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Posted on Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 4:25 p.m.

Report: Washtenaw County's chronically homeless population doubled in last two years

By Amy Biolchini

The number of chronically homeless individuals in Washtenaw County has doubled over the past two years, according to the latest report from the Washtenaw County Office of Community and Economic Development and the Washtenaw Housing Alliance.

Additionally, the number of unsheltered homeless individuals reporting a mental illness increased by 12.5 percent from 2011 to 2013, according to the report.


A homeless camp underneath a bridge on the north side of Ann Arbor checked during a survey of homeless individuals in January.

Amy Biolchini | file photo

The report is a moment-in-time snapshot of the homeless population in the county.

It’s the result of a census conducted Jan. 29 of homeless people found living on the street and the number of homeless individuals living in area shelters at the time.

Surveys of people living on the street are conducted every two years, while homeless shelters track their residents each year.

Chronically homeless is the designation given to people or families that have been without a home for a year or more, or who have experienced at least four episodes of homelessness in the last three years and have a disability.


Courtesy of Washtenaw Housing Alliance

In 2011, the count found 426 individuals living in homeless shelters and 43 individuals living on the streets -- a total of 469 people.

The 2013 count found 344 individuals living in homeless shelters and 166 people living on the streets -- a total of 510 people.

On average each year, 3,000 to 4,000 individuals are homeless in Washtenaw County.

Veterans who are homeless are increasingly finding shelter through area services, as the portion of the unsheltered homeless population that are veterans decreased from 3.2 percent in 2011 to 2 percent in 2013, while the percentage of homeless veterans in area shelters increased by three percent from 2011 to 2013.

Julie Steiner, executive director of the Washtenaw Housing Alliance, attributed the decline to the increased collaboration between the Veteran Affairs Medical Center and shelter programs.


Courtesy of Washtenaw Housing Alliance

Amy Biolchini covers Washtenaw County, health and environmental issues for Reach her at (734) 623-2552, or on Twitter.


Outside(:-o)looking in

Sun, Apr 28, 2013 : 3:05 p.m.

Can we get serious here and ask some important questions? I want to know who makes the best tent for the money? What sleeping bag do they recommend? How do they sleep through the freeway noise? Do they pay taxes on the money they collect at the entrance ramps? Why do they choose to be homeless? This would be good information.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 6:57 p.m.

Homelessness and a disability do we attack both issues at the same time to create a "Chronic Homefullness" (with home) condition? Are agencies that are helping capable of looking at both sides of this coin?


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:48 p.m.

They need to all move deep into the U.P. and live off of the land.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3 p.m.

"If you build it, they will come." I guess it was built and they came.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:26 p.m.

I thought homelessness was only an issue when a republican was in the white house.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:22 p.m.

I'm glad that so many people are looking for more information about the situation involving people in our community affected by homelessness. I offer these clarifications on the story: 1) these statistics are not just for Ann Arbor---the count goes all over the county including in some of the most rural and remote areas. 2) this is merely a snapshot of a particular time...the numbers are affected by the weather as well as where we look and find people 3) our annualized numbers, taken from our sophisticated data base system which is used by all service providers told us that 4,069 people experiened homelessness in 2011 (we are about to release our 2012 numbers). 4) Many of you ask where did people come from--we know the answer: 67% came from Ypsilanti; 30% came from Ann Arbor less than 5% came from outside Washtenaw County. While many people believe that we are a "magnet", the truth is we are them most expensive rental market in the state of Michigan, therefore, we are not a great place to re-settle. If you are used to spending $450 for a 2 bedroom apartment in your home community, the prospect of needing to pay $901 for the same thing here is a bit daunting! If you need more information, feel free to go to the WHA website at

Alan Benard

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:48 p.m.

The State of Michigan tells me that the recession ended two years ago, in 2011. Rick Snyder became governor on Jan. 1, 2011. Two years later, homelessness in our county has doubled. And the AAPS prepares to dismantle public education as we know it. Rick Snyder has managed to run a more destructive and negative administration than John Engler.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 11:39 a.m.

MS doesn't understand that the veterans for the most part have paid their way with the unsigned checks written when they joined the military to protect this great free speaking country.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 10:30 a.m.

Of course the number of homeless in Ann Arbor is growing. Ann Arbor has become a welcoming destination for the homeless. They know they can get free meals and spend their days panhandling on the streets. Residents who go into town are harassed by them while the police look the other way. Summer is coming. Problems are going to increase. The homeless population needs to be encouraged to find another destination.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 1:03 a.m.

The ones that are from here are our problem. But Ann Arbor has been made too welcoming for out of county people (as mentioned in previous stories). The genius city government actually hired someone as chief of police who was dumping off homeless people from Wayne County making the problem WORSE!


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 11:09 a.m.

And the answer starts with you, Barzoom. Start talking with the homeless and encourage them to leave Ann Arbor.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 7:49 a.m.

How many of these homeless individuals are from Washtenaw county? Seems like a large majority are from other counties.We cannot provide for all of SE MI's homeless. It is detrimental to our community to have so many mentally ill and drug addicted people swirling around our streets. I know I would not feel at all comfortable raising a family around these people. Something needs to be done at a state level. We need to reopen the mental health institutions.

Basic Bob

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 1:39 a.m.

Of course there are drug addicted people. And the worst offenders are completely legal alcohol and prescription drugs.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 1:07 a.m.

It's a myth that they were closed solely for financial reasons. The ACLU has a lot to do with it; you can't put away people unless they are deemed a threat to others, thanks to the ACLU. After those changes people had to be let go and without warm bodies the funding wasn't there to keep those institutions open.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:18 a.m.

Something has to be done. There is a school right around the corner from where this picture was taken. Now, they are loitering around the school trying to get in. Ann Arbor Police Dept. better step up and handle this before something happens around the school!!!


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:52 p.m.

"As children are one of the largest demographic groups of people who are homeless" Do you have anything to back this up?


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 11:03 a.m.

As children are one of the largest demographic groups of people who are homeless, there's a good chance that at least one child attending this school is homeless. Want to call the cops on him/her?

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:09 a.m.

There was a zombie preparedness drill last week. I think the same techniques could work on the homeless.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:28 a.m.

Which school is that? How many of them are there? And, what do you expect will happen around the school? And, did you call the police already?

Sheri Wander

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:04 a.m.

I'm glad to see someone took time to put down some numbers. It is far to easy to look away, walk by, pretend, ignore... and I am thankful for those who took the time to to make this happen. Of course we should also be aware that the count happened in January when the rotating shelter and the warming shelter have closed. This means the number of "unsheltered" had gone up. Additionally the housing vouchers provided to some members of the community and former organized, democratic tent city known as Camp Take Notice will start to expire all to soon. Without wrap around services to support them , and many isolated from their community in places without good (or any) bus service many will sadly find themselves back on the streets. Yes, the problem is continuing to grow. We need another camp.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 7:55 a.m.

Put it in your backyard Sheri. Make sure it has over 60+ people with no sanitation, is within feet of a daycare, and houses drug addicts and sex offenders like the last one.

Caleb G Poirier

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:21 a.m.

Thank you to everyone who spent time executing the point in time count! The collection of this information involves walking through dark, damp, hidden spaces. It is tour of all the places that are normally avoided when one traverses a town. These statistics, which are so hard won, are of enormous utility. We, the homeless (my recent state) are grateful that our existence can be described not just with human interest stories but also with hard numbers.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:42 a.m.

The government needs to stop sending humongous amounts of aid abroad and use some of that money here are home. For a country as wealthy as the US, the number of homeless and unsheltered mentally ill is appalling. The US is becoming a 3rd world country. As far as Washtenaw Cty is concerned, there is unlikely to be more funds for homeless populations or the mentally ill populations from the state or local governments. It's just simply not a priority. Homeless and mentally ill don't have a powerful lobby. Wash Cty has become a magnet, with police dropping off homeless arrested in other cities in Ann Arbor. This has got to stop.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 1:15 a.m.

Foreign aid is in more places than just the part listed "foreign aid". There's UN money. IMF bailout money that is asked for every few years. Money in the defense budget. Etc, etc.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:12 a.m.

Foreign aid is only about 1% of the Federal budget. Look closer to home.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:56 a.m.

Agreed. This is evidenced by the fact that, if you are a parent looking for help for your child, it can be VERY difficut to find a child psychiatrist with openings in Washtenaw County. Even with the many excellent facilities in the area. And Fixing this problem goes beyond which religious or political side you are on. It starts with helping and protecting our most vulnerable, the children.

Joe Hood

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:30 a.m.

I always wondered why the homeless have nice tents and bicycles until I found out that St Vincent de Paul saves the really good stuff for those on the street; Coupled with the free breakfast at St. Andrews and the county programs, there is a little cushion for these folks.

Joe Hood

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 12:13 p.m.

Nicholas: Yes, it is cold sleeping in a tent in winter (been there, done that). The hardest part about sleeping out in the cold is to have an insulating layer between you and the cold ground. bobslowson: I agree, it is good for the homeless to have at least something nice. Would be better for them to have everything nice. And I've probably missed a great deal of the others that help out the homeless.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:50 p.m.

God forbid a homeless person should have something "nice".

Nicholas Urfe

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:09 a.m.

About that little cushion - have you ever slept in a tent in winter, during a snow storm? How cold was it?


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:14 a.m.

This article is a kind reminder to the chief of police, the mayor and the city council that summer is on its way !!!

Kai Petainen

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:02 a.m.

That particular location of the photograph is fascinating. If one were to 'zoom out' and photograph the surrounding area, it would create quite a dynamic photo.

Kai Petainen

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 10:26 p.m.

Amy... agreed. Yup, that's why I didn't want to state the exact location.

Amy Biolchini

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:56 p.m.

I would agree with you there -- when I took the photo in January I purposefully kept the shot tight to keep the location private so as not to make the people that live there vulnerable to harassment.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:38 a.m.

Wealth disparity continues to spiral out of control. Pair this story with the one last week about University salaries.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 1:19 a.m.

Well, you could take the money the state gives the universities and use it on the homeless, I suppose. That's the only connection I see. But it usually has to be a tax break to get people riled up that money is being taken from the homeless.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:24 p.m.

whojix- Explain to me in detail how University salaries and homelessness are connected. A nice bumper sticker, but I do not see any possible correlation. People who think there is a finite pie do not understand the economy and I wish they'd stop misinforming the masses. Unless of course, the homeless are actually aspiring University leaders able to do a better job. Might be an interesting experiment. The plot to Trading Places comes to mind...

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:07 a.m.

Hush up about the overpaid University employees. It's not like the state could use the money to pay for education, crime prevention, or easing the burden of homelessness.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:09 a.m.

Everyone should watch the South Park episode "Night of the Living Homeless".


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:01 p.m.

Give them all train tickets to California?

Michigan Man

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:50 p.m.

Another Obama accomplishment? My how people have fallen on hard times during the Obama debacle. Obama will have 8 years of absolutely nothing positive accomplished - Nada, Zero, Zilch of anything menaingful in 8 wasted years under Team Obama.

David Briegel

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:20 a.m.

And that we be on account of all the "help" from the party of NO!


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:47 p.m.

The solution: more bike lanes and art


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:41 p.m.

This month's feel sorry for the homeless update. As usual, the headlines screams about the homeless population doubled in Washtenaw County the last two years. I wonder if it ever occurred to the survey taker to find out if these people were actually from Washtenew County or if they are transients who moved here because the handouts and public sympathy are better than the surrounding cities and counties.

Dirty Mouth

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:41 p.m.

It is an unfortunate side effect of living within a capitalist economic system; a few folks will fall through the cracks (as I start my BMW to make sure it's warm and cozy before I have to go outside).

Robert E.

Sat, Apr 27, 2013 : 3:06 a.m.

I hate BMWs...

Jay Thomas

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:18 p.m.

The county is run by democrats and has been forever. But I know it's the other party's fault.

Jay Thomas

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4 a.m.

Okay, so just to help understand the leftwing psychosis: Municipal level: run by Democrats County level: run by Democrats State level: run by Republicans Federal level: Senate and White House in the hands of Democrats. Responsible party for homeless problem: Republicans at... oh yeah, the state level. That's the ticket. Every branch of government could be (D) and the problem wouldn't be any better; there has been basically the same rate of it the whole time. The only difference is that when there is a (R) in the top job the tv news discovers that people are homeless! When Clinton and Obama had just gotten into office all of those news stories disappeared. So kudos to for running this story.

Homeland Conspiracy

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:27 p.m.

8 yrs of Ronald Reagan 12 yrs of Bush Just to name a few

David Briegel

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:11 p.m.

That is delusional. America is a center left nation being run by a right wing cabal.


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.

Per the NYtimes, the top 7% of Americans enjoyed an income increase of 28%. The other 93% saw an income decrease of 4%. Yep Mr. President, the economy sure has improved - for the top 7% anyway. With some more of that trickle down voodo magic at work, the homeless might find relief around the time the next "liberal" president is elected. Or conservative puppet. It no longer matters.

you can't handle the truth

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1 p.m.

There is a piece missing to this story. Where did these people come from? Are other jurisdictions bringing people here and dumping them because AA provides 4 star accomodations while their jurisdiction can't afford the problem?


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:19 p.m.

@LX - I believe those numbers are for net worth, not income. The explanation being that the higher worth people have more in stocks which have done relatively well. The DJIA is up from ~8400 when Genius W. Bush left office to 14600+ today.

Floyd R. Turbo

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:58 p.m.

Obama in five years has a policy record that is definitely to the right of Reagan. I vote for who is not the worse or stupidest. If you are a candidate obviously behind the curve, I'm not going for you. Lets try to not get ourselves into the End Times prematurely if you know what I mean! Ludicrous candidates from the other party make voting a no-brainer


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:38 p.m.

Maybe could hire a couple of these people and help them get back on their feet. Then write about it, it would be amusing to say the least. I've had dealings with these people and they are very hard workers, at least at getting out of work. And the excusses they give for being late or not showing up to work almost made it worth while.


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:40 p.m.

I have to agree with ormad. Yes, some people are just plain lazy. But, this is a very unfair generalization. And, nobody benefits from being clumped into a "these people" category.


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:54 p.m.

Said no one who understands what the word stereotyping means and the intellectual dishonesty of that practice.

David Briegel

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:30 p.m.

American Exceptionalism. That Shining City On The Hill. America is a christian nation. Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these You did not do for me.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:57 p.m.

What have YOU done, David? or is this somebody else's problem.

Basic Bob

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4 a.m.

David expects someone ELSE to take care of them.

Usual Suspect

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 12:17 a.m.

A lotta hate for America going on around here with some people.

Michigan Man

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:47 p.m.

Maybe Dave wants em all in his backyard?


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:23 p.m.

David, if you want to go that route, I wonder what the political and religious demographics of Ann Arbor are. Since, this article is specifically about Ann Arbor's homeless population. If the commentors on are a true representation, I already know the answer.

David Briegel

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:09 p.m.

In one of the wealthiest counties in America, I'm certain it was the MOST we could possibly have done!

Michigan Reader

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:52 p.m.

Washtenaw County's various social service agencies have done a LOT for the needy in this county.

Tom Todd

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:13 p.m.

how many trillions do we send to foreign countries every year.

Stephen Lange Ranzini

Sat, Apr 27, 2013 : 10:50 a.m.

@Ivor Ivorsen: The final price tag for the endless wars will be between $4 and $7 trillion, actually, though it is true it will not all be paid in one year, but over time.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:50 a.m.

Yeah, we borrow money from China just to send it to other Countries.

Ivor Ivorsen

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:44 p.m.

Easy, the answer is "0" trillions. Per the Washington Post: "Since the 1970s, aid spending has hovered around 1 percent of the federal budget. International assistance programs were close to 5 percent of the budget under Lyndon B. Johnson during the war in Vietnam, but have dropped since." WaPo; "Five myths about foreign aid" 4/28/2011.

An Arborigine

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:57 p.m.

Are there degrees of "homeless", with "Chronic" homelessness being the most homeless? Slightly Homeless, Good 'n Homeless, Seriously Homeless, Fairly Homeless, Critically then Chronically?


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:10 p.m.

missmisery, nothing like a good laugh at the expense of the homeless.


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:08 p.m.

Homelessness is a serious problem, in Washtenaw county and all over the state. Your response, An Arborigine, is funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Jack Gladney

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 10:04 p.m.

I believe the term "chronic" refers to an extended length of time, with "acute" being its antonymous term. One may hear of someone having an acute or perhaps a chronic illness for example. This is probably the wrong thread to comment on budget cuts in our schools.

Michigan Reader

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:17 p.m.

I don't think there are degrees of homelessness, either someone is or isn't. Those terms you apply to homelessness are adjectives. What a sorry state of affairs. The liberal "if it feels good, do it," and the "anything goes" mentality of previous decades hasn't paid off for a lot of the homeless. NOT all of them, though.


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:56 p.m.

Ann Arbor = magnet Homeless = steel Veterans = heros parasites = no deal.

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:42 p.m.

How would you stereotype homeless veterans and children cibachrome? Are they also "parasites"?

Homeland Conspiracy

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 11:20 p.m.

With you I'm not shy to show the way I feel With you I might try my secrets to reveal For you are a magnet and I am steel

Macabre Sunset

Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 8:42 p.m.

You get what you pay for.

Robert E.

Fri, Apr 26, 2013 : 12:11 a.m.

Thanks for clarifying that Jack...I was referring more to overall mental health services rather than psychiatric hospitals per se...I stand corrected on that point...although I do know that when I started my career Engler put the final nail in the coffin...of what was left in the Detroit and metro Detroit area, several faciliites including some psychiatric hospitals that served primarily low income individuals and families were no more. I did not see it as a coincidence that there appeared to be many more homeless individuals on the streets who clearly were suffering from severe mental illness...


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 8:54 p.m.

Robert E. - I know it is popular to blame Engler for shutting down the mental hospitals. I didn't like the man either, but he was not really responsible. The largest mental institution in Michigan, Eloise, shut during the Blanchard years. The Comprehensive Mental Health bill in 1964, and the Medicare and Medicaid Acts in 1965 and 1966, resulted in the transition of mental health patients to general hospitals with psychiatric wings. That pretty much sealed the fate of mental hospitals. A federal court ruled in 1972 that mental hospitals had to compensate patients for the work they performed and whatever institutions were left couldn't really afford it. I know it is easy to stereotype and I know Engler cut funds to mental institutions, but the fact is there was not much left to cut.

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:40 p.m. be so callous?

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:37 p.m.

Who said anything about not lifting a finger to contribute themselves? The point is providing homeless individuals with sufficient resources to have the opportunity to demonstrate responsibility...the rest is up to them. Are you saying we should just ignore the homeless and hope they go away? That results in people, including children, ending up dead. I'm not o.k. with that. The problem with a simplified comment like "You get what you pay for." is that it completely ignores the complexities and realities of homeless individuals and families. How does a statement like that contribute any substance to "the debate"? Isn't it people like you who are "refusing to discuss the issue"? Have you ever volunteered at the Delonis Center? I have. Doing so will illustrate the complexity and reality you so easily dismiss. Age-old and convenient stereotypes of homeless individuals who allegedly "take advantage of the system" may apply to some but I guarantee they don't apply to most. Programs designed to help the homeless DO help. The key is adequately sustaining these programs so they can help individuals and families become functionally independent. Accordingly, these are not simply"blind rewards". They have a specific purpose. However, there may be some in our community who "blindly" choose to provide a person in need with a hot meal or a warm jacket without "requiring anything in return". It's called human kindness and decency. I admit I was unaware that other communities are counting so much on people like me to support the homeless individuals they are transporting here. I need to do a better job then. Can you please tell me where the drop-off station is for the "Ann Arbor Homeless Express" so I can direct people to appropriate resources and shelter? Honestly, does the homeless population in Washtenaw Co. really detract from your quality of life in such a significant way to be so call


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.

and I read that 86.4% of all statistics are made up. ...What's your point.


Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:47 p.m.

The average age of a homeless person here is 9. 9! Furthermore, I've read that 25% of our nation's veterans are homeless. It is shameful how we treat children and vets.

Macabre Sunset

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 5:35 a.m.

Because a debate should be conducted about responsibility. I'm tired of hearing how shelters won't work and family won't work and churches won't work and government programs won't work and still, not one expectation that people should lift one finger to contribute themselves - only make it more difficult to provide anything. Other communities transport their homeless here specifically because they're counting on people like you - people who refuse to discuss the issue and simply name-call those who dare question the wisdom of blind rewards without requiring anything in return.

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 4:07 a.m.

And also...why would one go out of their way to comment on a population their comment clearly indicates they care nothing about unless said comment was meant for nothing other than provocation?

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 3:51 a.m.

How can they invest in the community when they have no home, no money, no family or none that cares, and likely a severe mental illness? Many of those with mental illness were kicked out on the streets when our friend Johnny Engler basically shut down the mental health infrastructure of this state. Are those without the ability to "pay for" their way just supposed to magically make it all better when they have been driven to the point of destitution and living on the streets? And how interesting it is when the same people who were supporting Johnny Engler's actions back then are now astounded that there aren't more mental health facilities available to those who clearly need it when violent gun crime occurs, all the while either fully supporting or doing absolutely nothing to reduce the widespread availability of guns? You know, I imagine some of these homeless adults also might have homeless children, many of whom who are likely traumatized from living on the streets. How do you suggest these children "pay for" their way? We're not talking about providing "everything for everyone". We're talking about providing homeless people and families with a chance at dignity, and also by providing that chance, the potential to fully vest in their community. Howz that for adding to the debate?

Macabre Sunset

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 2:36 a.m.

No, not an attempt to bait. Just that if you try and provide everything for everyone, you will indeed attract people who have nothing vested in the community. It's sad that there are so many people out there who seek not to add to the debate, but merely to name-call those who disagree with them.

Robert E.

Thu, Apr 25, 2013 : 1:27 a.m.

Indeed ordmad...thank you...if people truly feel the way ms does, its a sad commentary...the fact that its the first post on this thread obviously indicates an attempt to bait...


Wed, Apr 24, 2013 : 9:52 p.m.

Similarly the kindness you show others comes back to you. Best of luck.