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Posted on Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 12:30 p.m.

Ex-coach Lloyd Carr discusses Michigan's early success, rising expectations under Brady Hoke

By Kyle Meinke


Former Michigan coach Lloyd Carr says he thinks current Wolverines coach Brady Hoke understands what it takes to manage rising expectations.

Angela J. Cesere |

Lloyd Carr knows all about fast starts, after debuting as the Michigan football team's interim coach by erasing a 17-0 deficit in a memorable win against Virginia.

He also knows how difficult it is to sustain momentum, after proceeding to lose four games in that 1995 season.

That's part of why he has such great appreciation for what Brady Hoke accomplished in his first year as Michigan's coach: 11-2 record, beat Ohio State and won a Sugar Bowl championship.

And he did it with players who were chewed up their previous three seasons.

"In my judgment, what he did last year was really special because he came in and he took a group of kids that he hadn't recruited and he earned their trust and their respect, and you could see the way they played," Carr said Tuesday during an interview on the Huge Show.

"I mean, that team played hard from start to finish, and I think that's a mark of a coach. Do your players play hard all the time?"

Part of what stunted former coach Rich Rodriguez's tenure was the team's slow start in 2008, when it went a program-worst 3-9.

Rodriguez insisted on running his spread-option offense, even though he had players -- and especially quarterbacks -- better equipped for a more traditional pro-style offense. He said it would help expedite Michigan's move to the new offense -- and it proved to be true, as the Wolverines put up big offensive numbers in 2009 and 2010.

But 2008 was a black mark.

Carr said he believes Michigan was so successful in Hoke's first season because he didn't ask players to operate a system that wasn't fit for their skill sets -- particularly dual-threat quarterback Denard Robinson.

"I think they did a tremendous job offensively, utilizing Denard (and) what he can do, as opposed to trying to force him to try to do things they'd like to do," Carr said in the interview.

"But I think the big difference was certainly on defense. I thought that staff took a group of players that had not had much success the previous three years and molded them into a team that really fought and got better and better. And, I think their kicking game was much better."

Carr said he learned under former Michigan coach Bo Schembechler that an important measure for a coach and team is how they finish a season.

"And of course, when you look at Brady's team beating Nebraska and Ohio State and Virginia Tech to end the season, I think it gave great momentum to their recruiting, I think it gave great momentum to their program, and I think he did a wonderful job," Carr said.

Now, Michigan is facing rising expectations ahead of a season in which it will face one of the most difficult schedules in the country. There's also been considerable turnover on both lines, points of emphasis with Hoke.

Carr isn't worried, citing Hoke's eight-year run as a Michigan assistant for him from 1995-2002.

"(Hoke) certainly has enough experience at Michigan to know what the expectations are, and those aren't going to change," Carr said. "If anything, they're going to get higher. So, that's why there's no off days for a coaching staff.

"I think he's got a coaching staff that is very motivated -- very young in some instances, but they're a veteran group with him. He brought basically his whole staff here from San Diego State. They will know this fall because they played so well, and had such a wonderful season a year ago, there's no doubt the expectations are going to be very high."

Carr also discussed in the interview his retirement, induction into the College Football Hall of Fame and the scandal at Penn State. Check out the full audio here.

Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.


Ed daggett

Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 6:18 p.m.

I asked at a Lansing Golf Course-can't recall outing name. Tim Stoudt was there as MC. I stated that Bo received support from Bump & Bo supported both Moeller & LC. Making $388K as associate AD what did he do to support RR. He gave his standard answer he did not want to be around football when he left. Afterwards I asked Stoudt if question was 'to harsh'. He said no. I even asked Carr 1 on 1 if to harsh & he said no. He than stated RR never asked him to speak to team or for advise. I know from Martin, Regent & RR & his staff this was a misrepresentation.

Ed daggett

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 9:20 p.m.

In front of about 150 people I asked LC why he did not support RR and he gave not response. There is a reason why he only goes to events where he can control the audiance. LC proved to be the Benndict Arnold of M football. He was a good coach who turned out to be a bad person. Kind of like the guy at State College

Blu n Tpa

Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 12:03 p.m.

I think you are confused. Coach Carr could see that he had no class or judgement whenever this supoosed question took place. Your friend's poor judgement and lack of class appears to be a long term condition. Here's one for all of you who felt RR got a raw deal. (RR groupies NEVER answer this one.) What did you see in the WCiMFH last three games that would lead you to believe the team was moving in the right direction?


Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 4:08 a.m.

Carr didn't answer him because he just now compared him to Joe Paterno? Yeah, that makes about as much sense as most of your arguments.

Blu n Tpa

Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 2:37 a.m.

Name the time and place you asked Coach Carr that question? Your comparison to PSU shows a true lack of class and judgement. And you wonder why Coach Carr didn't respond to you. Really?

Fran Nowak

Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 1:36 a.m.

Who is Ed D. that a hall of fame coach has to answer your questions. Is he under oath are you a special reporter? To compare Coach Carr to Joe Paterno you should be ashamed of yourself. Take a hike and go root for somebody else we Michigan football fans don't need you.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 10:45 p.m.

Ed, Lloyd has done a lot of good things, that I do believe. The bad things folks are grumbling about, I have no vision of it to substantiate it to myself, it's all things I'm hearing second hand.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:15 p.m.

I'd like to believe that many of the things I read and these discussions are a lot of gossip gone bad. Mich. has turned a corner with the hire of Brady and I'm going with that and consider the past just that, the past. Lloyd did a good job at Mich. and RR tried to do something that in a relatively short period, it and he were not accepted. Was all of it fair, probably not but what I do know is I think we have a solid staff for now and the near future and I'm going to focus on now and especially that first game and the whole 2012 season for that matter.

Blu n Tpa

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:15 p.m.

Lloyd Carr College Football Hall of Fame inductee RR WCiMFH Anything else is excess!

Blu n Tpa

Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 2:29 a.m.

Simple minded? I think not but you are welcome to your unresearched opinon. (Having read some of your stuff that's not a surprise. But that doesn't matter to some here so keep plugging away. Those who are truly simple minded find you enlightened) Is Coach Carr a recent inductee to the College Football Hall of Fame? Is RR not the WCiMFH (Worst Coach in Michigan Football History)? Coaches are suppose to win. (example Coach Hoke) Those that don't get fired (RR) (This is what I meant by excess.) TiM Go Blue!


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:37 p.m.

Nothing is ever that simple unless you are simple minded.

Blu n Tpa

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:03 p.m.

I am. Thank You. And Yes!


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:15 p.m.

You sound like a huge football expert. Great analysis, it really is that simple, isn't it.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 3:53 a.m.

Most people within the football program knew well in advance that Lloyd Carr was retiring that year. I'm not 'inside' the program and I knew in June. Lloyd wanted one of his own guys hired for the job, so don't tell me he wasn't trying to bring in the best student athletes for the program. Blame Bill Martin for the debacle know as RichRod. Coach Carr was a terrific coach and mentor to those young men within the football program.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:34 a.m.

Actually, blame Carr for Rich Rod. The first person associated with Michigan to bring up Rich Rod's name in relation to the coaching search was Lloyd. Lloyd was the first person to contact Rich Rod. It was his idea in the first place. What happened between that phone call and the day he basically told the team to get out of dodge because Rich Rod was coming, we may never know. But it stinks to the high Heavens.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:14 a.m.

Did he discuss anything about the book 3 and out ? Oh, Kyle - you didn't ask him ? What a surprise! Someone get a video camera and confront him. I have twice in person and he has given me a blank stare and kept walking both times. Until he speaks on the 3andout book, Carr is done to me.


Sun, Aug 5, 2012 : 5:55 p.m.

super successful? I'm getting a blank stare just reading your comments...


Fri, Aug 3, 2012 : 2:02 a.m.

Edjasbord, John Bacon, in "Three and out", said that he had multiple references to all his statements. He even said that he left out some things because he didn't have enough references. He even publishes his references so people can back track is work. So that goes to show that he makes sure all his information is accurate and can be backed up before he writes it. Also, if what was said in that book is not true then: 1. why has NOBODY said anything about it to refute it? 2. Why hasn't Lloyd Carr try to defend himself? 3. Why did LC refuse to interview for the book 8 times, when JB was writing it? 4. Why hasn't Bill Martin stepped forward to defend himself? 5. Why hasn't Mary Sue Coleman stepped up to defend herself, or LC or BM? 6. Why have absolutely NO reporters anywhere came out with a story where they contacted MSC, LC, BM or any past player in the book to see if any of this is true? You know why, because it IS true. The book has been out for a while now, and NOBODY of any importance is saying anything about anything in the book being false. LC has repeatedly denied interviews about the book and refuses to comment on it. Silence is guilt in this aspect. It may be biased, but true is true. Oh, and by the way, JB graduated from Michigan with two masters degrees. He loves Michigan, and has been around the campus and the sports programs for many years. He has written many books about Michigan, all in a positive and well researched manor. He has been working in journalism for many many years and is well respected in the journalism community. Just because you don't like what somebody says about something you like, doesn't mean it isn't true. As a true blue Michigan fan for over 30 years, I realize that not everything in Michigan is perfect. Sometimes it's a hard pill to swallow to find out a person you like isn't who you really expected. But you can't keep looking at it through rose colored glasses.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:52 p.m.

edjasbord You mean like everyone blames Rich Rodriguez entirely? Seriously, he couldn't have summoned such a perfect storm all by himself if he had done it on purpose and had time to plan.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 5:13 p.m.

Carr throughout his coaching career stayed pretty clear of the media. His refusal to grant Bacon an interview or comment on what is a decidedly biased book is pretty consistent with his behavior on such matters throughout his professional life. He owes no one any explanation. It is his choice and he is free to make it. I doubt very much that he cares at all about what people think of him with regard to the material in that book.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:51 p.m.

@ Commoncents "but I wasn't disrespectful to Carr at all in my opinion. If anything, by giving a blank stare he was rude to me." I really have to question your one-sided determination as to what is disrespectful. Because you speak from the wrong side - social interaction requires us to put ourselves in our interlocutor's shoes. Can you acknowledge that Carr also has an opinion, and that his opinion might be the most important opinion as to whether you were being disrespectful or not? Its a subjective determination on the part of the recipient. Also, your association of a refusal to answer questions with some sort of fault is funny from afar, somewhat scary if I were in your inner circle. Carr will not acknowledge Bacon's book. Period. You might, as a respectful MIchigan fan, give him the benefit of the doubt that his refusal to acknowledge the book means he disagrees entirely, on the whole, with the book. That merely acknowledging it gives it too much validity. No, its too easy to fine one person to blame - especially if that person remains quiet. Keep taking the easy road.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:13 p.m.

edjasbord: Shame on me ? You don't even know what I said so how can you judge ? This is what I said to him essentially both times, "Coach - I'm a huge fan! When are you going to answer a few questions about 3 and out and set the public straight, we need your side". Edjasbord needs to relax. Sure, I think if you refuse to answer a single question on the book you must be hiding something, but I wasn't disrespectful to Carr at all in my opinion. If anything, by giving a blank stare he was rude to me. Also - I realize Carr wasn't interviewed in the book, but that's only because Carr wouldn't talk about any of the things in the book. Carr declined interview SEVERAL times. I spoke to John Bacon about it and he says he doesn't understand why the media doesn't ask him about it. Bacon told me he tried really hard to get a couple comments from Carr, but nothing. Carr is completely silent on everything and will not answer any questions about it. I talked to Angelique at Detroit News as well and she says she's actually tried but he won't answer a question about it. I'd like to see a few articles on it - Hey Michigan fans, here are the aligations - I asked Lloyd Carr and he says no comment - meanwhile all these other people are saying this... Report the facts, don't hide from the story. Look at the comments section of this article of a PICTURE of lloyd. It's an important story to the fans. Plus, you must be blind with loyalty if you don't at least wonder why he won't defend himself. It's fishy at best.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:21 p.m.

Also, shame on you Commoncents for harassing Coach Carr, who has done so much for this football program, university, and community (e.g., national title, Motts). His 'response' to you was as classy as it could have been under the circumstances - for someone who takes as gospel a journalist's subjective version of events, while failing to give any benefit of the doubt to one of the most successful, erudite, and giving coaches in Michigan Football history. Shame on you.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:04 p.m.

'Three and Out' is quite one-sided. It's clear, from a sociological methodology perspective, that the author of that book was biased toward the person who granted him access (RR). It's a common outcome, one that often requires a highly trained researchers to avoid. One glaring piece of evidence is that Carr was not interviewed for that book, yet he was still implicitly maligned. Its just sad that so many readers dont recognize this and instead take the book as a proxy for "the truth."


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 11:17 a.m.

Who cares ? The point is no one in the media will ask Carr questions about 3 and out. Just imagine if a SUPER successful book was written about YOU and it had a bunch of terrible lies in it. Now imagine refusing to comment on it. You can't, can you ? Now imagine if some of the things were true.... now can you imagine not wanting to comment ? The media needs to step up and ask this man questions other than this garbage article about how Lloyd thinks Michigan improved last year. Not only is that obvious, but it's boring.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 3:48 a.m.

Kyle didn't do the interview at all, it was a broadcast interview that he (Kyle) happens to be reporting about.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 12:33 a.m.

Say what you want about Carr but Carr won a National Title, BCS games, and was about .500 vs OSU which is pretty solid considering how many good teams OSU has had. He did recruit well, that is an established fact. The whole "he left the cupboard empty" is a tired and overall weak argument. True they had less talent than normal going into '08, but they had one of the best QB's in the country on the roster in Ryan Mallett. Also, I'm sure he did tell players he'd be willing to sign their transfer papers; that is only reasonable. The kids were recruited to play in a pro style scheme and they were Carr's guys. As a college football player that would make me think long and hard about what's best for me if the AD is bringing in some hot shot younger coach with a reputation of being a jerk and also runs a spread offense.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:36 p.m.

Why is it that when players left when Carr left it was because "they were recruited for a pro-style offense and were Carr's guys", and that was fine. But the the commentary on the players who left when Hoke came on board were "oh, they were never Michigan Men anyway" or "if their heart isn't with Michigan, we don't want them" or "they must not have been tough enough for the new regime" and nonsense like that? The players who left when RR arrived weren't dedicated to the University of Michigan. Period. They weren't "Carr's guys", they were Michigan athletes. If they left because of a coaching or scheme change, then they never should have been here in the first place.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.

Good points Aaron on why Carr would, and should have, signed transfer papers. Well-stated.

Blue Marker

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 11:12 a.m.

tag, fact checking would take time and SEC is buzy hatin'! FACT!


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 3:56 a.m.

SEC Fan, you should do some fact checking. Pretty sure Michigan won the Rose Bowl in that "shared" national title season.

Ed daggett

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:15 a.m.

Mallett had questionable character--check trouble at M, Arkansas & NFL reports. M had a total of 14 seniors on roster last two yrs RR was here. He was playing with frosh/soph against seniors. Remember it was Mary Sue, Regents & Martin who hired RR. He did not hire M. The actions of Carr and others is one of worst chapters in M athletic history & LC never would have done what he did with Bo or Canham alive. Regarding his "recruiting well" --toward end of his career a lot of mistakes were made.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:14 a.m.

no...he "shared" a national title during the Poll era. Other FACTS: - won only 46% of his bowl games. - won 1 of 4 BCS bowl games (25%) - LOST 100% (3) of his Rose Bowl games - 7 of 13 seasons with less than 10 wins. oh yeah...what a "superior" coach. well, by big10 standards I guess that is superior.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:11 a.m.

"that is only reasonable?". I thought Carr would have told these student athletes to stay at this elite higher educational institution rather than transferring. Wouldn't a Michigan Man have done that?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 12:27 a.m.

Rich lacked character and that was a well established fact before Michigan hired him. Martin shopped around and settled on Rich. He knew all along Rod wasn't a "Michigan man." Martin panicked and caved in so he could bring in a popular name with the popular gimmick flavor of the half decade offense. I moved from Michigan to Pittsburgh about a year before Carr "retired" and Rich was hired. I can distinctly remember hearing all sorts of unsavory things about Rodriguez back then. His WVU program was dirty and would take any fast kid they could get in. When he came to Michigan he tried/did the same thing...the only difference was he'd cut the kid when he inevitably got in trouble. Hoke is still dealing with some of the problem kids Rich recruited.

Blue Marker

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 11:10 a.m.

Aaron, Despite what you might have heard Coach Lloyd Carr did retire on his own free will. He wasn't forced out in any way. That's why he maintained an office on campus for 2 years after he retired. There's no wink-wink or quotation marks needed.

Ed daggett

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 12:02 a.m.

For three yrs this guy was an Associate AD at M making $388K per yr & would not support the program & kids he recruited when RR was coach. It is well documented he encouraged players to leave M. Why is he talking now? When he left M after the App State fiasco he left M with the fewest amount of All Big Ten players & fewest draft picks in 50 yrs at M. LC is no Bo---he is not even a Bump Elliott who supported his replacement as coach at M---just like Bo did for LC when he had tough times. For those who know the truth---and more former players do now---his legacy is forever tarnished.


Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 8:25 p.m.

The Way, no is going to respond to his book because no one wants to argue over someone who is long gone. You make the error of assuming that because a writer is respected that they are somehow immune from being biased. That simply is not true. John Bacon was immersed in the Rodriguez staff. That inevitably will impact how a person writes a story.


Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 8:22 p.m.

Carr's former players love him. He also did not leave UM after the Appy State debacle. You are insinuating that he quit after the first game.That is grossly inaccurate. He also left behind quite a few talented players. Brandon Graham, Morgan Trent, Brandon Minor, Kevin Koger, Greg Matthews, Kenny Demens. Ryan VanBergan, Mike Martin, Junior Hemingway, Donovan Warren, Terrence Taylor…to name a few off the top of my head. That is a list that has a range of great to good players. You cannot blame Carr for Rich Rodriguez' inability to maximize that talent by doing what Borgsas did last year--run a system that melded the present and the past. Borgas schemed to his players strengths. Rodriguez did not. Your ignorance forever tarnishes your reputation as a poster on here.


Sun, Aug 5, 2012 : 5:52 p.m.

um, haven't heard too many of Carr's former players complain about him. RR, on the other hand...Anyway, Carr will have a building named after him, despite the whiny wolverine fans.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:32 p.m.

Uh, John U. Bacon is one of the most respected journalists in Michigan. There's a reason not a single person has refuted the facts in his book.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:10 p.m.

Edjasbord, so the book he wrote with Bo is biased also?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:59 p.m.

Its well-document where? In 3 and Out? That book is quite biased, and I have not read any other documentation anywhere. It's clear, from a sociological methodology perspective, that the author of that book was co-opted by the person who granted him access (RR). It's a common outcome, one that often requires a highly trained researchers to avoid. Its just sad that so many readers dont recognize this and instead take the book as a proxy for "the truth."


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10:08 p.m.

Carr recruited awesome, all else is just a myth. RR drove away a starting receiver, offensive lineman and QB. RRs teams played completely incompetent, Carr's team played their hearts out and beat Tim Tebow and Florida. Carr haters are represented by the minority faction of spoiled and whiny wolverine fans...


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 5:27 p.m.

two loses against USC, a team FEW schools could beat, and barely lost against Vince Young at TX. If my memory serves me right, Michigan was a HUGE underdog against Florida. I'll take his bowl record anytime. beat alabama twice, auburn, arkansas, florida twice, etc. don't remember playing purdue or indiana in a bowl game...


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.

Leo LC needed to go. His first half of his head coaching career at UofM was good but his second half was way worse. Besides the loss to app st. His first 6 years he won 78.4% of his games, averaged 2.6 losses a season, won a NC, And won 4 of his 6 bowl games. The last seven years he dropped to a 72.8% winning percentage, averaged 3.4 losses a season, NO NC, and lost 5 of 7 bowl games. One big factor his players won the last game against Florida is that they knew it was his last game. He needed to go.

Blu n Tpa

Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.

SEC Fan But he didn't lose 50% of his bowl games vs SEC teams did he? hahahahaha! "Bama, Auburn, Florida, Arkansas, and Florida (he did that twice, Outback and Capital One Bowls) all lost to Coach Carr led Michigan teams. He did lose to Tenn. but that team was stacked. How come you never tell anyone whose team you back? Is it Ole Miss or can't you decide? My guess is it's UF and you can't stand the fact that Michigan beat them TWICE in FLORIDA! This is Michigan! Go Blue!


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:05 a.m.

Pulllleeeeaaazzzzze! oooohhhh...wolvy and carry beat tim tebow and the 8-4 gator team! woooooooo... FACT is that mr. carr won only 46% of his bowl games! oooooohhhh...wolvy can beat the likes of indiana...purdue...but once you're in a real game...lose more than 1/2!


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10:39 p.m.

And lost to App State with all those All American players. Leo, don't you remember when everyone was clamoring for Carr to get out and be replaced with Miles? Were you one of those guys? At that time, there was an awful lot of the Michigan faithful who wanted Carr out. I guess over the years people forget those things.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10 p.m.

Chiro 19 Explains how good the recruiting classes were during Lloyd years at Michigan, yet RC and 7718 ignore the facts. Haters will hate no matter what. Lloyd Carr was a great coach and even a greater person.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10:36 p.m.

I never said I hated Carr or Michigan did I? I'm just stating an observation.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 9:21 p.m.

Kyle you mention that Michigan had players- especially quarterbacks better equipped of a pro style offense. Let's think back and see who was there...Sheridan, Threat and Cone. Yeah. You also say Hoke did it with players who were chewed up the previous three seasons, they were almost entirely under classmen those three years. It's tough to win in the big ten, or any conference for that matter, when you're playing first or second year kids. When you interviewed Carr did you ask him why he left the cupboard bare?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:30 p.m.

Could it be that Rich Rodriguez didn't hold a meeting with the team and tell them he'd sign their transfer papers if they wanted to go? Maybe he left with more class than the great LLoyd Carr did? Maybe he recruited kids who were more dedicated to Michigan that LLoyd had his last few years? Nah, none of that could be true, right?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:53 p.m.

7718 and TheWay might want to ask Hoke how he and Mattinson were able to produce a top-level defense out of one of the worst defenses in the country for the 3 prior years. Then ask them how they were able to convince nearly all players on both sides to stay during the transition - at least maintaining the 'cupboard' they were left with (one could also easily argue that, from the results on the field the previous 3 years, their cupboard was bare in terms of talent). Then ask yourselves why RR and his crew were not able to do either. And then ask yourselves, try to do it with a straight face, how on earth one could blame the RR debacle on Carr?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:30 a.m.

You mean the same Ryan Mallett that was talking about transferring in APRIL 2007, well before anybody had any idea Rich Rod would be in Ann Arbor in 8 months? The same Ryan Mallett who's dad has said ON RECORD that LLoyd told him to transfer? The same Ryan Mallett who is FROM Arkansas and would have chosen the Razorbacks over Michigan if Mitch Mustain hadn't been there? The same Ryan Mallett who just so happened to transfer to an Arkansas team which Mitch Mustain had just left? Interesting. Do you actually think there was anything Rich Rod could have said to get Mallett to stay?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:52 a.m.

You left out Ryan Mallett.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 8:43 p.m.

Carr, recruited, terrible.. at the end... Rich Rod. didn't have much to work with. then everybody bailed out.. i can not remember how many left the team. but it was a bunch. one guy went to Ohio... offensive line man... I think rich rod.. was a jerk, still is a as#ole. and allways be one... But Carrs teams at the end were not very good.. he still lives off 1998.. reputation..


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 8:28 p.m.

@edjasbord First off, the term "RR apoligist" is just ridiculous. But I digress. Secondly, the blog does anything BUT oversimplify things. They break down numbers ad nauseum and never, ever makes blanket statements as absurd as you suggest. They pantently DO NOT simply blame Carr's late career recruiting deficiencies for the defensive woes of the Rich Rodriguez era. They blame Greg Robinson to a great extent, and then Rodriguez for not only hiring him in the first place but for handcuffing him and forcing him to coach a system he wasn't comfortable with. But hey, keep making things up. But it's not even just that blog. There are several Michigan blogs, written by incredibly intelligent, passionate alumni, who agree with them; Maize 'n' Brew, Burgeoning Wolverine Star, and Holdin' The Rope just to name a few. But I realize it's easier to just stick your fingers in your ears and yell "Nananananananana", so why don't you just keep doing that, hm?


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.

@ TheWay The blog you reference was, and still is to some extent, an infamous home of RR apologists. As for your logic, knowledge of Michigan football, and whether YOU should be talking, ask Greg Mattinson how coaching relates to amount of talent on a roster and product on the field. Then ask Hoke how coaching leadership translates into keeping current players on the roster during a transition. You, as well as the blog you reference irresponsibly, cheaply ignore those two very important aspects of coaching, and just blame the horrible defense we had under RR on the players and on Carr. Vastly oversimplified. Even laughable.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:27 a.m.

chiro19, there is a great, great Michigan blog that broke down the 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 recruiting classes and how they panned out on the field. The result was that those recruiting classes, while highly ranked at the time, were some of the thinnest in the last 40 years at Michigan. If you don't think the 2008 team was least talented Michigan team you've ever seen in your lifetime, you're either kidding yourself or you're just not fit to be talking about football.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 9:34 p.m.

Your statement about recruiting is incorrect. Go to any recruiting website and you will see from 02'-08' Michigan was averaged at 8-10th in the nation recruiting. This entire thing is summed up by asking yourself this question. How many times was Michigan out matched in every aspect of the game between 96'-07'? Jan 1st 02'- Tennessee 45-17., 02' #3 iowa 34-9, 07' Oregon 39-7. 3 times RR time- 08' ND- 35-17, 08' Illinois- 45-20, 08' PSU- 46-17, 08' OSU- 42-7, 09' PSU- 35-10, 09' Illi.- 38-13, 09' Wisc- 45-24, 10' MSU 34-17, 10' Iowa 38-28 (Mich scored 21 in the 4th), 10' PSU 41-31, 10' Wisc 48-28, 10' OSU 37-7, 11' MSU 52-14! 13 times!!!! RR is the worst coach in Michigan History!!! He sucks! I do not wish him luck in Arizona I hope he is horrible there as well because of his destruction of the Michigan program over his tenure!


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 8:33 p.m.

Coach Carr is awesome!


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 8:10 p.m.

When Rich Rod was hired Carr spoke to the team and told them he would sign any transfer papers they wanted signed. He hated RR and screwing him was fine even if it meant undermining the team. Think about that. Carr should just go away. he's not a "Michigan man" if being a Michigan man means having honor. . He also gave us our most shameful loss ever against Appalachia state.


Tue, Aug 7, 2012 : 8:13 p.m.

Scott, I think Carr's contribution to Mott greatly outweigh sany alleged misdeeds by Carr behind the scenes. Who knows if it is true. Journalists quite often do not get the entire story. One has to remember that Bacon was 'imbedded" with Rodriguez. The bias that can come with such close contact can influence how a story is depicted.This is one reason some in the media denounced imbeds with the military during the Iraq conflict. Carr is a Michigan Man. There is no doubt about that. His track record at Michigan as a coach and as a benefactor is and was superb. You mention Appalachian State, but you neglect to mention the national title he brought to UM. That makes me think you are more of RichRod fan than an UM fan because any true blue fan will always remember Carr first as the man who brought us something Bo could not--a national title.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 4:14 p.m.

@leo The book is called "three and out" and written by John Bacon. JB graduated from UofM with a degree in journalism, he is a Michigan man and also penned a book about Bo called "Bo's lasting lesson" another great book. JB spent THREE years behind the scenes with RR. Just because somebody says something bad about somebody you like diesn't mean it isn't true. LC actually is the one that called RR and told him to contact UofM about the job. Yes LC got RR the job. Then turned around and backstabbed him and signed players transfers. If half of what was in that book is true, I lost a lot of respect for LC. And that is not me supporting RR either. Just saying.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 3:51 a.m.

Maybe Lloyd knew RR wasn't the right hire. However, Lloyd's a classy guy and offering 20 year olds to sign their walking papers wasn't the right thing to do. He represented UM, was still the head coach, and being paid the University. He doens't need to "go away", he's still an important part of UM football history.


Thu, Aug 2, 2012 : 2:02 a.m.

Scott...we are not supposed to speak facts and truth here. drink the cool aid...drink the cool aid.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.

Azwolverine, there was quite a bit of experience and talent differences between the team that lost to App State and the team that lost to Toledo as I recall.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 11:02 p.m.

Totally agree, Scott. Let's also not forget the time he reamed out an announcer on TV as he was going into the locker room, for simply asking a question.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10:20 p.m.

Let's see, App St was 14-2 National Champs...Toledo was 3-9 MAC bottom feeder. And while App St was 1-AA, so was Marshall when they walked into the MAC and dominated. App St was infinitely better than Toledo.


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 10:04 p.m.

guess you read that lousy book (what's it called?), by that lousy writer (what's his name?). Very one sided...


Wed, Aug 1, 2012 : 8:28 p.m.

Carr seemed to know something it took the rest of us 3 years to find out. Anyway, it's just a glitch in history at this point.