Zingerman's Deli expansion gets OK from Ann Arbor Historic District Commission
A three-dimensional model by Quinn Evans Architects, brought to Thursday's Ann Arbor Historic District Commission meeting, shows the addition of a large rectangular building in relation to the existing deli building, annex building and next door building.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
After years of trying to cut through the red tape of Ann Arbor city hall, perhaps it was fitting that Zingerman's co-founder Paul Saginaw finally celebrated the approval of his deli's downtown expansion project on his birthday Thursday night.
By a 6-0 vote, the Ann Arbor Historic District Commission paved the way for Zingerman's Deli to proceed with a major expansion of its downtown operations.
The HDC granted Zingerman's a special "notice to proceed" with demolition of a white house that once stood in the way of the deli's growth.
"Thank you," Saginaw told commissioners after the vote. "I think you guys approved it on the merits of the project, and I thank you very much."
Zingerman's now plans to demolish the house at 322 E. Kingsley St. to construct a two-story addition behind its deli building at 422 Detroit St. It also plans to install a permanent shade structure replacing an outdoor tent, among other site improvements.
Zingerman's co-founder Paul Saginaw addresses the Ann Arbor Historic District Commission Thursday night.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
The HDC determined Thursday night that the fire-damaged house at 322 E. Kingsley St. is a deterrent to Zingerman's expansion — a project commissioners agreed offers "substantial benefit to the community." Two years ago, the HDC ruled that the home was historic and refused to let Zingerman's knock it down to expand.
Determining the expansion will be of "substantial benefit to the community" was a requirement for approval from the HDC on Thursday. Commissioners concurred with a city staff report that found Zingerman's demonstrated its project was worthy.
"The benefits go well beyond an increase in the tax base and new construction jobs, which by themselves are important, but would not be substantial enough to warrant a notice to proceed," the report reads. "Benefits particular to the historic district include moving the kitchen out of the deli, which will help preserve that historic structure, and restoring the exterior of the annex and incorporating it into a new addition that is an appropriate size and scale for the neighborhood."
Other community benefits noted include 65 new permanent downtown jobs, retention and intensification of downtown business activity as opposed to peripheral sprawl, increased support to local nonprofit organizations, increased entrepreneurial support for new local businesses, and sustainable design that is expected to obtain LEED silver or gold certification.
HDC Chairwoman Ellen Ramsburgh commented on the fact that it took so long for the project to receive approval from the city.
"I think that this process has been arduous for Zingerman's and for us, in a sense, and it's been beneficial for Zingerman's and for the Historic District Commission," she said. "The working sessions have been very helpful, and I agree with staff's report — I do think this is of substantial benefit. I think that it's time for the house on Kingsley to be removed and something active and vital to go in there."
HDC member Diane Giannola said the fact that Zingerman's is a world-renowned business that's helped put Ann Arbor on the map was a major factor in her vote on Thursday.
"Zingerman's is a destination," she said. "By helping Zingerman's expand and helping their project, we're really helping the city as a whole, and so it's the community that benefits from it. If it was any other business anywhere else in the city, it would not have the same effect."
Saginaw acknowledged he considered moving Zingerman's to a new location elsewhere downtown if it wasn't able to expand at its current location in Kerrytown, but he said Zingerman's would not have left Ann Arbor like some feared.
He thanked the HDC for working collaboratively with the deli on a plan that is both appropriate for the historic district in which Zingerman's is located and allows the business to grow.
"It would be disingenuous if I didn't admit to you that there was a point where I thought that if we had to keep the annex that the project wouldn't go," Saginaw told commissioners, referring to an orange house on the property that the HDC refused to let Zingerman's demolish. "You pushed us to work with that and, when I look at the renderings, I think it looks a lot better."
Ramsburgh said it helped that commissioners were comfortable with the modern-looking, two-story addition to the 1902-era deli building.
"If the structure had been totally inappropriate for the district, I think we would have had a difficult time giving a notice to proceed," she said. "Because the new addition is respectful of the surrounding area, it helped us to make a decision to allow the notice to proceed."
HDC member Lesa Rozmarek offered a hesitant approval of the expansion. She said she didn't think having a bigger building necessarily offered a substantial community benefit.
"But I believe that Zingerman's, as a business, is a substantial benefit to the community," she said. "They do a substantial amount of good for Ann Arbor. I would hate to see them leave Ann Arbor. I want to keep them in the near-downtown area and allow them to expand."
Zingerman's submitted a long list of reasons why it believed its project was beneficial to the community. It also submitted a letter from United Structured Finance Co., which discloses that the deli is in the process of seeking a $7.6 million loan for the expansion project.
HDC Vice Chairman Patrick McCauley was absent from Thursday's meeting.
The updated site plan drawing for the proposed Zingerman's Deli expansion.
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529.
Comments
Julian
Mon, Jan 24, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.
yeah i can't wait till its done. then i can go get a BLT without feeling claustraphobic
lefty48197
Wed, Sep 15, 2010 : 9:37 p.m.
Their sandwiches cost way too much. I guess it's no surprise they wanted to tear down a historic building. Why let something like that interfere with your multi-million dollar revenue flow?
Jon Saalberg
Mon, Sep 13, 2010 : 12:10 p.m.
@PhillyCheeseSteak: I think the health insurance requirements you cite are not uncommon at many employers, and in many case, are probably even more costly than Zingerman's. Also, as to starting employees at near the minimum wage - that seems unlikely, given what employees there were paid when I worked there 14 years ago. Also, financial information is not "cherry picked". My wife worked at one of the Zingerman's businesses much more recently than I have, and she was provided with pretty thorough financial statements. Is there something in particular you think Zingerman's is not revealing about their current financial situation?
AA
Mon, Sep 13, 2010 : 8:21 a.m.
Suprize, suprize! SHAAAAZAM!!! Try hookin a travel trailer to your existing business and see what hoops you have to go through.
bedrog
Sun, Sep 12, 2010 : 10:51 a.m.
atticus...do your cheap eats in dearborn factor in free gas ( assuming you live in ann arbor)? zingermans, both deli and roadhouse, also give entertainment value for their buck. so much power to them and the decision.
bluetonguedlizard
Sat, Sep 11, 2010 : 5:54 p.m.
@adriana, how about adding the cost of the airfare to those 3-5 euros you think those products cost, then the shipping and then the real potential customs won't let you bring them in.
Trouble
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:57 p.m.
My Cookie now cost $7.
adriana
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:45 p.m.
are they going to get greenfield status as well? poor zingy's, after waiting for so long, they deserve a government handout, unlike the rest of us, uneducated lovers of cheap sandwiches. Anyone who ever tasted good food knows that Zingy's has just provided novelty value to people who have not seen much beyond their yard (the majority of their clientele consists of people driving into kerrytown from their miserable suburban dungeons desperately in need of something close to an urban sociable existence, which zingy's puts a high price tag on). they have a vast number european products that one could buy for 3-5 euros in budget stores in europe.
David Cahill
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 3:46 p.m.
I predicted this approval when many others were preaching gloom and doom. God, I'm good! 8-)
leaguebus
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 3:39 p.m.
@Atticus Yep, its the great ingredients! But, its hard to get lunch anymore for less than $10, so a sandwich thats essentially two meals is not all that bad a deal for $15. I love the Magic Brownies, landjagers, corned beef, bread, and on and on. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to eat at Zingermans every day, but its more of a treat if its done once and a while, anyway. Can't wait to see the new digs. Good luck to Ari and Paul on the build...
Atticus F.
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 12:29 p.m.
fjord, if you think the sole reason Zingermans is so expensive is because of the quality ingredients, you must be delusional. Try going to some of the better deli's in Dearborn or Detroit...It would be an epiphamy for you. I suppose you also think Zingermans is barely squeeking by as well?
Ryan J. Stanton
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 12:05 p.m.
@Molly E. Osler Quinn Evans Architects
Blue Marker
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 11:18 a.m.
Can I get a #18 Georgia Rubin please?
Molly E. Osler
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.
Fabulous! But who is the architect? VERY important to the project.
PhillyCheeseSteak
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 10:29 a.m.
This expansion is good for the local economy and Zingerman's always gets great press on a national level. As for Zingerman's being a good employer, take off your rose colored glasses: - starting pay at, or just above, minimum wage; - managers expected to work 10 - 15 hours per day, including all holidays, but are paid for a 40 hour work week; - "transparent" financial information shared with employees is cherry picked to show just what Zingerman's wants shown, the information such as owner's bonuses and their travel expenses remains hidden; - Zero sick days. If you don't work you don't get paid. Do you want a sick employee making your food/bread? - group health insurance is offered but very hard to afford on Zingerman's wages: a) a single employee contributes $37 - $176* a month towards their plan b) plus a co-pay for every office visit of $25 c) plus a deductible of $250 - $2,000* d) then the employee is still required to pay 10 - 20%* "co-insurance" of their medical/health costs once the deductible is met e) $15 - $50* per prescription f) $100 ER co-pay (after deductible is met). *depending on employee's chosen plan.
townie
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.
"...the building was declared historic in a 4-3 vote two years ago..." The house is in the Old Fourth Ward Historic District that was established in 1983, and it was a contributing structure to that district. As a contributing structure, it has been subject to historic district protection for 27 years, but the article makes it sound as if the HDC suddenly declared it historic two years ago just to thwart Zingerman's. If people really believe that, then no wonder there are such unreasonable comments made about the HDC on this subject. I'm not sure what you mean by saying the HDC "declared" it historic two years ago. Perhaps there was a vote to determine if it was still considered to be contributing after the fire? Probably the most important thing about last night's meeting was the statement by Paul Saginaw after the vote. He stated, contrary to many ill-informed comments on this site, that Zingerman's never had any intention of leaving Ann Arbor and never threatened to do so if they didn't get their way. Secondly, he very graciously admitted that his earlier desire to also demolish the orange house on Detroit Street was misguided and that the completed design, that preserves that house, looks better than the previous design. He thanked the HDC for pushing them in that direction. All the hype and hysteria, and anti-HDC rhetoric was completely unfounded. Everyone is pleased with the outcome. Let's move on.
Kris Palmer
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 9:27 a.m.
Good job Zingerman's! It was ridiculous how long it took the city to "recognize" what Zingerman's and its owners do for Ann Arbor. At least they finally came to their senses.
Rasputin
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 9:26 a.m.
HDC usually gets it wrong. Glad to see they're changing! Can't wait to see Zingerman's after renovations are complete.
Ryan J. Stanton
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 9:18 a.m.
I should note: If you look at the picture of the model, the tiered-looking part of the new building, immediately to the right of the annex building, is going to be rooftop-style deck seating.
actionjackson
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:39 a.m.
Atticus F. "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see".(Marvin Gaye) Heard it through the Grapevine. Zingerman's employs a few people I know and are fine employers. How could anyone possibly be against 65 permanent new jobs in Ann Arbor
C6
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:33 a.m.
Oops, michiganpoorboy is the nutritionist... My Brad bad... Sorry Brad. Atticus F: There's a new McDonald's in Ann Arbor? That would be good for me, since I'm a shareholder... And I think maybe it would be wise to speak with a few Zingerman employees before condeming them as an employer. I've heard for instance that they've sent their "cheese guy" to England for several months at least once, just to learn how the small producers there are creating the goods that Zingerman's imports and sells in the deli. That doesn't sound like such a bad gig to me.
jondhall
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:30 a.m.
More $15 sandwiches! Boo. What a rip off.
Jason M
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:29 a.m.
Atticus F: Totally fine by me if you choose not to drink the Zing kool-aid/buy the hype, but I think you'd probably uncover quite a fair degree of satisfaction and respect for the "neo-corporation" among Zingerman's employees and suppliers. What's wrong with a company succeeding, selling a product that many people enjoy, and providing a fair and living wage (and medical insurance - quite uncommon in the industry) to over 500 employees? Our nation (and its workers) would be far better off if Zingerman's business practices were the norm rather than the exception. I suggest you aim your criticism at a more worthy target.
Atticus F.
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:21 a.m.
c6, under that reasoning we could tout the opening of a new MCdonalds in the historic district...Zingermans jobs aren't that great from what I've heard.
thomas h blaske
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:08 a.m.
Stop knocking the HDC. Not only did they in this particular instance, by the admission of Zing co-owner Saginaw, IMPROVE the project by resisting tearing down the wood frame house, but they generally do good work., Soemtimes it sems like trivialities tri[p projects, but the details do matter. Do not think of this as a project which was the same now when approved as it was 2 years ago when rejected. It's a better project. Now all benefit, including this trasure of Ann Arbor, which Zingerman's surely is. In some part, that's thanks to the HDC, & they should not be criticized bt thanked by all, as they were by Paul Saginaw.
C6
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8:08 a.m.
Brad: Note in the story that this opens the way for 65 new jobs in downtown Ann Arbor... Plus a good number of temporary construction jobs as well no doubt. I take it you won't be interested in filling any of those openings. That's okay, because we the population need nutritionists like you too. Thanks.
murph
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 8 a.m.
@InsideTheHall and @Stupid Hick - the HDC cannot "declare a building historic". Rather, the building was inside a Historic District, as established by the City under State and Federal law, and the HDC found the building to be a "contributing resource" to the district. Again under State and Federal law, the HDC has certain rules they have to follow in order to allow removal of a contributing resource. As far as HDC vs. Planning Commission - they review proposals under separate rules. The HDC is responsible for the historic preservation ordinance - what can be done in a historic district. The Planning Commission is responsible for the zoning and development codes - what can a building be used for, and what does the site have to look like. Similarly, the project has to reviewed under building code and fire code. A project has to meet all applicable codes in order to advance - it's not that the HDC "trumps" Planning Commission or vice versa, it's that they are reviewing two separate parts of the project, and both have to say "yes" for it to move forward. The Ann Arbor Chronicle published a detailed discussion of the process earlier this year: http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/03/13/zingermans-making-it-right-for-the-hdc/ My congratulations to Zingerman's for handling the process responsibly and finding a way to satisfy the various steps. It's never easy to undertake something that was so unanticipated when codes were developed - and a $7m commercial complex here was probably not something that was in anybody's cards 20 years ago (see Heritage Row or the Moravian for other examples).
Atticus F.
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:55 a.m.
I cant believe all of the readers that are on board with this neo-corporate nonsense.
Elaine F. Owsley
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:45 a.m.
With any luck that's the last we will hear about that old, burned,wreck of a house being "historic". How many other derelict houses is the HDC "saving"? Unless someone of note was born there, something of note happened there, all you have is an "old" house, and if it's not good enough to keep up, it's not good enough to keep.
DagnyJ
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:25 a.m.
Finally some city officials get some sense. Thank you.
81wolverine
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:18 a.m.
I'm very happy to finally see this project proceeding, although it took WAY too much red tape. At least the HDC finally came to their common senses and decided based on what's best for the community overall.
Brad
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 7:02 a.m.
Oh yes, all praise the fortitude of Zingerman's. Sheesh.
sbbuilder
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 6:23 a.m.
Well I'll be danged. 6-0? The Histerical Commission must have had a rare moment of sanity descend upon them. This will be such a boon for downtown A2. Three cheers for Zingerman's for getting this through, and for their fortitude and patience.
michiganpoorboy
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 6:22 a.m.
Who cares Deli food is loaded with salt, preservatives, dies, and a lot of crap that should not be consumed. No wonder America is so sick.
Deb Burch
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 5:38 a.m.
Finally. It was the right thing to do. It is a shame that the Zingerman's team had to go through so much.
racerx
Fri, Sep 10, 2010 : 2:23 a.m.
Really? I mean, really?
InsideTheHall
Thu, Sep 9, 2010 : 11:21 p.m.
So the AAHDC can control the Planning Commission and future development by declaring a building or area historic? If the AAHDC and Planning Commission disagree who trumps whom? Ryan can you detail this please.
Ryan J. Stanton
Thu, Sep 9, 2010 : 10:49 p.m.
As we reported the other day, the building was declared historic in a 4-3 vote two years ago that effectively halted Zingerman's previous attempt to demolish the structure in order to expand.
Stupid Hick
Thu, Sep 9, 2010 : 10:44 p.m.
Does Ryan or anyone know what prompted the commission to declare the building historic to begin with, and did Zingerman's benefit from it?
Phil Dokas
Thu, Sep 9, 2010 : 10:16 p.m.
6-0! Good job Historic District Commission!