Grade

Sat, Sep 26, 2009 : 10:05 a.m.

Rork Kuick...why would you think Waterloo is leash free?

Salinemary

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 3:31 p.m.

I wholeheartedly agree with Sandra. Only an irresponsible pet owner would have their dog(s) off leash in that setting. The only place dogs belong off leash is on your own fenced-in property or in an officially designated "off leash dog park".

somebody7

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 3:04 p.m.

Somehow, Rork, I don't think you'll get too far on this issue (or any other) by being rude - that's a horrible suggestion! I've hiked in Stinchfield Woods at least 2 times a week for over a decade and have NEVER seen a horse there. Many years ago, people used to ride their horses there, but not any time recently. I don't think you know what you're talking about re. this issue. Maybe you have Stinchfield mixed up with another area?

Rork Kuick

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 11:04 a.m.

I use Stinchfield often, and have had problems with people's dogs. I sometimes bitch the people out if there dogs are bothering me, but ofcourse they are special, as are the bikers, and folks on horses, who get my worst sarcasm. It is they that can go some other place. "Stinchfield Woods has been an unofficial off leash place" is not acceptable, when it is clear that it is banned. The Waterloo/Pinckney Recreation area is huge, and nearby to there. I think I'll be getting more rude to the worst violators, and if others do as well, it might help.

spm

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 9:34 a.m.

Grade, I couldn't agree with you more. There are not enough parks for dogs to run free with trails and woods. In NYC there are parks that at certain times of the day allow dogs off leash. Why can't Ann Arbor do that too? I want to walk with my dogs off leash, not just watch the dogs run around on a garbage dump on the other side of town. Perhaps it's time to talk with the city council again.

Grade

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 8:43 p.m.

There are two dog parks in Ann Arbor, compared to how many "people parks"? Stinchfield Woods has been an unofficial off leash place for more years than probably most of the complainers have been in the area. And it's not even in Ann Arbor! How about walking at Hudson Mills, Dexter Huron, Delhi, or the multitude of AA parks and let the dog owners have a place where we can really run/walk our dogs - not just stand around watching them socialize at the dog parks.

kate

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 5:21 p.m.

Well the only harm the dogs caused you was that they were in your sight. The ladies were right; their dogs didn't bite you. Relax! Gently telling the owners that you were concerned is fine but I'm pretty sure you are more upset about her response than her actions. Let it go.

treetowncartel

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 3:01 p.m.

Bunny, You can encounter Bobcats near Houghton Lake. I'm sure they are are down here in the southern part of the state. Thank goodness DDT is banned, there has been definieltely been a resuyrgence in wildlife as a result, particularly birds. Great to see those hawks and falcons hunting on the medican strips of the highway. One other thing to do is just start dancing like James Brown when something approaches you in the woods. They may not think you know karate', but they sure might think you know crazy.

bunnyabbot

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 12:40 p.m.

treetown, "bear bells" they'll hear you coming. They also have "bear spray" and I am sure one of those air horn cans would scare the crap out of everything. Regardless, if you run into anything that has dementia (as yes, animals can develope) some senile bear might think you are a groundhog or a treetrunk full of grubs. If you are in the UP though (and even as far south as the Ann Arbor area) than you could just as likely encounter a Couger (not talking about a hot to trot over 40 year old MILF, and I am so used to saying mountain lion) than a bear. Oh, I hate those no-see-um bugs. Thats another reason hikers have a kerchief tied to a stick protruding from a back pack, cover the cloth with bug spray. Of course the frugal tip is Bounce fabric sheets (but only Bounce brand works) something about it keeps bugs away, rodents also don't like it as well as spiders, so a few in a linen or kitchen cupboard etc work well. Just remember to change them out every 4-6 weeks. In the woods it might be wise to tie a Bounce sheet to your dogs collar as well. I also suggest that if you meet an unleashed dog in the woods you keep walking say get back forcibly, if it jumps on you you say off forcibly or lift your knee and say NO. Or say go find your daddy or mama. Most often a Go On will work as well. Honestly I would worry more about being accosted by a person than a dog. I think most women (and men for that matter) would rather be biten up by a dog than raped.

a2dancelady

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 10:52 a.m.

Somebody7 - Unfortunately this was not an isolated incident... more like the "straw that broke the camel's back". I have hiked on University properties for close to 50 years and had many encounters with dogs running loose and away from their owners. I do carry a cell phone, am careful about where I hike, and usually a friend or family know the places I'm likely to hike. Am a very strong hiker... recently successfully completed some rocky and steep canyon country hikes. The older women who owned the loose dogs were probably 15 years younger than I. But I think its time to close this topic! The bottom line is: (1) Hikers in Stinchfield Woods and Saginaw Forest are not breaking any rules. (2) Hikers in Stinchfield Woods and Saginaw Forest with dogs on leashes are not breaking any rules. (3) Hikers with unleashed dogs running loose ARE BREAKING THE RULES AND DEMONSTRATING THEIR RUDENESS AND LACK OF CONSIDERATION FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN THEMSELVES.

somebody7

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 10:05 a.m.

A2dancelady/Sandra, despite the fact that I think that this editorial to annarbor.com about an isolated encounter is a bit of an overreaction, I really do feel for you. I, too, am a woman - and sometimes I feel uncomfortable when hiking in the woods (although in general, I am more afraid of encounters with other people, rather than animals). I SHOULD be able to walk whever I want, whenever I want, but this is not a perfect world we live in. I try to make careful choices about where I go, and I always carry a cell phone with me, and let friends/family know where I am. If you are indeed a 78 year old woman, I hope you are taking the proper precautions when walking in the woods alone, wherever you go. In addition to the dangers posed by domestic and wild animals, there are also physical dangers such as tree roots, ice. etc. I would be worried if my 78-year-old mother were going for long walks in the woods by herself, without some sort of human or canine companionship. As an aside, you referred to the dog owners as "older women" - did you mean that they were older than you?

treetowncartel

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:51 a.m.

Bunny, in my comment I was actually referencing an R & B song, it was a little sarcasm. I had heard that making yourself appear larger with certain animals, e.g. putting your hands up above your head can be of some use. It also works for those no-see-um bugs. Instead of hovering around your face they will go up to the highest point of your body, your hand. Thanks for all the advice on the bears though. I've only been in their territory up north here in Michigan, so its balck bears. Typically, I have a dog or two around me so they would more likely than not be the first line of defense. Bears around here are trouble if they have cubs or have just wandered out of a den in the winter. Most of the time they retreat when they get whiff of a human. With resepect to charging dogs. I used to get charged a lot when I had a paper route as a kid. The dogs that usually came after me were the smaller dogs, terriers and those little shitzus. In fact the only type of dog that ever attemtpeed to bite me was a small dog, which it suceeded in doing. Dogs will sense your fear and play off of it, standing your ground is the best thing to do. In sum, be the Alpha and not the Omega. That is the main problem with a lot of dogs, their owners fail to be the Alpha in the pack. However, you should be prepared for them to come at you and side step it and give it a swift kick to the midesection, If a dog does bite into you or take hold, the eyes are the best place to start, even if you have to gouge them out. The worst scenarios that come with a dog off the leash is if it approaches a dog on a leash. Most dogs are territorial in nature and when a leashed dog is approached by an unleashed dog almost any dog will take a defensive posture, since the leash is attached to its most treasured territory, its best friend.

a2dancelady

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:22 a.m.

"Somebody7" - "Accosted" may mean different things to different people. However, I mean that the dogs invaded my personal space by encircling my legs, and I had no way of knowing whether or not they were all going to jump on me. If they had, they could easily have knocked me over. I may be a senior citizen, but I am very strong and in excellent physical condition, and these four large dogs could easily have knocked over a much younger person! While I do not dislike dogs nor am I afraid of them in general, I do not enjoy being licked, sniffed, rubbed or anything else by a dog unless I do the inviting. Again, I must reiterate that these dogs were not under the control of any visible owner at the time they ran at me.

somebody7

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 8:02 a.m.

A2DanceLady/Sandra - you keep using the word "accosted". What exactly do you mean by that? How did the dogs accost you? Was it by the act of encircling you, or did they jump on you? Some clarification might help people to better understand your point of view.

a2dancelady

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 7:49 a.m.

My goodness! I never expected such a huge response to my complaint about being accosted by a pack of dogs with no owners in sight! "Voice of Reason" - I've been hiking in Stinchfield Woods probably for more years than you've been alive (I'm almost 78!) The bottom line is that there is a leash law for Stinchfield Woods and we all have a right to hike there without having to face unknown dogs running loose. Dog owners need to respect me and the rules. I choose to hike in Stinchfield rather than the Metroparks and no one has the right to tell me that I should eliminate Stinchfield from my itinerary if I don't like being accosted by unleashed dogs. Thanks for all the support from the rest of you!

somebody7

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 7:40 a.m.

Right on, Voice of Reason. I've been hiking in Stinchfield for about 12 years now, too (and I live nearby, in a rural community). I wish fewer people knew about it...

John Galt

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 12:11 a.m.

It seems to me that if you chose to own a dog, you are responsible for it. This means that you live in a situation where you have a fenced yard, can devote enough time for (leashed) excercise, and can make trips to dogs parks or other areas to have appropriate "off-leash" time. If you cannot handle it, you should not have the dog. If your dog is off the leash and threatens others, they have the right to take appropriate defensive action and to sue you for having the animal off leash. I personally like dogs. However, some dog owners are irresponsible. A good dog can often be ruined by irresponsible owners.

bunnyabbot

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 10:54 p.m.

treetown, I think you need to read up on what to do if you encounter a bear in the woods. You just stated what you are suppose to do if you encounter a mountain lion (which also goes by couger and puma-they are the SAME animal) except you left out the bit about not making eye contact with it and backing away slowly. encounter a black bear and you should: - never turn and run. Any bear, on any terrain, can outrun you. And running often serves to trigger its chase instinct. - if the bear hasn't noticed you yet, try to back away quietly until you are clear - if the bear has noticed you, but is more than 100 yard/metres away, move your arms up and down slowly and speak to it in low, soothing tones. The point is to show it that you're a human, not to try to scare it off. Keep talking and moving your arms while you back away until safe. - if the bear charges: Sometimes a charge is a bluff. The bear will probably make more noise and bound at you quickly, with its head and ears up. In such a case, stand your ground, and when the charge is done, resume the backing-up-waving-arms-speaking strategy. - if the bear attacks/makes contact: Here, advice differs depending on the source of the advice, and often depending on the species. According to some, when encountering a black bear: fight back. Use a rock or a branch, and aim for the eyes and nose. When encountering a grizzly bear, play dead. Drop to the ground. Lie on your stomach, with your hands covering the back of your neck; alternately, a tight fetal position. If you have a backpack on you, keep it on and always keep it between you and the bear (if the bear tries to roll you over, keep rolling until you're back on your stomach). also black bears are climbers, they will chase you up a tree and pull you down just for the fun of it. Grizzlies on the other hand are not climbers (thier claws do not hook), but if you climb beaware they can just knock a tree down unless it is a sturdy one. If there are baby bears involved it could go either way, mama bear will beat you unconscious and leave you alive to get back to the cubs or kill you. Either way you will lose blood. it's best not to wear the clothes you cooked in when you walk in the woods. You don't want to smell like a 6 ft piece of bacon. as someone who hikes a lot out west in bear country and has a relative with grizzly (yes more than one bear!) stories I am well versused in what to do or not do around lions, bears, bison etc. Really, bring on a loose dog in the woods.

David Briegel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 5:28 p.m.

ElizabethinA2, you are the exception. Way too many people have their trophy dogs, without enough room to properly exercise them, don't even bother to walk them, and they don't behave! Then they expect everyone to love an untrained, unexercised, out of control animal! The dog isn't the problem, the OWNER is the problem. The owner is why we need leash laws and YOU have to suffer their selfishness and their arrogance. Heck, they even keep the dogs in cages because they are irresponsible!

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 5:16 p.m.

ElizabethinA2 - Common Sense. Wow! YES!

ElizabethinA2

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:31 p.m.

I think the woman in the woods was trying to convey that she wouldn't have let them off if she didn't trust them. In other words - she was thinking about others before making the assessment that it was safe. It would indeed be irresponsible to have a vicious dog off leash - the law was created to avoid those infrequent incidences when a dog causes harm. These dogs, in contrast, had earned her trust by acting appropriately. She therefore felt that the PURPOSE of the law - to avoid harm - was still in tact. I trust my dog implicitly. In 5 years off leash in this town and others she has never had an incident with any person or animal(she is always within 20 feet of me and is trained to stay on the sidewalk - she does not jump up or even approach people that dont invite her). The few times anyone has disagreed with this practice they were on the other side of the street, clearly out of danger, and were very rude. They barked at me when they yelled "there's a leash law" and made it into a very bad experience for all involved. Why does it bother them so much if my dog is on the sidewalk, where they are supposed to be, and are under a vocal leash? Why such adversity? If you disagree with my practice can't you at least be polite? This is not a federal offense people - it's a minor law and a minor infraction to break it. I break plenty of laws all the time and dont consider myself a criminal. Do all those community policing folks out there claim that they never gone the wrong way in a parking lot or made a U turn on a side street? Allow for some slack with your neighbors and they will give you some in return. Come down on everyone any time you disapprove and you will indeed be met with an indignant, defensive response. While I am glad for the rule of law, I am also glad that I feel empowered to use my own judgment to act ethically in my community. Oh and I HATE cats. But guess what? When I see my neighbors' cat on my property, I let it be even though it is against the law. I've even trained my dog to leave cats alone, just to be a good neighbor, because hey, my dog's off leash and could chase it if allowed to. She hasn't in all her years and will not because it is possible to train a dog and to keep it under control using verbal commands. If you dont believe that, then you dont know what dogs are capable of when properly trained (lets hope you never need a service dog). And if we dont allow good dogs the space to learn and succeed, then we will never have trained dogs in our neighborhoods. Get it? With a little wiggle room and a little understanding, the good dogs are allowed to thrive and learn and grow into citizens that dont require leashes. If we continue to use leashes instead of training, then, yeah, they'll be too dumb to walk freely and all dogs really will need to be leashed for safety. Leashes are the lowest common denominator in dog control. I will continue to defend my dog as a good citizen with the freedom to walk alongside her pack. And if I ever met a police officer that thought it was worth their time to write me a citation, I'll pay it and then continue my practice. She's earned it by being good and never providing a single reason to constrain her. The paranoia of my neighbors doesn't present an adequate reason for me. I'll combat that through education.

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:24 p.m.

"So, we need to come to a detemination if we are more worried about urban or rural unleashedness" Thank you. Urban=leash. Rural=unleashed with the understanding that your dog remain under control in the presence of others, better yet, leashed up until all parties agree to unleash. If you KNOW your dog has issues, then you would KNOW to keep your dog on a leash, and inform others 'my dog is not friendly." That is how it has been at stinchfield. Not a hard concept to master.

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:03 p.m.

It isn't a 'Law" per se. I have notified the U of M's caretaker, but unless someone is hunting, even I have had to suck it up and decide that if I really don't enjoy being there, then I don't go. But I do, so I deal. Kinda like smoking in eateries - I don't smoke, but people have a right, so if I don't want to be around it, I go somewhere else. Having lived in that area, I've noticed people tend to take care of problems in their own way. Stinchfield has always had an easy going, no worries, code of ethics, but I have noticed that there are some people (some with strollers on the trails) that seem to think that the area is like the Metropark down the road. It isn't. It is 700+ acres of unmarked trails that I've guided more than one lost person back to the road. It isn't for the high maintenance hiker. If people lack the skills for that environment, then perhaps a more maintained locale would be better for them.

treetowncartel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:03 p.m.

We need a follow up story from an expert, what to do if approached by dog(s). I know if you encounter a bear in the woods you are supposed to raise your hands in the air and waive them like you just don't care. This has the effect of making you appear larger to the bear.

Arboriginal

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3 p.m.

Let's leash all cats as well. Cats kill birds. Cats are an environmental catastrophe. Right?

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:57 p.m.

If you don't want to be attacked by roving bands of dogs who stalk the parks in Ann Arbor then stop using beef scented cologne.

amlive

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:54 p.m.

"Mace is considered a Concealed Weapon. Use it and you will be the one being sued and going to jail. Add animal cruelty, and you too can have your picture on channel 7. Churlish Ann Arborites." Not entirely true. "Mace" has become a rather generic term, commonly used interchangeably with "tear gas" or "pepper spray", though the chemicals can differ. Michigan has some of the tightest regulations here, but you can still carry up to a 35 gram container of 2% concentrate OC pepper spray, and I believe some types of CS tear gas may even be legal (both of these sold under the "Mace" brand). Anyone over 18 can buy it (I know they sell it at Main Street Party Store), and as long as it "is used in the protection of your person or property which would justify the use of physical force", the person spraying is fully within their rights. I don't think it would be hard to convince an officer or judge that your use qualified as such, if you felt you were being threatened by an untended dog (or pack) in the woods. What's the record for number of comments on an AnnArbor.com letter to the editor? Sandra, I think you really hit some nerves on this one.....

treetowncartel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:52 p.m.

Yeah, but if they sent out a U of m employee to address the complaints, their payroll might not be able to be taxed under the proposed city income tax since they are not working within city limts. As a ressult, Ann Arbor might lose a possible funding source for re-hiring the animal control officers that were laid off. So, we need to come to a detemination if we are more worried about urban or rural unleashedness. Maybe we could do a poll?

djm12652

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:19 p.m.

Voice...If the 'bikers' are breaking the law, along with dog owners breaking the law...and no one at UM is made aware of it, how can anything be done?...if you or anyone unhappy with the behavior of others doesn't contact the owners...nothing will be done to enforce the law...

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:13 p.m.

No. It is not a law. I lived in the Pinckney/Dexter area for 8 years. Yes, it is on the official U of M site regarding their properties. However, the law dictates that a behaviour left unchecked is allowed to continue, it cannot be enforced. Now, that being said - there have been an invasion of mountain bikers at Stinchfield, notably from the Fat Tire Mountain Biking Club, that is chainsawing, putting up speed signs, and more importantly, riding at excessive speeds up and down limited field of vision hills, and cussing out anyone in their way. They leave powershot wrappers, broken glass, and other trash. This worries me more than the occasional ignorant person that thinks it's grand to allow his/her 5 dogs off leash. I've been hiking there for 12 years. I have had unpleasant interactions with people and their dogs. But, like in life, I deal with the infrequent setbacks and move on. There's lots of things I don't approve of, being an older woman and the rampant stupidity that our society demonstrates, but suck it up people. When you were born, no one painted you name on the Welcome to Earth sign.

djm12652

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2 p.m.

voiceofreason...this RURAL area you speak of, is leashing dogs there the law? If yes, no excuses how rustic a walk can be...put a leash on the dog...and to Moose, my dog and I have been challenged by off leash dogs...and as an agressive leader myself, they will either back down or they will be shut down to protect me and my dog, don't need mace, pepper spray or a weapon...

djm12652

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:54 p.m.

If anyone has a dog off leash, I do hope the realize they are doing one simple thing...BREAKING THE LAW!!!! My dog is trained to stay on a heel when walking...but the law says she must be leashed and so she is...this is not something that is open for discussion and/or argument. IT IS THE LAW! If you have a big dog that needs to run for exercise, you have 3 choices..1] take the dog to a fenced-in designated dog park, 2] put the dog on a treadmill at home, 3] move to the country with at least 20 acres!

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:50 p.m.

"If I keep my car registered and in safe working order, and if I don't intend to hit anyone, is it okay if I drive up and down Packard at 75 mph?" Well, if the police were not busy ticketing dog owners, then perhaps they'd be able to ticket you for stupidity. Seriously people, why don't you stretch it further into yet another ridiculous argument? Society's Entitled Few are so lacking in brains. If it doesn't 'suit' you, it is an infringement on YOUR rights. I'm not saying that people should let their dogs run amok, just as YOUR children shouldn't be allowed to run amok - my neighbors just found a gaggle of kids in his front yard, picking his flowers, WITH THE PARENTS LOOKING ON!) So with every dog argument, there's a corresponding "WELL, I don't approve of _____, and YOU shouldn't do______." Be responsible for yourself and stop being everyone else's nanny. Oh, and please stay out of the woods. You're ruining my Chi.

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:25 p.m.

Mace is considered a Concealed Weapon. Use it and you will be the one being sued and going to jail. Add animal cruelty, and you too can have your picture on channel 7. Churlish Ann Arborites.

nimbus123

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:36 p.m.

"But let me tell you, go and try to mace/kick my dog, and I will put the hurt on you." If you do, I will sue you. And that is after I mace your dog for approaching me and my children in a threatening way.

Voice of Reason

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:56 a.m.

Personal Responsibility & Common Sense. I agree insofar that when in the city limits, one should keep their dogs on a leash. My dog is on leash, but if a park is empty, she will walk within 5' of me offleash - but if others show up, she leashes up. Should I get caught and ticketed, that's my fault. It's all about Personal Responsibility. The OP is 20 miles out in a WOODED RURAL area, known for off leash activity - this is not a discussion about the 18 square miles of the Emerald City of Ann Arbor. There's lots of scary things in the woods - coyotes, raccoons, deer, oh my! steep hills, and gosh, unpaved paths. Some of us go there to enjoy a rural area, unfettered by the social constraints of city life - believe it or not, it's relaxing. If you want to commune with nature, and want protection, safety, and sterile environment, go to a Metropark. I am weary of the types of people that wish to pave a path lest they twist an ankle, put up a railing to keep their mostly unattended children from tumbling down a cliff, and a universal umbrella over it all, lest it rain and spoil their Rightful Time In the Woods. I agree, having a large unattended group of dogs run up to you is disconcerting, but that is the chance you take when in a RURAL area. If you cannot deal with the surprises and risks in life, then stay in the city (or whatever shell you deem Safe.) And while the >few that we have left after budget cuts to beautify our city< police are busy ticketing dog owners, have fun being accosted by the vagrants, dope pushers, streetwalkers (yes, there is prostitution in A2) drunk college students that damage property, red light runners, bashers, people that urinate/poop/puke/ all over our streets....shall I go on? You can have your safe, all dogs are restrained, city...I'll take my chances in woods where the Wild Things Roam anytime.

Tom Teague

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:34 a.m.

These are amazing justifications for breaking a well-known law. Using this logic, I have to ask: If I keep my car registered and in safe working order, and if I don't intend to hit anyone, is it okay if I drive up and down Packard at 75 mph?

bunnyabbot

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:31 a.m.

people assume that the dog parks in the area are enough. The are not. They are not located in decent areas. There are also no wooded area with trails allowed specifically for dogs. For all the talk about how green a2 is and all the parks and green belt crap the mayor wants how about they have a dog park people actually want and will use that isn't put in as an aftertought or done half-assed.

AAJoker

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:21 a.m.

bunnyabbot, It is your choice to have a dog and to live in Ann Arbor proper. Other people should not have to "get over it and get to know dogs" if they don't want to; instead it is your job to make sure your dog never infringes in their space. I love to run with my dog and I'm very sick of all dog owners thinking all dogs at all times want to socialize, get a clue and control your animals! If you don't like the leash law, either campaign to change it or move out of town. Until then, buck up and follow the law!

LEK

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:15 a.m.

I am glad to see this topic getting so much discussion. I also walk / run in the parks around Bird Hills and will sometimes have my own (leashed) dog with me. I often encounter unleashed dogs (sometimes running in packs together) in these areas and have had mixed experiences with the dogs and their owners. I will usually remind the owners that there is a reason for their dog to be leashed and that this is not a dog park. Sometimes I get a polite response back, but sometimes not. It's too bad that this law cannot be enforced for the safety of all. And I don't understand why some people assume that the law does not apply to them. One thing that I've noticed is that there is often a different behavioral dynamic between leashed and unleashed dogs. Unleashed dogs are typically more aggressive with leashed dogs, especially if there's a group of unleashed dogs involved. And leashed dogs may feel more protective of their owners and act more defensively with off-leash dogs that may approach them. The answer is not to have all dogs off leash (there are parks for that), but to have people obey the law. I've had too many instances where the off-leash dog will pick a fight with my leashed dog and then I'm stuck trying to break it up because the owner is no where in sight. Not all dogs want to play with other dogs. And not all dogs are going to respond well to a dog that approaches it while on-leash. So I don't care how nice your dog is or how well you think you can control your dog, it's still an animal and you can't predict how they may respond in a new sitation. And you also can't predict how someone else's dog may respond to yours. Please respect others who want to use this public space. And if you want your dog to run off-leash, please take it to a park specificly designated for that activity.

treetowncartel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:09 a.m.

Why must I be like that? Why must I chase the cat? Nothing but the dog thats in me.

somebody7

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 10:50 a.m.

I do think it's nice to be able to let well-behaved dogs off their leashes when walking in the woods (NOT in Ann Arbor proper). However, I only do this when I can't see/hear anyone else and I always instruct my dog to stay with me (no running ahead). When I encounter other people, I put the dog right back on the leash. It is rude to allow to allow one's dog to run up to strangers, who might be afraid of dogs, etc. Even if the strangers are walking dogs, too, one never knows if their dogs are aggressive or not. On the other hand, I think that writing an editorial to annarbor.com regarding one frustrating experience with a group of strangers is a little bit of overkill. I'd hate to see a few irresponsible dog-owners and/or overreactive hikers ruin the laidback, friendly atmosphere of Stinchfield Woods. As an alternative, consider walking in the Metroparks, were there some very nice trails, and the security staff do a nice job of enforcing the leash laws.

thecheckeredman

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 9:30 a.m.

My lab mix is just over the 50# mark, a medium sized dog and timid as can be, but despite her easy going nature I am not comfortable letting her off her lead. It's not that I don't think she'll hurt anyone, but you just never know... I grew up on a farm up north and we never leashed our dogs up there, but living in AA is a whole different deal. I know my dog needs to run around and play now and again and she gets lots of that when we visit my folks back home. Here, in AA, she's a city dog, and the rules say that she stays on a leash. Yeah, it kind of sucks, but the rule is probably there for a reason. Please, if you live in AA, and don't have a fenced in yard, just keep your dog on a leash.

sls

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 9:19 a.m.

This is what happens when you don't have an animal control officer whom the asst city attorneys office never supported anyway. The ann arbor police are equally as unhelpful. We had a neighbor with 3 large dogs that they would let out at 5:00 a.m. They also left one of the dogs outside for a week while they went on vacation. We still had an animal control officer at the time and she witnessed the dog barking and ticketed them and the asst city attorneys office threw out the ticket because they said we were harrassing them. One of the dogs was in our yard barking at us one time while we were barbequing. These people had a fenced yard, but the dogs could easily fit their heads through the slats and reach over the 4 foot fence which was only inches from a public sidewalk. It was a clear public safety issue yet we have a city council that approved chickens. Until we get a new mayor and a new city council it will always be the people who complain that are the problem, never the lawbreakers.

RunrDad

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 8:43 a.m.

I am a runner who regularly runs around Ann Arbor. I have (several times) encountered unleashed dogs, and luckily never been injured or had to defend myself from a dog. But I've definitely come close. It is a much more serious problem than many people realize. Especially because dogs seem to see runners as criminals trying to escape them. Bird Hills Park is THE WORST. Constantly loose dogs. Also, I agree with the previous post regarding Dog Parks. There is a huge one on the corner of Platt and Ellsworth. PLEASE just go there.

susan

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 7:27 a.m.

This problem is not just here or in the U.S. In Europe they now have muzzle laws in some countries because of past problems with dogs.

Laura Bien

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 6:23 a.m.

As an owner of a Lab mix and a chow mix, I am firmly in favor of leash laws, and obey them. It's the law. If you don't like the law, campaign to change it. Don't break it and offer numerous rationalizations as to why your dog has the right to menace passersby and children who have no idea whether this is a good or a bad dog. People have a right to enjoy sidewalks, parks, and woods unmolested. On the sidewalk, I always veer off into the grass a bit with my dogs if a passerby comes by. Passersby have a right to use the sidewalk without interference from my dogs. In the park near my home, they stay on-leash--there are usually a lot of kids on the play structures, and for all I know some may be afraid of or allergic to dogs. Back home, my dogs have a good-sized fenced yard to run around and exercise in, with their favorite "spots." Those who let their dogs run wild in public spaces other than dog parks might consider buying a house with a big fenced yard where your dogs can roam around and play without breaking laws or menacing passersby.

NorthMaple

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 6:11 a.m.

I own two dogs and frequently walk them in the Abbot neighborhood, and they are never off leash unless they are in a fully fenced-in area so that I can control where they run and who they greet. There are plenty of dog facilities in the area, so there really is no reason the dogs can't be socialized in a controlled environment.

bunnyabbot

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:28 a.m.

I too see this as an easy opinion peice to put in the news. Sadly, this site is lacking in actual news articles. As a dog owner I abide by the leash laws. That being said if I am in an open field behind a school when school is not in session and there is no one within sight of the vast soccer fields I might drop the leash of my dog to let him "be free", this is a great way for us to practice some obidiance (like return, come, come quick, and follow me) even though he already knows these it is in another enviorment with different smells than say at home or at another park, or on a friends large property. If I see someone I call him back, pick up the leash and walk him. As someone else stated, often I am walking him (and he is a large dog) and someone else walking a dog will approach and cross the street to avoid us. Ok, my dog is walking at a heel, a big dog at a heel. You have usually a yapper 20 pounds or less forging ahead on the leash and you cross the street. That dog owner is making the situation worse. My dog is socialized with several under 10 pound dogs that could fit in his mouth, which you probably would be surprised at, additionally any one can tell my breed of dog is well known to be of above average intelligence, so he probably understands leave it better than your dog when commanded to leave it. Your dog on the other hand is learning that if he barks uncontrollably and you cross the street that dogs should be avoided, this is actually the more irresponsible thing to do. joggers, people with strollers, on bikes, rollerblades etc. don't avoid dogs. Go about your activity. Don't change your route because of a leashed dog. Teach your children the proper way to greet a new dog, to ask and also the proper way to put their hand out, get smelled and then to pet. I am always amazed by the kids who run up to my dog and throw their arms around him. He of course loves this attention, wiggles and kisses them, I know how he is, but if kids do this to other dogs? I don't get it. People, dogs go into the pet store, if you don't want your kids to touch the dogs, don't bring them to the store with you. I don't get this behavior. Additionally, if you have a little dog don't bring them in if you are afraid of a big dog getting too close. I am not going to apologize for having a big dog at the pet store who wants to smell every dog, thats what they do, smell. Your little dog actually likes it too. They have a nose afterall. I wish more woodsy parks around here would have "dog off leash hours" or dog "days". The dog parks are all open spaces. It's nice to hit a trail and let the dog off leash. Most people that bother to go to these places with their dogs wouldn't want to lose their dogs, so therefore are more likely to one, not let the dog get to far away, and two, be aware of how many people are around. yes, I let me dog "off leash" at a park before, but again, low people at the time, he was 3-8 months old at the time and it was good practice for him to keep me in his sight, stay by mama, come back, leave it and this way or follow and to the few people in that time who we did meet along the trail he was clearly a puppy, we also met several dogs this way including the grumpy old man with a pack of fat huskies off leash. if you don't like dogs that is your fault. they are popular, get over it. (most people who are dog lovers don't trust people who don't like dogs) yes, your attitude and stiffness is picked up by your children whether you say something or not. additionally, owners of dogs, your dogs pick up on your cues around other dogs/situation. the best thing to do if you are afraid of a dog is walk by or through them owning the space, don't look at them or give them a second thought, you think, this is where I am going, where my foot falls I own. additionally, there really isn't a lot of ferrel dogs around ann arbor. but in general if a dog looks clean and healthy its most likely well taken care of, loved and has an owner who cares about his well being enough to not want him to bite someone and risk having to put thier dog down. I would suggest more people stop to pet/meet more dogs they encounter, good interaction for the dogs and for the people/kids also if you have a dog that more stop others with dogs so they can do noses. few dogs don't like to do noses.

mdc

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:53 a.m.

Sandra, I had a similar experience a couple years back... it involved a large unleashed dog jumping on me and my 1 year old (it was just being playful, but easily could have unintentionally harmed my son). I submitted a letter to the Ann Arbor News a few months back after having further trouble with unleashed dogs in the same area (Slauson field and my yard). I'm happy to say that I think people have at least been taking some extra care during the time Saturday mornings when Slauson becomes an unofficial dog park... even if they do continue their unleashed dog gatherings. I have only had a couple dogs stray from Slauson into my yard since my letter posted... and I don't think they were connected to the Saturday morning event. So, to all those who decided to take a little more care, thank you. I am not a dog owner myself, but I do know plenty of people in town who do have dogs... most of them are very responsible with their pets. I do think that dog owners in the city (and pet owners in general) should see pet ownership not as a right, but as a privilege (at a legal level and otherwise) and that the more problems there are and the more attention dog owners attract to their disregard for city regulations, the more regulations there will inevitably be and the more the city will feel the need to enforce the rules. So, instead of whining about how un-dogfriendly Ann Arbor is, you would probably benefit more from just making sure that your dogs don't cause your neighbor's any grief... so long as there aren't many problems, the city will feel no need to change it's fairly lax enforcement of what regulations do exist. On a side but related note, I recently had the idea of keeping a few hens on my property. A recent change in city rules allows this, but only with pretty strict regulation. One of the requirements is permission from each neighbor whose property touches your own. Well, I have a big enough lot that there I could probably have a few hens without any of the neighbors even knowing, much less caring... but realizing the sense in this requirement and wanting to play by the rules, I sought permission from each of my 8 neighbors (yes, my plot is that big). It didn't take long before I was denied permission (the second neighbor I asked). They simply weren't comfortable with the idea, in spite of all the regulations intended to keep the hens from inconveniencing neighbors. I realize that it has everything to do with what people are used to (and dogs in the city are far more "normal" than chickens), but dog owners might not want to take their freedoms for granted... especially when the sizes of the dogs sometimes rival those of small horses.

amlive

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:44 a.m.

QUOTE - TheMitten: "dog owners should exercise prudent judgment when allowing their dog off leash."I think that about sums it up. I'm not looking to enforce leash laws to the letter, but have some sense. Know your dog's temperament, be aware of how others not familiar with your dog may possibly perceive it's temperament, and don't assume public lands are your own for packs of dogs to run free in, unsupervised. Personally, I don't really care much if you're playing catch with your dog off the leash in a park field, or they are walking next to you unleashed on the sidewalk. When I'm out in the woods with my daughter however, and a pack of dogs approach with no owners in sight, the rules of the woods are different, and those rules include protection of my family and myself. I'm not going to wait to see if a dog lunges at my daughter - if I perceive a threat, I will react, and am fully within my rights to do so. As a dog owner by choice it's your responsibility to deal with that, and not my obligation to practice excessive restraint in self protection. Just be prudent, and make sure your dogs are under control, and under supervision on public lands. Moose, If you walk with an old, gentle dog by your side down the sidewalk, I've probably stopped to pet it myself (I am in your neighborhood), and find no real problem with it. The case in the Sandra's opinion piece here demonstrates some of the extreme points of irresponsibility and arrogance of some dog owners though, which I've certainly encountered before in Bird Hills. This is what I think owners need to be reminded of, and kept in check.

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 9:34 p.m.

All these militant dog owners who believe their precious animal would never hurt a soul should talk to the woman whose dogs killed two people up in Livingston County a year or so ago. She's doing time, though, so you might have to go through a security check before asking her about it. If you're too lazy to drive Fluffy to the dog park, maybe you're too lazy to have a doggie.

Voice of Reason

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 8:52 p.m.

I hike in stinchfield. I'd be more concerned about the mountain biking club that has taken upon themselves to chainsaw then nail a skull and crossbone club logo on the stumps. They have how much acreage. Yet they insist on kamikazing around the last quiet refuge for hikers. As for the dog issue, groups of more than 4 dogs should not be out of sight/control of their owners. Just as small children should not be out of sight/control. Cats poop in my front garden and kill birds. I had 4 drunk College students climbing the tree in my front yard at 2am. There's a lot of stuff I don't like. But let me tell you, go and try to mace/kick my dog, and I will put the hurt on you. Geesus, get a life. The planet isn't perfect, and it wasn't constucted for you.

TheMitten

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 8:37 p.m.

I think that it is a reasonable request to ask dog owners, such as myself, to abide by leash laws. I also think that when hiking in Stinchfield woods, several miles outside of a town, dog owners should exercise prudent judgment when allowing their dog off leash. I have experienced Ann Arbor as one of the most dog-unfriendly places that I have lived and to extend that air to a tract of woods outside of Dexter certainly solidifies my belief. Yes, dog owners should be responsible, and part of responsibly owning a dog is providing exercise. A walk around town a couple of times a day often does not cut it. To assume that Ann Arborites shun the dog park and flock to wooded areas to unleash their dogs is not only absurd but faulty reasoning. I am also sad that these comments indicate that we have become so distant from nature that we apply rules of a city to the woods.

AAJoker

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 8:03 p.m.

Any idea what it might take to actually get the A2 police to start enforcing the leash law? I'm guessing it's not on horizon as I believe they have eliminated all animal officer positions. Possible we should create a list of trouble areas on this public forum and ask for assistance?

81wolverine

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 6:30 p.m.

I'm a dog owner and dog lover, and I completely advocate keeping your dog on a leash when in any area outside your property where you can encounter other people and pets. To let your dog run rampant in public parks, preserves, and wild areas is completely irresponsible. For example, I've been hiking through the Nichols Arboretum and encountered dogs running roughshod through the sensitive plants and flora which volunteers spend a lot of hours tending. People should NEVER assume that their pets have the right to run wherever they want through public parkland and habitat. It's not just a matter of property rights either - it's a matter of respect and compassion for our fellow citizens and neighbors. No one wants their pet, no matter how friendly or benign we think he/she is to annoy or detract from the outdoor experience of another, do we? Please, keep your pet on a leash and under control when out in public!

Kea

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 6:17 p.m.

The CDC estimates that 368,245 people were treated for non-fatal dog bites in US hospitals and that 2% of the US population are attacked by dogs each year. The threat of uncontrolled dogs is very real.

Sparky79

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 5:48 p.m.

Thank goodness I live in the Upper Peninsula, where walking dogs off leash out in the woods is more tolerated. I'm not saying everyone does it, but I see many more off leash than on when out in the woods. But usually about once a year you'll get some downstate vacationer complaining about it. For instance, a few weeks ago I was at the beach with my dogs (this beach about 10 miles outside city limits, so I was well outside of town), they were running around chasing and wrestling each other, and some guy confronts me about them being "out of control" and how at any second they might bite his child's face off and how his dog is on a leash even out in the lake. One of his family members is standing in the lake with like a boat ore looking like he's ready to whack my dog if he swims out there to meet their dog (this guy yells "Keep your dog away from my family!"). First off, my dogs were under control. Sorry if they like to have FUN at the beach. Second, they paid no attention to his child as they were off running around. Third, seriously, getting ready to hit my dog with a paddle? My dog starts swimming out there barely able to keep his head above the water...what do you think he's going to do, attack someone? Fourth, how many people really leash their dog at the beach? Say you want to play fetch and throw a stick out in the water. What am I suppose to do, keep my dog on a leash and swim out to get the stick with him? Put him on a 50 foot leash? Get real or go back downstate. Likewise, I am also equally amused whenever I do go home to Ann Arbor and see how everyone who owns a dog seems to avoid every other dog owner. Someone mentioned dog socialization, I think I know the problem. If I'm walking my dogs on leash around my parents' neighborhood or around town, literally 99% of the time when I'm walking down the sidewalk one way and someone is coming the other way with a dog, the other person will do one of the following: (a) walk across the street to avoid us, (b) walk in the street around us, or (c) turn the corner and go a different way. Every single time. And I always chuckle. It's silly how afraid dogs owners in Ann Arbor are of encountering other dog owners. Oh, and one more note about socialization, please don't characterize all bad dogs as a result of owners who don't socialize them. One of my dogs isn't the best with other dogs. There's probably only about a dozen dogs he really likes, otherwise he tends to dislike all others (very wolf pack-like behavior). I got him when he was five months old and recovering from a potentially deadly virus that caused him to be isolated from all other dogs for a whole month. When I got him I was told he could be possessive and sure enough he has been. He has been around other dogs since I got him, even taking him to the dog park, but unfortunately that possessiveness has never been able to be broken and can cause him to get aggressive at other dogs. Being around all the dogs at the dog park here probably made his problem worse. He didn't do well there and now I don't take him there anymore. He is very obedient, extremely people friendly, and I can read him like a book and know exactly how he is going to react is situations and most times when I know it's going to be negative I call him over and he'll walk by my side. Might growl at the other dog if it comes near, but I am at least doing my part in keeping him away. But his problems lie much deeper than just blaming it on not socializing him, because I take him on several walks every day where we encounter other dogs and he's had more than ample opportunity to socialize but instead he prefers to keep all dogs away from dad (again, it goes back to his possessiveness...I am his "resource" and he doesn't want to share it with the exception of a chosen few).

mrb79

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 5:46 p.m.

I completely agree with you as well, Sandra. As a pet (large breed dog) owner, I think leaving a dog unleashed, regardless of the environment, is totally irresponsible. Granted, my dog gets excited/aggressive when she sees other dogs/animals, but even if this weren't the case, I would never want to run the risk of something unforeseen happening if my dog were off leash, either to her, other dogs, or people. You are absolutely not in control, even if your dog is extremely well trained.

Blue Daisy

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 5:36 p.m.

I agree 100% with you, Sandra. There are plenty of places in this area to take your dog off leash. They are called DOG PARKS. Last year, a dog came in my backyard off leash ( owner continuously walks him off leash, despite many complaints by neighbors) and tore threw my back door screen to attack my welsh corgi who was looking out the back door. Luckily I was able to grab my dog in time to prevent the other dog from injuring my dog. I don't understand how people can be so ignorant as to think their dog will be as sweet and kind with strangers. You never know what an animal might do that feels threatened or startled. It makes me angry when pet owners only think of themselves -- just another example of people thinking they know better than everyone else and believe they are above the law.

Moose

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 5:08 p.m.

amlive, Make sure you put a sign around your neck that says you're packing heat next time I walk my dog so I'll go to the other side of the street.

Anonymous Commentor

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 4:51 p.m.

This is one of the problems with people owning pets. We do what's convenient for us, and rationalize our behavior. I live near Bird Hills, and I've had many troubling encounters with off-the-leash dogs there. In most cases, the owners have been apologetic and sheepish, but I have no doubt that having seen their dog bark at, jump on, nip etc. other people has not changed their behavior. Dogs need and want to run free, and dog owners will not be inconvenienced by taking their dogs to designated areas where this can happen.

amlive

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 4:06 p.m.

Moose, I don't think I read of anyone suggesting dogs should be fair game for shooting any time they are spotted off a leash. I was referring to areas I've spent time in like Detroit, Flint, and small towns in east Tennessee or Kentucky, where there are significant populations of feral dogs that are a serious threat to the population, especially children. In those cases the animals were a known threat with a history of attacks, and deserved to be hunted just as any predator.So I've learned to be cautious, and if I see a dog or group of dogs that I don't know, unattended, I'm not going to hesitate to take action if I feel the least bit threatened (especially when I'm out walking with my daughter). If such a situation occurred where your dog approached me and my daughter, not on a leash, you were nowhere in sight, did not respond to commands, and I felt threatened and sprayed, kicked, or injured your dog in any way, good luck trying to sue over that. I'd walk away free, and you would be the one who ended up with the fine. As to "parents' paranoia" rubbing off on their kids, I'm not paranoid, but I am realistic and cautious. My daughter loves dogs, but when one we come up to one we don't know I teach here to do the wisest thing - ask the owner if it's okay to pet. If the owner is not around, you don't go near it, because though I may be able to better guess it's temperament, I don't think she can yet, and do not want her to live without a healthy respect of the animals or oblivious to the idea that some can be dangerous. I've owned dogs all my life until I moved to Ann Arbor and I don't think this is the least bit paranoid. So if you want to let your dog off the leash, and you know their temperament well, and you keep them in sight, they follow commands, and they don't rush up to strangers and jump on kids, you may be safe, but you're still breaking the rules. Use your own judgement here. If you let them run free in places where other people may be, especially if they get out of sight or are running in a pack, that's just stupid, and you have no leg to stand on legally or morally in my opinion if someone else feels threatened and takes defensive action. You may know your dog wouldn't hurt a fly, but there's no reason to assume a stranger in the woods surrounded by unattended dogs should assume the same thing.

MR. Language Person

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 3:55 p.m.

Moose, your dog is in your sight, and, as you stated, barely able to move. These dogs were out of sight and apparently quite healthy. After the dog attack reported here a few weeks ago, someone without dog experience-who has no ability to diagnose a dog's intention is well within his rights to pepper spray, hit, or otherwise chase the dog off. I am familiar with dogs, and own one, but if a dog approaches me and I'm unsure, I will call out, "NO." If the dog still approaches, he and his owner may sincerely regret it. It is the owners' responsibilities to keep dogs-even friendly dogs-away from those who don't want the contact, not the others' responsibility to avoid it.

ownrdgd

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 3:49 p.m.

Ya right,buy some chewy treats and try and feed some wild dog as they chew on your hand,real dumb.and read the law (moose) it states that ALL pets must be on a leash when NOT on your property.So I guess that if you sue someone you will lose

Matt Van Auker

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 3:41 p.m.

Amen, brother, could not begin to more fully agree. You get a bit tired, sometimes, of the vicious dog thing.

Moose

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 3:01 p.m.

Anyone who advocates shooting dogs that are off leash as a public service needs their head examined and their guns taken away.

ChrisW

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 2:46 p.m.

We used to let our dog run at County Farm Park, as did 20-30 others on any given evening. Dogs need to run and play. It was great for both the dogs and owners. We need more dog-friendly parks in the area. Rather than pepper spray, bring some chewy treats and make a new friend.

Trevor Staples

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 2:44 p.m.

It's amazing, really. I've seen 50 unleashed dogs at Slauson field on a Saturday morning before. Even when dogs are leashed, owners will let them go into others' personal space (human and otherwise). When I'm walking on the sidewalk and you're walking the other day with your leashed dog, I don't want it sniffing, licking or jumping on me. It's just rude. We do have two dog parks in Ann Arbor. Why did dog owners fight so hard to get the parks if they're not going to use them?

Moose

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 2:43 p.m.

This is a dog whistle issue. AA.com puts it out there so the paranoids and haters will salivate like Pavlov's own dog. I don't see anyone condemning cats that kill wildlife or adolescent vandals and delinquents who cause far more harm to society than any so called pack of wild dogs. A dog attack is big news regardless of the facts yet we essentially ignore the anti-social actions of kids whose parents failed to raise them with common sense and teaching them the difference between right and wrong. My 14 year old (98 in people years) female mixed breed sleeps in my front yard, off leash. Occasionally we walk to the end of the block at sunset, off leash. She greets people on the sidewalk and for the most part people stop to pet her. She can't keep up but she does her best. She walks around the yard off leash, no fence. I'd sue the pants off anyone who pepper sprayed or kicked her. I'd also sue anyone with an aggressive dog that attacked her. Owners know if their dog is aggressive and should control them accordingly. It's not the dogs fault that they're poorly socialized. They don't know the difference between right and wrong as humans define it. They react the way they've been "trained" by their owners example. Owners who believe that their dog can do no harm are no different than parents who defend their own delinquent children. Awww, poor Johnny got bit by that dog after he poked it with a stick. Too bad, so sad. Lucky it wasn't a rattlesnake. Children, particularly small children, act on their parents paranoia and don't know how to treat animals or even their neighbors. It's up to adult parents to instruct their children how to act safely and responsibly with animals they don't know instead of imprinting them with their own paranoia.

Skeet

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 12:58 p.m.

Keep your dog leashed if it looks intimidating or jumps on folks. People who are not familiar with dogs may spray mace or kick the dog when confronted.

amlive

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 12:46 p.m.

I was going to suggest exactly what ownrdgd said. I carry a can in the woods for this reason, and on city streets at night for others. I would not hesitate a bit to spray an unattended dog that approached me if I felt the least bit threatened. The woman who told you Anytime you see a group of dogs running together, you should assume that theyre under control was completely out of line, and in my opinion, living in some sort of strange fairy tale world. When I see a single dog running around wagging it's tail and chasing squirrels, I may be less alarmed, and assume it's simply an irresponsible owner, or maybe one that jumped a fence and got out. If I see a group of dogs running unattended, my first instinct is a pack of feral dogs or strays, and I'm instinctively assuming defensive position, finger on the trigger. I'm used to seeing packs like this from other places I've lived, and in those places the general consensus was that it was a good public service to shoot them when possible. I don't go quite so far as to encourage that, but I certainly would encourage carrying some pepper spray. Even non-feral dogs can do surprising things when in unattended packs. Here's a story of a pack of dogs running together - does the owner thing they should have been assumed as "under control"?http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/09/updated_up_to_5_dogs_involved.htmlSo dog owners should be aware, I walk in the woods, and I carry pepper spray. I won't spray out of spite, or just to make a point, but if I feel the least bit spooked, you can be sure I will protect myself. If your dog gets out of site and you hear some yelping and squealing, don't blame anyone but yourself.

Julie Hathaway

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 12:46 p.m.

"Anytime you see a group of dogs running together, you should assume that theyre under control." In other words, you can guarantee that your dogs won't approach my (leashed) dog to say hello? I hope so, because my dog WILL start a fight with any dog who tries to greet her.

David Briegel

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 12:10 p.m.

Dogs need to run free once in a while. Especially big dogs. These people own these dogs without providing adequate space for them. It is all about the selfish owners. They don't really care about their dogs and they don't care about other people. They care about their status and their trophy dogs! When you surprise a dog in a park they can be be protective, threatened or startled and act differently than normal They need to be leashed. Dog owners need to be held responsible. WE are not responsible for YOUR dog! Our parks and sidewalks should belong to all of us and we should not have to look out for nor be intimidated by any dog. Imagine their outrage if we pepper sprayed their precious fido?

BrianR

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 11:46 a.m.

Anytime you see a group of dogs running together, you should assume that theyre under control. Did she REALLY say that? Unbelievable.

MB111

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 11:40 a.m.

This is a rampant problem. These irresponsible dog owners blame passersbys. They rarely take responsibility for their dogs and always claim "my dog would never bite".

ownrdgd

Sun, Sep 20, 2009 : 11:16 a.m.

Buy a can of pepper spray and carry it with you when you walk.