This isn't the Old West, so don't shoot at people cops are chasing
Unless an officer in trouble asks you for help, it's never a good idea to “help” the police by shooting at fleeing suspects. It's much safer and more helpful to join your neighborhood watch and be a good set of eyes and ears in the neighborhood.
The Ypsilanti man accused of firing a handgun at a vehicle being pursued by the police Sunday night reminds me of an incident that happened 15 years ago and cost a promising young athlete the opportunity to play in the NFL.
It all started on a cold February or March night. The Ann Arbor Police Department's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) was watching a guy who had just gotten out of prison for burglary - he was believed to have switched crimes and was breaking into cars instead of businesses.
This guy was literally responsible for over 50% of the felony crimes in Ann Arbor for the first two months of 1994. SIU surveilled him from his home in Ypsilanti to the south side of Ann Arbor, where he started to break into cars in a large apartment complex.Â
When our uniformed officers tried to arrest him, he led them on a high-speed pursuit; he eventually lost and was arrested. Uniquely, this guy had thrown a gun out the window just before he was captured. Usually guys who break into cars don’t carry guns, but we’d been warned by Washtenaw County Sheriff’s detectives that this guy was next to impossible to surveil and really didn’t want to go back to prison.Â
We were able to watch him, and he did go back to prison—so the first part of that night went well.
While we were going back through a huge parking lot to figure out how many cars he entered or attempted to enter, one of the detectives opened a Jeep with a broken window to look for signs of theft and the registration. Unbeknownst to us, the car was equipped with a remote alarm that sounded in the owner’s apartment. The owner came out on his third floor landing and began firing a 9mm handgun at the plainclothes investigators in the parking lot.
At the time, we thought it was some sort of ambush or emotionally disturbed person shooting at the officers. Those officers were pinned down for 30 minutes in subzero weather until we could safely evacuate them. The suspect was located, and said he was shooting at the guys he thought were trying to steal his $7,000 car stereo.Â
A citizen can’t just shoot at people because they might be involved in a crime.
The suspect who shot at the officers was arrested and later convicted of two counts of felonious assault. Because of his convictions, the NFL didn't draft him - and after serving his sentence, he had to settle for playing in the Canadian Football League.
Citizens can only shoot at someone if they reasonably believe they or someone with them is in imminent danger and all other force options would not be effective. Citizens should never shoot at people they believe might have been involved in a theft or some other sort of non-life threatening crime.
Police officers spend vast amounts of training time in classrooms, defensive tactics gyms, shoot/don’t shoot simulators and firearms range before they're trusted to carry weapons on the street. Police officers know that when they make the decision to pull the trigger, the bullet can't be re-called, and they must live with the consequences.Â
The officer’s decision to shoot may be made in as little as an eighth of a second - yet the officer knows it will be analyzed by countless experts, investigators and lawyers, perhaps for years before a court decision is made as to the legality of the shooting. That's why the thinking officer only shoots as an absolute last resort to save innocent lives or their own.
Most citizens simply don't have the training to make life and death legal decisions about whether to shoot.Â
So the moral of these two stories: Citizens shouldn't shoot at anyone unless they're in fear that they or someone else will be killed or seriously injured.
One last word of caution - if you call the police for help and you have a gun, let the dispatcher know. If confronted by the police, lay the gun down and do exactly what the officer says. If your call for service involves a threat or prowler outside—stay inside with your gun. Don't meet the police outside with a gun in your hand! Â
Remember basic firearm safety.Â
- Treat every gun as if it were loaded.Â
- Always point the gun in a safe direction.Â
- Lock your gun up when not in use.Â
- Never leave a gun unattended.Â
- Firearms and alcohol or drugs don't mix.Â
- Stay proficient with the weapon and know the laws that pertain to it.
- Fire the weapon only in approved areas like firearm ranges, some authorized state land and never in the city unless at an approved range.
Comments
David Felbeck
Fri, Sep 4, 2009 : 2:45 p.m.
Detective Kinsey is mostly correct. However, he does not give due credit to the 11-hour sequence of training that is required of every applicant for a Michigan CPL. The shoot/no shoot training is indeed covered. Further, many licensees have taken advanced courses similar to the 40-hour Lethal Force program taught by Masaad Ayoob. As an NRA-certified instructor, with my colleagues we cover every concern that is listed in Detective Kinsey's essay.
karna
Fri, Sep 4, 2009 : 5:59 a.m.
A very enlightening story, look forward to future blogs.
TruthSeeker
Wed, Sep 2, 2009 : 1:23 p.m.
Good point, what if the person in the car was a deranged elderly who had no idea the police were behind him or her? Or what if the suspect had child in the back? Firing a bullet through a car window while both parties are driving and hitting your target with no problem is very hard to do.....besides you never know what the exact situation is.....oh yeah, never take a bullet to stop a bank robbery, saving fake paper money that can be re-printed is stupid.
Skeet
Wed, Sep 2, 2009 : 11:55 a.m.
If Shante had killed the criminal in the act, he would have been looked at as a hero.
Jen Trolsen
Wed, Sep 2, 2009 : 11:47 a.m.
This brave young hero should be getting a medal... not charges filed against him. He was taking a stand against crime in the community.
Ricebrnr
Wed, Sep 2, 2009 : 9:09 a.m.
"There should be no guns allowed in the city whatsoever." HEY GREAT IDEA!!!! Let us know how that works out with the criminals, ok?
Matt Van Auker
Wed, Sep 2, 2009 : 8:39 a.m.
There should be no guns allowed in the city whatsoever.
Tru2Blu76
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 8:37 p.m.
Richard Kinsey gave a clear explanation of the rights and wrongs of gun use. He added a good story as example. That's all I need to know. I don't need to comment "pro" or "con" re: gun ownership. As for the stupidity of a (very) few gun owners: most of us have heard about NFL football star Plaxico Burress's recent blunder with his gun. Dumb and dumber! This is why such warnings as that given by former police officer Kinsey is necessary: it is not because he doesn't respect responsible gun owners. He's concerned about ignorance of the law and bad judgement. I also want to say, this kind of help is appreciated partly because, many remember, there was a day when police in Ann Arbor and Washtenaw County were "anti-gun" when it came to citizens owning handguns. This town was notorious for that. I noticed it especially: I lived in Oakland County before moving to Ann Arbor 35 years ago. I always wanted to live here - but I quickly discovered how hostile the police (of that time) were toward handgun owners. In Oakland County, I not only obtained my CCW quickly and with no fuss, I was occasionally invited to shooting sessions with local police. Ditto for friends and other family members. But here, I was quickly warned: "Don't even try to get a permit to carry, they don't want any private citizens carrying." So glad to see that has at least "improved." :-) Long live the responsible (sane!) armed citizen.
bunnyabbot
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 4:39 p.m.
Peoples positions should be anti-idiot and not anti-gun. Guns are protected by the 2nd Amendment. That will never be taken away. It is already bad enough that there are more than necessary restrictions on owning one. Furthermore the story Kinsey told was about a guy who got out of prison (no doubt EARLY) and went out to steal from cars (hey, everyone needs a hobby!) not holding criminals responsible for their actions (serving thier prison sentances, or you know EXECUTING ones that should be) causes more distress, harm, expense to lawabiding society and is MORE irresponsible than say the vast majority of non drunk gun owners. Blame the criminals, not the tools of their trade. If that guy had been in prison the cops wouldn't have been out there that night working on that case, they could have put that resource into another case.
dading dont delete me bro
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 4:06 p.m.
oak, the football player made a life changing descision, too bad it was a BAD desicion. now on the should/shouldn't be discussion, i'm done. i'm not going to get into a circular argument about that topic. i'm pro-resposibile gun ownership and i have a cpl/ccw. personally, i would NOT have shot, would not have confronted a punk going through my vehicle as seen from the balcony. done.
Oak2Arbor
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 3:29 p.m.
dading: You said "the story presents a reason why weapons SHOULDN'T be illegal. the guy breaking into the vehicles was armed. you think he really cares what's legal or illegal? just the fact that he was doing something illegal showe that he doesn't care." What else am I supposed to conclude from this? How does this story present a reason why weapons SHOULDN'T be illegal? If the football player didn't have a gun and/or called the police initially his life/career may have turned out differently. It has nothing to do with the "perp". It was the football player mistakenly shooting at the cops. Again one phone call could have prevented all this.
djm12652
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 2:47 p.m.
Does Det. Kinsey [AAPD Ret'd] truly believe that those of us who own weapons legally are that irresponsible and ignorant of the laws pertaining to weapons usage? And how promising can anyone be when they're as dumb as the box the rocks came in like "the former football player"; let's hope neither of the shooters in the nice little story [not news] above have not procreated and diluted the gene pool.
dading dont delete me bro
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 2:06 p.m.
Oak2arbor, you tell me where my statement justifies the jeep owner shooting? it doesn't. i have a cpl/ccw. any RESPONSIBLE permit holder WOULD NOT confront this perp. there is a difference of when life is being threatend and when property is being taken. clearly the later was here. -dading!
DanielF
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 1:30 p.m.
hahaha... Shonte Peoples was a classmate of mine!!! Oak2arbor, handguns will never be made illegal, not even an Obama Admin would dare to pass such a ban.
Rici
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 12:13 p.m.
A $7000 car **stereo**?? I've never even paid that much for a car! No wait, we did once buy a brand new vehicle, early 90s. Maybe it cost that much. But except for that one time...
ypsiRK
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 12:13 p.m.
This such a non-needed story. I happens once, with a drunk guy and now we need to tell everyone not to do that? Are we that stupid?
1201SouthMain
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 11:54 a.m.
Shante "I'll take out you and your" Peoples
cinnabar7071
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 11:30 a.m.
"Police officers spend vast amounts of training time in classrooms, defensive tactics gyms, shoot/dont shoot simulators and firearms range before they're trusted to carry weapons on the street." All this training still doesn't mean squat, anybody remember the van full of sheriff duputies that shot at the big tire on I-94 on the way back from a tigers game? Anybody ever watch a police video were hundrens of runs are fired and they don't hit a thing. It's all about job security, if we were able to protect ourselves crime would drop over night, and we would have to find other uses for our prisons.
Oak2Arbor
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 11:14 a.m.
dading, Again, this is why you call the police, not take matters in to your own hands. No property is worth a life. Your statement would justify the Jeep owner shooting at the cops because he thought they were breaking into his vehicle. If he had called the police first than everything would have been cleared up before shots were fired.
dading dont delete me bro
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 11:01 a.m.
oak2annarbor, the story presents a reason why weapons SHOULDN'T be illegal. the guy breaking into the vehicles was armed. you think he really cares what's legal or illegal? just the fact that he was doing something illegal showe that he doesn't care.
dading dont delete me bro
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 10:58 a.m.
very well stated.
Oak2Arbor
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 10:46 a.m.
Thanks for yet another example of why handguns should be illegal! Why wouldn't the Jeep owner have just called the police. This is what a reasonably intelligent person would do. Maybe there should be some sort of an intelligence test before one can purchase a firearm. p.s On a lighter note; Was the jab to the CFL really necessary?
a2grateful
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 9:59 a.m.
PS You are right... it's not the old west... it's the Old West Side!
a2grateful
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 9:47 a.m.
Thanks Officer Kinsey for your words of wisdom... and the 1990s story account from the wild (mid)west.... Thankfully, all the people involved in both stories lived to walk away, despite the gun lunacy.... Finally, thank you for your career in public service as a police officer!... Best in your retirement...
DanielF
Tue, Sep 1, 2009 : 9:39 a.m.
Good points, Det Kinsey. Only thin gis this- most folks who are responsible gun owners, or are CCW permit holders would know better than to open fire in the general direction of his car, like the football player did. That person wasnt a good representative o fthe gun-owning community.