Rich Rodriguez's devotion to Michigan offense is nothing unique

"So how did someone so in tune with defense become one of college football’s great offensive innovators?"

Huh, Rich? It's just a gimmick, combining the spread concept with the zone run-oriented quarterback. Good teams will beat it. Bad teams will beat it when run by a mediocre quarterback. Delaware State will not beat it.

Why are we paying top dollar for half a coach?

Macabre...

Your posts bleed passion... yet your simplistic view of RR and his spread offense betrays you. Ultimately your passion comes across as shallow, misdirected and empty. Your lack of knowledge beyond the surface has allowed your emtions to dictate your view while your brain lazily awaits its next command.

RR is building a program, and that program in his eyes starts on offense. There are no quick fixes here. Patience will set you free.

I'm afraid RichRod will learn that you can't build a program based on a gimmick. As for the rest of your post, kind of surprised the very heavy moderation has allowed the slew of personal commentary.

I've been watching and writing about college football for decades. I've never seen a school dismantle a successful program in such a quick and thorough manner. And all to jump, improperly, on the latest fad.

Macabre...

You keep digging yourself a deeper hole... To say that the spead is a "fad" couldn't be further from the truth. Do you actually watch College football? Based on that statement I'm not sure you do. Also seems that your Michigan football history is a bit fuzzy.

My wish is that people like yourself would just come out and say what's really on your mind... Which is of course that you hate RR and no amount of wins or good will can change that.

I like this story. It explains the workings of the program. The last part about getting the players in the correct position to make plays and then hope the guys will do it puts the responsibility where it belongs and gives them the chance to excel.

Players can be in a position to make plays, but only when they still have possession of the ball and they didn't leave it on the turf. I think the next innovation should be the "fumble-proof carry" where the ball is tucked safely under the jersey as the runner advances toward the end zone. It would help the team reduce its turnovers.

Kubrick, I think your lack of football knowledge makes you incapable of arguing intelligently.

You see Rich's spread as the Spread - as if that's a defined offense. In reality, it's a concept as vague as West Coast.

RichRod's spread combines the spread concept of getting skill position players into mismatches with the zone rush-reading quarterback.

That's just a gimmick, one based on the fad that you need to come up with some Spread variation that people associate with you personally.

In truth, it's just limiting. It makes it easy for a top-notch team to defend you.

All your personal invective proves is ignorance of how football works. Try watching a game or two. See how easy RichRod made life on Penn State last Saturday.

Watch a defense that's been the worst in the Big Ten for the last two seasons, one that RichRod himself admits he has ignored.

Michigan needs to start over. This egomaniac has no place wearing the maize and blue.

Sunset,
You said it very well.
I agree with you it was a dismantle of a successful program.

Kubrick,
"There are no quick fixes here." You're right, although the reasons for that are what divide Michigan fans. Some believe the old regime lead to this, while some believe RR caused this himself. Based on the records and accomplishments of the two coaches, I know where I stand on the issue. However, all opinions on the matter are purely subjective. Either way, I'm maize n' blue to the core and will pull for the team regardless of who's coaching.

It WAS a great program for 39 years. Now we will struggle mightily with the Iowas and Wisconsins of the Big Ten.

Macabre...

Yeah, WV has had no success with this type of offense. Look at the top 20 and tell me how many run a variation of the spread offense. Again, you just hate RR.

And the rest of you... What exactly is your idea of a successful program... 3, 4 loses a year? It's simple... You all want to go to Heaven but none of you are willing to die.

I can't wait for you all to eat your words... Though most of you will simply jump right back on the wagon while explaining how you never doubted it for a second.

So down in the dumps here. How 'bout a good ol Walmart-Wolverine chant of "All in for Rich Rodriguez" to fire you guys up?

As Birkett says, he is one of college football's GREAT offensive innovators. Guys like that don't grow on trees. Give him an extension and enjoy what he can build.

Uh, right. The spread is a gimmick. Good teams will beat it. That's why two spread teams played for the National Championship earlier this year. If you are going to post stuff like this, please at least watch some football first.

Kind of silly bleating over and over that I'm saying the spread itself is a gimmick.

Re-read my posts. If you still don't understand why RichRod's variation is a gimmick, best to just switch to Tim McCarver and baseball. Baseball is a much simpler sport, and McCarver more easily accessible to simple-minded people.

Macabre...

When you're done patting yourself on the back know that your opinion of RR's offense is of the minority in the college football world.

Not the minority in State College, however. Or Columbus. Or Iowa City. Or East Lansing.

Gimmicks don't work at the elite level. Nor does ignoring defense and hoping the defensive coordinator makes magic behind the scenes.

RichRod is a great mid-major coach. Unfortunately, that doesn't translate to the next level.

RR while at WV against top 25 teams 7 wins 11 losses.
At MI 3 wins 9 losses against the Big Ten.
Yes...That is success.
Sorry the facts do not back up RR's system of success.
Time to lay out the excuses.

The lack of vision and patience with some "fans" is truly staggering.

Fresh, your ignorance about the spread is staggering. I don't have a problem with the spread concept. I have a problem with RichRod's gimmicky version of it, which requires Pat White and a mediocre defense stacked up against it.

What do I like about Carr? 81-23 in the conference, a share of five conference championships and one national championship, only 12 home losses in 13 seasons. He didn't stick to the power-I, either. There were some good quarterbacks who threw a lot.

I liked the defense here, too. It gave up 18.3 points per game. I liked the continuation of 40 straight winning seasons in Big Ten play.

RichRod and his gimmick version of the spread? 3-9 in the conference so far, 6 home losses in 1 1/2 seasons, 26.8 points per game allowed, only coach in the history of Michigan to allow more points than his teams have scored or have a losing record in Big Ten play.

Carr was 6-7 against Ohio State. He was fired because he lost the last four. RichRod will soon be 0-2 without coming within 30 points of the Buckeyes in either game.

Carr had ten seasons of nine or more wins, the threshold for the BCS. RichRod? Hasn't yet reached nine wins more than halfway through his second season.

A comment that violated our conversation guidelines was removed.

Since when did Lloyd Carr get "fired?" I must have missed that part during his retirement speech.

You're living in the past. Get over it. Evolve or die... I'm not afraid of a couple down years for a brighter future. This team is two plays away from being 7-1, and two plays away from being 3-5. At 5-3 progress is upon us. You can continue to live in the past, refusing to accept the present - that's your choice. I refuse to waste my time wining about how "I want things to be."

Carr is gone. RR runs Michigan football. If you don't like it - tough.

Jaxon5 wrote: "Players can be in a position to make plays, but only when they still have possession of the ball and they didn't leave it on the turf. I think the next innovation should be the "fumble-proof carry" where the ball is tucked safely under the jersey as the runner advances toward the end zone. It would help the team reduce its turnovers."

-- Good one! I was thinking Michigan might ask for a rule change: allowing the receivers and QBs to have bracketing devices they would have clamped on their bodies, they could have a "catch net" to actually catch the ball and that would channel the ball into the bracket which would auto-adjust to secure the ball. The rule change would also forbid opposing players from touching the Michigan player until this process completed - like not making contact with kickers. The QB version would also have a powerful eject mechanism which would save the QB from over-working his throwing arm. The device could be called, "the Michigan Hand." :-)

The great weakness of Rodriguez's approach is that it takes so long to show positive results. Few coaches at any level want to go through two years of massive fan doubt to reach the desired result. The third season MUST SHOW PAYOFF or very serious consequences for the program and coach will follow.

And no, it's not a case where "courage" is required because, by the time the results do come in: that coach is already a millionaire. Failure mainly affects the school's football program - with or without the man who instigated this or any "innovations."

OTH - I don't agree that Rodriguez's program is a gimmick and I still support him and the Wolverines. I'm just acknowledging that the promised results are obviously still in the future. Judgement either way is premature. I WOULD like to see a lot of recruiting of heavy duty talent on defense. The head coach doesn't have to try to concentrate on any phase, but he does have to give his assistant coaches "something to work with." I'm thinking of what happened to Jim Herrman: who went from "defensive genius" in 1997 to goat shortly thereafter. I question whether any assistant coach can succeed without a steady supply of great players. Are you listening, Coach RR?

I dont know if i could stand to see one more handoff and run to the left as we saw the last few years of Lloyd Carrs career. Do we not remember losing to App. State. The defense started running to the spot of the ball before the snap because they ran the same play over and over. The defense needs work yes but how often are they left covering their own endzone due to fumbles, interceptions and anything else that goes wrong. An offense that seems to forget how to catch the ball when its right on your hands. Denard has had some good throws but unfortunately no receiver can catch for him. Martell Webb has how many dropped passes in the same spot almost every game. The offense is not helping the defense. Im tired of watching the defense on the field and try not to blink cuz i might miss the offense if there on the field. Robinson needs to get the corners up on the receivers and jam them to disrupt the timing to atleast give the line a chance to get at the qb. Not give them 1st down spacing everytime they line up. RR is new to big 10 but he'll learn. Carr didn't wanna change and it caught up to him. Oregon proved that and so did OSU. In The rose bowl they came out after the half and ran the same play that didn't work the first half. This is not NCAA were you can run one play and it works everytime. Carr had a great career but to win you have to adjust and RR is still got some players to get before he gets to the top. They have been in every game except for Penn st. which couldnt keep up with Iowa.

Now we know why the offense sucks.

Carrs' Wolverines beat the Meyer/Tebow/Harvin spread, and he didn't have to wear a red wristband to do it...
Ban The Wristband!
Go Blue!
v

What about RR's history of turning the program around in his 2nd season. Oh yeah all of you RR excuse makers said 9-3 this year. Even with the crappy schedule he will be lucky to be 6-6. Keep drinking that Kool-aid. I am sure the new AD will take care of your problem anyway. Fire RR!

RR Wvu team would have beaten us any day of the week, Ron English got beat by the spread everytime he played it the mans been here a year and a half you guys talk like hes been here 5 years and we still sux..nope 1 year and a half over half of RR recruits havent seen the feild, some of you and i want it now way of thinking worse then my 4 year old. Its hard to believe some of
you would rather win the b10 games and lose to Osu and our bowl game instead of changing with
the time, how it works people used to run the triple opition all day that died, soon everyone went to pro style, now its the spread,how college football works evolve or die, and we were on our last breath with
LC.

How is the Spread a gimmick? There are so many variations to it from pistol offense, Air Raid, even variations of the old triple option, so it is hardly a gimmick. The whole key to the spread is that the QB must be able to READ the defensive end (especially when set with a slot receiver, tail back) and decide whether he is collapsing down the line or playing up field contain. That is where the problems have come and will come with a freshman team, moreover a freshman QB. He has problems reading defenses! The only way that Tate will get better is watching more and more game film and the most important thing, playing more! All these folks who want it NOW and then want to win yesterday are completely unrealistic in their expectations. This team needs more depth and more experience. So the more time Coach Rod is given to build up his recruiting the better this team will get. Coach Rod in his press conferences has said it many times, even when they were 4-0 that Denard needs to work on his vision. Denard looks at his receivers when throwing, hence the interceptions. He needs to learn, like Tate, to look and throw at routes, not look and throw at the receivers. That will come! Can we be realistic and take it in goals? Such as getting into a bowl, then compete for the Big10 title (beat OSU), then work on becoming a national power. This isn’t going to happen under ANY coach overnight. Give our coach time!

Let’s GO BLUE

This is the most heated debate that I have seen all year! AA.com usually steps in much quicker than this. They only blocked one comment. Wow.

Anyway, people such as the sunset dude are not real michigan fans. They are just here to poke fun because we are not very good right now. I guess it comes with the territory. We will be good very soon...with a fresh. and soph. laden team, and some good reqruiting, we will be very dangerous.

Oh, I assure you I'm as much a Michigan fan as anyone. That's why I'm so frustrated with the decision to turn to GimmickRod (see my previous posts for an explanation of the spread and why this version of it is just a gimmick).

Interesting that Kubrick mentions evolution. The evolutionary process requires variation of the gene pool. The GimmickRod mutation of the spread gene quickly dies off as a defense has already evolved to contain it.

The lesson? The spread gene has its place in football. But it requires a quarterback who can make quick decisions and get the ball out very quickly. Variations on this gene still have that requirement - something Rodriguez doesn't seem to understand.

GimmickRod's own ego is too large for him to evolve into a success when he doesn't have the perfect quarterback. And without a defense, you can't compete in the Big Ten.

Again, it's best to cut our losses and get a good coach in here. I'm not against the spread. I'm against this version of it, combined with a lack of emphasis on defense.

If you're worried about defense, go be an Alabama fan. Knowledgeable fans are concerned with: 1) speed, 2) offense, and 3) King RichRod winning multiple BCS Titles.

Sunset...

Thanks for making this point...

"It requires a quarterback who can make quick decisions and get the ball out very quickly."

Exactly! And Michigan is fielding true freshmen at the QB position. But they aren't going to be freshman for long. That's where patience are needed.

"It's best to cut our losses and get a good coach in here."

So let me get this straight... You've already lost your patience with RR after a year and a half... Yet you're willing to make another change that would set the program back at least five years? Really? The truth is that this has nothing to do with football. You hate RR. It's personal for you. And that's too bad because he's not going nowhere anytime soon. And when the program succeeds on a national level you will be forced to root for a man that you hate. Or maybe you were never a fan to begin with??????

GO BLUE!

I could easily say I'm a better fan than you are, but what's the point?

The argument is whether Michigan is better off scrapping the RichRod experiment, long-term. I think Michigan is better off because RichRod's variation of the spread is just a gimmick that fares badly against good teams with well-coached defenses. It will never produce ten-win seasons in the Big Ten. Plus, he pays only lip service to the defense.

So, while getting rid of him now will carry some short-term pain because of his recruiting of littler guys on offense than most programs would use, I think we'd be far better off in the long-term.

Martin's decision to hire RichRod was a disaster. IMO, the question is how much damage we'll allow from it. You believe in RichRod. Given the insistence by many here that there's no difference between RichRod's gimmicks and spreads used by other major programs, I question that viewpoint.

Gimmick no gimmick spread pro style dont matter give them man his time to prove himself!! 1 and a half years isent time enough for any coach..Sunset what coach would you like to see at Michigan that is a optioin and not a prayer?.RR does need more detail to are D but speed is were colleges are going and he knows how to play that and recruit it. RR needs his time if he isent sucessfull then i say
ok with fire..but i dont think that will be the case in 3 years he will have us were we need to be..

Gimmick no gimmick spread pro style dont matter give them man his time to prove himself!! 1 and a half years isent time enough for any coach..Sunset what coach would you like to see at Michigan that is a optioin and not a prayer?.RR does need more detail to are D but speed is were colleges are going and he knows how to play that and recruit it. RR needs his time if he isent sucessfull then i say
ok with fire..but i dont think that will be the case in 3 years he will have us were we need to be..

Michigan is going to a bowl game. Which game is not clear at this time. It does not really matter which bowl game because they will be ready to play. Warm, coached, healthy and ready. Iowa will go to the Rose Bowl and get their butt handed to them by USC. Ohio State will go to a BCS bowl against the SEC and get their yearly bowl bashing. So RR will salvage the dismal season with a bowl win and get ready for a much better season next year. Remember Michigan's Bowl win two years ago. Lloyd's team got beat up during the regular season and beat a good Florida team because they were healthy, having fun and well prepared. At the same time Ohio State and others were getting pasted in bowl games. No I'm not on drugs, Michigan will do it again this year. The skinny kid will be bigger, stronger and wiser next year. Playing with Michigan, I hope!