group with hundreds of members. Who, exactly, stands to benefit monetarily, oh you dark intimators?
kilroy
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 11:08 a.m.
The Mackinac Center Legal Foundation is a right wing libertarian group of extremist lawyers funded by the Amway Corporation family. They are notorious for meddling in other folks' business and have only one interest, which is to return this country to the 18th Century.
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:31 a.m.
We the people elected the board of regents at UM. WE the people. Not the Tea Party wealthy......ALL citizens can vote. This isn't a third world country with the rich controlling our choices....YET. But in Michigan we are teetering dangerously close to it. Our taxes are being funneled to big corps thru SPARK, a creation of Snyder's. A person appointed by Snyder can come in and rule your city or township. A wealthy group can challenge a decision of an elected college board. The Tea Party is quickly turning Michigan into Pakistan.
a2citizen
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:48 p.m.
No. I mean: The UofM won't be paying the group formed as a union, but the GSRA's will be. And where do the GSRA's get their salary? That's right....the UofM. And where does the UofM get its money? That's right...from the taxpayer. In the end it's tax dollars ending up in slot machines in Vegas. I'm just trying to figure out why you have an issue with "big corps" getting funneled tax dollars but don't have an issue with the UofM getting funneled tax dollars. Good grief.
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.
If yo umean the workers get PAID, you are correct. UM will not be paying the group formed as a union. Good grief. And really I doubt you'd hear the UM hierarchy complaining about anyone's "junkets". Don't think they want to go there.
a2citizen
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:36 p.m.
And our taxes are also getting funnelled to the University of Michigan, which then get funnelled to GSRA's....which will apparently be funnelled to unions. The unions will then spend the money on junkets to Vegas.
nicole
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 3:20 a.m.
What's with all the pro-union sentiment? There's no choice when a union is involved. You have to join and pay dues. Are graduate students really doing so poorly? Jeez. Calm down people.
Josh Skodack
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
wrong, the vote to unionize is democratic. A majority of the GSRA's need to vote to unionize before they become a member of the GEO.
clownfish
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 11:13 a.m.
There are lots of choices: Vote for or against the union. Go to or don't go to a unionized organization. run for union steward and affect the group. vote for new regents.
Basic Bob
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:45 a.m.
Personally, I understand why people might want a union to represent them for a full-time career position. Some people prefer to strike out on their own and represent themselves to their employer, I might reasonably call these people professionals. I don't see the need to have a union represent part-time temporary workers, especially when their goals are to get some research experience, write a thesis, and earn a degree. If their "work" is interfering with their "education", something is wrong and they need to work less hours, not justify it with mandatory overtime pay. OTOH, if they are pursuing a graduate student research position as a full-time career, they need to get a real job that pays. These grad students are so close to becoming professionals, it is not surprising that some start to act like them. They should not be forced to join a union in order to complete their education.
godsbreath64
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.
The crisis of confidence in state and federal judiciaries is unmistakable. So your commentary is conspicuous at best, Bobby. Just this morning, The SCOMI exonerated a jail officer caught with evidence of sexual extortion during booking procedures. Check out their work flow, Bobby. <a href="http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/SCT/20110729_S139505_148_hamed-op.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/SCT/20110729_S139505_148_hamed-op.pdf</a> The pandemic of legislating from the bench is being effectuated by the same caucus from The Federalist Society whose mission statement is to, dispute their constitutional charge, preserve and expand the authority of the (persons of) state. Any dispute there Bobby? I didn't think so. TFS gave america their tally over the public's votes in The Bush v Gore. Then they concocted corporate citizenry in Citizens United v The Federal Elections Commission when the constitution plainly reads "all power is inherent in the PEOPLE", Bobby. One can always tell if a partisan judicial appointment succeeded on behalf of the constitutional state by how they act within the appointment. Judges act like judges and accept their Constitutional charge at all times. Lawyers do nothing more than give their clients relief pursued whether it can be confused as law abiding, or not. Also this morning, a federals appeals court exonerated a lawyer a juror signed an affidavit that was sleeping in a trial resulting in imprisonment for some twenty years. Again Bobby, lawyering from the appellate bench. Check it out. <a href="http://www.freep.com/article/20110730/NEWS02/110730007/1001/rss01" rel='nofollow'>http://www.freep.com/article/20110730/NEWS02/110730007/1001/rss01</a> But we can be sure you knew this already, despite your claims to the contrary.
Basic Bob
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 6:30 a.m.
I have no idea what you just said.
godsbreath64
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 3:13 a.m.
Yes Bobby. A theory of judiciaries meeting public obligation. Didn't Charles Kauthammer(sp?) just incorporate Abe Lincoln in his column today? Be honest. Is credible government an american dream now, or must it continue on with the gloss of fables?
Basic Bob
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:54 p.m.
@gb64, I understood your comment each time. They are already assembled as an organization, within their right. Since I am not a legal expert (clearly you are more knowledgeable in this area), please tell me which courts interpreted the first amendment as a right to collective bargaining.
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.
"I don't see the need to have a union represent part-time temporary workers, especially when their goals are to get some research experience, write a thesis, and earn a degree." I don't see that it matters if you think it is a need or not....it is the right of the majority to vote yea or nay, not ours.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:16 a.m.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 1st Amendment of the US Constitution
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:11 a.m.
""I frankly feel betrayed by the university's regents because I'm here to be a student, I'm here to learn how to become an independent researcher," she said. "Everything I do in my day-to-day activities is geared to that goal. This is frankly a violation of what is a sacred and sacrosanct relationship between me and my mentor." And so therefore you think it's perfectly acceptable to force your desire to not unionize on everyone else, whether they like it or not? Even upon others that mighit want to vote in a union? What makes you so special, Ms. Day, that you should unilaterally have any decision-making power over anyone else? If you choose to vote "no" to unionization, that's fine. But you have no right to take away the opportunity for others to vote "yes" if that's what they want to do. Get over yourself.
Jonny Cache
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:42 a.m.
Nothing about being a student says you have to get paid for graduate assistant work. If the plaintiff wants to be a pure student, and neither desires nor needs the "intrusion" of participating in a salaried work force, then she is perfectly free to do all the same work on a volunteer basis, for all the educational benefit that it affords her.
lefty48197
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:30 a.m.
As usual, the kooks at the Mackinac Center are butting into other people's lives and working hard to make those lives difficult. A little more money in your paycheck? OH NO! That's socialism! Soon you'll be inviting Joseph Stalin to runt he University! Boogie Boogie Boogie!!!! Quit calling yourselves the "Mackinac" center and call yourselves what you are: The Grand Rapids Mafia trying to ruin the lives of others. Nothing more, nothing less.
Jonny Cache
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:46 a.m.
Get your facts straight. It's the Midland Mafia.
Cash
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:15 p.m.
Extreme right wing wealth trying to take over the rights of every citizen......taking away their rights to form a group, taking away their right to vote and choose their own leaders. People better step up and speak against them. We are losing our rights very quickly.
Will Warner
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:34 p.m.
"Well let's hope soon the feds create and EFM and come and take over the state of Michigan. Then President Obama can take over for Snyder. You'd be fine with that as well." The relationship of the cities to the state is unlike that of the states to the federal government. The states came together to create and empower the federal government. But cities are chartered by the State which remains responsible for them and cannot stand by why they bankrupt themselves.
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:25 p.m.
Well let's hope soon the feds create and EFM and come and take over the state of Michigan. Then President Obama can take over for Snyder. You'd be fine with that as well.
Will Warner
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.
"And this group is trying to usurp the authority of the ELECTED board of regents and take that power from the voters." It seems to me the Mackinaw Center is doing what the ACLU often does—advance an unpopular cause in order to force adherence to the law as it is. As I read the article, the Center is arguing that the law as it is does not permit the regents to grant permission to students to unionize. If they are right (IF they are) its doesn't matter how large a majority of people want it, it can't happen. We are constantly hearing, for example, how the 14th amendment takes certain decisions out of the hands of the people. "Asking for another election is recognizing the right to vote for the people who govern. If he wins, he is governor." Are you saying that if Rick survives the recall, there won't be another? How can you promise that? "EFMs usurp our right to vote for our elected officials....and put it in the hands of some person chosen by the State." We elected the people who run the State and created the EM law and choose the EMs. Further, municipalities exist at the sufferance of the State and their populations don't have the right to vote to continue policies that are bankrupting them.
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:43 p.m.
Will, Asking for another election is recognizing the right to vote for the people who govern. If he wins, he is governor. EFMs usurp our right to vote for our elected officials....and put it in the hands of some person chosen by the State. And this group is trying to usurp the authority of the ELECTED board of regents and take that power from the voters. This is dangerous territiory.
Will Warner
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:34 p.m.
"We elected a Board of Regents. WE elected a board of regents. We ELECTED a board of regents. Got that? WE decide by electing officials." Agreed. Now tell that to the "Recall Rick" folks.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.
Stephen, they won't require it. You will be free to transfer top another University at your will. This is not a "right to work" state. Get used to it. If you'd prefer, Florida is a right to work state. Why not just move there?
Cash
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:27 a.m.
We elected a Board of Regents. WE elected a board of regents. We ELECTED a board of regents. Got that? WE decide by electing officials. This isn't a third world country where the rich choose our officials and make their decisions for them.
Stephen Landes
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:14 a.m.
I have no problem with them forming a union as long as they don't require all GSRA's to join or pay dues. Rights work both ways.
John B.
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:39 p.m.
What Cash said...!
Ashok Gopalakrishnan
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:03 p.m.
This comment is not directly related to the topic, but how about unionizing postdocs? The university has strict guidelines on GSI and GSRA stipends, but postdocs don't seem to come under those guidelines. The NIH (National Institutes of Health) stipulates postdoc salaries in the life sciences, but I know of several postdocs who are paid much below the NIH scale.
cette
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:44 p.m.
Sure, people can comment, and complain about things. Isn't that what the Mack is doing? Do they really care about grad students, oh WalMart and Meijer rich people? Anybody has the right to comment, and the motivation for the Mack's actions and the agenda about the Mack is front and center, when they put they put themselves front and center. I am still steamed about their urging State Senators and stand firm and just say no to autism insurance, like it would be some kind of acquired vice, some kind of pestilence upon the state to insure those kids, instead of good public policy, so yeah, I'll complain and point out what not nice people they are.
Jake
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:47 p.m.
Unless you're a CURRENT GSRA, you shouldn't have any comments on this story. It doesn't affect you, so it's easy for you to bring politics into this and name-call and talk about how things were for you way back in the day. You all are too interested in furthering your own agendas/beliefs than actually thinking what's best for the grad STUDENTS. Yes, we are paid by the university, but we are students first and foremost and our stipend is only to help us out while we spend an extra 5+ years in school. If students can unionize, let's get the undergrads in on this one too! Doesn't Ms. Day have the freedom of speech like all of you posting here? The Board of Regents are politicians, not the grad students' Guardian Angels here. So, doesn't she have the right to bring forward any complaints about students' (not employees, but students!) right (or lack thereof) to unionize?
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:22 a.m.
Jake: "Doesn't Ms. Day have the freedom of speech like all of you posting here?" Sure she does, and so do you and I and everybody else. She does not, however, have the right to try to take away the other GA's right to vote in a union simply because she doesn't want to be a member of one. If she wants to vote no to unionization, that's her right. But if the other GA's, however many of them there are, want to vote in a union, and have the votes to do it, her right to not beloong to a union does not supercede theirs.
a2 Brute?
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:12 a.m.
Kinda like being a little bit pregnant.
Jake
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:04 a.m.
Chill out. Just saying that if you aren't a current GSRA, you are probably not as well-informed as actual GSRA's. You are entitled to your opinion, but to post your comment like you know enough about current grad school issues to be judgmental... it's just silly! FYI not all GSRA's are funded by taxpayer dollars. Also, personal attacks are pretty lame.
lefty48197
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:42 a.m.
EVERYBODY has a right to speak up for the GSRAs who want representation, especially when ONE individual has brought in an outside organization with no real interest in this story EXCEPT that they hate unions. THAT is their agenda.
a2 Brute?
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:41 a.m.
Actually, the university is publicly funded and pays the GSRA's with taxpayer provided funds. As a taxpayerI will comment if I like. I have no other comment at this time.
BHarding
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:41 p.m.
@ Jay McNally There is no contract between the employer and the union until a union is formed. Then the hours and restrictions have to be mutually agreed on. Every union is different depending on the work. Generally, workers receive extra compensation when they work more than 40 hours a week. That seems unlikely for students attending classes.
JD
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:15 p.m.
Only GSRAs will have the decision to decide whether to unionize GSRA if all goes as planned. While this may sound like a simple concept it's important to realize that not all graduate student are either a GSI or GRSA. Many of us are supported by fellowships for various lengths of time. If I am not currently a GSRA, I won't get to vote but I WILL be forced to pay dues when my funding is up and I am re-classified as a GRSA. Nothing will have changed other than my source of support. My expectations in lab and the relationship with my mentor would remain the same. But in the case of unionization, I would all of a sudden be unable to directly "bargain" with my mentor in regards to hours worked, vacation, etc. and I would be forced to pay for a union to do it for me. Not to mention the fact that if problems arise and I need support from the union, I better hope it happens in that narrow window when I'm technically a GRSA. Otherwise I'm left to use, well, the support Rackham already offers. Really, this whole thing just seems silly.
cette
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:23 p.m.
The only thing Mackinac.org wants ultimately is more profits, and that would mean stomping unions(and autism insurance for kids with autism) down as much as possible. I think don't think they are quite the lunatic fringe, but they an unusual set of "thinkers." I often think of them as the elite set in "Remains of the Day" the elites who tried to make peace with Hitler in England before the war. Good policy is never the issue, profits, what they believe to be right, is, because, you know they are rich, so they go around trying to promote their agenda, even when it's nonsensical,and not what the actual government stands for, and they have money, so they do stunts like this.
John B.
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 3:45 a.m.
Well-played, sir! ...and it's now 16 people.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 7:27 p.m.
. . . which, as I recall, is a couple of votes more than the Republican candidate for State Senate received. Good Night and Good Luck
Chase Ingersoll
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.
good grief.....and 7 people voted for this comment.....
newsboy
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:57 p.m.
Want to save the university $760.169 per year? Goodbye Mary Sue, hello heart! Please come back Lee!
BioWheels
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:43 p.m.
The Mackinac Center is a right wing think tank that should be disbanded and does not represent the majority of Michigan voters or residents. They have no standing on issues such as this, and should keep their "research" to ousting the governor.
Chase Ingersoll
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:31 a.m.
Tell that the Republican Majority in the Michigan House, Senate and Executive office. And mark you another commentor that won't let facts get in the way of ill informed opinion.
Victor22
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:11 p.m.
I can't believe a fellow research assistant at U of M would bring in a Tea Party think tank and attempt to disenfranchise me from voting on my right to be represented by a union. This behavior is sickening. Also, I'm a GSRA and most of us around campus know what GEO is like. It is a good, democratic union run by volunteers. Why in the world would a bunch of volunteers who will be faculty in a few years be concerned with raising dues money? Dues are only important in as far as they allow the union to function (i.e. bargaining). And this language about imposing constraints is bizarre. The union is a democracy, why would my fellow GSRAs choose to bargain a contract that would harm them? And why would I file a grievance if it would harm my research agenda? The union provides us with minimum protections over wages, benefits, and safety that are not otherwise guaranteed and allows us to speak with a unified voice to communicate our concerns to the university. I understand that some folks have had bad experiences with bad unions. GEO is not one of them. They're the good guys who really practice what the preach.
Michigoose
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 9:02 p.m.
Chase, both the Mackinac Center and the Tea Party receive funding from sources such as the Koch brothers. The Tea Party was created recently by the same interests as ALEC, the Mackinac Center, the Heritage Foundation, Citizens for a Sound Economy, and a host of other think tanks and Astroturf groups. Although Mackinac is older than the Tea Party and may be less theocratic, they are from a close family.
Chase Ingersoll
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:30 a.m.
Hey Victor....you couldn't resist joining the ranks of people that don't check their facts. Mackinaw Center has been around for years. Tea Party as you think you know of it....2009. Save your sickness for the Day Care operators who got unionized by Granholm so her union thugs could steal a portion of those women wages. Deception and thuggery won't find justification in Democracy, any more than the Democratization of theft or rape.
Kafkaland
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.
@Meg: the difference between being a GRSA and a GSI is huge - at least in the natural sciences, engineering, and the medical sciences. GSIs work part-time grading, teaching discussion sections, etc. to get paid. None of this contributes to their dissertations, in fact, it's usually considered wasted time by most GSIs. So they count hours, holidays, etc., and bargaining over these makes sense. They accept GSI positions because otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford grad school. And the supervisor of their teaching is usually not their theisis mentor. GSRAs, on the other hand, get essentially paid to do research that goes directly into their dissertation. In that sense, it's more like a fellowhsip than a job. GSRAs typically put in whatever time it takes to get the data they need for their dissertation. And if you have a sample that you worked long and hard to prepare you will take data no matter whether your weekly hours are up or not. Union rules can get in the way of this - working unpaid overtime hours in the lab can be construed as unfair labor practice, even if someone does it out of their own volition for their own dissertation. And your supervisor is your dissertation committee chair and mentor; generally both the student and the mentor are equally vested in the success of the research and should be able to work things out without rigid union contract rules.
Stephen Landes
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:39 p.m.
Unionization is in the works because it was the politically expedient thing for Democrats to do when public employee unions are being pressured all across the country. This is just cynical political self-serving action by the Dem regents.
Kafkaland
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.
Meg, if you put this all in terms of abuses of the system, I guess the question that every GSRA voting in the election has to ask him or herself is whether any additional protection beyond the existing formal and informal grievance mechanisms is worth a few hundred dollars a year in union dues. And the fact that a few good universities are unionized doesn't mean that they couldn't be better if they weren't. If Harvard, Stanford, Caltech and Princeton had unionized GSRAs, your point would be more convincing.
Meg
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:13 p.m.
If there weren't abuses of the system, unionization wouldn't be in the works. And again, there are multiple examples of peer universities with unionized grad students. Are you arguing that their work is somehow inferior to that at Michigan? Because I've been a grad student under both systems, and I don't really see how the University of Washington's students suffer from bing unionized.
Meg
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:47 p.m.
I'm still not understanding how GSRAs at Michigan are so different from their peers at the University of Washington and the UC system, both of which have been union for years. Or, for that matter, how GSRAs educational needs are so different than those of GSIs, who are union at Michigan and have been for decades, especially since in some disciplines the same students will fill both roles in different semesters. Grad students unionize. The sky hasn't fallen. You don't want a union? Don't vote for it or choose a non-union university. Unions aren't an outside entity. They are the workers, put in place by the students doing the very real work on campus.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:18 a.m.
Interesting to me that Chase has no argument with the points you make here.
Bonsai
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:39 p.m.
1. quoting from the article: "The decision to involve the Mackinac Center Legal Foundation came after the regents' vote, when Day reached out to the foundation to see what legal recourse could be made against the decision, she said." If you believe that, I've got a bridge over State Street to sell you. 2. can anyone tell me whether graduate research assistants are unionized at any other university? and how did that work out? has annarbor.com reported this piece of context?
zeeba
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 3:39 a.m.
Chase - So are any other grad assistants other than Day involved? Have any other objected? Because this sure sounds like one idealogue trying to ruin things for everyone else. Unionized graduate research assistants at other universities manage to monitor their experiments and perform other after-hours tasks just fine. I'm sure they'll be able to do so at U-M as well - as you would know, if you'd bothered to do your research instead of jumping into the discussion with preconceived notions before knowing all the facts.
Chase Ingersoll
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:26 a.m.
Voice an opinion and then ask for facts. It was Day who spearheaded the issue and solicited the Mackinaw Center. How do I know that? Because I personally heard the about the issue from Day right after it happened and was one of the people that advised her to contact the Mackinaw Center for representation.
godsbreath64
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:37 p.m.
I was at this morning's "press conference". While Ms. Day stated a clearly appreciable grievance herself, she does appear to be hoodwinked by The Mackinaw Center "Legal Foundation" arguendo. There was no one there to dispute how allegedly exhaustive the hearings were in '81. When I see something couldn't be resolved quicker, my take is the controversy lasted beyond the hearing. If so, it's fruit remains in controversy. If hallowed Mary Sue was ignored by the Regents, what does that say? The answer is they teach constitutional law at Mary Sue's employment. What Patrick Wright, a UM alum' was doing at that point, remains a mystery. To help him along: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 1st Amendment of the US Constitution
godsbreath64
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:53 p.m.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 1st Amendment of the US Constitution I think you'll agree per your comments your difficulty with the American way may not be unresolvable. Your inculcations may pay thy way, but you just show you are not from MI and much worse beholden to the carrot of the counter-republican domestic threat. How does one just ignore the constitutional limitations of government OVERREACH? Admit it your attraction to bigger-than-anything-you-know government, already. Those who do can see they are the problem, not the credible source of anything worthwhile.
Stephen Landes
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:37 p.m.
The Democrat regents banded together in spite of the counsel of the University President to ram through a pro union policy change at a time when public employee unions are under pressure across the country. That sounds like a purely political action to me.
Jay McNally
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:05 p.m.
It's my understanding that the union rules would include restrictions on how many hours could be spent doing research in the lab without incurring overtime and other costs/penalties. A scientist told me that it's hard to demand that the micro-organisms and other critters that biology researchers deal with adapt to a 40-hour work week. Union greed seems to be at the foundation of this scheme by the Regents.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:21 p.m.
"Union greed" seems to be out of place in an organization where no one makes even a middle-class wage. Unionization helps to create a situation in which a student's own dissertation still has some priority when professors make other demands, and it creates a situation in which one doesn't need a trust fund to get higher ed. Trust me, no one goes into academe out of greed, they go to work for the MC and its donors.
David Parker
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:20 p.m.
no greed appropriate. Union gets $1M and provides little.
sh1
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:14 p.m.
I'm not sure the word greed is appropriate to describe paying a worker for the time they spend working beyond the 40-hour week.
Joe Baublis
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6 p.m.
Mrs. Day has the right to obtain an attorney and Mackinac can therefore commence an action on her behalf. Mrs. Day also has the right to rely on the laws established by our State. In 1981 the MERC established for our State the legal fact that graduate research assistants are not employees - they are students - and therefore they cannot unionize. Mrs. Day has the right to rely on this legal principle to protect the relationship that she has with her professors. It should also be noted that research indicated that the union could not provide research assistants with any significant service they did not already have - however - the union WOULD forcibly extract payments from the research assistants whether they agreed to join - or not. Given that Mrs. Day came to the UM for scholastic purposes - and not to oppose union forces - I suggest that she deserves public support. By standing up for her principles despite overwhelming powers of union forces, Mrs. Day is demonstrating exceptional courage and integrity. You should be honored to have her in our State.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:15 a.m.
Right, Joe! The public should stand up and applaud a single citizen-student that thinks it's perfectly okay to take away the rights of all others to vote for unionization. We should clap and c elebrate that she thinks her own personal beliefs supercede those of all others. Yes!! Ummmm. I'm thinking NOT!
cette
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:07 p.m.
Wow, excellent propaganda speech! I don't buy a word of it, but nicely written. Well, let the suit go forward. The Mack meddles again. I'm still really ticked off about them not supporting autism insurance, not only that, posting columns urging senators to stick to their guns and keep saying no to families and kids with autism. The nerve of some people! To say they are in the game for good of a country.
Kafkaland
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.
While I do think that unionization of the GRSAs is a poorly concieved idea for a number of reasons, this legal action appears to be wirhout merit to me. Already now, the University "interferes" in may ways with the student-mentor relationship, usually for the protection of the student. A department may require a graduate student to take certain courses, the Rackham Graduate School has their own set of requirements, Reasearch Administration enforces federal mandates, like effort certification, for GSRAs supported through grants, and if there are problems in the student-mentor relationship, departments and other university resources will get involved. So it's not that a graduate student is accountable only to his or her mentor. The Regents are elected to run the University in the interest of the people of Michigan, that's their conwtitutional duty. And if they think that in the larger picure it is best for the state if GSRAs are given the option to unionize, then that's a policy decision that interfers no more with the student-mentor relationship than other University or departmental policies. I don't know all the intricacies of labor law, but I cannot imagine that allowing graduate students to vote on forming a union is something the regents are prohibited from doing. My advice to Ms. Day and all the other GSRAs who do not think it is worth joining a union is to campaign hard among their fellow GSRAs to vote "NO" when the ballot arrives, and defeat this in a democratic way and not through lawsuits that require you to hop in bed with a rather disreputable advocacy group.
David Parker
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:22 p.m.
$1M to a Union that cannot help Graduate research assistants. In the real world u could reject that false choice.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.
You could reject it here, too; if you are a GSRA then you could vote against it... that is, unless the MC takes away your right to vote on it.
Townie
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:16 p.m.
Am I missing something here or not? The Mackinac Center's position seems to be that graduate students (I was one once...) shouldn't even have the choice to choose? Am I getting that right? What's wrong with a little democracy here; the right to choose (or not)? It's just a simple vote, right? Is voting on a concept a bad idea as far as the MC folks are concerned? Is that concept (democracy basically) a very scary one to the well funded folks at the Mackinac Center? Feel free to chime in MC folks, in real terms without lawyers so we can understand what the huge issue is here that requires lots of lawyers, lawsuits, etc.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.
MC "democracy" means the right to discriminate in hiring practices (see above), and has much more to do with the right to stomp on other people than the right to pursue middle-class happiness. They are indeed against the right to vote on this issue!
zeeba
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
It's worth noting that the Mackinac Center has been leading advocate for "tort reform" designed to prevent people from filing frivolous lawsuits. That would normally be regarded as irony but in this case, it's just sheer hypocrisy.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:03 p.m.
Ms. Day is asking for fewer rights, not more. Unfortunately, in the process she is trying to take rights away from other people, which is not very nice. Even if a union were voted in, she would not be required to join it or to ask for its help. She could still represent herself to her employer. The research assistants should be able to have a free and fair election. They may well decide against unionization, but they should have the right to vote on it! Mary Sue Coleman is the Rick Snyder of this university, an outsider from the business world who wants to run it like a corporation. Her hostility towards the people who make this university run has been a constant for years as she fights against labor, barely tolerates or funds the shrinking presence of humanities departments, wastes huge sums of money on projects which have nothing to do with the betterment of education, and now brings in a thuggish lawyer team from the far right of state politics. Once they have been to Ann Arbor, I'm scared they'll never leave. What's next, outsourcing the faculty positions to China? An official system to auction off A's to the highest bidder? Some things (most things at a university!) cannot be measured in dollars and cents. I hope some other university offers her an even bigger salary and she leaves us in peace. Dear U-M regents, please reconsider the role of professional administrators at this institution. <a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/07/14/new_book_argues_bloated_administration_is_what_ails_higher_education" rel='nofollow'>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/07/14/new_book_argues_bloated_administration_is_what_ails_higher_education</a> As for the Mackinac people, this is the organization that is fighting against legislation to stop discrimination against the unemployed <a href="http://detnews.com/article/20110727/BIZ/107270351/Unemployed-see-bias-in-competition-for-new-jobs" rel='nofollow'>http://detnews.com/article/20110727/BIZ/107270351/Unemployed-see-bias-in-competition-for-new-jobs</a> Do we really want this organization meddling in Ann Arbor affairs? They are mean!
Michigoose
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 8:58 p.m.
Ms. Day does not have to leave the U to avoid joining the union. Even if it were voted in, membership itself would be optional.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:14 p.m.
Stephen: " As it is unions can bulldoze anyone in their way -- like a single grad student." Seems to me that your single grad student is doing exactly what you accuse unions of doing: bulldozing. She doesn't want a union and therefore is willing to file a law suit to preserve her right to not be in one, thereby taking away that same right to unionize from every other GA. If she doesn't want a union, that's her right. However, are you suggesting that her right to not want to be in a union should supercede the rights of those others that do want a union? Or should they all acquiesce to this "single grad student"?
johnnya2
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:23 p.m.
Stephen, So you mean if you vote and it does not go your way, you still live by that election. What a concept. How about we do right to for everything. There was a vote on gay marriage. I think the people who voted to discriminate were wrong. So I get to get married now. I am unhappy with Rick Snyder taxing pension income, I did not want to be part of that. I am going to remove myself from that portion of the rules, I have RIGHT TO NOT HAVE MY PENSION TAXED. If Ms Day does not like the outcome of the vote, she can leave the U, or live with it. The same options I have regarding the state and what it FORCES me to do. Right to work is a joke. It is a right to be treated like crap by your employer. By the way, Florida is a right to work state and see how well their unemployment rate is doing. It is the right wing lie that it is good for employees. Finally, when unions are strongest is when this country had the lowest wage gap between the wealthy and middle class. Less unions means more money for rich to hoarde their money and screw the poor.
Stephen Landes
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:32 p.m.
Sara, Ms. Day is asking that her right to NOT join a union be preserved. my guess is that if this unionization is agreed to she won't have any choice but to join or leave the U. If we had a right to work law in this state her rights to not be a union member would be protected. As it is unions can bulldoze anyone in their way -- like a single grad student.
f4phantomII
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:47 p.m.
To understand this logic, one has to be a grad student. Dr. Coleman is on corporate boards BECAUSE she is the president of the University of Michigan not the other way around. I think there is a serious issue here: Should the MERC's 1981 decision stand? Your post is rife with hyperbole and distortions that make my hair hurt. I can't wait to go on vacation next week.
JD
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:47 p.m.
Taking rights away from other people? Sara, the problem here that hasn't been addressed is that it is not yet clear who will be able to vote in the decision to unionize. While I'm not sure how it works in other departments, in the sciences we are not always either a GSI or a GRSA. It's possible to be a GRSA for only a few months while the rest of the time being supported by various fellowships. While I may wish to vote against unionization, I will likely be unable to because I am not currently a GSRA (but likely will be when my fellowship ends). Additionally, many first year grad students just arriving on campus will also not be able to vote on this issue because they will not be GRSAs even though the outcome WILL most certainly affect them later on. Therefore, this is not the simple "free and fair election" you are making it out to be.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:30 p.m.
She is also a corporate board member with plenty of allegiances outside of U-M and in conflict with the university's interests. For example, she has been supportive of the governor's cuts to U-M funding. It is not her job to do so and demonstrates a conflict of interest.
alan
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.
Sara- Dr. Coleman is not an outsider from business. She has 20 years of faculty experience in Chemistry followed by administrative positions at UNC and Iowa before coming to U of M. She is an academic.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:09 p.m.
Chase, of course we could argue till the cows come home about whether the UAW has done a good job of protecting its members from the car companies. But whatever you think about big unions, the GEO is small and democratic. And if it fails to serve those it claims to represent, they will be able to vote it out.
gsorter
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:54 p.m.
Do we really want this organization meddling in Ann Arbor affairs? YES
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
The Unions in this country started as a justifiable cause. Then they became big business. Now they are just a racket to manipulate labor markets and maintain the status quo for the benefit of those people who run the unions.
tom swift jr.
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.
The Mackinac Center's involvement in this is inappropriate, they have no standing. They are a splinter, extremist group that should have no power in how we govern.
timjbd
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 3:51 p.m.
It is HIGHLY unlikely that this student "reached out" to the Mackinac Center. They went trolling for someone to bring action. They see ANY advances in union membership as something that must be stopped at all costs. The Mackinac Center is wholly funded by the infamous Koch Brothers and Walmart. Read more about it here: <a href="http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/michigan-snyder-mackinac-center" rel='nofollow'>http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/michigan-snyder-mackinac-center</a>
a2 Brute?
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:53 p.m.
who is "we"? and why does "we" have the power to govern?
f4phantomII
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:08 p.m.
A splinter, extremist group? That's one of the most ignorant things I've read on these pages since annarbor.com began. "The decision to involve the Mackinac Center Legal Foundation came after the regents' vote, when Day reached out to the foundation..." That's why they have standing. "...should have no power in how we govern." What does that even mean?
Steve
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:32 p.m.
Just like BAMN in other words.
C. M. Novess III KGCTJ
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:24 p.m.
You can say that unionization would not affect a student/research assistant adversely. Indeed, it might even produce a positive effect. However, in Michigan, there is no "right to unionize". A "right to unionize" implies a right to NOT join a union. In Michigan, if there is a union you have to pay it to work there. Give these students a choice and I applaud you. Otherwise, get off their backs!
alan
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
You seem passionate Chase but I have no idea what your position is or what facts and ideology you refer to. I do know that when I was a graduate student (in the sciences) the last thing that I wanted was unionization because I was a student, not an employee, and I didn't want my relationship with my adviser compromised in any way. That said, the sciences usually had it pretty good compared to the humanities and social sciences so others may feel differently. I don't like the idea of not being able to choose membership or not.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:29 p.m.
Chase, the other side did not provide much info here because the article is about the MC's press conference and focuses on what case the MC is going to make. Doubtful that much of the other side was invited to discuss it with them.
zeeba
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:11 p.m.
You know, Chase, you would be a lot more convincing if you'd bothered to spend just a bit of time explaining just what additional information you've been able to turn up that supports the plaintiff's position. As it is, you've written a number of lengthy posts berating others for intellectual laziness, without putting forward much effort yourself.
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:22 p.m.
My primary position is that people spend more than 30 seconds looking at the issue or defaulting to an authority that they believe is in line with their ideology. Further, I think the other important principal is that those who have a stake and "rights" involved be given foremost consideration in such a decision and that anyone who might comment or influence that decision due their best to support a full vetting of the facts. Presently, what I see is one side providing detailed facts and reasoned justification for their position as they point to the consequences of the decision, even while the other side does fails to respond to the issues that are raised. I also see it as un-rebutted that one side is going to benefit financially (millions) by acquiring additional members, even while they are not specifying what benefit the members are actually going to receive for their membership.
ADK
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:26 p.m.
It's fine that the Mackinac Center is challenging this. Does organizing graduate research assistants actually compromise students' relationships with their professors and mentors? I don't think so, and many many people continue to tell us that unionizing would not disrupt the work and relationships that graduate researchers rely on, despite the reports and projections of university administration. But a careful review by the Commission should help to clarify things. It's the oldest trick in the book to claim that unionizing will actually lessen or restrict the rights of and conditions for workers, but that's usually just not the case. A hearing and investigation will help to determine if indeed proposed, union-supported policies would interfere with students' educations, or if these claims are simply anti-union scare tactics.
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 7:01 p.m.
Plubius, How much education does it you appear to missed out of? Most who attended school can recite the first amendment to the US Constitution. Just read it slow "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE , and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Try saving your signature ignoratio elenchi for your own states issues. Thank you in advance.
Plubius
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.
Short answer: yes ADK was obviously never a graduate research assistant.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:23 p.m.
blah, blah. I've read the article and your link. But you can still pretend I didn't, if it makes you feel better about people losing the right to vote on union representation. This young lady is not content with voting "no," she has to make sure no one can vote either way. Really democratic.
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:16 p.m.
Ah, another comment without first having completely read the readily available information, much less any effort to understand the context and the implications of either the for or against.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:10 p.m.
The student has the right to vote against unionization, but she wants to prevent anyone from being able to vote on it.
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:02 p.m.
This is precisely the sort of opinion where one must ask if the person writing such bothered to read the article and link to more detailed facts including the statements by the Graduate Student explaining exactly how union rules would interfere with her research, or is her testimonial simply being ignored because it contradicts the posters ideology.
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.
Here is the link to additional information on the article: <a href="http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/15467" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/15467</a>
godsbreath64
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:18 a.m.
That is the puppy, right there in his own mess. There is your knowledge. They pick your leaders, your updated constitution and whatever else before you are to shut up and get your production finished.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
Love how they don't have a comment thread on their blog.
Chase Ingersoll
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
Please read the article in full before commenting. Many of the people who comment here refuse to let facts get in the way of their ideology.
Boo Radley
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.
There are a lot of claims made in the article. I don't know that I would necessarily accept them as "facts".
John B.
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:36 p.m.
Many of the people who comment here make too many babies, so I would ask them to please stop doing that as well.
David Paris
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:50 p.m.
Thanks for posting this Chase, you're obviously not new to aa.com!
Forever27
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:44 p.m.
funny, you posted this before anybody actually commented. Perhaps it is you that starts first from ideology and ignores fact. Don't assume that is the case for everyone else.