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Posted on Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 6:52 p.m.

Michigan State plays 'dirty,' but Michigan lacked grit necessary to win the rivalry game

By Kyle Meinke


Michigan quarterback Denard Robinson was on the receiving end of much of Michigan State's physical play on Saturday.

Melanie Maxwell |

EAST LANSING -- Jerel Worthy said what Michigan players wouldn't.

This game was dirty.

It was all part of the Spartans' physical game plan against the No. 11 Wolverines (6-1, 2-1), who were beaten and battered in a 28-14 loss to Michigan State -- their fourth loss in a row to the in-state rival.

Several Michigan players and coach Brady Hoke brushed aside notions this was a dirty game, despite the Spartans' 13 penalties. They also committed six of the game's seven personal fouls, including a late hit on quarterback Denard Robinson that ended the junior's day late in the fourth quarter.

There was another roughing the passer, a horse-collar tackle on which a Michigan State player tried to bring down kick returner Martavious Odoms by his hair, a punch to Taylor Lewan's neck and a twist of Robinson’s helmet at the bottom of a pile.

Spartans defensive end William Gholston, who picked up two of those personal fouls, including the one for twisting Robinson's head after a play had ended, said their game plan was to play with "reckless abandonment."

Hoke said after the game he didn't think the No. 23 Spartans (5-1, 2-0) played dirty, and would watch the film before saying more.

Worthy wasn't so modest.

Was this a dirty game?

"Definitely," Michigan State's star junior defensive tackle said. "Any rivalry you have like that, there’s always going to be little cheap shots and everything like that. We just got to play through it.

"It’s football, at the end of the day. It’s man on man, and we got to overcome it."

But all the personal fouls went against the Spartans. What's up with that?

"Yeah, ya know, but it’s rough out there," Worthy said, hat tugged low and sweat still dripping down his face. "I’m just happy that we were able to go out there and persevere through the adversity."

Worthy was very clear Michigan State does not take pride in personal fouls, but also said it was important the Spartans get inside Robinson's head.

Did Michigan State accomplish that goal? Of course it did, whether it was done cleanly or not. Robinson, who threw well against Minnesota two weeks ago and was coming off a torrid second half last week against Northwestern, never got on track.

He finished 9-of-24 passing for 123 yards, one touchdown and one interception. That's the lowest passing percentage of his career in games he's started.

Even the running game abandoned Robinson. He finished with 18 rushes for just 78 yards -- the lowest total of any game he's started. He averaged just 2.3 yards per carry, and was pummeled getting even that much.

And then there were the quarterback hits, sacks and two roughing the passer calls inflicted by that fearsome Michigan State front, which played as advertised.

Did Worthy see fear in Robinson's eyes?

"Oh yeah, definitely," he said. "He's a competitor, but no one wants to keep getting hit by 300-pound guys."

One of those guys — defensive end Marcus Rush — eventually landed the knock-out blow on a late hit of Robinson, a blow that was inflicted well after the quarterback had released the ball.

Robinson stopped short of calling it a cheap shot, but he also left little to the imagination.

"Did the referees call it?" he said.

Well, yeah, they did. Roughing the passer, 15 yards.

But, just like the other 12 penalties for 109 yards called against the Spartans, the Wolverines could not make them pay.

Michigan State entered the game with the nation's top overall defense, and held an offense averaging 38 points per game to 14. Michigan, whose offense is predicated on its seventh-ranked rushing attack, gained just 82 yards on the ground.

That, in the end, is why Michigan lost this game, dirty or not.

Michigan State was more physical than the Wolverines. It won the battle up front, sometimes handily, and that contributed to Michigan's woes on the ground. In a series decided 39 of the past 42 times by who wins the rushing battle, Michigan left itself little chance by being outgained 213-82 on the ground.

"I think they were definitely more physical," Michigan safety Jordan Kovacs said. "They pounded us. They beat us up."

Things got chippy, as they've been the past five years of this rivalry. The teams didn't even shake hands after the game, as is customary.

"The little brother comments and things like that kinda get to you," Worthy said. "So, you have to go out there and make a statement."

The Spartans did, and it said they remain the more physical team in this rivalry -- and in this rivalry, that means it remains the better team.

That'll stick with Michigan.

“They need to feel this one," Hoke said of his players. "We all need to feel this one for a while. But we’ll turn the page.”

Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.


scott hummel

Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 1:39 a.m.

Okay, let's clear up some confusion...this is football! Personal fouls and unsportsmanlike penalties occur in nearly every game by every team. To sit here and whine that MSU is classless and everyone should be in jail is ridiculous. To all of the Michigan fans who have been complaining about MSU players being dirty and saying that they'd rather lose and play clean - let me remind you of a few instances in the last couple of years. 1. Jonas Mouton - punched a Norte Dame player in the throat (after the whistle had blown) 2. Mark Ortmann - punched an Illinois player in the nuts (after the whistle had blown) 3. Michael Shaw - purposely runs into and shoves a non-player in the tunnel, heading onto the Ohio State Field These 3 instances alone show that Michigan is like EVERY other football program. There's always a little bit of dirt in every game. I absolutely agree that Gholston crossed the line, but he did nothing that other schools haven't done in the past. It wasn't right then and it's not right now...but come on. Get over it. We play exactly the way Michigan has played for years, we are just better right now. Just to prove this point, let me display some stats that show how the game was really won/lost: 50% of Michigan's offensive plays were in MSU territory, resulting in 2 touchdowns, 1 interception and 4 punts Michigan quarterbacks combined for: 12/31 (39%) - 168 yards Michigan running backs combined for: 82 yards on 36 carries - 2.3 yards per carry Michigan defense gave up 213 rushing yards - 5.5 yards per carry Michigan offense had 20 first downs - 6 of which were given to them by MSU penalties Michigan coaches sat Denard Robinson for 8 plays and had him out wide on another 5 plays - 3 of these plays were due to an injury...the others were the decision of your head coach to put one of the best players in the nation on the sideline while an untested qb threw the ball around the field. With that all said - Sparty outplayed you, period.

Nate Parsons

Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 1:30 a.m.

Football is a collusion sport where more times than not dominate, aggressive, hostile behavior is rewarded by victory. Don't hate the palyer hate the game. See you next year little sister!

David Briegel

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.

I'm in complete agreement with Lorain Steelmen, the officials missed half the game and let things get way out of control. The announcers including Chris Spielman were incredulous at the lack of control by the officiating team. Those missed laterals, the missed personal fouls that should have resulted in ejections. We could go on and on repeating many of the previous statements but suffice it to say Enough is Enough! It should definitely be up to the Big 10 to come down with severe sanctions for Dantonio, Narduzzi, Gholston and 44 or this will become the new standard in the Big 10. This was shameful! This has little to do with MSU's victory, they were clearly the better team and deserved to win. But the reality is that it was a literal mugging by an organized bunch of thugs!

Lorain Steelmen

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 6:35 p.m.

Looking at the officiating on saturday was another problem. First, when msu intecepted the pass late, in the fourth quarter, and ran it in, the player taunted DRob, as DRob came over to try to make the play. By rule, the touchdown is to be taken off the board. Earlier, when msu tried a sideways play, that was moving backward, from the line of scrimmage, the receiver dropped the ball. UM (#5) recovered the ball, so it was a recovered fumblel. The refs, should have turned the ball over to UM. So with jurt these two calls, msu got 14 points, on incorreect officiating. As it was, the UM defense played well, and UM STILL had a chance to win the game with about 6 minutes to go, when for some unexplained reason, Borges ordered his QB to run away from the line on a 4th and six inches. To say that msu was the better team, doesn't compute. As I drove home, it dawned on me, that msu will most likely lose its' next two games. UM may still have a chance to win this division.

Lorain Steelmen

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 6:16 p.m.

I predicted on this site, all last week, that the MSU plan would be to knock DRob out of the game. That is exactly what happened. But now, msu is in BIG TROUBLE!!!!!!!! This one is ugly! And they got caught, red handed, on national tv, not once, but several times. Sitting in the upper deck above the UM bench, we were all counting the personal fouls. By half time, we were up to 8 or 9. At 15 yds a crack that is over 100 yeads, just in personal fouls. Clearly it was a predetermined plan by Dantonio and Narduzzi. What we could NOT see, was the blatant attempt to cause personal injury. Watching the dvd of the game sat night, and the delayed BTN replay again sunday night was appalling. Luckily for Robinson, his chin strap, released, so that when Gohlstin, twisted his helmet by the face mask, his neck was not snapped, and he was not killed. But why wasn't Gohlstin ejected at that point? Later when Gohlstin sucker punched Lewan in the throat, I again was surprized, that he wasn't tossed. In every case, Dantonio only complained that the pernalites were called. Late in the game, a Spartan rusher (#44), body slammed DRob to the truf, well AFTER the pass was on its' way, and successfully knocked DR out of the game. But he ALSO returned to the game. Of course, Dantonio was the DC at osu, when osu's LB, Reynolds, choked Wisconsin's QB, Sorge, at Camp Randall in 2004 or5. So there IS a history here for Dantonio. That's why I expected it before the game. The league must decide if it will suspend these thugs, and for how many games. Gohlstin should be out for the balance of his career. Others, should be suspended for a couple of games, IMMEDIATELY! If the league does not step in to protect it's players from life altering or life ending muggings, then coaches will quickly instruct their players to retaliate. Dantonio and Narduzzi must be sanctioned as well.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 5:03 p.m.

jimb. . . the fact that you can't MAN-UP to the fact that one of your player's played DIRTY and you can accept that it's ok to play like that speaks volumes as to what you think is ok! if you watch the replay's you can see what WG did was wrong!! your team won, uofm lost, your team was the better team on both sides of the ball this year. at least acknowledge that what was done on the field was wrong!!! that would speak volumes that you don't agree with this type of play no matter who the player is or what team he is on!!! GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:59 p.m.

I'm so sad to see UofM fans crying so much over a loss. This isn't the UofM fan base I remember. The ...'if this happened' or 'that didn't happen, then we could have won.' ' cheaters, thugs'. Well, news flash, it didn't go your way and you didn't win. Most fan bases don't cry, they save that emotion for next year to fuel their fire. Man up.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.

michigan got beat by the better team no question about that, but what WG did #2, should have called for is ejection from the game by the refs!!! DANDY DANtonio should have benched him and he should be benched for the rest of the season!!! and to sparty, i would be saying the same thing if it was a michigan player!! this type of play is unacceptable!!! GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marcus Ray was Right!

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.

In the end, Marcus Ray was correct in his comments. MSU doesn't matter because they are not Michigan, never have been and can never be. Because that S logo really will always stand for second to Michigan. And from my own personal perspective, it also stands for safety school. So revel in a football victory, of which you did not participate in any way, shape, or form. Live vicariously through others lives, and know that MSU will always be irrelevant to true Michigan men and women, because they are not Michigan.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 1:46 p.m.

The dirtiest play of the game was the punch by William Gholston. He was caught up with emotion, but you still have to control those emotions. Michigan got beat by poor line play and bad play calling. The punch should have gotten him throw out the game. That is a rule. Also, is his late hit and trying to rip the helmet off was childish. You do that at the bottom of the pile not afte the whistle blows. That made it obvious what he was trying to do. I tip my hat to the school in East Lansing. It was a good game and in the end Michigan loss like everyone expected. This is not an upset or anything. It is a loss. I just feel out of all the penalties William Gholston should have been in the lockerroom. The game to me was not dirty but William Gholston is border line dirty.

Ricardo Queso

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:07 p.m.

Hoke is not making excuses but the Walmart Wolverines are vocal. Time to separate the football program from the University and give it the proper name of "Taylor Tech".


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 5:05 a.m.

Whether MSU played dirty or not they were the better team. There was definitely some cheap shots, and they were penalized. But sadly, UM looked soft saturday. Until they can beat teams up front, their going to keep losing to the top B1G teams. Also, i think its time to end the Denard Robinson QB experiment and use the bye week to get Gardner prepared to start and use DRob as a RB/WR. He cant throw, and its not just magically going to change. Getting Gardner playing now, and playing a getting his first start against a weak Purdue team would give him an opportunity to get his feet wet. Not to mention, it will benefit him for next year. Gardner is the better true QB, Drob is the better athlete... its time to adjust their positions accordingly.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 5:07 a.m.

excuse the out of place "playing a".. not sure what happened there...


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 1:27 a.m.

"On Saturday I watched a game in which one team --the Spartans-- had reverted back to the rules of the jungle. This left the Michigan players completely vulnerable because they were obviously playing under a different code of conduct." I'm watching the replay on the Big 10 Network. Suck it up and welcome to the "Jungle." Dix.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:29 p.m.

"Rules of the jungle?" Hmmmm. For a media source who censors all things in this forum negative about Obama, it is funny they allow this blatantly racist comment.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 2:01 a.m.

I'm watching the replay as well. High fiving after injuring a player on a late hit/personal foul. Classless, from the coaches on down.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:23 a.m.

My God put skirts on the M team next year!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 10:56 p.m.

I wonder how much the spartan fans will whine when their players are suspended for Wisconsin game and beyond. I was disgusted. Up until now I cheered MSu when we weren't playing tham. but I hope they lose every game from now on. Yes, MSU won the game but the intentional cheap shots make them the scum of the big ten. D'Antonio, you are dirt.


Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 12:14 a.m.

ChelseaBob most Spartan fans could careless what you think and wish upon the Spartans. I have never rooted for Michigan and never will, I have always hoped they lose every game.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 9:27 p.m.

MSU = Thugs. Dantonio = Thug Master Gholsten = #1 Thug College sports shouldn't be about thuggery. Not surprised but disappointed in MSU - the university, the leadership, the coaches, and the thugs themselves.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:55 p.m.

From Yahoo sports: "That's what we try to do, play 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness," Pat Narduzzi, MSU's fiery defensive coordinator, said. "Any time you get a win over a top 10, top 11 team, whatever they are, or were, it keeps you confident." I think this says it all. MSU's play wasn't undisciplined, it was intentional.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:46 p.m.

Let me say from the outset that MSU has a better team than Michigan this year and should have, and would have, won under any circumstances. We (UM) are just not ready to play with the big boys yet. With that said, I find myself still very upset at what I observed yesterday and at the defenses of MSU's on-field behavior in a surprisingly large proportion of the comments here and elsewhere. It is not being a candy-ass or crybaby to say that this should not be a game about hurting people. There is a certain unspoken ethic in football and other contact sports that players should not try to inflict season- or career-ending injuries on each other. This in part reflects a mutually assured destruction principle at work here: if we try to injure their best players, they're going to do the same to us, and particularly to the guy who inflicted the injury. However, I had thought that it was also true that the norms of restraint and of good sportsmanship had evolved to a point where such "dirty play" had become a rare occurrence. On Saturday I watched a game in which one team --the Spartans-- had reverted back to the rules of the jungle. This left the Michigan players completely vulnerable because they were obviously playing under a different code of conduct. What we saw from the "blue-collar" Spartans was the embodiment of the corporate mentality in action: "Let's screw these guys' eyes out; penalties are just the cost of doing business, and we still profit hugely from our behavior." For those who comment here and elsewhere defending the "dirty play", just think for a moment how you would feel if it was your favorite player, or brother, or son, or you, who was hurt or even crippled by some out of control jerk. Let's all try to remember that living together in a society imposes a responsibility on each one of us to protect each other's safety. We should uphold that principle, and not undermine it, in our public comments about the behaviors


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:45 p.m.

Well said. Among the most disturbing things I've read in the aftermath is their defensive coordinator's comments basically excusing this type of play. At MSU, there is an institutional policy apparently to play dirty, starting at the top of their coaching hierarchy all the way down to the lowest member of their team. It is absolutely shameful. But as long as you beat Michigan.....


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:30 p.m.

All this game proved was Mich is not ready for the big boys. Can you imgaine the outcome if they played Alabama, LSU, or Oklahoma yesterday? The game would have been over by the end of the first quarter.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:14 p.m.

The comments illustrate why we Michigan fans hate MSU fans so much. Honestly speaking, MSU is a crappy football program which has seen a surge recently. I'm a little baffled by all of these MSU football fans. MSU football fans? Seriously? Where did you guys come from? They take their little victories and run for miles with them. They love to rub it in because they've been rubbish for years and have a horrible record vs. Michigan in this rivalry. I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see MSU fans coming here and voting up the pro-MSU comments. Let them have their time in the sun, they're use to being losers in football.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4 p.m.

Michigan State has more talent, depth, and experience than Michigan. Especially on defense. That tide is going to swing back to Michigan in the next few years because Hoke is dominating the recruiting war. So here is my message to Michigan players and coaches. When we get there, and we have the talent to beat them, let's please do it with some class, instead of what I saw on that field yesterday. I normally reach out to my MSU friends after the game, and have done so the last three years, but throwing punches on the field is unacceptable. A coulpe personal fouls throughout the game because of being too amped up are acceptable, but a blatent game plan directed by cheap shots and over the line behavior took sooo much away from the game. It was a discrace to see MSU's linebacker slapping high fives on the sideline after being flagged 15 yards for body slamming denard after the play. So rejoice Sparty. You won the game, but you showed the nation that you are second rate.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.

The offensive line was completely outplayed. As a result Denard was harassed all game long. No QB can pass effectively when the defense is in the backfield that quickly. Defenders flying across the line untouched. Hoke said it himself, he and his staff were out coached and they had to find a way to do a better job of coaching the team. The OL failed to execute, and they needed to execute with near perfection to handle MSU. That said they played to the end and never gave up. MSU outplayed UofM and deserved the win. Just as Hoke and his staff take responsibility for their teams play, Dantonio and his staff must take responsibility for the play of MSU. While they have a lot to be proud of, the deliberate effort to injure Denard after the ball was dead or long gone was not "emotionally charged football". Football is a rough game. Contact and domination is part of it. Putting "shots" on key players is a definite part of the game. Landing on a players head, while he is helplessly pinned under a pile up, and in a second motion grabbing his face mask and twisting it in a deliberate attempt to injure him is NOT. Suppose for a moment that Denard's neck had been broken and he was paralyzed. Game videos would have been seized by the police and at this point charges would be pending. We'd be debating the appropriateness of allowing criminal charges for actions on a college football field. That is not a debate I wish to have. I like the fact that football is a contact sport, but if we want it to stay that way, flagrant actions like this one must be censured by the coaches. Does anyone doubt for a moment that had MSU not indulged in the late hits the game would have ended differently? Obviously MSU would have won that game anyway, whether we like it or not they were the more effective team. Since Dantonio has taken no action, not even to say that his staff is reviewing the video, I can only assume that he approves of these actions. A poor standard by which to coac


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.

The late Al Davis famously said, the other teams quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard. Point to MSU. The recent UnderArmor commercials told you to protect your house. Not so much for the UM offensive line. Let the league and the refs handle anything out of bounds, but so what if they do? Won't help us now, the L is recorded. If it ticked us off enough at the time, we would have made MSU pay for those penalites with scores or stops. We didn't. This blue print for beating Michigan in recent years is not new. Will this staff learn from it? I think so. This team has shown some resiliancy that recent teams did not have. The defense did not play that terrible. They won, they get to talk, we get to either get better or cry about it. The latter is not flattering or befitting of the "leaders and best". Just stop it. Patience young Jedi's, the force will be with us soon.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.

Were Gholston's actions reprehensible? Yes. Did he get caught up in the heat of the moment? Yes. This doesn't justify what he did and he probably should get suspended. And is that why the Mighty Michigan Marshmallows lost? No. And are you Whinerines going to tell me the shoe hasn't been on the other foot? (see Jonas Mouton for one). So cut the holier than thou crap. You've been owned for four years now. What's that taste like?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.

Yesterday, I heard and read a LOT of vitriolic comments from State fans deriding and berating the Michigan fan base, team, and coaching staff. Apparently, most felt that one comment from Mike Hart a few years back was sufficient justification for the barbaric play we all witnessed (except for a few occasions by the officials). What was this horrible comment that drew an imaginary new Mason-Dixon line somewhere between Ann Arbor and East Lansing? He said that MSU was like a "little brother." Imagine that. Saying that he thought of MSU like a member of his own immediate family; someone who can sometimes be annoying and, yes, even a pain, but someone for whom he feels pride and affection, and who will someday step out of his shadow and achieve great things on his own. How dare he say such a thing! Maybe that someday is now. Maybe MSU is a better team, and will be from now on. And maybe U of M will have to just look on with admiration as his "little brother" continues to shine. But maybe U of M is just temporarily under the weather and will return to its former glory in the not-too-distant future. And maybe "little brother" is acting a little too brutish and boorish for its own good. Think about this: as poorly as U of M played, and as dominant as MSU's defense was, this game still hinged on two plays. If Denard Robinson had planted his foot and not gotten intercepted for a pick-six, and if Devin Gardner had released that touchdown pass behind the line of scrimmage, it very easily could have been a tied game. Some brothers grow up beating each other up, and then become the best of friends when they reach the maturity of adulthood. Some never get over the pain, embarassment, and anguish of being in the shadow of a successful sibling. I hope we get past this, but I never expected our "little brother" to turn out to be the high school bully.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:54 p.m.

So much over analysis on this.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.

As patheitic as MSU's extra curricular activity was, the game was still in reach for UM to tie the game in the 4th quarter. So with all the adversity they faced, the spotlight goes directly to the UM coaching staff...not the MSU players and their personal foul penalties. Had UM prevailed, the shine on MSU's attempt to hurt UM players would have been covered extensively on various sport networks. However, UM lost on a gimmick play in which our coach basically handing MSU the game. Perception is lost when you lose hence the reason why Hoke doesn't want to admit MSU played dirty and praised Dantonio for his coaching. UM needs to stay the course and get better....MSU and their fans can keep on gloating for another year but karma is coming again for them just as it did last year.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:37 p.m.

Next year, I recommend the two teams play flag football so no UM players get injured.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.

OH NO. We play good hard hitting football. You better enjoy this because in 5 days Wisconsin is going to protect their players and someone wearing Red is going to take a kneee out of a spartan player the first time there's a late hit. But it wont be Number 2. He will be sitting that game out. Next year msu will face a team that understands how to play vs msu. Now go back to the msu library and read "Dick and Jane".


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:34 p.m.

UM fans are known for their whining but after yesterday, they are taking it to another level.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.

As a Mom, I was mortified by the bullying by MSU. I am a U of M fan and I'll concede that MSU knows how to play football well and are a good team, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME! They could have won without the bullying. Worthy's family should be disappointed with their son as his attitude and "chip on his shoulder" from a comment that was said YEARS ago by someone who is NO LONGER on the team is ridiculous! These are VERY young men that are out on this field playing and those who call U of M players/fans whiners please stop! This is a game, nothing more. But in this day and age of "anti-bullying", perhaps MSU needs a few refresher courses.


Tue, Oct 18, 2011 : 12:10 a.m.

There is no bullying in football. Football by it's nature is a violent game played by violent men in college and the pro level. the players playing in this game are young men and the intent of many of these young men is to physically punish and beat your opponent. You want to outwork, outhit and make your opponent quit, unfortunately sometimes these young men will cross the line trying to achieve these goals. Most of the time these violations are caught and penalized by the officials. Please do not confuse this violent game with schoolyard bullying.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.

Let it go. You lost.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.

State won, enough of luck the rest of the way sparty. I'm not going to make excuses. Big Blue was just plain beat. When they had the momentum they lost it. Denard was completely shut down.... 4th and inches... down a TD and you get tricky. D'OH As for dirty. Naw, state is know for their thugs, I didn't expect anything less. It was a rivalry. The body slam was cheap, the punch was cheap. those two could be suspensions later. the pick six taunt, even the two buckeye doing the game on ESPN said that should have been called back... eh, the game is over....MSU has the trophy. Oh by the way Snoop.....67-31-5. State has a long LONG way to go, and winning 4 more in a row...possible, sure. Improbable though. You do know what 'improbable' means don't you? hehee


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 5:40 p.m.

Is there any video that shows what happened before the punch?

Scott Jones

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:54 p.m.

Let's be objective. Ghoulston's so called "punch" was the result of the Michigan player holding his head down on the ground long after the play had ended. By the way lil sister, you should be justly proud of all the wins Michigan has tallied against Michigan Agricultural College, the State Agricultural of Michigan, etc. For decades Michigan wouldn't even play MSU outside of Ann Arbor. During this time span, UM also beat up on many national powers including Olivet College, Alma College, Albion College to pad its record of the most wins by any college football program.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:44 p.m.

You have to be careful asking for sanctions against players from only one team. The state player did throw a punch and was caught. Taylor Lewan did a face guard pull down in the same play and was not penalized (a dangerous and cheap action). So who gets the suspension? Football is not a nice game and we put compensated gladiators out there for a reason, we like to see them go at it. Man up guys - but remember it is still just a game.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.

Out coached, out coached, out coached. Dantonio out coached borgas, he out coached mattison, and he definitely out coached hoke. I expected this from the rich rod crew, but not from Brady and company. Btw, I have never seen such a dynamic player -Denard - used in such a poor, ineffective way. If you don't want to use his giftedness, put him in the slot and be done with it. Not that I'm irritated or anything.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:26 a.m.

Here's out-coaching for you. The following are the first 2 paragraphs of Joe Rexrode's article in the Lansing State Journal Sunday morning: EAST LANSING - The hits came from every angle, many of them vicious, a few of them late, all of them meant to leave an impression. "That's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness," MSU defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi said. "Just glad it didn't get called every snap."


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:33 p.m.

Disagree. Outmuscled, outmuscled, outmuscled. We got pounded in the trenches on both sides of the ball today and that was the difference in the ball game. Denard was so completely ineffective because our line couldn't block anyone. Until we build those lines through recruiting and strength training, this is what's going to happen against the stronger teams.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.

Is it too late to join the whine fest? Did MSU players play overaggressively? Yes. Did they pay the price? Yes. Michigan benefited from those dumb plays to extend drives on several occasions. I'm guessing at some point in the game UM had more yardage gained from penalties than from offensive execution. Face it. The better team won and without the penalties it probably would have been something more like 35-7. Booyah!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:11 p.m.

Man up!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.

I can understand frustration over losing, but I've never witnessed an entire fan base turn into absolute wimps so quickly. Did Rich Rodriguez recruit you? Face it, you got your butts whipped. Physically pounded. Enough with the crying. Enough with the psychotic trolling about Will Gholston. This is football, not pottery. Your beloved Bo would kick the snot out of you for complaining about anything but getting outmuscled. Anything else is worthless banter.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.

There is outmuscled, which Michigan was yesterday. They were outplayed, out executed, out scored, out everythinged. BUt the dirty play is absolutely not acceptable. Football is a tough game, of course. But ask any football player at any level--intent to injure with purposeful actions is not and should not be tolerated. When the QB throws the ball, he is no longer fair game (NFL and NCAA rule). When the player hits the out of bound line, he is no longer fair game. When the whistle blows, tackling cannot occur (though sometimes momentum will take a player). In fact, OSU won a game against Michigan a few years ago over a much more iffy call, when Shawn Crable was flagged against Troy Smith for helmet to helmet. There is an attempt in the rules to protect the players from injuries above and beyond the normal play. If you don't understand that, then you should study the rules.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 11:29 a.m.



Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 11:20 a.m.

Another quick note, last week an LSU punter showboated into end zone and had TD taken back for excessive/unsportsmanlike conduct. MSU player does similar thing going into end zone today on D-Rob interception and Big Ten crews doesn't flag it. They argued this play on ESPN last week and stated the rule clearly and CBS argued it yesterday after game as well. Michigan still not tough enough at line of scrimmage. You need a passing game to compliment running attack and Denard isn't that guy. He is a special player on the field, but the passing game must improve or 7-5 or 8-4 seems very likely. As for dirty play, a few questionable situations on the field, but rivalry games tend to have a few of these. Remember folks, this is MSU biggest game on their schedule, most Michigan fans would agree it is important, but not Michigan's biggest game. I hope Michigan learns from this experience and works to improve for the big game on Thanksgiving weekend.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 10:31 a.m.

It's like the goofy kid who finally got a date with the hot girl at school. He should act like he's been there before. State acted like they have never been there before. Low class.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 9:38 a.m.

If I were a state fan I would be embarrassed by my team after that game... the personal fouls (including a blatant punch!) are despicable. I hope the NCAA / BIG10 reacts appropriately and punishes the players who committed these disgusting fouls. They not only shamed MSU, they shamed the BIG10.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.

Good for you, Jeff, enjoy it. But any fan of MSU who is proud of defensive effort like this should be ashamed. <a href="" rel='nofollow'></a>


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.

You have no idea how much fun it is for an MSU fan to read these comments.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 7:35 a.m.

I'm sure Mike Hart had no idea how badly his comments would hurt Michigan football!

Rick Williams

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:04 a.m.

Michigan -look towards next yr. Y'all get to kick of the season with ALABAMA


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:59 a.m.

Funny how so many of you Wolverine fans complain about the lack of class by the Spartans today and yet tomorrow I'm sure many of you will be all over Suh's jock . If I'm not mistaken, he plays the same way, and many of you probably love it.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.

No, I HATE it. Watching Suh play dirty (and it is OBVIOUS) is disgraceful and makes me cringe to be a Lions fan sometimes. I agree with every penalty and fine he has received thus far. But he is one person. SEVERAL players on MSU's defense played dirty yesterday, almost smells of an instructed game plan.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:41 a.m.

It's pretty obvious that UM got beaten by a better team. There is no dispute there. However, since Dantonio also failed to control his players -- he should have benched Gholston after he punched the UM player. That sends a message to keep your emotions in control and play football. But he didn't do that. Nor did Dantonio seem to understand why Tressel was fired. So, that tells me all I want to know about his character. Players sometimes do things in the heat of emotion that they should not do, but it was quite apparent that Dantonio chose not to cool off some of the hotheads on his team. Also not mentioned is the fact that when the last interception was run into the end zone, the ball carrier taunted DR in the end zone. According to rules, that should have annuled the TD and put the ball on the 5 yard line. Poor officiating. That didn't cost UM the came, but certainly added insult to injury.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.

Actually, the ball goes back 15 yards from where the incident occurred. So it would have been at the 20. Who knows what happens there (though I will clearly state that Michigan was outplayed, deserved to lose, and probably would not have been able to do anything to alter the outcome). But that is typical of the type of atmosphere that Dantonio has instituted at his place. In isolation, none of these is that big of a deal (though intent to injure should not be taken lightly). But the sum total of all the game's action is really a poor reflection of the Big Ten, the MSU program and speaks volumes about the lack of class that football team has. And also, reflects a continued inferiority complex IMO


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:33 a.m.

Wahhhhhhh. This is so vintage Whinerene. I have a clipping from 2002 or something. It's a humourous prediction of a U of M/Utah game, from the Free Press. It said that when a penalty is called on U of M, the Big Ten had instructed the refs to throw Kleenex, for all the crying. (The writer picked Utah.) AA.Com, you're what passes as journalism in this town now. Can you not pick up your standards just a little bit? My high school paper was more erudite, analytical and objective than this stuff. Pretty much everyone on planet Earth who is not a Wolverine despises Wolverines. How come? They are poor losers, and poor winners. Case in point: Your whiney article. Interesting that MSU has prevailed in four straight in football against U of M, but apparently the &quot;truth&quot; out of Ann Arbor is that they were jobbed by the refs, treated &quot;ditrily&quot;, and maybe U of M played poorly. But for sure, MSU didnt ever really defeat the Whinerenes. Better start working on excuse #5 for next year. You don't want to leave important stuff like that to the last minute. Preparation is everything in sports.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:30 p.m.

AADon--my comments on the fine Wolverine tradition of gloating in wins (&quot;Hey Hey it's great----to be-----a Michigan Wolverine&quot;) and giving no credit to opponents in losses (&quot;Wahhhh--they played dirty!) is only a statement of my experience of about 42 years in this rivalry. I have degrees from both MSU and U of M. That gives me a certain perspective others may lack. I assume you have the same credentials? I have legitimately been in both &quot;home team&quot; sections. I was in the Spartan home section when Charles Woodson impressed me with one of the most athletic plays I've ever seen--his one-handed interception at Spartan Stadium. He got mad props for that. In the same game, MSU's Flozelle Adams was a mess, and was roundly criticized for it. I've also been among Wolverines, in the days when the Spartans could not buy a win. The Blue fans would curse at Ali Haji Sheikh for missing a field goal, because it prevented a 34-point win instead of just a 31-pointer. So based on up close and personal knowledge for over 4 decades, I' ve formed an opinion that MSU fans, perhaps from decades of being down, give credit to the better team on a given day, and issue self-criticism where it's due. Mr. Meinke's article, in my view, is representative of the Wolverine tendency to look for excuses in losses. Notably, the U of M players, who actually took the field, had a different view. From today's Free Press (unlike AA.Com, not a U of M toady publication): &quot;I think they were definitiely more physical&quot; U-M Safety Jordan Kovacs said of MSU. &quot;I think they pounded us, they beat us up....You've got to give them a lot of credit.&quot; I assume, AA Don, that you respect your players opinions? I do. They took the field. I have three D-1 varsity letters (from MSU) and was a head coach there. Again, I asssume you can match those credentials, thus buttressing your credibility? Bottom line, the team that wins the rushing battle wins this gam


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:57 p.m.

&quot;They are poor losers, and poor winners.&quot; Are your comments supposed to be an example of a GOOD winner?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:13 a.m.

Michigan not enough grit? Stupid statement. They were basically outplayed but also mugged. Cheap shots in the form of illegal chop blocks. late hits and face masks tend to take their toll in the trenches and that is why they are not legal. They injure and hurt players and MSU disgraced their program today as it appears they have been coached to think this is how the game is played. They lost whatever little respect and support they may have had. This was the most flagrant example of unsportsmanlike play I have ever witnessed in a college football game. Even Miami's once assembled thugs look like choir angels compared to the sociopaths that Dantonio leads.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:04 p.m.

Chas, I feel ya. Your rage is not going to help resolve this matter though, and is only effective bulletin-board material for MSU fans. Let's let the coaches and ncaa figure this one out, and if they don't, well, feel free to turn off your television.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:03 a.m.

All the those personal fouls helped keep a number of the drives alive for UofM. You should be thankfull some of the MSU players were dumb enough to make those plays. With out them, the points scored could have been even worse.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:01 a.m.

Gohlston must be suspended or the Big 10 Conference is without principle or integrity. This entire State programs bears scrutiny as it appears that coaches are encouraging players to intentionally injure opposing players with cheap shots.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:20 a.m.

Support that what is said here about coaches encouraging such dirty behavior, the following are the first 2 paragraphs of Joe Rexrode's article in the Lansing State Journal Sunday morning: EAST LANSING - The hits came from every angle, many of them vicious, a few of them late, all of them meant to leave an impression. &quot;That's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness,&quot; MSU defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi said. &quot;Just glad it didn't get called every snap.&quot;


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:23 p.m.

Wind and skirts are not a good combination.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:49 a.m.

If no suspensions are handed out to Gohlsten and company I believe Michigan should change their game plan to cheap shots on any player they believe to be critical to their opponent's performance in order to neutralize them, injure them and get them on the bench. I don't mean the 300 lb gorilla in front of you. I mean their quarterback, running backs and wide receivers. When there down on the ground, pile on with a head shot and rip their face mask to the sky. After the QB releases the ball, let their arms hang down and when they least expect it, hit them in the mouth. When their receivers block you, punch them where it hurts. Chop block their defensive line till their knees implode. It's only rough football and it's to be expected. Just win, no style points here.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:55 a.m.

So your saying MSU played a dirty game (not that I agree) and UofM should do the same? Based on your point of view wouldn't that be lowering your standards? Do you know how stupid your post sounds?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:36 a.m.

Hoke must complain to the Big 10 office about the Gohlsten face mask mugging of Denard Robinson. Failure to do so would signal that he doesn't care if his QB is intentionally injured by this type of foul and leave Denard exposed to future attacks.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:20 a.m.

I'll second everything heartbreakM said about MSU's DESPICABLE play and go further. Contradicting only: I think Michigan's O-line gets all of the blame for today's loss. The offensive line failed utterly to protect Denard and open running lanes for No.16 and the other RBs. Denard was therefore unable to find his groove, something we've all known to be his major problem. Denard is like any QB in that none of them, even the best of the Best can succeed without an effective O-line. I say the forbidden: I think Borges has done all he can with his offense up to this point. What we're seeing and why we're seeing it (again) is an inadequately talented O-line. The only qualification to this terrible statement I make is that MSU's defense is at the top and Michigan's O-line could not have done more than &quot;average&quot; against that. But they didn't do average: they did terrible. I see how this came about: the defense was the greatest deficit and Hoke (and Mattison) have done their best with that priority. They DID stop MSU repeatedly and DID provide opportunities for the offense: which then threw them away one after another. Terrible Statement #2: for the first time since his hiring, I disagree with Hoke about &quot;brushing aside&quot; MSU's foul play. Personal fouls are dangerous to the victims: Michigan might have lost Denard for the season to them. If Denard HAD been seriously injured: what would Hoke and the sports writers be saying NOW?? I urge Coach Hoke and EVERYONE to raise this issue to the forefront. This is not only a disgrace for Mark Dantonio, it's a clear and present threat to every player who faces Dantonio's (sanctioned!) thugs. Hoke talks about responsibility: well, he's also said he's responsible for the safety of his players. What does he mean?? I want the NCAA and the Big 10 to ACT against MSU! How do you say?


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:48 p.m.

Why is there always an excuse for losing a football game here? It's over, live with it and use it to fuel next year. Quit crying.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:58 a.m.

Your failure to report the flagrant attempt by Gohlsten to snap Denard Robinson's neck casts doubt on any journalism going on here. MSU outplayed MIchigan and deserved to win. They also played a disgraceful and dangerous game. If this doesn't get coverage you have lost all respect and don't deserve to even think you are a reporter.

mike gatti

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:49 a.m.

Dirty play? No. Emotional play? Yes. There were some personal fouls today. They were called and yardage was assessed as a form of punishment. I think MSU wanted to make sure that DRob wouldn't beat them. I also think that it is pretty hard to have it both ways. DRob is not going to go down without a fight. He is a great runner who will fight and wiggle and fake and spin until he is on the ground. That characteristic that makes him great is also going to make people want to tackle him and do it convincingly. This game is played by human beings. Human beings have emotions. Second, you can't say that since he passed great against Minnesota and Northwestern then why not against State? You don't just insert opponent here. Minnesota is terrible. Northwestern's D is not State's D. You need to give the opponent credit. Not once in this piece did I see Michigan got beat. It just says they lost. That is the fact that has to be faced. U of M does not just lose games, sometimes even U of M gets beat. That is a reality that the faithful are unwilling to accept and that is why there is always must be a villan (Rich Rod, Refs, MSU hooligans, Charles White, etc.).


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:33 a.m.

We got beat by the better team. Our guys played hard today but good coaching can only take a team so far. Hopefully, Denard &amp; Devin will get better at reading defenses as there were guys open multiple times during the game. Help is on the way as Michigan recruits the players it needs to play a more physical yet speedy brand of football.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:25 a.m.

Let' see...the Whiney WalMarters Contingent's* Tally: &quot;State played Dirty&quot; --- check. &quot;Refs gave the game to State&quot; --- check. &quot;Nonexistent governing body of NCAA will look into this and suspend State players&quot;. --- check. &quot;We're rebuilding from the Richrod Debacle therefore even though this UM team was undefeated and ranked 11, this was not the &quot;real&quot; Michigan team, so just you wait&quot; --- check. Somethings never change. Love it! Go Green. Go White. * I specify Walmarters, because real Wolverines don't use these tired excuses.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 5:17 a.m.

Nice, trublu giving the classic &quot;you beat us when we weren't as good&quot; line. News flash, THAT IS THE POINT! You aren't as good, MSU is better, that's what beating a team is all about. I don't walk around saying &quot;it doesn't really count when Michigan beat MSU so much between 2000 and 2006 because MSU wasn't really good and we were stuck with lousy coaches&quot;. I just sounds ridiculous.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:03 a.m.

Reminder: Dantonio's buddy Tressel had to forfeit his entire season... THEN HE GOT FIRED. Still think Michigan's legitimate charges won't have the same effect on Dirty Dan? MSU has had 2 &quot;streaks&quot; against Michigan, both came during times when Michigan was struggling to get past 6-wins a season. If you or any other MSU clown think you can get past that, you're mistaken. See, there are schools with credibility and they count, MSU doesn't.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:24 a.m.

MSU is dirty ,but their slimy antics will supply Michigan with next years motivational ammo. Party hard sparty your short rein will soon end.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.

The three past years or recruiting. This year's recruiting will have little effect next year, perhaps some the year after. Put down the chardonnay and think a little.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 10:27 a.m.

check again we're winning the recruiting war.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:08 a.m.

quit dreaming, the distance between those two teams was huge. UM played scared. I dont see them making such a huge leap as to beat sparty next year either. They are just not tough enough. Chalk it up to 3 years of recruiting lightweights.

Steven Taylor

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:11 a.m.

I'd recommend UofM fans visit Wholefoods or Traders Joes to pick up some organic cheese to with the whine.. Stop being all butt-hurt about being handed another loss from an ACTUAL football team and not some junior varsity warm up squad.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:53 a.m.

Very emotional game. MSU played like champions and Michigan did not. Let stop the wining and excuses towards MSU. Spartans won fair and square. They have an awesome defense and are well coached. Congratulations MSU


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:41 a.m.

Based on most of the comments I guess maybe you were hoping for a chess match. Maybe next year we can set up a game of flag football. We will try not to pull the flag out too hard, and make you cry. Sorry for being too tough on you. We were just trying to be nice and keep you in the game. Nice call on 4th down. Maybe Hoke should have put down the hot dog he was eating and put on the head set to help make the call. At least you got the OSU beatdown to look forward to, when half of Ohio takes over your stadium, and laughs at your fan base crying about the other team hitting you too hard.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:07 p.m.

Rumor has it if you go up to Spartan Stadium and stand over the spot where Marcus Rush tossed DRob around like a rag doll, the dent in the ground is in the shape of the Heisman pose.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:54 p.m.

I seem to recall UofM fans tearing up property after a college game. Not the same as burning a dirty couch.

David Briegel

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:48 a.m.

Go burn a couch!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:30 a.m.

Here's what I don't understand about all this dirty play crap from Michigan fans. Every foul was flagged and MSU was penalized for them. Over 100 yards of penalties and MSU still won. How about Michigan explain why you couldn't capitalize on those penalties. Sitting on here and crying about how MSU played dirty will not justify the terrible play by the Michigan players. MSU was bigger, stronger, and better. Stop with the excuses and take the &quot;L&quot; and live with it. &quot;Leaders and the Best&quot; - Leaders accept their defeat and rise from it. Come on Michigan fans.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.

Intentionally trying to break someones neck while they are held down under a pile of people is NOT football. It is despicable and he needs to be suspended for the rest of the season. If you didn't see this, watch again and tell me how play like this is EVER supposed to be part of the game. <a href="" rel='nofollow'></a>


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:10 a.m.

I agree - you didnt hear the players or the coaches crying foul. And do you know why? because they know football is rough and dirty. And they knew the fouls didnt matter - they got beat fair and square. Its football fergodsakes.

David Briegel

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:48 a.m.

Shame on you for equating 15 yds as just for attempting to break the neck of an opponent. I'm happy no Mich player committed such an offense and I hope the league will show some courage if the Thug in Charge Dantonio doesn't!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:30 a.m.

MSU deserved to win today. They made the big plays when they needed to. However play was something more than dirty. Video clearly shows that Gohlston intentionally snapped the neck via face mask after piling on to a defenseless Denard Robinson. Combined with additional late hits on Denard there is no doubt that they were coached to injure the Michigan quarterback and they carried out the coaching flagrantly. Suspensions must occur....cripe Worthy admits it post=game too!


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:03 a.m.

The following are the first 2 paragraphs of Joe Rexrode's article in the Lansing State Journal this morning: EAST LANSING - The hits came from every angle, many of them vicious, a few of them late, all of them meant to leave an impression. &quot;That's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness,&quot; MSU defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi said. &quot;Just glad it didn't get called every snap.&quot; Nuf said ! !


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:20 a.m.

Big 10 better suspend Gohlsten or this conference is headed for hell.

Joe Minock

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 5:17 a.m.

Chas, I think you can stop trolling this whole comment chain. No one disagrees, with you that Gholston needs to get suspended. The specific play in question was beyond flagrant and he should serve a multiple game suspension. But outside of what he got away with.. (until the Big10 steps in), it was a pretty straight forward game.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:51 a.m.

That is up to the Big Ten, if they do not suspend Gohlston that kind of dirty play will be a fad and soon everyone will be doing that.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:58 a.m.

I thought Denard played a very poor game. Michigan needs a qb who can throw the ball and a power running game to get tough yards.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.

I dont know if Taylor Lewan got injured early or what, but he let guys blow right by him to Denard repeatedly. Pretty shoddy stuff.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 4:12 a.m.

Denard played very poorly... BECAUSE: the offensive line was a complete FAIL. No quarterback alive or dead has ever been effective without an effective O-line. DonAZ is right: The RR Deficit is real and it has been openly acknowledged that it will take more than this season to complete repairs.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:52 a.m.

The QB when checked makes the offense one dimensional. There should be both a passing game and running game at the same time.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:17 a.m.

In short, look at Wisconsin -- that's the future of Big 10 football. Big, strong line play and fast, athletic skill positions. The WCiMFH's design of 140lb scat-backs and no attention to defense whatsoever never panned out in the Big 10. The effects linger.

Joe Minock

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:35 a.m.

Getting away from the Dirty Comments, I think U of M showed some great improvements today. Their defensive line, which could have previously been compared to a leaky drain, absolutely man handled the MSU offensive line. The U of M offense, came right out and executed many excellent plays... and we saw the Robinson / Gardner backfield evolve a lot. While U of M didn't win, I saw dramatic improvements over even last weeks play. Brady Hoke is the right man for the job, and under his leadership... this rivalry is gonna get close and there are going to be some outright wars in the next few years, starting with next year.

Joe Minock

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:24 a.m.

I've long been a fan of both the University of Michigan, and the Michigan State University football programs. For many years, U of M was the prevalent team and went so far to call MSU it's Little Brother. Now, the tides have changed and MSU has won the last four meetings and done nothing but play football. It's a rough game, and there are actions by all that can be proclaimed dirty, but if you're going to point a finger, you cant have blood on your hands, too. After watching the same game today, that everyone else here did, I saw things from both teams that were not shining examples of clean play, but, this is the biggest rivalry in the state. When you bring two teams together with such emotion, it's gonna get rough. I'm certainly not turning a blind eye to what a few MSU players did, but I'll also acknowledge fully that U of M was in no way innocent. Lets be very real here. This is the game of football, and its rough. Emotions are high, and a years worth of respect and bragging rights was on the line. Who wins or loses comes down to execution, and both teams executed many things well today. One team just executed better. In the end, Michigan State University out played and certainly out defended the University of Michigan. And until you're on the field, playing the game, keep your tongue about one team or the other playing dirty. Leave those claims to the coaches and players, as they are the only ones with the right to make such statements.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 5:30 p.m.

okay, chas, we get it. or are you going to post the same reply on every comment?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.

Goober, apparently you were on a beer run when this play happened. <a href="" rel='nofollow'></a>


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : noon

Interesting how baseless claims can be made by some about one player trying to deliberately hurt another, but when another disagrees, threats are made. Truly classless. Let's face it. Football can be a brutal sport. Refs can make bad calls. Shall we start college chess matches instead?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:39 a.m.

No excuse for intent to injure period. The worst example of it I have ever seen,


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:21 a.m.

Ridiculous post. Gohlston tried to intentionally break Denard Robinson's neck.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:17 a.m.

Joe--your point is made, but let's be VERY real here. THe health of these athletes (amateur, students) is at risk by play of this sort. Today, it was not an isolated incident, but rather occurred over and over and over (six times plus). Why do we not see such play against OSU? Or against Wisconsin who is certainly physical? Today's play was not just football tough, but careless, no-rules except for maybe rugby rules football. It could have gotten a player seriously injured. These players need to be coached to not do it. Why do professional football and hockey police it better than the NCAA? My complaints are not about execution or toughness. The MSU lines were much better than UM's lines. My complaints center around play that can injure and outside of the rules. Repeatedly.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:16 a.m.

As a Spartan fan I am disappointed in the number of persoanl fouls called against MSU today (they certainly kept Michigan in the game), but that's what happens in a rivalry game. Do I believe the Spartan defense is dirty? Absolutely not. If there had been a sustained history of similar infractions over multiple games then I guess someone could make that argument. But since it was really evident in this game alone, I simply attribute it to an emotionally charged game. Quite frankly, if the Michigan defense could have penetrated the Michigan State offensive line and gotten closer to Cousins, you would have seen similar flagrant fouls against the Wolverines. No doubt in mind. However the MSU o-line played pretty well today and protected Cousins much better than Robinson was protected. Michigan couldn't get close enough to Cousins to even attempt a late hit. Michigan got just as dirty in the trenches as Michigan State. Don't kid yourself. It was a very physical game - Michigan State was just more physical than Michigan.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.

Excuses are for losers. U of M was beat fair and square. No one intentionally tried to 'kill' the team. The Spartan Program is at a different level right now than U of M and it shows. There were penalties called that could have gone either way, let's be honest about that one.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.

You are in denial. Clear evidence of intent to seriously injure the opposing quarterback with late hits and a flagrant attempt to break his neck. How can you excuse this?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:51 p.m.

The lack of physical response is why Michigan lost, sure, but MSU played dirty, no doubt about it. They were intentionally trying to injure Denard. <a href="" rel='nofollow'></a>


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:22 a.m.

Ridiculous post. Gohlston intentionally tried to break Denard Robinson's neck.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:34 a.m.

Hate to say it, but as a Michigan fan I agree with you. Hoke is working his tail off to make this team tougher, but they're just not there yet.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:14 a.m.

I don't think MSU played dirty. I saw a game where the refs did everything they could to keep UM in the game. MSU was tougher and much more agressive. UM has a history of shooting their mouth off. Just ask Mike Hart. You talk enough trash you better be able to back it up or you will get punched right in the mouth. Today UM was shooting their mouth off and they got punched. Um is not a tough smash mouth team. MSU is.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.

Goober needs glasses. There appears to be no limit to his myopia to all things Michigan related. Coach Hoke will work to made this team competitive for the rest of the season and beyond. It's the beyond that should concern 250, goober, goofus, et al. The world will right itself. TiM Go Blue!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.

I did not see any player from any team try to deliberately hurt another. I did see a hard fought game played along the same lines as the pros. Any claim of one trying to be deliberate in hurting another is baseless. In the pros, if you wear your hair outside of the helmut, it is fair game to be grabbed and used to bring down the other player.

David Briegel

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:41 a.m.

gohlston is guilty of a criminal assault and should be prosecuted!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.

Gohlston tried to intentionally break Denard Robinson's neck. Video evidence. Guilty.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:15 a.m.

@azwolverine... rightmind is confusing fans with the football team. He hears fans talk smack and thinks they are speaking for the team. Please excuse his confusion.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:32 a.m.

I agree that currently MSU is tougher than UM. That's due to 3 years of poor recruiting and wuss ball played by our previous &quot;coach.&quot; Hoke is working on fixing that through both recruiting and making the current players bigger and stronger. We're obviously not there yet, but they will be eventually. As for shooting their mouths off...who on the UM team shot their mouth off? I didn't hear anything about anyone saying anything. But, it is what it is. MSU is currently better...and that's why Hoke was hired to fix that problem.

Will Warner

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:12 a.m.

From my perspective (row 17, 40-yard-line, behind the MSU bench) the most important factor of the game was the Spartan blitz leading to many sacks for long losses, an un-called intentional grounding, and a completely disrupted UM passing game. Nothing says &quot;I'm going to beat you&quot; like a relentless and overpowering blitz.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:11 a.m.

I give the refs credit for the 13 flags angainst MSU, just think how many more penalties they would have had if this game were played in Ann Arbor. I am glad to see the word dirty used in the headline of this artcle. Yes, Michigan was beaten by a better team. Nobody believed Brady Hoke's comments in the previous six that his team had a long way to go. Now we know what he meant. The bye week will serve us well, fans and players. Al Borgess called his worst game of season. Let's they all learn some things they can correct for the remainder of the season. Sparty has to play Wisconsin, they are not home free just yet.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 12:17 p.m.

Goober is as goober does. He likes to spend his time tilting at windmills in AA. Too bad for msu it is. Hahahahahah


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:07 a.m.

That's Goober's point, AZW. He doesn't seem to acknowledge the possibility that it could happen.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:27 a.m.

No, it's not too bad. It actually helps our cause in trying to win this division because Wisconsin is a freakin' monster.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:15 a.m.

Too bad UofM is not playing Wisconsin.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:11 a.m.

The national and non-Ann Arbor based media, such as the Every Sport Played Network, the two local papers in Detroit, and Big Ten Network....after nary mentioned &quot;dirty&quot; play or &quot;criminal behavior&quot;. Must be an Ann Arbor and WalMart thing...State's D musta got in y'all's heads too. /.fear.factor.\


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:05 a.m.

False. Come back down to reality, Goofus. <a href="" rel='nofollow'></a>


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:09 a.m.

MSU played dirty today but the way that UM played are not getting any sympathy from me. UM players were just cannot play against tough opponent. Maybe not really. Let's see whether they learnt some lesson today and beat their next big rival, OSU. If they do so, I have no doubt they can beat OSU else it is another painful experience to go through again.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:46 p.m.



Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:08 a.m.

Suspensions will be handed out. Gohlsten may lose a season.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.

Whoa are you, the president of the NCAA?

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : noon

Goober, I seriouly doubt you ever sat in Michigan Stadium. Why? You appear to hate ALL things Michigan. You &quot;seem to remember&quot;? Can't you recall? Maybe you were in Spartan Stadium since you don't &quot;seem to remember&quot;! Things like that level of unsportsmanlike conduct, condoned by the coaching staff have a way of coming back to bite you. Be very aware that from now on BT officials will be dropping flags on msu so fast it will cost you two Ws for our one L. Every coaching staff will be out to protect their players at msu cost. When some Wisconsin road grader O-lineman takes out some spartan players knee, don't say a word.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:50 p.m.

gholston probably deserves to sit a game but so does Lewan. prior to the punch he was gouging at will's eyes


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 10:31 a.m.

I seem to recall sitting in the UofM stadium, hearing the UofM students chant a nasty name at the Wisconsin team and players. This is truly classless.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:03 a.m.

@motorcitysportstalk -- Everybody who cares about the integrity of NCAA football. Playing hard with class and while displaying sportsmanship is a value all big-time college athletes still need to adhere to. Did you see what he did? What is your excuse for sticking up for it?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:05 a.m.

@Motor: Not the classless sparty fans, of course.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:20 a.m.

MSU losing a player will not get you a W or justify why Michigan lost. Who cares if he's done for the season.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:04 a.m.

Walmart Nation has outdone itself with the whining about dirty play , aka &quot;this year's excuse&quot;. Was this, ahem, &quot;opinion&quot; piece masqurading as a headline, prepared in advance? For 3 years it was Richrod, now it's that State is criminal enterprise. LOVE IT! Go Green, Go White.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:49 p.m.

And now all you sore losers can do is resort to name calling and make bogus accusations, I just love it. Go Green Go White

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 11:50 a.m.

Go Green Go White, We Cheat We Fight, Can't read Can't write. Bogus accusations? Your DC said he wanted &quot;60 minutes of unnecessary roughness.&quot; Bogus Bro, you must still be living inthe 80's, Dude.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:59 a.m.

We might all find out, Goober... Let's watch the rest of the season.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:11 a.m.

Too bad UofM does not play Wisconsin. How do you think this would end up?


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:04 a.m.

You have to play Wisconsin...let's see how that goes.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:47 p.m.

Even though they are called an 'ag school' by UofM students, the MSU football program rocks.

Jimmy McNulty

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.

Goober, once again it is not an insult to be know as an &quot;Ag&quot; school. If you asked students who are ignorant of the agrarian history of Land Grant schools, then educate them. Yes, there is a turfgrass curriculum. To whom do you think the golf courses consult, employ, and otherwise pay big bucks?

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 11:42 a.m.

Goober you need to stick with community problems like police during Michigan home games and parking problems. You sound like a bitter anti-Blue person trapped in Ann Arbor and don't like it. Why would you &quot;ask&quot; several students questions about msu? Was the numbers enough to be meaningful? Were the students sober, were you? Was this a study or ad hoc? Did you ask these &quot;students&quot; before the msu player tried to break DRob neck or after he threw a punch at an offensive linemen or after? Goober having access to a public forum isn't the same as adding something to the public discussion. TiM Go Blue!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 9:41 p.m.

My example was proven by a comment made by the ghost on another article about this game. The ghost referred to MSU, as M-S-Mooooooooo. Poor player ethics on the part of MSU does not excuse the insults from UofM fans, students, alumni, etc.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 6:26 p.m.

If you want to learn how to milk cows!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 11:33 a.m.

Not true. I asked several of the students why they call them an ag school, both said that they only teach about grass and growing corn - not a true college.

Jimmy McNulty

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 10:41 a.m.

Goober, they are an Ag school, as is Penn State. There's no insult in that, and none should be taken by MSU.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:45 p.m.

Dirty play did not cause Michigan to lose. Better teamwork, better line play, and better fundamentals won the game for MSU (except for catching passese). Dirty play however shamed the Spartans and diminished the victory. When it comes to rivalries, play hard but play clean. That's the signature of most UM-OSU games and you see few penalties in those games. But MSU today played out of control with some intents to injure Michigan players. I don't care what your emotion is--you do NOT try to injure the opponent. You play under control within the rules, but respect the opponent. You want to play the same way you want them to play against you. There's hard play, but then there's dirty play and MSU crossed that line consistently. That late hit out of bounds may have injured a knee, as the offensive player clearly slowed up but was hit by a defender going full speed from the side. The twisting of the facemask? Horrible. The twirling around of DR and ultimately throwing him to the ground (??concussion??)--horrible. And Dantonio did NOTHING about this. I think it is reflective of his coaching style which is shameful--&quot;do anything to beat Michigan, legal or not&quot; (sort of like Tressel ball, his hero). This is not the kind of football I want my team to play nor do I want to watch it. The Big Ten hopefully will react appropriately and discipline these players if not the coach.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 11:32 a.m.

rightmind250 It's always a pleasure to read your posts. Entertaining, filled with insight and facts. Michigan came to play and fight a football game. Your team came to injure and play after the whistle. Enjoy the &quot;win&quot;, your day is coming. Now you can go back to shoveling the crap out of the barn. moooo moooo.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:37 a.m.

Joe: You are right. Twirling of DR is called a tackle, if the QB still has the ball. After the ball is released however, it is called &quot;Personal foul, flagrant foul, roughing the quarterback, attempt to injure&quot; and I call it &quot;dirty play&quot;. Especially after a littany of similar plays throughout the game. Most of all, I call it shameful.

Joe Minock

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:28 a.m.

The late hit out of bounds, while unwarranted, is no where near as bad as you describe it. The twisting of the face mask should result in a suspension without question, and the &quot;twirling&quot; of DR is called a tackle- they do that in football.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:22 a.m.

Man you sound like your ready to play Hoke ball. Take the skirt off alice. This is the B10. If UM wants to play with the big boys, they need to come ready for a fight. Obviously they are not equipped, nor are you.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:43 p.m.

Dirty, clean...doesn't matter. MSU is stronger and more physical than Michigan and, until that changes through continued strength training and recruiting, they will be better than us. On the positive side, Wellman is a great strength coach who excels at turning smaller guys into NFL caliber players, and if Michigan's recruiting class holds together, Hoke will begin to build with the type of players that he needs to go toe-to-toe with the heavyweights of the conference. In the meantime, this team will continue to give their all to win as many games as they possibly can during this rebuilding process.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 11:26 a.m.

AZ I have to disagree with you on &quot;doesn't matter&quot;. Obtainng wealth by stealing is not success and winning by &quot;60 minutes of unnecessary roughness&quot; with the intent to seriously injure a player to win a football is not being the BETTER team. The coaches that promoted this type of gamesmanship will now find it hard to dial the players back down. They have made a mob of thugs and it will cost them down the line. Officials will be quick to toss any msu players suspected of &quot;unnecessary roughness&quot; on the spot. Coach Hoke and company will use this as a teaching tool and move forward. msu wont be as fortunate. TiM Go Blue!


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:06 a.m.

You miss the point. MSU intentionally injured the Michigan QB with late hits and benefited from his absence in the game. Their coaching staff was willing to absorb the flags in order to eliminate DR. The evidence of intentional efforts to injure is without dispute and Worthy's comments only reinforce it. What if Michigan has developed a game plan of late hits and snapped necks on Cousins, who was hobbled for more than three quarters or sitting on the bench. You'd be screaming bloody murder and that's exactly what occurred here. Victory yes. also a disgrace.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:09 a.m.

Just saw the video. Clearly flagrant. Should be permanently suspended.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 1:25 a.m.

Gohlston intentionally tried to break Denard Robinson's neck. Must suspend.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.

Totally agree with you about the recruiting. Hoke, in his first season, assembled one of the best recruiting classes in the nation this year. Are we forgetting just how horrible Rich Rod's recruiting classes were? No disrespect to anyone from Saline or Adrian, but we recruited their high school players, that's how horrible it was for us. I wouldn't say MSU is stronger, but they certainly played harder and better. Brady Hoke is basically trying to turn a McDonalds burger patty into a delicious steak dinner.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:43 p.m.

&quot;The little brother comments and things like that kinda get to you,&quot; Worthy said. &quot;So, you have to go out there and make a statement.&quot; With personal fouls and obvious attempts to injure opposing players after the whistle? What a bunch of classless miscreants. I don't mind losing to a better team, but part of being better is playing with some class. Little brother proved once again that they have none and are proud of it. What a bunch of hacks, including the fans bragging about their dirty play.


Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 3:22 p.m.

&quot;I don't mind losing to a better team&quot;. Were you playing Saturday? What position? Are you a coach? Oh, I get it it. You are the typical UM fan who never played football and wraps their whole being around the fortunes of the football team.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:03 a.m.

The &quot;Little Brother&quot; moniker isn't just about wins and losses; it's also how you play the game. And Sparty showed today why that name has stuck. Yep, you won. And you showed a national audience your lack of integrity.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 12:11 a.m.

They won the battle, but have lost the war. They have revealed their lack of character.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:37 p.m.

&quot;EAST LANSING -- Jerel Worthy said what Michigan players wouldn't. This game was dirty.&quot; WAH WAH WAH, what a bunch of crybabies ! What some of you call Big Brother is acting more like Little &quot;crybaby&quot; Sister. 4 in a row for MSU and I look forward to the next four as well. Good Day

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 17, 2011 : 11:13 a.m.

Next four in a row. No chance. By the way good luck next week without your dirty player(s) and DC. &quot;60 minutes of unnecessary roughness&quot; followed by two weeks of sitting on his living room couch on Saturdays. You just traded one win for two loses. Typical moo-u accounting. Michigan will be seeing you again.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 9:20 p.m.

Not even magnanimous in victory, are we?


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:52 p.m.

So do we, because we're winning the next 4, especially once Hoke gets rid of these weak, undersized RR players and finds a pro-style QB.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:47 p.m.

Wolverine players WEREN'T complaining it was dirty.. this makes them Cry Babies how?


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:31 p.m.

Dirty yes, but if Michigan State had played by the Marquess of Queensberry's rules Michigan still would have lost. I've seldom seen a worse team than Michigan's today.

David Briegel

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 2:32 a.m.

MSU deserved to win but they were thuggish and need to be further sanctioned by the BIG 10. Deliberate attempt to injure and fisticuffs are not to be condoned, even by MSU!!


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:37 p.m.

Seldom seen a worse team than Michigan's today? Did you just wake up after a four year sleep?


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:31 p.m.

You fail to mention the first half late hit penalty by Gohlston on a defenseless Robinson with his attempt to snap his neck with the face mask. This was not only worthy of a suspension but borders on criminal behavior. Quit soft pedaling the MSU game-plan to injure the Michigan quarterback.

Smart Logic

Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:49 p.m.

Did you forget your tin foil hat today?


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:40 p.m.

Gohlston should have been ejected and the B1G should, if MSU doesn't, suspend him from next weeks game. Furthermore, the B1G should, at the very least, publicly reprimand Coach Dantonio for promoting and condoning such behavior.


Sat, Oct 15, 2011 : 11:22 p.m.

In this rivalry, you should expect a reasonable amount of &quot;dirty&quot; play. All of MSU's dirtiness was offset by the huge amount of penalties they suffered for some of their griminess. Michigan was given a lot of opportunities, but unfortunately, Denard Robinson couldn't pass if he was driving on the left side of the street.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.

The following are the first 2 paragraphs of Joe Rexrode's article in the Lansing State Journal this morning: EAST LANSING - The hits came from every angle, many of them vicious, a few of them late, all of them meant to leave an impression. &quot;That's what we tried to do, 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness,&quot; MSU defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi said. &quot;Just glad it didn't get called every snap.&quot; Nuf said ! !


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:41 a.m.

Hard to pass when you are hurting from a series of cheap shots. If Cousins had been intentionally roughed up like Robinson believe me the game would have changed.


Sun, Oct 16, 2011 : 3:10 a.m.

This was not reasonable this was a disgraceful exhibition of intent to injure a defenseless player.