Really?

Mon, Jan 4, 2010 : 8:44 p.m.

Fraser is hitting up the FD to take massive cuts and wants to cut the people as well. However, you haven't heard of him and the mayor cutting their pay have you? His "I'd like to see all Union and Non-Union employees in the city take a 3% cut." I guess that doesn't apply to them though. Also, why is it that they are attacking the FD with a 90 person union hasn't had a raise and is giving cuts to their wages, but then the AFSCME union (243 people) just got a raise. Does something see a little odd here?

vance g wiseman

Mon, Jan 4, 2010 : 8:48 a.m.

I said this 20 years ago when I worked as a temp for the Compost Dept under Parks and Rec., Parks are nice but they cost too Darn (edited for the kids)much. If you knock out the money spent on parks land aquisition and maintenance, you would not have to worry about paying for the FD. The FD is an essential service there is no doubt. How much does one tree on main street cost from planting to trimming to removing / replacing? Come on people the times are forcing us to do lean up (cut the fat), when there are only cans of beans in the cupboard you don't cook steaks!!!!!!!!!!! The time has come to face reality. Parks and the Arts are not essential services. Yes they are nice to have, but they cost too darn much. This is true for any town / city, big or small. I want a Fireman to recue my friends, to save the rest of houses on the block. I want roads I can actually do the posted speed limit on. But the state of MI. just cannot afford the luxury's anymore. So please open your eyes to this simple fact," THE GOOD TIMES ARE OVER FOR A LONG TIME!". It's time to cook at home instead of spending 3 times as much at a restoraunt. Its time to do what we have to and not what we want to! And in closing I will wager that all these pay cuts start at the bottom and don't trickle up!!!!!!!!!!

a2grateful

Fri, Dec 25, 2009 : 8:32 a.m.

Does anyone calling for an income tax believe the additional revenue would be spent any differently than it is now?. Something else needs to happen to halt the current folly expenditures and gross inefficiencies. Otherwise, get used to continued decline of City services, in number and quality.. Anyone want to debate this in proximity of the $1mil statue?

scooter dog

Thu, Dec 24, 2009 : 8:26 p.m.

I want to come back to this area in say 75 or so yrs and see what the city of ann arbor is doing when the university owns 75 to 100 % of all the buildings and property in the area.At the rate their gobbling up properties it won't takle long before the city won't have any tax base.

Lokalisierung

Thu, Dec 24, 2009 : 12:33 p.m.

Income tax NOW!

Gill

Thu, Dec 24, 2009 : 11:25 a.m.

Anyone who lives in A2 should support the income tax proposal - it will lower your property taxes (great for retirees). Anyone who lives and works in the City will see a negligible change in taxes. The only ones who should be upset are those that don't live in the City but work here - and they will not get to vote on it. Why are things like the golf courses still being funded (half a million a year) when we are talking about privatizing solid waste pickup (do we need to pay more to the private company?)?

racerx

Thu, Dec 24, 2009 : 2:09 a.m.

Needless to say, the city has been mismanaged for years and to listen to these posts and blaming the FF is pointless. Yes, both the PD and FF make up a huge portion of the city budget, but is it really these employees faults for the financial mess that the city is in? No! Stop blaming them please. These very hard working employees have family's to feed, mortgages to meet, educations to fund. Can anyone blame them for looking out for their bottom line? With an economy in such shape as Michigan's, it'll be hard for anyone to find a job in this state. City Hall is top heavy as UnionMan1 states. When I was employed with the city, my department had five supervisors/managers for 14 employees. This could've easily been reduced to 2 if just one employee had certain skill sets. This is an area that really needs to be addressed. If employee's have to learn different skill sets to functions in dual job duties, why not management? The FrasMaHall wasn't needed. I don't care how you slice it. An agreement could had been worked out with the County to allow the courts to continue where it was. With each entity (County, City) reducing services, how can one justify this space? At $40M and with Pfizer moving out a better conclusion could have been made. I also have to agree with UnionMan1 that certain department heads who live in other communities is questionable. I would think that one loses the pulse of the city and not fully understanding the needs of the community. If, as I, they only drove across the Stadium Blvd. bridge each day maybe they'd have a different prospective on "core" city services. Good luck with the council coming to ANY understanding over the issues facing the city from a monetary point. The funding for $1M...ahem...art..in front of FrasMaHall shows where their priorities lie (thank you Mr. Kunselman!). A city income tax is not the answer either. The city simply has to reduce services and control its spending to only essentialy city services instead of these pet projects of certain people (can anyone say Greenbelt?). Good luck to those employee's who remain standing after Fraser's farewell speech at the Michigan Theatre. This is just another one of his "layoff's are coming so prepare yourself" moments. All the while he'll soak and bask in the glow of his newest building while roads continue to fall apart, bridges crumble, grass in parks unmowed and citizen's safety at risk each and every day. Well my beloved A2, you get the politicians you elected.

voiceofreason

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 11:16 p.m.

Unionman, If allowing 14 fellow firefighters to be fired because you didn't want to take a small pay cut is "Normal Thinking", then you are correct......I can't understand "Normal Thinking".

voiceofreason

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:54 p.m.

Unionman, If the people at the top have such an easy and unnecessary job, perhaps it might be wise to apply for the next opening........

UnionMan1

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:27 p.m.

Voiceofreason, I understand how the world works and I can deal with whatever happens. I am just saying that the cuts need to start at the top, not the bottom. Do you ever think Roger, Sue, or Jayne will ever throw trash, fix a broken water main, plow snow, battle a fire, chase a bank robber, replace a broken traffic light, or anything hard labor related. The City is way to top heavy. We do not need so many Managers and supervisors. Most of them do not know what our jobs are all about watching from their office windows.

UnionMan1

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:25 p.m.

Voiceofreason, I understand how the world works and I can deal with whatever happens. I am just saying that the cuts need to start at the top, not the bottom. Do you ever think Roger, Sue, or Jayne will ever throw trash, fix a broken water main, plow snow, battle a fire, chase a bank robber, replace a broken traffic light, or anything hard labor related. The City is way to top heavy. We do not need so many Managers and supervisors. Most of them do not know what our jobs are all about watching from their office windows.

CityFF

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:21 p.m.

Voiceofreason sounds reasonable but I am going to have to disagree. Just look at the brand new city hall with the $800,000 water fountain that is being built. Is that to keep taxes down? Are those steps to get rid of bloat? I know they have their "buckets" of money that can be used for one thing and not the other but I am pretty sure its still tax dollars paying for that. Unless there is a new source of income the city has that I am unaware of.

voiceofreason

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 8:59 p.m.

Unionman, Regardless of any justification or reasoning you have to give, there comes a point where people no longer are willing to stretch empathy beyond reasonable sanity. If compensation for jobs reaches a point where these jobs have priced themselves out of the market, regardless of any scapegoat you can find, it is time to look within. Because City employees work for the people of Ann Arbor, when personal finances are strained to ridiculous levels, the people of Ann Arbor will choose to sacrifice your job before they sacrifice their own home. I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but this is the reality of the situation.

UnionMan1

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 8:30 p.m.

Look, I am a City of Ann Arbor employee and have been for a number of years. I love this City and my job in Field Operations. The Firefighters only have what the City has aloud them to have. I disagree with the fact that Roger Frasier, Sue McCormick, Chief Jones and other City leaders don't live in the City. City leaders should be required to live in the City limits! I support all of the "rank and file workers" that our City has. I would if I didn't work for the City. Firefighters, Police Officers, and Field Operation Employees are on call 24/7. We work Holidays, weekends, scheduled days off, and basicly anytime that we are needed. We are here for the citizens. Roger gets money for the car he drives, the gas his car takes, lunches, dinners, breakfasts, and many other bonuses that the public does not see. While I like the fact he wants to keep employees informed, why spend money on the Michigan theater? We just build the Wheeler Service Center and there is plenty of room their. Before people bash Unions and there workers they should educate themselves on the work employees do and the things they deal with on a day to day basis. You should all support your City workers and what they do.

UnionMan1

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 8:29 p.m.

Look, I am a City of Ann Arbor employee and have been for a number of years. I love this City and my job in Field Operations. The Firefighters only have what the City has aloud them to have. I disagree with the fact that Roger Frasier, Sue McCormick, Chief Jones and other City leaders don't live in the City. City leaders should be required to live in the City limits! I support all of the "rank and file workers" that our City has. I would if I didn't work for the City. Firefighters, Police Officers, and Field Operation Employees are on call 24/7. We work Holidays, weekends, scheduled days off, and basicly anytime that we are needed. We are here for the citizens. Roger gets money for the car he drives, the gas his car takes, lunches, dinners, breakfasts, and many other bonuses that the public does not see. While I like the fact he wants to keep employees informed, why spend money on the Michigan theater? We just build the Wheeler Service Center and there is plenty of room their. Before people bash Unions and there workers they should educate themselves on the work employees do and the things they deal with on a day to day basis. You should all support your City workers and what they do.

voiceofreason

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 7:11 p.m.

And to be honest, I don't really blame them. I suppose it is a good thing that the people running the city actually return to reality on a nightly basis.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 7:10 p.m.

Another way of looking at it RU4A2 is they are too high and a city income tax would be nice right about now.

RU4A2

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 7:05 p.m.

Voiceofreason-Yes you are right. Taxes are high in A2. Thats why are leaders like Fraser, McCormick and Jones don't live in the community they rule!

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 7:05 p.m.

Ok thanks Really? I did not know that fact.

CityFF

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 7:02 p.m.

You have to remember that these are emergencies to the people involoved. They called 911 and HVA does request us. Those involved want people there to help as quickly as possible. Most of the time that is the FD. I guarantee you that anyone from HVA would tell you how important it is to have firefighters at medicals. Especially if they just cleared a call with a 200 lbs man on the 3rd floor that just had a heart attack.

voiceofreason

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:55 p.m.

To be entirely honest, I am shocked that Ann Arbor has more than 14 firefighters to begin with. Fraser is simply taking the necessary steps to remove residual bloat from the system, left over from when there was higher tax revenue. People on the verge of losing employment, I have sympathy for you. However, we have come to a point where you have priced yourselves out of the market. City Council is finally beginning to realize that property tax rates in Ann Arbor are outrageous, and currently many people are purchasing property outside of the city to avoid them. I applaud the Council for thinking into the future, and for not buckling under pressure from "The Loud, Angry voices" of the vocal minority at each meeting.

RU4A2

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:55 p.m.

Thank you A2 firefighters. I won't feel as safe as I used to. Shame on you folks. I hope you all are lucky enough not to need them.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:48 p.m.

@Loka, just a point of fact, HVA requests AAFD to the medicals they want us on. We don't pick and choose. Most of the time we are there to augment their trucks. Meaning, if they can't fulfill the contract with the city to get an ambulance there in the necessary time to help someone, they will send fire. @Snapshot, aren't you the same individual that told us what a great Navy fireman you were and could handle all these fires on his own? If you have an intelligent question regarding what's going on with this city, ask. I'm not entertaining your own ego.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:25 p.m.

Medical emergencies 3313 responses YTD This is the majority of responses and I'm wondering how many of them are honestly needed? If we're really looking at it objectively, does HVA really need AAFD staff there? Now I'm pretty sure you'd get 2 different answers from the AAFD & HVA crowds. Of course that doesn't address the need that if there is in fact a fire you need X amount of FF on call to handle it. So how much money would you really save by not sending FF out to these calls? probably just gas money.

snapshot

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:15 p.m.

Hey Really, you are "Really" full of yourself, aren't you? You need a break from that ego of yours. Here's a competance test, what's the flash point of paper, cotton, what's purple K, how hot does magnesium burn. Respond quickly without researching it.

CityFF

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 6:11 p.m.

Whether or not you agree with the pay and benefits of a firefighter I would like to think you relize the importance of a firefighter. If you do agree that firefighters have an important job that needs to be done then I urge you to act. This blog is not the place to show your support. Contacting your council person is. If you feel that we are not needed and if you have the opinion we only go on 250 fire calls per year then I ask you to read this: http://www.iaff-local693.org/docs/What%20we%20do.doc In 2 weeks you will be left with the remains of a fire department that is going to struggle to provide quality service.

braggslaw

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 5:44 p.m.

If a job is unpleasant and you don't like it... quit. It's that simple. If this is the only job you can get, you should be thankful since so many people are out of work.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 5:37 p.m.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is based on someone that is a fireman, has been an office worker, a plumber, and a construction worker. You're right, construction work was hard. However, when you compare to working on a car wreck or a fire, firefighting is by far more strenuous and demanding. Also keep in mind that when I went to work at a construction site, I knew what I was in for for the day. As a firefighter, you'll be in your bunk sleeping at 3am and all the lights will come on and the siren will go off. You don't brush your teeth, comb your hair, or go to the bathroom. You hussle to the truck and your body just went from dead rest to 110%. I don't expect you to understand what I mean unless you've been doing it for a few years. But look up what Doctors have to say about it and what it does to your heart and body in general. I mean don't take my word for it...

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 5:29 p.m.

Sure i may sound a little attacky sometimes so let me state for the record that FF need to keep in shape and be ready to put down their lives for other and that's a great thing, no way around that. My point is I disagree that your daily work is head and shoulders above other people's work in society as a whole. I think you're infalting what you do "on a daily basis" with what COULD happen on a daily basis. As in I don't a FF normal daily activities are more physically taxing then say a construction worker, or a garbage man, or a day laborer...etc. But that's just my opinion...and in my opinion all these jobs are extremely important to society. My fault about the 85 years comment I didn't see that was in reference to somone else.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 5:15 p.m.

Not to sound like an attack, but what's your point? Yes, we have the stations setup like a home, because, you guessed it... it is. Did you have an issue with the fact that we have kitchens and exercise equipment? "but let's not act like everyday is filled with life saving fire rescues and death defying heorosim." So since NFL teams only play once a week, there's really no need for them to keep in shape 24/7 and work out when there's no game being played, right? The 85 comment was to the individual saying WE live to 85 and beyond. Don't know where he's getting his facts... probably the same place most people who comment do...

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 5:01 p.m.

For the most part I don't like to undermine what FF do...but there comes a point where even i have to step in. "Do you think you could be doing the physical demands of the job past your 50's? I'd challenge most folks to spend a day with us to find out." Xbox, excersize machines, tvs, a kitchen....etc. I mean i get it, FF work long shifts and the space DOES need to be set up like a family/home environment. Also true many activities/work duties are tough to do in your 60s of this I have no doubt....but let's not act like everyday is filled with life saving fire rescues and death defying heorosim. "And the sad truth is this... most of us DO NOT live to 85." Well this is a super nit pick but most most any of us do not live till we're 85...cubicle or driving a truck and watching HVA administer help to injured people.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 4:42 p.m.

Groland... Yes, firefighters do retire after 25 or 30 years, depending. Also keep in mind the type of work we do. Do you think you could be doing the physical demands of the job past your 50's? I'd challenge most folks to spend a day with us to find out. Your idea of making them admins. has one larger problem. When we're only allowed so many firefighters in the department, we need the 'older' people to retire in order to get younger, fresh bodies back 'on the line'. This is not a young man's game, and it takes a serious toll on the body. I don't know of anyone who I work with that doesn't have back problems. And the sad truth is this... most of us DO NOT live to 85. There are exceptions like anywhere, I'm sure. When you breath toxic smoke (yes we have masks, but there are limitations), or constantly abusing your body to help someone else... well, it doesn't make for a cushy life. Don't get me wrong, I decided to get in this line of work, I wasn't forced. Just like I'd go crazy sitting in a cubicle for the rest of my life... but I'm sure I'd live much longer. Also know that in Ann Arbor, firefighters don't start out at 20 years old anymore. The city wants educated individuals who have real world experience in other sectors before joining. And when you say "firemen and police need not continue to do the physically demanding work..." Do you want someone to NOT pull you out of a car or burning house, or maybe spend 30 minutes doing compressions on your chest after a heart attack because of that statement? I would think that most residents would expect all firefighters to be physically able to do the tasks at hand. While I have the utmost respect for teachers and what they do (mainly having to deal with the parents), please don't compare the life of a teacher or other public worker to that of a fireman. This is in no way a knock on teachers or any other public worker. I'm just pointing out that the work environmet, as you already know, is not one of comparable standards.

groland

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 4:24 p.m.

Any older municipality needs to address the legacy costs of retirement and health benefits. We cannot continue to have cit employees retire after 30 years of service with full benefits. Some of these people are 50 years old and will live to 85 or beyond. No one in the private sector has that luxury. Even social security is bumping up the retirement age to 66. Teachers, policemen, firefighters need not continue to do the physically demanding work, but they could be moved to admin. positions and their wealth of experience be seen as an asset, while continuing at the same pay scale.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 2:56 p.m.

I was lucky to have a link just forwarded to me via email. I'm just going to post it and leave it at that. http://cynthiadamour.com/2009/12/23/ann-arbor-fire-department/

yourdad

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 2:38 p.m.

So I guess this is just Fraser's way of saying merry Christmas and thanks for all you've done for the city and it's citizens. I didn't realize that the view from Scio township was so rosey when you look to the east. I am starting to think that Roger is just a powerfully placed union basher.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 12:53 p.m.

Hopefully it will be on the next election but they took it off the last one which really irked me. So many people complain that the council is wasting money and doing secret deals and all sorts of tin foil hat stuff, but they're so happy somthing didn't go on the ballot so residents could engage in *shudder* the democratic process.

Karen Sidney

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 12:39 p.m.

We've heard that Fraser expects revenue to be down but what about expenses? If you look at the FY09 audit, you can see that actual general fund expenses came in $3.1 million under budget. The FY08 audit shows actual expenses came in almost $3 million under budget. The FY09 audit shows actual general fund expenses of just under $84 million. The audit committee was told that about $8 million of the expenses were due to the police early out and a back wage settlement on a union contract. If you back out these two items, it leaves $76 million in expenses, which is the amount of FY10 projected revenue. The actual general fund expenses for the first 5 months are $30.4 million or about $6.1 million per month. If spending continues at the same rate, FY10 general fund expenses will be about $73 million. The actual expenses include all fire fighters but 8 fewer police officers than budgeted. These 8 positions have not been filled. To really understand what is going on, we need to see projected FY10 expenses based on actual spending and that takes into account the 8 fewer people in the police department and vacancies in other general fund departments. We need to see the full picture, not just the selective information Fraser, and perhaps some council members, want us to see.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 12:30 p.m.

City income tax would help. I agree with Really? aboot the building aspect though. No one wants to build anything in this down because our planning commission has always been just wacky. Consistantly (for the 10 years I've been keeping track) developers plans meet the needed criteria and still they are denied for no reason other than personal feeling from the commissioners.

braggslaw

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 11:36 a.m.

There was a proposal for a city income tax. Thankfully it never got off the ground. This is simple folks, less money = less services. The private sector has laid off 100's of thousand of employees. The public sector is not a protected class. As a taxpayer I expect services to be cut due to the loss of revenues.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 11:13 a.m.

@braggslaw... what are you referring to when you say public sector employees raising taxes to preserve their benefits? Are you talking about the 2x cuts FD took to keep trucks on the road for YOUR safety? Or are you talking about the +$800k additional they cut out of the budget to continue to keep trucks on the road for YOUR safety? I missed the part where the FD ever said they wanted a tax increase or that they wanted a raise. Clearly you will be so kind as to point us all in the direction of the article you read that stated that.

braggslaw

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 10:57 a.m.

Fewer private sector jobs = less tax money = fewer govt. employees. That is the way it work. If there is less tax money than services need to be cut. As an employee of a private company that cut my salary 10% due to the economic times, I have no sympathy for public employees trying to raise taxes to preserve their benefits.

Fred Posner

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 10:17 a.m.

I wonder how much the city is paying in costs for theater, "refreshments," or whatever printed materials they'll make on this upcoming meeting to discuss their lack of money.

Really?

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:36 a.m.

The "percent for art" clan created their own nice little spin. Art isn't a core service, it's a 'core value'. On that list that Fraser sent out all the the action items were ended with "we need to investigate further". Wow, no sacred cows in this city right Fraser? You'll cut 14 firefighters and agree to close stations with out any type of plan, but will research the crap out of everything else before making a decision. One day we might actually get a city council in place that understands the fact that he works for them, not the other way around. So far, there's only one on the entire council that is in touch with any type of reality. Anyone that attends the meetings will know the man I'm speaking of.

Awakened

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:32 a.m.

I dont believe that the city had any way to stop the Pfizer donation. The continuing construction of the new, glamorous, multi-million dollar City Council addition to the rear of the Larcom building is a travesty. And I think all the council persons should call town halls at their local firestations. It may be the last time they get to see them.

Porksword

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 9:05 a.m.

Oh no no no. You can't build in Ann Arbor. Because then Ann Arbor wouldn't be Ann Arbor anymore. Unless you're the City, then you can build a new City Hall. That is much more important than retaining jobs. They obviously need more room to do nothing. If they are so concerned about revenue coming in, why did they just let Pfizer donate their facility to the UofM? Pretty sure they lost a nice chunk of property tax revenue there.

xmo

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 8:50 a.m.

I am sorry about the workers who will loose or lost jobs but the City and the State need to reduce the service levels to match the population/revenue decline. One solution to increase revenue is to make it easier for the developers to get projects thru the city's building permit process. Build baby build!

a2grateful

Wed, Dec 23, 2009 : 8:15 a.m.

"Clearly, this is a time of additional uncertainty," he wrote. "Financially, no recent budget has allowed us to maintain the status quo. No previous budget has been as dire, however, as this.". Hopefully, they won't have a rendering of the $1 million statue in the meeting room, as they announce the dire news.. An idea for all "the powers that be" at a2 City Hall: A special bonus for your holiday stocking this year is a commemorative hunk of fallen concrete from the Stadium Bridge.. Admire the concrete for the next year... sleep with it under your pillows... carry it with you at work everyday.... Please find understanding of what is truly important for the City: Essential City services... City employees that directly provide essential City services.... In case it has been forgotten essential services are usually identified by elements of public safety and health.... Typical City hype, fashion, and folly are no longer needed, desired, or called for. Start the budget reformation without these to find the answers...