SeaEagle

Mon, Nov 29, 2010 : 11:04 p.m.

Yeah, nice post. It made me go check out the stats section on Rivals.com - good stuff. Interesting to note that since Rivals.com started publishing recruiting rankings in 2002, Michigan's lowest recruiting rating with Carr was 17th and they averaged 11th over the 6 years tracked. This year they were ranked 20th and so far they're ranked 27th for the 2011 class. Maybe Mo has something when he says high school kids aren't choosing Michigan anymore - it's just that he got the timeframe wrong. It's also interesting looking at the NFL draft for Michigan. Historically, 2008 was not an especially abnormal year for them. They lost 6 players in the draft. They lost 6 (or more) players to the draft in 2007, 2003, and 2000. And if you narrow it to just the first 2 rounds of the draft (because I can hear people shouting "But they lost so much TALENT in 2007!!") then they lost at least as many players in 2007, 2005, 2002, and 2000.

bossfan23

Mon, Nov 29, 2010 : 8:44 p.m.

Joe Smithers, great post! Excellent research. If you are a Tiger fan, you are welcome to join us on the MLB Tiger site. There is always room for another person that does their homework so well!

Joe Smithers

Mon, Nov 29, 2010 : 2:34 p.m.

All this talk about Harbaugh v. Rodriguez made me wonder... Year 0 Stanford (2006, Coach Walt Harris): 1-11, 1-8 in conference Points For: 127 (57 in conference) Points Against: 367 (274 in conference) 2006 Recruiting Ranking (Rivals.com): Unranked 2007 NFL Draft Picks: 3 Jim Harbaugh (2006): I-AA University of San Diego, 11-1, shared Pioneer League Football Championship Michigan (2007, Coach Lloyd Carr): 9-4, 6-2 in conference Points For: 354 (203 in conference) Points Against: 251 (148 in conference) 2007 Recruiting Ranking (Rivals.com): 12 2008 NFL Draft Picks: 6 Rich Rodriguez (2007): West Virginia, 11-2, defeated #3 Oklahoma in Fiesta Bowl Year 1 Stanford (2007, Jim Harbaugh): 4-8, 3-6 in conference Record against Top 25: 1-3 (beat #2 USC) Result against Rival: Win (unranked Cal) Points For: 235 (148 in conference) Points Against: 339 (280 in conference) 2007 Recruiting Ranking: Unranked 2008 NFL Draft Picks: 0 Michigan (2008, Rich Rodriguez): 3-9, 2-6 in conference Record against Top 25: 1-2 (beat #8 Wisconsin) Result against Rivals: 0-2 (#10 OSU, unranked MSU) Points For: 243 (154 in conference) Points Against: 347 (268 in conference) 2008 Recruiting Ranking: 10 2009 NFL Draft Picks: 2 Year 2 Stanford (2008, Jim Harbaugh): 5-7, 4-5 in conference Record against Top 25: 0-3 Result against Rival: Loss (unranked Cal) Points For: 315 (257 in conference) Points Against: 329 (260 in conference) 2008 Recruiting Ranking: 50 2009 NFL Draft Picks: 0 Michigan (2009, Rich Rodriguez): 5-7, 1-7 in conference Record against Top 25: 1-4 (beat #18 Notre Dame) Result against Rivals: 0-2 (#8 OSU, #20 MSU) Points For: 354 (177 in conference) Points Against: 330 (266 in conference) 2009 Recruiting Ranking: 8 2010 NFL Draft Picks: 3 Year 3 Stanford (2009, Jim Harbaugh): 8-5, 6-3 in conference Record against Top 25: 3-0 (#7 Oregon, #11 USC, #24 Washington) Result against Rival: Loss (unranked Cal) Points For: 461 (330 in conference) Points Against: 345 (235 in conference) 2009 Recruiting Ranking: 20 2010 NFL Draft Picks: 3 Michigan (2010, Rich Rodriguez): 7-5, 3-5 in conference Record against Top 25: 0-4 Result against Rivals: 0-2 (#7 OSU, #16 MSU) Points For: 412 (247 in conference) Points Against: 406 (314 in conference) 2010 Recruiting Ranking: 20 Year 4 Stanford (2010, Jim Harbaugh): 11-1, 8-1 in conference Record against Top 25: 1-1 (beat #13 Arizona) Result against Rival: Win (unranked Cal) Points For: 484 (327 in conference) Points Against: 214 (159 in conference) 2010 Recruiting Ranking: 26

Patricia Lesko

Mon, Nov 29, 2010 : 11:50 a.m.

I was just south of Columbus this weekend, and just for fun had on my Michigan shirt. A couple stopped me and said that they were from West Virginia. (They root for OSU in the Mich-OSU rivalry.) They laughed and said that they hoped Michigan would keep Rodriguez another few years. Several OSU fans asked me if I'd gone to the game. I said that I would never pay that much money to see Michigan get pounded so badly. When Michigan lost to the University of Toledo, I vowed not to buy another ticket to a game until Rich Rodriguez is cut loose. He came with way too much baggage. College football isn't about perfection, IMHO. That's what makes it exciting. However, our football program needs a coach who doesn't break NCAA rules. The hard-working players need a coach who can teach them to reliably move the ball into the end zone from the 3-yard line. It's time for Dr. Coleman to quit standing by her man, man up, and end the sorry chapter she wrote by hiring Rich Rodriguez. As the hockey fans say at Yost: SEE YA!

garrison56

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 9:18 p.m.

Mo, Glad you took my post in the humorous, world-weary spirit in which it was offered. It IS only a game, after all :)

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 9 p.m.

Time for action. Michigan fans deserve better.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:48 p.m.

Mo, thanks for the reasoned response. Maybe the difference between you and I is that I don't think RR is in the top 25% of coaches - meaning replacing him is not such a big risk. I see a very good offensive coordinator who does not appear to know how to run a big time program. It worries me that the defense and special teams appear to be getting worse. It worries me that RR isn't exactly what you would call a classy person (which is the real reason he got 'caught' violating NCAA rules - disgruntled players turned him in.) And mostly, it worries me that the football program will end up like the basketball program, in such shambles that it takes years to return to its former glory - even if we disagree on how 'glorious' it was. There's been so much chest-thumping about the spread offense in this thread that it's easy so miss the real issues at hand. The offense is fine. If RR had done the same kind of 3-year turnaround with the rest of the team that he did with offense, they'd have 9 wins this year and everyone would agree they were on a path to exceed the Carr legacy. But in fact, the turnaround has been in the opposite direction. RR inherited a good defense that was not decimated by the NFL draft and has turned that defense into a joke. So I don't see changing coaches as that much of a risk. What I see as a risk is another year or two of RR further dismantling the program. It's time for Brandon to step up and be the A.D. he was hired to be.

garrison56

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:40 p.m.

Mo, you've beaten us all down with sheer tenacity. You have shouted us down. One 1000 word post after another. Amazing. I admit it.... Rich Rodriguez is a better coach than Lloyd Carr, Gary Moeller, and Bo Schembechler. Ryan Mallett's "character issues" were too great for him to succeed in Ann Arbor. The cupboard was bare. Ignorance is strength. War is peace. Your performance was amazing. I am in awe.

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:36 p.m.

@Johnnya: You're right about the importance of Cam Newton. Let me clarify my position: the system is more important than the players. I agree that bad players kill any system, but great players in the wrong system don't work either. Arkansas with GT's offense would be pretty bad. RR implemented a system that is QB centered and didn't have a DI QB on the roster (Threet may be one now, but he wasn't then). The biggest problem is what he did on the other side of the ball. It's ridiculous and an embarrassment. Regarding the violations, I have no problem with being sanctioned for breaking established and fair rules. RR screwed up, the program has been punished. Rightfully and fairly. But I don't think that's a reason to fire him any more than I think a false start penalty should result in a player being automatically ejected from a game. What RR did to our defense is a felony. His getting caught over-practicing is a traffic violation. And please tell me you wouldn't rather have Bill Lynch heading our program - 3 straight losing seasons and losing games by 60+ points - than RR? C'mon!

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:15 p.m.

SeaEagle: "Mo, your posts are filled with so much overblown rhetoric that it's hard to see the logic you're trying to present." Point taken. But I'll call it a "mythical National Championship" (mNC) until it's decided on the field with a tournament. First: I compared Johnson's tenure at GT with RR's tenure at UM because it's the same period of time, and both came in with radical changes to the offense. GT had talent - in particular at QB and RB - that made Johnson's transition faster. Second: Over the past 20 years, those programs I mentioned have surpassed us in quality. I did choose that time period arbitrarily, but it does equate with some important changes in how college football is played. Michigan was producing pros at a great clip, but we only fielded two teams that legitimately competed for the mNC. And by the time RR came in, the cupboard was dry and he didn't have the players he needed for his system. Third: I'm all about being the top team in the country. Us Maize and Blue fans can hang our hats on the 1997 season, but we've only competed for a mNC once since then. We're all about "history", but we haven't done jack in recent history when it comes to winning it all. I hate Ohio State, but I want UM to win mNCs and Bowl games. I know this is a sacrilege to say, but Bo was only good at one of those 3 things. Carr was better, but for me, the Appalachian State loss nullifies that Bowl win that season, and he had lost 5 of the last 6 bowls before that, including 4 in a row. Fourth: RR may have blown his chances in AA with what he tried to do with our D. I have no problems with the O, and I watched Brendan Gibbons kick for 4 years in HS with my own eyes. If you would have told me that he a) wasn't the best HS K in the country and b) he'd struggle to make an extra point in college, I'd have never listened to you again. IF we replace him now, it better be a 100%, no-brainer lock or it's just compounding things.

johnnya2

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 7:08 p.m.

@ MO If you believe the "system" is why Auburn is undefeated you are a fool. Take Cam Newton out of the equation and tell me how the SYSTEM wins even 6 games. It is why systems like this are stupid. If you believe in systems do much, why has Rich Rid only won 7 games and not beaten a real opponent yet? Johnson won his first year, why can't Rich? Oh thats right, he is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE coach. There is no coach in the Big Ten worse than him, including Ron Zook. As for Georgia Techs record, would you like to compare the last three years of Ga Tech to the last three years at Michigan. How about the last three years of the Lloyd Carr era. You are a master liar. You shorten or lengthen the period of time you want to analyze to try and make your point, and fail miserably. The violations you seem top deem MINOR like a traffic violation are NOT. These are considered MAJOR by the NCAA. FIVE OF THEM. As usual, the Kool Aid drinking fools minimize this. I guess in your world, holding should never be called because it is only a little crime. Offsides is not a major penalty, so the refs should let it go. A last second field goal that gets the snap off too late should just be allowed to go on, since it was only a tiny bit late. Rich Rod, KNEW the rules, agreed to the rules, BROKE the rules, and is a convicted CHEATER. The ONLY saving grace was the history of coaches like Bo, Mo, and Lloyd and their character and reputation that saved the program. As it comes out these same violations happened at WVU, you and the rest of the losers will say, well it wasn't at Michigan. I have ZERO respect for Rich Rid as a coach, and even less as a person. I have said from day one I thought he was not the man for the job, and I am proven right day after day after day. I have closed my check book to the U, as have many other alums. I have made my position on this clear with President Coleman. A 13-0 football team is not as important to me as the reputation of the university. I have been truly disgusted by three hires at the UM. Brian Ellerbee, Tom Goss, and Rich Rod. I think history shows I was very accurate regarding all three of them.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 6:32 p.m.

Mo, your posts are filled with so much overblown rhetoric that it's hard to see the logic you're trying to present. Maybe if you didn't use "overrated", "over-hyped", and "mythical national championship" in each of your posts, I could understand you better. In one post you say "You think a team losing all of that NFL caliber talent in one year was going to go 9 - 4 with a different coach!??!" In another you say "Over the past 20 years, Miami, Florida State, Nebraska, and USC all passed us in the minds of high school kids who wanted to play at the next level." Which is it? How does a team that can't attract high school kids send so many of them to the NFL that the incoming coach has no chance? In nearly every single post you deride the previous regime. If the results of that organization were so bad, how do you describe the results of the current one? And while we're at it, how would you describe Rodriquez's program at West Virginia, where he had less wins than Michigan over his 7 year tenure (in a FAR easier conference) and also sported a losing bowl record? You can try to obfuscate the discussion by insulting the Lloyd Carr program all you like. It has no bearing, except that it established a benchmark that is being badly missed. Any chance you could instead stick to the discussion at hand - that of a lightly-experienced head coach leading a Michigan team that is performing at a level we haven't seen since the 60s.

Blueman Rick

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 6:31 p.m.

we: Thanks for the tip of the hat on the Adams/OKeefe reference. The point I was attempting to make re: the statistical evidence supporting RRs inadaptability as a strategist has to do with his coaching tactics during his first season at UM not his overall record. As a former HC, I was surprised and annoyed watching him force the spread system on athletes recruited and trained to play in the pro set or variant. My coach training and experience has always been to coach the system that fits the talents of the players on your roster. Ostensibly, he wanted to prove his mettle as an offensive guru right out of the gate; certainly his prerogative. Unfortunately, many other aspects of team development were overlooked, most glaringly the defense and kicking game. I concede you may be correct in pointing out that he has adapted his system and tactics to player personnel in the past. I had not followed his coaching career closely prior to his arrival in A2. But Im not sure Ive seen much evidence that RR has adapted his tactics when Forcier has been in at QB this season. Explosive as it has often been, the offensive has a wild and harried quality to it. Against lesser opponents, it has been thrilling to watch; against better opponents, less so.

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 5:17 p.m.

@Johnnya2 I agree with you that player talent is the ultimate determining factor of team success. Systems definitely factor into the equation, but there's a reason D2 teams rarely beat D1 teams, and its not because they don't have good systems. @Blueman Rick You got me on the Adams/O'keefe thing. I never knew they collaborated. My art professor would be sad;-) I was trying to be clever by pointing out that Adams works exclusively in black and white. You were even more clever in your rhetort, "Maybe you allude to the fine assistant coaching staff RR collaborated with in the ruin of the program; a collaboration that has been totally artless." Touche. I'm don't understand what "statistical evidence" you are referring to that confirms that RR did not adapt his coaching style to the talent that was on the team. I can only guess you're referring to the overall record, in which case I would strongly disagree that the record confirms any such thing. But, I don't want to put words in your mouth, and you've proven to have informed opinions so I'll let you state your case for yourself.

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 4:34 p.m.

Johnnya: Did you not know that Johnson went 9 - 4 and 11 - 3 the two previous years at Tech? Or are you choosing to ignore that. Maybe if RR had come in and gone 9 - 4 and 11 - 3 in his first two years, would you be complaining that he's 6 - 6 now? If so, you'll never be satisfied as a fan of any football program. You appear to have a hatred for RR that I don't share. I've said repeatedly that I'm no fan of his, I'd rather have Chris Petersen, and that RR's hiring Greg Robinson and running the 3-3-5 are "fireable" offenses. And regarding the "5 violations", Michigan was found guilty of having too many practices and too many "coaches". I'm really not bothered by that. I mean, I guess people who drive over the speed limit and axe murderers are all technically "lawbreakers", but I don't think the same of their offenses. And Auburn runs the Spread Run-Option, just like Michigan does. They are undefeated because they run that system extremely well. You don't think so? Name their starting running back. Now name three from the past 5 years that are in the NFL now. At a school that has produced six current NFL starters at RB/FB, their change is a big system shift. Their system was, two days ago, one point better than Nick Saban's outstanding defensive scheme, which has produced mythical Naitonal championships at two entirely different schools in the past 6 years. Again, your own example shows just how important system is. SeaEagle: We have to look at 2008, and every previous year, as well as the current ones. Without understanding the past, we have no perspective. Period. In fact, most of my fellow Big Blue fans hang their hats on "tradition" and "the past" because even though we have more football championships than any other school, almost all of them were in a time when the forward pass was still a wacky and crazy concept. In the past 50 years, we've had one mythical National Championship, a slew of Bowl losses, and numerous seasons as an overrated, over-hyped football program. Over the past 20 years, Miami, Florida State, Nebraska, and USC all passed us in the minds of high school kids who wanted to play at the next level. We've been stuck in the past as well as on our past. RR represented a move toward the future of college football. That move may have been wrong, but this isn't the time to panic and try to correct it because we aren't '9 and 4 after losing to USC in the Rose Bowl' as usual. There are clearly better coaches out there, but we need to wait until one of them is available. Harbaugh and Miles are not. Petersen is.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 3:30 p.m.

David, a lot of us think Rich Rodriguez was Bill Martin's short-term fix to an embarrassing Les Miles situation. As for the rest of your post, I didn't support Bill Fisher as he systematically dismantled the basketball program and I'm not supporting Rich Rodriguez as he appears to be doing the same. If that makes me not a 'true fan' then so be it.

Blueman Rick

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 3:28 p.m.

"UM followers are very spoiled." "I bet that many of the fans that don't like what Rodriguez has done, are the same ones that were complaining about Bo, Moeller, and Lloyd. Frankly, I don't consider such critics true fans." Frankly, David, I went to UM during the same period and I see no comparison whatsoever between RR and Bo, Moeller, and Lloyd. If you attended UM during the BO-Woody era, I'm puzzled as to how you came to such a deduction. Sure we complained a bit about Bo out of frustration in losing to OSU or a bowl game. But never entertained the thought that he should be fired! Michigan supporters, alums and fans are not spoiled. We have high expectations and rightly so. Tradition and Excellence beget expectations for integrity, competence and, yes, success. All missing these last three years under RR.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 3:22 p.m.

Let's stop talking about 2008. Even us RR haters would have forgiven him for that year if it actually was a turnaround year and Michigan was once again fighting for a BCS spot this year. Let's stop talking about offense. Offense is not the problem on this team (with the possible exception of some coachable fundamentals like taking care of the ball and avoiding penalties). Let's stop talking about whether or not Michigan was overrated and Lloyd Carr was a putz. Regardless of how you feel about the previous regime, it was better than the current one - and that's the comparison that needs to be made. If you think the Carr program was awful, then you are making the argument that the Rodriguez program is worse than awful. In college, the head coach is responsible for everything - the talent, the coaching staff (especially if he summarily fired every single existing coach), the game plan, and ultimately the final score. Quit telling me the DC is bad, as if the head coach is somehow not responsible for him. Quit telling me he has to run a spread offense, as if it's OK to lose as long as he's in his system. Tell me why the team is still uncompetitive 3 years into the RR era. Tell me why the defense is abysmal, why the special teams are so bad, and why the team seems to have gotten worse as the season progressed (again). RR shouldn't be replaced because he was horrible in 2008. He should be replaced because he's still horrible in 2010.

David

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 3:07 p.m.

I had the good fortune of becoming a Michigan fan in 1969 and was a student during the early years of the 10 year war, 1971-1974. So I got to see probably some of the best years of the M-OSU rivarly, even though UM was only 1-2-1. I don't take a lot of stock in the fans who want to win every year, and don't believe UM should every have any down years, even with a new coach who is trying to build a program. I bet that many of the fans that don't like what Rodriguez has done, are the same ones that were complaining about Bo, Moeller, and Lloyd. Frankly, I don't consider such critics true fans. Football tradition is built over decades and UM is still one of the best programs in the nation. It turns out that right now, OSU has one of the best coaches they have ever had and he has their program as good as it's ever been. Ultimately this will make UM a better program. UM followers are very spoiled. There was never a losing season when Bo, Moeller, and Carr were coaches. True fans stick with their team and understand that such criticism though directed at the coach, or athletic director, affects the players mostly, including how they play. So if you just want to feel better by venting about the program, I would just as soon you go root for someone else, and let the true Michigan fans root for Michigan. Perhaps Rodriguez is not the future of Michigan football, but the program was on its way down before he came, certainly the M-OSU rivarly where UM had not one since 2000, except for 2003. UM did exceedingly well against OSU in the Woody, Earl Bruce and especially John Cooper era. Rivarlies tend to even out over time. Anyway, try some positive thinking some time. I think you'll find you'll feel better than being so negative and looking for short term fixes that won't last.

Blueman Rick

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 3 p.m.

Yes "we". Thank you. The statistical evidence does prove that RR did NOT adapt his coaching style to the talents of the Michigan roster. "You don't hire Ansel Adams to paint in water colors." Not sure about your analogy. I recall that Ansel Adams and Georgia O'Keefe collaborated on a book in which she painted watercolors from his photos. Maybe you allude to the fine assistant coaching staff RR collaborated with in the ruin of the program; a collaboration that has been totally artless.

johnnya2

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:50 p.m.

@ mo "Georgia Tech runs the same wing T, buck sweep, zone blocking scheme that your local Pop Warner team runs, and crushes people with it." Sure about that? We are now compared to Georgia Tech. Let's look at facts. What is the Ga Tech RECORD. Hmm, 6-6. GREAT SYSTEM that can win 6 games. When was Ga Tech last in the BCS? How many National titles? I'll give you proof players win. Urban Myer has the same system he had last year, but guess what is different? THE PLAYERS. Players win titles. If you think Nick Sabans "system" won for Alabama this year, you really are clueless. If you think Auburn is undefeated because of the Chizak system, there is no point in talking to you, since you have your head so far up Rich Rids ass, you cant see str8. Rich Rod is a cheater (FIVE major violation) How many under Carr Einstein? Rich Rod is a LIAR. (I am staying at WVU). He says he had a "verbal contract" to get upgrades at WVU (I guess he is too stupid to get something in writing? (I think that is laughable and proves his incompetence) This guy has been a disaster since day ONE. He is a horrible football coach, and he needs to go. He has embarrassed a world class university for far too long.

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:26 p.m.

@Blueman Rick What you say sounds good on paper but I just don't believe that's what actually happens in practice. All coaches have a known scheme/playbook they operate from. Some evolve over time. Some steal ideas from others. Some even made wholesale philosophical changes (i.e. Rick Neuheisal changing to the pistol offense). But, when you hire a coach, you know how they are going to coach. Any AD that hired Bo or Woody and expected them to pass the ball 40 times a game would have been delusional. Georgia Tech understood that when they hired Paul Johnson they would be running the triple option. There was no year or two to phase it in. That was the game plan. I said earlier there may be one or two exceptions that someone could dig up, but I feel pretty comfortable stating as a fact that 99% of coaches do not change their coaching philosophy when they get hired into a new job. I welcome anyone who knows more about it and has news to share to the contrary. When we hear coaches and announcers talk about adjusting to their personnel, they are talking about doing so within the parameters of their philosophy. There is statistical evidence to support that RR knows how to adapt. Some of his WV teams were very run oriented, some of his WV and Tulane teams were very pass oriented. You can see the same thing when Tate is at QB vs Denard. It all depended on the talent on the team. Either way, RR has always run the spread. You don't hire Ansel Adams to paint in water colors.

bossfan23

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:25 p.m.

Dear "We," not "Them," when someone talks a lot, it might be said of them, "that guy is in love with the sound of his own voice." In your case, I can only conclude that you love to read what you have written. It is the only possible explanation for the fact that you have spent so much time writing so much to say so little. Why do you dwell on 2008? Why not just look at the last couple of months and reach the same conclusion as almost everyone else? The hiring of Rodriguez was a mistake. Keeping him beyond Jan. 2 would be another mistake. Remember, hope is not a strategy and what else do we have when we are down to "hoping" that things get better? Even if this mistake gets to stay for another season, what difference will it make? Will we feel better about the direction of this program when Ohio State comes in here next November and only beats us by 20? Will you point to that as progress and justification for retaining him?

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:06 p.m.

@JohnnyA2 I agree with everything you say until you get to the following statement: "Rich Rod could not find an offensive scheme to suit Mallet, or Threet?" While Mallett and Pat White have very different skills, Mallett and Shaun King have very similar skill sets, and RR was wildly successful with King at Tulane. That is why it defies logic that RR would have concluded that he could not win with Mallett. More likely, it was Mallett who turned his back on the spread. I can only offer up a theory, but UM had a long streak of producing NFL ready QB's using a pro style offense. I imagine that is why he came here, and I imagine that played into his role in leaving. That, however, is pure conjecture. What is fact, is that RR had proven up to that point that his spread offense could adapt to any talented QB. I threw that word "talented" in purposely, because Threet would have struggled to perform under any system.

si coleman

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:58 p.m.

1. Seemed like majority of first down plays were straight handoffs to running back, with little or no gain. Where is the exciting spread offense, i.e. misdirection? fake handoffs? Must be too many "true freshman" in the offensive line. 2. Two of worst units all season--secondary and special teams. Is it a mere coincidence that the same man is responsible for both units? 3. Is there a system in place that tells coaches upstairs to notify RR when to challenge a call? If so, it didn't work yesterday. We need to know why the coaches and some of the players believe so strongly that the team will be significantly improved next year. After a full season, there was no improvement--regression was more evident.

Blueman Rick

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:42 p.m.

No "we". RR was NOT hired to run "the spread". He was hired to coach the Michigan football team. See above.

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:37 p.m.

Johnnya: Lloyd Carr and Michigan, for an entire decade, were synonymous with "overrated" and "Bowl loss". Carr won 6 bowl games, 4 of which came during the mythical NC years. He took an exceptionally talented U of M team with Hall of Fame talent and made them winners. Once they were gone, he went on to lose 5 of the next 7 bowl games. Yes, his last year included an emotional, quality bowl win, but when you say this: "In Lloyd's final year they had one horrible loss to Oregon, and an 11 pointer to OSU. " you cannot possibly be looking at this thing with any sort of objectivity. If you think they only had "one horrible loss" that year, then we can't even continue this discussion. As a matter of fact, your incorrect statement that "Systems don't win championships, players do." should remind you of the "system" that we could not stop in 2007. In fact I don't think that you can come up with a BETTER example of how excellent systems, in college, SMASH talented players. In the pros of course, you can't run a wishbone or a wing T, because those players are so good that certain systems just don't work. In college? Georgia Tech runs the same wing T, buck sweep, zone blocking scheme that your local Pop Warner team runs, and crushes people with it. And regarding Bowl games, if RR is still coach when Michigan plays and wins their game, he'll have the same number of Bowl wins as Carr had in his 1st three years. The comparison between Carr and RR is admittedly a difficult one, but Carr was promoted form within to run the exact same system with players he helped recruit. When you bring in a new coach with an entirely new system, there's a drop-off. RR hasn't done any better or any worse, record-wise, than I expected in his first 3 years. The biggest problem I have with him isn't practicing for too long and getting caught (the only difference between us and any other program is the "getting caught" part), it's hiring Greg Robinson and trying to run a 3-3-5 in the first place. That, to me, has been egregious, and if he ultimately gets fired for that, then so be it. But if they bring in Harbaugh or Miles, I think it becomes just as bad of a decision as hiring Robinson and running the 3-3-5.

Blueman Rick

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:03 p.m.

Mo, Mo, Mo. It's time for a little education. "The 2007-2008 program was imploding and in disarray." False. We were 6-2 in conference and 9-4. Returning players included: Terrance Taylor - DT - Jr., Brandon Minor - RB - Jr., Donovan Warren - CB - Soph., Stephen Shilling - RT - Soph., Obi Ezeh - LB - Soph., Tim Jamison - DE - Sr., Brandon Harrison - SS - Sr., Morgan Trent - CB - Sr., Brandon Graham - DE - Jr. And, of course, after RR's arrival, returning player Justin Boren transferred to OSU where he became first team all Big Ten in 2009. Top Recruits: Sam McGuffie - RB, Darryl Stonum - WR, Brandon Smith - DB, Boubacar Cissoko - DB, Brandon Moore - TE, Dann ONeill - OL and Elliott Mealer OL. Again and read this very carefully: He went 3-9 his first season (the WORST record in school history) and 2-6 in the Big 10 because he arrogantly forced the spread system on athletes recruited and trained to play the pro set. Coaching 101: Play the system that fits the talents of the players on your roster. This disaster is of his own making. In re: to the 250 million tab for the stadium renovations. Yes. A concern. But, if this debacle continues, it is probable that attendance at the Big House will slip. As will revenue dollars from national broadcasts. Michigan's most recent national TV appearances have been beyond embarrassing. Listening to Millen trying to fill time yesterday was almost worse than watching UM get thrashed. One would expect UM will be seen far less on the national stage until the program returns to prominence.

johnnya2

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:03 p.m.

@ "we".. How do you explain the fact that Bo had Jim Harbaugh, Rick Leach, Dennis Franklin all as QB's over his tenure as coach and was SUCCESSFUL with them all. Quality coaches adapt to the talent they have,. How about Lloyd Carr adapting his defense from a Jim Herman style to a Ron English style? How about the fact that Carr had Chad Henne (with a rocket arm) AND Brian Griese, who the only time one of his throws could break glass was at Scorekeepers. He developed plays for Mark Campbell and Jereme Tuman (the waggle) that were not used once these NFL caliber players left. Rich Rod could not find an offensive scheme to suit Mallet, or Threet? A hard headed coach forces his square peg offense into a round hole and expects it will fit. Carr won with Scot Driesbach at QB. AND if you remember back, Chad Henne was A TRUE freshman and WON. If Rich Rid can not attract talent that is at that level, then whose fault is that? Recruiting is part of the job, or actually is THE single most important factor for a college coach to be successful, bar none.

58-44-6

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 11 a.m.

Shoelace leaves if Richrod does... Shoelace comeback!!!!!!!

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 10:38 a.m.

Seaeagle said, "Saying "RR ran him out of town" may be hyperbole, but RR, and his unwillingness to run an offense that fit Mallett's skills, was the catalyst nonetheless." RR runs a spread offense that has highlighted both running (White) and throwing (King) quarterbacks. I am unaware of any skill set that Mallet has that would prevent him from being successful in a spread offense. To an underlying point of your criticism, that RR was, "unwilling to run an offense that fit Mallett's skills", I believe you are suggesting that RR should have not employed the spread offense. As I stated earlier, that adaptation can occur within the confines of the spread offense, but more to the point, what successful coaches in America scrap their entire offensive philosophy to fit one player? Tom Osborn ran a wishbone. Saban runs a pro-style offense. RR was hired to run the spread. I know it's very cliche to say coaches adapt to the talent they have available, but only comes from within the scheme being taught. If you have a bruising RB, you may be more inclined to call the running plays in your playbook, but you don't reinvent a whole new playbook. Bo didn't become a run and shoot team simply because he had Anthony Carter at WR. He adjusted his play calling within the system he employed. There might be an isolated coaching example someone can dig up where a coach revised their entire scheme to fit one player, but I don't believe it is common place, and to criticize RR for something most other successful coaches aren't asked to do is a double standard.

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 10:19 a.m.

@GObluebeatOSU I thank you for the well thought out and rational reply. I especially appreciate your use of facts and the link. Those were things I did not know and supports my belief that responsible debate enlightens all of us. I will still disagree that these quotes demonstrate that Mallet was "kicked out". Now, we don't know what was said between them, so I think it is always possible that RR asked him to leave. I don't believe that happened for two reasons. First, RR says, "I've talked to (them)...those are the indications I've gotten (that they are leaving." His use of the "indications" suggests that he didn't know their status but was being told their status from the players. If he were making the decision he would know for certain whether or not he was going to bring them back. The second point is one of motive. What motive would RR have to run off the most talented QB on his team? RR has employed running QB's (i.e. Pat White) and he has employed immobile QB's (i.e. Shaun King) successfully, so he had no motive to do anything other than retain the best talent. The smoking gun in your argument seems to be the fact that the dad said he wasn't aware of the decision. But are parent's always the first to know what a 19 year old kid has decided to do? The kid was legally old enough to make his own decision (those of you with college aged kids know you can't even see their grades unless they give you permission). It doesn't seem illogical to think the kid told RR his decision before he informed his parents. With the paparazzi media and the internet, I don't think its a stretch of the imagination that the story got out before Mallet informed his parents. Thank you for the info, because it certainly paints a clearer picture for me, but I still conclude Mallet chose to leave, like so many 19 year olds will do.

GoblueBeatOSU

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 9:28 a.m.

ok..@We" not "Them...you wanted "evidence that RR chose to not have Mallet".....ok...ok..fair enough....how about this. "Rich Rodriguez does not expect to coach wide receivers Mario Manningham and Adrian Arrington or quarterback Ryan Mallett at Michigan." ""Those are the indications I've gotten," Rodriguez told the Associated Press on Tuesday night. "I've talked to all three at various times recently.".. RR then told the AP...from RR himself...""We wish all of them the best."" Of course the AP asked the Malletts what was going on...the reply...."When told what Rodriguez said, Jim Mallett insisted his son has not made a decision. "Coach knows more than I do, I guess," Jim Mallett told the AP." fact...RR announced to the AP that Mallett would not be part of the program. Fact Mallett had not made a decision on returning to U of M at that point. Bottom line...RR kicked Mallett out. One of many bad decisions that RR has made. I just don't understand how someone gets to the coaching level of RR and not know how to work the talent that he has. Instead, RR ships the talent out. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-01-09/sports/0801080904_1_hawaii-fired-athletic-director-ryan-mallett-adrian-arrington

InsideTheHall

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 9:28 a.m.

"Rich Rodriguez - 0-12 vs. teams that have a winning record in the Big Ten. 0-9 vs. OSU, PSU, MSU. 6-18 in Big Ten play and will finish no higher than 7th place or WORSE every year. Worse 3 defenses in school history. Blow out losses almost every week vs. good teams." This was posted previously but is the tale of the tape with the RR era. This is over except for the press conference. This is not Michigan football. The short list: Jim Harbaugh Les Miles Brady Hoke One thing for sure, the next coach will have a M pedigree.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 9:08 a.m.

It's pretty well documented that Mallett left because of the hiring of Rodriguez. Saying "RR ran him out of town" may be hyperbole, but RR, and his unwillingness to run an offense that fit Mallett's skills, was the catalyst nonetheless. Yes, Michigan lost a whole lot of offensive skill players in 2008, but they lost exactly one defensive player to the NFL draft. After listening to some people defend Rodriguez, I think they must believe the defense still hasn't recovered from that 3rd round drafting of Shawn Crable. I've seen all the spin, but I have yet to see a single RR supporter explain how the defense and special teams have deteriorated to the current state in spite of the great coaching provided by Rich and his staff. Let's face it, we currently have a team that's one of the best RR has coached. Stick this team in the Big East and it wins 2 or 3 more games, and you have a 9 or 10 game winner. But at Michigan, the current coaching regime is failing. Whenever Brandon pulls the trigger, it will take several years to build the program back up to the BCS bowl level that Carr maintained. Let's hope Brandon starts that rebuilding process in 2011.

johnnya2

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:59 a.m.

@mo "we could end the season 8 - 5 with a bowl victory, which is more than I can say for Lloyd Carr's last 10 years as HC." Do you not know, or do you just prefer to make stuff up? Lloyd Carr's last season as UM coach was 9-4. He beat Florida in his bowl game. Lloyd Carr's team finished 6-2 in the Big Ten his final year. You say he was 6-7 in bowl games. Interesting analysis. What is Rich Rod's record in bowl games at Michigan? Oh thats right, he is so lousy he has NEVER been to a bowl game. For the ACCURATE record. Lloyd won a minimum of FIVE Big Ten games every year, and that was only in three of them. (twice in his first two years and again in 2005. His WORST finish in the Big Ten was 5th in his second year. In that last decade you talk about the WORST he ever finished was 3rd. Every year of his 13 year record as head coach did he fail to make it to the top 20 (2005). Finally, let's look at the scores of the games he did lose. The reason people are so angry is not just losing. It is the fact we are NOT competitive. In Lloyd's final year they had one horrible loss to Oregon, and an 11 pointer to OSU. This year they lost by 17 to MSU, 10 to an OVERRATED Iowa team at home, 10 to Penn State, TWENTY to Wisconsin and 30 to OSU. This is why nobody wants this guy around. He brought in a conditioning coach who was supposed to be some hero, yet the team has wilted in the second half of every season. He brought in an incompetent DC, he brought in these recruits who are playing on defense. Finally, the argument that freshman are playing is like the kid who kills his parents and cries about being an orphan. HE DECIDES WHO PLAYS. He thought these freshman gave him the best chance to win. It shows, he is oblivious to defensive talent. They are outsized and out classed in every way. One of the best players on that defense was pulled from the stands, and would not have a chance to play on any other team. In college, the head coach is responsible for the talent on the field unlike the NFL where you have salary caps or GM's making the decision. Systems do not win championships, players do.

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 8:26 a.m.

@GobluebeatOSU I'll be the first to admit I may be out on a limb contending that "no other team in 08 had a similar circumsance and performed well. I am not ultimately familiar with all 100+ programs, so I would be open the hearing counter exapmles. As for Mallet. You assert that RR "sent" Mallet out of town, suggesting that RR didn't want him and didn't try to retain him. I challenge that assertion and ask for evidence that RR chose to not have Mallet be part of UM. By all account I recall he left on his own accord. @3 and Out When presented with facts that your particular criticism of RR may be off base you rhetort that anyone that has a different opinion must be wrong and their facts and logic are null and void. That is not a very fair way to have a debate, which is one of the functions of message boards like this. One of my major complaints on this whole topic has been that some poeple seem so anxious to "pick a side" in this debate that they blindly reject other opinions lately because they so passionate about their own position. One of the main values of debating issues is that someone may present an element of an issue that you may not have thought about on your own, and the exchange of unique perspectives makes us all the more informed. When people blindly reject the ideas of others simply because they don't share the same viewpoint, and then are willing to blindly reject facts that may shed light on the truth, well...that is not only what ails Ann Arbor.com but a phenomenon that is dangerous for our democracy. "Yes", this is only football, and "Yes", you are entitled to your opinion, but facts should never be dismissed simply because they don't support your position. I believe RR should be retained. I presented facts that suggest his 08 had talent issues that strongly contributed to the failure of that season, regardless of the sucess of the 07 team. If there's a fact or conclusion that I've gotten wrong I welcome the correction. We can even debate about how to best interpret those facts. But facts in a debate cannot be dismised simply because they support a position other than your own.

GoblueBeatOSU

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 7:24 a.m.

@We" not "Them..."No major program in the country (save for maybe UCLA) was saddled with such a low talent and experience level at QB and also had success"....."So RR was dealt a poor defense and an anemic QB." Am I taking your point out of context? Are you saying that when RR arrived at Michigan he didn't have an outstanding QB to work with? You can't be saying that. I must be missing your point. I trust you remember Ryan Mallett. The very first thing RR did was to send Mallett out of town. RR couldn't ship Mallett out fast enough. Mallett wasn't good enough for RR. Well Mallett has 30 TDs this year and almost 3,600 yards passing. RR had one of the best QBs in the country when he got here. Mallett's team is 10 - 2 this year and just beat fifth ranked LSU while RR was losing yet again. On top of that, Mallett's new team has the 3rd best passing offense in the country. Don't tell me Mallett can't play. A coaches job is to work with the talent they have. RR sent the talent away. Yes, I blame RR for Mallett leaving. RR forced Mallett to leave. RR was bull headed and didn't want to adjust to the talent he had.

mmppcc

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 7:23 a.m.

I just can't understand why Michigan fans assume Michigan should be a great team. Did it ever occur to you that there are hundreds of football programs in the country that all want the same thing? Times change; just look at Notre Dame. I'm just one person, but I know if I was a blue chip recruit and had the choice to attend practically any school I wanted, Michigan wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list.

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 4:04 a.m.

All Records show that Richard A. Rodriguez has been a total 100% failure as Head Coach of The University of Michigan. All opinions to the contrary are just mindless spin. The FACTS are the FACTS. AA you can close this discussion now. Thank you.

"We" not "Them"

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:29 a.m.

To list players who never played a down for RR is to somehow suggest that it was his failure as a coach that caused them to leave. No coach in the country is "blamed" for kids going pro early, except for RR of course. I will NEVER understand how Trent made it in the pro's and Warren didn't, but Trent and Brown certainly didn't perform like future NFL players during their college years. Mallet didn't want to QB in a spread. RR was hired to run a spread. It happens all the time, but coaches aren't blamed for those transfers, unless you're RR. Schilling, Martin, Molk, and Stonum were all underclassmen and playing like it. The fact that they may be talented enough 4 years later to play in the NFL is no reflection on their performance level when RR had to put them on the field. Two names you left off that list are by far the most important names. Sheridan and Threet. The QB position is widely accepted as the most important position in football and RR was sent to battle with two underclassmen that barely had D2 talent. I know you may be tempted to point out that Threet is now QB at ASU, but only furthers the point of how far kids progress over 4 years. When he was at UM, Threet couldn't even beat out a walk on redshirt freshman. To hammer the point home let me suggest an extreme analogy. What would happen to the Red Wings if they put a high school goalie in net. Even with championship talent all over the lineup, Babcock couldn't come up with a scheme defensive enough to protect that achilles heel. The demise would be precipitous, and it would be no reflection on Babcock's coaching ability. I could tell the same story with an under talent pitcher in baseball. While all sports are unique, and goalies and QB's don't have the same responsibilities, they are universally accepted to have similar importance to their team's success. There have been teams built on such dominant defenses that a weak offense can be compensated for (2000 Baltimore Ravens, 97 Wolverines). RR, instead, was dealt a defense that has struggled for years and that had lost the season before to App St and Oregon (I'm sure people get tired of those two names, but those were watershed losses). Even in the Florida win the defense gave up 35 points. So RR was dealt a poor defense and an anemic QB. The 9-4 record suddenly seemed like a distant memory and the carnage began soon afterwards. But, when RR acknowledges that there was less talent here than he thought would be here (especially after seeing future NFL players Henne, Hart, Manningham, Arrington, and Long dominate the two seasons prior) RR is labeled as a fabricator and an excuse maker. This debate had gone on forever, and I know I shouldn't get sucked into it again, but it's tough to watch partial bits of information get portrayed as the whole truth. Points I'll concede (to save some of you the time of responding); -yes, players leave for the NFL from other college teams -yes, there were some talented players left on the 08 roster -yes, other teams have had to deal with defections due to new staffs Points I'll contend: -No, the talent from the 08 team does not begin to compare to the talent on the 08 team -No major program in the country (save for maybe UCLA) was saddled with such a low talent and experience level at QB and also had success -No, Lombardi couldn't have won with that team (I just had to throw that in there because it made me laugh to think about how much that line bothered some of you). People can argue (and we have for 2 years now) what type of contribution the other players should have or did make to the 08 team. But I think there is way more evidence out there that would suggest that most teams that go from senior QB's to Freshman QB's suffer a performance dip (I don't have the resources to confirm that as a fact but I'm going to state it as such). Evidence would also pile up on my side for the devastating effect backup level QB's have on their teams (and Sheridan and Threet were barely that on a good day). The combination of both youth and talent at QB made the '08 season a complete disaster. I don't think anyone can tell you they saw it coming, but I know I let out a few "Oh *%^#'s" when I heard that Sheridan was actually competing for the starting job. The QB situation trumped the team's other talent.

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 2:01 a.m.

3 and Out: Lloyd Carr, even if he had wanted to be the HC, was done at Michigan. The fans, the administration, everyone was tired of watching Michigan underperform and lose Bowl games. I'm not debating whether he was a class act, and I'm forever grateful for him winning the only U of M mythical NC in my 36 years on this planet, but as a coach he was done two years before he retired if your standard is "improvement" and not wins. Michigan has a strong precedent set for letting coaches retire instead of firing them. It's part of our tradition. Lloyd had no choice but to retire. Just like we have "Michigan lefts", we have "Michigan firings", Lloyd Carr notwithstanding. Regarding who was left on the team, that's a sparse list talent-wise. First of all, take the punter out. Manningham, Graham, and Martin are serious talents. Granted. But do you think Molk and Schilling haven't performed up to their potential? Mike Martin isn't as good as he should be? That RR and his staff haven't made them better? Mouton is not a pro, and Stonum is also a serious reach. I disagree with your assessment of the talent Carr left, and I think our record bears that out more than the coaching deficiencies. The "pros" who are there have improved. There just wasn't much talent overall.

bossfan23

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:28 a.m.

Matt Doughty, you made the comment that Greg Robinson "must have the best agent on the planet." Actually, that dubious distiction belongs to matt millen (always written in lower case letters) because how else does this moron continue to land great jobs? He was a decent linebacker but the worst GM in the history of professional sports. Getting fired by the Lions for ineptitude is the ultimate insult, yet he lands at ABC/ESPN and those idiots continue to send him into AA and Lansing to do their TV games, subjecting us to more of his ego. Haven't we suffered enough? I wish he would just go back to Pennsylvania and stay there. And if he could take RR and Jim Leyland with him when he leaves, it would be a great day for sports fans in this state!

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:20 a.m.

BTW "Mo" Lloyd left the following NFL players from his 2007 roster that had eligibility in 08: Adrian Arrington, Mario Manningham, Brandon Graham, Morgan Trent, Stevie Brown, Zoltan Mesko...that is 6 right there that for SURE went to the NFL...and that is not counting Steve Schilling, Mike Martin, Dave Molk, Jonas Mouton, Ryan Mallet and Daryll Stonum...all Lloyd guys and all have a pretty good shot of playing on Sundays and not just with their kids. To say that Lloyd did not leave a stocked cupboard when 6 + a possible 6 more were on the roster that he left...is absolutely ludicrious.

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:16 a.m.

MO the Manipulator...it is a FACT that Lloyd Carr wanted to retire after the 06 season but was talked to come back by Bill Martin. So...Lloyd had this provision written in to his contract for 2007: Every assistant coach will get 1 year of extra pay if I leave after 07. Lloyd, a man of class...did that because he knew it was his last and wanted to take care of his staff. Lloyd retiring was the worst kept secret. No offense and this is NOT a personal attack (AA) but you stating that Lloyd was "run out of town" is so far off-base that it totally invalidates any of your further opinions. Nothing could have been farther from the Truth. Lloyd called his shot and left on his own accord.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:15 a.m.

The defense is getting worse. The special teams are getting worse. Only the offense has been getting better. Maybe Lloyd didn't retire. But he DID have 20 wins in his last two seasons - and never had a losing one. So if he was run out of town, then the expectation surely must have been that they'd get someone better, not what they have. And I'm really tired of hearing people say that Michigan lost so much talent after the 2007 season. Michigan has sent a steady stream of players to the NFL for decades and yet they hadn't had a losing season in almost 40 years. And suddenly they had such an awesome graduating class that they went from 9 wins to 3? And, contrary to all common wisdom, did all these people in the NFL make it impossible to recruit more talent so that 3 years later the defense is giving up 34 points a game? It's time to cut our losses. The Big East isn't the Big Ten. Maybe you can beat Rutgers without a place kicker or with a backup punter who shanks 2/3 of his punts, but that's not going to work against Ohio State. Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the financial impact. Lloyd went to 3 BCS bowls in his last 5 years. Even though he lost all 3, the financial income from those 3 bowls was worth far more than his (or even Rodriguez's) salary. The dismal showing from the current regime is costing Michigan a heck of a lot more than the cost of a coaching change.

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:12 a.m.

yup...not a big fan of Rosenberg but he laid that column out perfectly...

ShadowManager

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 1:07 a.m.

Rosenberg in the freely pressed paper out of Detroit has great column breaking down the pluses/minuses of Richrod being fired. At the very least, Brandon is on the clock one way or another from now until bowl season...to make a statement/commitment. Hopefully he won't do it by some wiseacre twitter message this time...

JP

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:44 a.m.

It appears that Michigan played on the exact level that I anticipated.

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:42 a.m.

Is Michigan deserving of better???

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:38 a.m.

MO - In other words.... Michigan deserves better! Right?

Mo the Educator

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:32 a.m.

Things are getting a little personal with name-calling and non sequiturs. I'm not sensitive to it, and this is a message board. I just point that out because they're signs of a weak argument. Let's start here: Lloyd Carr didn't "retire" any more than Nixon "resigned". Reality is, they were both run out of town and could not have kept their jobs. The University got tired of watching us with these gaudy rankings and regular season records, only to lose year after year in bowl games against teams with running quarterbacks and faster skill players. Carr won 6 bowl games out of 13, 4 of which came in the 90's. Those were not "good old days", when our ranking was exposed. Next, I agree that Wisconsin gets the most out of their recruits... in their system, losing year in and year out to Michigan and OSU. Then they get to a crappy bowl game and lose to a more talented, faster SEC team. That's what happens when you have those types of recruiting classes. Michigan should have been beating Wisconsin regularly, and we were. Regarding the talent left in AA when RR came in, what was left was really young. Sure, Ryan Mallett in 2010 is a beast, and Steven Threet has made himself into a pedestrian college QB. But Threet and Mallett back then?? And 3 NFL players total? From a school that had been a pro football factory, the best we have is 3 NFL players and 1 really good transfer? And if Morgan Trent is one of them, Dwayne Jarrett and I have some film we want to show you of my face and every other diehard U of M fan watching him get roasted play-after-play, year-after-year. Finally, I'm struggling to understand how a program that has won two more games each year is on its way down? Are there significant problems? Of course, but if we do play Florida in the Gator bowl (who got crushed today by their archrival with almost the same score as we did), we could end the season 8 - 5 with a bowl victory, which is more than I can say for Lloyd Carr's last 10 years as HC. We all see the problems and we're all frustrated. I'm convinced that a new DC and another year for RR makes this team better. With a better record. I'm not for derailing the progress we've made in the win column for a new HC unless it's Petersen. Anything else is a step back, and I'm all about wins for Big Blue. Period.

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:30 a.m.

... agreed. Bill Martin is the root cause for the failure of UofM football and the loss of the WJR contract, but that's another story for another time.

SeaEagle

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:25 a.m.

This mess isn't Rich Rod's fault - he's just a horrible coach doing the best job he can. The culprit here is Bill Martin who made a knee jerk reaction after screwing up the Les Miles deal. Of course he 'retired' leaving this mess in Dave Brandon's lap. It's time for Brandon to show he's a quality A.D. and take care of the problem he inherited.

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:22 a.m.

He had a good run at WV, so be more patient.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:19 a.m.

Other than destroying the program, what in the world has the Hack done to deserve more time? Seriously?

Robbie Webb.

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:12 a.m.

I do have to admit I am very disappointed with the outcome today, we all know OSU has a better team than us at this point, but I was hoping and was sure they would at least keep it interesting, and for one quarter...they did, and that's where it stopped. Truth be told, OSU did not stop Michigan's offense, Michigan stopped Michigan's offense. Same against MSU earlier in the season. The offense works, and it's shown, see also Oregon. Michigan has to field a defense. And with youth and injuries GALORE I'm not shocked how the defense played this season. If Rich Rodriguez is back, which I'm almost certain he will be, and if Michigan does not have players dropping like flies due to injuries, then Michigan will get to a BCS game next season. I never made any preseason predictions for this season except to say that if Michian didn't lose players due to injuries, then there was no reason Michigan shouldn't win at least 7+ games, and I was right, and we could win eight before it's all said and done. 8-5 looks great to me, especially what this team as gone through in terms of the roster. I like Rodriguez, but I understand why others are furious...but it wont last long, MSU and OSU will get what's coming to them one way or another. They'll never be better than Michigan, the only thing that sucks is we have to wait until next season to get another shot. IF Rodriguez were to be let go and Les or Jim was hired, then GO BLUE! I'll stand by my Wolverines through the good and the bad. We'll get back on top, this is just a Cinderella story in the making.

Joshua

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:10 a.m.

Why in the world would Harbaugh leave the excellent team he's developed in the awesome state of California to come back to Michigan where they don't take the academic pursuits of their scholarship athletes seriously? The rebuild time under a new head coach will only further expose Michigan as the joke they've been for some time. The conference has gotten strong and the weaknesses of Michigan have been exposed. Trussel has shown how to adapt and win, Michigan State has showed how to adapt and win, Wisconsin has shown how to adapt and win, Michigan has shown us all how to fail. Then all the fans keep falling back on the history of how great Michigan was. Bo got NO national championships, failed regularly in bowl games, and won Big Ten championships when the Big Ten was nothing but Ohio State and Michigan, everyone else was troubled. To me that doesn't mean squat Chase RichRod out before he can provide the Big Ten with a team that helps all Big Ten teams adapt and win our bowl games and national championships, and we all lose. Harbaugh nor Miles are coming, so you can either give RichRod a shot or chase him out to quickly, which means you lose all the great recruits he's brought in. Personally I think had Tate been the starter and Denard an offensive weapon, Michigan would have won more games. Regardless of all, keep relying on your history to make you think you're so great. Michigan is nothing but a joke these days and that feels good!

TFR

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:09 a.m.

TWSUofM -> geeeez... take a chill pill. Give OSU academics more credit than that.... come on; re-read what you posted. Get a grip! You need to be more patient while RR builds his team - period!!

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:07 a.m.

Actually RR's Signature Win was vs. Delaware State last year...now that was impressive whipping that HS level team!

ThoseWhoStayUofM

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:05 a.m.

Marlon, I don't appreciate the sarcasm. Your comment was utterly ridiculous. ESPN ranked Michigan's 3OT win over Illinois as the best game of the year this year. Does that not count as a signature win? What about when Michigan beat a ranked Notre Dame team last year in the last seconds of regulation. That isn't a signature win? Frankly, Michigan has had a signature win in every year of Rich Rod's tenure. This is why I, as well as many rational observers, can't take the Rich Rod haters seriously. I will admit that this most recent loss cuts me to the core and takes me almost to the point of complete indifference to Rich Rod's status as the head coach, but at least my conclusions are based in actual fact and logically valid induction.

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:05 a.m.

Tongue Firmly Rooted....lol you crack me up! keep it coming its fun.

3 And Out

Sun, Nov 28, 2010 : 12:03 a.m.

thosewhostay...lol @ your Wisky 08 reset...first of all your idiot coach had to rely on Steve Threet, who he later ran off...to win that game and he also did it with Lloyd Carr's players (the last gasp of an awesome 40 year regime)... and that Wisky team fell apart and was terrible the rest of the year... so much for that Signature Win... PS: Signature Wins are supposed to be built upon...this one if you qualify it...was over 2 years ago. Keep reachin! 0-12 vs. winning BT teams... 6-18 overall in BT... 0-9 vs. our BT rivals. 3AndOut wins again!!!!!!! Harbs in 011!

ThoseWhoStayUofM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:56 p.m.

OSU graduates suggesting they drop Michigan from the last game of the season and pick up Wisconsin... that's typical. Do they even have admission standards at OSU? Ohio State has had a decade of success against the Wolverines, thus the tradition of "The Game" should cease to exist. Boy... I sure do love OSU logic. I really feel bad after a blow-out loss to OSU because I want my team to be great however, after hearing the OSU grads speak for about a minute, I start to feel better about myself again. I realise I'm not the football team. I'm a student at an amazing academic university... and the OSU students will never understand that... and that makes me smile.

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:56 p.m.

... ok, now we are on to something... we have something to build on as RR continues to assemble his pieces. More signature wins are coming within the next couple of years.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:52 p.m.

I stand corrected! All is well with the good ship U of M! Rose Bowl here we come! :)

ThoseWhoStayUofM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:49 p.m.

I guess beating a ranked Wisconsin team in RR first year as head coach, coming back from a 17 point deficit in the fourth quarter, doesn't count as a signiture win.... Apparently Walmart Wolverines have short memories.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:45 p.m.

I hear you TFR. It is not a lack of patience that is the problem for so many fans. We have all been patient. I did not expect miracles or 10 win seasons. I do expect you to be able to make a FG, tackle, and punt. But maybe that too is expecting too much. Ugh! :)

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:42 p.m.

Hang in there Marlon... signature wins are coming within a year or two. RR just needs more time; and you need to be more patient.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:22 p.m.

Brian Kelly got his "signature" win in his first season. He just beat USC on the road. When is RR signature win coming? I guess the next day after never...LOL

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11:19 p.m.

Miami Hurricanes fire Randy Shannon for going 7-5 in his fourth year. Guess they don't subscribe to the AA rules for coaching changes. I know he won 9 games last year. But he was.500 in conference. RR is not even close to.500. Just a different definition of "progress" I suppose...;)

Townie56

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 11 p.m.

Why would Harbaugh or any coach want to come to A2 and have to deal with all the clueless faithful that clog up the town 6 times a year?

OSUBuckeye

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:59 p.m.

tfr, okay.

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:49 p.m.

... most coaches are pushing the envelope on NCAA rules; sometimes crossing the line. RR just needs more time. Give him three more years and everything will work itself out.

OSUBuckeye

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:39 p.m.

i'm an osu grad, I would really like osu to consider dropping um from the last game and pick up wisconsin. The rivalry isn't one anymore and the guy you have as your coach is not good

D21

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:39 p.m.

Hmm, do we put out a search for that kool aid drinker, 57-43-6, as it is nowhere to be seen on this forum...busily eating crow upon crow...I forgive RR and am glad it is over with as UM will dismiss RR and hire someone else (hopefully Harbaugh) pretty soon. It is funny to see other kool aid drinkers try to defend RR. RR brought one major sin that hurts him the most and it ain't the W-L column but the NCAA investigation itself. 2011 - UM 28 OSU 24

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:38 p.m.

Everyone is way too hard on Rich Rod. He just needs a couple more seasons to get all of the pieces in place and then UofM will back in the top echelon of the Big 10. He needs more time - period!

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:35 p.m.

good point byron and the sad thing is that Koger has potential to be an all BT TE if they would just include him in the offense....he will be a weapon under Harbs

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:34 p.m.

Greggy D thanks for the info on Wisky's class rankings...I had no idea that they were THAT low consistently...it makes one respect the coaching they have over there... it certainly was the right choice for them to have Beilema in place for when Alvarez retired.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:31 p.m.

38-0 Stanford late in the 4th and they are just gutting OSU on the ground like Bo used to... I cant believe how physical that team is...and they are rhodes scholar - type smart kids too at Stanford... way to go Harbs!

byron

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:31 p.m.

OH yea one more thing, the UM staple fake handoff going left, bootleg going right for a easy pass and catch to the TE, Tuman or Reimersma. Havent seen that in three years. Please help me understand the TE's roll in this offense.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:26 p.m.

Wow Greggy D. That is a lot lower than I thought but it shows that the whole "recruiting class" argument has its flaws. You have to find good players and coach them well. I am just not confident in RR ability to do so. I don't think we "need" Harbaugh. We need a coach who will stop making excuses for everything. I think if just once RR took some blame for something, he would be cut more slack. Wisconsin is a very disciplined well-coached team. I think the best in the Big Ten for sure.

byron

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:20 p.m.

Ok guys this my humble but accurate opinion. I have been watching UM football since 1971 I am in my mid forties. I have never seen such a horrific defense in my life. Good news the last three years. I have been able to get chores done on Saturdays now, that I dont have to be glued to the TV thinking UM has any chance to win against the big five in the big ten. I used to get jazzed against the sparties and the buckeyes but no more. With that said, I believe that Brandon will be making a phone call to Harbaugh after their bowl game and get a temperature check on what he wants to do. You have to remember, he might want to coach in the nfl like his Bro. So to bring him for three years and have him bolt is no good either. If he does not want to coach in the NFL, RR is gone. If he does RR stays for one more yr. Secondly, I want to clarify something, RR did not have three years to recruit. He was really third choice after the Les Miles debacle and the turn down from the coach at Rutgers. RR did not take the controls until after Jan 1 of that year. The better recruits had already commited and maybe enrolled in order to participated in spring ball. So in my opinon, that first year does not count. Now second and third year yes, RR focused on the offense, get his guys and his scheme, that is obvious by how horrible the defense is, Alot of injuries to key peoople and more experience for next year on D. I think 9-3 next year or RR is out, assuming Harbaugh does not want to coach college full time. I do think the D will be better next year and DROB will be a beast, and with the kid from Florida coming in at RB will lessens the pressure on DROB to run all the time. However, GROB has to go at the D Coach, its terrible. I hate when coaches that get recycled, a terrible hire, dump him the day after whatever bowl we are going too. Third, absobulety make the Kicking game a priority. Consistently all season they had to go for forth down when outside the 20, that is freaking ridicously, that is on RR. With, OSU, PSU, Iowa all at home and a win in Lansing, I think 10-2 or 9-3 is doable. If the defense allows forty plus points though we are in for another.500 season and grounds for dismissal.

Greggy_D

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:19 p.m.

@Marlon "How many "top-ten" recruiting classes does Wisconsin have? Not many I would be willing to bet." Here it is..... Wisconsin 2002 #50 2003 #40 2004 #39 2005 #34 2006 #40 2007 #34 2008 #41 2009 #43 2010 Not in top 50

Ron Granger

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:13 p.m.

"Dropped balls, penalties, no kicking game whatever, poor special team play... the list goes on." It's like Michigan just needs to practice more. Oh wait - they are already in trouble for that. RichRod needs to go. Just Do It - fire him. The longer they wait, the more damage is done to the recruiting pipeline, the reputation, the record. If they were a bit smarter, there would have been a performance clause in his contract instead of the probable golden parachute.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 10:07 p.m.

OSU and MSU can talk all they want. They love RR in AA. They know deep in their hearts they would hate to see Harbaugh in AA because he is a real coach who knows the Big ten and how to build a program that will compete in the conference. RR staying is a blessing to them and they know it. Tress and "Dano" hope RR never leaves. That's guaranteed job security for them. :)

Sevans68

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:58 p.m.

It's time for Rich to go. I would love Peterson from Boise State or Harbaugh to be the next coach. Someone who has the fire and ability to inspire this team, teaches the fundamentals (tackling, kicking, blocking) can recruit good players and get them to improve during their career (Obi Ezeh has not improved in his last 3 years). Mo - While your entitled to your opinion I don't follow our logic. If Rich were 7 - 5 with close loses against the best team and played them tough I could se another year. But his close wins (Indiana, Illinois, ND & UMass) don't give me confidence that the program is headed in the right direction. As for people saying there was no talent when he got here and it was a 3 win team, I'll take whatever your on so I could see the same things you do. Mallet (problems and all) would have been great in a traditional offense. Even Threet is thriving at ASU in an offense where the QB isn't a primary runner. Rich came in making many changes, didn't hold on to any of the traditions and many players left because they didn't fit the spread option offense. That is the bed Rich Rod made and now he has to live with those decisions. I'm hopeful David Brandon will make the right decision. The man knows what Michigan football was and can clearly see what it has become under Rich Rod.

Tomas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:51 p.m.

I guess that about covers it for RR as HC of Michigan. I'm a bit prejudge when it comes to RR and Michigan Football. I've been a fan for as long as I can remember, all the way back to the 13-12 lost to Stanford (the 72 Rose Bowl for those that don't know), now that was football. And I've never liked RR's style of football, nor his coaching style, needless to say I wasn't happy to see him come to Michigan, and though he has proven me right, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. My opinion won't matter in the decision to keep or fire RR, there's too many other factors involved, including the almighty dollar, that will. There's plenty of talent on the team and under the right coach can generate results. Many coaches have had less to work with and still produced winning seasons. Any coach who has the resources at hand that RR has available to him and can't produce beyond excuses, doesn't deserve to be called HC and definitely not a "Wolverine". P.S., A.D. the buck for the team stops with the HC (.99 cents short), the buck for the HC stops with you, how much do you have in your bank?

Ed

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:50 p.m.

Ho,Hum, another OSU victory. It's like playing NW or Minn.

Matt

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:40 p.m.

This from a Kansas observer...you folks don't have another trouble with RichRod and some questionable recruiting on defense, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Greg Robinson on the UM staff....! I had to laugh, he must have the best agent on the planet. Absolutely, positively ruined the Kansas City Chiefs defense and was run out of town, made an absolute joke of a once proud Syracuse team and will help the Wolverines circle the drain. What brain dead person in the AD's office let this hire happen?? You poor people...

Jaxon5

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:36 p.m.

I think 200 comments might be a record for annarbor dot com. I don't know why everybody is so upset. We have a flashy offense and that's all that matters. It's okay that the offense sputters and fails to deliver against teams with winning records. It's the potential that the offense could break a big play that makes it exciting and fun to watch. And, that's what really matters is that we have fun. Winning is nice, but it's not everything. (Not!)

"We" not "Them"

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:27 p.m.

@Johnnya2 "Lies" is such a strong and provocative word. Tisk Tisk. While I know wikipedia is not the ultimate bastion of correct information, I did fail to site the source of my information, so thank you for pointing that out. I did not intend to imply that Gene Chizik's first year at Auburn was 3-9, I was pointing out that he was hired by Auburn DESPITE the fact that his coaching record his first two years was 3-9 and 2-10. It was a hire that infuriated some members of the Auburn fan base. They cited his record as proof positive he was unqualified to coach a major university like Auburn. My point was to illustrate that conclusions drawn by fans are not necessarily the conclusions administrators draw, and that sometimes those decisions are right. I am not asserting administrators always make better decisions than fans, just that there are historical parallels to the decision David Brandon has before him, and that logic does not bind him to fire RR simply because the fans have drawn that conclusion. As to your request for a 3 year window, it would probably been a fairer presentation. For the record, Chizik only spent 2 years at Iowa State before the decision to hire him was made. Coach K's first 3 years were (17-13,10-17,11-17). I can see being called to task for omitting the first year, but my point in his situation was that after his third year there was a fire storm of public outrage to have him fired and administration chose differently. Your complaint may have traction with Hayden Fry's 3 year record (5-6,4-7,8-4), but I feel comfortable that my argument is strong enough without the Fry reference. Name calling has no place in an intelligent discussion. I know I can be guilty of this just like everyone else, but we should all try to be better. I'll stand behind my point that, while David Brandon may or may not fire RR, it would not be unprecedented or illogical if he retained RR.

XTR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:27 p.m.

LOL! There are still RR supporters after what you saw in the OSU game? The sure thing about RR's team is that they cannot compete with the big boys of the Big Ten! All of our losses were in the same manner! We lost bigtime! The RR lovers still want loser to coach another year and make UM lose some more? LOL!

John

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:24 p.m.

I'm as frustrated as any U of M grad. I remember when Lloyd announced his retirement and many people thought it was time for "M" to go in a different direction. What was wrong with the Schembechler family? Bo's record at "M" 194-48-5, Gary Moeller 44-13-3, and Lloyd Carr 122-40. I believe Rich Rod is a good coach but not at "M". Dave Brandon is part of the Schembechler family, and I trust he will make the right decision.

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 9:24 p.m.

How many "top-ten" recruiting classes does Wisconsin have? Not many I would be willing to bet. Wisc has good coaching and they find players who fit their philosophy for success in the Big 10. What is UM philosophy? Will it work in the Big 10? does not appear that it will. Let us see how long Brandon is willing to wait to find out.

"We" not "Them"

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:59 p.m.

While posts like this are predictable amongst any fan base following a loss, I am SO thankful the decision to hire/fire RR lays in the hands of David Brandon and not up for a public vote (at least not the Ann Arbor.com public). I won't waste any time trying to prognosticate whether Brandon will or won't. Talk about if he should or not is the nature of the beast, but posters who claim any outcome as a foregone conclusion are fooling themselves. Rational people can draw different conclusions in this argument. I just hope that people remain consistent after the decision. Those who call RR bereft of ethics and intelligence will necessarily have to transfer that deduction to all of the powers that be at UM if he is retained. You will have to call both Brandon and Coleman "unethical", "unintelligent", and "embarrassments" to the university because, by that logic, how could any rational person come up with any other conclusion lest they be in on the conspiracy. I think it's too bad some people are so certain of their position and unwilling to think that anyone with any intelligence could conclude anything other than what they have concluded. For the record, I believe RR should be retained. I present Coack K of Duke (10-17,11-17), Gene Chizik of current #1 Auburn (3-9,2-10), and legendary Iowa coach Hayden Fry (5-6,4-7) as examples of coaching situations where the public tried to run them out of town because they started their tenure slowly, but thankfully there were administrators who knew more and could foresee a turn around that the public didn't. Am I saying RR will definitely win 9+ games next year? "No". Which of us can really proclaim to know (well, many people here do proclaim to know with certainty, but that's what discredits their anger when others proclaim something different). What I do believe is that the decision is in the right hands. I trust Brandon. I hope he retains RR, but only time will tell. Let the RR bashing continue.

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:59 p.m.

This is all Bill Martin's fault... the same guy who blew the deal with WJR (he wouldn't return calls to Mike Feazy - oh well).

rocco

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:58 p.m.

I m a Rich Rod supporter who is very disgusted with the lack of the teams progress on multiple fronts. I disregard the youth, injury and empty cupboard arguments for the lack of progress. All good teams overcome many of these pitfalls and still produce a quality product on the field. But there are no excuses for poor tackling, dropped balls, missed field goals, bad kicks, and too many penalties. The burden of these repeated mistakes falls on both the players and coaches. Its disappointing that we cannot point to progress in these areas over the past three years. Its unclear at this point whether they can be corrected by coaching and/or recruiting. Most of the bloggers seem to feel that they have enough data points across multiple domains to fire the coach. I still like Rich Rods basic scheme: the high powered offense that outscores the competition and a quick defense that makes stops, forces three and outs, and causes turnovers enabling the offense to get back on the field. Isnt this what Oregon, Boise State, TCU do, albeit with somewhat different schemes? Heres what Brandon has to figure out. Can RichRod install a better defensive scheme and recruit top players to fill it? Can his defense make enough stops and make big plays? Is his defense and offense durable enough for the physical level of Big 10 play? Is his entire scheme sound enough to win against top teams in the conference and elsewhere? If the answer to any of these questions is no, than RichRod has to go despite the economic fallout.

johnnya2

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:46 p.m.

@jameslucas "I never worry about the head coach its the student athletes recruited by that coach I care about" Oh really? So you have come around and agree he should be fired for making them practice too long AND putting them on probation. A university is not there to be a popularity contest of the coaches OR professors. This guy is like a professor who can not teach. I wonder how you would feel about a professor who taught a class and the entire class (the defense) FAILED and knew LESS as the semester progressed. Yes, lets hold Rich Rod to the same accountability we would a professor. Are yoru students better than they were before the class? The only record that matters is the Big Ten. The out of conference is crap and means nothing. Lloyd won one more regular season game, but one of his losses was to a top tier Oregon team with a Heisman candidate oout of the Pac Ten. Lets look at Lloyds Big Ten record. Tell me in his years at UM when he had a LOSING record even once int he Big Ten. Anybody who wants to keep this fool around, deserves it. I will not provide another dime to the University athletic department as long as this fool is around. A cheater should never be rewarded.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:42 p.m.

Stanford 24-0 2nd qtr...they just kill teams

"We" not "Them"

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:41 p.m.

While posts like this are predictable amongst any fan base following a loss, I am SO thankful the decision to hire/fire RR lays in the hands of David Brandon and not up for a public vote (at least not the Ann Arbor.com public). I won't waste any time trying to prognosticate whether Brandon will or won't. Talk about if he should or not is the nature of the beast, but posters who claim any outcome as a foregone conclusion are fooling themselves. Rational people can draw different conclusions in this argument. I just hope that people remain consistent after the decision. Those who call RR bereft of ethics and intelligence will necessarily have to transfer that deduction to all of the powers that be at UM if he is retained. You will have to call both Brandon and Coleman "unethical", "unintelligent", and "embarrassments" to the university because, by that logic, how could any rational person come up with any other conclusion lest they be in on the conspiracy. I think it's too bad some people are so certain of their position and unwilling to think that anyone with any intelligence could conclude anything other than what they have concluded. For the record, I believe RR should be retained. I present Coack K of Duke (10-17,11-17), Gene Chizik of current #1 Auburn (3-9,2-10), and legendary Iowa coach Hayden Fry (5-6,4-7) as examples of coaching situations where the public tried to run them out of town because they started their tenure slowly, but thankfully there were administrators who knew more and could foresee a turn around that the public didn't. Am I saying RR will definitely win 9+ games next year? "No". Which of us can really proclaim to know (well, many people here do proclaim to know with certainty, but that's what discredits their anger when others proclaim something different). What I do believe is that the decision is in the right hands. I trust Brandon. I hope he retains RR, but only time will tell. Let the RR bashing continue.

garrison56

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:34 p.m.

That's right, Mo. Since a Google search suggests there's a "character issue" with Mallett, we were right to get rid of him, and rely on a natural tailback as our QB. Actually, DRob might not even have a future as a tailback. He can't take the punishment. Glad to hear you're not a Rodriguez Kool-Aid drinker. On that we can agree!

MjC

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:29 p.m.

That's ok boys don't be humble, we lost the game but we'll win the rumble (and our stadium is still bigger than their stadium)

BlueInBama

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:26 p.m.

I can't understand this seething hatred for Our King... it's disgusting and offense... STOP! Listen, Our King has this program on the right track.... even if we have to endure 5 more seasons like this, it will be worth it! All Hail King Rod

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:26 p.m.

I never worry about the head coach its the student athletes recruited by that coach I care about, this changing coaches every few year is not fair to them. When I hear so called fans call student athletes talent, I fear they believe this is just entertainment created for purpose of making them feel good about themselves, I always thought Michigan was different, maybe I am wrong.

TFR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:25 p.m.

OSU 37 - UofM 7.... well, at least it was close!!

Jeffrey

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:20 p.m.

I am not sure what to make of the program. Sure we have improved total record every year in RRs tenure, but at the same time I am truly frustrated with not being able to beat our rivals or the top teams in the B10. Under Bos regime at least I was only frustrated in our bowl game or every other year against OSU, (minus the John Cooper years). I am just not sure where we go from here. GO BLUE!!!

Blu-n-Tpa

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:19 p.m.

Ed Martin just called. Terrible mistake. He wanted Chi Chi Rodriguez to coach the GOLF team. Sorry for the confusion.

tzgoblue

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:11 p.m.

Mookienation You took up alot of space to say nothing that makes any sense. To start with a win of Notre Dame the past 2 yrs is not a signiture win by any stretch of imagination. We have not beaten a B10 team with a winning record the last 2 yrs. We have one win in 3 yrs against one of the better teams in the B10, Wisconsin in 2008, when they were young and average at best. Our players have not shown where they get better as the season progresses. Like an A2.com writter expressed, our players are no better on Nov 31st than they were on Oct 1st. The coaching in all phases of the game have been terrible. I'm tired of hearing RR say "I wish we would have played better", "we have so many young players", "our guys aren't big enough or fast enough". How about saying "we as coaches have not done a good job of coaching and preparing our players to be successful" or "we have not recruited the type of players that can compete in the B10". If Brandon doesn't stop this train wreck, then the alum that matter and the big doners should demand he be replaced as well. It is well documented that all the sports analysts and commentators and writers are talking about Michigan football as a joke and "program that used to be competitive" It is time this mess gets fixed, if we have to change directions with a new coach so be it, at least it will be with one that takes accountability for the results of his team and not one that wants to deflect blame everywhere else. His post game news conference today after the embarassement on the field was just as embarassing. "I'm ticked, what do you want me to do hold hands with the buckeye fans and sing kumbaya" what piece of work. Brandon has to understand how stupid this makes UM look.

Greggy_D

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:09 p.m.

Mo, it's pointless to debate this with you. 1. You stated "There were no recruits coming in". The recruiting rankings prove that statement is false. 2. Rich Rod did not take over a "rebuilding" program and the cupboard was not bare.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:08 p.m.

Mo the mistaken: Lloyd Carr the day he left, left the program and Rich Rod with 7 returning staters on Defense. At least 3 are currently on NFL rosters. Starting punter, also in the NFL. Starting QB, 4 starting OL, 2 RBs with starting experience, 2 starting WR and 1 starting TE. RR ran off some of the offensive guys...the defensive guys all stayed and were terrible in 08 under RRs staff. Please stop blaming Lloyd Carr. He left a very FULL cupboard, certainly more than most new coaches get to walk in to. It is sad to see you guys blaming Carr 3 years later.

stunhsif

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:06 p.m.

I hope and pray that Rich Rod is found fit to stay and play another day! Go Green Go White--With Much Delight

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 8:04 p.m.

Stanford 14 Oregon State 0 the game is on Versus network right now... Harbaugh says that they have 360 plays in their playbook...they are starting to roll now in this game. Impressive.

Mo the Educator

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:55 p.m.

Greggy and Blueman: Your recruiting list shows MY point exactly. Lloyd Carr took a team that had TWO top ten recruiting classes on it and won one more game their junior/senior year than RR did this season. They lost at home to Appalachian State. They all left for the pros by 2008, as most of the talented 2004 and 2005 recruits did in every other program in the country. RR comes in with a new scheme and bare cupboards... unless you think lesser lights such as Nick Sheridan, Steven Threet, Brandon Minor and Morgan Trent represent "high-level" talent. The reality is, Rich Rodriguez hasn't "driven the program into the ground". He's had two bad years and one mediocre one, just like any other coach taking over a rebuilding program - including our alleged savior over in Palo Alto. I have to say it repeatedly: I'm NOT a RR fan. I am, however, a realistic fan of Big Blue. We're a solid program that is close to getting back to national prominence. A new coach may ultimately be the answer, but not next year. Under our current coach, our record has improved each year, the school is paying him and his former employers a boatload of loot, and we have a $250 million stadium to pay for (in which we can't even play a prime time football game). Unless we get Petersen, there's no need to make a change.

Sallyxyz

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:49 p.m.

For those of you who feel sorry for RR when he gets the ax (maybe it was the posters on the other thread after seeing his tearful post-game interview), remember he is a millionaire and can retire tomorrow and live better than all of us combined on this board for the rest of his life, without working another day. Not bad for all the damage he has done to a terrific football program in 3 years. He had multi-million $$ contracts at WVA and UM, unfortunately. He's not worth a dime, in my view. Send him packing.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:38 p.m.

GAD!! Tebow won the Heisman the year we played them in the bowl game. We now have people discrediting our oppenent in Lloyd's last game to some how prop up this Hack. Unbelievable. I will never believe that had Lloyd stayed that the team would have won just 3 games that year. My gut tells me we'd have won 8 games that next year. Yes, you lost Henne, Hart, and Long to graduation, and Manningham was leaving for the money, but there was plenty of talent. If Lloyd or some one that wasn't an idiot coaches that team, Mallet, Boren, and Arrington are all there, paired up with Brown, Minor, and Grady in the backfield, and Matthews and Hemingway on the outside. The defense, while not great, had 7 returning starters and the O-line, w/Boren would have had 3 guys with starting experience. When you run off all the talent, you can't turn around and claim you had nothing to work with. That's called lying.

tulsatom

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:35 p.m.

The Good: Score after first quarter was 0-0. The way U-M was moving the ball and stopping OSU the first few times they had the ball actually had me hoping that U-M could hang with OSU. The Bad: Turnovers (fumbles) and too many dropped passes that were catchable, mainly by Roundtree. In big games against a rival, you're supposed to come with your A-game and Roundtree brought his C-game. Also, Denard, outside of a few good runs, was a non-factor. The Ugly: THe final score (37-7) plus Rich Rod's 3-year Big Ten record of 6-18. Parting Shot: If Harbaugh is available, hire him ASAP if he'll come to Ann Arbor. If not, hang on to RR one more year until Harbaugh becomes available.

girlhunter

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:35 p.m.

Rich.. it is time for you to move on.. and Michigan to get back where the "should" be! We as fans have been very patient.. but there have been no rewards.. it is so bad that I did not even buy tickets for my annual game! What a shame!

Greggy_D

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:33 p.m.

@The Fan "How many titles has MSU won? (conference or national titles)" Not sure what this has to do with the conversation, but I'll answer it. MSU has won 7 Big Ten Championships and 6 National Championships.

Sallyxyz

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:32 p.m.

MI in the Gator Bowl? Nada. Try the Insight Bowl, gang.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:26 p.m.

Greggy_D. Thank you. My point exactly.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:24 p.m.

Mallett just led Arkansas over Les Mile's LSU and most likely to a BCS berth. I rest my case, Mo.

The Fan

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:23 p.m.

How many titles has MSU won? (conference or national titles)

scott

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:15 p.m.

Florida will kill us if we play them, we will get out played and coached and get blown out.

Sallyxyz

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:12 p.m.

Gregg, RR never cared about Michigan traditions. He rolled into town 3 years ago, fired the entire football staff and proceeded to run a winning program into the ground. He doesn't have the ability to understand MI traditions and doesn't care to. His agenda from Day 1 has been his gimmicky offensive strategy, to h*ll with everything else. Clearly, that strategy hasn't worked and has embarrassed the UM in the media, with alumni, fans and donors. Cut your losses, DB, and get rid of this loser before he does any more damage.

mun

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:11 p.m.

If Dave Brandon wants to keep Rich Rod, then U-M should move to the Big East, where it'll win far more games.

Mo the Educator

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:08 p.m.

Blueman: The 2007-2008 program was imploding and in disarray. Players were graduating and jumping ship early, the team was divided on Lloyd Carr between those who wanted him gone and those who wanted him to stay, and there weren't any quality recruits who wanted any parts of that mess. The seniors rallied that team in order to beat Florida and a then-young Tebow to send out Lloyd on a high note, but again, that team won one more regular season game than this one, and had the worst loss in U of M history. As a matter of fact, look for the Wolverines to play Florida again (in the Gator Bowl this year), beat them, and go 8 - 5 for "their coach". And no, "Google" isn't a valid resource for assessing someone's character (I was mostly joking), but there are much more reputable ones talking about Mallett's "character issues". Maybe he stays in AA and is a model citizen, but I doubt it. I think the losses would have made him insufferable.

pama

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:07 p.m.

How soon we forget. Remember when rod left WV, we were told to forget it trolls, hillbillies, moonshiners. He who laughs last laughs best.lol We don't want him back. lol lol lol.

Greggy_D

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7:04 p.m.

@Mo "There were no recruits coming in" Bull. I am SO sick of hearing this. Rivals.com National recruiting rankings for Michigan: Carr's Years 2002 #16 2003 #17 2004 #5 2005 #6 2006 #13 2007 #12 Rich Rod's Years 2008 #10 2009 #8 2010 #20

theteamtheteamtheteam

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 7 p.m.

The headlines should read "OHIO STATE THUMPS MICHIGAN FOOTBALL TEAM AGAIN" so did PSU,MSU,IOWA,WISKY. Let's give RR a break. He's making a progess with Michigan football to be a BiG East contender. How embarrassing, and pathetic performance by our beloved "Wolverines". Maybe it's the punter fault cause he was suspended??? Another press conference on Monday yield to same excuses. It's a joke listening to to this clown(RR) everyweek. For RR to "win" in B10, he needs all seniors on the roster period.

Greg

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:58 p.m.

Rodriguez has never understood Michigan or it's traditions. Harbaugh grew up around it when his Dad was an assistant for Bo, he was the MVP of the team in '86 when he guaranteed a win over OSU and delivered, he KNOWS what Michigan is about. That's what we should have had in place before Carr retired, someone to carry on the Tradition. Rodriguez was never that guy, but we hoped it would work out.....it didn't.

Larry Weisenthal

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:57 p.m.

This is the best summary of the current state of affairs which I have yet read: http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2010/11/the_worst_fate_for_michigan_is.html

Sallyxyz

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:54 p.m.

I agree with the poster that said MI has no business playing in a bowl game with their third-rate performance and hack coach. I listened to several announcers on TV today during the UM-OSU game and other games speculate on RR's future, and most seemed to think he'll be gone, or at least they indicated that was likely. I hope it was more than wishful thinking. DB has an easy decision. Do it now, don't wait, pizza king. Or, if Brandon doesn't do it this week, then ship him back to his cardboard pizza empire. Ship RR anywhere out of the state of MI. Does anyone think he'll resign instead of wait to be fired? No such luck, most likely. Let's hope DB does his job.

mookienation

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:49 p.m.

If you're referring to the article I posted, just scroll up the page a little bit for my argument. I wasn't using the article because I couldn't come up with anything myself. I just wanted to share it.

H.

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:47 p.m.

As an MSU grad, I find it funny how most fans on the AA.com blog want RR sent out on a rail, while the rabid listens on the Detroit talk sports radio programs defend him day after day, saying he needs more time. Why is everyone so sure Harbaugh is the answer. He may be, but a lot of bad teams in the NFL will also be throwing a lot of money his way. I do not think he will sign on the dotted line to the new A.D. unless: (a) he knows what his options are; or (b) Michigan is his ultimate job. All I can say is this, if your new A.D. doesn't get this hire right, Michigan football will (brace yourselves) become irrelevant like Notre Dame. Names and glory days don't mean jack with five/four star recruits when you havent won anything relevant in 5-10 years. Case in point, your basketball team. It is making baby steps, but the revolving door with your previous coaches left a black eye on the program, and your 'name' isn't bringing the blue chippers to Ann Arbor.

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:44 p.m.

I see some are making excuses for the next coach before he even arrives, seems a little premature.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:35 p.m.

Rebuilding program? Is that what we had when RR came here? If so, how much more "damage" could Mallett have possibly done, Mo? Can't see relying on Google to support character assessments either.

snoopjane

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:33 p.m.

And what's the deal with Robinson getting hurt all the time. Is he going to turn out to be another Stafford?

Sallyxyz

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:30 p.m.

Falconiero: Well said.

Macabre Sunset

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:30 p.m.

In the five losses (against the better defenses in the Big Ten), Michigan averaged just under seven points in the first half. That's what led to a third straight non-competitive Big Ten season. The gimmick just doesn't work in an elite conference. And Rodriguez doesn't care about defense. It shows. Brandon has an easy decision here. Hopefully it won't be too difficult to attract a good coach.

snoopjane

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:27 p.m.

And while we are at it... maybe we could get someone who could kick a fieldgoal

ShadowManager

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:26 p.m.

Looks like Michigan has something in common with MSU this year after all: They didn't play Ohio State either.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:26 p.m.

I see some here think the pitiful shape that RichRod has left the Michigan program in is NOT relevant.

Mo the Educator

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:23 p.m.

Re: Ryan Mallett You know there just might be a problem when Google suggests "Ryan Mallett character issues" as you search his name. That kind of person can do some serious damage to a rebuilding program, which was what we were left with when Lloyd Carr "retired". It's funny how our memories get real short and we long for the "good old days", when the reality is that everyone then was calling for Carr's head too. You think a team losing all of that NFL caliber talent in one year was going to go 9 - 4 with a different coach!??! WHO?!? HOW!?? People are clowning the schools we've beaten this year, but I dare you to compare FCS Appalachian State to any of them, and justify the #5 team in DI football losing to them. Like mookienation, I'm often embarrassed to publicly say I'm a Michigan fan too. Our expectations are unrealistic, we emote instead of cogitate, and we believe that competing for a mythical National Championship every year is our birthright. The reality is, the Miamis, the Floridas, Florida States, the USCs, and the Nebraskas of the world have had title runs and better programs than ours for about 30 years. Our "title run" was in the earlier part of the previous century, years before the second "Great War". Yet and still, we believe that we have the greatest football program in the country to which every HS football star wants to go. False. We can be, but hiring our third coach in four years to run yet another offensive and defensive scheme is shortsighted. To be clear: it's not about my love for RR - I don't really like the guy. But I can accept the fact that you really have to keep him on as HC at least for another year for both financial reasons and for the sake of the program and the kids currently there. And again: I am willing, as a fan, to see Rodriguez go if we could land Chris Petersen. I don't care about RR, but I'm a Peterson mark!

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:18 p.m.

So much for RR's genius when his offense ranks at the bottom of the Big Ten in Turnovers all 3 years of his error. Is that Harbaugh or Lloyds fault too?

XTR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:12 p.m.

I like the RR loyalists. They identified RR with Michigan that even other Michigan Men will be attacked to defend RR. lol! I cannot see a single reason why RR should stay regardless of who is the replacement. RR is just horrible on and off the field, a total failure everywhere. Sorry to say but it is RR's fault all along. His teams reflected his coaching prowess. A 7-5 with those 5 loses being hard nosed close losses against the big boys is acceptable for another year but those 5 loses were biiiiiggggg loses! Absolutely NO chance next year with RR.

Huron_River

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:07 p.m.

What is the chance of beating Ohio State next year 1) If RR stays 2) If a new HC comes in? Not much difference. What is the change of beating Ohio State in 2012 1) If RR stays 2) If a new HC comes in? Likely higher for 2)

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:06 p.m.

How many "top-ten" recruiting classes does Wisconsin have? Not many I would be willing to bet. Wisc has good coaching and they find players who fit their philosophy for success in the Big 10. What is UM philosophy? Will it work in the Big 10? does not appear that it will. Let us see how long Brandon is willing to wait to find out.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:04 p.m.

Again I ask wearily. Why waste another year with RR?

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:04 p.m.

I see some think the shape the Stanford program was left in before Jim Haraugh got there has some kind of importance.

missionbrazil

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:04 p.m.

the KoolAid argument that RR's offense is the best and that he is a genius is a myth. After we beat Indiana our offense has struggled against the better teams. It has not looked like a well coached offense, with so many penalties, turnovers, and failure to execute. Wisconsin as of halftime today has scored 499 points this year, UM 412.

Greggy_D

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:01 p.m.

Mitch, was this yet another "manageable loss"?

lawrencelaundry

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6:01 p.m.

Kubrick and 3and out let's celebrate when RR is canned and Harbaugh is announced. No excuse for barely beating IU, purdue, and Ill. Ugly ugly wins. Including ND. Harbaugh with these players will be mopping the floor in the big ten with just better coaching. Harbaugh to restore order in Ann Arbor. Whoop whoop!!!

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 6 p.m.

Just watched a clip of the RR post game press conference. Pathetic. Without a doubt, it leaves the impression that the RR era is over. Expect an announcement very soon.

mookienation

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:57 p.m.

"It might be time for a change in Ann Arbor, but only under certain circumstances. A 37-7 beatdown (RECAP | BOX) in Columbus proved the gulf between Ohio State and Michigan remains wide, and while the Wolverines got better in Coach Rich Rodriguez's third year, they didn't improve significantly. So is it time for Michigan to jettison Rodriguez? Maybe. If Michigan has assurances it can make a slam-dunk hire -- I'm thinking of a certain former Wolverines quarterback who works in Palo Alto -- then athletic director Dave Brandon should make a move. Jim Harbaugh has taken Stanford from 1-11 to the top 10, so the adjustment period required after Michigan scraps the offense most of its players were recruited to run would be acceptable. If Michigan officials can't get a guarantee that they can land an A-plus coach, they should stick with Rodriguez, fire coordinator Greg Robinson and overhaul the defense. Michigan's offense kept it in games this season, but the defense was historically abysmal. If the offense only remains at its current level and the defense improves to fair-to-middling, the Wolverines can win nine games next year. If the defense climbs to above-average, Michigan might actually compete for a Big Ten title. I know Michigan fans are fed up with the drama surrounding Rodriguez. They're also fed up with losing -- especially to Ohio State. But this isn't the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater unless the Wolverines can land a man who already has his own custom bathroom." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/andy_staples/11/27/week-13-snap-judgments/

Macabre Sunset

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:55 p.m.

This is the Rodriguez gimmick offense. It punishes mediocre teams. And when it goes up against decent Big Ten defenses, it's inconsistent. That's why we were in trouble at halftime in the four toughest games. This is also the first defense in Michigan history to give up 400 points. Two years after Rodriguez became the first to give up 300. Michigan is not improving under the clown coach. I only hope Brandon has the intelligence and the fortitude to make the right decision.

15crown00

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:54 p.m.

the only good that happens because of this is Rich Rod is one step close to getting out of town. SEVEN loses in a row to OSU.How about that Blue Brains?

missionbrazil

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:52 p.m.

$ 6,000,000 RR salary for 3 years $ 4,000,000 buyout from WV $10,000,000 total for these 3 years of misery = $1.4+ million per Big Ten win in 3 years. What a joke.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:52 p.m.

Angel. I totally disagree that firing RR will hurt our recruiting. I see it exactly the other way around. Whether or not our next HC is Harbaugh, making a change will show potential recruits that Michigan's days of infamy are ending.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:49 p.m.

will this be the first AA article to get to 200+ comments? lol

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:48 p.m.

RR's defensive recruiting has been pathetic from Day 1. He recruited kids too small or too slow, and kids that did not qualify due to academics or transferred out. There were 7 returning starters on the 08 team including at least 3 (Graham, Trent and Brown) that play in the NFL... and RRs guys destroyed that defense and have made it worse every year.

bossfan23

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:46 p.m.

To the (few) RichRod supporters, I would pose this question: How is it possible that in the twelth week of his third season, we still can't: punt, kick a field goal, block, tackle, catch, avoid penalties, etc. He is nothing more than an offensive coordinator posing as a head coach. The time to end this charade has come. In fact, considering how close Columbus is to West Virginia, I would have just handed him a bus ticket back there after the game and saved some money. Just as John Cooper was let at go years ago at OSU for his inability to beat Michigan, RichRod should be sent packing immediately for the very same reason. With no signature wins in three seasons and a winless record against the upper half of the Big Ten, Rodriguez has shown us what he is: over-rated and overpaid! More seasons will only be a continuation of what we have seen. Buy him out, ship him out, and start over!

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:45 p.m.

goblueinPA... nice casino analogy regarding the stats...i like it... azwolv...thanks for the compliments on 3AndOutGirl

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:44 p.m.

Yes. GoblueNE: Coaching 101: Play the system that fits the talents of the players on your roster.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:42 p.m.

correction...actually it was 2-6 1-7 3-5 in that order...so much for the improvement argument

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:42 p.m.

1-7 2-6 3-5 Bottom of the Big Ten all 3 years. Some people live in a bubble and write poems by dipping their pens in koolaid and writing the poems on imaginary scrolls.

Poally Dog

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:41 p.m.

One prob - payout to RR is 3.X million if fired now and 1.X million if fired Jan. 1 That's a couple million reasons to keep him around another 30 days or so. And...ya gotta respect that JH will want to coach Stanford through his BCS bowl game.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:41 p.m.

I love it when people take disconnected data points and try to see a pattern. It's like going to a casino and betting the roulette wheel based upon what the previous spins were. The ridiculous idea that we'll magically go 9-3 next season because we've went 3-9, 5-7, and now 7-5 is laughable. It's also ridiculous for folks to assert that hiring a new coach means we start over. That's only w/RichRod and coaches like him that can't be flexible in matching their coaching to their talent. A good coach works with what's he got and wins with it. Besides which, have you even watched a Stanford game? They run a version of the spread, like a LOT of teams in Div 1. The difference is, they don't run the QB killer version that the Hack does.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:40 p.m.

Mookie: It's insulting and pure fantasy to say that RR went 3-9 his first year because he had a roster of pure garbage. I assume you're referring to Mallett and Threet? He went 3-9 because he arrogantly forced the spread system on athletes recruited and trained to play the pro set. Coaching 101: Play the system that fits the talents of the players on your roster. This disaster is of his own making. Get it?

johnnya2

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:40 p.m.

"In this his fourth year Jim Harbaughs defense allowed Oregons offense to put up 52 points on Stanford this year." You want the most important number 10-1 for Stanford, UM 7-5. Rich Rod gave up 65 to ILLINOIS, Harbaugh lost to the #1 team and offense in the nation. Rich Rod is not even a top 3 OFFENSE (his specialty) in the Big Ten. Just a point of fact, Wisconsin has 49 FIRST half points.

azwolverine

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:40 p.m.

kubrick, I agree that although Brandon has a plan in place, none of us truly knows what that plan is. 3andOut...like your new photo.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:39 p.m.

Johnnie A2... Stanford was 1-11 and had not had a winning season for 5 years before Harbs got there. Michigan was 9-4 with a bowl win over the defending NCs and had not had a losing season in 40 years, before Rich Rod tore it down. This Sam Webb Logic is terrible...there is no comparison and btw...why do the Koolaiders feel that there needs to be??? RR failed and he is terrible, pure and simple. 37-7

azwolverine

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:37 p.m.

mookie, the problem with your logic is that we have two arch rivals: MSU and OSU. We did FAR WORSE against both of them this year. We scored a COMBINED 24 points against them while giving up 71. That's an average score of 35-12. Couple that with the fact that we've only scored 24 points in three years combined against the Buckeyes, and our 'potent' offense doesn't look like it will ever be geared to top our chief rival. Three years is not a lot of time, granted, but it is enough time to see some signs that we are ready to compete against our rivals. Instead, we are seeing the opposite.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:37 p.m.

Rich Rodriguez - 0-12 vs. teams that have a winning record in the Big Ten. 0-9 vs. OSU, PSU, MSU. 6-18 in Big Ten play and will finish no higher than 7th place or WORSE every year. Worse 3 defenses in school history. Blow out losses almost every week vs. good teams. And some people hanging by their nails will try to defame possible replacements...why? is it fear? we have nothing to lose with canning Rodriguez... and you'd better Believe that Brandon knows this team is terrible and that if he brings Rodriguez back then his butt will be on the line too. 37-7

heartbreakM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:34 p.m.

I keep hearing "inexperience", "Offense is way better than before", "not his recruits". I don't know what "inexperience" means. Is M the only team in DivI who has so many frosh playing? Are we the only team that has lost gads of its athletes? Each college team has turnover, and injuries, and it is RR's job to have all levels of players ready to play and blend. What dominant offense? I see against any top half B10 team that we either did not score in the first half or scored a meager amount. That is not good offense. That is horrible offense. "Not HIs guys" doesn't hold water. Any coach coming into another team inherits players. They are all his players. Had RR kept more asst coaches from prior team who had some connection to these recruits and players, he may have related better to them and understood the "M" way. But RR is too hardheaded to know what is best. And he has given us unprecedented bad football by doing that.

johnnya2

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:33 p.m.

@jameslucas You fail to look at the yeear before Stanford 2-9 Jimmy H IMPROVED upon what he had. Michigan 9-4 Rich Rod won SIX fewer games in one year.

Terrin

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

Falconiero: Brandon received a Bachelor of Arts degree in communications from U-M in 1974, and was a member of three Big Ten Championship football teams under Coach Bo Schembechler. Just saying, the guy is more then a ex-CEO of a pizza company. He knows Michigan football and was around it when it was at it's best. He certainly gets the OSU rivalry.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

One more time for the record: The comparison of Harbaugh at Stanford and Rodriguez at U of M is ridiculous and sophomoric. Hyperbole. Nothing more.

loco123

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

"We've went from 3-9 to 5-7 to 7-5 (maybe 8-5). According to this pattern, we should have a 9-3 team next year" Then in 3 years we'll be 13-0 in the regular season?? One problem with this season's wins is that the Big 10 teams we've beaten have a combined Big 10 record of 7-17. We are getting better at beating D2 schools though. Thumbs up for that in year 3 of collecting $2 million/year.

garrison56

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:31 p.m.

XTR- It's gimmick offense. And keeping it will kill DRob before his career is over. He's showing fragility already as a sophomore. It won't get better.

Kubrick66

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:30 p.m.

GoblueinNE_PA... I agree that Brandon already has a plan. I'm just not convinced either way what that plan is.

XTR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:28 p.m.

There are still supporters?! LOL! RR dragged the program to ground on and out of the field and then you guys want him back to drag the program down again! LOL! Lovers of suffering! LOL! The offense was a "dud" and that showed as early as the MSU game! LOL! Everytime RR's team went against a good team, his offense sputtered! That high scoring offense is a DUD! LOL!

marlon glenn

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:25 p.m.

Falconiero.... Great comments. You don't need big names to be successful. You need quality people.

heartbreakM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:25 p.m.

@mookienation: You say that RR is not an idiot. You are right. He only coaches like one. :)

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:24 p.m.

@Angel, I wasn't commenting on your post. However, if you think this group of coaches is going to "suddenly get smart" and coach up these player, you're fooling yourself. Time to flush the toilet and start over.

garrison56

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:23 p.m.

Terrin Bell-- You are right on. And let me also add another name to the discussion: Ryan Mallett.

mookienation

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:21 p.m.

Sometimes I have a hard time admitting I'm a Michigan fan. And it's not because of anything the team or coach is or isn't doing. It's because the majority of Michigan fans are absolutely ridiculous. Rich Rod went 3-9 during his first year with absolute garbage for a team. None of those players were his. Bill Belichick would have lost nine games with those players. In his second season, Rich Rod improved to 5-7 and finally got a "signature" win against Notre Dame. Tate Forcier played hurt throughout the entire conference schedule and Denard Robinson had not yet developed into what he would eventually become in 2010. Losses against MSU, Iowa, and Purdue were close and could have went either way. Even at 5-7, this team showed dramatic improvement over the 2008 team, especially when they were healthy. This season we finished 7-5. He's tacking on two extra wins per season. We beat Notre Dame and Uconn. We beat Illinois and Purdue; two teams that Rodriguez had yet to beat prior to this season. Jim Harbaugh isn't the guaranteed answer. We need to be patient with the system we have. We SHOULD be much better next year. There is no reason to think otherwise. We've went from 3-9 to 5-7 to 7-5 (maybe 8-5). According to this pattern, we should have a 9-3 team next year. In 2012 we should be back on the national scene competing for a Big Ten title and a BCS bowl. To dispute this is to let your emotions get in the way and it seems like that's what everyone is doing right now. Rich Rodriguez is not an idiot. If we give him a couple more seasons we will all be glad we did. If we go out and hire Jim Harbaugh or some other pro-style coach, we're going to have another 3-4 year period of system rebuilding and growing pains. Despite our past two games, I'm actually pleased with the improvement I've seen this year. We still aren't up to Michigan standards but we will be. Just give Rodriguez two more recruiting classes. He still has juniors and seniors that aren't his guys. This team is very young and WILL improve, on both sides of the ball. Rich Rod in 2011!

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:20 p.m.

Lane Kiffin is the only coach that has exceeded Jim Haraugh in ridicules and sophomoric statements, but given the same time Im sure Jim will catch up.

Terrin

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:20 p.m.

James Lucas: Not sure what your point is. I do not know if Harbaugh would be a good fit for Michigan or not. However, comparing those statistics means nothing. The difference is Stanford had a history of losing real bad BEFORE Harbaugh came to town. Michigan had a history of winning before RR came to town. MIchigan's record was 9-4 the year before RR came to town as opposed to Stanford's record of 1-11. Michigan didn't need any big corrections. Further, contrary to believe, the cupboard was not bare until RR scared away Michigan's players by coming in with a heavy hand forcing a system on players that Michigan didn't have the talent to support.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:17 p.m.

Unfortunately, the person who is getting off rather lightly in the current debacle is Bill Martin. Bill deserves a damn good whacking for the mess he's made.

OSUbeBetter

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:16 p.m.

Wow, 100 comments in one hour? You guys must really be "Ticked" :D

Mo the Educator

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:14 p.m.

"The Harbaugh vs. Rodriguez comparison is ridiculous and sophomoric. In 2006, Stanford was 1-11 and U of M was 8-4. Simply put, Harbaugh's tenure started at the bottom while RR's tenure has ended at the bottom. Cease. Desist." That last Carr-lead Michigan team, which won one more regular season game than this years' Wolverines, managed the most embarrassing loss in school history, had seniors graduate who never beat OSU, and got smashed regularly in Bowl games. There were no recruits coming in, and our offensive line complained that other teams were calling out our plays as soon as they came set. Jim Harbaugh, Les Miles, Jesus Christ, Muhammad... whoever coached that team inherited a 3-win program. I'm no great fan of RR, but we measure improvement in wins. Period. If we have the #1 ranked O, D, and special teams in the country and go 8 - 4, then that isn't good enough for me. With the personnel we have now (and a new D coordinator) we are a 9 or 10 win team next year. Harbaugh wins maybe 4 games. Les "Forrest Gump" Miles, whose talent overcomes his moronic coaching decisions, wins 3 maximum. I'm willing to take another step back though, if for some ridiculous reason we could pry Chris Petersen out of Idaho to come to Ann Arbor....

Killroy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:14 p.m.

@ ShadowManager, is that the same as Palin's death panel. I have never seen such a bad team.

mahfocker

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:13 p.m.

Win- I wouldnt mind Chris Peterson one bit!! His team has always been very well coached and fundamentaly sound.

heartbreakM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:12 p.m.

Hey "Fan" Let's consider Bellotti. He was the coach when Oregon did come to its current excellence. It's clear that RR has been a bad fit from day one and it just gets worse.

XTR

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:11 p.m.

C'mon guys you all are so negative! Can't you get it? Rich Rod is doing a good job, he just needs more time to get his players and for his players to get his schemes! We are improving on all aspects of the game it is just that we have lots of injuries and freshmen on the team right now. Next year we will improve our defense and special teams and our offense which score a lot of points will be ranked top in the country with Denard in the Heisman award, we have the top RB next year and will help our team win the Big 10. In 2012 when Denard is a senior, we will run for the National championship!!! So you guys who think negatively and does not support RR and his staff are NOT REAL Michigan fans!!! LOL!!!

Falconiero

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:05 p.m.

I think our football woes are signs of a much larger problem at Michigan. Our University is suffering from a total lack of leadership and integrity at every level, from the President on down. The CEO of Domino's, the undisputed King of Cardboard, is our athletic coach?... Really? I would never associate Domino's with "quality" anything, and certainly would not expect him of all people to build a quality athletic department built on tradition and integrity. The University of Michigan has been overrun with corporate thugs, looking to profit off our students and our tradition.... Rich Rodriguez is the public manifestation of the greed, arrogance, incompetence, and usury which thrives in Ann Arbor today.

aftermac

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:02 p.m.

Angel, actually Lloyd Carr averaged 9.4 wins per season. In 13 years he had one 7 win season, two 8 win seasons, four 9 win seasons, four 10 win seasons, one 11 win season, and one 12 win season. It also amazes me how many people can't spell the word "whine".

Angel

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 5:01 p.m.

@ GoblueinNE_PA... my point is that all this negativity is bad to the University, especially recruiting... another firing would be worse than leaving RR w/ the majority of the starters coming back, something that hasn't happened in his teure... He deserves that much... look at what happened at ND, they fire cunningham one year early, then weiss looks like a genius w/ cunningham's players, then they have to fire him too... can't be changing systems like that. The Big Ten in general hasn't been significant except for that Rose Bowl win by OSU last year, and they've supposedly had great teams all these years. Obviously this is just my opinion, and at the end I'm nobody when it comes to the decision Brandon will make. In reality none of us are, so instead of bashing the University w/ all this negativity we should be positive and think about what we have coming in next year. Btw, the only reason our recruiting class is not that highly ranked is because we only have 13 commits so far, and of course this will change.

aarox

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:58 p.m.

ESPN summed this game up accurately: "Buckeyes MAUL Michigan for 7th straight win over rival"" "COLUMBUS, Ohio -- "The Game" is getting awfully one-sided" "It was over when... The Ohio State players, decked out in bright scarlet helmets and shoes, sprinted into the Horseshoe."

win

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:55 p.m.

announcement will be made, but it will not be Harbaugh. He doesn't want the job!! Chris Peterspn from Boise State is coming to Michigan.

annarbortownie

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:55 p.m.

Too bad some accountability for TERRIBLE choices was not built into the RR contract. Then we could have RichMartin help buy out the RichRod contract and get rid of him. No wonder they have to charge so much for tickets! They have to bail out the bad hiring choice of Bill Martin. Bye Bye RichRod The clock is ticking... tick tock tick tock

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:55 p.m.

In this his fourth year Jim Harbaughs defense allowed Oregons offense to put up 52 points on Stanford this year.

NoBowl4Blue

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:54 p.m.

Olde to Theo and Tater: Where is the singing Theo and Tater? You call critics of your king haters. Yet those who think much different than you, have opinions that are on target regarding the Blue. However you still will want to cling, to the one you call your king, even after being taken to school. it seems to confirm you two are a fool.

aareader

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:51 p.m.

The defense did play to their potential. They are young, did do some good stuff and never quit! IF the Offense could be consistent with caught passes, no fumbles, and kicking game it could have been a much closer game. Sadly the offense is supposed to RR's speciality. Sooo what to do? There does need to be an announcement about where Blue is going very soon.

superbuck

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:49 p.m.

The Uof M just passed my house on 23 in Waldo with State Trooper Escort I think they should have had RR in a manure spreader pulled by an old Farmall. Just as long as they don't leave him in OH-IO he really stunk up michigan. See you next year GO BUCKS

chapmaja

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:47 p.m.

I have defended RR a lot because of what appeared to be improvement. The improvement has stopped and the team is showing it's regression. I am sure of a couple things if Michigan fires RR. The next coach (Maybe Harbaugh but I'm not betting on it) will continue to use Denard but will establish a more traditional style offense for him to work out of, and the defense will get a heck of a lot better. Denard is a good QB, but runs too much. That is because Michigan lacks the running game around him. Denard's injuries are a result of running 20 plus times per game. Denard will be a more dangerous weapon if you have RB's in the backfield with him that actually can run, and he becomes used more sparingly as a running back and more as a threat. He will also stay healthier if he isn't running for his life so much. I don't think there is a potential future coach at UofM that wouldn't love to get a chance to coach Denard. He is that talented, but he needs the players around him to show what he really can do. In some ways he reminds me of Michael Vick. Vick has looked so much better now because he can play the QB position, not just be a running back at the QB position. Denard is the same way, he can be a good throwing QB that is dangerous if he chooses to run. He can't survive as a QB who is also the primary running back for the team.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:44 p.m.

The Harbaugh vs. Rodriguez comparison is ridiculous and sophomoric. In 2006, Stanford was 1-11 and U of M was 8-4. Simply put, Harbaugh's tenure started at the bottom while RR's tenure has ended at the bottom. Cease. Desist.

WVCrone

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:43 p.m.

well Rodriguez...do you believe in Karma??? What goes round..comes around, don't it!! haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

troy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:42 p.m.

RR definatel has to go. I just dont know who to replacehim with.

musthaved

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:39 p.m.

HC Robbie Caldwell resigned at Vanderbilt after less than 1 full year because the program wasn't moving in the right direction. They were 2-9. What direction is this program moving in? Has anyone ever seen a major college team that couldn't kick a field goal or get a kick off inside the 10? Has anyone seen a program win consistently with a 3-3-5 defense that typically rushes 3 people?

GoblueBeatOSU

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:39 p.m.

Lets be honest. U of M doesn't have a defense, doesn't have a kicking game and doesn't have an offense (based on today). When you are missing those three components you have to agree that U of M doesn't have a Division I football program. Time for a change. With this coach maybe U of M should play in the GLIAC. Oh wait, that isn't going to work. Grand Valley State would destroy U of M. Speaking of change, time to turn our attention to hockey where U of M can compete. U of M is 2nd in the CCHA standings and ranked 8th in the country. The Big OSU games are Dec 3rd and 4th. Maybe we'll see a real game then. Dump the football team, go with hockey.

saginaw

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:39 p.m.

RR against B10 foes: 0 - 3 vs OSU 0 - 3 vs MSU 0 - 3 vs PSU 0 - 2 vs Iowa 1 - 2 vs Wisconsin How did this happen? -- one good win. 0 - 1 vs Northwestern 1 - 2 vs Illinios Thank you 67 - 65 OT win. 1 - 2 vs Purdue 1 - 0 vs Minnesota 2 - 0 vs Indiana B10 Wins = 6 in three years: 2 against Indiana 1 against Purdue 1 againts Wisconsin 1 against Minnesota 1 against Illinios

loco123

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:38 p.m.

RR has never beaten a Big 10 team that has a winning record in the conference. In light of UM being the winningest program in college football, what's the reason to give him another year???

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:38 p.m.

Whether or not Harbaugh may or may not be the next HC @ UM, the fact remains that RR clearly should not continue as the HC.

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:37 p.m.

Stanford Head Football Coach Jim Harbaugh 2007 1st Year 4-8 2008 2nd Year 5-7 2009 3rd Year 8-5 Michigan Head Football Coach Rich Rodriguez 2008 1st Year 3-9 2009 2nd Year 5-7 2010 3rd Year 8-5

The Fan

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:36 p.m.

Mike Bellotti for Michigan coach!

BUCKSownUofM

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:36 p.m.

Again, it's time for a Michigan university to hire another Ohio native to bail them out.

M86

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:35 p.m.

If defense wins championships then what has this coach been doing the last three years with defensive recruiting? How can we still be playing so many freshmen? I don't buy that garbage about injuries. All teams have injuries. We are just too small and getting hammered and ultimately beat up. Don't keep bringing in these little 5'9" 175 pound running backs in. My junior high school football team had bigger runnung backs. This football team is not going in the right direction. Rodriguez does not appear to respect or understand the traditions of Michigan football. Time to move on.....

zip the cat

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:33 p.m.

Too bad the "big tuna" parcells only works in the pros. Harbaugh,now thats a real pipe dream.

glimmertwin

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:32 p.m.

Humiliating. What a terrible, terrible football team.

The OSU

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:28 p.m.

"Point-a-minute offense": NOT Defense: NOT Kicking game / special teams: VERY NOT To those who want RR gone, the Buckeyes have done our part!

ShadowManager

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:28 p.m.

Mike Hart is available for Grief Counseling...

Blu-n-Tpa

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:25 p.m.

Carl, I wear my Michigan stuff proudly where ever I go. It's more than one or even three years of bad football. It's the University and the people who care about it. I feel bad for a team that didn't have much of a chance because of leadership. If that changes then I won't have to read fake emotional messages from an assistant greens keeper.

Billy Joe

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:22 p.m.

Michigan should not be invited to a bowl game. They are a sub-par, way below average football team who can only beat teams who are just as terrible as they are. You dont go 5-0 and then finish the season 2-5 and say we deserve to go to a bowl game. They have embarrassed themselves enough in college football and on national TV. Don't disgrace the program further. Get a new coach and recruit some talented defensive players...then you will be on the right track. As of now...Michigan would be lucky if they could be beat a talented High School football team. Lick your wounds and start again next year. And tell Rogriguez to start packing, it's time to go.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:22 p.m.

I attended the 1977 UM victory over OSU, 14-6, at the Big House. I recall the excitement of an entire season and the Big Championship being on the line. Fantastic. Today? Bored and wondering how bad we were going to get throttled... Badly.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:21 p.m.

And RichRod has never beaten MSU or OSU. So what's your point?

Angel

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:21 p.m.

We shouldn't be blaming RR for these losses to the buckeyes... after all, Carr did lose the previous 4 times, and we lost to Appalachian state playing "Michigan football"... there have been a combination of things happening here, mostly recruiting wise along w/ transfers and a ridiculous amount of injuries... I think the lack of improvement on D and special teams is significant and changes do need to be made in those areas... if RR won't get new coaches in those areas, then he should be fired... We need to remember how we were winning an average of 8 games per year w/ Carr but would also lose on the big games. We haven't been significant in a while, even in the old regime.

M86

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:20 p.m.

This is not a very good football team. Poorly coached in all three phases of the game. The offense goes no where without Drob, dropped passes, penalties, etc. Specialty teams are horrible with the exception of kick off returns... and they are just average. Defense again and again comes up short. After three years one would expect more discipline and focus. This team does not appear to be any more improved than the team from three years ago. I'm sorry. I've given coach Rod the benefit of the doubt and have tried to be supportive, but enough is enough. I have been a season ticket holder for over thirty years and will not renew next year if there is not a change made with the head football coach, not just the defensive coordinator.

jameslucas

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

Jim Harbaugh has never won a bowl game.

OSUbeBetter

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

ooh and remember, Ohio State (Classy) did take a knee on second down from the Michigan 7 to end the game.

ohiowolverine

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

I myself kept saying give him one more year but after today I say fire him now. The wolverines couldn't play any worse in their bowl game without a coach than what they do with one.

rellez

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

The only headline I want to read tomorrow is; "Press conference called for 12:00 on Monday". I certainly hope they have been working behind the scenes to get a Harbaugh deal done. When they call for a press conf. on Monday, you know it is over for RR. Let Jackson coach the bowl game. He deserves it after putting up with this crap for the past three years.

Chris

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:16 p.m.

Sad,Sick and disgusting. This team is terrible.there's no talent anywhere the kicking is a disgrace.the defense is horrible.I've had enough of watching this freak show.It's to move on in a new direction with a new coach.

BigWolverine13

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:16 p.m.

Blueman Rick Posted 1 minute ago "Exactly BigWolv13. That was my first criticism of RR. Why force your system on a team with a different skill set? You play the system that brings out the best skills inherent in the players you have on the roster. Coaching 101. RR's downfall and inability to substantially improve the team is a result of his trying to establish himself as an offensive genius. His arrogance has destroyed the UM program for the foreseeable future." When he first came on the scene and the defections started because they didn't fit his system, I cringed, but hoped for the best. I was willing to compromise my opinion that a good coach goes with what he's got. Mallet and many others were a huge loss. Brandon can't wait until the bowl game; the time is now!

phil

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:15 p.m.

Losing, cheating, what a blow to UM tradition...please, Dave, try to restore some dignity to the program-I'm getting to the point where I DVR games & fast forward through the beatings...

scooter dog

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:14 p.m.

He has a contract and like it or not they will honor it. WA WA WA

JJones

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:12 p.m.

RichRod needs to go. Along with his HORRIBLE defense coordinater, Greg Robinson. Why would he be ANY better with Michigan? He has always been a bad coach(Robinson). I hope we get Jim Harbaugh. Michigan football has become an embarassment.

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:12 p.m.

Quick Stat o' The Day: Vs. Wisconsin and OSU we were outscored by 50 points -- 85 to 35... and a lot of those 35 came in Garbage Time after getting way behind vs. Wisconsin. Wow.

blue82

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:10 p.m.

This isn't even fun for the buckeye fans. There is no rivalry anymore,no thought of they will make a comeback. I am glad I saw the rivalry during its peek. Its so bad I took a nap during the second half. One good thing though is my 1997 autographed helmet by the national championship team just keeps going up in value for the antique road show. Good by yesteryear it was good while it lasted.

2sweetblue

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:09 p.m.

But guys look at his amazing offense........... LOL!!!! I mean 7 freaking points. What a joke time to move on the offense will never win a Big Ten championship!!!

salineboy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:09 p.m.

Scooter - You must be a Buckeye. I'm sure they all want RR to stay!

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:08 p.m.

Exactly BigWolv13. That was my first criticism of RR. Why force your system on a team with a different skill set? You play the system that brings out the best skills inherent in the players you have on the roster. Coaching 101. RR's downfall and inability to substantially improve the team is a result of his trying to establish himself as an offensive genius. His arrogance has destroyed the UM program for the foreseeable future.

aarox

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:08 p.m.

Most of you know I took OSU and gave the 17 points. I had my $$ by halftime. Not that I enjoyed it but it was a small consolation for being a LOSER!

BigWolverine13

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:07 p.m.

"scooter dog Posted 31 minutes ago I am sure all the winers and armchair quaterbacks will have a field day with the loss." Is there a point here?

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:07 p.m.

not even any garbage time yards in this game for the koolaiders to point to

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:07 p.m.

I wonder how much poetry we'll see today?

Bill

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:07 p.m.

What a slow, 3 year, spiraling death to Michigan Football. Sign Jim Harbaugh now, Brandon; save this proud tradional program from anymore embarassment!!

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:05 p.m.

@Kubrick I disagree with you. Brandon is a business man, you don't make major changes like this unless you already have the next steps worked out. I think Brandon will either have a deal made or will be very close on whomever is the next HC before he pulls the trigger on RichRod. He'll not want to go through the Martin debacle all over again.

salineboy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:04 p.m.

Hey Scooter - All the "Crybabies" want is a return to Michigan football (Winning). Rodriguez will never take us there.

sam

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

i hate that we lost but if this brings about a change then so be it.i do believe if he comes back they will be much improved next year but i am convinced that we need to go in a different direction.too many dropped balls today and i really believe the coaching staff didn't have these guys ready.the next coach will be able to take us to atleast 10 wins next year no matter what system he brings in.

musthaved

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

I always wondered how a top high school team would fare against a Big Ten team. Guess I'll have to keep wondering. This Michigan team certainly wouldn't qualify as a top high school team.

BigWolverine13

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:01 p.m.

I've been in favor of giving RR one more year. Not any more! Send him packing. He recruits poorly, his game management is abominable, his teams have no discipline, he is a dope! His cousins in WV are waiting. Let's get a real coach, who is able to structure his strategies around the strengths of his players.

Sean T.

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4:01 p.m.

3 and Out, You wanted Kool-aid representation I guess you got it. "I'd love to be David Brandon,I'd give RR a extension just to listen to all you crybabies wail". "I am sure you'all could do a better job with the players he has". WA WA WA Is there not anything these guys will say to defend RR?

Kubrick66

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 4 p.m.

David Brandon already knows what he's going to do. If RR isn't fired on Monday then he will be head coach again next season. From a player development, and recruiting standpoint there is no reason to hold onto a coach over the next five weeks only to fire him at the first of the year. It's now or never for Brandon. As fans... all we can do now is sit and wait.

loco123

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:57 p.m.

Not to worry about Brandon's decision making. Martin was pushed out after too many bad decisions. Brandon was brought in to clean up a mess. He has good business decision making skills. He gets it. He was brought in to make sure UM athletics recovers the $250 million dumped into the football stadium. That's why Coleman made the change. He can't leave Martin's messes in place.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:56 p.m.

Hey Scooter: All of us "crybabies" are not payed to coach the team, RR is. And he's failed miserably.

OSUbeBetter

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:55 p.m.

And i do believe thats 3 senior classes who have never beaten The Ohio State.

OSUbeBetter

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:54 p.m.

2,562 days..........Aaaaaand counting!

scooter dog

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:53 p.m.

I'd love to be David Brandon,I'd give RR a extension just to listen to all you crybabies wail. I am sure you'all could do a better job with the players he has. WA WA WA

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:53 p.m.

My favorite Bo quote: I love to win. Love it. Football is just too hard and too tough if youre not successful. This isnt just recreation, and the sport isnt for everybody. I just dont want to expend all this time and effort and come up short. We've kind of lost our way, haven't we?

salineboy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:52 p.m.

If Wisconsin wins today Ohio State will have no chance to pass them & go to the Rose Bowl - I'm sure Wisconsin will get more "strength of schedule" points playing Northwestern than OSU did playing Big Blue!

Danny

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:52 p.m.

SO PIIFUL! I can't watch this any longer! Mid American Conference level football. Denard with all his skills is not a leader and RR is @ the JC level of football. Truely a horible dissapointment for a storied rivilary. Danny

3 And Out

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:51 p.m.

has anyone seen robbie or mitch lately? there has to be some koolaid representation here...no? ok then...it is time for Brandon to cut RR loose....no way he brings him back after this...the alums are going crazy now..it is this bad and it is on RR.

clarklaker

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:49 p.m.

Its a sad day for michigan football when osu feels sorry for you. I cant believe how low Michigan has dropped.We look like a community collge team. Hire Harbaugh and get back to michigan football.sad sad day to be a wolverine.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:48 p.m.

Seriously though, even though I've been saying RR was gone for awhile, I wasn't really sure that was coming... until today. You can't end the season with two completely embarrassing blow out losses coupled to 3 years of ineptitude. If Brandon keeps this guy, then Brandon goes on the hot seat. Brandon's a smart guy, he'll understand that. RichRod's gone.

loco123

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:47 p.m.

same old. same old. Run Denard. Lots of yards. Few points. Denard turnover. Denard hurt. D gets rolled. We've seen this movie before. each of the last 7 Saturdays.

Dale

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:47 p.m.

Hey, it's progress. Two years ago it was 42-7. Another Rich Rod record. All 11 times OSU scored today was a new record for most points given up in a season. OSU (today). 37....Michigan seniors (four year total)...27.

"We" not "Them"

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:46 p.m.

Boy, is it about to be a LONG 3 weeks. After today's loss the RR vitriol should be at an all-time high. I just hope the genuine UM fans who have legitimate complaints can distinguish themselves from the mean and irrational trolls that will inevitably show up in force. Go Blue.

Kubrick66

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:46 p.m.

The Michigan/OSU "rivalry" has been non-existent over the past 23 years! Tressel vs Michigan 9-1 Michigan vs Pre Tressel OSU 10-2-1 Not much of a rivalry when each team dominates by the decade.

Sean T.

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:45 p.m.

I'm waiting on Dusty to tell me how good of a QB Denard is and why our offense is so potent? Don't worry, I'll wait.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:45 p.m.

The betters said take the points and OSU because UM wouldn't come close to covering the spread. Boy, were they right. Could've made a small fortune betting against my alma mater.

GoblueinNE_PA

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:44 p.m.

Last stop on the RichRod Farewell Tour just left Columbus! For those of you that weren't on board before, we'll still let you hop on!! Can't wait to hear how this is rationalized away! LOL!!!

ogel1209

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:44 p.m.

Dave Brandon, please FIRE RR!!! We're all tired of being the laughing-stock of the college football world. RR's had plenty of time to prove himself. RR's an embarrassment to the U of M, not only as a coach, but with his underhanded financial shenanigans. Please, Mr. Brandon, bring us someone to coach the team who can return us to the "glory days." I'm SO tired of RR.

win

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:43 p.m.

Hey relax. Give this guy two more years and just see what he will produce when these kids are juniors and seniors! Did I just say that? I meant, sorry RR, your days are numbered in A2.

DonAZ

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:42 p.m.

"I am sure all the whiners and armchair quarterbacks will have a field day with the loss." As well they should. That game was an embarrassment for Michigan. They were outclassed in every way. But more importantly, the game showed the key weakness of a Rich Rodriguez team -- lack of fundamental execution and lack of discipline. Dropped balls, penalties, no kicking game whatever, poor special team play... the list goes on. This game also shows what Rodriguez's vaunted offense does when faced with a strong, physical defense. It sputters and stalls. This was a disgrace.

Greg

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:41 p.m.

I would have loved to have won today instead of given another opportunity to bash Richrod, but the outcome was certain before the game began. That is the problem with Richrod, he is predictably an awful coach. time to go!!

loco123

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:41 p.m.

RR's team is definitely showing improvement. Against IA, MSU and WI, the offense averaged 6 points in the first half. Today 7 points. See, improvement.

Blueman Rick

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:40 p.m.

Another embarrassment for UM on national TV. Boring UM football? It's very sad to see this storied rivalry become anything but. I'm optimistic that we can return to our days of glory with the right HC. The Bo vs. Woody rivalry was something special. Sure glad I attended UM during those years and attended some of the greatest games ever played at the Big House.

NoBowl4Blue

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:39 p.m.

Was Gordon Gee OSU President talking about Michigan the other day we he was talking about the little sisters of the poor? Wait a minute I hear something.....it's getting louder yes that's it singing... Na Na Na Na Na na na na HEY HEY HEY Good bye.............Admit your mistakes with West Virgina overrated coaches who lack integrity. Hire Jimmy NOW! Na na na na na na na Hey hey hey goodbyeeeeeeeeeee Rich Rod. Oh wait I hear yet another song. Can you hear it Tater and Theo "ding dong the king is dead"

rreidannarbor

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:38 p.m.

Went about as expected. I predicted 42-17 OSU. Turned out even a little worse than that. The only chance of a close game, let along a win would have been near perfect execution and Michigan's execution was far from that!

Sean T.

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:38 p.m.

And the excuses begin in 1, 2,........

salineboy

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:38 p.m.

Rich Rodriguez thumbed his nose at Michigan traditions from the first day he got here. He has brought us three terrible seasons, an NCAA investigation into his cheating program (how could he not have known what was going on when his former school was under investigation for the exact same violations?) and now he has started his own tradition. Never beating Ohio State (and Michigan State). Michigan tradition under Rich Rodriguez is a tradition of Shame! He needs to go! Bring back Jim Harbaugh!!!!!!!

Kubrick66

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:37 p.m.

Holding, illegal shift, off sides, personal fouls, fumbles, interceptions, poor tackling, bad angles, horrible special teams, unprecedented number of freshman starting EVERY YEAR blown out once every four games, 0-6 against MSU/OSU. Fundamentally inept. Uncompetitive against quality teams. One quality win in three seasons. Welcome to Michigan football under Rich Rodriquez.

aftermac

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:36 p.m.

David Brandon is changing the locks at Schembechler Hall as we speak.

Rik Pfenninger

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:35 p.m.

Can we lose this guy???? He can't win and the players won't play for him. What a joke! rp

Macabre Sunset

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:33 p.m.

Goodbye RichRod. I can't say I'll miss you.

scooter dog

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:32 p.m.

I am sure all the winers and armchair quaterbacks will have a field day with the loss.

ShadowManager

Sat, Nov 27, 2010 : 3:30 p.m.

Let the RichRod DeathClock begin....