Oregon39_Michigan7

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 5:07 a.m.

Economics 101 my friend: Increased funding & spending by the government (especially at the local county level) grows the economy. If you'd like to the winter term at Washtenaw Community College is coming up, they offer the course.

jondhall

Wed, Oct 21, 2009 : 7:36 a.m.

OK Democrats another tax increase!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will grant you just one wish and it would be a TAX INCREASE. OK Toto I will give this dog a bone, but in return I want VOUCHERS for all the children of Michigan! The MEA time has come to leave this state, no more TENURE! No more protection from not doing the JOB right, why do you need union protection? Because you are inapt, that is why school of choice, time for a "CHANGE"! Now lets see some real CHANGE, you get the tax increase we get VOUCHERS! the inapt teachers union can not be protected forever!

Tom Bower

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 5:58 p.m.

David Jesse: How about providing some data? Tell us how much tax revenue would be generated by 2 mills in each of the ten "general powers school districts" and each of the nine public school academies in Washtenaw County. Give us district by district figures. Then, alongside, display the amount each district and public school academy will receive from the proposed 2 mill enhancement millage. And, lastly, display each district's and public school academy's current pupil membership count [see http://mdoe.state.mi.us/statusreports/ then select Washtenaw ISD) A four column table should do it. Thank you,

aareader

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 5:07 p.m.

to AA Joker. As a country we should be looking for ways to INCREASE benefits for EVERYONE.. Where does it make sense to decrease benefits for anyone. The game plan for government should to be encourage policies that do just that in the public and private sector.

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 1:31 p.m.

justwondering, Voting "NO" on the millage should force the benefits to be revisited, I say "should" as the AAPS never follows the logical path.

justwondering

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 12:52 p.m.

Re: REALITY CHECK. Not really all that interesting, or too terribly relevant at this time. Yes, it may be an issue. Will not voting for the millage address this issue? No, not at all. If you have an issue with teacher benefits then pursue that issue. I was talking about cause and effect of supporting schools, and this millage, in particular.

justwondering

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 12:40 p.m.

Like it or not, the public school system is a huge contributor to what makes a city an attractive place to live and creates demand for people to want to buy your houses, go to your schools, and patronize your businesses. If you fail to support your schools, your community will no longer be in demand. This millage really isn't that much. If this increase (I see a number of $200 per property tax parcel tossed about) is really too much, then you should be looking at other expenses to improve your fiscal position, like taking the cable package down a notch, or not getting unlimited texting. I know that sounds snarky (sp?), but I really get fed up when I hear people whining about something like this when one of the most attractive features of the area is the public schools - the "golden goose" someone called it - I couldn't agree more!

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 11:48 a.m.

According to this http://www.mackinac.org/depts/epi/fiscal.aspx Ann Arbor was far above Michigan average with spending per pupil in 2007-2008 at $17,386 per pupil vs. and average of $12,286 per pupil. Taking out the bloated construction costs and Ann Arbor is still at $13,012 per pupil compare to Chelsea at $10,126.

AAJoker

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 11 a.m.

dotdash, According to the information I can find quickly, you must have lived in one of the highest spending areas in the country as the average for the US in 2007 was $9600. http://www.census.gov/govs/school/index.html

limmy

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 10:40 a.m.

I agree with dotdash. A couple years ago, a friend had 3 out of state job choices. They chose the job in a state that spends a lot of money and has good schools. Families definitely make choices based on schools. It is a high priority. Schools cost money. Good teachers cost money -- union or not.

dotdash

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 10 a.m.

If Governor Granholm's veto of the $3.7 million for AAPS stands up, and the millage does not pass on 11/3, then the AA schools will be operating on $7500 per student. As a parent who recently moved from a place where the public schools were funded at $13,000 per child, I am extremely worried. If we had known this was coming down the pike, we might not have moved here. You guys who oppose the millage are killing your golden goose. If no one wants to move here, what happens to your property values? You'll lose much more than $200.

beachbaby

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 8:28 a.m.

lisa, i don't think your bullying on how people should spend their money is helping the cause. it's actually having the opposite effect for me.

Tom Bower

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 7:15 a.m.

Lisa Starrfield, You are probably right. However, Proposal A passed in 1994. It's been 15 years. What has WISD and the other ISDs around the state done to change the law so public school academy students would receive general enhancement millage funds? Nothing. That's the point. The ISDs could put pressure on the Michigan Department of Education to issue a favorable interpretive letter that would fix the discriminatory effect of the current law. But, they have shown no interest in doing this. Public school academy students are public school students, they are not second class citizens.

DagnyJ

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 7:09 a.m.

leaguebus has it right. If money leads to better education, the Ann Arbor students should be 25% more educated than other districts. But it's not that simple. I'd like someone to show me data that indicates that spending more money leads to better achievement.

otismyman

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 7:01 a.m.

If I am reading the Freep correctly, Granholm's veto will cost AAPS $3.7M PLUS $165 per child. How ironic considering AA's political make-up. I wonder how many of Granholm voters are happy with her now. Until the state politicians get serious about reforming our government, we will continue to be the laughing stock of the nation - see WSJ journal editorial today specifically on Michigan. It is truly embarrassing.

larry

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 6:27 a.m.

Talking about education, the State of Michigan is not paying it's "Promise" MEAP scholarships to MIchigan college students this year because they are low on money. Promise? Pretty appropriately named.

DennisP

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 6:12 a.m.

The education governor, Gov Granholm, has put in her vote on funding for schools. She vetoed a bill from the Legislature removing $165 per student and ensuring that districts with better schools getting more property tax dollars returned to their higher-valued homes in Dearborn and other communities (maybe Ann Arbor?) will get less back. She backed her veto with the assertion that the Legislature needs to show her where the money is coming from. Very sensible. Well I intend to follow her lead and veto the WISD tax proposal. Until someone can tell me where the money is coming into my pocketbook that enables me to forward it to WISD, then I cannot support this tax. Clearly, WISD is nothing more than a bunch of tax and spend Republicans. Thank you, Gov. Granholm for being a beacon of liberalism... Sarcasm aside, even the Gov. knows you can't milk a dead cow. As for Mr. Martel's property values articles, one citation goes to deadend for some reason. The other goes to a real estate class blog for a study of under 400 homes in one community in Texas and cites statistical regression test values that--at best--are weak. Even the student who did that study acknowledges that it's inconclusive. In good times, schools are a factor. But, look around. The property values collapsed because no one can buy homes. The impact of schools, local venues, etc are limited at best. Most of us will live in the homes we have for many, many more years as a result. I'm sorry, but I just can't afford it any more. I'm at the end of my financial limits.

Jimmy Olsen

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 5:09 a.m.

Lisa - no one is "punishing" the schools - they just need to live within their means just like the rest of us do. Revenue is down, expenses need to be cut. read an economics 101 book. all the time and energy wasted on this should have been directed at Lansing for permanent change. Property values will NOT collapse - more scare tactics. If I was moving and knew a district was managing its finances well it would be on my high list. More scare tactics. Vote NO.

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 2:58 a.m.

Tom, I don't know why charter schools aren't included; I suspect it is because they weren't an issue when Prop A went into effect. Work to change the law but don't punish the schools for it.

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Oct 20, 2009 : 2:54 a.m.

Large? $200 year is large? How much do you spend on cable in a year? on movoes? on soda? on alcohol? And yes property values are down but just watch them collapse if our schools do. Selfish.

Alan Benard

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 11:10 p.m.

Tom Bower... I love the way you spam up these threads!! Please show me the data that indicates non-unionized charter schools do a better job of educating children. http://www.educationsector.org/research/research_show.htm?doc_id=414679 Education Sector: Maintenance Required - Charter Schooling in Michigan "Michigan's charter schools perform only marginally better than the state's urban school districts and well below statewide averages.... It is unlikely that there will be any successful move to increase the number of charter schools that universities can authorize until Michigan's existing charter schools deliver better student performance, authorizers can ensure adequate oversight, and EMOs are held publicly accountable.

leaguebus

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 10:28 p.m.

By the way, I do not subscribe to the mindless Republican drivel of no new taxes for anything. I just don't believe that the new Washtenaw County School tax makes much sense to voters from Ann Arbor.

leaguebus

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 10:21 p.m.

Ann Arbor got $9723 per student in 2009, Chelsea got $7650, Dexter got $7938, and Saline got $7643. It makes no sense for people in the AA school district to vote for this millage. We get $2000 more per pupil than these other comparable districts. I need to be shown how the extra $2000 makes our students 25% better educated than these other districts before I vote more millage.

Tom Bower

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:57 p.m.

Sweetlou you are correct. WISD and the ten traditional school districts as well as the other ISDs in the state have done nothing to attempt to amend the current law that so inequitably excludes public school academies from receiving any enhancement millage funds. Are the public school academy students of less value than those in the traditional ten school districts in Washtenaw County? WISD could advocate for a change in the existing law or for the Michigan Department of Education to promulgate an interpretation of the current law that would eliminate its discriminatory effect on public school academy students.

sweetlou

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:40 p.m.

As others have pointed out, this millage does not include the county's 9 public school academies. According to the WISD, this is because of the state's funding laws regarding charter schools. So the problem here is not the WISD, but rather the legislature's attempt to quiet the teachers' union. There is school choice in MI, but the choices must run on a shoe string. The bigger question here is if charter schools can provide quality education to their students for $7-8K per pupil per year, why do the larger districts need $9-11K per pupil per year? Perhaps all the fat has not yet been cut out of the budgets...

spaceman

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 9:10 p.m.

We need to say no to this tax increase and to any other proposed tax which we, as citizens, have any direct input on. Everyone loves having fine schools, from elementary, into secondary, and on to higher education. However our well educated children get their diplomas and immediately leave the state because there are few prospects for good jobs here. We train the best, then keep the rest. Improve the climate for job creation, and that primarily means removing the burdens on small businesses which create the largest percentage of new jobs in the economy. When we have a strong and growing local economy people will again move to Michigan to live, buy homes and other goods, and raise their families. Good schools follow a good economy, not the other way around.

larry

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:48 p.m.

Taxes are never the long-term answer. Granholm's small-business tax did nothing to help Michigan's economy. It only served to drive businesses out of the state. And I personally know many city retirees that "double-dip" by retiring at about age 52 and then finding another city or government job. All ultimately funded by the tax payer. There is another very simple solution - cut government spending.

Hot Sam

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:39 p.m.

Read my lips...

GoblueBeatOSU

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 8:29 p.m.

here is something to think about...out of over 1,800+ counties throughout the US included in the study, Washtenaw County ranks as the 69th highest for median property taxes paid on homes. Our rank for taxes as a percent of income is 106. Yes, that is right...out of over 1,800+ counties across the entire United States, only 105 counties have a higher tax rate based on percent of income than Washtenaw County. Said another way, only 6% of the counties have a higher tax rate than we do. 94% of the counties have a lower tax rate. Please someone, explain to us how over 1,700 counties across the United States can make it on a lower tax rate as a percentage of income than Washtenaw County? Where are all the tax dollars collected going? What is the goal of this tax increase? Do we want Washtenaw County to have the highest tax rate in the country? My data source.."Property Tax on Owner-Occupied Housing, by County, Ranked by Property Taxes as a Percentage of Home Value*, 2005-2007 Average,".. http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24051.html

antikvetch

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:31 p.m.

Mr. Martle, can you please point out in the articles you referenced where it says "decreased funding to top-notch schools leads to lower property values and a decrease in the quality of the schools"? I seemed to have missed that somewhere....

KeepingItReal

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 7:15 p.m.

Washtenaw Intermediate School District is proposing a county wide millage to support the school districts in the county, except Charter School students will not benefit from the funding...I guess they are not worthy of the support from this millage (you just lost the vote of parents of 3500 students). The Washtenaw County Board of Commissioners is proposing a Millage...Act 88,(this is a misnomer because it does not go before the voters for approval or rejection). Other municipalities in the County are also proposing vsrious millages. The proposed millages, coupled with all current millages that we are obligated becomes quite excessive and I might say costly to the residents of this community. I do not intend to support any of these millages and I will definitely not vote for the commissioner Barbara Bergman who supports Act 88.

David Martel

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 6:18 p.m.

I respect that people are struggling in this economy. Falling property values are certainly not helping. However, without strong public education, property values will decrease even further. I can't stress this enough. Here's an excerpt from a relevant study: "Median home sales prices in ZIP codes with very-high-rated schools were 62 percent higher than those in ZIPs with average schools and more than 92 percent higher than those with low-rated schools. Looking at it from another angle, ZIPs with mediocre or low-ranking schools had median home values below the average for their broader market, while ZIP codes with top-notch schools commanded a 31 percent premium over the market as a whole." Find the entire article at: http://www.cyberhomes.com/content/news/09-08-13/home-value-school.aspx And, here is another showing a similar correlation: http://reae5350.blogspot.com/2009/07/investigating-relationship-between.html

Tom Bower

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 5:20 p.m.

Additional funding for public school students is necessary and it's an investment in our future. However, excluding students who attend public school academies (charter schools which are public schools)from being recipients of any of the enhancement millage funds is a blatant denial of equal protection. The current law needs to be amended, and WISD and the traditional school districts have done nothing to encourage such an amendment. Why? Why sit back in silence and deny public funds to the fastest growing segment of public education in Washtenaw County -- public school academy students? Aren't these 3,500 students as worthy of our investment in their futures as other public school students?

braggslaw

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 4:58 p.m.

Hallelujah... common sense finally.

groland

Mon, Oct 19, 2009 : 4:15 p.m.

Ann Arbor has the highest tax burden of any town I have ever lived in. That includes many east coast communities in CT and NJ. At some point the tax burden will become self-defeating, if it has not already done so. The problem with this community is two fold. Lack of tax revenue from the University and long term obligations for retirees. Why has no one discussed the issue of raising the retirement eligibility of city workers? These outdated rules date to a time when government workers earned less than the private sector. The tables have turned. City worker frequently earn more and certainly have more security than the private sector. We cannot afford to pay health care and full pensions for 52 year old retirees, when everyone else must work to 65 and beyond. i am not suggesting that we have 60 year old firefighters and policemen,; these folks could be shifted to administrative, teaching, and leadership positions. It is way past time to address the legacy issue for city workers.