CincoDeMayo

Wed, Nov 17, 2010 : 12:53 a.m.

And - I hate very much to say this - but I have to say it because of how things proceed these days - the parents are very smart for contacting an attorney before any interview. I don't even like what that teaches a kid! You want to believe it takes a village to raise a kid, but sometimes it takes an attorney to protect a kid.

CincoDeMayo

Wed, Nov 17, 2010 : 12:46 a.m.

Yes, hold kids and teenagers accountable for their behavior and decisions. That is how they learn. However, the consequences for typical, common, mistakes, or, even mis-behaviors, are so overboard these days. Kids can no longer make mistakes without it being a huge ordeal that usually involves the legal system. I'm not even really sure what that teaches them. I don't think it teaches them to look in at themselves and accept that they made a mistake that they need to rectify. The motivation is diminished. They feel like they have "served" the consequence meted out by the school or courts and no longer internalize a sense of responsibility to make amends. I'd rather see kids / teens learn that mistakes do get made and can be moved beyond by making amends and using SELF-discipline. Ricebrnr, you made me laugh. My kids used to have a shirt that said, "THINK - it's not illegal yet."

Julius

Tue, Nov 16, 2010 : 8:36 p.m.

Get over it!!! Showing a knife?!? What's next? Considering a pocketknife convenient gets you fined? This is the thing: Those who would do harm with weapons will find other things to use as weapons.

Sandy Castle

Tue, Nov 16, 2010 : 10:53 a.m.

@keepingitreal - I missed your comment about the parents. My comment wasn't about the parents at all. My first comment was in regards to the commenters calling this 15 year-old a child. I contend that a 15 year-old is not a child and at that age, and having been in a school system for years where the rules are known, would not bring a knife to school thinking it was a-okay to do so. These parents aren't responsible for this teen's actions. They are only responsible for the choices they make in dealing with the situation.

Sandy Castle

Tue, Nov 16, 2010 : 9:29 a.m.

@keepingitreal - I do not have total control over my children and they are far from perfect. I have, however, always held them accountable and responsible for their actions. When you do that then they learn and grow from the mistakes they make. Everybody makes mistakes, it's how you, as the perpetrator or the parent, handle them that is important. When you make excuses for your children's actions instead of allowing them to take responsibility for them you are depriving them of growth opportunities. I would submit that some of the best lessons we learn are from the biggest mistakes that we make.

KeepingItReal

Tue, Nov 16, 2010 : 6:27 a.m.

@Sandy Castle: It amazes me that people who think they are the greatest parents in the world because they have total control over their precious little ones that their child will not do anything wrong. I've yet to see a child who is perfect let a alone a parent who is perfect. I think your implication that this young parents may somehow be at fault is not only arrogant but faulty thinking within itself.

Sandy Castle

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 8:48 p.m.

@Barb, 15 year-olds are NOT children. They are teenagers, young adults. At fifteen they are able to drive vehicles, they often are allowed to stay alone at home, and to watch and be responsible for other children, even to hold jobs. This is an age where if you commit a heinous crime (which this incident is not) you are often tried as an adult. This is an age where they need to be held accountable and responsible for their actions. I have a soon-to-be 15 year-old and she is very aware of her actions, bad choices and all. I guarantee you that she would not take a knife to school unknowingly. She is always held accountable for her bad decisions. We like to call it responsible parenting. That's how you raise a responsible adult. Just think, in around three years, this 15-year old will leave home to go out into the world and be a responsible citizen...or not.

Ricebrnr

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 5:41 p.m.

The greatest weapon ever found on the face of the planet has always been the human mind. Better ban that as well! Oh wait, already taken care of. Never mind.

Barb

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 2:58 p.m.

@Sandy, 15 is not a child? Someone alert the authorities! We need to lower the driving, voting, and drinking ages. Oh, and let's get them in the military! Seriously, if we're going to assume a 15 year old knows enough not to have lapses in judgment (often severe ones), why are we even parenting them anymore? I find that a scary attitude to take.

Elaine F. Owsley

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 12:08 p.m.

Growing up, boys wore high boots that had a place to hold a knife and lots of them carried pocket knives. At the same time, we were of the belief that if you did anything wrong, the teachers would see it, the principle would see it, the neighbors would see it, the police would see it and God would see it and any one of them could tell your parents and your punishment would be meted out at home. Kids were TAUGHT what was right and what was wrong. No one assumed they didn't know which was which. We also stayed out of trouble because of it.

Sandy Castle

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 11:20 a.m.

A 15-year old is not a child and has been in the school system long enough to know the rules unless there are special circumstances where he is unable to understand them.

Killroy

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 11:15 a.m.

I don't carry a knife. No need.

Jim

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 11:10 a.m.

Well as someone who has been through this all I can say is good luck to the parents! The law states there are 4 reasons why it doesn't apply: 1. Didn't know he had the weapon 2. Didn't intend to use as a weapon 3. Didn't know it was a weapon 4. Brought the weapon to school at the direction or with permission of school authorities. It is also interesting to note the law says the blade has to be 3 inches long. There are and have been many cases in Michigan where a student is accused of having a dangerous weapon and then expelled from the entire Michigan Public School system. One reader suggests that the student be expelled and then get counseling. I ask "Then what?". What kind of life will this child have? Without at least a high school education you can't even get a job at McDonalds. This law was written as a reaction to a lot of public outcry over thugs in public schools bringing knives and guns with them. Doesn't sound like a case of a thug to me.

Tom Teague

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 11:08 a.m.

The problem with zero tolerance is that schools abandon proportionality and careless students get expelled and sometimes thrown into the legal system. The problem with proportionality is that schools lose the chance to react swiftly when someone carries a weapon with bad intent. However, given the cases I saw when I googled this topic - a six year old Delaware student threatened with 45 days of reform school, for example, because he used the fork on his camp knife to eat a piece of cake at lunch period -- I lean toward the proportional approach. I agree with @Barb - find some measured punishment that emphasizes the seriousness of breaking the rules: involve the parents, confiscate the knife, possibly even suspend the student. But spare us the spectacle of a pocket knife being introduced as Exhibit A in a court of law.

RJA

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 10:24 a.m.

I don't think there is any need for a child of any age to carry a knife to school. (no matter the size of the knife or age of the student) Apparently the kid that reported it, knows the rules. No weapons should be allowed in schools period. O-tolerance!!!!! If the parents allow the child to have a knife in his pocked at home, fine. But never to school. Any attorney that will say it is OK to carry a knife to school is BS. I do hope he can return to school, WITHOUT KNIFE.

SemperFi

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 10:15 a.m.

As usual, the real issue is about education. Children should be raised to value things around them. Kids should be taught about knives and guns to appreciate their value. My daughter uses knives in the kitchen and when appropriate for a project she might be working on. She has no desire to handle guns. My son has a couple knives(Swiss Army knife & a hobby knife), knows how to maintain them properly and when and how to use them appropriately. He has been taught proper use of guns and has a great respect for their power. When he hunts, he is expected to dress his own game and he's being taught to cook them properly and is expected to eat what he hunts. If the mystique of the unknown is removed, kids will generally treat things with proper respect. If the education is there, the chance of a child handling a knife or gun properly and with supervision, is greatly increased. Any child that brings a weapon to school, after being told that it's not allowed, should be disciplined appropriately. Let's keep the whole scenario in perspective and have the school administrators and parents deal with it reasponsibly.

beaumont_slave

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 10:05 a.m.

I'm not sure what salines policy is, but my understanding is generally it's got to be 3 inchs. Definitly expulsion isnt the answer. what ever happened to the good old days where he would have had to rake the whole school yard.. or wash walls or something physical.

peacegrad

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 9:59 a.m.

Bubble wrap is right. When does the fear stop? When there are no more sharp edges or pointy objects allowed anywhere? Do people not realize that even a pencil could *easily* be used kill someone? A knife is a tool with great utility. They will never be completely banished from our homes, so why do we banish them from school? Has that ever stopped kids from bringing them? Like guns, or any weapon, we should instead be teaching students how to use them safely - or how to defend themselves. (2nd amendment, right?) I've seen studies that showed the safest people in the country to be around are well trained gun owners. On a different note, what does kicking someone out of school EVER accomplish? There are soooo many better punishments than kicking someone out of a school they probably didn't want to go to, or worse, kickign someone out of a school they DO want to go to, because they made a mistake. Especially a mistake that doesn't hurt anyone. If you think that the school is made safe if there are no knives, you are naive. (Study a martial art, you'll quickly realize you don't even need a weapon to do serious harm, real fast.) School is made safe by parents who teach their kids respect for life, self-control, and love of learning and personal growth - teach it by modeling it, not by lip service.

Mr. Ed

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 9:41 a.m.

You are raising victims, teach your kids to stand up to violence. Teach your kids how to fight and defend themselves. Don't raise a bunch of sheep raise wolves.

mlivesaline

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 9:26 a.m.

Unbelievable that some of us seem to know all of the history and facts in this matter. I also think that people who talk tough about "Zero Tolerance" would quickly change their tune if it were their child in a similar situation.

Barb

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 9:14 a.m.

This kid did not do anything violent, nor did it sound like he planned to. Assuming it gets investigated at the school, let the school handle it and a suspension seems appropriate. For it to become a criminal investigation seems like an extreme overreaction to me. Plus, it's not like kicking him out of school will make him a better person. Quite the contrary, as we all know.

antikvetch

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 9:03 a.m.

It would seem prudent to mandate that all children should be bubble-wrapped before being sent to school. THINK of all those nasty corners on tables.

scooter dog

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 8:30 a.m.

Three words Knee Jerk Reaction

scooter dog

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 8:27 a.m.

OK greek god, When you go to your childs parent teacher meeting and carry that everyday pocket knief that 99% of males and god only knows how many women carry in there pocket,then the schools should call the police and have you hauled off for questioning. Get a life,I know of lots of kids who have just what this kid had in his pocket. So the kid made a mistake and opened it up in school,wow big deal Your going to chop off his head for a minior blip

KeepingItReal

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 8:22 a.m.

@Carrie/Greek God: Am I also to assume that war is not violent and does no teach our young that violence is a way to resolve conflict. 'm not saying that there should not be rules to regulate these matters, but somehow it seems that the use of common sense in our daily lives has just gone out the window.

Killroy

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 7:59 a.m.

Two words: Zero Tolerance. We just can't afford to sit by and allow this to continue. The individual that brought the knife to school should be kicked out of school and go to counseling. On a personal note, we have a 4 year old that is currently adding daycare and has started coming home saying stuff like: "Prepare to Die." Or this classic: "I will DIE you." and other rather shockingly bad words and phrases. We are non-violent family and he has not been exposed to any violence at home or is allowed to watch or play any media that even hints at killing or destroying other living animals or humans alike. This stuff is all learned at school, starting at, evidently, an early age. We can't allow this culture of violence to continue in any form at any level of education. As for our son's daycare, if this continues we have threatened to remove him from the environment and send him to a Montessori school with stricter policies.

ChrisW

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 7:40 a.m.

Ross Perot once said, "When I was kid, we all had guns. We just didn't shoot each other with them."

M.

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 7:39 a.m.

The majority of public school students these days sign an agreement with the school to abide by their rules. This includes no weapons...obviously. The case where a boy was suspended for pretending an object was a gun was BS, this however is to the letter of how things should be done. Nobody knows why the kid brought a knife to school, and if he had stabbed your child before anyone found out then you would be complaining that the school should have done more.

Jimmy McNulty

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 6:54 a.m.

It sounds like it was an ordinary pocket knife. I used to carry one to school and still carry one now. I believe if anyone would brandish something like that, they would most likely be laughed at and not be taken very seriously.

Carrie

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 6:48 a.m.

I think you are very naive.

KeepingItReal

Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 6:12 a.m.

While I can understand the concern of school officials about the safety of other students and potential lawsuits if something was to have oaccured, somehow, I just don't see this incident as a malicious one on behalf of the student. If this proceeds into a criminal matter, the student will probably be expelled from school and his education disrupted, he will probably be committed to supervision by the juvenile court, the parents will probably end up paying a lot of attorney fees, and their family life disrupted. Whatever happen to school officials being able to resolve some of these matters in a common sense manner. Why do they have to rely upon outside officials to solve some of these problems. I bet the kid has learned his/her lesson from this incident and will probably never do this again. After all, he is just a junior high school student.