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Posted on Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 2:50 p.m.

There's no conundrum - children should be allowed to stay with their non-citizen parents

By Letters to the Editor

I disagree with Judge Shelton's comment, "These situations are awful legal and human conundrums." (“Torn Apart: Undocumented immigrants losing fight to keep children who are U.S. citizens,” Sunday, April 15,


Undocumented immigrants are losing their fight to keep children who are U.S. citizens.

Chris Asadian |

If I understand the article correctly, legally Judge Shelton had the option to award Mr.B custody of his children. Unfortunately, the decision was made to coerce Mr. B to give up his parental rights even though he was led to believe that DHS would work with him to obtain custody. Mr. B seemed to be doing everything in his power, against tremendous odds, to show that he desperately wanted his children.

This is a huge miscarriage of justice and Mr. B's parental rights should be reinstated. Did anyone ask the children what they wanted?

The human conundrum doesn't exist. The question that needed to be asked was: What was the decent, loving, kind, and compassionate option?

Under the present "solution," Mr. B will forever be separated from his children, the brothers will be separated from their sister, and the sister will be separated from her brothers. Will someone explain to these children that they have not been abandoned by their father? Will they tell them that the State of Michigan forced their father to sign away his parental rights, and the state then decided to separate the brothers and sister? Will someone tell the children how hard their father was working to provide them with a decent home and how much he loved and wanted them?

Both Gloria and Mr. B's children need to be reunited with their parents. Just because Gloria and Mr. B are not U.S. citizens, and they will not be allowed to live in this country, does not mean they shouldn't be allowed to raise their children.

Christine Parlett


Tex Treeder

Thu, Apr 26, 2012 : 5:25 p.m.

1. They are not "undocumented immigrants." They are not immigrants, therefore they cannot be undocumented immigrants. The correct legal term is "illegal aliens," as compared to "resident aliens," i.e. legal, documented immigrants. 2. One option is for the child to stay with the parent who is in the native country. Why is the only alternative expected to be that the parent moves to the child's location?


Wed, Apr 25, 2012 : 11:42 p.m.

Deport the little buggers with their fine criminal parents. Breaking laws should not be rewarded.


Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.

Keep them together. Deport them all.

Tex Treeder

Thu, Apr 26, 2012 : 6:18 p.m.

The kids are citizens. You may or may not approve of that, but you can't deport a citizen.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 3:59 p.m.

Children of criminals do get hurt. Cause is the actions of the criminal parent, not anyone else or "the system". Deciding to be a criminal, often multiple times, does have consequences and those who believe it should be otherwise need a reality check. We are a nation of laws and rules that provide a framework for civilization. No rules or law and chasos would be the result as everyone does completely as they wish. Think again.

The Black Stallion3

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:30 p.m.

Briegel.....You left wing liberals seem to miss the point all together. If your leader would put into effect a plan that stops these illegals at the border we would not have this problem at all. You liberals never want to solve the problem but are more than willing to throw tax payer dollars to help the criminals. No wonder we have such problems in this country.....lefties and liberals.


Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 2:23 p.m.

..."If your leader would put into effect a plan that stops these illegals at the border we would not have this problem at all." Senor Bush had the grandiose idea to naturalize the millions already here. Do you remember that part of history? President Obama "in my opinion" was correct when he said "some folk's in DC want to re-write history"...

Unusual Suspect

Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 12:10 p.m.

And that's why the proper term for them is, "Undocumented Democrats."

Mike K

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 11:42 p.m.

BS3 - how do you think the left gets votes? One way is to get illegals on food stamps and welfare......... Give me your vote, and I'll give you................. Krugman was at it again suggesting that retired folks don't live off thier 401k's that are earning ZERO interest, but instead living of government payments of social security. More proof that the left gets their votes through the promotion of the nanny state.

The Black Stallion3

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 10:41 p.m.

I agree Unusual Suspect.......I was just trying to be nice. lol

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 4:59 p.m.

TBS3, you're being extremely generous with the word "leader" there.

Michigan Man

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 4:20 p.m.

Black Stallion: The fine people in the State of Michigan are with you. Some in Ann Arbor have not had an original thought since high school - This crowd is so hopelessly out of touch I suppose it is wise to send our condolences to those who need to take care of them. Let's ask Briegel for his address and phone number so we can then steer all the illegals and their associated problems his way since he is so benevolent and seemingly responsive to their needs.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 3:11 p.m.

I guess I'm with both sides. E- Verify should be Federal Law for all employers and we need to do a better job at the known border crossings. Seems the real problem is politicians in both parties care more about the Hispanic vote and Pac money that goes with than our country. Neither party has done squat - so I blame both.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:18 p.m.

I'm a lefty who agrees with you


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:02 p.m.

Ah yes, Briegel ever reflects his insatiate hatred of the evil corporation. Even if we punish corporations and small employers so heavily that there is zero hiring, plenty of illegals will come here to get on food stamps and other forms of welfare. The paramount poster "child" for this kind of abuse? Obama's very own illegal immigrant Aunt Zeituni, who for years has lived in public housing, collecting disability:

The Black Stallion3

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:04 p.m.

Sorry Davey.....You just don't understand.....If you eliminate a problem at the source then you do not have a problem later this really that difficult for you lefties to comprehend? Please get with it before it is to late.

David Briegel

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:50 p.m.

If your friends and neighbors weren't hiring they wouldn't even come here in the first place! And you left out evil liberals! Actually, conservatives and righties are the problem. There, we solved that!


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:20 p.m.

Illegal immigrants are a large proplem in Mi, the financial cost is higher than immigration advocacates are willing to admit .From " Agema cites estimates from the Federation for American Immigration Reform that illegal immigrants cost Michigan $900 million a year. Those costs include imprisonment, as well as public education. Public schools must accept all children, whether they are documented residents or not." For those of you who think there is never enough $ for your farorite project $900 million would go a long way.


Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 1:06 a.m.

Nice article. Here are some other interesting quotes from it: "According to the Pew Hispanic Center, Michigan has among the lowest percentages of undocumented residents and undocumented workers in the country." "Michigan fruit and vegetable growers hire about 45,000 migrant workers each year, many of whom are undocumented. Growers have "given up" trying to get year-round Michigan residents to work the hot, back-breaking jobs, said Denise Donahue, director of the Michigan Apple Committee. A few years ago, growers ran a statewide ad campaign looking for workers. "We got a total of about 12 calls," Donahue said. "And out of those calls, we got two or three workers."" As for the $900 million, the study from FAIR is an interesting read (found at: It makes A LOT of assumptions in the methodology to reach that number. In any event, it doesn't change the point that those here illegally shouldn't be.

The Black Stallion3

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:33 p.m.

You are right outdoor.............let us hope Davey is paying attention. Educate, Educate, Educate.

Dog Guy

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:42 a.m.

A fair number of illegal aliens are here for welfare, criminal opportunities, and the friendly legal system. If we blame employers, do we also blame taxpayers, victims, and Eric Holder's DOJ?


Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 12:53 a.m.

Ignorance is bliss.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 4:57 p.m.

Do I also need to spend a day with a shoplifter, a B&Eer, a graffiti "artist", an excessive lane-changer, a drunk driver, a scofflaw who allows his dog to walk around Slauson off the leash? I don't think so. Judging from the thumbs up, I'd say I have indeed found common points of agreement.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 4:44 p.m.

Suspect: You speak as if you know. I'm not like you. I don't proclaim to know everything. I seek to find common points of agreement rather than parsing words to find disagreement. I agreed with your first comment in this thread and still do. On the other hand, and maybe I'm older than you, I have seen what honest people do when desperate. Out of fortune or grace or both, we are citizens of the U.S. We really don't know poverty in this country. Those who are less fortunate than us don't deserve to be kicked in the teeth, they need a helping hand. Again, if someone is here illegally then they need to leave this country and go through the arduous process of legal entry. But we cannot pretend that we don't know what's going on here. If you want to get rid of illegal immigrants, we all know where they are and who is employing them (at least most of them). I welcome you to spend just one day with them. I did and it opened my eyes.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:11 p.m.

"hard-working" -- but too lazy to go through the process of coming here legally. "honest" -- but sneaking around and forging documentation "Christian" -- For myself, I would have a hard time calling myself a Christian and at the same time intentionally committing trespass and theft (receiving benefits to which I an not entitled).


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.

jcj: You missed my above comment. Those who are here illegally should not be here. I also was clear in the sentence before the one you quoted that this is my anecdotal experience. I'm glad you brought up the other point about honesty and Christianity. I thought about that latter comment a long time and was even going to caveat it with a "not that it should matter". But it does matter and is relevant. We like to talk about this as a Christian country and yet we have a cognitive dissonance when it comes to practicing what we preach. There is nothing in the Bible that says that coming to the U.S. without a visa and working hard to support your family is a sin. So, yes, I stand by the statement that the illegal immigrants I have met are honest. They would rather be here legally and they would rather pay taxes. And they are also more Christian than many of those who proudly go to Church every Sunday. Are you speaking from personal experience with illegal immigrants? The ones I have met are laborers and migrant farmers (no, I didn't hire them). If you want to meet some of the ones I have, go out to the west side of the state next month and you'll see them picking asparagus and other vegetables for your dinner.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.

1bit "The illegal immigrants I have come across are hard-working, honest, and mostly Christian." Lets break down your sentence! ILLEGAL...unlawful, is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law. HONEST... a facet of moral character and denotes positive, virtuous attributes such as integrity, truthfulness, and straightforwardness along with the absence of lying, cheating, or theft CHRISTIAN...I do not have the right or inclination to question someones Christianity. But if you think it is benificial to your arguement to bring Christianity into the fray. You must also accept that Christianity espouses certain attributes.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:49 a.m.

I'm not sure where you got that data, but my (anecdotal) experience is different. The illegal immigrants I have come across are hard-working, honest, and mostly Christian. Most would prefer to be in their home country and most send most of their paycheck home. I've encountered more laziness and reliance on welfare from legal immigrants and "regular" Americans.

David Briegel

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:26 a.m.

1bit, you nailed the whole problem. It is the greed of noble, patriotic American citizens who could care less about our sacred Constitiution, much less our laws, who hire these "illegals". Without penalty! And our "family values" saints continue to break our laws with impunity.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:05 p.m.

Sorry, I don't know any such employers. I don't hang with that kind of crowd. Being a Conservative, my social circle is a bit lopsided on the side of law-abiding citizens.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:01 p.m.

There are some that are ALL talk. But mention that they might be interested in helping with something other than useless dribble and they disappear. If you are willing to advocate for something then as Michigan Man said. Let your actions speak louder than your mouth.

David Briegel

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 12:47 p.m.

No, you can send the bills to the employers, you know, your friends and neighbors who are breaking the law! Thank you very much for that great suggestion! Now, carry on with that great idea!

Michigan Man

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 11:19 a.m.

Briegel: Sounds like we should send all the illegals to your house for food, water, housing, safety, washing machines, etc. By the way, I presume you are also willing to get all the unpaid hospital, physician and social service invoices/bills/statements also? Perhaps you have never learned this piece of wisdom = sermons are better lived than preached. Stop preaching your out of date, politically correct, thoughtless sermons. If you are so oriented toward illegals back it up with YOUR cash.

The Black Stallion3

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 11:06 p.m.

I am all for making sure these illegal aliens never enter the United States of America in the first place. Time for a real change America.


Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 11:54 p.m.

I blame the employers more than the immigrants. The immigrants are searching for a better life and you and I might do the same in their position. However, if there were no jobs, I do not believe they would come here illegally.

Homeland Conspiracy

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 10:36 p.m.

"Sorry kids but your mom & dad came here Illegally & you'll have to go with them for now. But you are more than welcomed to come back when your old enough, maybe by then your mom & dad can file papers to come to the US legally" There are Men & Women fighting for our "freedom" overseas...yet a terrorist could walk over the border. Bring The Troops Home & put them on the border!

Basic Bob

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 10:26 p.m.

It's much easier for DHS and Judge Shelton to treat them like criminals, just like everyone else.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 3:04 p.m.

David- So you are saying that by giving them a job, when they claimed to be legal- is MY fault? I guess since in my experience with E verify, only the hispanic workers failed (Asian, Middle East, African and European immigrants all passed) should I not even hire all hispanic applicants if E-Verify is not used by my current employer?

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:02 p.m.

Of course it's easy for DHS and a judge to treat them like criminals. They ARE criminals. They're here illegally. They broke the law, and they did it intentionally and with forethought. They're trespassers. And Black Stallion, that's a perfect way to phrase it.

The Black Stallion3

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.

Davey.....are you out there? I am looking left but you are too far gone...sorry.

The Black Stallion3

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 10:42 p.m.

Some people are so far in left field they can't see home plate.

Homeland Conspiracy

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 10:38 p.m.

"treat them like criminals" The parents ARE criminals!


Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 9:08 p.m.

I agree with Unusual Suspect. The fact of the matter is that the parents knowingly violated US laws when they either a) entered the country illegally or b) remained here illegally. The fact that they are now undocumented does not take away from this important fact. At the same time, under the US Constitution, anyone born in the United States is a citizen. Illegal aliens should either make arrangements for their (US citizen) children to stay in the country with friends/family OR take their children with them to their country of origin. The children will retain their US citizenship and can come back when they are of legal age to make such decisions for themselves. Its unfortunate that parents are choosing to break a law and make their children suffer for their decisions. Come back legally and the "American Dream" will be available. Stay here illegally, and you will encounter challenge after challenge including the constant threat of deportation and the possibility of having your family separated.


Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 11:50 p.m.

This seems very sensible to me as well. Although your child is a US citizen by birthright, it doesn't grant you the same citizenship if you are here illegally. You should be able to take your child back with you to your native country. Your child will retain their US citizenship.

David Briegel

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 8:26 p.m.

Wow, you guys don't believe in that sacred document, the US Constitution. I guess you should work to have it changed. Why are those employers not being punished?


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 2:53 p.m.

David- As I have commented many times, the employer is following the law. Undocumented workers use fake ID to gain employment, drivers permits etc... E- Verify should be the law of the land.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:32 p.m.

Yet another illogical Briegelism. Notice I didn't say they should be forced to go back. I said they should go back. What kind of parents would leave a child alone here when they're deported? I'd say pretty horrible parents. By leaving the children here, it's their choice to break up the family, not ours. Our laws do not work in a way that we decide to ignore the crime committed just because the consequences would inconvenience the person who committed the crime.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 3:35 a.m.

Oops, I missed the word "precious" as in "...something incredibly precious...".


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 3:34 a.m.

There's something incredibly about citing relevant facts and getting then downvoted. Reality is a hard pill for some to swallow.


Sun, Apr 22, 2012 : 1:08 a.m.

The answer lies in the 14th amendment and is very clear: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." You can even find Supreme Court case law that goes back to 1830, which precedes the 14th amendment, that affirms this view: "Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children even of aliens born in a country while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto are subjects by birth." (Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor). Read more about the issue here:

The Black Stallion3

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 10:29 p.m.

How about doing some investigating and getting back to us with your report? How long do you estimate it will take?


Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 7:41 p.m.

I totally agree with Unusual Suspect. Just because an illegal immigrant gets pregnant in the U.S. doesn't mean they should have citizen status.

Unusual Suspect

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 7:17 p.m.

"children should be allowed to stay with their non-citizen parents" I agree. They should go with the parents back to their home country. Then the family will be together.


Mon, Apr 23, 2012 : 2:09 p.m.

For once...I agree with U. S....and Landes. What a mess...

Stephen Landes

Sat, Apr 21, 2012 : 11:54 p.m.

and as citizens they can return when they are old enough to do so on their own.