'Funeral for the Middle Class' planned to protest Eric Cantor speech in Ann Arbor
A group of local workers and students is expected to protest a speech by U.S. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Virginia, in Ann Arbor on Monday.
In honor of Cantor's Halloween visit to the University of Michigan, numerous groups will be holding a "Funeral for the Middle Class," protesting what they call Cantor’s "radical and destructive votes" on economic and social issues.
The noon protest is expected to include a funeral procession and eulogy given by a Cantor impersonator, according to a press release.
Cantor is expected to speak at 1 p.m. at the Michigan League as part of a lecture series organized by the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy.
Eric Cantor
Monday's protest in Ann Arbor is expected to start at noon outside of the Michigan League, 911 N. University Ave.
Local workers and students are planning to urge Cantor to protect all working families, not just “the people at the top.”
Among the groups expected to be present are the University of Michigan Planners Network, Protect Your Care Michigan and Washtenaw Community Action Team.
Organizers cite a new report released by the Congressional Budget Office that shows the nation’s richest citizens almost tripled their incomes between 1979 and 2007 as the inequality of the distribution of wealth expanded.
The report showed the top 1 percent saw their inflation-adjusted earnings increase by 275 percent, while the bottom 20 percent had earnings grow by 18 percent.
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.
Comments
BenWoodruff
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 12:50 a.m.
Let's remember who Mr. Cantor is looking out for... <a href="http://bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2011/06/eric-cantor-betting-against-american-economy.html" rel='nofollow'>http://bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2011/06/eric-cantor-betting-against-american-economy.html</a> He shorted US Bonds while taking us to the brink of default...
Snarf Oscar Boondoggle
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 11:25 a.m.
ummm, " ... while taking us ... ?" buy/sell ... mutually agreed transactions ... you object to that?
shepard145
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:50 p.m.
...and by the way, the occupiers want to see WALL STREET BANKER TRIALS. The last thing Barney Frank and Chris Dodd want to see is such trials, since all schemes and policy failures will become central to the defense and THEY WILL ALL WALK because they were FOLLOWING DEMOCRAT GOVERNMENT RULES AND POLICIES. NO LAWS WERE BROKEN and the only people who can punish Frank and Dodd are the voters in their districts. The real tragedy will be if VOTERS FAIL TO LEARN THEIR LESSON and democrats are allowed to continue to TEAR DOWN THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY UNDER CONTINUOUS COVER OF THE DEMOCRAT PRESS like our buddy Ryan here.
shepard145
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:44 p.m.
Its obvious to all but the most insipid that Mike's notes are either taken out of context or a moment of contextual isolation from the wider problem. Nothing about the financial crash was the result of the "free market" or "capitalism" and those insisting to the contrary are either mislead or attempting to mislead others – judge for yourself. The crash found it's roots in Jimmy Carter's Community Reinvestment Act that years later had successfully divided risk from reward and moved home ownership from a business transaction to a "right" void of responsibility. By this time, the federal government, principally Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, REQUIRED lending institutions of all kinds make loans to virtually anyone who wanted them risk free because the GOVERNMENT WOULD BUY ANY JUNK THEY SOLD. In fact, if they did not give away enough loans, they would BE PENALIZED amid accusations of "red lining" and "racism". Once the market collapsed, the democrat media jumped in and declared both parties at fault!! Republicans are not blameless – some sessions they could have improved even if powerless to stop the insanity – but the lions share of blame lies with the democrat party, who started and fanned the crisis then blocked all attempts by Republicans to change course. As the so many societies through out recent history have discovered too late, the problem is not with capitalism or the "free market", but with OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT and those who fail to block power thirsty colleagues from executing their arrogant, ambitious reins of ignorance. The bailouts and "too big to fail" resulted from market trauma caused by bad government policy. Even VOTERS are not blameless. Those who vote to seize the income of others in the hopes of living a more comfortable life off "the system" are also to blame and often ignorant of the value of self reliance and hard work.
Snarf Oscar Boondoggle
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 11:19 a.m.
ahhhh, shep ... too many dots to follow up there. yu are wholly correct though. i learned enuff after the 6th grade.
Michael K.
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.
Please, educate yourselves! You are, as usual, being used by the rich, for their own purposes: To keep and grow what they have, at your expense! What purpose do you think money plays in politics? As always, the rich write the laws to suit themselves. **** "Greenspan shocked at failure of free markets" October 24, 2008 It was a remarkable moment: Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, a lifelong champion of free markets, publicly questioning the philosophy that guided him throughout his years as the world's most powerful economic policymaker. The dramatic act of contrition came Thurssay at a hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform looking into the responsibilities of federal regulato rs for the near breakdown of the financial system. In his testimony, Greenspan said that, in light of a crisis he characterized as "a once-in-a-century financial tsunami," he was wrong to think financial markets could police themselves. He incorrectly had expected the discipline of the market would prevent financial institutions from taking life-threatening risks. Those mistakes raised questions about his most fundamental beliefs, he acknowledged. "In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology was not right?" Waxman asked. "Absolutely, precisely," replied Greenspan, who stepped down as Fed chief in 2006 after more than 18 years as chairman. "That's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence it was working exceptionally well." Fed watchers said they were stunned by Greenspan's mea culpa. For his whole adult life, the former Fed chairman has been a devotee of the philosophy of Ayn Rand <a href="http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-10-24/business/17135182_1_economic-policymaker-financial-system-fed-chairman" rel='nofollow'>http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-10-24/business/17135182_1_economic-policymaker-financial-system-fed-chairman</a>
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 9:28 p.m.
greenspan seems to have forgotten about the community reinvestment act. Banks made mistakes, but when the government makes you loan money to borrowers that have no chance of paying the money back, you adapt. <a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Community_Reinvestment_Act" rel='nofollow'>http://www.conservapedia.com/Community_Reinvestment_Act</a> Congress should have recoginized (they did not) that the law was bad policy when food stamps and welfare payments were considered income for the purpose of getting a home laon.
Michael K.
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:52 p.m.
Simon Johnson: By Simon Johnson To fix a broken financial system – and to oversee its proper functioning in the future – you need experts. Finance is complex and the people in charge need to know what they are doing. One common problem, which is also manifest in the United States today, is that many of the leading experts still believe in some version of business-as-usual. <a href="http://baselinescenario.com/" rel='nofollow'>http://baselinescenario.com/</a> Business as usual = Cut taxes, deregulation, free market capitaism run amuck. See also: Phil Gramm, Exxon, Ann Rand, Deregulation, and the ultimate Libertarian: Greenspan cica 2001.
Michael K.
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:47 p.m.
>> Me? MBA, 16 years on the fast track at a Fortune 5 company > "I think you are not telling the truth -- sounds too good and really very odd" I helped start a new Finance subsidiary for a Fortune 5 company in 1995. VP, 3rd person hired. Helped grow it to 600 employess and multiple-billion dollar portfolio within 5 years. Worked closely with the CEO's bosses, the CEO and VP's of a 100,000+ employee company. I consider myself a Finance professional. I also have an undergraduate degree in Criminal Justice, Sociology, and Logic/Philosophy. I DO UNDERSTAND Finance, the Finance Industry, Macro Economics, and the current state of the global economy. As well as the lessons of history. I wish Bush/Obama had taken over the big banks/companies that were failing - gotten new, private management in ASAP, and stripped out the slimeballs that were running the place! Go read Simon Johnson at "The Baseline Scenario": <a href="http://baselinescenario.com/" rel='nofollow'>http://baselinescenario.com/</a> That's why the sudden crys of Sociaism/Fascism, and bitter stired up astro-turf hatred of The Other - Obama. It is the Super Rich trying to prevent that and stay in control after they smashed up teh stockholders car! Obama took the only, pragmatic path out when NO ONE ELSE WAS ACTING, to help save the economy - Unfortunately, with the help of the ***'s, and experts who created the problem in the first place, - Rather than push the car over the cliff, as the angry now want to do .... Go back 15 years and read what the Conservative, Professional Replublicans believed. The are far, far to the left of the current 'nutters who they pretend to support - only because it is to their temporary advantage. Bachman,, for one, is psychotic!
Michael K.
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:29 p.m.
The Libertarian/Tea Party ideal: SOMALIA It is called local sub-optimzation. each for his own being much, much less than the sum of us together. Society matters.
Michael K.
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:28 p.m.
It is called: THE SOCIAL CONTRACT Families group together to provide a decent education. Food. Health care, public librarries. Roads, safety, infrastructure, water. We support you through downward dips - unemployment, sickness, rescue at sea if possible ... not always possibe ... You leverage those resources to grow your skills. Follow your parth, capabilities, dreams. And pay back to future generations - your children. After a ceratin point, consumption for it's own sake becomes pointless. a disease or addiction. It is also called: THE LIFE FORCE Or: LOVE Or: EVOLUTION That is why we have the RIGHT SIDE of our brain - empathetic, caring, compassionate. Because community, love, and caring has given us a distinct evolutionary advantage - or we would have dropped it 1 million years ago ... Cheers!
Joe DeMatio
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
I read somewhere that Cantor's daughter is an undergrad here at Michigan and that he visits Ann Arbor frequently. So he probably knows what he's in for.
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 8:21 p.m.
I have a feeling that Eric Cantor could talk circles around the great minds in AA.
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:11 p.m.
For all of you who are thinking the loss of middle class is someones elses fault, the question is. what are you doing to support American jobs? Do you drive an American car? Do you support drilling in America for oil & gas? Do you vote for represenatives who support expansion of American business? Do you think a business that earns a profit is evil? Do you think big business is evil and think big government is good? Do you believe in "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" Karl Marx In the past America was about equal oppurtunity but we are trying to make it about equal outcome.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 12:41 a.m.
Carolyn: 1) My conservative reference was in response to someone who thinks "libs" own foreign-made cars. 2) I expect to see a very large pile of all your foreign-made stuff and the stuff made by foreign-owned companies by your curbside. There's a word for people who demand others live their lives in a manner they themselves are not willing. GN&GL
Carolyn
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:48 p.m.
@ Edward RE: Yes, those Tech Centers in Ann Arbor are an example of what I am referring to. Those centers are providing jobs for those that are employed there but they own the KNOWLEDGE. Part of why it has taken so long for American car companies to develop electric cars is because of the proprietary ownership of the battery technology. As outdoor 6709 indicated, the intellectual property that is developed by those employees is owned by the company. Those patents, etc., generate lots and lots of money for those companies that in turn that improves Japan's economy. Another example is the patent war that are going on between Apple and Samsung. I know the world is flat and it is silly to come up with simple solutions for complex problems and I don't advocate isolation and closed borders, but I have come to understand the "Buy American" concept. Here is my decision hierarchy when it comes to purchases: American company employing American employees American company employing foriegn employees Foreign company employing American employees Foreign company employing foreign employees P/S It is silly for you to assume that I am a liberal or conservative. I find that those labels have become more and more meaningless and tend to shut down dialog. : )
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:28 p.m.
correction to my last: own, not won. Addendum to my last: I also own a significant amount of Ford stock. Have you put your money where your writing is and bought stock in American companies so as to bolster their situation? Addemdum 2 to my last: I always find it rather amusing how conservatives attribute characteristics to people they've never met. It's called "bias", and that appears to be a fundamental trait of conservatives--at least those who post on A2.com (shep above being the great example, but there are others). GN&GL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:17 p.m.
@outdoor: I own a Ford. LOL. And, BTW, one can buy stock in Toyota and in Honda on the NYNEX, so one wonders how one defines "foreign owned" in this global economy. But go ahead, stick to brand names. It's the simple thing to do. So I expect to see all of the foreign-made products you own and all of the products made in America by foreign made companies out at your curb in the AM. You can start with every electronic device you won. GN&GL
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 9:57 p.m.
ERM Like all good liberals, you think your actions never contribute to the problems of society. It is always someone elses fault. You can rationalize all you want, but the profits on the Toyota Camary go to Japan to help their society. Yes they spend money in US to support jobs, but bottom line is it is better for US for you to buy a Ford than it is to buy a Toyota. If you want more middle class jobs in US you need to support US companies. But that would require liberals to get off their high horses.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 8:20 p.m.
"With profits going back into their companies they are able to develop new technology. The Innovations and the resulting intellectual property is equally, if not more, important. Innovation is the key to a successful nation." You mean like at the Toyota Tech center in Pittsfield Township? Or the Hyundai Tech Center in Ann Arbor Township? This notwithstanding (and there are other examples) are you really now saying that "American-made" now means that the companies need to be American-owned? If so, let me suggest that much that is in your home needs to be set out at the curb for the garbage man to take away. Good Night and Good Luck
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 8:18 p.m.
The point of the quiz was for the great liberals in AA to realize they contribute by problem by buyting cars made by companies that have assemble plant here but are designed overseas and send the profits out of the country. So one more quiz question. Is the US better off if we bought a Ford Focus or a Honda Civic?
outdoor6709
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 8:09 p.m.
Carolyn, if you are interested read <a href="http://www.accuval.net/insights/featuredarticle/detail.php?ID=41" rel='nofollow'>http://www.accuval.net/insights/featuredarticle/detail.php?ID=41</a>
Carolyn
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 6:09 p.m.
And...the Japanese plants that moved into the south never paid the same wages as the plants in Detroit. You can make the argument that union wages are too high, but it remains that this was the beginning of the end of the middle class.
Carolyn
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 6:05 p.m.
@ Edward You addressed part of my argument. What about the other?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 5:04 p.m.
@carolyn: Completely incorrect. Several of these plants (e.g., Honda) are unionized and pay union scale. Those that are not unionized pay union scale (or better, for entry level workers) as a way to keep the unions out. These are well paying jobs--largely due to the threat posed by the possibility of union organization. GN&GL
Carolyn
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:15 p.m.
@ Edward. The bigger question might be whether it is good enough just to create these lower paying jobs? Consider that the Japanese have used our labor force in much the same that we are using the Mexican labor force. Their ability to pay lower wages is what began the downward pressure on the U.S. working middle class. With profits going back into their companies they are able to develop new technology. The Innovations and the resulting intellectual property is equally, if not more, important. Innovation is the key to a successful nation.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.
Correction to above: Under "Honda" the "2" refers to Ohio. There are two Honda plants in Ohio. And, as an addendum, those cars overwhelmingly use American-made parts. For example, the only part that is not American made on a Honda Accord is its transmission. So those parts going into those "foreign" cars are supporting American jobs. So, we wait for your answer. Inquiring minds want to know. GN&GL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:06 p.m.
What is an American-made car? Is the BMW built in SC American-made? The KIA in GA? The Mercedes built in AL? The Volkswagon built in TN? The Toyotas built inMS, KY, TX, IN, WV, and AL? The Nissans built in TN (2 plants) and MS? The Hondas built in (2 plants), IN, and AL Can't wait to see your answer. Simpleton quizzes like yours are for simpletons. The world is more complex. Good Night and Good Luck
peg dash fab
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:46 p.m.
Oh boy, a quiz! Working and spending, sort of, responsibly, yes, no, sloganeering FAIL, seriously Karl Marx? Your slogan-based politics is the sign of a closed mind.
USRepublic
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:09 p.m.
Ann Arbor.com covers a potential protest...still in the making... Forgets to cover the substance of Congressman Cantor's visit. A perfect example of why the Ann Arbor News and Ann Arbor.com are doomed! Shoddy reporting...lack of meaningful content....nothing but a thinly veiled advertisement for the whining of the lunatic fringe...give me a break!!
Carole
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:55 a.m.
I say keep our jobs here in the USA and always try to find items that are made here--especially in Michigan. Canada is my next choice. On another thought, if all those folks out there campaigning can raise millions, and in Pres. Obama's case, he is hoping for a billion, that I say take those funds and apply them to the national deficit. And, along that same thought with all of those donations, "who really runs the country".
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:13 a.m.
Simple questions: Tax burdens are at there lowest level in decades... union membership is at the lowest in decades... government workers have taken pay cuts, benefit reductions and unpaid leave... NAFTA, CAFTA and now Korea and Brazil get "free trade" agreements... the top wealth holders have seen their wealth grow dramatically in the last couple of decades According to supply side theory the country should be creating jobs and wealth. Where are the jobs? Supply side is a fantasy, DEMAND creates jobs, customers create jobs via DEMAND. If there is no demand for a good or service, nobody is going to invest in a company with no customers, regardless of the tax rate.
DonBee
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:56 a.m.
clownfish - President Obama said that spending money on extended unemployment, on stopping payroll taxes and other cash handouts would stimulate demand and that unemployment would peak at a maximum of 8 percent. I seem to recall that unemployment shot through this number. As to free trade, I agree, even with free trade, most of our partners keep barriers up. I should be able to work in Canada with no hassle, a simple letter, and a small payment and I have a work permit. In reality, each time I try to get my work permit, it is a day of waiting and waiting. The street is not really a two way free trade. We need not handouts, but putting people to work. Here is my proposal. A day labor market at every city and town hall. Government units pick up people daily to do jobs, pick up trash, clean toilets, whatever they need that day. Let the NGOs do the same thing. Pay minimum wage for hours worked. This replaces unemployment beyond 20 weeks. You want money from the government, you work for the government. Want to bet who will fight the hardest to make this not happen? I bet I know.... ...the public sector unions
Chip Reed
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:08 a.m.
When Mr. Cantor first came to Congress, folks called him "overdog" to honor his steadfast support for the winners in our society. During the budget battle, he was the one barking at our President in the meeting like a junk-yard dog. So let's not have any silly talk about being polite to the congressman...
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:42 a.m.
Very slanted story. Protestors should be going to the White House, Stabenow and Levin offices -- protest Conyers etc. heir blame is misplaced ad really incoherent. It is the multiculturalism and equal outcome groups that the democratic party has fostered as well as pitting one american against another -- that is the democratic party and the leftists that are part of this group of bums.
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:09 a.m.
yes, no question, multiculturalism has benefited the lower classes at the expense of the top.
aes
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:05 a.m.
I have not had a chance to read all the comments yet, but did anyone mention that his daughter is attending UM? We saw him at the beginning of the semester, both working out at the Y and shopping at CVS on State Street. He was accompanied by several men who looked as if they were guarding him. Guess he is combining a talk at UM with a visit to his daughter.
snoopdog
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:06 a.m.
I love rich people, I hope to be one some day. Not worked out yet but I will keep trying ! Good Day
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:38 a.m.
Hate-the-rich is not a sound economic policy.
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:34 a.m.
Yes love works better than hate -- but then without hate what would dems have left to do......
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:28 a.m.
Yes, love the rich has worked out so well. Good Night and Good Luck
nicole
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:03 a.m.
Funny, I don't think I can recall the Ann Arbor News ever covering a protest of a Democrat coming to speak. They only cover it when it's the other way, the way they agree with. Now there's objective journalism for you!
Diagenes
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:33 p.m.
I recall A2 news covering Nancy Pelosi coming to Borders to sign books. There was some protesting. Mostly signs opposed to Pelosi being held by people across the street. If I recall correctly she sold about 40 books (due to prior arrangement, I am sure) with a small crowd of supporters in attendance. A2News has covered the semi regular visit from Jesse Jackson. When his bank account gets a little low he shows up for a cash infusion from the student assembly checking account.
Michigan Man
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:58 a.m.
On Friday, Cantor spoke at Northwestern University in Evanston. By all accounts, the Northwestern University and Evanston community was gracious, respectful, displayed adult like behavior and was pleased that he visited their campus/city. Relative to the Cantor visit to Ann Arbor, I would hope the fine people of Ann Arbor would show the same high class, poise and polish in welcoming Cantor to the University and Ann Arbor. Please do not make fools of yourselves!
Snarf Oscar Boondoggle
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 11:06 a.m.
let me save sal-z the trouble: Sallyxyz -- at 4:03 PM on October 29, 2011 -- "Hope he gets booed off the stage. No treat for UM with this speaker. Happy Halloween!" and compliment steph: "Please do not make fools of yourselves!"
peg dash fab
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:42 p.m.
So, like, no one should yell out "you lie" (as he does and will) because that would be disrespectful?
Sparty
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:37 a.m.
No, we should be gracious when being made fools of by Cantor and his fellow tea drinkers?
Nephilim
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:06 a.m.
And they all fell out of their Birkenstocks laughing at your comment.
Mr. Incredible
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:29 p.m.
So what is your solution, Chase?
Chase Ingersoll
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:05 p.m.
In the prisoners dilemma the solution is not achievable. That is where we are at. We have a democracy, and the majority are receiving benefits that they are not going to vote to give up. Tax the rich, employers who produce goods sold on the world market and they will transfer their assets to those jurisdictions with a more favorable return and asset protection. Conscript the means of production and the most recent example of the result is Venezuela. The ones with the most to lose, in the sense that it is all that they have are those who depend on government. Government is going to first take care of itself, and attempt to maintain power so as to provide resources/employment for those who are a part of the government. Since government doesn't produce anything and the beneficiaries don't produce anything, government is going to have to sell out to those who are still present and producing and skim enough from them to keep people in government employed. We will still be paying bureaucrats to collect taxes and pay themselves, even when there is nothing left over from those expenses to redistribute to the unemployed. Ultimately those with knowledge, access to resource and ability will survive, as they have done throughout history. Those who know only how to stand in line for a check and show up to vote for the politician who they know will borrow to pay benefits beyond what the production base can support, are going to be weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth.
peg dash fab
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:18 p.m.
"Also notable, but rarely pointed out is that at 50k of earning you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the US." Shenanigans! According to <a href="http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf," rel='nofollow'>http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf,</a> median household income in the US in 2010 was $49K. (Median male earned income was $48K, female $37K.)
peg dash fab
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.
Ha ha Heardoc is auto-corrected to "heard of." But this here Heardoc has heard of nothing that doesn't agree with his slogan-based politics! How ironic! (In the Alanis Morisette sense ...)
peg dash fab
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.
Heard of — reading comprehension! My post gave individual income numbers, so ... go rebuke yourself!
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:41 a.m.
Typical dems comparing apples and oranges -- you all are speaking of household incomes and i think he was speaking of individual incomes-- geez get the facts straight once. maybe you need a Good Night sleep and Good Luck in your learning.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
You actually expect the wannabe state senator to have his facts right? Good Night and Good Luck
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
peg dash fab - You are correct - to get in the top 20% of the households in Michigan you need a household income of $80,000. So there is no way that $50,000 in income puts you in the top 10 percent.
Sparty
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:06 p.m.
MR. Canton is not a Senator ... he is a Congressman from Virginia, currently the Majority Leader in the House of Representatives. Thus, he is but one of 435 elected representatives in that body vs 1 of 100 Senators -- a huge difference in our Government. It pays to study and learn about who are leaders are and in what body of government they work, especially when they are such snakes as Cantor. He is a tea drinker in "leadership" in the House obstructing any progress except when it comes to cutting taxes for the wealthy or the corporate people. After all, the wealthy 1% have only seen their incomes grown 275% over the last 30 years while the remaining 99% have seen ours grow 40% during that same time frame. They've been busy creating jobs during those 30 years, right? Uh, no. Tricking down that economic gain? Uh, no? Well, these numbers come from the Congressional Budget Office, you know -- that bipartisan group that assesses these things. It makes it hard to dispute the facts, doesn't it? They also say that the President's Job Plan would add 1.3 million new jobs and 1% growth to the economy if passed, but the tea drinkers don't want that to pass because they want him to be a one term President even it destroys the economy, doesn't add jobs, destroys our credit rating, and destroys our long term economic stability. But that's the TP Republican Platform.
Michael K.
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:23 p.m.
Me? MBA, 16 years on the fast track at a Fortune 5 company. Most of my family are in the 1%, and have been core supporters of Republican politician for 30+ years. Professionalism, hard work, common sense, fairness. The libertarians, Kochs', and Te Partiers,, like the Coor's family, would like to turn the clock back, not just to the 1920's, but more like the good old robber baron years of the 1890's. I will go march with the Occupy Wall Street folks in my best funeral attire: my $1,200 Burberry suit, $500 Allen Edmonds shoes, and $75 silk tie. Because I support them! Cheers! See you there!
peg dash fab
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:37 p.m.
Heardoc, do you also plug your ears and sing "na na na na na" when you don't like what you hear?
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:51 a.m.
I think you are not telling the truth -- sounds too good and really very odd.
G. Orwell
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:16 p.m.
One other thing. Neither the Repubs nor the Dems (Dems ran on stopping the wars and Obama promised to STOP the wars soon as he got into office.) are wanting to stop the wars. Rather, the Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama is drastically expanding the wars. Next is Syria, then Iran. These people have no problem murdering innocent women and children. We should bring the trillions home to help people and to get the economy growing again. Rather than wasting it on these illegal wars to benefit the insiders in the military-industrial-complex. It makes too much sense for the CONTROLLED Repubs and Dems to do it.
G. Orwell
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:42 a.m.
@Rob So, bombing Libya that has killed thousands of innocent people is okay as long as we did not have troops on the ground?!!!! So, if crooks burned down your house and killed your family, it okay as long as they don't go in your house? What is the difference? We may not have had troops on the ground, but we did ave special ops and the CIA on the ground to support the bombing and Al Queda. That is right, Al Queda is now in charge of Libya with our backing.
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:45 a.m.
Obama followed the timetable for withdrawal that was set in the Bush administration by agreement with Iraq Despite the promise during the campaign of some type of quicker exit - didn't happen.
Sparty
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:58 p.m.
Obama stopped the war in Iraq and has drawn down the troop level in Afghanistan, and has a firm time table to end that war by 2014. No troops were on the ground in Libya and Nato is finished on Monday. What wars are you referring to?
Michael K.
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:12 p.m.
We had a great, booming economy with the Reagan tax rates, before any reductions, trickle down, or supply side nonsense. We had a great, booming economy and a balanced budget under Clinton. Again with higher tax rates than Bush. Bush and his Neo-Con pals spent $3 trillion+ on his unfunded wars, driven 100% by dogma and arrogance. They gave trillions back to the rich, while letting the poor drown in New Orleans because of their "philosophy" of less government and "individual responsibility." His gutting of regulations and regulatory agencies brought us to the brink of collapse, with the worst economy in any of our lives - in the last 80 years. And the world still teters on the brink ... Not to mention the pure Cronyism of the Haliburton oligarchy, or the "let industry police itself" non-regulation of the EPA, with the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Capital gains are "privilaged", and taxed at 1/2 the rate of wages earned by sweat, blood, and tears. Because ... the rich write the laws to benefit themselves. Full stop. Go back to the Clinton or Reagan era tax rates. Use Kenesian techniques in the short term to stimulate the economy. When we are booming again in 2 years, tweak Social Security to keep it solvent (the risk right now is only a 25% cut in about 27 years now.) The booming economy will help reign in the defecit. We can get balanvced again. And learn the true lesson of the Bush years: Elect pragmatists and professionals, not zealots who ignore data, science, and common sense in pursuit of an unwavering dogma. Think: Iraq. Think: Katrina. Actions driven by dogma, not pragmatism or common sense.
Diagenes
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
Obama is a Kenesian. It has not worked. He pumped almost a trillion dollars into the economy since 2009. What do we have to show for it? Most of the money went to state governments. A couple of bucks went to "shovel ready projects" which the President himself said were not that "shovel ready". The thing that Kenesians do not understand is that government takes money out of the private sector and decides where it will be spent. For every dollar the governemnt takes is one less dollar to flow to its most efficent use. I do agree that Pres. Obama should have done more to stop the BP oil spill.
David Briegel
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:15 p.m.
heardoc, No your check for all the foolish mistakes of the Bush years has come for payment and you TeaPublicons are dining and dashing! And you so wrongfully blame others!
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:54 a.m.
We did reduce rates in the reagan years -- kanesian economics never has ever worked --NEVER. Clinton started to increase rates again and now we have what we have -- due to mostly dems.
Sallyxyz
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:03 p.m.
Hope he gets booed off the stage. No treat for UM with this speaker. Happy Halloween!
Snarf Oscar Boondoggle
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 11 a.m.
@sal-z ... ummm something aobout the courtesy for freedom of speech, eh? "Hope he gets booed off the stage." oh, wiat .. that's only for one side, not the other. nevermind.
Heardoc
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:55 a.m.
Typical leftist that cannot stand to hear the truth.
Michigan Man
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.
Sally - Relative to the Cantor visit, try to show a little class, poise and polish so that the fine citizens of Ann Arbor are not embarrassed by excessive juvenile behavior - Cantor has simply accepted an invitation to speak - if you are pissed off that he is in Ann Arbor complained to the group/entity/organization that invited Cantor to Ann Arbor.
Technojunkie
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:03 p.m.
Curious how Wall Street bankrolls the Democratic Party. Billionaires like Soros and Buffet heap largesse on the Left. Might this have something to do with the immense amount of money the Federal Reserve prints out of thin air which politicians heap on private sector elites in the form of "stimulus" money, Wall Street bailouts, and such? Spending hundreds of $thousands, if not $millions, per "green" job created? I can't imagine why the jobless rate has soared under the Obama regime. If we Tea Partiers had our way there would have been no bailouts. Goldman Sachs and assorted wannabes would have crashed and burned, and good riddance to them. Mischief-making central planners (like the "University of Michigan Planners Network"?) would be far more constrained than they are today without the federal government funding them. The middle class has been dying ever since LBJ took our silver away in 1965 to fund his welfare/warfare state with fiat paper.
Snarf Oscar Boondoggle
Mon, Oct 31, 2011 : 10:58 a.m.
@techno ... and here i thoguth nobody remembered .. "The middle class has been dying ever since LBJ took our silver away in 1965 to fund his welfare/warfare state with fiat paper." and, i might add, gutted a >solvent< social security fund.
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:06 a.m.
Again, some facts are left out. TARP was passed by a GOP president and a GOP congress. That does not mean that the dems are not beholden to the financial sector, but guess who the top 1% are? And, last I checked, it was the GOP defending the 1%-ers against the socialist mob.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:16 a.m.
And your point is that no one should do business with AIG because they received a government bailout? Yeah. That makes sense in a certain Alice-Through-the-Looking-Glass-in-Teapartyland sort of way. Good Night and Good Luck
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:04 p.m.
When it comes to Mr Buffet - here is his latest win from Federal money: "Apr 20, 2011 – AIG is to pay Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway $1.65bn to buy protection against as much as $3.5bn of asbestos-related claims..." This is your tax dollars going directly thru AIG to Mr. Buffett... Of course he supports the current government!
shepard145
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:58 p.m.
Ryan should be thanking Senator Cantor for coming to Michigan or even noticing our state after the pathetic 2008 election when we helped elect the worst president in a century. Republicans like Mr Cantor are the last and only chance the United States has to recover from the Bankrupting spending carried out democrats over the last 3 years as they richly rewarded their big banking buddies, unions and insane green energy failures. Meanwhile, Big Wall Street Money continues to finance obama's campaign as they did in 2008. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, who were instrumental to the mortgage collapse, get a big pass from Ryan Stanton here even as they mock those who pour MONEY into their campaign bank accounts. CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!! LOL A moron knows that no amount of taxes on THE RICH can pay for his $5 trillion in new spending – so why are these lies not apparent to a news media - are they incompetent, liars or both? The "infrastructure jobs" he refers to don't exist – highway construction is highly automated, fast and takes relatively few people. Obama and his stooges think this is 1920 when 3000 men with picks and a few steam shovels spend half a decade to build a highway!! LOL This is the worst president in a century paying hate politics and class warfare with the future of America because he can't run on his failed record to will rely on a wave of hatred and lies as the corrupt democrat press continues hold and carry his water.
shepard145
Tue, Nov 1, 2011 : 5:01 p.m.
Mayor Cantor was spectacular - we hope you learned something. ....in addition to his tie color.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 8:30 p.m.
Yep, Shep. The color of one's tie is equal to understanding the position and role of one of the most important members of Congress. Basic civic literacy learned in an 8th grade civics class. Or, in come people's case, never learned at all. Indeed, they appear happy to revel in their ignorance. Which, as my original post makes clear, that tells one how much weight to give their fact-free and logic-free blather. GN&GL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 7:31 p.m.
Yes, Shep. Someone who does not understand the difference between a senator and the House Majority Leader needs to concentrate on "big" ideas. Like when to change their "Depends" GN&GL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 5 p.m.
A missed keystroke = typo. Calling the House Majority Leader a "senator" = basic civic illiteracy. GN&GL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
If you don't know that he is the House Majority Leader, the knowledge of which is a measure of basic civic literacy (or, in this case, the complete lack thereof), there is no reason for anyone to think your blather isn't similarly illiterate. GN&GL
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:04 a.m.
Check some stats, the last WH resident left us with two wars (unpaid for), a recession (started in 2007), a 400 Billion dollar drug plan that excludes free market competition. Obama has cut taxes, continued tax cuts already passed, increased oil/gas exploration, continued the "war on terror" etc. I thought that is what the GOP wanted? Guess not.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:14 a.m.
He's not a senator. Just like the rest of your post: fictional blather. Good Night and Good Luck
G. Orwell
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:56 p.m.
Both the Repubs and Dems are responsible for the raping of the middle class and the poor and outsourcing much of the manufacturing. You notice no one from either side is offering any policy changeS to bring manufacturing back to the US and to rein in the financial corrupt institutions. Other than Ron Paul. We need fair trade agreements and to re-instate the Glass Steagall Act. Very simple to solve much of what is wrong with the US. Both Repubs and Dems know this but they won't since they do not work for us. When will people wake up!
shepard145
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.
The "middle class" in America changes daily as some elevate themselves and some don't. Referring to the "middle class" as though it is some kind of European cast is a fundamental error among amateurs that often leads them to their wacky conclusions. I am descended from royalty but unlike my lucky ancestors, don't have the power to have most of you arrested for failing to agree with me. Proclaiming "both parties are to blame" is music to democrat ears as it neatly lets off decades of democrat job killing polices beginning with Carter when he decided home ownership was a right rather then a business transaction even as those writing it announce their weak understanding of the issue. Ron Paul is a side show amusement who supports Iran developing nuclear weapons and a gold standard for currency. For every good idea he has, there are a dozen that have the room roaring with laughter. He's a waste of time.
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:02 p.m.
Bravo - Well said. Neither party or any member of the ruling political class care about anything but themselves.
Pika
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:14 p.m.
Ron Paul is one of the most deluded politicians in the country. He is right about the war machine but nothing else. He is deluded in his understanding of our economy. Re-instating Glass Steagall is exactly the opposite of what Ron Paul stands for. With all due respect - you need to wake up.
shepard145
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:48 p.m.
When folks like Ryan here are compelled by their personal politics to parrot party talking points, facts get misrepresented or opposing reality is omitted. More then half of Michigan's available readers who enjoy the truth, jobs, a vibrant economy and a future for America than become disgusted and often turn away from a "newspaper" misrepresenting his nonsense as "news" or the words of a "political reporter". A glance at his past work show's a partisan democrat operative working indirectly for the democrat party to help get other democrats elected. This dynamic was instrumental in the bankruptcy of the Ann Arbor News as less the half of the public (those not disgusted by the democrat nonsense) failed to support the 135 year old institution. AA dot com should either re-assign Ryan to something like Obituaries or Zoo Animal Birthdays where he will cause less damage to the paper's reputation or warn readers in the byline to expect political slander and favoritism. He should be identified as "democrat shill" or "democrat operative" rather then "reporter" so those reading his work know he's using his job to campaign for his failed political party. …..as you see what he's written above Ryan forgets to mention that obama's favorable rating on the economy is in the 30's (though he enjoyed 2 years of a filibuster proof majority in all three branches) but he feels compelled to wrongly tie Republicans to the state of the economy even though they control only one branch of government.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 6:20 p.m.
Classic Shep: an admission that facts do not matter in his Alice-through-the-looking-glass-Faux-Noise-teapartying world. But we have known that all along. GN&GL
shepard145
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:34 p.m.
Clown - your factoids are irrelevant to the point as demonstrated by the final result. Thousands of facts exist about the AA News and AA dot com but they are not necessarily pertinent to this discussion. How big is the sign out front? LOL So despite your excuses, low readership leads to low demand for advertising. This generation of democrat reporters catered to left wing nuts, a tiny percentage of the pubic readership market, and pushed the 135 year old AA News into BANKRUPTCY. Certainly those who hired, managed and edited those out of control reporters were equally responsible. Should we be surprised that AA dot com is now regressing to the same pathetic state and may eventually lead to the same result? Will it be much of a loss? Your post also demonstrates another leftist handicap - the inability to learn from obvious mistakes, apologize to those you've annoyed and improve. The democrat mind seems compelled to follow the other clueless lemmings over the edge and into the abyss with little hesitation. For a larger, more tragic and dangerous sample of the disorder, refer to democrats temporarily occupying leadership positions in Washington DC.
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:56 p.m.
Ray, the democratic leadership and majority of the senate did not even submit a budget for 18 months - they did not even try. This was done for two reasons, one as you state - could it get 60 votes? The second and most pressing was that the steps they would need to take to address the mess they created by approving the 2009 first Obama budget would kill them even worse in the election of 2010. They did not even put the Obama recommended budget of 2010 up for a vote because they did not have the votes even within their own party.
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 11:01 a.m.
1" Craigslist did more harm to the A2 News than some myth of their "liberal" leanings 2: The former editor crossed picket lines to work in Ohio during a strike, hardly a core demo act. 3: The A2 News endorsed George Bush, twice I believe, again, hardly the act of a dem "agenda". 4: Linens and Things and Circuit City bankruptcy were the last straws for the loss of ad revenue, that put a stake in the heart of a 175 year old company. But, don't let facts sway you from your preconceived beliefs.
shepard145
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.
I am pointing out that Ryan is an agenda driven hack that should be assigned somewhere, such as writing appliance sales ads, where his mission for the democrat party will conflict less with his job. It may also save AA dot come a few thousand readers over time. As a democrat, your opinions don't interest me other then to observe that anyone radical left democrat enough will find even common democrat operatives like Ryan here "conservative". LOL ..and you have every reason to write and spew a little cover on your democrat buddy. … Regarding the filibuster, your point is irrelevant - a distinction without a difference. Go google how healthcare passed – the corrupt democrat Houses are not above using every trick in the book to circumvent the Constitution. The fact is, obama is a failure and the worst president in a century- all the rest is noise. If you're cruising through life in a union, a government employee or living off the system, you must support him. Those of us paying your bills need to live in the real world.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:13 a.m.
@Ray: Asking shep to have any facts in hand is the proverbial bridge too far. Good Night and Good Luck
bhall
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:24 p.m.
Excuse me, but what planet are you on? The Ann Arbor News endorsed Bush -- twice! The annarbor.com is owned by the same corporate owner. You may say that the old News was out of step from its readers. If anything, the old News was too conservative for its readers. Come back to Mother Earth, please!
RayA2
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:04 p.m.
Why not (attempt) to point out what is wrong with Ryan's argument, rather than attack Ryan and anyoine who gives him a voice? I know Faux Noise uses the same style but it falls increasingly on deaf ears. You don't think that the growth of on-line news media, which has driven several newspapers around this country out of business, was significantly more responsible for the death of the Ann Arbor News than was your alleged partisan work? I have found the Ann Arbor News, like its successor, to be predominantly conservative in its opinions. You are also completely wrong about President Obama having "2 years of a fillibuster proof majority in all three branches". First of all, you can't have a fillibuster in 2 of the 3 branches of government. Secondly, in the senate, which is the only place where a fillibuster can take place, President Obama has never had the required 60% required to end a fillibuster.
Ron Granger
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:27 p.m.
Corporate welfare is... no millionaire left behind. Corporate welfare is 15% tax rate on dividents while the rest of us pay 30%+.
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 6:01 p.m.
Well Ed, I provided answers to your questions regarding storage, banks, and investments. If you dispute my answers on how the banking and investment system works, feel free to correct, snark, or say different. Unless you have that proverbial money tree in the back yard, when you increase taxes on investments, that means you have less funds that could be used to invest or roll back in.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 5:49 p.m.
You've provided not one fact about the current system except to say that we all invest in 401ks or some other stock-backed investment. No kidding. And all of that money will continue to pour into those investments no matter what happens to the capital gains tax. Aside from that, you have issued opinions about what will and will not happen via some hypotheticals. Suggest that you look at the difference between facts and opinion. But I do understand why demanding actual "facts" might be decried as "snark." In my experience on A2.com, when one cannot come forward with facts and logic, the only resort is the ad hominem. GN&GL
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 5:35 p.m.
Ed, I provided you facts on the current banking and investment system and an explanation of interest earned on savings vice investment. If you pay higher taxes, then you have less to invest. You comment regarding: "people owning stocks and bonds are going to put it in a savings account that pays 1.5%. Right." Was this the well known cynicism? This is the somewhere to your "nowhere". "Fiction - pure fiction on your part" "Cute" "ludicrous assertion" Why is it always necessary to end in snark?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:36 p.m.
Nowhere did I say the bulk of America didn't own stocks and bonds. Nowhere. I guess demanding facts and logic from posters on A2.com = snark to those who cannot provide either. For example, facts and logic to support the ludicrous assertion that higher tax rates will prevent investment. GN&GL
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.
A busy morning. Ron, if you tax dividends the same or higher as earned income, because of the risk, there is little incentive to invest. Without investment, there is reduced growth or no growth. While not knowing the particulars of your "fortunate" friend, there is one constant, his father was taxed on the money he invested that pays that dividend, and perhaps another; if the son is really fortunate in terms of the amount, there will be an estate tax involved as well. The "millions" in ADM stock was purchased with taxed dollars at some point in time: do you see that? Next, you can not "invest dollars for work". You work and get dollars as in earned income which is taxed at your "30%+" rate (you neglect to mention that with deductions it is usually less than 30%). And again if that worker chooses to invest that money into something that pays dividends, since it was already taxed, it is at 15%. Which leads me to Ed. Ed, discourse with you is always filled with snark and cynicism - but it is sometimes enjoyable. I left the statement open awaiting the stocks and bonds response. To which, I would have replied: 1) Ed, do you understand the difference between bank lending and investments? And 2) Do you have a 401K? If so, you own stocks and bonds and through whatever vehicle is in your 401K, say like mutual funds, you are receiving a dividend (if the mutual fund is in the black). So the bulk of America DOES own stock and bonds AND has savings in banks (storage). In addition, government securities pay a slightly higher rate than the banks and are an excellent place for fund placement to earn slightly higher interest (sometimes tax free if they are municipal bonds) then the banks without risk concerns like stocks. Bottom line gentlemen: if you remove the incentive to invest, you remove the investment. Without investment there is no growth.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:13 p.m.
BTW arbor, you predicted NOTHING. You left an open-ended comment that implied that you knew my reply. Of course, had you known my reply, you'd have pulled the rug out from under it by stating it. You did not. Cute. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
Yeah, arbor. People who hold stocks and bonds are going to put it in a savings account that gets 1.5%. Right. And, BTW, if the government is in such trouble, if its debts are mounting, if its credit is no good--they're not putting that money in any form of government security. Fiction--pure fiction on your part. GN&GL
Ron Granger
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:13 p.m.
@Arborcomment - Saw it. It is a tired and flawed argument. Your argument hinges on two points - risk, and investment of money that has already been taxed. It wrongly assumes that the dividend income earner who pays only 15% tax incurs more risk than the person who actually works - sometimes in their own business - and is taxed at 30%+. The notion that someone who holds millions in low risk, high dividend stock, like ADM, and earns $200K a year from dividends should pay only 15% tax, while someone who works 80 hours a week in their own business should pay 33% tax for the same $200K makes no sense. As an example, my friend does not work. He receives large dividend checks from his father's business. Where is his investment? Where is his risk? The checks roll in, and he pays only 15% tax. Your argument incorrectly assumes the dollars the "working class" invest in their work have not been taxed. They have. In fact, it has often been taxed at a much higher rate than the "dividend earning class". The "worker" is "investing" already taxed dollars, and working long hours. Who has the greater "risk"? I contend it is the worker who faces ruin if they should cease to work for any reason, rather than than the investor who sits at home waiting for the checks to roll in.
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
Ed, your "point" is moot. See my response in the "Rob" at 3:21 pm above. Sorry, a little early in the morning.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 3:23 a.m.
Yes--and then the bank invests that money elsewhere. Thanks for making my point for me. GN&GL
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2 a.m.
Ed, you "store" money in a bank where earns low interest which is taxed as ordinary income and insured for up to 200k against loss. Or, treasury certificates, CDs, or savings bonds, all backed as securities. I think I know what's coming next.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:11 a.m.
"The different tax rates reflects that risk so as to encourage money to move from storage to investment." I'm curious: where does one "store" one's money if not in an investment? And don't even try "in your mattress" as an answer. Good Night and Good Luck
Arborcomment
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 11:22 p.m.
Ron, as you posted the same thing on story about the SDS radicals re-visit old times with OWS, you may have missed this explanation: tax rates on dividends and earned income are different because the money used to purchase an investment has already been taxed once. More important, a dividend is the result of an investment which can succeed (dividend) or fail (loss of the investment). The different tax rates reflects that risk so as to encourage money to move from storage to investment.
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:59 p.m.
Ron Granger - Many of the people who get that 15% rate are retirees. In fact most non-union, non-public sector retirees depend on that 15% rate.
Sparty
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:21 p.m.
Tea drinkers can't dispute the fact that the top 1% incomes have gained 275% while the remaining 99% of us have gained just 40% in our incomes over the last 30 years. The tea drinkers continue to protect the wealthy while the rest of us are squeezed. Speaker Cantor, uh .... I mean Majority "Leader" Cantor is holding the Democrats in the House hostage just as Minority "Leader" McConnell and his tea drinkers are in the Senate with the filibuster, all to protect the wealthy and their corporate people, and to keep Obama a one-term President even if it brings America to it's knees, ruins our credit and economic ratings, and to keep us from adding the 1.3 million new jobs and 1% economic growth that Obama's job plan is projected to add if enacted in full (as projected by independent economists and the Congressional Budget Office). So where are the jobs that these job creators are creating with their tax breaks over 30 years? Where is the trickle down that has been promised? Where? When? How long are these tea drinkers going to expect us to believe this corrupt message?
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 12:38 p.m.
As I predicted. Your point is moot. Yes Ed, banks invest a legal portion of the stored money backed by required collateral both in cash held in the bank and in the basis for the loan. They charge slightly higher interest for making the loan, and pay a lower interest on the cash held by their depositors. The difference is their profit. An investment like buying stock, or even a 401K and paying a dividend is a bet. There is no collateral and interest (dividend) is higher based on risk.
YpsiLivin
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:33 a.m.
DonBee, According to the latest labor figures from the BLS, Michigan had a net job gain of 65,300 year-over-year from September 2010 to September 2011 BUT Michigan lost 14,200 jobs between August 2011 and September 2011. Even if your 71K figure is accurate, 20% of the gains in the last year evaporated in a single month. <a href="http://bls.gov/news.release/archives/laus_10212011.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://bls.gov/news.release/archives/laus_10212011.htm</a>
Sparty
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 2:30 a.m.
How many of those jobs created since Jan 1 are due to the auto industry which was saved by President Obama? Is slick Rick trying to take credit for that now as well?
Arborcomment
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:31 a.m.
The 275% for the 1% was from a recent CBO report. The data span was 1979 to 2007. The chart shows a wild fluctuation for the 1% tied to the ups and downs of the economy. For example, the top 1% were at 200% at the end of the Clinton administration but with the Internet bubble and 2001, they lost 50%. From 2002-2007 they regained and surpassed to the 275% cited. Since this data ended in 2007, it will be interesting to see if the same pattern of large loss took place with the 2008 crash. I also find the time span studied for the "1%" curious. While data post 2007 might not yet be available (in this day and age of instant numbers?), the use of 1979 as the starting point is strange. Why not go back an even 30 and use 1977? Could it be that somebody was elected in 79?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 1:09 a.m.
"Since January 1 according to the National Bureau of Labor Statistics - Michigan has created 71,000 new jobs." I guess that that explains why the unemployment rate has gone up since Rick took office? Good Night and Good Luck
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:58 p.m.
Rob - Since January 1 according to the National Bureau of Labor Statistics - Michigan has created 71,000 new jobs. So someone is creating jobs here. Not enough yet, but it is better than the prior 4 years where there was a net loss each year.
Sallyxyz
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:05 p.m.
Trickle down was a myth when it started with Reagan and is still fiction. If in doubt, look at the last 30 years.
Chase Ingersoll
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:12 p.m.
PBS actually gave some of the best coverage of the 1% issue. What they pointed out is that the 1% $350k per year is generally in the financial services or high tech field. Also notable, but rarely pointed out is that at 50k of earning you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the US. When PBS noted those whose wage had not kept pace with the 1% it was primarily those who were in the unskilled labor and service sectors who had lost those jobs to technology innovation and globalization which actually raised the incomes of unskilled workers around the world during the same time period. The problem with focusing the battle against the 1% is that technology and financial services especially, can be transferred just like we have seen manufacturing transferred. If we lose the 1% who can afford to transfer their wealth and business operations to other jurisdictions, then we are really going to see the collapse of our economy and government which would stand to lose more than a 3rd of the current revenues to the federal treasury. The fallout from this would be an even greater conflict between the 10% that are earning 50k per year or more who would have to shoulder an even greater of the public welfare overhead used by those who are not producing goods or services that are desirable in our local or national economy, much less around the world. Many of you are so against hearing the following that you will refuse to acknowledge it's validity even though it is occuring all around you:: how can my business compete in a global marketplace, if the products and services I am offering cost more than others of similar quality, and my higher costs are directly related to y labor costs here in Michigan. Specifically - it is not just the large corporations that are outsourcing. Even the smallest real estate agent, travel agency and plumbing contractor are now outsourcing parts of their office operations to labor forces in other countries for $2-3 per hour.
clownfish
Sun, Oct 30, 2011 : 10:54 a.m.
If Supply Side economic theory worked we would be seeing job growth and a rise in more peoples wages. Guess what? If waving a flag is patriotic, what is keeping your money in the US? Why do people attack others for not being "patriotic enough" when they oppose an expensive war or protest governmental policies, but when it comes to keeping your money here, well, then it is "just business"? The top 1% got that way because of our system, not in spite of it and they should pay it forward.
Aaron Wolf
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:41 p.m.
These are valid points, and they get into the whole complex issues of the pros and cons of globalism etc. But it's actually pretty simple: the wealth isn't trickling down. The majority of the 1% are not making it rich because they are creating wealth, they are getting it by playing the system in a way to hoard more of the wealth that independently exists. If we lose stock traders and financial connivers and short-term-focused irresponsible developers, it will not hurt us! In fact, if we just destroyed much of the wealth of the 1% instead of redistributing it, that would probably still be net positive result given all the benefits of a more equitable society. Watch this short scientific presentation about equality and quality of life: <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html</a>
glacialerratic
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:39 p.m.
This post expresses wonderfully the contempt of the financial class for the nation whose institutions, infrastructure and laws enable them to prosper. As a group, this class of crassly self-interested crony financial capitalists have wrecked its manufacturing capacity and ruined its ability to innovate. Sophisticated financial instruments? Sophisticated theft. This group has never held any loyalty but to their appetites. Give us what we want or will reduce this country to ruins? Treason.
DonBee
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:57 p.m.
Jake C - Go back and study the tax rates and impacts on the UK in the 1970s and 1980s, so many people of wealth transferred it out of the country, the country stagnated for more than 20 years. In the end it was PM Thatcher who changed the tax rates and restarted the UK economy. Those who do not study history.....
Sallyxyz
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 8:07 p.m.
If there was an affordable, comprehensive national health plan, employers wouldn't be saddled with paying for employee health care. That would make the US much more competitive. Name one other developed country that doesn't have national health care.
Jake C
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:59 p.m.
"If we lose the 1%[...]" Uh, by definition of "The Top 1%" that's quite literally impossible. If Bill Gates decides he dislikes having his taxes raised by 10% and moves to Somalia, then someone else will take his place in the top 1%. And let's be honest, where else in the world exactly would these top-of-the-Top-1% actually move to? Socialist France? Socialist Sweden? Communist China? Galt's Gulch? 3rd-world Mexico? It's hard to take that sort of warning as anything but a childish "I'll take my football and go home" mentality.