OverTaxed

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 9:47 p.m.

As I drive around Ann Arbor, I see plenty of Vote YES signs in the street that are not removed by the police that must drive by them every day. What does that say for the incident? As for daizyk70, do you even pay property taxes? Our taxes are already too high. You can pay the extra money, just donate it, as should the other parents of children. It's an easy fix, parents just pay the difference per child. It is a small sum to pay for your own kids, don't make me pay it. As for the cuts, Granholm is up to her poor management tricks again. Let's cut schools just before millages get voted on, then the bleeding hearts will pick up what I cut. So I get hit twice, my taxes have not gone down and I have to make up the cut difference, no way. She would have been fired long ago if you Dems would have opened your eyes. Bush may have been doing a bad job, but so was she. They both needed to go and you kept her around, look at us now! Let's look at another school and do a comparison. Rochester Hills spends $30M less than Ann Arbor, has roughly the same number of kids, and blows away our ranking, coming in 50 schools better. There are other examples, just go out and look for yourself. You are not so smart if you only listen to the propaganda. Money does not educate a child! It takes an education to spend wisely, a government to waste.

Andrew Thomas

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 11:33 a.m.

A2MomX3 Good post, thank you for acknowledging that you overstepped in your previous post, that was very gracious of you. Now if more people (on both sides) would do the same, we could have a much more productive discussion. For what it's worth, as I drove along Stadium this morning, I noted that all the signs (most of which were pro-millage) had been moved away from the right-of-way and were on the other side of the sidewalk. So apparently the message has gotten out regarding the sign ordinance.

GoblueBeatOSU

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 5:47 a.m.

Isn't it great that AA has all this extra tax money to patrol the Twps for campaign signs. Just love seeing my tax dollars put to work on such important things in the Twps. Lets raise the property taxes even higher.....may our tax dollars can be used to trim the trees in the Twps. Clearly the AA city employees have extra time on their hands.

Jack Panitch

Sat, Oct 31, 2009 : 12:45 a.m.

Mr. Boyle: I appreciated your comments and your sense of humor. Important stuff that probably ought to be elevated above the commentary here. But I'm wading back into the fray late to respond to something else. Having two kids home with fever places a damper on my ability to comment. My High School AP Calculus teacher, Richard Foley, used to say daily to everyones chagrin, A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. This comment flew from his mouth and hauled an unsuspecting neophyte up short when s/he would take a concept s/he had recently learned and applied it in a context where it was never intended to fit, arriving at a result that was obviously wildly amusing to Foley, but plausible enough to the rest of us. I grew up in New England and graduated high school in 1978. Economics were o.k. then. When I went back to substitute teach in the Fall of 86 before getting my first law job, things had gone south rapidly, and teachers spent most of their time on disciplinary issues. Man, it was unrecognizable, and it all happened so fast. I dont want that for my kids. But anyway, I digress. All day today, Annarbor.com has featured in italics the following comment: You can put up signs in your yard, but not on public property. Lots of people don't understand that the sidewalk and tree-lawn (sometimes it's called the "sidewalk extension") are public property. The City owns from sidewalk to sidewalk. It's not a free-speech issue, because if you put a sign on public property, you're trying to speak for everyone. To which I ask, is a little knowledge a dangerous thing, here? Hear me out, and I promise you, youll think Im pompous, and youll know more about political signs in Ann Arbor than you wanted to. Ann Arbor has a Code of Ordinances. If you want to review any portion of it, just go to the Citys website. The Code actually addresses political signs: 5:506. Political signs. (1) A sign whose message relates to a candidate for political office, or to a political party, or to a political issue or an ideological opinion, is permitted, subject to the following conditions. (a) Each sign shall have a maximum height of 48 inches and a maximum width of 36 inches, including the support structure and all riders, and shall have the bottom of the sign a minimum of 6 inches from the ground. (b) Such signs shall be set back at least 15 feet from the street and at least 5 feet from the inside edge of the sidewalk, or in accordance with Table 5:505 where conditions do not permit such placement. Provided, that if a legally existing obstruction on the property prevents the sign from being seen from the street when the sign is placed in accordance with the foregoing placement requirements, then the sign may be affixed to or placed immediately in front of such obstruction, so long as the display face of the sign is parallel to the right-of-way line, and so long as the sign is not placed within the public right-of-way. Permission to locate such signs on private property shall be obtained from the owner or occupant of the property on which such signs are located. (c) A sign which advocates or opposes a candidate for public office or a position on an issue to be determined at an election shall be removed not more than 18 hours after the election. (d) Other political signs shall not be subject to any specified time limit but must be removed if they become dangerous or otherwise are prohibited by Section 5:508. (2) The following provisions apply on election days, only, to signs that directly or indirectly make reference to an election, a candidate, or a ballot question and that are erected on property on which a public polling place is located. Such signs are not subject to the placement requirements of subsection (1), but no such sign: (a) Shall be erected within 100 feet of any entrance to a building in which a polling place is located; (b) Shall be erected in the public right-of-way, except that such a sign that complies with all other provisions of this subsection (2) may be erected in that portion of a public right-of-way not meant for pedestrian or vehicular traffic, which is contiguous with and on the same side of the street as the property on which the polling place is located. Permission from the owner of the property on which the polling place is located shall not be required to erect such a sign in the limited portion of the public right-of-way that this ordinance permits; (c) Shall be erected such that it hinders or obstructs the free and safe passage of pedestrians and vehicles in the public right-of-way; (d) Shall be erected more than 18 hours before the polls open; and, (e) Shall remain on the property on which the polling place is located or in the public right-of-way more than 18 hours after the polls close. (Ord. No. 32-94, 2, 4-4-94; Ord. No. 10-01, 4, 3-19-01; Ord. No. 34-06, 1, 7-3-06) The comment featured in italics on Annarbor.coms website is an interpretation of the ordinance. Problem is, this interpretation actually conflicts with the ordinance. The interpretation surely sounds good. It gives us an easy way to understand and remember. But it is inaccurate, and what we understand and remember will be wrong if we dont read the ordinance for ourselves. The ordinance, at least on its face, intrudes onto your property beyond the City sidewalk. It gives the City the authority to control where you place a political sign on your own property. So when the commenter points out that its not a free speech issue, because the City only controls signs on public property, hes wrong. In fact, theres probably more thats inaccurate about the comment, but for purposes of the discussion, well leave it at that. The City is exercising its police power to keep sight lines clean and to avoid distractions to drivers. This is a good and noble purpose. So, how does it turn into a potential 1st Amendment issue? I am by no means a Constitutional scholar my rusty expertise lies in resolving tax controversies and I am not handing out legal advice here. But this is the argument I would try to support if I were an ACLU lawyer or if a client asked me to represent her in a code enforcement action: When state powers collide with important Constitutional rights, there typically is a requirement to tailor the power in the least restrictive way to accomplish the legitimate purpose. If the power is not tailored in such a manner, it is arguable that the State is overstepping its bounds and tramping on individual rights in a bad way. Now lets look at the sign ordinance. Signs are limited to 4 by 3. And, hmm, they have to be placed at least fifteen feet back from the street and possibly farther (if five feet from the inside edge of the sidewalk places the sign more than fifteen feet from the street). Once you finish placing your sign according to the ordinance, youll notice that few drivers over the age of forty will be able to read it. Free speech is good, right? But car crashes are bad, and we dont want our City permanently peppered with unsightly and offensive dreck. Think the City balances this power appropriately vis--vis the First Amendment? Im not so sure. But I can hear some truly knowledgeable professor at the U reading my comments and saying to him- or herself, Say wha? Boy, a little knowledge surely is a dangerous thing! Youre still awake, right? Just checking.

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 11:49 p.m.

Andrew Thomas: The only vote yes signs on my street are all 3 AAPS employees, and by the way, their signs are in the right of way, about 6" from the curb. As I drive through my neighborhood, most, OK not all, but most of the family houses with Vote yes signs, I can personally identify as AAPS employees. When you live in the same neighborhod for years, you get to know your neighbors. You know where they work... OK, maybe I overstepped when I said "most of the vote yes signs are AAPS employees" I should have said 'most of the vote yes signs 'in my neighborhood' are AAPS employees.' What I find impressive about this story, is that while this community officer drove around 'investigating complaints' about signs being placed in the right of way, he didn't see one vote yes sign in the right of way? (he obviously did not drive down my street) or can he only pick up the signs people complain about? So, does that mean that only the Vote Yes campaign called and complained. Don't they have anything better to do with thier time, and our tax dollars?

MCC

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 11:33 p.m.

SUSAN: "It seems that the anti millage signs that I see are not in the yards of those less fortunate but instead in the yards of homes with expensive sports cars and elaborate remodels." ARE WE NOW RESORTING TO CLASS WARFARE??? So, the vote yes signs are not in the yards of homes with expensive cars and elaborate remodels? Look at Randy Friedman. Look at many other homes in your neighborhood, oh! the same one as Randy Friedman. (I'm assuming you have a vote yes in your yard) Mostly homes with expensive cars and remodels. There seems to be a fairly even mix of both vote yes and vote no signs in the neighborhood. Let's not turn this into a "Class" issue.

John Boyle

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 11:18 p.m.

Well, at the risk of using up my 15 minutes of fame, I thought I might weigh in on subject at hand. First of all, I would like to suggest that I do indeed see an element of humor in what is going on here. Lets consider my confrontation with an enforcement officer from the City of Ann Arbor who clearly had decided to enforce Ann Arbors rules outside of Ann Arbors clearly-defined and easily-recognized jurisdiction. Well, for 29 years, I have been paying tickets issued to me by Ann Arbors ruthlessly-efficient enforcement officers. Given that long history, you cannot reasonably expect me not to give an enforcement officer a whuppin when I catch him with his hand in the cookie jar. Candidly, I had to bite my tongue while I was lambasting this gentlemans egregious behavior. I certainly saw the humor in that. Also, I did not miss the humor in getting what might be most of my promised 15 minutes of fame over some bloody yard signs. As a matter of fact, when the News photographer tried to take my picture (mandatorily shared with one of those signs), it took a number of takes before we got a picture without the s _ _t -eatin grin that used to get me smacked by my mother. Now, having a number of letters and essays published over the last 20 years on the unsustainability of Ann Arbors cost structure, I also could not reasonably be expected to avoid an opportunity to tweak Ann Arbors overseers when, after all their bitchin and moanin about costs, they still have the money to dedicate one of Ann Arbors finest to sign-pickup duty. However, in a weak moment, in my condemnation letter to Roger Fraser (AAs City Manager), I did compliment Mr. Fraser on his many successes at reducing costs especially overhead costs. Now, humor aside, over the last 20 years, I have authored a number of essays, articles, position papers, letters, and speeches on the unaffordability of Government in America at all levels local, state, and Federal. In the early and mid-1990s I attempted mightily and I failed mightily to raise flags regarding the unaffordable debts that we were sending to future generations of Americans -- our children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I even formed a 501c(3) called The Coalition for Intergenerational Equity and found no interest in Washington since the crisis was not imminent and since it meant taking on powerful lobbies. The subject of intergenerational equity is not humorous this is serious business. Our failure to rein in the cost of Government will destroy our childrens future and they will not pay the debts that were sending them. Take that to the bank. Interestingly, both sides in the WISD debate will lay claim to the high moral ground with both sides suggesting that it is they who are looking out for our children. In my opinion, American Government at all levels needs to be downsized and restructured. Now, my mothers response to anyone who bitches and moans over just about anything is: Is it cancer? The obvious implication is that only cancer merits a high level of bitching. For the first time in my life, I would answer, yes. Americas cost of Government is a cancer that is killing America. I will support the cost structure of any taxing entity that, in my opinion, has fought the good fight on cost containment AND pays all of its bills currently sending no unfunded liabilities to future generations of taxpayers. In my opinion, this group does not include the WISD, most local school systems, and most of the states other K-12 school systems. Although I am not bereft of noneconomic thoughts, my opinions on American governance are based primarily upon economics and a desire for intergenerational equity and justice. Now, back to the WISD tax. Might I suggest that we continue the debate with at least modest civility, go out and vote on November 3rd, and live with the results.

snapshot

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:13 p.m.

What amazes me about this story is the example of a city employee who does not know the geographic bounderies of the city in which he works, and or lives. How long has he been a city resident and city employee? Unless he just arrived to town, I find it hard to believe he did not know he had literrally exceeded his employement bounderies. Maybe Roger should quit expounding upon what quality city employees we have and how well trained they are. If what Roger says about the incident is true, then the employee is not trained properly and has not been performing effectively. How many other employees are performing as poorly in spite of the effection "in house" productivity and efficientcy studies and training that has been done by city managers. No wonder the city budget is in trouble.So how many other city employees don't know relevant aspects of their jobs. I think this illustrates the need for an outside productivity evaluation of city employees and the jobs they perform.

slug

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 8:22 p.m.

"City ordinances prohibit signs from being in the public right-of-way, mostly because they can be a visual nuisance to drivers" HA HA HA - this is near the triple traffic circle of death. Try counting how many 'visual nuisances' are there!

Art Vandelay

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:46 p.m.

Susan Aaronson asked what IS the plan from those of us with nice cars, nice homes and a NO sign in our yard. We think that overpaying teachers is a waste of scarce financial resources. When we had high school graduates making $80,000 per year in the auto plants we could afford to overypay our teachers (read their contract, the school budget and do a little math and you'll find they make over $80 p/hr including their benefits). We think that capitalism works and that supply and demand should have some impact on their salaries just as it does for us taxpayers. More money doesn't equal a better education or our kids would be among the smartest in the country. Giving the MEA more money doesn't solve anything. If we have trouble finding people that want to teach for the salaries we can offer then I'll be the first to vote yes for more taxes but we are paying teachers double what it takes today. Vote NO so the school board has to think before handing over 80% of their budget to the MEA and screaming poverty again. Enough is enough!

DC

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:25 p.m.

Thanks Annarbor.com for reporting this story. On the surface the story seems hardly newsworthy but then look at the comments that have been posted. I am encouraged that many people are finally waking up. The United States spends more per pupil on education than any other industrialized nation in the world but our academic test scores for 12 graders comes in about dead last. Repeatedly over the past 40 years we have thrown more money at the school system. We have built new schools but the data suggests its all in vein. So obliviously its not about the money. Besides we were told the lottery would pay for the schoolsweve been duped again! Vote no!

huh7891

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 5:42 p.m.

Funny how an article about signs turns into a debate about what teachers salaries are...MOST of the teachers you are referring to have degrees, advanced degrees at that. You are talking about the educators of your children and complaining about them making $60k a year, give me a break. Unless you have been a teacher or know a teacher and have knowledge of the reality of being a teacher don't knock them and what they make. When all is said and done and you figure out the extra time they put in daily and weekly they have more than earned what they make.

annarbortownie

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 4:46 p.m.

Political signs are not to be in the public right of way, period. Simple and straight forward. What is more bothersome to me is the money Ambassador Weiser and his cronies at McKInley throw at political issues, THEY should be looked at. One has to wonder if they don't use McKinley employees on McKinley time for political pursuits. Vote YES.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 4:15 p.m.

It's absolutely amazing that this officer did not know the legal boundaries he is responsible for. As the saying goes, however, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. For the City Administrator to apologize so profusely for this officer's mistake only seems to indicate that something is right here.

ypsituckey1

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 3:34 p.m.

We have major problems in Ypsilanti. Ann Arbor people assume that paying $200 more in taxes is = to giving up a dinner out. We do not go out to eat. You all supported Obama because you wanted hope for people that are not wealthy and you used this as a gimick to really it was us to vote for him. You are lucky to all have University or healthcare jobs and not feel the recession. $200 is my kids Christmas presents and their halloween costumes, their winter coats, etc. If you have this extra money to spare, please send it to me directly. I have no work and my unemployment is running out and I may loose my home. I am Voting NO.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 3:33 p.m.

"typical repubs tea baggers wanting it both ways" -uawisok uawisok, Is it equally easy for you to dismiss the voters in Ypsilanti Township, who are also being asked for 2 more mills for police services to counter the drop in property values and the loss of large, tax-paying employers in the township that have closed up shop and moved? How about the voters in Webster township who are being asked to renew 2 mills for police protection,.5 mills for farmland preservation and increase their taxes by.381 mills for township operations? We're not all "Republican tea-baggers." We're people who simply can't afford to jack up our property taxes right now. The recession hasn't been as kind to us as it obviously has been to you. Sorry about the buses, though. (They don't come near my house.)

townie

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 3:32 p.m.

A copy of Mr. Boyle's email to Fraser has been circulating around town and it appears Boyle actually cc'd the Scio Township supervisor (presumably so the Scio militia could be called in to address this violation of the DMZ). It's funny that Mr. Boyle didn't realize that notifying Scio Township about the signs he had placed in the right-of-way might actually result in Scio Township sending someone out to remove the signs themselves. I agree with posters above who think this whole thing is absolutely hilarious.

grimdaddy1

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 3:31 p.m.

@garrisondyer "Teachers don't "get paid" for the two months when they "don't work." I wish nobody would ever bring up that argument again...." your kidding right? they get paid all summer or they take that pay in the 9months they are working. teachers get paid in the summer everywhere. most teachers take the option to get paid during the summer months when they get to sleep in or lounge while the rest of the country works.

voiceofreason

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 2:58 p.m.

Andrew Thomas, I hope you were using sarcasm in your post above, but I somehow do not believe you were. Do you honestly believe that the name "Dr. I Em Sayin"(emphasis added) is the real name of a person on this site?

uawisok

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 2:26 p.m.

ahh all those poor republicans in scio township who want no more taxes, more aata bus routes even though they don't pay a dime for them....typical repubs tea baggers wanting it both ways

seth.bechtel

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 2:16 p.m.

@chelseagirl... I have them. You can email me at washtenawcountytaxpayers@yahoo.com and I can arrange to get one to you.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 1:38 p.m.

Andrew Thomas, Perhaps my memory is faulty, but when I registered my account, I had to provide my contact information. I think that should satisfy your concern regarding the authenticity of the poster. Besides, we have no way of knowing whether "Andrew Thomas" is your real name, do we?

JebediahJackson

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 1:03 p.m.

That Ann Arbor fool better learn him some manners...

Andrew Thomas

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 12:44 p.m.

A2MomX2 -- whoever you are -- Don't you find it just a tad bit hypocritical to castigate Dr. Emsayin for not disclosing his place of employment when you write anonymous posts using a pseudonym? And just where did you come up with the "fact" that "most of the Vote Yes signs are in yards of people who work for the district"? Or that there are 3,000 "vote yes" signs compared to 1,000 "vote no" signs? Unless you made a door-to-door survey of every house in Washtenaw County, I don't see how you could do this. Or did you just make up this factoid to support your preexisting beliefs? The Ann Arbor News used to have a policy of not printing letters to the editor unless they included the true name of the author. Too bad annarbor.com doesn't adhere to this standard, I think people would be a lot more careful with their posts if they were held personally accountable for the accuracy of their claims. (Not afraid or ashamed to use my real name)

YpsiLivin

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 12:39 p.m.

"The education of all the children in our community can not be undervalued regardless of our temporary poor economy." Our "temporary" poor economy in Michigan has been documentably in recession since 2000. Michigan never recovered after the 2001 recession and here we are mired deeply in another recession in 2009. For those of you who plan to vote "Yes" on the millage, please keep this in mind: This millage isn't limited to your own district. When you vote to raise taxes, you vote to raise the taxes of everyone in the county. While you may believe that more money for your school district will improve your property values, please consider whether you believe EVERYONE IN THE COUNTY will be able to afford the extra taxes you're supporting. Many people who don't live in Ann Arbor have made a conscious choice to live in areas where property taxes are lower and housing is more affordable. If you chose to live in Ann Arbor because it has higher property values, that's your business. Don't consign the rest of us to subsidizing that decision. Wait! you say, Ann Arbor is the one that's subsidizing the rest of the districts! To that, I say: thanks but no thanks. Keep your money. Ann Arbor property values will continue to sink much faster than mine will. (The bigger they are, the harder they fall.) The burden of this tax will shift to the other nine districts soon enough, and indeed, the rest of the taxpayers in Washtenaw County will be subsidizing Ann Arbor voters who are desperately worried - not really about their students mind you, but about the value of their homes. Please, keep your taxes to yourself. If you are really concerned about the "critical state" of the Ann Arbor Public Schools, open up your checkbook and write a check. Encourage your friends and neighbors to do the same. Give until it hurts, but please, don't raise my taxes because you think that this millage will somehow prop up the value of your house.

Thinkin' it Over

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 12:30 p.m.

This is newsworthy? This is a pathetic promotion of the No vote agenda. A2 News has always done whatever it could to undermine our schools. You'd think they would want to support the AAPS to encourage people to want to live here so they could buy newspapers. Oh wait! There is no newspaper! This article is not newsworthy. Cheap shot, A2.com.

Disgruntled in Ann Arbor

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 11:31 a.m.

Does this mean that the police will remove the signs that the protesters have leaning against trees, street signs and fire hydrants if requested by Beth Israel congregants on Saturday mornings? Because while they will remove Millage signs, they won't do anything abouy signs that block fire hydrants and are left unattended on the street.

cmadler

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:45 a.m.

I agree with DagnyJ and djm. I moved to Michigan as an adult, and I've never understood why we still have some many little governments. My proposal is that all townships should be abolished as governmental units. Charter townships can have the option of becoming unincorporated areas, becoming a new municipality, or merging into a neighboring municipality. Municipalities over a certain population (perhaps 10,000) have the choice of their own school district (only one!), a joint school district with neighboring municipalities, or being part of the county school district, while smaller municipalities and unincorporated areas would automatically be part of the county school system.

Eric78

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:37 a.m.

Why would they City pay to fix sidewalks they need the money for Art on City Hall

ownrdgd

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:18 a.m.

If the city owns from sidewalk to sidewalk why do the homeowners have to pay to replace the sidewalk in front of there houses.I wish I had the bucks to spend as I would fight them in court.If they own it they should pay to fix it.

John Galt

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:08 a.m.

Of course city/government employees favor higher taxes. They know where the paycheck comes from. Some will stoop to these levels to help the "cause."

Susan Aaronson

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:08 a.m.

It has been quite clear since AnnArbor.com started covering the millage campaign that they have sided with the anti-millage group and the editorial last week confirmed their opinion. It is a shame that we no longer have a daily paper that gives equal coverage to both sides of the story. Millage sign stealing? Give me a break! It seems that the anti millage signs that I see are not in the yards of those less fortunate but instead in the yards of homes with expensive sports cars and elaborate remodels. If the millage fails, what IS the plan of those who opposed it?

jjrf

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:07 a.m.

We'll never know about the motivation for removing the signs. I will vote no to these taxes and I would like to explain why. My recent example of fiscal irresponsibility: Dexter Schools just bought all new Macs at $1500 each for this year. Now my student does typing class at school on a brand new Mac with a great big (22"?) wide-screen monitor. Gotta have the latest and best for your typing application! Contrast that with a used PC (4 years old) I bought for $110 which seems fine to me for web-surfing and word processing. Even if the used route is not credible for school systems, I know that good quality computers with all the horsepower needed can be purched (in quanitity 1) for around $500. I believe that continually feeding the system more money empowers irresponsibility. It's like raising your child's allowance because they spend all their money before the week is over without looking at how they are spending. My personal situation is that my salary recently went down as my office was closed and I took a job for less money. I know numerous other professional people this has happened to in the last few years. In contrast, how many teachers or gov't bureaucrats working for our tax dollars make less now than a few years ago? I suspect they all make more, whether due to "raises" or "cost-of-living increases", but I'd be glad to hear of some exceptions. Our teachers and government employees do provide valuable service and I'm sure most do an honest days work for their pay. Still their fortunes should rise and fall with the communities they serve. Instead, when budgets are tight in the public sector it's always fast to the scare tactic of: "Look out! We'll have to cut programs or sports (or police or firemen)". Of course, they speak of cutting bodies/programs/services, and never consider reduced pay or benefits for employees as has been the case for many of us in the private sector. Automotive unions have made concessions recently, the teachers union should be next, but of course their role is to represent their members and avoid that regardless of long-term ramifications for the greater good. Feeding the system more dollars is surely one way to maintain standards, but IMHO the first step should be sacrifice and fiscal responsibility in the public sector. Until I see pay-cuts for people living on our tax dollars and parity with the private sector in terms of benefits (such as retirement plans) I don't believe the situation is well balanced.

woodsyh

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 10:04 a.m.

Most teachers have the option to spread their salary over 12 months. I'm sorry if they just can't make it on $60k a year with a pension and low-fee health care. The whole tenure thing needs to go too. It's time for them to wake up and start living the way the rest of us have to. It's really time for a good look at county-wide services for police, fire and schools. Consider the money that would be saved on 'administrators' alone.

Jack Panitch

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:59 a.m.

So, Mr. Stanton, will you call Mr. Boyle back and clue him in that it might not be the pro-millage thieves after all? (More laughter)

Eric78

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:58 a.m.

Yet the Homeowner responsible for replacement of the Sidewalks...... IF the millage fails to go through, kids will stop being educated? VOTE NO

Catherine Timberlake

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:55 a.m.

PLEASE VOTE YES!!! Ann Arborites please realize that this is for the whole county. If you have a problem with how YOUR district is run, take it to YOUR school board and administration. In our area we are doing everything we can. We have passed bond proposals for capital improvements. We can't get more money for our classroom as a community, this has to be a county wide decision. We have had our teachers benefits cuts, job cuts, etc. We get almost $3000 less per student than AAPS students. The cost to the average homeowner is less than $20 per month. This millage will basically allow us to stay afloat. The state has raided so much of the education budget in recent years, this will only bring us back to barely being in the black. I'm not affiliated with the district in any way, other than as a parent. I can't believe so many people would be against this modest millage (when considering the cuts our districts have faced from the state). Washtenaw county has always prided itself on its great schools, we need this now more than ever.

mbill

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:47 a.m.

It seems like a public safety issue to keep things out of the roadway. All they are asking is that you keep it in your yard and not next to the roadway as shown in the photo. How is that difficult? Reality bites folks and were in Michigan, we make the news and not in a good way. It seems inconceivable that this will pass. If there are good people with extra money show your generosity and send your donation checks to schools.

Lcbarn

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:36 a.m.

I just can't understand how this is the lead story! I have never seen such slanted coverage. It's one thing to choose to not endorse the millage...it's another to so obviously slant your stories. As a former reporter, I have found your coverage biased and uninformative. Why not do a story on the other communities that have passed this millage, especially Kalamazoo, which is a now a model for economic development in our state? Why not do a story on how lean some of the Washtenaw County districts are already operating, such as Lincoln which has had to cut its 5th grade music program? Why not do a story on the amazing grassroots network of people in Ann Arbor and throughout the county supporting the millage? Before you head for the polls, make sure you understand the depth of the cuts that would need to be made to make up for a $15-$18 million deficit in Ann Arbor. Under the leadership of Supt. Todd Roberts, the district has become leaner while students continue to outperform others around the state. The superintendents of all the districts in Washtenaw County have worked to consolidate services in both big and small ways. They deserve our support. Our kids -- and our community -- depend on it. I urge you to vote yes on Tuesday.

braggslaw

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:26 a.m.

I think it is deplorable that the govt. is suppressing somebody's right to express themselves. While the sign might not change somebody's vote, it will cause more people to get out and vote.

mbill

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:24 a.m.

Has anyone ever changed their Vote based on someones yard sign? Start issuing citations to pay for the expense of removing all this rubbish from the roadway. Are we not distracted enough?

Ryan J. Stanton

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:23 a.m.

How's this for an update: John Boyle just e-mailed me to say that, while he was in Detroit last night, the four anti-millage signs were removed from his property. "It appears that at least some of the pro-millage folks believe it would be best - and appropriate - to just silence opposition to their demands for ever more tax dollars. I wonder if any of these thieves are teaching our children about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights," Boyle said. "As I am now even more driven to help defeat this millage proposal, I am arranging with Larry Johnson to get replacement signs - and they should be up in time for morning rush hour along Miller Road."

ChelseaGirl

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:20 a.m.

Can anyone tell me where I can get a Vote No sign, besides out of the back of the squad car?

Duane Collicott

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:17 a.m.

So, this guy is complaining about somebody else overstepping bounds when he placed signs beyond his own property?

cinnabar7071

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:14 a.m.

"The pro millage folks do not have the monetary resources to have signs." So they can't afford a plastic sign, but they can afford the extra taxes. This just doesn't make since. Vote no on everything until we see all the waste is gone.

DagnyJ

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:10 a.m.

djm, many school districts elsewhere in the nation are organized on a countywide basis, just as you suggest. Take the districts around Washington DC, or in North Carolina. Some are excellent, with outstanding schools. Why we have these little districts, I don't understand.

walker101

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:08 a.m.

Too bad the officer couldn't of taken the Obama signs last year...Its outrageous"

djm12652

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 9:02 a.m.

I think we need to have just ONE county school district, and every school gets the same student amount. Then, there would only be one superintendent, one school board, etc. Our state would then have, 83 school districts in the whole state getting an equal share as opposed to about 500 school districts. It would sure alleviate all of the gripes by the havenots about the haves...just a thought..and then perhaps the fiscal accountability level would dramatically rise.

Larry Kestenbaum

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 8:53 a.m.

Whenever I agree to host a political sign in front of my house, the eager campaign workers invariably put it right by the curb. So as soon as I see it, I have to move it back behind the sidewalk. Incidentally, the line between your property and the city right-of-way is not invariably at the edge of the sidewalk. Look at your lot survey to see where it really is.

Ryan J. Stanton

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 8:44 a.m.

County Commissioner Leah Gunn contacted me this morning to say that the Washtenaw County Road Commission is responsible for illegal signs in the right-of-way in the townships. She says the Road Commission has been alerted to pick up illegal signs, which it does on a regular basis during election campaigns. Just for everyone's information. We'll see if Mr. Boyle's signs stay up after all.

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 8:44 a.m.

Dr. Emsayin: First you should identify yourself as a WISD employee. Second, the Pro millage people have approx 3000 signs, compared to the 1000 that the VOTE NO people have. Who has more money? Wait until after the election, and both campaigns file their final donation list, and we will see who the true supporters are of each campiagn. Any guesses? Most of the Vote Yes signs are in yards of people who work for the district. They have a built in constituency of employees.... so shame on you I have no problem with the City removing signs on public property, like the entrance to Gallop Park, but to spend time taking signs out of people's yards, because they might be 1-2 feet too close to the road??? WHAT A WASTE OF TIME, MONEY, GASOLINE, ETC. In many neighborhoods where there are no sidewalks, it is difficult to know exactly where the right of way is... Is it 4', is it 5', is it 6', is it 15'? The bigger question here is the complete MIS-USE OF ANN ARBOR TAX DOLLARS on petty politics. This from the group that is asking us to raise our taxes, yet this is how they chose to spend them. Enough already! Let's not spend the AA taxpayer's dollars remoVing signs from people's front yards because they might be too close to the road. If we want to play that game, I'm sure everyone who has read this article, can call the community standards guys, and give them a list of 10, 20, 30 signs to 'investigate'. I'm sure we could use at least 3-4 full time emplyess in their city owned vehicles, doing nothing but removing signs for the next 4 days. GROW UP ANN ARBOR! Is this a good use of our city resources? I have seen many of those signs in people's front yards, perhaps a little too close to the road (ie: in the right of way), but they have not been removed. I could probably give you a list of over 20 in my neighborhood alone.

garrisondyer

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 8:29 a.m.

Teachers don't "get paid" for the two months when they "don't work." I wish nobody would ever bring up that argument again....

Art Vandelay

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:50 a.m.

This selective enforcement of the sign code is no surprise to me. I owned a property on North Main St. and in the weeks before an election all sorts of signs went up, mainly for Democrats running for office. They were in the lawn strip between the sidewalk and street. As soon as I put one up in favor of a medical marijuana initiative the city came through and took them away. Apparently in Ann Arbor some people's free speech is more legal than others.

limmy

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:50 a.m.

We are going to pay for education -- one way or another. Sports programs that used to be free are already charging. I can definitely see a $200 fee to play a sport/theater/music activity. Art classes have already started disappearing. My pioneer student signed up for 2 art classes with 2 more as alternates. She didn't get any of them. I was told off the record that a lot of art teachers were eliminated from Pioneer. Personally, I think an income tax is much fairer than a property tax. But, this is all we have right now.

Cash

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:37 a.m.

I don't care which side of the issue...the signs are an eyesore in the community. And they make the whole community look ugly...and that infringes on MY rights too.

Jack Panitch

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:14 a.m.

KJMClark: If you read the ordinance, you might be surprised to find that even if you put the sign on your own yard, if it's not 15 feet back from the road, "its not Code." So folks, don't be surprised when that tiny sign you put right up close to the sidewalk so drivers can see it (or the road if you have no sidewalk) disappears. It's not the opposition. It's Community Standards.

ChesterMan

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:13 a.m.

I have seen a large increase in the pro-millage signs in my district. The anti-millage signs are still there, no more, no less. Everyone has the right to post their opinion, whether it be in their yard or as a picture on their online newspaper. I hope to see this site post a picture of the pro-millage sign in their "yard." While I would generally agree with those who oppose new taxes, we created this problem when we turned over financial control of our schools to the State. This is our chance to take some of that control back. I ask this honestly, possibly naively, but do people believe there are overpaid teachers. There certainly are some who don't deserve their tenure, but the good teachers, in my opinion, are grossly underpaid and under appreciated. The education of all the children in our community can not be undervalued regardless of our temporary poor economy.

KJMClark

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 7:01 a.m.

You can put up signs in your yard, but not on public property. Lots of people don't understand that the sidewalk and tree-lawn (sometimes it's called the "sidewalk extension") are public property. The City owns from sidewalk to sidewalk. It's not a free-speech issue, because if you put a sign on public property, you're trying to speak for everyone. And in the staffer's defense, it isn't always obvious where the city limit is. There are lots of township islands, some city properties that are past the limit signs, and places where the limit sign is in the wrong place. I'd much rather have city staff doing this, though it's important for them to get it right. This is where free speech and public property collide. Lots of people are willing to fight over that.

The Picker

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:59 a.m.

They don't call it Commie-Standards for nothing!

tmad40blue

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:56 a.m.

Serves him right. He and everybody else need to be voting for the millage anyway, unless you want to see pretty much every arts program in the County school districts disappear very quickly. Oh well, it won't be my fault when kids can't have any fun in school and are stuck doing math, science, and non-worthwhile reading all day. Or maybe the schools won't even be able to afford the materials for those things after the millage doesn't pass.

Dr. I. Emsayin

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:49 a.m.

It's interesting that whoever has the most money often gets their way in an election. For some reason, I don't think it is the poor residents who are spearheading the "no more taxes" campaign. The pro millage folks do not have the monetary resources to have signs. I haven't even seen any signs in favor of the millage. But I would guess that annarbor.com is against the millage given their coverage of it. I miss a newspaper that reports all the wonderful things kids do in school that reminds us why we love our community so much.

bereasonable

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:49 a.m.

Not political? Uh, OK...

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:44 a.m.

Michigan's GDP has dropped for 8 straight years. Layoffs and BIG wage cuts in every industry (except Government!). Prices of Homes are down 50% or more. Worker benefits have been slashed everywhere. Yet School Unions want more money. IN the past few years - ANN ARBOR built a High school they didn't need. Saline built the most expensive high school in the entire state. Projected student populations fell well short of expectations. Schools in Washtenaw need to cut salaries like the rest of the state. Benefits (teacher Cadillac health care programs and 2 months off, etc) need to be cut. Unemployment is too high in our county to ask for even more taxes.

Jack Panitch

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:44 a.m.

If folks from both sides of the issue don't see the humor in this, we're all doomed. I laughed my "tuckus" off. Community Standards is equal-opportunity. Signs posted on Geddes in Ann Arbor Hills are particular targets (although the giant anti-millage sign at the end of Geddes was allowed to remain for months, probably because it was so big that no one recognized it as a yard sign). A friend of mine approached me with her view that anti-millage folk were stealing signs. The thought that this bunch of red-white-and-blue-blooded folks on the other side of the issue were out there breaking any laws (I mean, come on) was just too funny. I told her to check with the City. Sure enough, it was Community Standards. There's a sign ordinance in the City Code. It's there for all to read. It might make little, if any, sense to me (in juxtaposition to the First Amendment), but until someone challenges it in Court, Community Standards is required to enforce it. In the mean-time, take a step back from the conspiracy theories for the day and lighten up. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, we are all going to have to work together on the hugely important concerns voiced by the anti-millage patriots (and I mean that in the best sense of the word -- I'm pro-millage) after November 3rd.

Craig Lounsbury

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:21 a.m.

"His truck bed was full of signs, all of them recommending a vote against the millage - no signs for the millage, and no signs for Argo Pond," Boyle said. "I suspect he was out there doing somebody's (political) bidding." So while retrieving his own signs the "victim" shuffled through every sign in the back of the truck? The bed of which was "full of signs"? Why do I find that hard to believe?

daizyk70

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:15 a.m.

I was very tempted to do the wrong thing and steal some of those signs (I didn't). If the state is going to slash funding for education, we are going to have to make up for the shortfall. Our children's education is worth the small increase in our taxes. I am voting yes.

HappySenior

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 6:04 a.m.

An editorial in the Oct 29 Ann Arbor Journal said that in AA almost 25% of the people live at or below the poverty level. This is not the time for additional taxes. There have been many comments here on annarbor.com with some good ideas on how to reduce expenditures within the school systems. WISD is expecting AA residents to pay in more than they receive back. It has to stop now. I'm voting no on the WISD millage request and I encourage everyone else to vote no. For anyone who believes the officer (why does he not have a name?) was not acting on political motives, you need a quick reality check up.

dan obryan

Fri, Oct 30, 2009 : 5:57 a.m.

no more taxes