YpsiLivin

Sun, Nov 15, 2009 : 5:45 p.m.

Tom Bower, State law CAPS charter school funding. There WILL BE NO ADDITIONAL MONEY for private entities to run publicly funded schools. Charter school management companies were well aware of the statutory funding limits when they accepted their charters.

DagnyJ

Sun, Nov 15, 2009 : 7:53 a.m.

Below is a link to stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics about employee benefits. The first is a recent comparison of job types and access and cost of health insurance. Also life insurance. You'll note that education employers have more access to and lower premiums. http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ebs/sp/ebnr0015.pdf In otehr tables on the main site, you can see that 89 percent of teachers have defined benefit retirements plans (ie. pensions) while only 21 percent of private industry employees have them. You have to poke around the site to find the more detailed information, but it's worth doing. http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ebs/benefits/2009/benefits_retirement.htm

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 15, 2009 : 3:31 a.m.

Toomuchtodo said, I tried to find corresponding data on Salary.com, and was not able to find it. Please, do provide the link(s). I think it is important to know the facts about salaries. I apologize for not including the links, but, as I said, theyre really long. For space purposes Ill include only the secretary link, I think people can navigate to the rest on Salary.com (you have to click on the "benefits" tab). http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?op=salswz_psr&jobfamilycode=2&txtKeyword=secretary&hdOmniNarrowDesc=Administrative%2C+Support%2C+and+Clerical&hdZipCode=48176&hdOmniTotalJobsFound=15&pagefrom=selectjob&hdJobCategory=OF01&hdGeoLocation=Saline%2C+MI+48176&countertype=0&totaljoblistnum=15&joblevelcode=3&hdCurrentPage=1&hdNarrowDesc=Administrative%2C+Support%2C+and+Clerical&hdLocationOption=0&hdViewAllRecords=0&hdJobTitle=Executive+Assistant&hdSearchByOption=0&hdKeyword=secretary&rdbSearchByOption=0&hdStateMetro=209&jobcounter=1&hdSortBy=0&hdJobCode=OF13000004&hdJSBoolDisplayAdvertisement=&hdAjaxKeyword=secretary&hdAjaxKeywordWithOR=%23secretary%23&hdAjaxDisplaySection1=1&hdAjaxDisplaySection2=0 Its worth noting that theyre not saying the average salary is 76k but that the average overall worth of their compensation and benefits is worth 76k. Look, I dont review benefit packages for a living, but Salary.com seems like an informed neutral site to gain the information. Lots of people have been throwing around facts in this debate about how fat teachers compensation is, or how underserved the entire public sector is, and Im just saying that my initial inquiry into the subject didnt bear that out. I there are a number of well informed people on this site (minus a few knuckleheads -=) and I would love to hear more facts supporting the other side, but this is what I came up with when I tried to put all of the name calling aside and just sought out the facts. There are a few other condemnations of teacher benefits which I also didnt follow the logic on. I imagine every profession has benefits that are unique to its situation. Some offer stock options. Some offer matching 401k. Some offer traveling perks. To contend that teachers are over compensated just because they are offered a particular compensation that is not exactly the same compensation as the one youre offered doesnt make sense to me. I trust this Salary.com site to give a fair, unbiased analysis of the benefits, and by their account teachers are compensated much less than the average person with a masters degree.

Albert M. Berriz

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 11:45 p.m.

Dear Tom, Please feel free to contact me directly at aberriz@mckinley.com, as I would love to hear first hand from you your views and ideas regarding Charter Schools. Clearly, one of the major inequities that surfaced during the recent millage discussions was that these schools would not receive funding from the millage effort. There are currently 187 charter schools operating in Michigan, and the number of students in charter schools has grown consistently to 64,510. That's about 3 percent of all K-12 students in the state. Those numbers speak for themselves. I welcome the opportunity to listen and learn from you, and I thank you in advance for the opportunity to have a dialogue with you on this important aspect of the solution. Warmest Regards, Albert M. Berriz Citizens for a Responsible Washtenaw www.a2crw.org

toomuchtodo

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 11:21 p.m.

To Kathy Griswold and Albert Berriz: Thank you for putting yourself in the cross-hairs on this school funding issue. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to go against the "status quo" in a community such as Ann Arbor, where education is so highly valued. You are both very brave. Although I realize that it may discount my viewpoints for some, I am simply not willing at this time to use my real name on this forum because I believe it could potentially jeopardize the collaborative relationship that I have with most of my children's teachers (although we are not in Ann Arbor- the internet world is smaller than it seems!). As a parent, and having little real control over these issues one way or the other, I cannot see where it would serve any purpose to publicly put myself in such an adversarial position. But kudos to those who are all "out" there!

Tom Bower

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 10:06 p.m.

Responding to Kathy Griswold (A2CRSS) and Albert Berriz (Citizens for Responsible Washtenaw) Are you and your organizations willing to include public school academies and their students in your reform efforts?

Albert M. Berriz

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 9:30 p.m.

Dear Susan; Thank you very much for allowing me the opportunity to address the malicious rumor that surfaced during the campaign regarding the use of a Washington DC PR firm and other unfortunate comments. The materials where put together locally by myself and two wonderful ladies that are very well known to local non-profit community. No DC PR firm, just three local Washtenaw County citizens working hard to do the right thing. These wonderful ladies and I designed and worked together to create the marketing materials for the United Way Annual Campaign when I was Co-Chair, the capital campaign materials for the Red Cross and Neutral Zone when I was Capital Campaign Chair for those efforts, and many other non-profit efforts we have undertaken in the community as well over the years. We look forward to hearing from you very soon, and hope to meet with you so you can get to know our group, and understand better who we are. My email is aberriz@mckinley.com, I look forward to hearing from you soon, and remain at your service on this matter. I also think its very important that we now come together as a community (county) and work towards a positive outcome in this most critical matter. We need everyone's collective energy, passion and best thinking! We may disagree on how to get there, but we all want the best things for our kids, grandkids and our schools. I also think its important that the business community play a meaningful role in the process, and hopefully it can add significant value to the outcome. I fully recognize that schools have far more diverse and complex constituencies to account to than I do in my privately held business, but what's true is that the business community can make a meaningful difference in matters relating to financial stewardship and best business practices as applied to our schools. We remain prepared to roll up our sleeves in the days, weeks and months ahead, and we commit to be a positive, skillful and caring force in the process and outcome. Thanks again for the opportunity to address the issues you raised in your email. Warmest Regards, Albert M. Berriz Citizens for a Responsible Washtenaw

sh1

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 11:27 a.m.

I would like evidence for the quote below. It's also important to note that, though AA teachers are allowed to carry over unused sick days, in the end there is no compensation for them at retirement. "The average white collar job does not provide a pension, the average white collar job does not provide sick days (let alone allow the employee to carry over from year to year sick days like teachers get). The average white collar job does not provide health care after retirement. The average white collar job does not allow an employee to retire at the age of 55 and then still have health benefits."

toomuchtodo

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 10:37 a.m.

TO "We" not "Them": Those are average salary and benefits for jobs in Ann Arbor? The average secretary earns nearly 76K a year? I find that very strange, given the median annual earnings of executive secretaries and administrative assistants nationwide was $37,240 in May 2006. http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos151.htm#earnings I tried to find corresponding data on Salary.com, and was not able to find it. Please, do provide the link(s). I think it is important to know the facts about salaries. I do not doubt that math and science teachers are not paid (salary-wise, NOT benefits) as much as they could earn in private industry- perhaps a merit pay system (such as universities and colleges have already use) would allow greater fairness in compensation for teachers.

stunhsif

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 8:04 a.m.

Steve, You could not be more wrong when you state that "teachers ( public employees) compensation packages are in line with the average white collar job. The average white collar job does not provide a pension, the average white collar job does not provide sick days ( let alone allow the employee to carry over from year to year sick days like teachers get). The average white collar job does not provide health care after retirement. The average white collar job does not allow an employee to retire at the age of 55 and then still have health benefits. Teacher pay should be cut at least 5% in the short term, but in the long term what needs to be cut are the healthcare and benefit packages which are no longer sustainable. Contracts must and will be opened with the teachers unions, that I am very sure of. I really am tired of teachers saying they really don't make much money. Factor in at most a 10 month work schedule and someone making 75 grand is really making 90 grand based on 12 months working in the private sector. Now add in the fat cat benefits and that 75 grand is really costing the taxpayer around 100 grand per year. Answer this question Steve. Why does a teacher need and get in some school districts 12 sick days a year when they only work 9 months? Is that reasonable? If I get sick and take a day off, I have to use a vacation day to get paid( I get three weeks a year--been at my job for 11 years). Otherwise, the day is without pay. As I stated in my last email, you just don't get it. Years ago, white collar employees had pensions and some of the benefits teachers still have. That is no longer true, and with the pay cuts taken in the private sector, white collar, college educated folks, even with Master Degrees make no more and even less than teachers.

"We" not "Them"

Sat, Nov 14, 2009 : 6:20 a.m.

To Mr. Bishop, I feel empathy for your personal financial situation but such vitriol towards teacher compensation may not match all the facts. With whom in the public sector would you like teachers to get their salaries in line with? A quick check on Salary.com summarized average salary and benefits in the Ann Arbor area as follows: (sorry for the lack of a link, but the URL was 8 lines long) Patrol Officer - $75,589 Secretary $75, 906 Public School Teacher $76,420 Electrical Engineer - $88,646 Salary.com also states that 47% of teachers have masters degrees. Thats more than double any of the aforementioned professions. Teacher salaries and benefits, when taken in their entirety, appear to be in line with most private sector professions. When compared to professions that have equal education levels, teacher salaries are significantly less than average. Everyone is suffering in this economy, and there are no shortage of those who have horror stories to tell. Portraying teachers as fat cats whose compensation is out of line with the average white collar job is just not supported by all of the facts.

stunhsif

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 8:04 p.m.

To Steve Norton, My name is Carter Bishop. People complain about no one showing their name so I will. You need to come back down from outer space and actually see what is going on here my friend! The lack of oxygen you are breathing up in the stratosphere is affecting your thinking. Quoting you, "Michigan's economy is in shambles and will not recover anytime soon, does that mean we should ask public school teachers to take pay cuts". Are we supposed to take you seriously? I am a perfect example of a "victim" of the Michigan and national economy. My pay was cut 10% this year on top of not getting a raise since 2005. My company no longer contributes to my 401K, they have doubled my weekly health care costs from 40 to 80 dollars a week and doubled my in network deductible from 750 to 1500 dollars. Adding all this up means I have taken a 20% paycut since 2005. Of course one might say just go get another job but living in Michigan where the heck am I going to get another job. I don't have a defined pension benefit, I will have no health care after I retire ( that will happen the day I die), I don't get any sick days, and I work 10 hours a day 5 days a week. I have been with my company for 11 years and just got 3 weeks vacation after 10 years. You folks ( state public employees ) need to realize that we taxpayers are your boss. We can and will determine moving forward that it is not fair and not reasonable that there is this crazy disparity in benefits. To answer your question, should teachers have to take pay cuts. That won't be necessary as long as we are able to make reasonable changes to your pension and healthcare benefits so what you folks get matches what the private sector now is living with!!!

Kathy Griswold

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 7:54 p.m.

To Susan, I do not know whether to feel neglected or grateful for your comment. Maybe I should just stay quiet and let you focus on the guys. I was co-chair of the Citizens for Responsible School Spending (A2CRSS) group with Ted Annis and I am on the executive committee of the new Coalition for Responsible Schools for All Students www.A2CRSS.org. Also, I am on the Executive Committee of the Washtenaw County Democratic Party and have served for many years as a Democratic precinct delegate. The opposition to the millage was multi-partisan from liberal Democrats to conservative Republicans, with a few Libertarians and Campaign for Liberty supporters. A very diverse group of community members agreed that the existing public school funding and spending models are not sustainable. We are now beginning to work on needed reforms at the state and local level. Please join us in this effort. I am not aware of any Washington. D. C. ad agency. The Two Mills is Too Much slogan is based on the old B is Bad campaign against the expansion of the Leslie Science Center. Much of our campaign was modeled after successful strategies in the Obama campaign. While I respect Senator McCain, I saw nothing in his campaign to emulate. I expect David Jesse will report on the spending for all the groups in early December, after the final filing deadline. A2CRSS is not required to file a financial report because we spent less than $1,000, but in the spirit of greater transparency, we will file a report.

Kathy Griswold

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 7 p.m.

Everyone is welcome to continue this discussion at a community forum on Sunday evening and Brit Satchwell and Steve Norton, or another leader of the Millage Committee, are welcome to join the agenda. Press Release: Coalition for Responsible Schools for All Students Website: www.A2CRSS.org Date: November 12, 2009 Contact: Kathy Griswold E-mail: Griswoldkj@aol.com or info@A2CRSS.org The Coalition for Responsible Schools for All Students (A2CRSS) will hold its first community forum on Sunday, November 15, from 6 - 8 PM at the Ann Arbor Community Center, 625 N. Main Street. (The Community Center is on the west side of the street about six blocks north of Huron Street. There is free parking to the north of the building.) All members of the community are encouraged to attend and join the Coalition in working to achieve a quality education for all students by making efficient use of public funds through innovation and collaboration. Agenda Topics The Coalition, who we are, what we hope to accomplish The Obama administrations newly released rules for the Race to the Top program The latest information on school funding from Lansing The former state superintendent of schools, Tom Watkins recent letter to the editor and his 2004 report on sustainability A recap of the election results The local situation The future for local schools Q and A ***************** The Coalition for Responsible Schools for All Students (A2CRSS) is a PAC registered in Washtenaw County with the mission of achieving a quality education for all students by making efficient use of public funds through innovation and collaboration.

sbbuilder

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 4:46 p.m.

Even worse than comparing Michigan to other states in terms of spending per pupil, I would posit a couple more prescient statistics. The US is second (behind Switzerland)in per amount spent per pupil, yet we rank 29th worldwide in subjects such as science. And the trend is worsening at an increasing rate. We can't continue to compare ourselves at a local or even national level. The rest of the world is going to suck our doors off as they blow by us educationally. The problem is much bigger than Washtenaw County, or even Michigan. I believe we need a much better bang for our buck, because, as I see it, we're almost a generation behind the rest of the world. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/13/national/main838207_page2.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1205/p02s01-usgn.html

susan

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 2:10 p.m.

Now that the millage was voted down I would like to see the 2 heads of the opposition, Mr. Berriz and Mr. Anis put their money where there mouths are! Its my understanding that they paid a powerful ad agency out of Washington DC to run the opposition against the millage. It is also my understanding that it is part of a bigger plan to sweep the election next year and have all Republicans in power in Lansing. I hope thats not true. We will really be in trouble then! I would love the news to do more investigative journalism and expose some of this stuff!!!

toomuchtodo

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 1:51 p.m.

Additionally, it is interesting to note that many states had flat, or declining, trendlines for teacher salaries over the last few years: http://sourcebook.governing.com/subtopicresults.jsp?syr=14&eyr=17&cha=n&mrtype=2&ctype=4&ind=595&x=25&y=7

toomuchtodo

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 1:40 p.m.

Responding to Steve Norton: Although I cannot find data for the last 10 years, let's assume that spending on K-12 education in Michigan has gone done over the last 10 years as a percentage of personal income... When that statement is made in a vacuum, void of any context, it sound horrible. But, when Michigan is compared to other states, this decline STILL leaves our K-12 education funding ranked in 2nd place nationwide (2006) as a percentage of personal income: 2004: Michigan ranked 2nd nationwide, with 7.3% personal income spent on State & Local K-12 Education 2005: Michigan ranked 3rd nationwide, with 5.7% personal income spent on State Local & K-12 Education 2006: Michigan ranked 2nd nationwide, with 5.9% personal income spent on State Local & K-12 Education From: http://sourcebook.governing.com/topicresults.jsp?yr=16&mrtype=2&sort=633%3A&ctype=1&sub=151&x=64&y=6, Data sources: U.S. Census Bureau, Public Education Finances Report Regarding teacher salaries, Michigan teachers being ranked so high in salaries compared to other states is something I consider very relevant, especially because the cost living is much less here than many higher ranking states (CA and east coast states). And, the teacher salary trend in Michigan has been rising steadily over the past few years despite the economy. http://sourcebook.governing.com/subtopicresults.jsp?yr=17&ind=595&cha=&sort=n&mrtype=custom&ctype=4 Anecdotally, TeacherPortal considers Michigan the 4th friendliest state for teachers (see http://teacherportal.com/salary/Michigan-teacher-salary). Although I value the impact and importance of teachers, and think many should be paid MORE than they currently are, I just simply don't think our state can afford it anymore. The Detroit News special report on the teacher pension costs: http://www.detnews.com/article/20071101/SPECIAL01/71120003/Interactive--Teacher-pension-legacy-costs/ has informed my opinion on why it should be reformed. I realize that this is a state-level program, but without changes, I truly feel like we're just throwing good money after bad.

A2CarGuy

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 12:25 p.m.

So Michigan teachers' salaries are 11th in the nation, but Michigan's economy is now one of the worst in the nation and can be expected to be for the foreseeable future? I'm not sure that's a statistic that supports the "protect teachers from the state's economy" argument. How about we look at what teachers (and any state-funded employees) are making in Alabama and other states that house the non-union workforces our auto industry is now trying to match. Look at Mexico for that matter. For all the complaints about how UAW auto workers (both Big Three and suppliers) were overpaid, those wages were pumped back into the Michigan economy through sales taxes and property taxes. Those auto workers' wages are now closer to those in the non-union southern auto plants and they will continue to go down as attrition replaces more senior workers with much lower-paid new workers. So if you want to know what kind of state employee compensation we'll be able to afford in a few years, check out the communities around those rural southern auto plants.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 10:37 a.m.

@toomuchtodo, I have to disagree with some of your "facts": Average Michigan teacher salaries are at number 11 nation-wide - not bad, but not out of the park, either. Total spending on K-12 education as a proportion of state personal income has been declining over the last 10 years. In other words, even this recession, we are spending less of our income on education than we were in good times ten years ago. The public school employee pension system (which also covers charter teachers, local library and community college employees, among others) is completely under the control of the state legislature. As such, while I am not a lawyer, I suspect they cannot change the plan for people already in the system because of the Constitutional prohibition of "ex post facto" laws. It may well be that MPSERS needs to be restructured, and a shift to a defined contribution model will require a large amount of money for 15 to 20 years to cover the transition. But the 2007 changes were not "minor," as someone argued. They have the prospect of offering huge savings - but not for at least 10 years. (See that Senate Fiscal Agency analysis I posted a link to earlier.) So now we are down to the fact that Michigan's economy is a shambles and will not be recovering anytime soon. With that I totally agree. Does that mean we should ask teachers to take pay cuts? That depends on a couple of things. First off, we need to acknowledge the changes in pay and work conditions that teachers have already experienced. We also need to understand that teacher pay increased slowly over the last decade, even when the private sector was booming. (How much a pay cut hurts now depends on how much your pay increased over the last ten years.) Lastly, I firmly believe that good schools are critical not just for our children's future, but for economic recovery in the here and now. We have roughly the same number of kids to educate (AAPS's count went up this year). Will asking teachers to do more work for less money help with the overall goal of keeping good schools so we can rebuild our community? I'm not saying there is any one simple answer. I just want us all to realize that spending cuts have their costs as well, and we need to make sure we are not being "penny wise and pound foolish."

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 10:20 a.m.

@aataxpayer, Once again, I point you to the menu of benefits. Only two of the four plans available to AAPS teachers are MESSA plans. The others are local HMOs. Since the district pays the same amount regardless, "dumping the MESSA" plans would do nothing to change the budget. If we think it is wise to cut health care coverage, the district could reduce its contribution across the board. But there is no magic way getting rid of MESSA would save money; the only way to save money would be to ask teachers to pay more, for whatever plan they choose. That is, indeed, an option, but let's not pretend that there are any "costless" ways of saving money.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 10:14 a.m.

I know that simply providing facts doesn't really affect the debate, but I just can't help it. Lots of numbers are being thrown around for the funding different districts get. But the same numbers are not being compared. So, below is a list of WISD districts, showing first the per-pupil allocation they are allowed by the state (for 2008-9) and the total funding they received including all local, state and federal dollars (for 2007-08, the latest available). Ann Arbor - $9,723 - $12,140 Chelsea - $7,650 - $9,493 Dexter - $7,938 - $9,637 Lincoln - $7,316 - $9,256 Manchester - $7,513 - $9,108 Milan - $7,316 - $8,375 Saline - $7,643 - $9,272 Whitmore Lake - $7,316 - $9,443 Willow Run - $7,840 - $11,491 Ypsilanti - $7,983 - $12,688 You can compare the first numbers across districts, or the second number, but you can't mix and match without leaving reality behind. The first number is what is determined by the Legislature's formula each year. Differences between districts primarily come from differences in local school taxes before 1994. Those differences have narrowed significantly in the last 15 years. Ann Arbor's "hold harmless," by the way, is $1,234 of the $9,723. That $1,234 has never changed since 1994. The second number includes all state and federal funds, and everything above the foundation allowance (the first number) is somehow earmarked for particular purposes and not available for general costs. For the most part, this is money for special education (federal IDEA, state and some county funding) or programs for at-risk, low income students (federal Title I). The foundation allowance numbers can be found here: http://www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Departments/DataCharts/DCk12_FoundationHistorySincePropA.pdf The total revenue numbers can be found in this MDE report: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mde/b101108_274871_7.pdf If we are going to have productive discussions about our schools' funding, we need to know what we are talking about. Pulling "facts" out of your hip pocket, or quoting other anonymous bloggers, just doesn't cut it.

toomuchtodo

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 9:49 a.m.

To me, it boils down to this, either (1) there will be massive teacher and staff layoffs, and kids' education will be severely damaged by the resulting large class sizes and fewer educational options, OR (2) schools will need to reduce costs in a way that minimizes layoffs- ie., reduce compensation. --------- I would not be in favor of reducing teachers compensation were it not for the fact that (1) Michigan teachers are extremely well compensated relative to other state's (2) The Michigan economy is not expected to recover soon, and all other areas of gov't are being cut back (3) The state is spending more on k-12 education than ever before, and it does not seem feasible that taxpayers will support even higher k12 education spending in this economy (4) The teacher pension fund is unsustainable at its current funding level, and much of any increases to education funding go into the pension "black hole", with no impact on kids education. So, for me, that's how it works out. I understand the concern about fairness regarding whether judges, administrators, UM employees, etc. are ALSO taking cutbacks, and yes, I think they all should. But there will always undoubtedly be some "other" gov't employee that isn't taking a cutback-- does that mean that NO ONE else ever should, either? Now, for those of you who may wish to paint me with a broad brush of "conservative" who's simply out to get the MEA/MESSA, perhaps you should not be so quick to judge. I am a Democrat who went knocking door-to-door for President Obama, my sister is a teacher, and like many Michiganders, was raised in a blue-collar, union-dues paying family. However, I simply believe the kids' interests should come first, regardless of political ideology, and in spite of special interests. I think we all need to work together so the kids are the least damaged by this economic disaster, because they are the key to our state's recovery. To those who are arguing against wage/benefit concessions of any significance from teachers/admin/staff: What do you think must be done to maintain the best education for our kids?

Brit Satchwell

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 9:22 a.m.

Now I see why so many people use anonymous names in these blogs... (sigh)... no need to be accountable for their "facts". Differences of opinion are fine, but the lack of awareness of factual information is quite literally mind-boggling. (Does anyone smell Rome burning, or is it just me?) The voter turnout, county-wide, was a little better than 20%. Almost 80% either did not follow the issue or did not care either way. The "people" did not really speak either yea or nay... they watched TV and went about their day (again). They may be thinking that the issue is just the normal civic background noise, will take care of itself. The wake up call really hits homes next year, but that process has already started. I hope that the approximately 90% of the public who either voted no on the millage or who didn't vote at all will sit up and take notice of what direction they have given for their - not the teachers' - public schools... down. (Yes, it smells like Rome.) MESSA does offer layoff protection and other teacher-specific benefits such as case management. That's why I made a personal choice to pay $3,500 out of my own pocket for MESSA last year... you don't need good insurance until you need it, but then you REALLY need it. Doctors love MESSA for the same reason I chose it, because they pay and don't throw up profit-based roadblocks to patient care. (If you experience any adverse side effects from your insurance plan, be sure to see your doctor immediately.) MESSA is a "VEBA", a non-profit insurer. Those who speak as if they have audited MESSA's books or have magical knowledge of MESSA's wasteful overhead need to notify the IRS and the state pronto, lead them to that waste with my very sincere thanks. They also need to google "VEBA" and read a little about the IRS rules that govern VEBAs before pulling "facts" about "waste" out of... the air. BCBS is not a VEBA, just one of many (!!) reasons why Michigan and our nation have a tragically broken health care system that is crippling every corner of our public and private sectors. ALL (!!!) of MEA's lobbying and political efforts are paid by MEA-PAC. MEA-PAC gets every cent directly from members in the form of PAC contributions. Every local conducts an annual PAC drive, the average contribution is about $25 from members who contribute. This money is held and dispersed from a separate PAC account, cannot be co-mingled with other accounts or spent on non-PAC causes. The law is extremely strict and precise in this regard and MEA and teacher locals are religious in their adherence. MEA-PAC supports candidates from both political parties, selects whom to support according to their stance on education and ONLY education (the "E" in MEA). MEA-PAC recommendations are passed uphill within MEA from locals... local teachers interview candidates before reporting recommendations to MEA central... a shining example of participatory bottom-up democracy. Considering how many people assume that MEA is just one big $ pass through for political shenanigans, you'd think MEA would have been busted by now. Even once over decades! As anyone can see - especially those mired in loud and perpetual cynicism - MEA is under constant scrutiny that proves they play by the rules. Yet those cynics in particular would have us trash teachers rather than focus, as our community's educational leaders and experts have tried to get us to do, on schools and education. The result: the "people" have (not) spoken. But they will (tardy for class in my view). I rue the day when ignorance and apathy become their own reward. Whoops... my bad... that was November 3rd past.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 9:04 a.m.

I'm not completely sold on the hand-wringing that's going on here. Ann Arbor gets nearly $1,850 more per pupil than Saline and $1,500 more per-pupil than Ypsilanti. When you subtract the "hold harmless" funds, Ann Arbor still clears more than $9,250 per student. Despite the huge gap in funding between these districts, Saline and Ypsilanti (along with the other seven districts in the county that get by with substantially less than Ann Arbor) still somehow manage to provide art and music instruction, fund athletics, provide busing; and fund extra-curricular activities. Perhaps the good folks in the AAPS should *ask* the other districts how they've managed to limp along since 1994 with such a disparate level of funding, yet still manage to cover all the extras.

larry

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 7:21 a.m.

It's simple -- the cost per student in Ann Arbor is $12,500. SOMETHING in the AA school system must cost a lot. Find out what, and reduce it (them).

Jimmy Olsen

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 6:50 a.m.

AlfaElan " It could also be that if certain holders of large quantities of property hadn't put so much into defeating it the millage would have passed" What if the "yes" people had raised just as much or more money? Then who would you blame for the defeat? Accept the fact that Washtenaw county voters did not want any new taxes thrown at a system that needs functional change. I think the "yes" people made some poor assumptions about how much more money residents would contribute to schools. I would look for another millage attempt in May or November. If the school districts make some real long term changes that convince voters they understand it has a chance of passing. Business as usual is not acceptable anymore.

DagnyJ

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 6:15 a.m.

Let's move CHS into Skyline. Cut the three buses per hour between the CHS and the other schools. How much will that save?

DonBee

Fri, Nov 13, 2009 : 5:45 a.m.

Steve - At AAPS... The cheapest plan puts an additional $100 a month in the teacher's check to make it even with the next more costly plan. That is $1200 a year per teacher. The second cheapest plan also offers (and I don't have this year's numbers - the last contact that is available is last years), also offers some compensation. So we still have not dealt with all of the overhead of the MESSA contracts in the current benefit offerings. In a couple of years we probably will have with the rise in costs. Changing to just cover the cost of the cheapest plan and letting people pay more for another one above that will be definition save $1200 a teacher. I am not arguing to do this, just pointing out the facts that are in the contract.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 11:58 p.m.

Few people seem to know that the teacher pension plan was changed dramatically in 2007, as part of the grand compromise that temporarily increased the state income tax. Among other things, the changes reduced the proportion of health care costs that would be covered, tightened up rules for when people could apply for full benefits, and also increased the required employee contribution. But the changes can only apply to new employees (starting July 2008), so no savings will be seen until at least 10 years after that. The pension system, which covers public school employees, charter school employees, community college employees, and some others, is called the Michigan Public School Employee Retirement System (MPSERS), and is administered by a state agency. The rules on how benefits vest and what is covered are set by the state legislature. Those who are interested in the gory details may want to peruse the Senate Fiscal Agency's analysis of the bill which made the changes, which became Public Act 111 of 2007: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2007-2008/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2007-SFA-0546-N.pdf

Andrew Thomas

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 9:58 p.m.

1bit: Well, taboo is a pretty strong word, and since this is a public forum, I'd say no, it isn't taboo. But please keep in mind that local districts have absolutely no control over whether or not to participate in the plan, or how much they pay to support it. It's like FICA. Maybe you hate Social Security and Medicare, but you don't have a choice in the matter. If you think this is wrong, you need to take up with the Legislature, not the local school board. Having said that, sure, you have just as much right to talk about that as anything else.

Alan Benard

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 9:41 p.m.

"Well, aataxpayer, I still don't see how eliminating two of the four insurance plans for AAPS teachers would help, since the cost to the district is identical. It wouldn't change the AAPS budget by one dime."Steve, don't waste your time. These posters who constantly harp on MESSA insurance either don't want to or can't read what has been written in plain English for some time -- this is not a cost that makes a difference in the AAPS budget.This kind of blindly emotional complaining about anything to do with the MEA and union activity of any kind is borne of a hatred of unions. Plain and simple. Once we agree that teachers are reduced to being individual contractors or at-will employees, these folks will be happy. But not before.These complaints are irrational and do not have anything to do with quality of education or saving money. They have to do with ideology. If you want to run your school system by someone else's belief system, sign onto this cockeyed plan.

Scott Beal

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 8:47 p.m.

The voters did not say at the polls "we don't want business as usual anymore," because that was not the question on the ballot. People voted against a tax increase to provide money to schools. I think it's hard to extrapolate what else each of the 32,000+ individuals who voted against the millage may have had in mind. Each of them may, like Mr. Dalimonte, have intended a specific and clear message, but the ballot itself has no power to express these messages. The only message that matters is "no millage." Maybe people thought they were voting for school district consolidations, or for salary and benefit concessions from teachers, or for firing assistant principals. Maybe they thought they were voting for a magically more efficient bureaucracy, or for administrators to see "gee, gosh, you guys got us, we sure have been doing business as usual and spending money on everything except classroom instruction but we'll stop now." But that's not how it works. Maybe you don't like what Todd Roberts is saying, but wouldn't it be disingenuous of him to come out and say everything is just fine, and layoffs/program cuts won't be needed? The schools' bind is not a simple case of overspending; schools have endured a series of substantial funding cuts. What does "business as usual" even mean? I like having well compensated teachers who are motivated to do an excellent job. I like sending my kids to excellent public schools. That to me has been business as usual, and I'm all for it. I think the funding crisis sucks. I know the millage was a hard solution for people to swallow, but I think ANY solution is going to be hard to swallow. There are no good answers. I think what you hear from Mr. Roberts is simply an acknowledgment of that.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 8:45 p.m.

Well, aataxpayer, I still don't see how eliminating two of the four insurance plans for AAPS teachers would help, since the cost to the district is identical. It wouldn't change the AAPS budget by one dime. I am also highly skeptical of the estimates of how much more MESSA costs, overhead, etc. All the estimates I have seen in these blog posts come from people with a political axe to grind. I have yet to see anyone go though and compare two plans, one BCBS and one MESSA, which are truly identical in every respect, and show that there is that large a cost difference. Plus, as I pointed out, MESSA adds things like layoff protection and private case management, that are not available from BCBS. But the point is, if teachers get to choose like consumers, and they shoulder the entire extra cost of MESSA, how is that a bad thing? Even more to the point, replacing the MESSA plans with BCBS plans, even if they were identical and even if they did cost less, would cut the out-of-pocket for teachers but not change the district's cost. On the other hand, adjusting the district's contribution can be done regardless of what health plans are in the mix. They already did that in the new contract, which bumped up the district's insurance contribution but cut the district's contribution to prescription drug benefits. This ends up giving a boost to younger, and lower-earning, teachers while shifting the health cost burden more to older, but better paid, teachers. Let me also note that MESSA cannot legally give MEA money for lobbying. They pay "marketing fees" to MEA, but so far I have only seen innuendo that this supports MEA's political activity, no real evidence. The numbers are not that large. But I have seen some news organizations, like MIRS News, have to retract statements that MESSA subsidizes MEA lobbying because that essentially accuses MEA of breaking the law, for which there is no evidence. Please remember that the debate over the MEA is also mixed up in partisan politics in Lansing, which quite frankly has nothing to do with education policy at the state or local levels, but IS all about control of the Legislature and the Governor's office.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 7:24 p.m.

I think its important to realize how AAPS, at least, has handled health care for current teachers. (I'm not as familiar with the other WISD districts, so I can't speak to their situation.) AAPS teachers choose from a menu of health care options, rather like the one offered to UM staff. The district contributes the same amount regardless. The district contribution pays for the less expensive plans (HMOs) in their entirety, but only covers a portion of the MESSA plans (one PPO and one fee-for-service plan). In both the last contract and this one, the amount the district contribution will increase each year is also capped, regardless of how much premiums increase. So, for AAPS at least, switching away from MESSA is not an issue, since it would not change the district's costs. Ann Arbor teachers are free to choose the plan they want, and a good proportion of them choose to pay a substantial amount per month for one of the MESSA plans. This is not as strange as it sounds. When I've compared them in the past, the MESSA plans are not identical to BCBS plans, and in any case there is tons of customizing that can be done from either provider when choosing a group health plan. MESSA does offer layoff benefit protection (or did), and they offer private case management, which I am told is very helpful for beneficiaries with serious illnesses. Both of these are add-ons to the underlying plans. If teachers, as consumers, want to pay more out of pocket to have MESSA, I don't see a problem with that. The real problem is that the cost of health care - any health care - keeps rising many times the rate of inflation. Every organization, from schools to small business, faces a choice between cutting into their margins or giving employees an effective pay cut year after year after year. This is truly a no-win situation that simply can't continue if we want to foster economic growth.

Andrew Thomas

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 4:25 p.m.

Mr. Dalimonte: I'm not sure where you get the impression that Dr. Roberts is considering teacher layoffs and program reductions as a first option. In his letter to parents of November 5, Dr. Roberts stated "Our goal in addressing the loss of funding for this school year is to reduce costs through means that will be least disruptive to our students and educational program." This is essentially the same as what you are advocating. In that same letter, he also made a commitment to "careful and thoughtful planning" that will include input from parents, staff and the AAPS community. This is hardly business as usual. In fact, the only recommendation you have put forth that Dr. Roberts is not implementing is a search for a consulting firm to help develop a business plan for the district. Now, I have been a business manager for over 25 years, and I can tell you that, in my experience, the quickest way to blow through a whole lot of money and have very little to show for it is to hire a consultant. The district has been heavily criticized in the past (with some justification) for spending an inordinate amount of money on consultants. With the help of the community at large -- including business leaders who are willing to donate their time and energy -- I am confident that Dr. Roberts and his administrative team will be able to come up with a solid list of recommendations for dealing with the funding crisis.

TruBlue

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 3:45 p.m.

Well said Frank except I think AA wants business as usual continuing to throw money at a broken system. Whereas the rest ofthe county would like to fix the system.

AlfaElan

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 3:01 p.m.

Last I looked 56% of Ann Arbor voters voted for the millage, not against it. Outside of Ann Arbor the results were mixed, but less than 50% of the country voted for the millage so it failed to pass. That to me is not a clear signal of anything. It could be a 1.5 mil millage would have passed, or it oculd be a 1 mil millage would have passed. It could also be that if certain holders of large quantities of property hadn't put so much into defeating it the millage would have passed. While I am all for fiscal responsibility and efficiency, I have not seen signs that the Ann Arbor school district is full of waste, like the Detroit school district was. Also losing $500 per student partway through a school year is extemely difficult for any school district to deal with. If the state cuts were to go into effect next school year it would be much easier to deal with.

treetowncartel

Thu, Nov 12, 2009 : 2:20 p.m.

Too bad Robert Bobb can't clone himself, he seems to be having a good deal of success in Detroit.