Posted on Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 5:29 a.m.
The Ann Arbor Answer Man: High-quality ingredients account for the price of a Zingerman sandwich
By Geoff Larcom
It’s the Ann Arbor Answer Man, here to respond to the persistent questions that vex us during our otherwise carefree and orderly lives in this city.
Question: We love Zingerman’s Â- its food, service, ambiance and setting. But why does a sandwich cost so much? I just bought a Reuben for $14.50. Add a soda and you nearly got the price of an entrée at some fancy Main Street place.
Answer: So glad you asked, Mr. Scrunchy Logo Face. I was hungry, and ready for some field work.
“We’ve chosen to charge more rather than ruin the flavor or reduce the size of a Zingerman’s sandwich,” the 60-page guide reads. “Over the years, we’ve successfully widened our search for better-tasting sandwich ingredients.”
The guide says the deli actually uses an algebraic formula that enables the business to pay its bills, pay staff, pay management and stay in business while “serving the best possible food to our customers.”
Zingerman’s tells its staff that the profit margins on its sandwiches are 50 to 100 percent lower than the industry standards, because of the deli’s greater costs. “Hardly anyone believes that, but it’s the truth,” the guide asserts.
As part of the research, I split a Number 18, the Georgia Reuben, with my wife. It was indeed delicious, and plenty for both of us. Give Zingerman’s credit for taste, as well as addressing the pricing question head on.
Q. OK, let’s take this inquiry outside. Who’s the man with the clever sayings who plays the washboard and harmonica most weekday afternoons in The Diag? He always puts me in a good mood.
A. That’s Tom Goss, not to be confused with the former University of Michigan athletic director. Goss is a research lab technician in the dental school who says he loves playing in the late afternoon. He told me he gets to work early, at 7 a.m., and knocks off by 3:30 p.m., so he can play for a couple of hours.
Goss, 52, who came to Ann Arbor in 1980 from Chicago, says he plays “for stress management,” venturing out on all but the coldest of days. He’s played in The Diag for the past ten years.
I sat by him for about 20 minutes last week, and watched him draw smiles and stares from dozens of people passing by. “There is no time like the pleasant,” was last Wednesday’s saying.
Q. OK, Mr. Triple A Man, let’s head off campus. For about six years, I’ve driven by the site of the old Shell gas station on the corner of Miller and Maple roads and watched that nice looking building go up in fits and starts. What is going on there?
A. Let’s go to Jim Chaconas, who seems to be involved in nearly every project around town, and is the Realtor overseeing the site.
Chaconas told AAAM to relax, that the building is finally set to open soon. It will be a retail center, which will include a Subway sandwich shop and a pizza place of some sort. There is also some living space.
The building is owned by Bill Lagos, owner of the old Ralph’s Market Building on Packard Street and the building housing the Portofino Coffee Shop on West Stadium Boulevard. Chaconas says construction was held up by litigation as Shell cleaned up some space by the adjacent apartment complex.
Now the building, which Chaconas praises and says “is built like a tank,” will soon be ready to service nearby Skyline High School, among other hungry neighborhood customers.
Q. Hey, good answers.
A. Hey, great questions. See you next week.
Geoff Larcom is a long-time journalist and native of Ann Arbor who writes a weekly column for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at glarcom@gmail.com.
Comments
MS
Thu, Sep 17, 2009 : 3:12 p.m.
Dimo's beats Zingerman's anyday. Anyone who hasn't been there before owes it to themselves to try it out. Plus, the staff there are very friendly unlike that other deli.
Billy
Tue, Sep 15, 2009 : 7:16 a.m.
Who cares if Zingermans is overpriced. Would someone PLEASE get rid of whoever does all the "art" for them? The "people" they draw absolutely creeps me out.
bunnyabbot
Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 6:50 p.m.
z does not pay for health insurance. they do have a plan that you can get it thru them. some employees depending on length of service or position might get theirs paid for, others get it partially paid for and then others not at all. -yes you can get THE SAME ingrediants at other places in A2 for lower prices, BECAUSE? you are paying for the "Zingermans" brand when you go there. (other places around town will even use Zingermans Bread)
cook1888
Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 2:37 p.m.
Z is very good and very expensive. If you don't want to shell out that kind of money or don't have that kind of money to shell out, there are lots of other choices. I would like to know what the definition of a "living" wage in AA is. Also, does Z provide health insurance to their employees or do they offer insurance that the employees can then purchase from their living wage?
Jen Trolsen
Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 1:13 p.m.
Some of the deli's in detroit have just as high quality ingredients for about half the price. as a matter of fact, there are a few places that are regionally famous for there corned beef and ham... Yet you can get a rueben stacked so high that you cant get your mouth around it for $7.00
pegret
Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 11:46 a.m.
Most people I know agree that Zingerman's does indeed use high-quality ingredients and offers a good product, but is waaay overpriced and overrated. Luckily in this area we have lots of options for high-quality decent-priced food, so I very rarely patronize Zingerman's. About the Miller/Maple building...Looks too small to hold a Subway, Pizza place, AND housing? Hope they're not relying on Skyline for lunch business, as they have a closed campus...students are not even supposed to be outside the building at lunchtime!
Jon Saalberg
Mon, Sep 14, 2009 : 7:55 a.m.
I'm not sure where bunny gets the info about "huge payments" to the owners of Zingerman's. Please elaborate. I believe the owners make it pretty clear where the money goes - ask any employees. The owners WANT their employees to understand what it costs to run the business, and distribute materials that explain where the money goes. It's not a secret. I think your explanation is off base, and again, is sour grapes from people who, for some reason, resent Zingerman's success.Also, having a sandwich named after myself and my wife is not an incentive to laud Zingerman's - we do not receive any remuneration for that, and furthermore, I haven't worked there since 1996. On the bread issue, I'm not an expert, but bread pricing is, as with the deli's sandwiches, a cost/price issue - it's related to the quality of the raw ingredients. Those ingredients have gone up quite a bit in the past year or so with the rise in petroleum prices, which add a lot of cost to those raw ingredient prices, via transportation costs. It's also not "free" to transport the bread to customers.
bunnyabbot
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 8:26 p.m.
bruno, the cost of bread, good ingrediants, huge payment to DSE and what the market will bear (the last point goes for everything they sell for the price they do)
bunnyabbot
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 8:19 p.m.
HA! knights is my FAVORITE :)
Arboriginal
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 7:52 p.m.
Good times. Great comments. Go to Knights.
tidge
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 7:31 p.m.
IIRC, the "Zingerman's" bread doesn't use yeast (other than what is airborne!) I'd guess that the sourdough has a 'mother' however. The only complaint I have about the deli prices is this: Zingerman's is obviously sensitive about the prices they charges, but in the years I worked close enough to Kerrytown to enjoy an occasional sandwich, I don't remember an option to simply have a smaller sandwich (IIRC, even 'half sandwiches' were loaded with more meat than I needed). I'd be happy to enjoy a smaller sandwich made from the same fine ingredients, at an appropriately reduced price.
bruno
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 6:56 p.m.
Thanks everyone for the great insight into this ann arbor landmark. Im amazed at the knowledge on this particular sandwich store....but no answer to my question about why the bread is so expensive? if these are higher end ingredients can we know where the yeast and water are purchased? im sure its local because they have booths at the farmers market (which is another comment for another time since why does a store a few feet from a market need a booth to sell the same product???)
fjord
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 4:58 p.m.
It's a pretty easy formula to understand: better ingredients = more expensive = higher price. People who complain about this should simply go somewhere else. My main complaint with Zingerman's sandwiches is that they use all these amazing ingredients, then slap SO much mustard on it that you can't taste anything but mustard. This happened to me again and again over the years (I might get a Zingerman's sandwich once or twice a year) until I finally learned to ask for the mustard on the side. Do this and you'll improve your sandwich experience immeasurably. And why Zingerman's themselves haven't figured out that this is a problem, I'm not sure.
bunnyabbot
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 4:17 p.m.
-to respond to someones comment about complaining about a sandwich. Keep your receipt, if you aren't happy, call and complain. chances are you will get a refund or certificate off your next meal.
bunnyabbot
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 4:15 p.m.
the bakehouse and the deli will each give you 6 free bagels on your birthday.
bunnyabbot
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 4:12 p.m.
Jon Saalburg why don't you also post that you worked at zingermans a really really long time and have a sandwich named after you. and that you met your wife there. -as to the: "Zingermans tells its staff that the profit margins on its sandwiches are 50 to 100 percent lower than the industry standards, because of the delis greater costs. Hardly anyone believes that, but its the truth, the guide asserts." -yes, the PROFIT margin of zingermans is lower. that is because Zingermans pays "Dancing Sandwich Enterprises" a hefty fee every year. "DSE" as it is really ARI and PAUL. Their payment comes off the top first and formost (which goes into their pockets) than the rest of the "costs" associated with the business is paid, if the deli makes x amount of profit than y % of that amount is what is divided up to the employees in "profit sharing" which might only equal $40 a year for a full time employee. (although for several years the deli didn't make a "profit" at all, but Ari and Paul sure got paid). "DSE" gets paid something like 1/2 million for the year (or $250,000 each to ari and paul), of course these are the numbers from several years ago, I am sure their "fee" has gone up. Additionally, "DSE" takes a cut from ALL of the businesses. So figure in total "DSE" gets money from the deli, mail order, zing.com, zing train, the roadhouse, the bakehouse, the creamery, etc. (ZING TRAIN by the way is a load of hooey, they don't even practice what they preach and charge an arm and a leg for). -I worked there, I won't eat there, I made sandwiches, I wouldn't eat one, not b/c of the polictics of the place, the atmosphere, or ingrediants, etc. I (cough) just wouldn't want to eat there (cough,cough) -you can get the same quality food other places for less money. not line the pockets of "DSE" and not be lulled by the zingermans propaganda.
Jon Saalberg
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 3:40 p.m.
Hmm, interesting Zingerman's comments. Jafo04: I don't believe your comment: "if you complain about the sandwich you get more attitude from the staff then one would expect from Blimply [sic] Burger". I've been their many, many times, and know many people involved in the business, and your statement is completely antithetical to their way of doing business, and their respect for their customers. Period. Doesn't ring true. Sour grapes about their success, I think. And yes a2tom, if you use expensive ingredients, it is hard to make a decent margin on your costs. Really. Done costing too, and Zingerman's doesn't make the huge percentages chains make, but the food is nothing like that kind of food. The various comments about portioning are also untrue. As one who worked there, Zingerman's portioning is way more than most any place in town, and if you are wise in your ordering ways, is not more expensive than other restaurants in town.
wavedancer
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 2:41 p.m.
Zingerman's pays a living wage? Hmmpph. I hear they still start all their employees at $8.00 an hour, no matter what position they're working in. In 2003, I interviewed for an office position and the starting wage was $8/hr then. Maybe it's higher now? That is not a living wage. I know folks who work there and they complain about their work environment. Tom Saginaw is a jerk. In this economy a job is better than none, but I would never work for them.
anon505
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.
Zingerman's has premium products with a correspondingly premium price. It makes perfect sense that their profit margin (markup) is lower. Higher wholesale costs typically mean higher retail prices with lower markup leading to higher gross profit and sometimes net profit. I think some of their products are a great value, others not so much, but that is a matter of taste. I have never found any of their workers to be "unfriendly" or "dirty" although some do have long hair. Also remember that Zingerman's pays their employees a living wage and provides health benefits. Overall, I think their prices are fair though sometimes expensive.
Neo
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 10:37 a.m.
Zingerman's Roadhouse is very expensive as well. Here's my "algebraic formula" for their lunch items: Roadhouse Macaroni & Cheese - $9.50 = Rip off Fried Green Tomatoes - $7.50 = Rip off
michigan48103
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 10:14 a.m.
It seems like the store has stok holders and the price of everything there is high so they all can make a profit. The food is not that good to pay so much and the workers are not friendly with their long dirty hair going every where while they are working. If people did not pay the high price the price would get lower or soon it will be bye bye Zingerman's. No other place in Ann Arbor has the high price for food as they do. It is about time people start going to subway, they make their own bread.
a2tom
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 9:22 a.m.
I have been driving by that building everyday for the last 4 or 5 years and it's been a complete mystery until now, thank you. as an aside I don't buy the Zingermans profit margin statement for a second....but if I want the best I should be ready to pay for it. As for the post about Dibellas or Dimos being in the same league....please.
Jafo04
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 9:09 a.m.
I have never understood why people all over Ann Arbor rave about Zingerman's sandwiches. Just another example of Ann Arbor arrogance, they typically make over priced bread with a couple of small slices of meat stuffed between the two huge chunks of stale bread... and if you complain about the sandwich you get more attitude from the staff then one would expect from Blimply Burger(Good food here too) all this for just under $20. I believe that my money is better spent at other sandwich shops around town like Dimo's on Stadium or DiBella's on Eisenhower just to name two. Better parking and much higher quality of sandwiches for a much more reasonable price. I do know that there are other sandwich shops around town these are two examples of good food at a descent price, and if you have any issues with your meal they will make it right for you and not give you a blank Ann Arbor Kerrytown stare like Eve on Top Chef...
ownrdgd
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 8:56 a.m.
you new the price before you bought it,if it was too high why did you buy it?.Sounds like sour grapes to me.
bruno
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 : 8:03 a.m.
did you get an answer on why the bread made is so expensive not to mention its made here locally and should have no transportation expenses in delivery if bought at zingermans bakery?