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Posted on Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 1:46 p.m.

Former Michigan QB Rick Leach rips Lloyd Carr, and Wolverine 'naysayers'

By Staff


Former Michigan quarterback Rick Leach warms up prior to a flag football game prior to the Wolverines' 2009 spring football game at Michigan Stadium.

Lon Horwedel | The Ann Arbor News

Former Michigan quarterback Rick Leach sounded off Thursday morning on WTKA-AM, criticizing ex-coach Lloyd Carr for mingling with Iowa supporters during last Saturday's game.

"Our ex-coach flipped a huge middle finger right in our current coach's face," Leach told host Sam Webb. "So ask people to go investigate that, Sam. There will be a lot more there. Trust me."

Earlier in his radio appearance, Leach was angered by a Detroit Free Press investigative report which revealed there was no basis for current coach Rich Rodriguez's claim the team's grade-point average had reached an all-time high.

Greg Dooley at has the link to the WTKA audio clip of Leach's appearance.



Sat, Oct 17, 2009 : 1:26 p.m.

Is Rick Leach insane? Number one, Bo would have sat with whomever he wanted when he was AD. When he was "president" of the Tigers he sat with the opposition as well. When he became an announcer he sat with people who were not Michigan men. Llyod Carr brought more national championships than Bo did. He has more than Rich Rod has. As far as the GPA situation, I think if you are going to come out at a press conference and say the team had the highest GPA in history, he should have had the stats in front of him to back up that claim. If it had been a statistic about footbal I guarantee Rich Rod would not have been so flip about the numbers. Why did it take so long for him to rectify this mistake and when the FREEP asked for the info, he should have come out that day and said he mistakenly said something that was a lie.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 9:47 p.m.

Anyone who does not appreciate what Lloyd Carr did is a fool. At one point, he had 5 Big Ten Titles in 8 years, he was 5-2 against the SEC in bowls, his record against Top 10 teams was great, only once in 13 years was he below 3rd place in the Big 10. Everyone wants to bitch about 1-6 vs. Tressel, but not give him credit for his record against Penn State and Michigan State and conveniently forget he was 5-1 against OSU before sweater vest (who would love a 2-5 record against the SEC much less a 5-2). With that said, Rich Rod will also be good for Michigan. It was a high risk move that will hopefully wind up with high rewards. In order to be a Michigan Fan you do not have to love one and hate the other, you should love Michigan and my guess is Lloyd loves Michigan enough to stay out of the spotlight when he is no longer the coach. If he is at the games, he is obviously supporting the team and being in the development business now, his network expands beyond those who wear Maize and Blue, but that does not change his colors or mine.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 6:20 p.m.

"Oh, and one more thing. Bo went 8-3 his first year. Contrast that with 3-9. And believe me, the talent in that year was no better than was there in 2008." That's not true! Morehead was head and shoulders above Sheridan and Threet at the QB position. There were all Americans on the O-line such as Jim Mandich, Dan Dierdorf and Bob Baumgartner. You also had RB Glenn Doughty and Billy Taylor. I would take Marty Huff and Ed Moore over any of our current LB on the team. Bo had more talent on his team IMO then RR had when he took over. Bump just didn't know how to coach his talent.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 2:29 p.m.

@ NCMaize&Blue: A four-loss season was considered the standard for failure under Mo and Lloyd... now it's viewed as progress for RichRod, the $6 million-dollar man... you LLoyd-bashers are unreal in your hypocrisy


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 2:10 p.m.

@ Theo212: RichRod can't even beat MSU whom Lloyd beat 6 times in a row at the end of his career...


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 2:03 p.m.

Stay off the drugs Ricky... From his Wiki page: In 1990, he was suspended for sixty days by Major League Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent for a positive drug test and underwent league ordered drug treatment.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 1:55 p.m.

Well, I read everybody's comments and there were a lot of "Bo wouldn't have...." If we are analyzing LC vs RR through Bo glasses, I would say: Bo would not have left his old university and called a recruit first. Bo would not have sued his old university, or been sued. Bo would not name player's names or deflect blame from himself or his coaching staff. Bo would not in any way embarrass the university, be it UM or Miami, or OSU. (Well, off the field--his on field antics were not necessarily in keeping with university decorum). I remember Bo during the whole wooing by Texas A/M, and he showed immense pride in UM and leadership. He turned down financial security for life and stayed at UM because that's where he felt he belonged. He could not look at his own players and leave them for a "better opportunity". When we talk about Michigan men, that's what I think of. Oh, and one more thing. Bo went 8-3 his first year. Contrast that with 3-9. And believe me, the talent in that year was no better than was there in 2008. They were just coached up and talented. I am just stunned by all these people who are defending RR and blast LC with this whole "bo would have done..." while the facts are not really in their favor. Rather than hypothesize, I judge based on true facts on the field, and so far, they are not looking good. I hope that they turn around, though, and that we all look back on this and laugh. But it's up to RR and nobody else. Time for the controversies to stop. Now, I am


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 1:50 p.m.

Leach was lucky to be retained on the squad with his notorious habits and shenanigans as a Wolverine. He must have some inflated ego to pontificate on other people's behavior. Carr did a great job and can sit where he wants in a stadium.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 12:01 p.m.

When Michigan finishes 8-4 this year and becomes part of the National Championship discussion next year, all of the RR nay-sayers will be singing a different tune. But we are taking names and will call you out as the hypocrites you are. Go Blue!


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 11:48 a.m.

Rick Leach remains the spokesman for so many former players and his views carry a lot of weight. He can overlook Rich not being a Michigan Man and still be the honest broker for this football program. Major props for Rick. And Lloyd, don't forget who's payin for your home and millionaire lifestyle.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.

uminks: The Ferentz UM connection is that Ferentz, thou hand picked by Hayden Fry to replace him, was hired by then Iowa President Mary Sue Coleman current UM President. Carr and Ferentz do not have a close relationship thou they are on speaking terms.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 11:34 a.m.

Oh, did anyone check out where Bill Martin sat? Question for - Was an reporter physically at the game on Saturday night in Iowa City?????????


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 9:49 a.m.

I'm not really clear why people are upset at Carr sitting with Iowa. At any sporting event, you find ADs, GMs, coaches, scouts, owners all intermingling. And if they know each other well, they watch the game together. Believe it or not, professionals do network and discuss the game. And in respect to his silence on RR, you have to admit he's in a no-win situation. He says something, people get upset; he says nothing, people get upset. Give him a break already. Michigan's win percentage did go up under his guidance after all (according to ESPN); you know, those numbers you folks wear on your arrogant yellow t-shirts?


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 7:08 a.m.

So was Bo a traitor for giving an eulogy at woody hayes' funeral? What do people want Lloyd to say about richrod, he doesnt go to the practices, richrod came out and basically called lloyd out on the "cupboard bare" comment. Lloyd cant testify to the practice schedule. And when was Lloyd media-friendly when he was here??? Lloyd doesnt like talking to the media, so he's not going to hold a press conference to come out on his feelings good or bad about richrod, so if that makes him a traitor then there are some really fans here. WHATS SAD THOUGH IS THAT MICHIGAN FANS ARE SPLIT AND WE ARE BEING LAUGHED AT NATIONALLY BECAUSE OF IT......SO TO ALL THE FANS GROW UP AND GET OVER IT


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 5:57 a.m.

I only wish Lloyd was in one spot for that Iowa game: On the Michigan sideline! Nice Bowl record Rick.


Fri, Oct 16, 2009 : 4:55 a.m.

Hmm, it looks like most of the small percenage of "fans" who post here - I assume they have no where else to spit their vile without risking a physical beat down - who claim to be "all in for Michigan" and expect everyone else to be "all in for Michigan" were not, in fact, "all in for Michigan" two years ago. Does the hyprocrosy surprise anyone?


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 11:04 p.m.

LC wanted Ferentz as head coach. From what I heard they are buds and Ferentz probably got him the suite pass. Carr did veto the Miles bid and got his way. Kurt Herbsreit was wrong! Miles was never offered the job and just used the false info to get a nice pay raise from LSU. Initially LC was neutral on the RR hire but him and a few others in the athletic department have turned against RR. Though RR will prevail through winning, then through recruiting. Just think where this program will be when we start landing the 4 and 5 star defensive talent! If I was so ever privileged to play or coach at UM, I would never sit in company with anyone else except UM!!! I would be on the 50 yard line lending support to RR and team! At least us fans can support the team and RR!!! Bo is probably rolling in his grave over this!


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 10:47 p.m.

Interesting...Rick Leach was my all time favorite player when I was a kid and, as some others have said, I have always respected Coach Carr both for his integrity and for his coaching accomplishments. I do think it was a mistake for Lloyd to go as a guest of Iowa, but giving UM the middle finger is a whole other topic. That part I don't believe at all. Opinions, as they do on RR, will vary on that. It is ironic, though, that those who so staunchly defend RR and claim there is a witch hunt to get him, are so quick to attack Lloyd Carr without any credible facts, either. Lloyd Carr won several B10 titles, dominated PSU, MSU, and even OSU for a time, and won a National Title here at Michigan. In other words, he deserves the benefit of the doubt long before RR or even Rick Leach, imo. Hopefully RR earns the type of respect that I feel Lloyd EARNED through years of dedication, commitment and WINNING (in addition to his NC). If RR EARNS that over time, than it means not only is he winning, he's doing the right things to bring respect to the program. THAT would be good for all concerned with what's good for Michigan.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 9:18 p.m.

This statement from Rick Leach does not make any sense. And I think all those people who are accusing the fans who are critical of Rod of being disloyal, are no better. Why is it any more acceptable to criticize Lloyd Carr than it is to criticize Rodriguez? All Lloyd Carr did was win with class, underachieve a bit (or a lot depending on how you look at it), but never have a losing season, never embarrass the university except on the football field, never bring negative attention to himself, never miss a bowl game, never call out his players publicly. Oh, yeah, he never sued his former employer (or been sued), displayed loyalty to a fault, and basically understood that he is the most public representative of the finest university in the land (or at least one of them). He did not mess with tradition (including losing games we should not have), and he was somebody we could all be proud of. It was time to step aside, and he did so with class and dignity, and he is absolutely right to not tamper with the football program or make any public comments. The program is Rodriguez's to sink or swim, and so far, it has mostly been sink. Rod has a chance to turn it around, but it is not up to Carr to defend him. It is up to Rod to do that all by himself, and it is no different at WVU. Do you hear Rodriguez giving his opinion of Bill Stewart? Rick Leach's comments were idiotic, and bring more shame to himself and to Rodriguez by association than anything he is accusing Lloyd Carr of doing. A "middle finger"? Get a grip Rick Leach. This is Football--and Lloyd is as much a Michigan man as you--like it or not. And as far as tradition--I will wait to give the thumbs up for Rod to mess with traditions until he honors the biggest tradition. Winning. Until then, he should respect the tradition that preceded him by 125 years.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 8:16 p.m.

Ah... the fun of discussing Michigan Sports especially Michigan Football. Lloyd Carr, as assistant AD, was probably doing what most administrators do. They are representatives of the University when attending functions, even football games. Was Lloyd wearing Iowa Colors???? Take a look sometime at the press box in MIchigan Stadium and you will probably see the AD or other representative of the "other University" there with the MIchigan AD, President and many other MIchigan folks. I have in the past. Gosh! Lloyd is such a bad guy for the University. He gives a lot of his time for causes, such as, Mott's Hospital, still works for the U as an assistant AD and... oh yeah... HE WAS THE COACH WHEN MICHIGAN WON IT LAST NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP IN FOOTBALL. Even BO or Rick Leach did not do that. We do hope the next Nat. Championship will be under RRods tenure.. Perhaps the post by TOM about Rick Leach is correct... Go Blue!


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 7:59 p.m.

You are all as nutty as a bunch of buckeyes! Lloyd can sit anywhere he wants. His W/L record, his student's academic performance, and their injury rates all earned that right. Compare LC to RR anytime you want, LC wins hands down -- and with class. Where did Mary Sue sit? Bill Martin? Give it a rest. Leach knows when you go to an opponent's baseball stadium, you have to sit in their box. There is seldom another choice. I thought GPA knowledge was pretty common for the team. Isn't there an award for the athletic team with the highest GPA? Once again, RR made it up to deflect away from him. It's always the fault of someone else, never RR. The QB missed part of the signal, the academic success people misstated the information, the partners in his investment misled him, UWV cheated him on his contract, the cheerleader lied,...No class, no glory, let's move on quickly.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 6:33 p.m.

It is surprising that Rich Leach's buffoonery is taken so seriously. By publicly making these statements Mr. Leach is showing disloyalty to the University Football program. My theory is that he misses reading his press clippings and this is the only way he can get the attention craves.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 6:27 p.m.

LLoyd Carr's silence and lack of vocal support for RR and the current program speaks volumes. Very disappointing and self serving attitude from a respected member of the Michigan community. Shame on you Lloyd.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 6:05 p.m.

How many times did Bo sit with an opponent while he was the Michigan AD?? Care to take a guess? Is there any chance that if Bo were AD and an associate AD sat with the opponents during a game that associate would be sent down the road like Bill Frieder?? That is no way in the world Lloyd would have sat with Iowa if Bo were the AD!!!


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 5:55 p.m.

I want someone to tell me WHY LLoyd Carr sitting with Iowa people is a problem. When I go to away games I sit with the other team's fans but I still root for the maize & Blue. LLoyd probably has plenty of friends in the Iowa program. Heck, one of Mary Sue Coleman's best friends is the president of the University of Iowa. Does that mean president Coleman has "turned her back on the program" I don't think so. If you're not a fan of Lloyd that's one thing, but don't accuse Lloyd of something when you don't know the details. Otherwise you're no better then the free press.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 5:54 p.m.

If people read the attachment the writer says at the end that lloyd was a personal guest of the wide receivers coach (campbell), who was on lloyds staff here at michigan. Also it is known that michigan's president sits in the box at the horseshoe with their president and vice versa. The GPA snafu is because of someone on the staff gave richrod some bad info and he went with it without verifying it. But it shouldnt be a big deal. All these personal attacks on each other isnt doing michigan alum and fans and the program any good. So rick, learn from llooyd and be quiet.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 5:39 p.m.

I am not a LC supporter and never have been. He was able to recruit good talent, but seldom was he able to compile seasons that ended in top 5 rankings. We always managed to lose games we should have won. Carr has not and does not publicly support this program since his retirement. His biggest public splash has been getting Ron English a head coaching job. If he didn't want RR here, then he shouldn't have got involved and screwed up our attempt to hire Les Miles, but he didn't want him here either. LC wanted one of his staff to lead this program and when it didn't happen, he has decided to bail on supporting this program and University. The fact he still has an office in the football building is ridiculus. If Carr was mingling with the Iowa people during a Mich vs Iowa game, I agree with Leach, this is a problem. I am in Rick's camp when it comes to investigating who is behind the continued negative crap being continuously printed in the papers. If the Free Press spent as much time on that little nugget instead of running with a former upset player crying "he was forced" to put too much time into practicing and working out maybe we would find out some interesting things. The Free Press is obviously a LC supporter so that won't happen.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 5:21 p.m.

Like Leach or not, he is 100% correct as Carr should have known better since he is still an associate AD for UM. GO BLUE!


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 5:15 p.m.

Name the 2 football programs with the most tradition? U of M and ND. Have you seen one coach at ND spit in the face of tradition in the way RR has at U of M? (#1, captains, etc.) Who has more character and integrity? Lloyd or RR Who went around bragging/lying about his team having better grades than the previous coaching staffs? How many parents and recruits listened to the coaching staff tell them and their sons U of M had the best GPA in 25 years? Did they believe that lie and was it a major selling point? How many U of M fans/posters threw around that GPA stat in a post either in pride or to boast superiority to another schools fan base? Has RR made you a liar?


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:40 p.m.

I believe the primary reason so many people are trying to denigrate coach Rich Rod is because he is not "A Michigan Man". Neither was Bo, but he did rather well and was considered a "Michigan Man". Sad state of affairs, but probably true.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:34 p.m.

Perhaps RichRod stiffed Lloyd on the duckets.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:33 p.m.

Unfortunately, Leach has once again become an embarrassment. He disliked Carr long before RR came. I didn't see him "all in for Michigan" when Carr was coach. In fact, I don't think he did much except abuse women and drugs. He works all those that don't know any better into a lather, giving Carr haters (who would, of course, also be Michigan haters) ammunition to keep phony controversies fermenting, and that does not help the program.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:30 p.m.

Until Lloyd Carr explains WHY he sat where he sat and until he wants to tell WHY he isn't more involved in the current coaching admin. program(i.e.,sticking up for RR),all everyone is doing is SPECTULATING!!Speaking on something you know nothing about!!!GOSSIP!!!The new trend of the day....gossip!!!Lloyd Carr=MICHIGAN!!! Nuff said!!!GO BLUE!!!


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:21 p.m.

How can you possibly blame the freep? RR said it, they asked for the documents from UM to back it up. Obviously there is nothing to back it up. Kill the messenger! RR and UM got caught in another lie. If this is any indication of how this program is run, there will be NCAA sanctions after the investigation is complete.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:18 p.m.

According to an interview that Carr did about a month ago with a Georgia newspaper (apparently Carr is available for newspaper interviews out-of-town only).... that he was going to be attending the Iowa game. He did not mention that he was going as a guest of the University of Iowa and would be sitting in their private box etc. So, this trip had been planned for quite some time. Lloyd has the right to sit with and hang with whomever he wants....however in his current capacity as an associate AD at UM, he made several key mistakes by taking that route for the trip (if it is indeed true). First of all, he is currently on Michigan's payroll...not Iowa. He is a former UM coach, not Iowa or any other program. Regardless of whom his friends are, and who apparently are not...he should not put himself in that position as a representative of UM. It not only was an error in judgment, it left him with the possibility of making a HUGE Public Relations Gaffe.... which this now is. If this is true, then it is a mistake by Lloyd in appearing to not support the current Michigan program, and it comes at a time when it his support is very much needed.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 4:01 p.m.

The sportswriters for the two detroit newspapers are really floundering lately. The only thing good out of Detroit are the Associated Press articles.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 3:54 p.m.

Love Rick Leach. Admired and respected Lloyd Carr. Hard to believe he would do something against Michigan. If he did something out of the ordinary he should be called on it. I am sick of the Detroit Free Press and their anti Rich Rod campaign. GoBlue16


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 3:20 p.m.

I guess Rick Leach isn't going to be on Lloyd's Christmas card list anytime soon! I don't think that Carr being in Iowa's pressbox sitting with some Iowa people is a big deal. It could have been arranged by Bump Elliot or Erik Campbell - who knows? I like Rick Leach a lot and think his fierce loyalty to the football program is great. But, when he accuses Lloyd Carr of undermining RR, he needs to cite some tangible evidence. He's very adamant about Carr's alleged-subversive activity, but he offers no proof - at least in interviews. That being said, I DO find Lloyd Carr's silence to be more and more deafening the longer it goes on. I know he wants to take a hands-off approach and let Coach Rod establish his own legacy. But, that doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't come forth now and then to lend some support - especially with all the negative, insignificant garbage the media is throwing at RR lately. Bottom line here: I'm not going to condemn Lloyd Carr based on a few rants by Rick Leach until I see or hear some factual proof that he's done something negative. It's simple innocence until guilt is proven.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 2:36 p.m.

Bo would have been in the lockeroom at halftime.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 2:26 p.m.

No matter how good or bad the U of M program is there will always be individuals who disaggree with the program and leaders of the program. Former coach LLoyd Carr is not coaching anymore. He can visit with and sit with the former AD of Iowa if he chooses, since that man was a Michigan Man long before he became associated with Iowa. Lloyd would be critisized no matter what side of the football program he took. He is and the program is better off for him not to say anything. Dan Lord

J rodz

Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 1:47 p.m.

I thought it was revealing when Rick asked fans to think about the following: why would such a good story of kids exceeding academic expectations be turned into a negative by others? Who would do that if not those who have ill intent against RR and the program? I think he has a point. I like Lloyd Carr and think he is a fine person, but i have wondered why he has not spoken out against those trashing the current coach or the program. I mean, he still has players in that program which he recruited. Just thought i would of heard something from him about folks toning down the rhetoric and focusing on moving this program forward. Kind of sad.

Pete Bigelow

Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 1:23 p.m.

Thanks Caledonia. It should be fixed now.


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 1:22 p.m.

Never mind... it works now. :)


Thu, Oct 15, 2009 : 1:21 p.m.

"More..." link is broken.