Ypsilanti city manager requests review of Tasering and other police procedures
Ypsilanti City Manager Ed Koryzno has asked the police department to review its policies on Tasering, booking procedures, in-car videos and blood draws after a Pittsfield Township resident raised concerns about how a suspected drunken driver’s September arrest was handled.
Doug Smith told the Ypsilanti City Council last week that he believes police used excessive force during the Sept. 25 arrest of Pat Thomas, who was Tasered three times — twice while handcuffed — after officers say he resisted arrest.
Smith obtained records under the Freedom of Information Act, including a video that shows officers putting Thomas down in a puddle of his urine in a cell when he refused to go to the hospital to have his blood drawn.
Koryzno directed Police Chief Amy Walker to review whether the department followed procedures in Thomas' arrest and a number of other arrests selected at random. Walker is expected to provide Koryzno with a report on her findings, but no deadline was set.
“I think (Smith’s) concerns were significant enough that it justified a review of our policies,” Koryzno said.
Walker said the department takes concerns by citizens seriously. She said she doesn't know when the review will be completed. She also said she didn’t think it was appropriate to talk about Thomas’ case because charges against him are pending.
Thomas, 29, is charged with operating while intoxicated third-offense, two counts of resisting and obstructing police officers, operating with a suspended license second-offense and having an open intoxicant in a vehicle. He was originally stopped for a noise violation, but officers later determined he had a blood-alcohol level of 0.14, records show. In Michigan, it's illegal to drive with a blood-alcohol level of .08 or higher.
Smith, who doesn't know Thomas, said he thinks officers went too far.
“I took this up with the council because I viewed the videos and felt that he was Tasered inappropriately the first time and that the Tasering the second and third time was outrageous,” Smith said.
Thomas declined to comment without an attorney present. His attorney, Mohsin Mashhour, said Wednesday he is investigating the matter and "there definitely appears to be some things that occurred that are inappropriate." Mashhour declined to discuss specifics until he has finished looking into the incident.
City Council Member Pete Murdock said he plans to view the videos at the police department this week. "Obviously, you would think when you get those kind of complaints from somebody, you need to follow them up," he said.
The arrest of Pat Thomas
Ypsilanti police pulled over Thomas at 9 p.m. Sept. 25 after hearing loud music coming from his Jeep Liberty near the intersection of Second Street and Monroe Avenue, according to an incident report by Officer Andrew Vainner.
Vainner, who was with Officer Brent Yuchasz, smelled a “strong odor of intoxicants” coming from Thomas' vehicle and saw several open beer cans inside, the report says.
When Vainner told Thomas he was stopped because of loud music, Thomas said police were being racist and began cursing and screaming at Vainner, the report says.
According to the report, Thomas would not provide his license, registration and proof of insurance. He refused to put his car in park and turn it off, the report says. Thomas reportedly said, “you don’t want to find out what will happen when I get out." The audio on the video was not working.
Yuchasz opened the passenger side door, put the vehicle in park and took the keys out of the ignition. Vainner attempted to open the driver's side door, but couldn't. Thomas made a fist, the report says, telling officers he wasn't going to jail.
According to the report, officers pulled out their Tasers, pointed them at Thomas and ordered him out of the vehicle, but he refused to get out.
Vainner was ultimately able to open the door and take off Thomas' seat belt, the report says. Thomas got out of the vehicle in an "aggressive manner," walked toward Vainner and threw a pack of cigarettes on the ground, the report says.
Vainner told Thomas to turn and face the vehicle, with his hands behind his back, warning him to stop or he would be Tasered, the report says.
A video shows Thomas was then shot in the back with a Taser by Yuchasz and fell to the ground. Yuchasz can be seen exiting the driver's side door, holding the Taser.
According to the report, officers handcuffed Thomas, but he refused to get into the patrol car. Vainner attempted to use a jugular notch pressure point to get him to comply, but it failed, the report says.
While Thomas was handcuffed, the report says, he attempted to face officers and kick at them. Yuchasz put the Taser against Thomas' body and Tasered him twice more to get him to comply, the report says.
Warning: This video contains profanity.
At the police station
Officers took Thomas to the police station, where he declined a preliminary breath test and refused a Datamaster test, the report says. He was put in a cell and handcuffed to a bench.
At one point, a video shows, he urinated in the corner of the cell, and the urine pooled in the middle.
Officers told Thomas they obtained a search warrant for a blood sample, and he needed to go to the hospital with them. But he refused and would not stand up, the video shows. After police put him in handcuffs and leg shackles and he was not cooperating, the video shows the two officers put him down in the puddle of urine.
According to the report, officers "were able to move him partially across the floor to a dry section where he had not urinated."
Police waited for medical personnel, who put Thomas on a gurney and took him to St. Joseph Mercy Hospital. His blood was drawn roughly three hours after the initial stop.
Thomas is scheduled to return to court for a preliminary hearing on Feb. 1.
Lee Higgins covers crime and courts for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached by phone at (734) 623-2527 and email at leehiggins@annarbor.com.
Comments
Joe Citizen
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.
@Cash I agree that a review is in order. I'm sure it will show that the officers did what they were supposed to do. There may be a lawsuit or maybe not. It doesn't really matter and does not reflect on whether the officers acted appropriately. People file suits for everything these days. The "damage control" is needed only to appease the idiots who constantly cry police brutality every time someone decides they can do whatever they want and an officer tries to stop them. We all pay for a police force to stop guys like this from hurting someone else. It is strange that people like you expect the officer to "fight fair" in a situation like this where the officer clearly has the obligation to arrest the suspect. You seem to think it is the officer's fault that there will be a lawsuit. It is our society that has made civil suits a regular part of doing business. There is always some idiot who will file suit for a defendant hoping the city will pay out without going to court.
Thomas
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 2:17 p.m.
The first rule of all police officers is, "I'm going home safe tonight!" Not one of us can truly judge what Officer Vainner and Yuchez were feeling when a guy larger than both of them, highly intoxicated, and yelling at them, is not responding to their requests, unless you have been in a similar situation. Tasers are a wonderful invention!! Imagine how the scene that night might have gone down if the YPD didn't have them? It's entirely possible that Mr. Thomas would be dead, instead of sobering up somewhere talking to a lawyer. Mr. Smith needs to look into those two deaths by taser from last year. It's commonly understood that no one dies from taser alone. It's always in conjunction to the drugs in the person's system or some other contributing factor. They are ALWAYS a better choice than the fire arm or the pepper spray that can end up back in the officers face or the baton that can break bones. As far as the cell block video goes, it looks to me as if 250lbs of dead weight gets a little heavy to keep fighting to get to stand up. I see no evidence of his head being forced or shoved near the puddle. He was fighting them and they just gave in to his demands. He wasn't on the ground for more than a few seconds before they reached down and rolled him over. If I were on the jury, I sure wouldn't hold the YPD responsible for what happened that night. They did what they felt they needed to and everyone walked away without injury. Except, maybe to Mr. Thomas's pride. Lastly, I'm with CycleGirl - Seriously?? A protest? Against what? Everyone walking away alive?
trespass
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 6:49 p.m.
If you think no one dies from tasers alone you are buying what the Taser company is selling. What about the Polish immigrant tasered to death in a Canadian airport. He had no drugs in him. What about the woman who was tasered for 120 seconds and died. She had no drugs. Go on the internet and you will find death after death caused by tasers. The Taser company promotes a diagnosis of "Excited Delerium" to explain some deaths when all else fails. Excited delerium was coined to describe certain deaths due to cocaine where the body essentially loses control of the body temperature and the brain essentially cooks. It has been misappropriated to expalin taser related deaths. Head injuries are another serious cause of death due to tasers. If you go on the internet you will see police officers do the craziest things, like tasering a naked psycotic man on a second floor balcony and having him fall to his death.
FredMax
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
This individual created a dangerous situation by disobeying. With the advances he makes in the first video, this could have quickly turned ugly, resulting in real injury or death for any of the involved. There is no evidence here to show otherwise. Be thankful if you dont know what it is like to stand in confrontation, just a few feet away, from an intoxicated, and lawless angry individual. This is not a TV show, these officers are real people trying to do their jobs without being injured or killed. But go ahead, beat up on the police with the second guessing, protests, etc. Perhaps some officers will even be thrown under the bus. Will bring down the crime rate in Ypsi? Are the police responsible for all the rapes, murders, robbings that show up every week in the paper?
CycleGirl
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
ARE YOU KIDDIN' ME.... A rally to protest Police Brutality? Why not a rally in support of YPD Officers that removed another drunk driver off the streets. OR a rally in support of YPD officers for putting their life on the line everyday to keep yours safe. Their arrest of this guy could have potentially saved the life of me and my family, even yours. If you are so fearful of YPD why didn't you leave the city a long time ago. A BETTER IDEA... If you're going to rally people together, have each of them bring a can of food or a pair of gloves to be donated to SOS or some other agency to help those in need. Seriously...
eastsidemom
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 12:47 p.m.
Whatever the "perp" was doing isn't what matters. Police must follow the law and use just enough force for each situation. It is tricky...but they must follow the laws they defend. So it really doesn't matter how abusive the "perp' is, they must respond appropriately. Tasing anyone other than for their own protection should not be allowed. It should be as closely regulated as a firearm. This was abuse. They cannot tase someone for disobeying!
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.
Actually they can tase to gain compliance from suspect who continuously refuse to follow a lawful order given by a police officer. Study local police policies on tasing before you assume to know which situations call for tasing and which do not.
YpsiREZ
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 10:33 a.m.
All we need is 500 citizens to make our voice HEARD nationally ... NO MORE POLICE BRUTALITY!!
YpsiREZ
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 10:30 a.m.
We are HAVING a protest on Saturday at the YPSILANTI POLICE STATION @ 12 noon. WE will be forming marching lines and holding signs. WE MUST not continue to let this happen in our community. I am an Ypsilanti resident and I live in fear EVERYDAY of the Ypsilanti Police Dept. THIS IS A NON-VIOLENT DEMONSTRATION to STOP POLICE BRUTALITY. ANY support will be only HELP. I am organizing it; you can contact me @ f_haywood@yahoo.com PLEASE support the citizens in protecting themselves. The WASH CO. & YPD have had a number incidents involving KILLING and sometimes just beating citizens. PLEASE GET INVOLVED and let's make a stand!!!
Lee Higgins
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 12:48 a.m.
WDIV's coverage: <a href="http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/26564503/detail.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/26564503/detail.html</a>
eyeonthenews
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 3:21 a.m.
Thanks Lee for the link. They don't show a very long piece of the video but it has sound. Strange the video on AnnArbor.com doesn't.
Justice4all
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 12:24 a.m.
I wonder how much the audio would add to the context of what you visually see. Hmmmm!
Roadman
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 11:12 p.m.
Tasers are dangerous. The Legislature should ban thier usage.
monica
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 8:58 p.m.
In light of the officer who just was killed in Livonia, when you have a person who is not cooperating with a police officer they do what they have to do to keep themselves safe. I can only hope the person being arrested is cooperative the next time.
a2citizen
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 8:12 p.m.
Police officers should have their Tasers confisicated. Issue the officers handbags. When someone resists arrest then the officers can then beat the perps with their purses.
YpsiBronc
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.
@ Trespass I'm with you brother! This is an outrage! I'm certain that Mr. Thomas would have been happy to comply with the officer's orders if they had simply been willing to say "please and thank you"! And thank you to the mysterious Dr. Smith for bringing this behavior to our attention. Clearly, an investigation is now in order. Our community will not stand for police officers indiscriminately stopping citizens for loud music. And forcibly arresting, for driving without a license, open intoxicants and operating under the influence (3rd offense)? I'm confident Mr. Thomas will have his day in court and this horrible misunderstanding will be cleared up.
A2 is a Utopia
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 7:06 p.m.
Trespass, where do I begin. Your comments to this incident are a great example of whats wrong in today's society. People don't want to take responsibility or accountability for their own actions. You just cant jump in a ride after drinking..I mean returning cans (without a drivers license on you, suspended or not), rattle the windows of each house you pass blaring your music, then become verbally abusive and physically threatening towards a police officer, when they make contact with you. Would it make you feel better if YPD asked you pretty please turn down your music, don't drink and drive, oh yeah please, please, please don't make threatening gestures at me because next time I will have to slap you on the wrist and put you in time out.
Mick52
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 10:27 p.m.
Right Eutopia. And I am sure that Smith has a sofa and a chair in his back pocket that he can whip out and offer therapy to these victims of society.
Cash
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.
All parties involved will be held responsible for their actions as it should be. I'm sure it will be determined in a court of law in the end.
DFSmith
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 6:57 p.m.
It has become standard practice for perpetrators to try to get off scottfree by accusing the police of racism, or of excessive use of force. Or whatever other stupid excuse they can come up with to try to blame the officers, while trying to minimize their part in the given situation. And of course said perps can always count upon the "civil-rights" types or the cop-haters to come out of the woodwork to vilify the police. All this leads to waste of public money and resources.
Mick52
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 6:33 p.m.
What is missing in the story is how Mr. Thomas feels about Dr. Smith's allegations of mis-conduct by he officers. Maybe it is because his atty told him to say nothing. Or it is because there is no excessive force here. The video of the stop shows no excessive force at all. I think a lot of people who have met with excessive force by police in the past are chuckling at this one. Tasers are non lethal. If the officer did not have them, then there would have been pepper spray, which does nothing to incapacitate, and anger, an aggressor. and then a fight, with injuries. It is clear Mr. Thomas refused the officers order to exit the car and produce ID. The officers came out of this with no injuries and it appears, neither did Mr. Thomas. And while it is no defense for any abuse, keep in mind that resistance as indicated by Mr. Thomas here runs up costs. Extended time to handle this and officers kept off the road longer makes the city less safe. I suggest Dr. Smith get into a patrol car and get punched out a few times by an arrogant drunk suspect or maybe shot at a once or twice to show us exactly how he would handle this situation. He clearly does not understand how difficult police work is, what excessive force is, or how difficult it is to deal with some people when they get intoxicated. I question his standing to file a complaint. How did he get involved in this matter? If Mr. Thomas isn't complaining, why is Dr. Smith? XMO brings up a very interesting question: why were these videos released? They are not subject to FOIA because they are evidence of an open investigation, a exception to the law. My guess is that YPD wanted to show there is no evidence of excessive force here, so they released them. All the chief has to do is make sure no policy violations occurred, but "excessive force." The evidence shows none. Maybe why the sound recording was not on or not working is something that should be looked into. If it's working it needs to be on.
Mick52
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 10:24 p.m.
Yes of course I would, trespass. If they were lethal you would be able to name hundreds, maybe thousands of people who died from them and they would be labeled as lethal weapons. You have only two names and police departments nation wide still use them. What would you propose? Baton? Firearm? Fists? Any one of these can be lethal too. Or not, but they surely will end up in an injury. Had the YPD not used a taser, this man would have ended up injured and perhaps the police would too.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 6:57 p.m.
Would you tell the family of Stanley Jackson that tasers are non-lethal or the man in Livonia who died after being tasered?
pawky
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 6:09 p.m.
@chuck graham, You are spot-on! How about some personal responsibilty? Some people create their own problems. Kudos to the YPD for getting a menace off of our streets and going home in one piece after work.
eyeonthenews
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:33 p.m.
Profiled, REALLY? I don't think so. We have laws against loud car stereos. It is a crime that way too many still refuse to obey. I'm actually glad to see the police stopping these vehicles and hopefully giving them citations and not just warnings. If Thomas hadn't been drinking then he should have complied with the officer's request to take a breath test. Nothing Thomas was doing was appropriate behavior when stopped by the police. If they ask you to step out of your vehicle you do it. You can refuse a breath test if you want but they will obtain a warrant for blood tests if you do. I think some of these guys just want an excuse to cry foul and sue. The only thing I would say is in poor taste, no pun intended, was laying Thomas in his own urine. Not a nice thing to do but like the cop said... it won't hurt you. He should have stood up when the officer requested and then probably could have sat on the bench. He was acting juvenile and verbally abusive AND resisting. Not the smartest thing to do in that situation.
joe golder
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 7:58 p.m.
I agree with enforcing loud noise ordinances. My house is 15' from the entrance to EMU. Some days my pictures vibrate an inch off the walls. I'm glad someone is enforcing the law. Its bad when your in the house and you can't hear your tv over the car stereos.
Bertha Venation
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:07 p.m.
Sounds like different people see different things in the video. The way I see it, the cops were in the right handling this intoxicated, combative system abuser.
Me
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 4:53 p.m.
At tresspass, I can see that you are close to the victim in some way shape or form. You start off by saying Thomas was screaming in pain. Well I would imagine being tased is not supposed to be a fun time, not to mention if Thomas was cooperative, he would have not been put in that situation. You write out facts about Vainner making "10 Stops" for loud music in 2010 and that all but one were black. Well before you cast Vainner as a profiler, shouldn't we take a look at the demographics. If Vainner works in the south side of Ypsilanti, which is predominately black, wouldn't that just be doing his job. Why are you blaming the officers, when clearly Mr. Thomas was extremely non cooperative throughout the entire incident and from the looks he laid refused to stand up and the officers put him down. The officers actually pulled him away from his urine puddle. As for his blood being two weeks old, if it was drawn at the time of the crime, it does not matter how old it is. Quit blaming the officers, they were doing their Job's. Lets hold Thomas accountable for his actions and stop blaming others.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 1:12 a.m.
trepass: And you know for factual certainty that the blood that was drawn wasn't actually tested that night? I am very familiar with lab blood testing procedures, and simply because the results might not have been released for 2 weeks doesn't mean the test was performed 2 weeks later. The test was most likely done that night with the results released to the PD or prosecutor 2 weeks later.
Cash
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 7:14 p.m.
See this WILL end up in a lawsuit. Taxpayers like us will pay through the nose if the rights of the subject are found to be violated. That is why we expect officers to follow the policies and procedures. And that is why the city manager is asking for a review. We have to be sure that all officers are following procedures. Just the fact that the audio isn't working is a concern. It will be bad for the city....and in turn the taxpayer. Sometimes a little restraint could save taxpayers millions of dollars in the end.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:19 p.m.
I actually don't know the "victim" exept that I met him in court when I went to observe his preliminary hearing. My interest is in the use of tasers by local law enforcement after there were two deaths last summer.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.
You obviously don't know about laboratory testing. Old samples may be contaminated by microbes that ferment and produce alcohol. Thus, storage conditions and a second sample to verify the result are important.
SW40
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 4:51 p.m.
A police officer shouldn't have to argue with someone for two minutes about presenting their driver's license. It is a misdemeanor offense in Michigan to operate a motor vehicle without a driver's license, not to mention operating while intoxicated and suspended. It is also a felony to obstruct or resist a police officer. So here we have several misdemeanor offenses and a felony and people are concerned about policy and procedure, I'm concerned with how much time this gentleman will get in jail.
ypsidog
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 4:43 p.m.
I find the "selective" moderation guidelines utilized by annarbor.com to be quite hypocritical. Comments made by "tresspass" on this article, portray as fact, several items that are completely unsubstantiated in the annarbor.com piece. I have flagged these comments, to no avail. I suspect this is just another example of annarobr.com enjoying piling on the City of Ypsilanti, while sorely under reporting crime and problems in their dear city of Ann Arbor. the dog
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 1:09 a.m.
So then why are those videos, or other information not posted here? Why is it that trespass is the only one that seemingly has access to this information?
Tony Dearing
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.
ypsidog, we had an off-line conversation with trespass and he was able to verify the accuracy of his information and his sources for it.
Chuck Graham
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 4:37 p.m.
NOTES TO MR THOMAS IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO JAIL. Do not drive with loud music. Do not drive on a suspended license, Do not drive drunk. Do not have open containers in your vehicle. Provide ID when requested. Provide the vehicles documentation as all driver's are required to do. Do not say you are not going back to jail when you clearly are. When you are under arrest do not resist arrest. Do not urinate in your cell if you decide to refuse to get up and the officers have to drag you on the ground. If a suspect or driver on a ticket wants to fight the charge or ticket the way to do it is in court. Any lawyer will agree with me. How many ways can a this guy mess up and somehow the officers are wrong for applying force? This guy did not come out complying. He came out and immediately took up a fighter's stance and moved toward the officer aggressively. The taser brought this to an end without a fight that would have undoubtedly caused injury to Thomas and the officers. Anyone that disagrees should put themselves in the shoes of the officers. What would you do? Tasers prevent injury by not having to physically fight with people. It saves injuries to the officers and suspects.
WalkingJoe
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 3:28 p.m.
It seems to me that the jail video shows the officers pulling Mr. Thomas out of the urine several times after he rolled into it and also clearly shows him being very uncooperative. But that's just my opinion.
actionjackson
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
Loud music, open beer cans, strong odor of alcohol, yep these are indications of someone we don't want on the road. The police try to do the job of getting these individuals off the road. They follow a procedure that starts out with the "Would you get out of the car and show us some ID". At this point, with a .14, suspended license, two previous violations for drinking and driving, it all goes South. What is a cop supposed to do? It's a much safer environment having repeat offenders off the road. It's just a shame that it has to come to this type of engagement.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:40 p.m.
Nest time you take beer cans to be recycled, remember you have open containers in your car.
xmo
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.
Why is the video available for the public to see? This is allowing the public to be the judge and jury?
actionjackson
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:29 p.m.
FOIA. After all the public will be the jury if this ever goes to trial.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.
The police report stated that both officers had to physically struggle with Mr. Thomas to get him in handcuffs. The video shows clearly that Mr. Thomas voluntarily rolled onto his stomach and offered his hands behind his back to be handcuffed. Officer Yuchasz never even touched Mr. Thomas as he stood over him with his finger on the trigger of the taser. The officers also said that, when they tried to get Mr. Thomas to sit in the police car, he turned and began to kick at him. There is video from the back seat camera that shows, Mr. Thomas' feet by the open car door. He does not kick at the officers. He is then thrown back on the ground and tasered two more times and asked "now are you going to get in the car" The officers said that they smelled alcohol and saw empty beer cans as soon as they approached Mr. Thomas' car but in another video (with audio) from Sergeant Gress' car, he asks the officers if Mr. Thomas had been drinking and they do not say anything about smelling alcohol or seeing beer cans. The three empty beer cans were left over from a trip to recycle beer bottles (they would not take the cans). Mr. Thomas repeatedly said he had nothing to drink that night. The blood sample was 12 days old when the test was performed and although two blood samples were drawn to make sure there were no sample mix ups, only one was tested. I have been told that is because the prosecutors do not like it when the two samples don't agree. Thus, there is some doubt about the blood alcohol result. Then putting his face in piss just adds insult to injury and was just unprofessional. Particularly when the Sergeant tells Mr. Thomas, the it his own piss and it won't hurt him. I think tasers should be used when an officer is physically threatened. We should not use them to capture fleeing suspects or punish handcuffed prisoners for not following orders. Perhaps then we will not see the 6 deaths after tasering that we have had in the last two years in Michigan.
Mick52
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 10:30 p.m.
I am wondering where the video is that shows where the wet spot came from. Was it an accident? Or intentional?
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 1:19 a.m.
"Then putting his face in piss just adds insult to injury and was just unprofessional. Particularly when the Sergeant tells Mr. Thomas, the it his own piss and it won't hurt him. " I've watched this video several times, start to end, and I cannot find anything from the officers that even remotely sounds like "It's your own piss and it won't hurt you". It's really hard to take someone's comments seriously when they so obviously have a set agenda.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 1:06 a.m.
Because of the position of the suspect and the officers in relation to the car bumper, you cannot "clearly" see anything that happens on the ground. Secondly, your argument that they put him on the ground kind of falls apart when at the 0:26 mark you can clearly hear at least one officer say "I would not lay there! I would not lay there!", admonishing Mr. Thomas not to lay in a pool of urine.
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.
When you watch the video you should also remember Stanley Jackson Jr. who died August 21, 2010 after being tasered three times, just like Mr. Thomas. Later in the video you hear Mr. Thomas screaming in pain as he is tasered twice while in handcuffs, lying still on the ground. Mr. Thomas was originally stopped for playing loud music. He felt he was profiled. Officer Vainner has made 10 stops for loud music in 2010, nine of the drivers were black. The missing audio might have shown if his music was loud. There was also a guard in the guardhouse, less than 30 feet away (the ordinance says that music must be clearly audible at least 50 feet away) but the officers never took a statement from the guard as to whether or not she heard loud music. The audio is missing supposedly because the microphone malfunctioned but the audio also malfunctioned in the backseat of the car and the second officer never turned his microphone on. The missing audio would have shown whether or not the officers told the truth about whether he made verbal threats. Mr. Thomas was driving his girlfriends car and he did not know where she kept her registration and proof of insurance. He was indeed driving on a suspended license so he had no license to show the officer. He should not have been driving on a suspended license and he should have told the officer he had no license but instead he got frustrated because he thought he got stopped on a pretense. The officers stated that he balled up his fist and aggressively walked toward officer Vainner. If you look at his feet, he put two feet on the ground and took a half step to bring his feet together and was tasered less than two seconds after he got out of his vehicle. Even if you think the first tasering was justified, do you really risk someone's life by tasering him two more times on the ground in handcuffs.
tdw
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:03 p.m.
Stop the video at 1:52 its clearly 3 items
Cash
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 12:15 p.m.
I'm glad that the city manager has ordered the review. First we want our police officers to be professional and above reproach. A thorough review of policy,procedure and actual practice is in order. Second, this no doubt will bring on a lawsuit. Now that the videos are public, they need to do damage control quickly and show that they are taking it seriously. Really convenient that the "sound didn't work" on the first video. That's a concern. But I'm not sure how much that matters in the long run except that now the report "fills in the blanks", but does it do so accurately? And wow, the police report certainly became "detailed" after a complaint was filed. If those kind of details were really in every police report taken, can you imagine how much detail we would get at this site? This incident in a normal report would read "Arrested man in Ypsi....suspected drunk driving."
Joe Citizen
Fri, Jan 21, 2011 : 3 p.m.
I agree that a review is in order. I'm sure it will show that the officers did what they were supposed to do. There may be a lawsuit or maybe not. It doesn't really matter and does not reflect on whether the officers acted appropriately. People file suits for everything these days. The "damage control" is needed only to appease the idiots who constantly cry police brutality every time someone decides they can do whatever they want and an officer tries to stop them. We all pay for a police force to stop guys like this from hurting someone else. It is strange that people like you expect the officer to "fight fair" in a situation like this where the officer clearly has the obligation to arrest the suspect.
YooperTrooper
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 11:58 a.m.
Kudos to Koryzno, the city council, and the police department for taking a citizen's concerns seriously, investigating this, and providing the video. Boo to Dr. Smith for wasting everyone's time. Appologies to Mr. Thomas, but your race does not allow you to break the noise ordinance and rattle the windows of every home you pass by. Nor does it allow you to drive under the influence. Even without the audio in the first video it seems pretty clear that the officer's instructions where not being followed. If a threatening suspected drunk person refuses to follow commands and approaches an officer then tasering is really the best option, in my opinion.
dading dont delete me bro
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.
there's many uncooperative events noted in the story that are backed up by video. police officer's jobs are tough enough. these guys and gals put their lives on the line every day (as just happened in walled lake w/livonia officer) they don't need to deal w/immature and condesending subjets.
Cash
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 11:57 a.m.
Actually, yes they DO need to deal with immature subjects....every day. That is part of the job. They are trained in using restraint and diplomacy.
dading dont delete me bro
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 11:48 a.m.
interesting video..... first, there is no sound? second, mr.thomas takes his time getting out of his vehicle. officer has to unlock the door for him. third, read mr.thomas' body language...i read it as going to cause trouble...he tosses some papers/cards (assuming driver's license &/or registration to the ground)...an officer would pick up on this too as having an aggressive subject. last, officer brent crawls through the subject's vehicle? easier than exiting and going around?
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.
The police report said it was an empty pack of cigarettes
tdw
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 5:01 p.m.
Dadding yresspass is incorrect.If he or she took the time to stop the video at 1:52 its clearly 3 objects
trespass
Thu, Jan 20, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
It was an empty cigarette pack