KeepingItReal

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 6:53 p.m.

For all of you who are ready to velify Jason Whitlock, please take a close look at college sports and the tragedies it has produced. Yes, we love( or perhaps should I say, hate) the fact that a select, elite group of Black athletes prosper from the current system, but in proportion to their contributions, Black athletes, their families and community are exploited. The hypocrisy of College athletics is contributing to its implosion as an institutional body and its just a matter of time before the system is forced to change.

rocco

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 12:10 p.m.

The most amazing fact in Whitlocks article is the quote of the architect of the modern NCAA, the organizations former president, Walter Byers, who criticized the NCAA in his 1997piece, Unsportsmanlike Conduct: Exploiting the Student-Athlete. This is a critique by a person in a position to know the inner working of the NCAA, its goals and subtexts. Byers wrote: Today the NCAA Presidents Commission is preoccupied with tightening a few loose bolts in a worn machine, firmly committed to the neo-plantation belief that the enormous proceeds from college games belong to the overseers (administrators) and supervisors (coaches). The plantation workers performing in the arena may only receive those benefits authorized by the overseers. What has changed since then? If Byers is right, we should not be haranguing Whitlock but thanking him for getting us to refocus on the issue. By Byers admission, race is a large part of the issue. So lets try to have a dialogue about the NCAA and race, the genuine short and long-term needs of athletes in revenue generating sports (black and white) and see where the chips fall. I would put this discussion in an academic setting (perhaps at Michigan) and hear what all the stakeholders have to say: the coaches, current and former players, academic administrators, the agents, the media, and probably not the fans.

Jarhead

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 11:31 a.m.

Oh and one more thing. If we start paying college players it opens up a pandora's box. Next they will have agents representing them. Take the University to court as a precident has been established. Skill players will want more as they score the touchdowns. Sounds similar to some other organization....just can't think of it right now. No ONE player should be bigger that the game(Lebron James), or bigger than the team. As Bo said "The team, The team, the team"! And that is where college sports and there athletes need to remain.

Jarhead

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 11:24 a.m.

Tom Izzo is an amazing coach. All of us a Mich are pissed cause he chose Mich State. How many coaches have gone to the finall for in as many years as he has. Maybe we should ask the players if they felt like a slave or felt they had an opportunity of a lifetime to play for a premier coach at a premier basketball college. Keepingitreal.....give the players a say in how the athletic dept runs? Right...I'll send some 18 year olds over to your house. They can make decisions for you on how to run your household, how to raise your kids, give them your checkbook. All those decisions I regret that I could have back were done when I was young and STUPID. But that's just me.

Jarhead

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 10:59 a.m.

I don't blast reggie bush if he was offered a house for his parents by a booster or the coaches. But if he said "I'll come here IF you do this or that", then he is culpable. I ubderstand there are rules and penalties, I don't get returning the heisman. He was the best afterall and the house didn't buy the trophy. If the gifts were given to shave points or throw a game, then it affecting more than securing his abilities. I know I'll hear lots about that last statement. Why does Carrol get off scott free? The university and current players have to indure for a couple of years. How about this? they determine the cost of the house and whatever all. And Pete pays twice as much to the general scholarship fund, not to the athletic dept. How about Reggie piching in like wise? Reggie Bush a slave? Paalease! Ya ol' Pete, the master, whipped poor Reggie right up to a Heisman a national championship, on TV every week, his name a household word, alucrative contract in the pros. I not really sure what Reggie makes now a tear. But in the last 6 years I've seen my take-home cut in half, lost my medical insurance through my business, Every tax to my business has increased, Every expense to my business has increased,....Right, WHO'S the slave here?

Jarhead

Sat, Jul 24, 2010 : 10:40 a.m.

Was going to chime-in Fri after work but list power. Yelmonian, 81wolvwerine,bluemax, I'm with you all. I understand what Jason Whitlock was trying to do with the analogy of the slavery bit and it sure brings a lot of coversation. However to chain slavery to college athletics is a huge slap in the face to those that suffered throughout the world, throughout history. I am not picking on Reggie Bush, I will use him as a example as Jason opened the door. Reggie was never forced to play football. He could have enrolled like 95% of all the other students and studied art or whatever. Oh but wait, he trained all his live to play. Do you honestly think that all top athletes are more interested in the degree over making it to the pros? Heck no! The ones who do care are the ones who are realistic about their abilities and future. Bo was instrumental in pushing the red shirt beyond injuries. He knew it would take 5 years for athletes to get a 4 year degree. He also knew that it is us fans that they are out there every sat for. We are the ones who want wins and want the players to train hard, to go to the weight room on their own time, to to 7 on 7's on their own time, and then P and moan when they don't get good grades. We all need to look in the mirror. I can be all sanctimonious untill sat afternoon when i got a big ol' pop and hotdog waititng for the canage to begin. the system isn't perfect, but it grew to meet our demands. And yes the universities develope packages for athletes that are easier to negotiate. In the 70's it was communications, later it was kiniesiology, now its general studies. But there are non athletes in all those depts. Point is some fields require tons of research and paperwork, extra study time, some require less.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 6:26 p.m.

KeepingitReal, I read the article about UM pushing their players into general studies. I agree whole heartedly. That is wrong. The majority of the players will never be in pro football. They need the education. One of the items I have brought up frequently on this site, is the "extra practice" time that UM is on probation for. Guess what... the people on this site call me a troll for mentioning it. You are right... the athletes don't have a chance. Why don't you criticize the people that support the NCAA system in addition to the NCAA? If nobody watches, the NCAA isn't worth a billion dollars. I believe Robert Smith contemplated quitting OSU football, because Cooper wanted him to forget studying to be a doctor, and practice more. Good for Smith! He knew what was right. I am again going to state that if you hadn't listed Izzo, I would have been fine. But you called out the one coach that is constantly listed by his peers as caring about his players, and doing it right. I have heard other coaches from major programs (Virginia Techs coach) specifically state, Izzo is the coach they would want for their kid. Example. He named his son after Mateen Cleaves. That doesn't seem like Izzo is using Cleaves. He honored Cleaves, and treated him as family by doing that. Example. MSU basketball was listed in the top 10% in academics this past year. Why is that? Because Izzo demands his players go to class, and do well. If they don't, he doesn't let them practice, and if that doesn't help... he suspends them from a game. That doesn't help Izzo have a better record. It helps the athlete. Example. Travis Walton lived at Izzo's house after he returned playing basketball in Europe, so that he could use MSU's training facilities. Is that using a player? Or is that treating the player as family? Example. Magic, Richardson, Bell, Cleaves all called Izzo when Izzo was thinking of the Cleveland job. Why? Because they (as they stated) think of Izzo as family, and as MSU. My point being... you called out the wrong guy. Are there people that are taking advantage of players? Obviously yes. I could list off a dozen coaches that I think are like that. I do have a problem with you calling out people that spent the last 23 years working their way up the system, working hard, doing it as clean (relative term when you are discussing this business), and genuinely being a nice person (having met Izzo on the street in the middle of no where). Sometimes, people actually do work hard to reach their achievements in life, and should not be catagorized based on their job. Keeping it real.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 5:52 p.m.

@Yelmonian: Your use of the word "complaining" to refer to my comments about Tom Izzo demonstrates your inability to discuss relevant points. If we had other coaches in this state that was successful and has achieved the stature of Izzo, I would have referred to them as well. My central point, however, is that under the current system, Black athletes pay a heavy price for contributing to a $billion dollar sports industry and the return on their contributions amounts to nothing more than exploitation. For example; just over a year ago, there was a big expose about how these athletes at M are channeled into and overly represented in the general studies program which many of them fail to complete. If they don't make it to the pros or their eligibility is used up, they are in deep you know what. The cycle is repeated year after year and it doesn't seem to get any better and I suspect that as long as they are contributing to this $billion industry, it won't change. Let's just keep it real.

Sean T.

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 5:16 p.m.

Keepingitreal, I wasn't saying that you are playing the race-card. I was talking about the writer of the article and you make very good points about the machine of College Sports. These are the same points I was trying to make in the above post.(minus the typos) But you must realize that this horrid machine has always been used before Black Athletes were allowed to play with white players. Though, now there's far more money to be made and it's predominantly the black athlete that accrues this cash-cow. We haven't been able to capitalize on this misfortune and that remains the major issue. I'll have to state that Tom Izzo isn't the first coach to bring in minorities and there's black coaches too in our major sports across the country.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 3:07 p.m.

KeepingitReal, For you to single out Tom Izzo is wrong. If you want to say head coaches... fine. But to call out one coach, that's absurd. And then to pick Izzo. Let's see... this is the guy that left Lucious home last year for a road game, because Lucious missed class. Do you really think that benefits Izzo? No it doesn't. Guess who it does benefit (even if he doesn't realize it yet)... Lucious. Why? Because just like you said, the majority of players will not make it to the NBA. So what does Lucious get out of this? A degree. And unless Lucious actually goes to class, and learns something... that degree doesn't mean squat. Now, if you were truly interested in the well being of athletes (and not just black athletes)... then I suppose you were truly outraged at RR for exceeding practice limits established by the NCAA. I would fully expect that, in your concern for athletes being taken advantage of and then being thrown out like yesterday's garbage... you would find exceeding practice limits to be awful, because that limits the students ability to actually be a student and earn that degree. Instead of complaining about the "Izzos" of the world. Maybe you should yell at the athletes parents and AAU coaches. The athletes themselves have the world to gain by going to college. They are making contacts (because of their high profile), they are getting full ride scholarships and educations that they can use, and they potentially have the ability to be in the Pros. If the parents and AAU coaches would actually point out the value of those items, in lieu of trying to ride on their kids coattails (i.e. Reggie Bush's parents), then those athletes would realize the vaule. I can guarantee, there are a lot of 18-20 year olds sitting at home, that don't get to play for big time athletic programs, that would love to be "taken advantage" of like you are claiming. Basically, to use the "slavery" phrase, make it a black/white issue, etc irks me.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 2:38 p.m.

Sean T; Yelmonian: First of all, I don't believe in playing the "race card." I personally think it's an overused tactic. What I do believe in is looking at the fact the major revenue producing sports at your Division I Colleges and Universities are dominated by Black athletes. Their toil and efforts fund other sports activities in which there are no blacks participating or who receive scholarships. So far, do you agree with me. At this level, the individuals who control the sports and who benefit from it the most are whites. College sports is a multi-billion dollar industry and the individuals who play a critical role in making it such are African American athletes. Sure, there is a small percentage of African Americans who eventually benefit financially from the sports but there are absolutely too many black athletes who are used, mis-used and discarded after their playing days are over and vilified if they exhibit the runaway or rebellious slave syndrome. There are numerous examples of athletes who use up their eligibility, who at the end of their playing careers have absolutely nothing to show for it. If Tom Izzo did not consistently get the quality of black athletes that he's been fortunate to get, do you think he would have been as successful as he has been?...and do you think those other programs..college or pro would be clamoring for him? That's not to say that he does not care for these young men, but its their talent that's important to him. Show me one division one program that is successful and I guarantee you black athletes performance wise play a significant role. Let's keep it real.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 1:31 p.m.

And lastly... why isn't anyone blasting Garrett the AD at USC. I believe he let Mayo, Bush, Carroll, and the basketball coach take the fall. Both coaches were white. And last I checked... Garrett is black. Of course, Garrett finally got whacked this week.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 1:23 p.m.

Keepingitreal, One last item regarding this conversation. Since when is every athlete black? I can look on any of the sports teams, and various races. So to single out that Izzo should kiss the hand of every black parent. Should he not kiss the hand of the white parents too? Do we neglect Samoans, Latinos, Asians, etc? Since when did only athletes get to be black? I would have agreed with this story, if Bush was used as the example... and not called it out as black athletes. Bush was investigated, because he reached the highest pinnacle there is, won the Heisman, on the Championship team.

Sean T.

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 12:54 p.m.

The reason for the slave comparison seems to be about the inequality of money on the business side of College Sports. Though I have to agree that the education that you receive should last a lifetime and could be never taken away. The Hypocrisy of the NCAA is striking, in that you pay a kid to help produce wins and promote Video Games and T-shirts or Jerseys. Not to mention the television endorsements that the NCAA gets a share of. How many Bowl game tickets were sold? I bet the NCAA got a nice share of that money too! The Universities and the NCAA make billions of dollars from merchandising and the players get a $36,000 per year job. For the record, I believe that there are White Football players that play football too, so the writer is just playing the race-card to get an up rise out of everyone. Finally, I bet there are over 20 NBA and 110 College teams that take Tom Izzo as their coach.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 10:31 a.m.

Keepingitreal, Are you serious? Izzo not a good coach? And what makes a good coach to you? MSU's basketball program has a stellar academic record, in addition to the winning record. Izzo holds these kids accountable. And in the end, the majority respect him and consider him family. And really? You have a business (and that is what the NCAA is) that is worth billions, with mega TV stations transmitting to millions of people across the country... and you are going to let the 18 year old kid help make a decision in the process? Are you people really that naive? The 18 year old kid has no idea of all the implications of even the minorist decision. Geesh... let the kids have input. Heck... most parents won't let the kids have input on which new car to by for the family. But Hey! Let's let the kids have input on how to run an athletic department worth 100's of millions. And if I hear that an athlete is no more than a slave... I'm going to puke. I HAD TO PAY MY TUITION, AND TAKE LOANS TO GET THROUGH SCHOOL. These kids get tuition, they get tutors, they get special study halls reserved for them, they get room and board, and they get to see things you and I probably never will. Are there rules, Yes, but as bluemax points out... it's only a few schools that could afford to pay athletes. If these rules were not in effect, there would not be competion. Just a hand full of schools that can compete each year. Enough of the Slave comparison. That's as phony as comparing current politicians to Hitler.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 8:34 a.m.

bluemax79: Paying the players is just one solution albeit a big one. While a college scholarship is certainly valuable, not all athletes need to go to college in order to succeed at their chosen profession. I think that college athletic need to be overhaul to the extent that the players have a greater say in how things are ran. Right now, the athlete is no more than a slave when you look at the rules and regulations governing his behavior, activities and action. Yet, you have coaches like Tom Isso, who need to kiss the hand of every black parent whose kids has played for him, who become millionaires (he's not a good coach) and influential representatives of their university and state. Lebron James was villified for leaving Cleveland, yet, Cleveland tried like hell to get Tom Izzo and everybody was sweating bullets waiting to see if he would leave. The colleges, coaches and NCAA has too much power and the people who make the system go, has none. That needs to change especially at these big time universities and I predict it will and when it happens, it will be traumatic to the system. When the athletes realize the power they have and demand to stop being villified for asserting their rights as freemen, then the system will change.

bluemax79

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 8:04 a.m.

people who think athletes should be paid in college are not looking at the realities of MOST athletic departments. Could schools like Michigan or OSU pay athletes as well as the cost of their scholorship? they probably could. Could schools athletic departments like msu, western Michigan, Central or Eastern pay them? HIGHLY doubtful, most of these schools are taking taxpayer money to keep their athletic departments afloat. They discount their scholarships and don't pay full price already (Michigan is one of the few that pay full price to the universtiy for it's athletes and take NO taxpayer money for their athletic departments) if these smaller or less successfulk A.D.s were forced to pay players you would see schools forced to cut sports to pay for them! So now instead of that kid who got a baseball scholarship to go to college maybe he doesn't get one because they cut the sport (mens sports would go first since title IX would require it) Now you have one less kid (or hundreds of black or white kids) that may not be able to go to college get a degree and get a good job and break the poverty cycle. you can't just say they schools are making millions, the coaches are making millions the players need a share of it. THEY ALEADY GET A SHARE! a FREE education! if they chose not to take advantage of it then it is THEIR fault not the colleges or Coaches fault. If you want to start something make sure you make every school fund scholarships for kids who cannot finish school in 4-5 years or who leave early and cannot make it in pro sports. EDUCATION is the key for these black kids he talks about, NOT a pro contract that so few will ever receive. Not schools bankrupting their athletic departments to pay a kid a $5,000/year or whatever figure they propose to pay stipend. Do you think that player from Florida who took $100,000 would have changed his mind when an agent offerred him $100,000 before the bowl game if he weas getting paid by Florida? you have to cut these agents off, they do something like this they cannot represent players for the NFL, NBA or whatever. Paying the players is not the answer.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 7:55 a.m.

81 Wolverine: All the questions you raised about how athletes will be reimbursed can be resolved just like it has been for the colleges and conferences to split the proceeds or how to expand the conference or add games to the schedule. The questions you raised are really bogus and a weak attempt to deflect from the fact that the current system is more akind to slavery that true capitalism.

KeepingItReal

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 7:17 a.m.

Amen Jason. I predict these black athletes will soon realize just how much power they have and will launch a boycott of major college football and basketball. When they do, the system is going to suffer some severe impact that will change the dynamics of college sports for years to come. As long as these athletes act like docile kids and stay in their place and perform, people like Tater, PortageLkBlu and 81 Wolverine revere them but the minute they do anything "wrong" or get out of their "place" then all of a sudden they are dispicable human beings. I hope that I am around when these athletes boycott the system.

PortageLkBlu

Fri, Jul 23, 2010 : 4:26 a.m.

We are not stupid people and we know the difference between right and wrong. I smell a skunk here. Like a lot of journalists around the country right now the personal beliefs they have of the difference between both morally right or wrong issues matters very little versus getting any old story out that will get them attention. after reading this story you can see that getting the truth out there can be secondary to getting attention. Do you really believe this guy is being honest of course not he's full of ---- and he could care less if you know it cause he got some attention.

81wolverine

Thu, Jul 22, 2010 : 6:25 p.m.

Whitlock has done another hack job of journalism here, playing the race card multiple times as Tater accurately pointed out. The real problem here is the incredibly un-even, biased way he wrote his article, not even attempting to point out the positive side of the system he refers to as a "for profit scam". Comparing Reggie Bush (and presumably other black student-athletes) to Kunta Kinte is almost laughable if it were not so demeaning. Yes, the "system" is far from perfect. But, to ignore the gigantic benefits these star athletes receive is a crime to fair journalism. They've all had access to a full-ride scholarship at a 4 year university which can run upwards of $100,000 in value easily. They've received free coaching and access to world-class training facilities for up to 4 years. They've received huge exposure on national TV which enables them to sign lucrative NFL contracts. Didn't Bush "cash in like a white man" when he was drafted by the Saints? If that's slavery, sign me up. Whitlock can criticize the system all he wants. That's easy. What's hard is offering a legitimate alternative that allows everyone an equal chance at playing college football without the obvious corruption problem. For example, if student athletes were paid like Whitlock is obviously favoring - who stipulates how much they are paid? How do you prevent the richest college programs from "buying" all the best players? Again, easy to criticize. Hard to come up with something better. Finally, let's talk about personal and institutional responsibility. Bush, Carroll, and USC knew the rules and knowingly broke them. I hate to tell Whitlock this, but there ARE rules in life that you agree to and need to stick to. It's called taking responsibility for one's actions. All these players who sign letters of intent and enroll at colleges are made aware of the rules, or certainly should be. Whitlock is trying to shift the blame away from Bush/USC/Carroll and toward the big, bad NCAA "plantation" overseers. Bottom line: Whitlock has an argument to make. But, he blew it completely via bad journalism. If I were Ball State's School of Journalism, I'd be doing some serious damage control right now.

PortageLkBlu

Thu, Jul 22, 2010 : 4:32 p.m.

Whitlock has a right to his opinion some of it I agree with and some of it is well I don't want to go there. I to feel where is the justice when it comes to the Pete Carrol's of college football. To be honest though a lot of USC fans I didn't say all I said,"a lot of USC fans", were happy with the great seasons Pete gave them be damned the violations. So, in the grand scheme of things maybe some of the blame falls on us the fans. There are a lot of fans at Mich. right now that would love to win at all costs since those last 2 seasons.