Kellie Woodhouse

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 4:34 a.m.

Indeed. You are right.

huh7891

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 12:17 a.m.

Dexter 's boss! Mill Creek is outstanding!

say it plain

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 11:48 p.m.

I would *love* to see what the rates of applying would be like if students at Community had to stay in their building. I'd guess they'd drop by half.

dsponini

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 5:16 p.m.

Why? According to the GOP ALL public schools are failures and we should invest in charter schools

Sandy Castle

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 8:01 p.m.

Right on!

Sandy Castle

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 8:02 p.m.

I'm in the Ypsilanti School district and am very grateful for the wealth of great educational offerings in Washtenaw County. Congratulations to Saline!

Bulldog5

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 7 p.m.

No Kidding. We are spoiled to no end here in the Ann Arbor area.

John of Saline

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 6:52 p.m.

Hey, they have Hamburger University and everything.

jcj

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:30 p.m.

Fair enough!

YpsiGreen

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 2:17 p.m.

Let's be equitable here: Don't forget that some go to work at Wendy's and Taco Bell.

Judy

Thu, May 9, 2013 : 3:31 p.m.

As Simple Sally points out: Individual effort counts, not "diversity" If parents do not care about there "own" kids how is "diversity" going to make a different?

JRW

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 2:59 a.m.

@Thoughtful, you are likely correct about the attendance scams going on at Skyline and Pioneer. I know about Huron since my kids went there. These attendance scams are draining the limited resources of our schools with already overcrowded classrooms, not to mention the AA taxpayers who are paying very high property taxes and millages to support the schools. If AAPS cared, they would put effort into verifying these attendance scammers. But they like the state dollars based on headcount.

Thoughtful

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 1:53 a.m.

JRW, sorry to say, but faking addresses happens at Skyline and Pioneer as well. I think they have to get caught by an athletic director, if that ever happens. No one cares enough to look. Out of county students fake addresses to get into Skyline, and kids suddenly "move" to get into Pioneer.

JRW

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.

Huron needs to get a grip on the attendance boundaries. Many students are sneaking into the district and supposedly living with "relatives" just inside the boundary lines of Huron HS. No one is verifying that these students actually live with these supposed cousins and uncles. No one verifies that they are actually relatives of the students. These students fail in other districts, flock to Huron, scam the attendance system and AAPS gets the state dollars for the headcount. However, these students are not taking the AP classes.

EyeHeartA2

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 6:35 p.m.

By the way, bubba and tano, if you have an issue with the achievement gap maybe you can take it up with the school board. They seem to think there is one even if you don't. I guess they needed to take your class as well. Please let us all know the next time you teach it. http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-outlines-plan-to-eliminate-achievement-gap-among-poor-minority-students/

EyeHeartA2

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 6:32 p.m.

@bubba; I didn't draw any conclusions. You did. You drew a conclusion bases of raw data that I posted. You would fail my imaginary logic class as fast as I would fail your imaginary statics class. (Ain't the internet grand, "teacher"? You can be whoever you want to be.)

Bubbap

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:52 p.m.

heartattack You really need to sit in on a statistics class if you are gonna post data and then try to make sense of it to the public. The word that is most important here is sample size. A sample size of 3 is about as useful in drawing conclusions as 2 left feet are to walking. Trying to compare three schools based on reduced lunch or minority enrollment is pointless. If you are gonna make these comparisons, take 30 minutes and look at all of the schools on that list from Michigan and compare them. I know your conclusions will change because there are diverse schools on that list (like East Lansing) that ruin your assumed model. Just sayin... a student in my class who used your model would have failed due to sample size, its that important

Tano

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:52 p.m.

Eyeheart, I like data just fine. I don't like people who distort data. I did look at the data for Pioneer and Skyline and they are as I alluded to in my comment. Now that you know that, please tell us what trends you see in all of the data. How has your view of the world changed now that you realize that schools with more poor and minority students sometimes do better than schools with fewer?

EyeHeartA2

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:23 p.m.

@cfsunlet; I would love to answer you, and tried, but the censors deleted my post even though it was quite reasonable. Sorry. You will need to draw your own conclusions and have to think for yourself on this one I guess.

EyeHeartA2

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:18 p.m.

@Tano; I didn't bother to look at any other schools, you go ahead and knock yourself out if you like. I picked the three I picked since they were the top three schools in Ann Arbor and were part of the discussion above. If you don' t like it, post your own data, I showed you where it came from BTW, I can't claim I did anything for any reason, since the censors at AA.commie saw fit to delete my response. Sorry you don't like data.

Tano

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.

@Eyeheart You claim to be simply reporting raw data, and question the motives of those who challange you. But in fact you are presenting a distorted view of the raw data by selectively editing the data. Why no data for Skyline? Could it be because Skyline has a lower minority population, a lower percentage of economically disadvantaged kids, and yet a lower ranking as well? In other words, it does not fit with the trend that you are trying to artificially impose on the data. Where is the data for Pioneer? Did you exclude it because Pioneer also has a lower minority population and fewer economically disadvantaged kids than say, Huron, but does worse in the ratings? If you presented all the data honestly, what trends would emerge, if any?

A Voice of Reason

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 3:39 p.m.

It is a free and reduced lunch issue not race. Ann Arbor has high number of free and reduced lunch kids that are African American, so it looks like a race issue. Look at Community, only 10% free and reduced lunch while Huron is 23%. Look at other districts with high free and reduced lunch kids and their numbers will not be great.

Silly Sally

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 2:04 p.m.

Why does being "diverse" make an area more perfect? With that thought process, you could move more Detroit residents into Saline and improve it! No! You need to stop looking at a groups race and begin looking at individuals and a cultures. There are mostly Asian schools that would not be better academically if they were more "diverse". There is a reason why some major universities are now mostly Asian and not mostly of another group.Individual effort counts, not "diversity"

cfsunlet

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 1:30 p.m.

so what is your point? Saline is a public school, anyone can move to Saline and those who do so will get the same advantages. In fact, the cost of housing is lower than in Ann Arbor and most other costs are the same, so family income shouldn't be an issue. Saline is a great bargain if you look at the value of the education received compared to the cost of living. This isn't a race issue...Saline schools set high standards and they know what it takes to get students to meet those standards. They have strong extracurricular offerings which encourages most students to participate in non-academic opportunities and creates a stronger sense of community throughout. Parents care about their children's success and have strong educationally-centered values. People move to Saline because they are drawn to the community, regardless of political leanings, racial identity or income level. Saline isn't perfect, it could be more diverse, but if people move to Saline, they will receive the same benefits as those who already live here.

smokeblwr

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 12:59 p.m.

I think you are going to get deleted for pointing this out. Politically incorrect!!!

CalmDown

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 10:23 p.m.

Nor do they teach them kids to 'stay offa my lawn!'

jcj

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 1:34 p.m.

That is where it HAS to start for sure. But that is not the end.

proudtobeme

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.

you think it's the schools job to teach common sense? How about starting with the parents?

djacks24

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 6:48 p.m.

Comments here are spot on. I graduated from Saline 25 years ago and that's how it was then. I think back then there were only a handful of minority students in the entire high school. I know by now it is many more than that. But still, minority or not, the majority of students are of a pretty solid family structure and are very economically stable. Very skewed survey indeed...

CLX

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 3:51 p.m.

My thought exactly. I have no idea if this is true, but my perception of Saline is that of a very homogeneous, upper-middle class suburb, in which case the graduation and college rates should not be surprising. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that schools like Saline and Community have kids with much greater resources on average than those who attend elsewhere.

say it plain

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 11:45 p.m.

Exactly @Freighttrain. Community kids should be required to *stay in their building*. Their arguments for continuing to exist aren't valid, really, because so many of their students get a good portion of their educations at the bigger schools. Then, when they show us how wonderfully their students do on the *traditional* measures of school goodness, it's really not about their "special sauce". Unless you count getting to do whatever you want and being far more supported while doing it than the kids in the other schools "special sauce". We'd get a better education for everyone in AAPS if Community students were required to stay in their buildings, because those families who really need/want what Community does (as opposed to what is available anywhere in AAPS) would be better served, and those who want their kids to take APs and varsity sports would be forced to come to terms with what's less than desirable about the other schools and use their oddly feared loud voices to advocate for change in those places, where the majority of kids in AAPS end up!

Freight Train

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 5:21 p.m.

Many community students take APs at Huron, Pioneer or Skyline. The work of these schools gets credited to Community.

Billy

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 12:19 p.m.

If you understood statistics.....the demographics are identical. If anything it STILL makes community a better school because those students still CHOSE to attend there because they had to CHOOSE to be in the lottery.

Ivor Ivorsen

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 11:48 a.m.

Community HS: lottery. Saline HS: no lottery; all children in community attend.

Tim Hornton

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 12:06 a.m.

"Performing poems in front of the student body" good grief!

Chester Drawers

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 10:05 p.m.

ms24, You can find the AP scores on the School Profiles for Pioneer and Huron. Not sure if Skyline has a profile.

ms24

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 6:41 p.m.

Let's see the scores on the AP tests taken. Anybody know where that data would be? I would bet that the Ann Arbor kids who do take the APs have consistently scored higher especially from Huron and Pioneer. Any student can sign up for the classes. Any student can sit for the exam. Community kids can go to another school to take an AP class there. Even if you can't afford to pay the entrance amount I think there is a fee waiver application. Also, if you adjust the data to reflect the same diversity distributions that Saline has, you would see higher ACT scores for all the Ann Arbor schools.

say it plain

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 4:36 p.m.

Ooh, lol, I'd *love* for you to share your evidence about how "most competitive colleges are moving away from APs"...sure, as @AMOC points out, they aren't awarding credit for it, but that's revenue and quality control, not about how they tend to judge applicants. The whole 'rankings' scene is a scam, but Community plays that game just like the other schools, and it's only a problem for the advocates when they don't look so great lol... Pick a perspective, it's a better 'look': either be truly alternative and care not about ACT scores and "competitive" college admissions, but individuals and their education, or care about numbers, which tends to be the game there these days it seems.

Ricardo Queso

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 2:36 p.m.

I hope I read a fair amount of sarcasm in your last paragraph. If not, your strategy will produce few engineers, scientists, and physicians and a large number of community organizers.

AMOC

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 11:43 a.m.

Floyd - IB doesn't award credit by examination, only by completing an accredited program and submitting a portfolio of work to independent reviewers. The program is very respected by colleges and universities world-wide. It's the closest thing in US public schools to "meets international educational standards" for college-prep programs, but it is very heavy in the liberal arts. As for AP - there are and have been public schools that call their course offerings "advanced" or AP or "honors" without actually providing the coverage or rigor colleges expect, and without encouraging or requiring students to take the standardized tests. Colleges are rightly suspicious, in particular of granting credit for these courses without seeing the highest scores on a ninon-grade-inflated measure of what the student knows. And the colleges also want to protect their revenue streams, rather than allow students to get their degree faster and cheaper.

Bubbap

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 3:47 p.m.

I cant be 100% sure as I only can read the information provided but as a statistics teacher I interpret this as 89% of students graduate high school and of those students graduating, 91% go to college. So 9% of those students who graduate decide to pursue their careers instead of going to college. I hope this helps!

Silly Sally

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.

This means that each kid who leaves and goes on to college early will hurt the graduation stats of each high school. They look like losers on paper when in truth they are the opposite. They should not count against the school.

Billy

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 12:25 p.m.

"I personally know three kids who accepted invitations to enroll in college early and just kept going." I was taking college classes my junior year because I could. Because of such, I had enough credits to graduate after only one semester my senior year.

AMOC

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 11:35 a.m.

Jim- You asked "89 percent graduation rate, with 91 percent going to college " How can this be? Do a lot of drop-outs make use of GEDs? Nope. It's the other way around. A few students are sufficiently advanced that they start their career or college degrees before having fulfilled all the graduation requirements, and never really see the point of going back for that half-credit in gym, or health, or even US History. The rules surrounding GEDs say that young people can't take the exam until their normal age high school cohort would have graduated. I believe this state policy was introduced primarily to protect the public schools from losing the money and prestige these highly capable students bring them. I personally know three kids who accepted invitations to enroll in college early and just kept going.

Paula Gardner

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 11:33 a.m.

Yes, those schools were not on the list. And it's 91 percent of the graduates going on to college. I find the differences interesting, too.

missmisery

Tue, May 7, 2013 : 11:07 a.m.

Best guess - not in the top 2000 ranked in this study.

Angry Moderate

Wed, May 8, 2013 : 4:39 p.m.

Actually it's pretty impressive that they placed in the rankings when their school doesn't offer AP or IB courses.