David Paris

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 9:26 p.m.

What has a smiling CEO done for YOU lately? I'm voting for Virge Bernero. The Republican party has done nothing for this country, nor, for this state, and they are proud of it. The Republican party has done nothing to earn my vote, and this time, they won't get a single one!

mmggttnn

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 1:41 p.m.

More dirty Democrat politics. It worked for Granholm (our loser Governor) and now they're trying it on Snyder. Can't the Democrats come up with something constructive? The last thing Michigan needs is another Granholm clone. Why doesn't Bernero blast Ford, Chrysler and GM for expanding jobs overseas and reducing jobs in the US? Because he's just another two-faced politician slinging lies and inuendos. Vote SNYDER! A guy who knows how to bring business sense and jobs to our desperate State.

Speechless

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 12:12 p.m.

"... In most cases, the decision to outsource is one of survival...." Which begs the question:  Survival for who? Not for employees, clearly. They're fully expendable and easily sacrificed in the interest of obtaining near-slave labor overseas or in Central America. The U.S. does not need to play along with all the rules that destroy middle class livelihood to the benefit of Wall Street stockholders who demand higher profit margins no matter the social cost. Not to mention that some of these destructive rules are native to our legal system and national economy. To say that our society has "no choice" but to go along with job outsourcing is not much more than an updated variation on the Eichmann defense — a claim that we merely "follow orders" in the big game of international capital.

demistify

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 10:05 a.m.

@nekm1: You are entitled to your hatred of unions, but your connections are invalid. There is no way to connect the teachers union with Michigan's unemployment. The UAW is a major victim of it, not its cause. There is another state with 13+% unemployment, Nevada. It is not known as union-friendly. And Mississippi is not far behind.

demistify

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 9:51 a.m.

The best known example of relying on a successful businessman without political experience to pull us out of an economic collapse was Herbert Hoover. His prescription for doing it was the same as we are getting from Rick Snyder: Keep the government out of the way and wait for business to magically fix everything. It did not work. And this was in the days when business did not have the option of making more money by shipping jobs overseas.

nekm1

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 8:54 a.m.

Bernero = Unions...unemploymnent in Michigan is 13+% and higher depending on the region. Can we really afford more of this kind of rhetoric? Teacher unions own this candidate. The UAW owns this candidate. Rick Snyder is beholden to NO ONE but himself and the voters of this state. Ask yourself what we have seen with 8 years of the state held hostage by Teacher Unions, the UAW, and AFSME....enough already!

Smiley

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 7:32 a.m.

The federal government sets the rules on trade, and companies have to compete within those rules. In most cases, the decision to outsource is one of survival. While certain protectionist approaches are not good (or even permitted under international treaty), trade policies need to be fair, and the fact is right now they aren't. The outsourcing of manufacturing jobs from the US is 100% the fault of our federal government dating back decades. I've followed several matters facing the DOC and the ITC over the past several years, and our federal government has a propensity for free trade, as opposed to fair trade. Believe it or not, there are companies and industries trying to get the federal government to protect domestic industries - nearly all would prefer to be based at home than somewhere else. There is a belief by our federal government that free trade is better for the US in the long run, but this belief seems to blind them to the effect on low to middle-class working Americans. One of my favorite proposed solutions from Warren Buffet.. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2003/11/10/352872/...The point being, even if this is true about Rick Snyder, in all likelihood it's not his fault, or even a voluntary decision for that matter.

michiganpoorboy

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 3:14 a.m.

Snyder is just the best man for the job. The Mayor is just not understanding we do not need politicians they have no business savvy all they want is to be elected and live on the peoples dime.

InsideTheHall

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 1:10 a.m.

Hmmmmmm looks like the union is paying by the post these days. A clear sign Bully Bernero is way behind not only in the polls but ideas. You can vote for the future or vote the past. Pick your poison wisely Michigan.

Veracity

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 12:29 a.m.

"THE JOB CREATOR" "Creating more and better jobs is the number one issue for Rick Snyder in this campaign. He is the only candidate with a proven record of job creation." These quotes are found on Rick Snyder's campaign website and Rick Snyder wants jobs to be the key issue in this election. Therefore, it is important for voters to understand that Rick Snyder did not directly create jobs at Gateway, Inc. In addition, it is pertinent to know that he was complicit with the creation of jobs outside of Michigan and the USA. While CEO in 2006, Gateway's laptop computers were made in China and desktop computers were made in Mexico. The failing company had to be sold the next year, shortly after Rick Snyder left his CEO position. Furthermore, Rick Snyder hasn't acknowledged that Virg Bernero assisted in the retention or creation of 6000 jobs while mayor. Also Virg Bernero obtained $161 million of federal funding for cleanup jobs in Michigan as well as $187 million for construction in the Lansing area. These are facts and can not be matched by Rick Snyder. As CEO of the Michigan Manufacturers Association, Chuck Haddon's effort to minimize the importance of outsourcing is not surprising. Members are CEO's who recognize the need for globalization. Speaking at the MMAs fifth annual CEO Forum on Monday, May 10, 2010, Richard E. Dauch, Co-Founder, Chairman of the Board and CEO of American Axle & Manufacturing stated, Globalization has been happening for decades..." and "Any major supplier that wants to remain in business must have a global reach and footprint. In this structurally changing industry, home court is wherever the business takes you." Like for Rick Snyder, CEO incomes have not been dependent on workers being employed in Michigan. In fact, by outsourcing production to cheaper labor forces overseas, companies are more profitable and their executives receive greater compensation. Rick Snyder's private corporate executive experience will not be useful in creating jobs for Michigan's unemployed. Eliminating the MBT, as recommended by Rick Snyder, will increase profits for businesses but will not necessarily create jobs in Michigan.

jameslucas

Wed, Sep 8, 2010 : 12:05 a.m.

I think as a state weve got to get over some of this said Chuck Hadden CEO of the Michigan Manufactures Association. In other news I think space travel is important said Dr. Michael Griffin Administrator of NASA.

demistify

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 10:01 p.m.

So, the Michigan Manufacturers Association thinks that it is uncouth to object to its members shipping jobs overseas. Coincidentally(?), we are also being told that fewer jobs would have been lost if Michigan had agreed to bust the unions ("right-to-work"), so that wages would be lower (at Chinese levels?). And the same people who tell us that outsourcing should not be an issue are busy bashing Bernero for supporting unions. Several posts have repeated the mantra that is is only low-skill jobs that are disappearing; call your credit card and listen for the Indian accent. No, outsourcing is not inevitable. It is the result of policy decisions to join WTO and follow its strictures, and to have tax breaks for corporations that outsource. You can argue the pros and cons of these policies, but do not pretend that they they are compulsory, or that they are not reversible. They have taken a major toll on the Michigan economy, so they are legitimate issues. And, Granholm notwithstanding, we will not magically be saved by pie-in-the-sky new industries (in which foreign countries are often ahead of us in technology).

Speechless

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 9:02 p.m.

If Rick Snyder really cared about the Gateway jobs shipped overseas, he would not only have quit his board position, but would have done so very publicly so as to call attention to what was happening. That way, the company might still have been shamed into keeping at least some of these positions inside the U.S. Instead, Snyder quietly continued to profit from his association with Gateway even while thousands lost their livelihoods. It's very simple. If Snyder had just walked away from Gateway in public protest over its decision to rely on exploited third world labor, he would not now be having any problems whatsoever with his past coming back to haunt him. In fact, he would be held up as a hero, including by many of Bernero's labor backers, for being one of a select few business leaders setting a principled example in favor of the welfare and stability of working people. However, Rick chose to do otherwise back then. The grief he gets for it during the current election season is fully deserved, unfortunately. There is no reason in the world for Michigan voters to "get over this," and that's exactly the kind of statement one expects to hear a rich, spoiled brat. It's not his gig that's getting shipped overseas, so Chuck Hadden couldn't care less.

David Briegel

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 7:43 p.m.

Rick, seriously now, What is your position on China? Child labor? Slave Labor? Prison labor? Plundering the natural resources? Polluting the environment? Do you even care? How will America compete with our values vs. their "values"? HOW will YOU create JOBS in MICH?? Don't complicate things. Just answer those simple questions. IF you want to lead us.

michiganexpats.com

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 7:03 p.m.

The Michigan voters shouldn't care if he outsourced jobs or not. What they need to think about is who is going to be the best governor. When is the first debate?

AlphaAlpha

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 6:50 p.m.

Mr. Bomey - Do you have any links explaining how outsourcing is a federal, not state, issue? Or about how outsourcing is a result of trade treaties, not state government? About how 1990s WTO agreements have changed work life for millions? They might help to focus an otherwise unproductive discussion...

AnnArBo

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 6:40 p.m.

"a governor whos going to stand up and fight for Michigan, who will stand up and fight against outsourcing and against our jobs being sent to other countries" How exactly is he going to stop outsourcing? Better wake up, we will never have the simple low skill high pay manufacturing jobs again, we just can't compete in today's global labor market. Better get someone in charge who understands the new global business climate, and understands how to encourage new business and industries that we can be competitive with. Are we going to punish companies that do things that make them profitable? We need to ask ourselves why companies leave Michigan and the US and why some companies stay. The old mantra of "I will fight" stirs emotions but does nothing to attract businesses.

E. Manuel Goldstein

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 6:14 p.m.

The article says, "Snyder has said he opposed the outsourcing but was a minority voice on the board and couldnt stop it. He has said he has demonstrated experience as a "job creator" as an Ann Arbor venture capitalist and Gateway executive." How about seeing some documentary evidence of Rick Snyder's purported opposition to outsourcing at Gateway - like quotes from board meeting minutes? I'm not going to just trust what Rick Snyder says during a campaign for high office. If "Rick" had resigned from the Gateway board during the outsourcing, then I might give some credence to his statement. Voters, and outsourced workers deserve more of an explanation. Perhaps with more information voters will see through Rick Snyder's bluff, just like they saw through Scamway's DeVos four years ago. The only other "job creation" Snyder seems to be doing is attempting to buy the Governor's office. He could be using his $millions$ to be creating jobs right now. Also, Michigan's progressive women (and men) should be very concerned about Snyder's conservative anti-choice stance.

Tom Joad

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 5:37 p.m.

The jobs of the future will be highly skilled or medical. Even a casual perusal of UM salary supplement shows that: Lines and lines of entries showing nurses at UM Hospital making $85,000 each (over $40 an hour). Those former low-skilled manufacturing jobs that left Michigan in droves won't ever return to anywhere near the level of middle class pay.

Huron74

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 5:02 p.m.

Bernero's complaint about Gateway's outsourcing a decade ago is the center piece of his campaign because it has to be. Bernero has no other line of attack to build a campaign around. That cockamamie scheme to create a state bank of his will never make it through a politically divided legislature no matter how many red faced screaming rants he makes or paid guys in cow suits his spin doctors hire IMHO.

seedling

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 5 p.m.

I believe that any company in Michigan that has outsourced, especially internationally, should not receive any tax relief, business grants, any kind of financial break. Deloitte, Gateway and others are interested in corporate greed. Going out the back door to train 'employees' and keep their costs down is a slap in the face to those hundreds of thousands of former workers that could benefit from in-state companies keeping it HOME and revitalizing the community coffers and give some hope to those who just want a job. For an executive to want to lead the State - how can his sense of economic issues be good for a state when he has already let revenue trickle across state lines? You really want to vote for this guy? And SHAME on NBC for slapping unemployed people in the face by having a comedy called 'OutSourced' debuting this fall. All unemployed people should complain and boycott NBC.

Nathan Bomey

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 2:29 p.m.

The story references the demonstration by Democratic Party employees wearing cow suits and protesting Snyder's Gateway tenure. I just came across this photo of the demonstration, in case it's of interest: http://twitpic.com/2lusjz

81wolverine

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 2:01 p.m.

Looks like the Democrats are falling back on the same-old strategy they used in Granholm vs. DeVos. The difference now is that people have wised up and realize the Democrats have no plan of their own to pull the State's economy out of the dumpster. This rhetoric about Snyder outsourcing jobs is completely insignificant and irrelevant to where the state economy stands today. We need to look to the future and for solutions - not trying to play the blame game for why jobs went overseas in the past. Heck, the auto companies and most other manufacturers in Michigan outsource all kinds of parts, products, and services overseas. It's the only way to stay competitive any more. If you want to blame someone for all the job losses due to shipping jobs overseas, blame the politicians and bureaucrats at the state and federal levels who never came up with a Plan B for what to do with displaced workers over the years. Instead of nurturing and helping to build industries that the U.S. could be competitive in, they just sloughed off the responsibility to the private sector who they told us would absorb all the newly unemployed workers. Creating solid retraining and education programs so workers could learn new skills would have helped too.

Richard C

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 1:59 p.m.

I just have a difficult time believing someone who out-sourced jobs tell me that they are going to bring jobs to Michigan. Like to know more about how they are going to bring jobs to Michigan instead of hearing more slogans.

amlive

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 1:27 p.m.

@Jeremy - I believe he is moderate on social issues, for a Republican. When he could no longer dodge them, he seems to have reticently regurgitated the party line on some issues. Yes, he said is is pro-life. He also has indicated however, that this is not a priority of his, and he believes his job should focus on economic issues. He also has made arguments that if you do want to decrease abortions, addressing issues of economy and education would be much more effective routes to achieve this goal. I'd say that's about as moderate a view as he could state publicly without getting kicked out of the party. He has made clear that he is in favor of stem cell research. In order to avoid mutiny however, he has cleverly shielded this position behind the idea that although he personally considers life to be sacred and beginning at conception, the voters have spoken on this and he will not challenge their decision. He has also said that though it may seem deplorable on one level, since the embryos that would otherwise be discarded could actually be used toward research that may save lives, it is the lesser of two evils. As to gay marriage, he has been cited as supporting civil unions, but not proper marriage - pretty much the same stance as taken by Obama and Granholm. Bernero certainly beats him on this issue from a liberal perspective, but I think that this is about as far as he could go and still get any Republican support. My take on him is that he really doesn't seem to want to deal with any of these sandbags carried around by the right, and would rather not run a government with setting social rules based on religious dogmas as a priority. I think he's gone as far moderate on these issues as a Republican can go in today's politics, and that he would rather just see them set aside until our culture outgrows them as hot-button issues. His related comments seem reluctant and obligatory, which I think is a good sign that he's not on a crusade to enact laws that limit rights. At least that's what I hope... I do wish his choice for Lt Governor were as moderate as he seems here (again, moderate for a Republican), but what can you do?

InsideTheHall

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 1:14 p.m.

Bully Bernero and his union puppet masters will continue to debate the past with no plan for the future. Bernero cannot unwind globalization and the Republicans cannot unwind Roe v Wade. It is time we demand our politicians and those who pull their strings to start looking thru the windshield instead of the rear view mirror. Snyder is looking forward and Bernero wants to keep pulling him and the entire backwards.

alterego

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 1:07 p.m.

The reason I didn't vote for DeVos was not because he outsourced. It was because I didn't like his business model, his product, or his social values. I probably won't vote for Bernero because I don't like name calling and trash talk. I'd rather hear the positives of his campaign and the analysis of why his policies will be better than his opponent. If mudslinging brings out the base of a particular party, then I'll send my regrets. I'll consider each candidate and each issue individually rather than demurely checking the slate for one side or another. We all know that Michigan is in a difficult time. But we all (at least I hope we all) know that the world is a different place than it was 10 years ago. The question is: How do we adapt to the new environment?

fester

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 1:02 p.m.

Vic, What is your plan for Michigan? All I hear you say is that Rick shipped jobs overseas. Maybe or maybe not, But what is YOUR plan for Michigan? That is the REAL issue.

5c0++ H4d13y

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:56 p.m.

Those jobs would have been out sourced by either A) Gateway out sourcing them and staying in business or B) Gateway going out of business and consumers buying from a company already producing over seas.

IAmProsperous

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:54 p.m.

Outsourcing is one of the reasons are economy is the way it is right now. It is an important issue for those of us out of a job because of it. It is an important issue for customers who no longer get customer service because of it. You and others like you don't want to talk about it anymore because outsourcing increased your bottomline and that is #1 with you. Well, look where that has gotten our country? Reminds me of a animated picture of Bush Jr. on a horse only it wasn't the horse that was wearing the blinders.

Jeremy

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:52 p.m.

@amlife Moderate on social issues? He's said, publicly, that he's pro-life, against most lines of stem cell research, and he's against gay marriage. That's not moderate - that's conservative, and he just picked a Lt. Gov candidate who backs up and reinforces those claims.

whodat

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:38 p.m.

While I agree that the finger pointing on whether or not Snyder outsourced jobs is somewhat irrelevant to this race, I find the comments made by Hadden somehwat ignorant and appalling. But Hadden said globalization is a reality Michigan needs to accept and leverage. Quite frankly, a lot of those times when those jobs are shipped somewhere else - whether its Mexico, China, whatever you want to say - theyre supporting jobs here in the state, Hadden said. Is ths guy serious? The outsourcing trend doesn't begin and end with "cheap labor". I work for a company that on top of outsourcing IT, Customer Service, etc is now sending several departments of finance offshore. These are good-paying, middle class, white-collar jobs. And what happens if our complany makes money doing this? Well, that's just an excuse for the next company to do it, and so on and and so forth. Sending any good paying job overseas is to be taken seriously and we should not, as Hadden says "get over it". Unreal. The gap between rich and poor continues to widen..........but get over it, accept it....wow.

amlive

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:28 p.m.

Technojunkie, I think it would behoove us all to simply say "More lies". Yes, I agree the claims are misleading, heavily spun half-truths (aka, "lies"), but to say "More Democrat lies" seems to insinuate that tactics like this are exclusive property of the left. We all know that both sides are equally guilty - how many times have we heard blame placed solely on Granholm for Michigan's decline in manufacturing? Snyder probably had as much to do with the downfall of Gateway as Granholm did with that of GM, which in the big picture amounts to very little in either case. I am completely with you in your disgust in this type of spin tactic - I just hope that we all can apply the same skepticism and criticism equally to either side when appropriate. I do by the way, applaud Snyder's restraint so far from stooping to such levels (at least from what I've seen so far). We'll see how long he can maintain the high road once the parties really start campaigning... I haven't heard of any debates scheduled yet - I'll be quite interested to see them.

djm12652

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:22 p.m.

I for one am tired of politicians using the tactic of slamming their opponent to make themselves look as a better option. Tell me in detail what you have accomplished, how you accomplished it and the amount of revenue generated, tax revenue generated, jobs generated instead of mud slinging...show me what you got and you will be considered for my vote...

a2karen

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:19 p.m.

@amlive I agree with many of your points and want to see these two next to each other - debating. When are the debates scheduled? All I hear is how they argue, but are dates, times and locations announced as yet? This will be an interesting race.

Technojunkie

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:13 p.m.

More Democrat lies. Amway expands in China to support growing sales in that country and Democrats spin it as DeVos "outsourcing jobs". Gateway goes into decline after Snyder steps down from executive management and the performance of his replacements is all Snyder's fault? I can't imagine why businesses are afraid to set up shop here, unless they're massively bribed like the film industry.

Nathan Bomey

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:12 p.m.

FYI I just realized that one of the paragraphs was a little confusing, so I updated it and added another paragraph to ensure that what Hadden meant to convey is communicated accurately here.

amlive

Tue, Sep 7, 2010 : 12:04 p.m.

I'm traditionally quite a liberal leaning voter, but so far Snyder seems moderate and sensible enough on social issues that I'm willing to consider his arguments on economic issues and remain open to voting in his favor this fall. Plus, I really don't like Bernero's style - it seems confrontational, mud-slinging, you're either with me or against me kind of mentality. Though I welcome the idea of democrats actually growing a spine, this is a bit much. As to the outsourcing claims, I agree that this is a negative and unwarranted tactic that is doomed to fail for Virg in the eyes of reasoned and clear thinking voters, and will only be effective to the portion who put faith in heart-tugging superficial lines - seems more like a Tea Party style tactic than a solid argument. I doubt Bernero's campaign will be able to soundly convince moderates that Snyder's role on Gateway's board of directors was directly responsible for outsourcing of jobs which could have otherwise been kept in the US. All he can do is repeat "he shipped our jobs overseas" enough times that whether true or not, it may affect enough voters to paint Snyder as the enemy. Even if he did ship jobs overseas, that should not rule him out for the job of trying to bring them back. If you want to design the best computer security system, you hire the hackers who have figured out how to work around it. If you want to encourage business investment in the state, hire someone who truly understands why employers are moving elsewhere. When their job description changes to now bring employers in to the State, they understand better than anyone else what the companies are looking for, and what structure and tools may best be used to coax them in. Now the big if - and it's a big one - is whether he can come up with a plan to be able to do this without punishing labor, or lowering wages and benefits to substandard levels. Sure, you can bring business in by letting them skate through tax free and abuse labor with low wages, no benefits, and looser standards for employment overall, but this does nothing to help the people of our state. If he can present a plan that does not punish labor however, yet still makes the state appealing for business investment, there's a chance he may actually get my vote this year. We'll see.