Semi tractor-trailer overturns in Geddes Road roundabout in Ann Arbor

Old Salt

Thu, Aug 9, 2012 : 7:41 p.m.

A Detroit news source gives a much more detailed account as to how the accident happened. In any case it is sad that this young man lost his life.

harry

Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 4:37 p.m.

I love roundabouts. No traffic lights and traffic keeps moving. Took a little bit of getting used to but I love them.

Peregrine

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 11:08 p.m.

@Fat Bill: We should set up a time for @Major to ride with you, as he apparently, "[doesn't] even see how a double trailer semi could navigate one."

Fat Bill

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 10:11 p.m.

I've pulled tractor trailers attached to large wreckers through the Maple Road roundabouts on many occasions without incident...one common factor is that i went through slowly and carefully...tends to keep the wheels underneath where they belong.

Karma21

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:15 p.m.

I am not a huge fan of roundabouts but in some situations they really work. And the Circles at Geddes and 23 have made that much easier to navigate. It was a mess when the lights were still there. My only complaint is that people try to take it too fast which is probably what happened to this truck.

Judi Jones

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:07 p.m.

I appreciate roundabouts. As someone who regularly drives this roundabout (and I drove through there before it was there), I can tell you it significantly improves the flow of traffic here. (When I used to head into A2, dealing with a huge traffic back-up waiting for everyone to turn left to head south on 23 and for Concordia folks to turn turn left was NOT fun prior to this roundabout. Now it's a breeze!) If you don't understand roundabouts, get some info from MDOT. They are simple to use once you understand them. Looks to me like this truck driver took the circle too fast.

Tom Todd

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:26 p.m.

nobody wants to yield or slow down and stop at a light nowadays so we have these, that drivers feel are an inconvenience for them I'd like to see more vehicle activated stop lights that function when a car enters/stops at the red light,for streets that don't have as much traffic as compared to ones perpendicular that carry lots of traffic,to prevent stopping everyone to let maybe one car thru due to timing of a light.

sb

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 7:59 p.m.

I was in the round-about when this truck nearly T-boned me. Not only did he not yield to me, he was going WAY TOO FAST. Had I not noticed that he wasn't stopping, he would have killed me and then tipped over. I saw the whole thing, and as it almost took my life, have a very vivid memory of it. The only reason this driver tipped over was because he was going at least 15 mph too fast. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ENGINEERING OF THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE, and everything to do with an out of control driver.

sb

Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 6:21 p.m.

I'm not sure what you mean, Dog Guy. I was already in the roundabout, so any yielding that was supposed to happen was others yielding to my right of way. The truck did not yield, so I slammed on my breaks, and he went on to roll over all under his own speed/stupidity.

Dog Guy

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 11:35 p.m.

So, sb, you admit to causing the accident by cutting of the truck and refusing to yield to the right of weight.

Peregrine

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 11:04 p.m.

@Paul Taylor: What do you mean "natural rhythm" or "dramatic reduction in speed"? Traffic is merging with traffic on a separate road coming from two different directions. Of course a driver needs to slow down!? If you think that's a "dramatic reduction in speed" you should see the effects of a red light! If this account is accurate, this driver of the tipped truck needs to be ticketed and possibly have his/her commercial license suspended for a while. That much momentum that can cause too much damage to body and property for someone who isn't sufficiently careful.

sb

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:25 p.m.

This roundabout is coming from the highway. Yes, you need to reduce from highway speeds to go through it. I was coming from Geddes (the main thoroughfare) and didn't need to reduce my speed, but he was coming from the highway, and needed to, but failed to do so.

Paul Taylor

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:15 p.m.

If the roundabout requires a dramatic reduction in speed from natural rhythm of the main thoroughfare, at the same time as requiring one to navigate through an arc, then, yes, I would argue that the engineering of the roundabout had something to do with it.

Suzanne

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 7:35 p.m.

Gotta love those round abouts!

Frank Lee

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 7:20 p.m.

Roundabouts are not too small for a set of double trailers. They may have to utilize both lanes while navigating the roundabout but it certainly wouldn't cause a rollover. If you don't fit, you stop. The driver entered the turn too fast and/or the load shifted. I was on scene shortly after it happened. Regardless of signage, you cannot stop a truck from making a delivery. The only thing that can stop a truck is the weight limit on a bridge. Aside from that, the route taken must be the closest route leading from a designated truck route. This may include roads posted as "no through trucks". Roundabouts are great for people that know how to use them. For those that don't, here is a link to MDOT's informational page: http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-9615_53039---,00.html This information should have been sent to every Michigan resident when they decided to use them on our roadways, but is wasn't. Maybe even a quick infomercial would have been called for. I hope it is at least included as part of drivers education today.

John of Saline

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 6:56 p.m.

That's quite a picture. Thanks.

48104

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 6:49 p.m.

Aside from people driving too fast too often, I think a real problem is the over-reliance on GPS/Google Maps without knowing what sort of route you are being led on. I've seen semis trying to cut through the narrow, crowded neighborhood streets near campus, and I'm not talking construction traffic or moving vans -- apparently drivers looking for a "short cut." Then they get stuck -- cars parked on both sides, can't navigate the tight corner. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here, unless it was an emergency double load of gravel going to Glacier Hills.

Ryan Martin

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 6:48 p.m.

A tight round-about would not cause a truck to simply roll over, speed had to have been a factor. Round-abouts are great, they improve the flow of traffic over 4-way stops or traffic lights. People just seem to have trouble grasping the simple concept!

Kate

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 5:36 p.m.

I don't think a tandem trailer should have any difficulty navigating that roundabout. I've seen them make some pretty tight turns. Judging by the scraping marks on the pavement, I'd say he was simply driving too fast. Engineering intersections to be idiot-proof is an impossible chore.

YpsiLivin

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 5:26 p.m.

Meh. It's a Monday thing.

Arbuckle

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 5:13 p.m.

People seem to have trouble driving, period. I can't tell you how many times I've approached a 4-way stop and nobody seems to understand what they're supposed to be doing. These roundabouts are SIMPLE. I think it is funny how many drivers want to blame the road for their driving mistakes.

Ben

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:39 p.m.

Some reporter should probably follow up to find out whether this was simple carelessness or if the roundabouts really are too small for trucks of this size. If the latter, maybe there ought to be signs on US-23 warning truckers not to use this exit.

JRW

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 5:43 p.m.

Trucks ignore signs that prohibit them from various roadways. I see huge trucks on the Huron Parkway all the time and trucks are not allowed on that roadway.

Mick52

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.

I like them but I agree they are often too small and IMHO too many drivers speed through them too fast, as it appears, this unfortunate truck driver did.

JRW

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 5:45 p.m.

The cars I've seen approaching roundabouts don't look in any direction and just hit the gas. Cars entering a roundabout are supposed to YIELD to traffic in the circle. Not happening in Michigan.

Dog Guy

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4 p.m.

Because of the roundabout, the truck rolled over safely.

Ron Miller

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:36 p.m.

The Gedes Rd. round about is and has been a great addition to the busy trasffic at this location. For anyone having an accident at this location, they were doing something wrong. A double trailor should not be on the road. I thought they were illegal in Michigan. Round abouts are great!!

tdw

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:40 p.m.

Ron....I don't care for roundabouts ( unless it's by YES ) . It's double bottom tankers that are illegal in Michigan

AySquared

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:36 p.m.

I wish news articles like this had pictures.

AySquared

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:55 p.m.

Kyle- Thank you for your quick response. If I ever come upon a scene that is news-worthy I will certainly send it to you. Julie- Thanks for the picture!

Julie Baker

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:22 p.m.

We've added a photo to the story.

Kyle Mattson

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:43 p.m.

AySquared- Our reporters and photographers try to get to the scene for photos as often as possible but occasionally that is just not possible to report in a timely manner. If you ever happen upon a photo-worthy scene feel free to send it to us here: http://annarbor.com/up/

JRW

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:27 p.m.

The roundabouts in A2 are a disaster waiting to happen and this morning's accident is the case in point. These roundabouts are far too small for large trucks, and most cars just zoom though without regard for traffic in the circle or traffic entering the circle. I'm sorry to hear about the accident, but there will be more of these to come. Keep building these stupid, unnecessary traffic circles, A2! Send the medical bills for injuries to the city.

Barb

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:56 p.m.

Please. This was an accident that could have been much worse had it been at an intersection where speeds are higher. Compare how many fatalities occur at lights and 4-way stops as opposed to roundabouts. I'll wait here while you research that.

AySquared

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:39 p.m.

I do agree that people need to learn how to use them. I was raised in France, and there are roundabouts everywhere- yet not many accidents... Seems as if many drivers in our community need to retake drivers ed..

pvitaly

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:23 p.m.

One bad thing happens in a roundabout and they're the "worst thing ever." That makes sense.

John of Saline

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 2:45 p.m.

I actually kind of like them. I'd think they'd be good for out-of-the-way 4-way stops. Instead of making everyone stop when no one else is around, just slow down a bit and zip through.

Billy

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.

Here come the round-about naysayers.... They're not really that hard at all....the only people who have trouble with them are people who shouldn't have a license...

Hmm

Wed, Aug 8, 2012 : 5:21 p.m.

I believe Billy addressed those types of drivers when he said "the only people who have trouble with them are people who shouldn't have a license..."

Tom Todd

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:17 p.m.

the biggest problem is most people do not slow down for them, it almost appears they speed up and ignore those already in the round-about.

hail2thevict0r

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 2:30 p.m.

Good thing we keep installing these ridiculous roundabouts everywhere. I hate those things.

leaguebus

Thu, Aug 9, 2012 : 5:32 p.m.

When going to WCC, I get off southbound 23 at Geddes. Until the roundabouts were installed, at the rush hours, I had to routinely stop on US23 and wait 5 or 6 lights to get east on Geddes. Now, its smooth sailing every day. I have never seen an accident on that roundabout and I use it almost every day.

harry

Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 4:34 p.m.

I think they work great. No traffic lights and traffics keeps flowing.

Paul Taylor

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 8:09 p.m.

I agree. I can understand their value in a major city, but in the middle of nowhere (which is the only place I'm seeing them), they do nothing but disrupt the flow of traffic. There is one on Grand River in New Hudson that seems it was dropped there randomly. And, as noted above, it is on such a smaller scale from its big city cousins that it is really difficult for an accomplished driver to properly navigate it alone, much less with distracted drivers all around.

Major

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.

Really? "A Google map showed traffic backed up on Geddes." Where can I find Google "live view"? These round abouts were never supposed to be built in quarter scale, don't even see how a double trailer semi could navigate one.

Major

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 10:29 p.m.

Thanks for the tip on google traffic overlay! How cool!! As far as my comment on smallness goes, I base that on the damage one can clearly see on every single roundabout in AA...missing light poles, bashed curbs, tracks off in the grass...personally I have no problem going through, it's always the "other guy" that mucks up the flow. They are simple, but the drivers in this town....bad news. Peregrine, there is a very huge list of accidents, not with this type of truck perhaps, but I've personally seen dozens of accidents at aa roundabouts. Don't know where to access this info but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

Not surprised

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 10:16 p.m.

major is right, these things are way small. I see a wreck every single day at the three near maple n 14 , busses trucks cars smashing down light poles a real mess in the winter...when I was in the UK they worked fine and they are HUGE!!

Paprika Z

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 7:10 p.m.

Roundabouts are designed this way to SLOW traffic down and to make it safer to navigate an intersection. If there are accidents involving 2 vehicles, they typically hit each other at lower speeds, causing less damage and injury than a typical traffic light. See http://bit.ly/Nkc4n5.

Mick52

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:20 p.m.

Good point Ignatz, I agree. The biggest nightmare around here is the Lee Rd, Brighton triplets with two shopping centers, a highway to choose from and a whole lotta signs with what seems like too many speeders.

justcurious

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.

You are absolutely correct once again. They are all too small.

Ignatz

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 3:23 p.m.

I agree that many of the roundabouts are too small in circumference. It makes it difficult to maintain decent traffic flow since the places where cars and exit are so close together. Upon entering the circle, a driver must guess correctly in a split second as to whether or nor there will be room.

Brad

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 2:30 p.m.

Google Earth also has a real-time traffic layer. Very cool.

Unusual Suspect

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 2:06 p.m.

I believe I over-used "I believe.".

Peregrine

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 1:56 p.m.

Yes, you can turn on the traffic layer in Google Maps, which will paint the roads green, yellow, or red depending on traffic flow. Look in the upper-right corner. What do you mean "never supposed to be". The "modern roundabout" is built at the scale for a variety of reasons, safety being a primary one. The smaller radius slows traffic down, making it safer. So when you say "never supposed to be", do you have a biblical citation in mind? As for whether a double trailer semi can navigate one -- think about it for a second. We've had these modern roundabouts in the area for years, and where is this huge list of incidents with double trailer semis? Just because you are unable to "see" it in your mind doesn't mean it can't happen successfully.

Unusual Suspect

Mon, Aug 6, 2012 : 1:49 p.m.

I believe there are Google maps that have traffic density superimposed on them. I believe the roundabouts should be no problem for a truck like this when navigated at the correct speed.

Semi tractor-trailer overturns in Geddes Road roundabout in Ann Arbor

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