Keep Saline schools great, vote yes on bond extension
I would like to urge everyone who moved to Saline for the schools to remember that fact and vote “yes” on the Feb. 22 bond extension. We came here for the fantastic, dedicated teachers. We came here for the shiny new high school. And we came here for the first-rate programs and high test scores. We knew when we moved here that great schools cost money and in order to maintain the integrity of what we came here for, we need to vote “yes” on the bond extension.
Without technology upgrades, facilities maintenance and safer, newer buses will our children still get an excellent education? Maybe, but why risk those intangibles; those things that make Saline Schools rise above excellent to exceptional?
Will the enthusiastic, new kindergarten teacher still be there next year? Will our children still have 15 AP classes available when they reach high school? Teachers may be laid off and course offerings may suffer, when SAS is required to pay for unfunded mandates out of the general fund. The federal and state governments require that we have a compliant bus wash system, they don’t really care how many AP classes we offer. I care how many AP classes we offer, I care that the best teachers stay in Saline and I care that all of the items included in the extension can be paid for without my taxes increasing.
Please join me in voting “yes”on Feb. 22. We can pass the extension now with no tax increase and maintain the exemplary school system that we have come to expect.
Patti Tanner Saline
Comments
rosewater
Mon, Feb 21, 2011 : 11:07 p.m.
I am voting NO on the bond extension. Call it what you ...bond/taxes, bottom line is the Saline school district wants more money from ME! I want the school board to stop spending money they don't have and start being fiscally accountable and responsible which includes cutting expenses. Why don't they understand or comprehend the simple fact they need to budget their funds like everyone else which would includes doing with less or going without.
chubabuba
Thu, Feb 17, 2011 : 3:37 p.m.
I will vote YES, because quality education is not FREE and our children/future workforce deserve the BEST and because schools DO NOT receive enough funding --believe it or not. Michigan has great public school systems. I am tired of the negativity towards the most important resources in our state- Police, Fire & Schools....I work in the technology field and it changes dramatically EVERY year and I want to hire workers that know how to use the latest technology. Quit bashing teachers- they get paid very little to spend 8-10 hours every day with YOUR children (or YOUR future workforce) and another 10 hours a week grading your child's work off the clock. It amazes me how little a large majority of our country values public service. It's embarrassing. Why don't you keep your taxes in your tight little wallet and when your kids end up working at a fast food joint, scrubbing floors because they can't use a computer for anything other than video games- don't complain. I'm sure you are the same people who don't care to pay for fire or police service, because your house will never burn to the ground. I love the Saline school system. Our kids get the highest quality college prep classes available in a public school. They offer college credit courses and technology courses so that our high schoolers are ready for the workforce or college, no excuses. Pay a little extra to get this in a public school or we'll have a select minority leaving for the private sector, leaving the poor and middle class behind in failing schools.
WaldenPond
Wed, Feb 16, 2011 : 4:13 p.m.
I would bet that if this bond doesn't pass, you would be hard-pressed to find them when the district is cutting your kids' favorite teachers, classes, extracurriculars, bus drivers, AP classes, athletics, and everything else. They say this is about taxes, when really it's a thinly veiled attempt to gain political clout. They say it's about the union's contract, but they can't say what they see as the problem with it. We all know that the teachers' contract is untenable, given the new economic realities in our state. But they have a contract, and no amount of posturing, yelling, marching, and being obstinate will change that. So, good people of Saline, let's get out on Tuesday, and send a message to these folks that while they are entitled to their opinons, we don't need to be told how to run our schools. Because the only people who get hurt if this doesn't pass are our kids, who don't have contracts. Hopefully, then the pundits will get new hobbies.
WaldenPond
Wed, Feb 16, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.
What I find amazing is that the overwhelming majority of people at these meetings are not even Saline school district voters. They think that they are entitled to tell us what is best for our kids, play politics, advance political careers, act crazy, obfuscate the facts, even though they pay no taxes in the Saline school district.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 3:05 p.m.
Some School Funding Myths - from the Mackinaw Center's M. Van Beek: . #1 The Foundation Allowance Myth The foundation allowance is not simply a grant to each district — it is just one of many school revenue sources. Most districts get about $7,000 per student through the foundation allowance, but the statewide average revenue from all sources is almost $13,000 per pupil. #2 The School Employee Concession Myth School employees on the whole have not saved taxpayers money through contract concessions and have remained relatively shielded from Michigan's economic downturn. Michigan's teachers are the nation's Highest-Paid when compared to state wealth. #3 The Underfunded Myth Michigan school expenditures have nearly Quadrupled since 1960 (adjusted for Inflation!) As measured by personal income, Michigan devotes More state and local tax revenue to schools than _Any_ other state besides Wyoming and Vermont. #4 The Unstable Funding Myth For the past century, funding for public schools has moved in one steady direction – up. Despite some policies that make school budgeting more difficult than it needs to be in Michigan, school funding has proven to be remarkably stable. #5 The Unequal Funding Myth The school finance reform initiated under Proposal A in 1994 significantly reduced funding disparities, and today 80 percent of Michigan school districts get between $7,100 and $7,400 per pupil through the state. Increased federal revenues and other categorical funds have also worked to level historical funding differences. #6 The Class Size Myth Reducing class size is often promoted as a surefire way to improve student achievement. Yet class size has been declining steadily both in Michigan and nationwide for decades with no corresponding improvement in outcomes. And that is just the top 6.
David Parker
Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 3:47 a.m.
Long term debt for short term items. If it passes, Yes no current tax increase, but guaranteed tax increase in future. There is no direct correlation to amount spent on education and level of actual education. If that were true USA would be tied for 1st in education. Unfortunately no where neat tied for 1st.
Basic Bob
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 10:23 p.m.
Oooh, the "bus wash" issue. Too bad SAS didn't join the countywide transportation system, but do you think they will let you use their bus wash? Or you can have a bus wash day with all the high school coaches and athletes coming out with ladders, buckets and rags. And the state mandated kitchen equipment, that is likely to be cheaper than fire damage restoration or outbreaks of food poisoning. Think of it as state-mandated cost prevention, and certainly no different from any other business serving cooked food to large groups of people.
Dobsonion
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 9:33 p.m.
The quality of the schools is the reason I built a house here in Saline. I supported the big millage that built the big HS. My kids got a great education. I want the schools to remain great (partly because I will want to sell my house some day). The millage pitch seems reasonable. However, there's one thing that will make me vote "no." Teachers' benefits have become extremely generous compared to comparable workers in the private sector. They do not pay a meaningful amount for their health care (insurance+copays). Their "defined benefit" pensions are a holdover from the good ol' days. (I'd love to have their health care and pension.) AFTER SEA steps up to help with these runaway benefits expenses, I will vote "yes" to a millage.
mike from saline
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.
I'll vote yes on the bond extension. I [almost] always do. I'll admit, I don't know where every dime is going to go. I guess I'll just have to trust the BOA. Saline Public Schools are outstanding. Students regularlly perform at, or near the top, not only in Wastenaw County, but Statewide, year after year. I think it's a great investment. It pays off in the value of my property. I want the best for the community I live in, and I'm willing to pay for it. Schools outside the Saline School District..... I could care less about. It burns me that any of my money goes to other School districts. Public Schools should be a local issue, not a County, State, or [for God sake, what were they thinking?] Federal issue. The Tax system in this Country is upside down.
Greggy_D
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:48 p.m.
Would someone please post a link to the line-item detail of what the funds are going to be spent on? I'm taking down to the penny. Not some vagarious description such as "Electrical upgrades, security, technology, roof replacements, heating/cooling upgrades, new buses, traffic improvements, and more." (Gotta love the "and more")
David Parker
Tue, Feb 15, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.
try: <a href="http://www.salineschools.com/index.php?view=article&id=529" rel='nofollow'>http://www.salineschools.com/index.php?view=article&id=529</a> application part 2. warn u it long.
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:50 p.m.
I am pretty sure that posting a 1500 page document detailing how TWENTY TWO MILLION DOLLARS will be spent is simply not a practical thing to have up on the internet. If you want specific information (which I might add most people would NEVER take the time to read) you should ask for it rather than using the excuse of not having enough information without ever checking. There are no secrets or conspiracies that I am aware of, and I think if you look into this further you will find that to be true as well.
Greggy_D
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:44 p.m.
I should not have to ask and dig for a detail of what the money is going to be spent on. The school board should supply this information freely and with high visibility. Where is the transparency? Why isn't this information front-and-center surrounded by blinking neon lights on the webpage you linked to? What could they possibly being trying to hide?
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:36 p.m.
I can't answer those questions since I don't work for the schools, BUT as aforementioned, all involved in this campaign have been very responsive to questions and I am sure would address yours if you asked. I think it is important to not jump to conclusions or make assumptions without talking to someone directly involved in the campaign first.
Greggy_D
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
Sorry, your link does not even come close to addressing what I am asking for. It's full of pie-in-the-sky numbers. If you want $22 million from your taxpayers, you better darn well be able to justify it with details, not generalizations. I want to know quantities. I want to know price per item. I want to know man-hours. I want to know the billable rate of the contractors. I want to know EXACTLY what items you are purchasing with $22 million. How many chairs? How many computers? How many pipes? etc... If you can't answer this, you are NOT fiscally responsible and you open yourself to waste and corruption.
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:15 p.m.
<a href="http://www.salineschools.com/index.php?view=article&id=529" rel='nofollow'>http://www.salineschools.com/index.php?view=article&id=529</a> I recommend this link as one to check out for the specific information you are requesting. There are several short videos and FAQs regarding the bond. You can also ask questions via this link and I am certain that you will receive an answer. The district is trying very hard to be completely transparent about this so as to keep the "conspiracy theorists" at bay. I would like it to be known that I DO NOT work for the district and have sat through 4 separate community presentations and feel strongly about the need for this. I deeply regret not having been well informed last time around and not going out to vote for the bond during the last vote. I listened to all of the mis-information out there and hope this time to help promote good information so that the bond can pass this time; or at the very least isn't surrounded only by mis-information that is circulating.
average joe
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:57 p.m.
The voters are entitled to this info proposed by Greggy- The school should demand this from the construction/contractor company who came up with the total amount, and pass it along to the voters, who should hold everyone involved accountable to these figures, if it passes.
stunhsif
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.
I will vote yes on this millage after the school board shows restraint and cost control and gets the SEA to do their fair share. Till then, I'll be voting no once again and I encourage others to not burden future generations with more debt. Good Day No Luck Needed
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:47 p.m.
Wasn't implying that you are ignorant, but it seems that many people are resistant to hearing both sides of the story. It is important in this case to look at all perspectives. As a long time Saline resident you obviously know how important it is that the schools maintain their high level of education and continue to offer all of the programs that they have been. There have been tough times had by all, and the school districts are no exception. I am not trying to sway your vote, but hope to make sure that anyone that reads these responses is able to hear all sides and make their own decision.
snoopdog
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:24 p.m.
@Parent of 3, I gradutated from Saline in 77. Have two children that already graduated, one still in high school and one that will enter the system in two years. I don't appreciate you indicating I am ignorant of the facts. I have lived here since 1972, I know all too well what is going on in this school district and that is why I will be voting no once again as will my wife. Good Day No Luck Needed
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.
I wonder if you have attended any of the school board meetings or information sessions regarding this? Beyond all the propaganda that is out there; these sessions are inordinately helpful in understanding ALL of the issues surrounding the need for this bond. We are the only district in Washtenaw County that has not extended their bond. We are requesting less than most other districts did that have already been approved. It is really important to understand that the SEA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!! The school board can't force contract negotiation; although they have tried multiple times. Again, the SEA negotiations are a separate issue from the bond and it would be helpful if people would stop lumping them together. I would suggest you go on the SAS website and look at the open q/a that is occurring along with a well laid out presentation and elaboration on several of the points. Nobody thinks this is a wonderful thing, and I understand how accruing more debt is scary; but it is a necessity for our schools at this point and the truth is that if it doesn't pass our district is going to suffer negative ramifications.
Topher
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:30 p.m.
I am so fascinated by the split seen in wanting "quality education" but not quite understanding or coming to a consensus as to what that looks like. Offering AP classes does not necessarily constitute quality education, nor does simply offering or introducing technology or "achieving" on state test scores. To me, quality education is hiring competent, intelligent, analytical, and compassionate teachers (and getting rid of those who are not, regardless of whether they are "Saline stock" or "good old boys" or there primarily to coach sports teams and secondarily to teach content). It is about small class sizes (as opposed to over 30 students as in some Saline classes). It is about creating an atmosphere where students and teachers can create meaningful connections and true differentiation can occur. It is about creating a safe atmosphere for all students and teachers (including LGBTQ members of the community). Any school district can tout that they are exceptional (and almost all districts do this - you only have to look at their mission statements to see this), but it takes much more to create an atmosphere where all students can be successful. To me, Saline has a long way to go before they are offering quality education.
Topher
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7 p.m.
I am also all for the bond, because you are right that schools must be financially supported. I just disagree with the opinion of the author of this piece that keeping AP classes, maintaining high test scores, and adding new technology are alone good reasons to support schools. I believe authentic learning is more complex than that.
Topher
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:53 p.m.
@ Parent of 3 in SAS - It's great to hear that you've had positive experiences with teachers. If you haven't already, let the teachers and the school know so that those teachers receive the recognition they deserve. Frankly it's often times the only way administration knows who is doing a good job. I agree with you that class sizes are a result of budget cuts and you are right that it's hard during financial crisis. All we can do as community members, parents, and teachers is to reiterate the needs of students and always consider what is in their best interest in terms of authentic learning. As education has been pushing towards more and more in the direction of factory-style teaching, it's our job to keep schools in check and keep repeating that small class sizes are extremely important to student success.
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:57 p.m.
My three kids have had a combined 16 teachers in Saline and I have thought that every one of them was wonderful. I am certain that someday I will experience one that I don't see eye to eye with, but based on my experience with the instructors, administration and support staff, I find Saline to be a district very open to change and individualized instruction. Interesting that you bring up the 30 kids per class because that is something that has come within the last few years due to necessary budget cuts. I HATE large class sizes; but if we want to see the numbers go down we have to support our schools through this difficult time. One of my children has special education needs and the level at which his instruction is individualized has been phenomenal. I agree that we have a ways to go for the "general population", but it is hard to solve such problems when we are in a financial crisis.
towny
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:26 p.m.
You lost me and many others when the District opened up to school of choice. This was fought for a few years then passed. Oh Well! get the money from out of district tax payers who send there children to saline wonderful schools without paying there share of TAXES due to school of choice. The Saline District has not learned to tighten the belt in these economically strapped times. They always want the best of the best then slap us the district taxpayers in the face with school of choice. How many times are you going to jam down our throats this millage until you get your way how many times do we have to vote NO. I and many others are against this issue because of the above and many more reasons. Vote NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO on this millage.
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.
Did you know that none of the money from this bond will be used to pay teacher salaries? Teacher contracts will be open again next year and I am sure that it will not be an easy negotiation and there is MUCH to be worked out there. While it is agreed that some concessions need to made in these negotiations by the teachers; these two separate issues cannot be made one. The reality is that Saline Area Schools; for better or worse, does not have the budget to purchase necessary items; such as the state mandated kitchen equipment and a bus wash. There are also two busses that need to be retired and replaced. If this bond doesn't pass then the district will need to take money out of instruction to pay for all the above and much more (related to facility upgrades). While it may be true that technology purchased right now will be obsolete in 3 years; that is true everywhere and is not an issue specific to schools. This is the reality of our future. We cannot simply not purchase this year's technology because it will be out of date soon; because to be an effective educational environment the technologies of today need to be incorporated. Again, it is not disputed that taking out more "loans" is not the "best case scenario", BUT this is unfortunately necessary in these economic times in order to keep the schools running at the caliber that has come to be expected by Saline families. It is also important to note that TAXES WILL NOT increase by voting "yes" for this bond. The taxes surrounding this bond will be paid back starting in 2025 at the same level as we are currently paying. We need to be realistic and NOT idealistic in these times and support our community and our schools.
Basic Bob
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 10:25 p.m.
The schools are not really that good if graduates don't learn how to form the plural of bus. It is "buses".
Parent of 3 in Saline Area Schools
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:21 p.m.
Not a game Greggy_D. The fact is that it is NOT an increase, but a stay. You can perceive it how you'd like, but hearing the negativity in your tone is quite disheartening. At the end of the day this bond is going to be critical for Saline moving ahead. The issues and politics behind it don't matter as much as the children getting the most out of their education. Even if it was a tax increase I would support it. With government cuts, we have to be reasonable. Hopefully, with the contracts up for negotiation next year we will see some cuts there too. BTW SAS recently announced that they were able to cut 11.5 million dollars from the currently existing bond SAVING TAXPAYERS MONEY by allowing the current bond to be paid back in 2024 rather than 2025.
Greggy_D
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:15 p.m.
Please stop with the smoke and mirrors semantics. Yes it IS a tax increase in the future when the current bond expires and thus, taxes are set to go down. I can play this game too...... "Saline School Bond Proposal Eradicates Future Tax Decrease"
Don Zick
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
A similar proposal got voted down last fall. I've read there are proposed technology upgrades that are likely to be obsolete by the time they're paid for. Are we asking the next generation to pay for our expenses? I see someone's asked a lot of good questions on the Saline Area Schools budged blog.
snoopdog
Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.
Blah blah blah blah blah ! Your words ring very hollow when the BOA and SEA have done nothing to reduce out of control spending. The parents are sick and tired of getting nickel and dimed to death. It is time for the BOA to bring the SEA to the table and get meaningful concessions ( like having the teachers actually pay a buck or two toward their health care). Till that happens, I don't see a millage passing any time soon. My vote will be a hearty and certain NO !