Speechless

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 12:36 p.m.

True. Rachel isn't warm and generous like that long-haired Glenn Beck guy. The world will be a brighter place when we each have our own blackboard. In fact, if he's not feeling confident in himself, why doesn't Snyder simply hire Beck (and I don't mean the singer/musician) to forcefully debate in his place. Beck would love the chance to defend a tax cut proposal that benefits only business people. That would also compel the financially-strapped Bernero campaign to somehow find the means to hire Maddow as his own debate stand-in, so as to match Snyder's surrogate in media rock-star status. I see national potential for hiring articulate celebrities to conduct candidate debates. It could become a whole new line of work for stand-up performers.

HaeJee

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 10:25 a.m.

I just can't support a candidate that disregards women's right. It says a lot about their character. I have worked in corporate and have met men like Snyder. Because of the level they are at, they are completely out of touch with reality with the common person. As sillytree implied, Snyder will only contradict himself throughout the term he is in office. We had enough of that when Bush was in office

snoopdog

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.

Who is Rachel Maddow? Oh, that angry gal with the short hair on MSNBC. Anyone know what her market share is in her time slot? y guess is ERMG and Briegel are the only two folks in the entire USA watching her show!

braggslaw

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 5:59 a.m.

A few comments on Cap and Trade. A previous poster indicated that this is a national issue and not a state issue. This is completely inaccurate. Cap and Trade will force jobs offshore- plain and simple truth. for Heavy power using industries such as steel or auto(in Michigan) jobs will move to Mexico and/or Asia. The Cap and Trade scheme is a disaster in the making, picking winners and losers arbitrarily, moving manufacturing jobs offshore etc. If people want real CO2 reduction, have an energy tax. The rules will be clear and companies will adapt. The problem is that the far left wants to pick and choose winners.... that is an enormous problem, especially for liberal arts majors wouldn't know the difference between methane and carbon-dioxide.

mike from saline

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:14 p.m.

@briegle Siily? Not hardly! Deadly accurate? You bet!

David Briegel

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:41 p.m.

Rachel Maddow is a brilliant, positive and upbeat former Rhodes Scholar. Not many Republicans know about them. You have to earn them on your own merit. Your Daddy can't give it to you. Can you imagine a Bush or a McCain or a Palin earning anything on thier own merit? Didn't think so. "Logic, clarity and thorough research" indeed! Mike, that was just silly! Ghost, you are da man!! Keep up the good fight!

talker

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

Congratulations for being compared to Rachel Maddow. She's a star when it comes to logic, clarity, and thorough research. Watching her is a treat, though her show is accessible on-line, too.

DonBee

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4 p.m.

I hope you all listened to WUOM this morning where Virg Bernero was on. If you are like me, you had his website in hand when the show was going on. The website - we need graduated income taxes - the interview - "we need to study that". This is one example of where his written text and his spoken word did not match, there were plenty in the call. Most of his answers were "That's a big problem" not "That is a problem and here is how we will tackle it" Too many school districts "that a problem", too many independent universities "that's a problem", cost of college too high "universities have to tighten their belts"...and so it went. My favorite was the discussion of how he reaches across parties in Lansing to run the city. Since it is a single party (Democratic) city council, I am wondering what there is to reach across? I am sure that Rick will do the same thing on Friday. Disappointment on disappointment.

mike from saline

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:31 p.m.

care2comment. You don't get it yet? I'm guessing that most of the pro-Bernero, anti-Snyder comments are posted by public employee's, or they're married to a public employee, or [worst yet!] they're a public employee, married to another public employee [probably raising a whole flock of furure public employee's].....I'd bet on it!

Joe

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 1:30 p.m.

In business, the goal is to make a profit and everything else is secondary. The boss is in total control and the workers don't have any say in how the business is run. Environmental degradation, poor working conditions and unemployment are all tools for increasing profit - is this how we want our government to be run as well? When politicians treat the government like a business, then businesses are given a free hand to make as big a profit as they can at the expense of communities and individuals. I do not want my city, state or country to be run in any way like the undemocratic environment of a corporation.

care2comment

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 12:17 p.m.

Dear Edward Morrow's Ghost: Do you have a real job? cuz if you don't.. why don't you try applying at MNBC. where you can co-host with another snarly liberal commentator: Rachel Maddow.

Technojunkie

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:44 a.m.

@Ghost: www.rickformichigan.com/michigan-talks/campaign-news/07-23-2010-snyder-quest-reinvent-mich-detroit-news Quote: Snyder says he didn't send one job out of the country as chief operating officer. He said decisions were made about outsourcing when he was a minority voice on the board. "There was not a board vote on it. It was not a board decision; it was a management call," he says. End quote. The problem for Snyder is that if he spends time answering this question over and over again he helps to keep the Democrat Big Lie campaign going and takes himself off-message. It's a tricky judgement call. Do you spend time answering phony charges from Democrats who have zero interest in honest debate or stay focused on what you want to do as governor? The more I think about it he's probably right, as usual.

SillyTree

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 7:03 a.m.

@sbbuilder I'm not sure what I said that made you think I was unaware of outsourcing. My point was that Rick Snyder cannot be blamed for the outsourcing of jobs at Gateway because it was the only sound way to protect the business. I related that point to the fact that he runs on a platform that claims he has some sort of great ability to create jobs. The two points are contradictory and that is all I was saying. My comment about the "nerd" issue may have seemed like a cheap shot, but I was really going after something that Rush Limbaugh used to say about the Clintons; that is the fact that Rick Snyder is using symbology over substance. That is all. Additionally, what is a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Is it what the market will bear? People will work just to keep food in their mouths. Is that a fair amount then? Labor cannot be treated as a commodity because labor cannot hold out to the highest bidder. The bidder has the advantage of time. People need to eat. The only way that labor stands a chance is by organizing. Do unions become corrupt. Yes! Does big business become corrupt. Yes! Does government become corrupt. Yes! Checks and balances will always be needed, but labor needs a fighting chance.

talker

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 1:23 a.m.

I went to that site and clicked on the "about us" link. The group excludes regular workers and "mom and pop" businesses, according to the "about us" statements: "The organization is composed exclusively of the chairpersons, chief executives or most senior executives of the states largest job providers and universities,..." Can we believe such leaders that haven't helped in the past? Aren't they the audience that will benefit most from tax cuts and hurt least from service cuts? Somehow, this group's and Rick Snyder's proposals remind me of trickle down economics with the water evaporating before it can trickle down.

G.W. Williams

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:38 p.m.

Agreed. Snyder is the candidate of the Michigan Turnaround Plan (http://www.michiganturnaroundplan.com) and making our state competitive for job growth. Bernero inflexibly does whatever the unions ask him to do. We need to adopt the common-sense, bipartisan proposals of Business Leaders for Michigan in the form of the Michigan Turnaround Plan. Help us get this plan enacted. http://www.michiganturnaroundplan.com.

Veracity

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:16 p.m.

Ghost: Rick Snyder's plans to reduce business taxes by over $1 billion while balancing the state's budget must certainly be accomplished by severely cutting services and increasing taxes on the average citizen. Noticeably, the Rick Snyder campaign machine avoids attacking Virg Bernero's fiscal policies as mayor of Lansing. Apparently, such criticism is impossible to justify when Virg Bernero has balanced five successive budgets in Lansing and without layoffs or raising taxes. In contrast, Rick Snyder has no experience managing government finances. An intelligent voter should give Virg Bernero the opportunity as governor to apply his mayoral budgetary acumen at the state financial level.

DonBee

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 5:04 p.m.

Having read both candidates websites, I do not see anything that makes me want to vote for either one. What Michigan needs is leadership and two parties that will work together. I don't see either of these folks getting both sides to move to the middle a work together. Fixing Michigan is going to make everyone at least a little angry. I feel sorry for the person who finally gets it right. Pensions have to be fixed for the future. Taxes need to be re-balanced so they are more fair to everyone (note; what makes fair depends on which end of the spectrum you are on - which is one of the problems). The first thing that needs fixing is Detroit. If we cannot fix the schools and the jobs situation in Detroit, the rest of the state cannot be fixed. Detroit is a huge anchor on the ability of the state to move forward. Like it or not, Detroit needs to be fixed. Corrupt people need to go to jail, good people need to be promoted, people without jobs need to have work (even make work), people who dropped out of school need to get degrees, children in schools need to be kept there. None of this will be easy or cheap. The State needs to reopen the UP to logging and development, too much of the land is locked up to keep it "wild" and that means no jobs and no industry - towns are dying there and with them is a piece of our economy. Fish hatcheries need to be doubled in size and doubled again. Restock the lakes and reopen fisheries. Stop the asian carp. These are jobs that cannot be outsourced to India or China. Like it or not, natural gas, oil, iron, and other minerals need to be evaluated for extraction. Off shore wind, and on shore wind are both resources we can use, more expensive in today's dollars than coal, but offering a cleaner future and jobs. Issue bonds to fix pipes and roads, with long-term taxes to pay the bonds back. Raise the price of beer and gas by a nickel each and pour that money into matching funds from the Federal Government. The next Governor needs to call our Washington Delegation to Lansing and charge them with getting new labs, roads, and other federal investments in the state. If the Governor is strong enough, we could be the only state that works across parties in Washington too. Unfortunately - I don't see any of this in either website. Unfortunately - I don't see a Governor in either website.

talker

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 3:12 p.m.

The word "business" lacks specifics. Even the term "small business" lacks information since a billionaire hedge fund manager and a struggling house painter are classified as small business owners. Most Michiganders, including small business owners could suffer more from service cutbacks than they'd gain from the crumbs thrown their way. Throwing out terms such as reducing business taxes sounds like the Republican plan to extend tax cuts for those who earn a million dollars a year while replacing Medicare with vouchers that required seniors to pay much more for health care. We have the greatest income gap between the richest and the average worker that we've had since the "robber barons" profited from building railroads with expendable cheap labor. Yet Snyder's proposal would help today's version of "robber barons" at the expense of people whose jobs Snyder and other opportunists outsourced instead of fighting for American workers. I'm not surprised by Snyder's imprecise proposal. I'm disappointed that only one side appeared in print when the journalism I remember learning stressed impartiality.

Veracity

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 2:41 p.m.

Ghost: Rick Snyder's plans to reduce business taxes by over $1 billion while balancing the state's budget must certainly be accomplished by severely cutting services and increasing taxes on the average citizen. Noticeably, the Rick Snyder campaign machine avoids attacking Virg Bernero's fiscal policies as mayor of Lansing. Apparently, such criticism is impossible to justify when Virg Bernero has balanced five successive budgets in Lansing and without layoffs or raising taxes. In contrast, Rick Snyder has no experience managing government finances. An intelligent voter should give Virg Bernero the opportunity as governor to apply his mayoral budgetary acumen at the state financial level.

sbbuilder

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 1:59 p.m.

Speechless Business does not, emphatically, exist for the sake of its employees. It exists to make a profit. Everything else is secondary. If the employees benefit, great. If the employees are satisfied, even better. But, turning a profit trumps all else, otherwise there is no business. A businees owes its employees fair compensation for a fair days work. Beyond that, it owes little else. If you don't like it, then leave, or better yet, go start your own business. Then you will see the pitiful entitlement attitude of potential employees as they apply for positions. I've seen it firsthand, and it nauseats me to no end. Sillytree, Ghost et all: could you guys give the rest of us examples of high tech companies that have not outsourced the bulk of their business? You may as well try peeing in the face of a hurricane. Since the Industrial Revolution, every country that has capitalized on manufacturing has seen a corresponding increase in its wealth. Japan came back from the edge of an abyss to be a major world player. Korea is much the same. Taiwan ditto. Germany is holding the European Union up almost by itself. We just did it better and to a larger scale than every one else. Now China will have its day in the sun. Any country that gives up on manufacturing (don't even get me started on the fiction of a "Service" based economy) will see its star fade over the horizon. Michigan is certainly on the ropes. But, to think that there is a replacement for manufacturing is to seal our fate.

SillyTree

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9:53 a.m.

I have to ask this because I just have not found an adequate answer. What makes Rick Snyder a "nerd." I have no doubt that his academic accomplishments are spectacular, but I only see a bachelor's in general Studies, an MBA and a J.D. None of these are typical degrees of a "nerd." One might think that running a computer company requires a "nerd," but companies are usually run by people who are educated in business and not in the technical aspects of the business product. Mr. Snyder? Do you know machine architecture or are you a programmer? Are you an electrical engineer, physicist, mathematician? Why are you a nerd? It can't just be the haircut, is it?

Technojunkie

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9:13 a.m.

Once again: the outsourcing happened under Snyder's successor at Gateway. While Snyder was in charge, including when he was brought back as interim CEO, Snyder added American jobs and rejected the lets-outsource-everything model. Unfortunately the Democrat big lie campaign is even getting to some Snyder supporters. Snyder is one of the good guys who doesn't blindly follow what they apparently teach MBAs at the UofM business school and other elite universities. He has my vote.

AnnArBo

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9 a.m.

Its amazing to me that government thinks they can somehow legislate manufacturing jobs back into existence. Its a global free market world, and you better get with reality or you are going to be left behind. Attract bussiness you can be competative with, based on sound ecomonics, and support those that are still here. Wake up, low skill high pay manufacturing jobs are gone.

Speechless

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:39 a.m.

"... Right now Michigan needs a businessperson...." Archie & Edith concur: We could use a man like Herbert Hoover again! Didn't need no welfare state. Those were the days! As for point #1, a responsible governor will advocate for trade policies that do not harm working people and which will protect their living standards. It is not her or his job to stand by quietly and smile as jobs are outsourced to almost slave labor conditions in the third world. We do not elect a governor with the idea that they will become a puppet of international corporations. The barely hidden message in the sentence, "Every participant in that market... used outsourcing in order to survive," is that people who work for a living are absolutely, and necessarily, expendable. A modern business owner MUST throw employees under the bus when called upon to do so by current economic trends. I continue to be quite impressed by how stridently owners and managers will argue the case for economic & social revolution. On more of a side note, IBM (especially) and HP have developed poor management and customer service reputations in recent years.

northside

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:17 a.m.

Snyder profited immensely from that "brutal" commodity business. Why wouldn't Bernero raise that as an issue? When blue collar jobs are sent to nations where labor costs are far lower that benefits those at the top of the company. Same production + lower labor costs = higher profits. But fewer jobs in the U.S. Snyder says his business background is what most qualified him to run the entire state. Why do so many people want to obstruct a close analysis of that background?

SillyTree

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8 a.m.

@ERMG Yes, I guess you are right...again.

schultz2005

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:56 a.m.

AMEN for Rick Snyder. Virg thinks Rick can outsource state government jobs. It is not the same as with private industries. I think Virg is going to lose big time. He act so dumb with these ads.

SillyTree

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:14 a.m.

The fact that Virg Bernero uses this against Rick Snyder does not show he doesn't know anything about business. It shows he knows how to campaign. So does Rick Snyder. Rick Snyder claims he can create jobs, but you admit right here that Rick Snyder was not responsible for the loss of jobs. Rick Snyder was unable as head of Gateway to keep jobs in the United States and you say he will also be unable to do so as governor of Michigan because it will be outside of his scope of influence. Yet, Rick Snyder runs a campaign that claims he can bring jobs to Michigan based on his ability to do so at Gateway. Accorging to you he is both in control and unable to do anything. HUH? They use the same tactics, but one of them will work from the bottom up and the other will work from the top down. That is where the difference lies and it has always been so. Which is better? You decide. Which way does your money travel more quickly, up or down?

braggslaw

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:10 a.m.

Exactly, The way forward is to make innovative products without fighting in cellar over commodities. When IBM sold its PC business to Lenovo it was because they saw no return on investment. IBM instead decided to invest its dollars in higher return services. Virg Benero is a Luddite and would be forcing people to use horses so that blacksmiths would have jobs if he lived 100 years ago. He would lead the charge against electricity because gas-lamp lighters would lose their jobs. He would support the clerking unions attempts to ban computers because it would eliminate their hand-written documents. etc. etc.