Posted on Sat, Feb 26, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.
Workers rally in Lansing to support Wisconsin unions, attack Snyder's plan to tax pensions
By Cindy Heflin
Virg Bernero
The rally at noon was among similar demonstrations held today in all 50 states and endorsed by more than a dozen organizations, including the political action group MoveOn.org. Wisconsin workers are in a battle with Gov. Scott Walker over a proposal to strip them of collective bargaining rights. Thousands of Wisconsin workers filled streets in Madison again today to oppose the bill, The Associated Press reported. Rallies have been going on for 12 days.
In Lansing today, some speakers attacked Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder's plan to tax pensions and cut business taxes, the Free Press reported.
Snyder, an Ann Arbor businessman, defeated Bernero to win the governorship in November.
Comments
Cathy M.
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 3:10 p.m.
I was at the rally Saturday with my husband and son, and it wasn't all union folks. In fact, none of the 3 of us are. What we are are citizens concerned about losing our voices to corporations. To quote Paul Krugman in his excellent article called "Shock Doctrine, USA", (which was in AnnArbor.com but I can't find their's online, so here it is elsewhere: <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_17483667?nclick_check=1" rel='nofollow'>http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_17483667?nclick_check=1</a> ) "What's happening in Wisconsin is a power grab -- an attempt to exploit the fiscal crisis to destroy the last major counterweight to the political power of corporations and the wealthy." This is scary stuff - we all need to be paying attention.
snapshot
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 11:29 p.m.
Maybe if these folks spent more time working and less time figuring out how to bilk the taxpayers out of more money and benefits they would fare much better in the public relations arena. They say they will make concessions, then they want them back or take it to court to have it reversed. I don't see any other alternative but to curb their power through legislation. The electorate has spoken and we outnumber the union members by tenfold. We'll get our way and they get the highway.
sh1
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 5:10 p.m.
A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "Watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."
catfishrisin
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 3:44 p.m.
Sorry Virg, The people were duped into voting for Rick. We need you.
jayarr
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
"Wow, a whopping 2000 people showed up in Lansing, bet every one of them is a union hack too. The union's know their days are numbered , their ridiculous benefits and healthcare have been exposed and their gravy train has blown a gasket. Time to get rid of and outlaw public sector unions." As unions have declined in America, so have workers rights. In the 1950s, America's economy was good---for everyone, not just the wealthiest 1 percent. Only 12% of workers in America are unionized, so it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that they destroyed the current economy. They simply do not have that much control. Union workers haven't had a "gravy train" in a long time. Big corporations, and all those who take advantage of hard working people (like day traders and coordinators of pyramid schemes) are to blame. And they are boasting larger profits than ever as more and more people become either unemployed or under employed. Once unions are destroyed completely (if that happens), we'll have no more workers' rights in this country. It's time to outlaw mergers and monopolies and bail outs for corporations who do not care about American workers. Corporations do not obviously care about reviving America's economy, because their increased profits are funding the creation of new jobs.
snapshot
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 6:21 p.m.
Jayarr, That 12% you talk about is responsible for the majority of the unfunded debt of states, counties, and cities. Do you think that's fair? Unions are in fact a monompoly. If they were a business they would be subject to anti trust laws and be broken up to reduce their price fixing, unfair labor practices.
jayarr
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.
Typo: Corporations do not obviously care about reviving America's economy, because their increased profits are NOT funding the creation of new jobs.
snoopdog
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:12 p.m.
"It takes two parties to negotiate a contract, snoopdog. Why are the unions to blame?" SonnyDog09 said it well SalineMary. Unions across this country pour "hundreds of millions" of dollars into getting politicians elected and then these same politicians negotiate with these unions on their pay/pensions and healthcare. It is a scam and it should be outlawed. In the private sector, unions negotiate with management and if the management gives away too much their companies go out of business ( except GM and Chrysler). In the public sector they simply raise taxes on the poor taxpayer. Well, finally, it appears the tide is turning.
bugjuice
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 1:27 a.m.
Conservatives, Republican and their anti union supporters like corporations (who may now give unlimited amounts of secret political donations) and the US Chamber of Commerce pour millions of dollars into union busting propaganda and financial support of politicians who favor their position. There's no difference except that Republicans get their money from Corporations and CEO's and Democrats get their from unionized and non unionized working people. Donations and lobbying influence from corporations (less regulation and more tax breaks) and wealthy (bailed out) CEO's far exceed union donations and influence to politicians.
Steve Krause
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:34 p.m.
I dunno, but it seems like "management" generally gets better deals than the workers in the union in most settings-- better work, better pay, at least as decent benefits, etc. I think that maybe we ought to outlaw management. And really, the other thing I don't understand is why so many people want to take something away from people who are in unions. What really should be going on is that the folks who don't have those benefits ought to be trying to get them.
SonnyDog09
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.
"It takes two parties to negotiate a contract, snoopdog. Why are the unions to blame?" The problem is that the system allows unions to negotiate with politicians that they help to elect. The sweeter a deal that the politician gives to their union supporters, the more campaign contributions they will receive from those unions. After all, the politician isn't going to be responsible for paying those retirement and healthcare costs. The taxpayer is left holding the bag. In private industry, unions negotiate with management.
bugjuice
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 1:19 a.m.
Public unions also negotiate with management and here in Ann Arbor that is Roger Fraser. Municipal union contracts are far more often than not negotiated by the municipalities management employees or by hired negotiators. I've never heard of an elected official being part of a bargaining team. It's also very unusual for elected officials to know contract details because most parties involved in negotiating agree to not speak about the negotiations away from the bargaining table.
snapshot
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 6:16 p.m.
I agree with you Sonnydog. Roger makes the assumption that public union employees are all hard working, dedicated, educated, overqualified, and work their tails off for the citizens which is not the case. Unions stand in the way of management to function efficiently, productively, and creatively with employee accountability. That's why there are so many failures of these agencies that result in disasterous consequences with complete immunity. Undue union influence is the cause of BILLIONS of unfunded debt owed to public union employees. It's time for a change because taxpayers want their money's worth from public employees and we're not getting it.
Roger Roth
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.
But states are still required to submit balanced budgets. If the public sector has opted for relatively low paying jobs, in many cases notwithstanding being highly qualified and educated because of the offsetting relatively generous health and pension benefit, why target those offsets? Can you attract qualified workers if you have nothing at all to offer them? What next? 50 hour work week and minimum wage? Or do you balance like GM came back to profitability, i.e., trim the size of government to a point where there are few if any services (workers) and their benefits. This is little more than a further upward transfer of wealth. Time to put on those brakes. What we're seeing is not only a transfer from the poor to the rich, but from states to the fed. Talk about lobbying and greasing! People had better wake up. It gets continually worse for the middle class in America.
Salinemary
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 1:11 p.m.
It takes two parties to negotiate a contract, snoopdog. Why are the unions to blame?
SonnyDog09
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 1:04 p.m.
What alternatives were offered at the rally? The article did not say. It's ironic to see the dem's become "the party of no."
redblue
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 7:44 a.m.
It's obvious that most of the people who support Snyder are older people. The people are coming out to rally at the capitol to fight back against this insane wave of republican stupidity that swept the U.S. in November.
Barking Bear
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 10:32 a.m.
You mean you didn't like the election results?
snoopdog
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 3:02 a.m.
Wow, a whopping 2000 people showed up in Lansing, bet every one of them is a union hack too. The union's know their days are numbered , their ridiculous benefits and healthcare have been exposed and their gravy train has blown a gasket. Time to get rid of and outlaw public sector unions.
Joe Hood
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:56 a.m.
If people don't have jobs to pay taxes, then how can these public sector unions feel they have a right to continue with unsustainable and unmatched benefits? Is Hu really their daddy?
Joe Hood
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
@Roger: It isn't just DC, the issue follows governments all the way down to the local level. Governments have an issue with negotiating with themselves. I do agree that many public sector jobs are lower waged but many aren't.
Roger Roth
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 4:05 p.m.
Because they've opted for generally lower paying public sector jobs with trade-offs of reasonable health and pension benefits. It's not their fault that the actions and negligence of DC (incl. Wall Street and Banks) have jeopardized the sustainability of those benefits. Taxpayer ire is misdirected; it should be aimed at DC, not middle class workers.
margie
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:52 a.m.
Michigan deserves fiscal responsibility from collaboration and shared concessions. Placing the burden on one group and vilifying public servants who teach our children, protect us from fire/crime, clean our buildings, watch over prisoners, etc...is just wrong. The facts are that state workers are more educated than the private sector by at least 20 to 30 percent. It is also a fact that these professionals make far less money than the private sector and take care of everyone not just the people who can afford to pay, that is what we expect state workers to do. Knowing these facts, makes this budget issue nonsense. Our millionaire gov. is standing firm on a budget that destroy potential new businesses for MI, new taxes on pensions and multiple concessions by state employees....because he is giving huge salaries to the people he has brought in to the state (don't forget just two of those folks now make 250K each), and the wealthy will be getting more than they deserve with a tax cut from Snyder that is really causing a big part of this budget shortfall. Don't forget Snyder sent many jobs to China and was mentioned by Scott Walker in that prank call that he would do much more if he had the support. We should all want MI to be on a sound fiscal path with concessions by all...BUT the fact is not everyone is making concessions. Our fiscal path should not be obtained by some national plan by the Republican party or the Koch Brothers but by the people of Michigan. Our fiscal path should also be obtained by collaboration with all parties looking at where money is being wasted throughout the state not vilifying one group as the main reason for budget issues. If Snyder and his high salaried state workers who made this budget want boldness they should look at the waste spent on the multiple school districts, charter schools, superintendents & ISD's first before going after the state workers ant the union.
Joe Hood
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 3:01 a.m.
This issue is not just public unions, there are a slew of other programs that are being hit really hard that contribute to economic good. The shot across the bow has been fired, now is the time to do the homework to show the return on investment of these programs (and alternatives). Good teachers should earn big money ($150K plus benefits), just as good executives their salaries. $250K might sound like a glorious figure but rip out benefits and see where that figure sits.
Roger Roth
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:07 a.m.
Think about it: Wealthy Republican governors have conspired to amp up the war on middle class workers after 8 years of Republican rule in Washington saw our elected politicians (Republican and Democrats) magically find trillions of middle class taxpayer dollars to fund illegal, unnecessary wars (which fatten the coffers of the MIC) and trillions to bail out Wall Street and Banks too big to fail, only to tell us they're out of money and that we have to pony up again. What about this don't people get? We're being had. The solution to states woes is simple. There are a thousand billion in a trillion. Print three or four more trillion or so and divide it amongst the 50 states. Problem solved and don't give us the deficit crap. I bet my 10 year-old car that, when the criminals on Wall Street and in the banking industry get into trouble again--and they most assuredly will because they can and are rewarded for it--or when the MIC holds out its hand for funds for another bogus war, our D.C. politicians (who obviously couldn't care less about the working class) will hasten to pull off another magic trick and find the money.
David Briegel
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 6:42 p.m.
Actually, Republicans DID bail out Wall St and AIG. And those commies at Goldman Sachs got much more than their share!
snapshot
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 6:08 p.m.
Roger, I agree but you left out the one sided negotiations of unions for inflated wages and benefits sponsered by the elected benefactors called Democrats. Republicans would not have bailed out the auto companies, AIG or Wall Street. My car is 17 years old.
Townie
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 12:01 a.m.
I'm going to take a big hit but it's almost worth it when I think about Tim Walberg is going to hit hard too. Now if we can just cut his big federal pension from being a politician it would complete the picture and make 'shared sacrifice' fairer. Barking Bear: Actually the number of state workers in Michigan has: 'In the seven years beginning in 2001, it declined rapidly, mainly through attrition, falling by 18 per cent, or 11,000 total workers.' Now it's a lot of fun at the Secretary of State and any state agency trying to get much done - long lines, few people behind the counters. But that's what you wanted so I assume you don't complain.
Barking Bear
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
I didn't say State workers. I said public sector. PS I don't have any trouble at the Sec. of State and the hours are fine. They could even be cut some more as far as I am concerned. If the state didn't have their greedy fingers in some many things they could be cut even more but, I know they have to collect those fees and taxes!
Barking Bear
Sat, Feb 26, 2011 : 11:42 p.m.
Taxes are increasing because Michigan has way too many public sector employees!
Cash
Sat, Feb 26, 2011 : 10:47 p.m.
The Detroit News ran this article today showing the impact on the poor and elderly. <a href="http://www.detnews.com/article/20110226/BIZ/102260340/How-Snyder-s-tax-plan-would-affect-8-sample-taxpayers" rel='nofollow'>http://www.detnews.com/article/20110226/BIZ/102260340/How-Snyder-s-tax-plan-would-affect-8-sample-taxpayers</a>
Jacob Bodnar
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 3:02 a.m.
It was also an article about the effects on everyone, not just the poor and elderly. Notice how the highest earners also have a tax INCREASE
bruno_uno
Sat, Feb 26, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
you feel a change coming on unions? this is just the start. sincerely, my grandchildren