Ann Arbor Pioneer-Huron football brawl: Should suspended coaches be permitted at practice?
The suspensions following the on-field brawl started by coaches at Ann Arbor Huron and Pioneer high schools Friday have sparked discussion about the district’s existing discipline policies.
Friday night's football brawl, which started between Huron and Pioneer coaches, has sparked discussion about the district's coach suspension and discipline policies.
Daniel Brenner | AnnArbor.com
District spokeswoman Liz Margolis said a few parents have stated concerns about the coaches conducting practices like normal.
“(Suspended coaches) are allowed to be at the practices right now,” she said. “The district does not have a policy that restricts them from being at the practices. … Some board members casually have said, ‘We would like to look at this.’”
Margolis said she relayed the message to Superintendent Patricia Green. Margolis said she did not know if any plans were made to place the topic on an upcoming meeting agenda.
In the case of handling suspensions following Friday night’s altercation, Margolis said the district went by the MHSAA’s policy, in which suspensions only pertain to games. Margolis said the coaches will not be permitted inside the venues of their respective contests on Friday.
School board Vice President Christine Stead said she does expect the board to address the brawl at its next meeting on Oct. 24 in some form. Whether a more in-depth discussion would take place at a Committee of the Whole meeting about discipline policies and practices or not, she said she could not speculate.
Stead did say she had some questions that she would be asking about how AAPS coaches’ contracts, in general, spell out consequences and expectations.
AAPS contracts with Professional Contract Management Inc. (PCMI) for coaching positions. This is the same company the district recently discussed using for noon-hour supervisors. However, a contract privatizing lunch employees eventually was voted down, 4-3, by the Board of Education.
Margolis said PCMI hires all non-AAPS-staff-member coaches, which means those coaches not already employed by the school district. She said, for example, Gildersleeve also is a teacher at AAPS, so he is a district employee. However, the Pioneer assistant coach who was relieved of his coaching duties was not a teacher in the district, so the district called up PCMI after Friday’s fight and informed PCMI that individual was no longer needed in that position and PCMI informed the individual, Margolis said.
The unnamed assistant coach from Pioneer was fired for instigating the fight. According to numerous accounts, he shoved Gildersleeve.
Margolis said the district’s contract with PCMI is drafted in a manner that indicates PCMI employees working in AAPS are required to adhere to the district’s rules and expectations.
“Basically it’s at our discretion (to discontinue a coach’s responsibilities). It’s like an at-will employee,” Margolis said.
School board President Deb Mexicotte seconded Stead’s expectation that the brawl will be a topic of conversation at Wednesday’s board meeting.
“Because this was such a serious matter, this gives us the opportunity to look at the policies and procedures we have in place to make sure they are align with what we believe should happen in the future,” she said. “And if any suggestions need to be made, to do it now as the incident is fresh in our minds.”
Items typically are not placed on the board’s agenda until there has been at least some discussion around the board table about them, Mexicotte said.
An undisclosed number of students also were suspended from Friday’s football game. It is the practice of AAPS not to release the names or disciplinary actions of students due to the Federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, as well as protections found in the district’s Rights and Responsibilities Handbook, district officials said.
The handbook says fighting carries a consequence of up to a 10-day suspension from school and physical assault can result in a student being expelled. Margolis said the handbook also allows for discretion in disciplinary decisions and district administrators chose to follow the MHSAA’s lead and suspend students for one game.
Danielle Arndt covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. Follow her on Twitter @DanielleArndt or email her at daniellearndt@annarbor.com.
Comments
Henry
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 3:50 a.m.
"And if that is not enough to upset you, number three for pioneer admitted to kids he was the one who stepped on the Huron players face and laughed about it and started the game Friday night against Livonia.what kind of message is that?????" "Are you serious? You are really concerned with other children on the team, how about focus on yours!" @Quit, dj is trying to focus on his own kid, but number 3 keeps getting all of the plays!!!! I wonder why?? #smh
Bashir McCrutcheon
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 6:31 p.m.
keepin it klassy as always.
Purple
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 4:10 a.m.
Well that explains all the blogs....
felicia
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 2:42 a.m.
wow
darre james
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 2:41 a.m.
And if that is not enough to upset you, number three for pioneer admitted to kids he was the one who stepped on the Huron players face and laughed about it and started the game Friday night against Livonia.what kind of message is that?????
Purple
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 4:09 a.m.
#fail
Quitcrying
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 3:05 a.m.
Are you serious? You are really concerned with other children on the team, how about focus on yours!
say it plain
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 2:09 a.m.
When I quell the feelings of disgust I have with the AAPS administrators and the School Board, I find it mildly amusing to see Ann Arbor have to deal with its obviously misplaced belief that it is "all that" in the important arena of its schools. This non-response joke of a slap-on-the-wrists for the brawlers, and general silliness clearly present in at least 2/3 of the district's football program, makes Ann Arbor look so very unsophisticated and 'small'. From Green's inability to make a coherent statement with the appropriate words included (can the Board run a couple vocabulary tests by future Superintendent candidates please?! ), to the shirking words from the Board, to the AD and coaching staff escapades, to the students' assault and trash talking. Way to make your community proud!
MyCommentNow
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 8:28 p.m.
When students are suspended for infractions, they are not allowed on school premises for the duration of their suspension. At least I hope it's that way in Ann Arbor. It is in Willow Run.... yes, Willow Run, where educational behavior IS important. Stay home, delinquent coaches, and read Thoreau. "October answers to that period in the life of man when he is no longer dependent on his transient moods......." Oh, yes, we do enjoy literature AND American history on the east side of Washtenaw County.
Stephen Landes
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 6:05 p.m.
This article moved to page two pretty quickly while the earlier article about the brawl itself is still "above the fold". Did someone not like the comments and poll results?
Stephen Landes
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 7:56 p.m.
Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping it was an error.
Danielle Arndt
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 6:26 p.m.
Stephen, we've fixed this. Thank you for alerting us to it! The wrong story was moved out of "Top Stories." You should be able to find this story there again in a few seconds.
Kyle Mattson
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 6:09 p.m.
Not sure what you're referring to Stephen as the headlines flow through the news pages by their publish date/time.
Bubba
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 5:50 p.m.
What we have here is a lack of leadership! I have never in my life voted against an educational millage because I beleive in education. So we are left with only a few choices, vote the current school board member's out or vote to not fund this administration until they put policies in place that actually TEACH leadership. Just sayin'.
Bill
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 5:33 p.m.
Suspension? Why aren't they suspended from the jobs? Or fired?
GoNavy
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 4:37 p.m.
The answer is, of course, "no." Otherwise, what is a suspension? Of course, "rules" will be bent, "definitions" will be modified, and these suspensions will become "suspensions" in name only.
Basic Bob
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 4:30 p.m.
I'm glad we got to see how our school board president handles petty disciplinary issues like this. If we have a staff member commit a heinous crime, we can expect her to refer the matter to attorneys to review the contract, suspend with pay, and not discuss at a board meeting until they have had a chance to get their ducks in a row. I'm voting for the other guy.
TMC216
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 4:17 p.m.
I was there and witnessed this. Suspensions? Practices? I'm wondering why both coaches & the AD haven't been FIRED and any season left (including any playoff activity) ended? I also agree the incredibly weak response by adminsitration sickens me. This matter is "no small deal", folks! I always thought A2 was better than this?
boo
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 9:32 p.m.
you must have been canned by Dottie or Eve? always seem to have an axe to grind with the AD's???????
Orangecrush2000
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 6:47 p.m.
Again, it's possible that the misbehaivor by the coaches is a reflection of persistent, however "under the radar," misbehavior, by the Athletic Directors; not different than when kids misbehave, it's a "reflection of the coaching." In this case, since it was the "coaches" who "misbehaved," perhaps it's a "reflection of the directing."
merdog56
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:54 p.m.
I haven't read anything that Paul Test pushed or shoved or struck anyone. In fact, he probably acted as a peace keeper throughout the ordeal. One rivalry dispute shouldn't override all of the good the man has done while serving thousands of students, many now parents, in Ann Arbor throughout his career. Coach Test's suspension of a game is more than enough, and probably too strong of a punishment. The man has overwhelmingly lead an astonishing moral career within this district.
Stephen Landes
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:15 p.m.
Ann Arbor Public Schools, from the coaches to the Superintendent to the Board have totally fumbled the Huron-Pioneer brawl. They all seem to be relying on attorneys and HR officials to tell them what to do when the right thing is obvious when one looks at what needs to be done to develop high character in young people. We have zero tolerance for all sorts of things in school -- carrying drugs or weapons into school or intolerant or abusive behavior in school. Where is the zero tolerance policy for adults and athletes who fail to live up to the high standards all of the tax payers expect from our school system? There is no excuse for a coach to lose control of his temper in front of his players or to lose control of his players. If players fail to exhibit proper on-field decorum (staying on the sidelines, refraining from engaging in a brawl) they should be called out by the coach, suspended or removed form the team, and lose any formal leadership positions they hold. If suspending players means you don't have enough to compete in the next game then it is too bad -- your forfeit because of team behavior. If a coach cannot manage this on his own then the coach needs to be dismissed for leadership failure. Neither the Huron nor Pioneer coach has done anything that indicates they are taking control of their teams. They have not announced suspension or dismissal of players (I don't care if they publicize the names or not). They have not suspended themselves for their actions. The school AD's have not suspended or fired the coaches that work for them. They are all passing the buck. The final straw is the Superintendents weak and inaccurate letter as published by AnnArbor.com. The letter is full of buck-passing. It lacks leadership. It confuses the issue with the misuse of concurrently/consecutively. I can promise you I will not vote for any incumbent school board member on Nov 6th.
Widow Wadman
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:03 p.m.
The coaches should not be attending practices and should have no part in the football program for two years. The AAPS should show everyone that fights on the ball field will not be tolerated and that employees and contracted workers will be disciplined for encouraging players to fight.
treetowncartel
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:03 p.m.
Any idea if the kids involved were suspended from school? Is the double standard at work here?
Bombus
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:59 p.m.
Please add a poll.
Danielle Arndt
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:06 p.m.
Thanks Bombus, you'll see there is now one included with this story. Glad to hear that sometimes commenters like polls!
Bombus
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:58 p.m.
NO. and duh!!
bobslowson
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:24 p.m.
No
mkm17
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:12 p.m.
I had to reread the story to make sure I got it right. The suspended coaches definitely should not have been allowed to participate in practices. I don't even understand the reasoning that the schools used to ALLOW them to participate. Just like a HS athlete, suspended is suspended. Gone. Vamoose. Now would be an excellent time for the school to step up and show it means business and that poor behavior will not be tolerated.
BradP
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:07 p.m.
I've read the article now. Let me translate the school board stand into common English. The coaches are allowed at practices = winning is more important that sportsmanship. (That may be true in professional sports, but it's not true for high school sports.)
BradP
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.
Could you add a poll to this article? The question lends itself to one. If the coaches are there, then it is not the same example for the team. Would they be required to not speak or assist? Then why be there? If it's to observe and later give feedback, it's not a suspension. I didn't read the article, I'm just going on the title, so if these are answered, sorry.
Danielle Arndt
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 3:02 p.m.
Brad, thanks for your suggestion on the poll! We've added one to the story. As far as whether the coaches have any restrictions while at practice, we've been told by numerous sources that the coaches have conducted practices like normal this week. There were apologies made to the teams and the schools by both coaches, according to the superintendent's statement released yesterday. You can find that statement here: http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps/home. Thanks for reading and for your questions!
BradP
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:59 p.m.
No.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:55 p.m.
"The district does not have a policy that restricts them from being at the practices" Forget policy in force now. Stand up and run the show for a change! This situation cried out for decisive leadership and strong and courageous decisions. Instead, the board pretty much yawned and ducked for cover behind their apparently deficient board policies. It is also unconscionable to let the coaches coach until at least next week's board meeting, where this will supposedly be discussed (whatever that means). Then, I gather, if more needs to be done, a special committee will be set up to start working on an answer some time after playoffs are over. Suck it up, be grown-ups, and make decisions. That is your job.
Bashir McCrutcheon
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.
Are all the negative votes coming from balas or the purple gang, lol?? the crutch
towncryer
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 4:36 p.m.
said the person with a user name of "boohoo" just for these brawl stories?
Boohoo
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.
Could be Balas, purple pride, or just people with some sense. I was thinking you were trying to be funny with the your user name, ummmmmm yea ,not so much, try again!
Linda Peck
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:13 p.m.
The children suffer from such ambiguous policies. That is the main concern I have.
A2PuzzledParent
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:56 p.m.
Parents need to attend the school board meeting. Clearly AAPS Admin is clueless ( or doesn't care) about how the vast majority of parents feel about this situation. I wonder if the school board will?
Bashir McCrutcheon
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 12:51 a.m.
what do the parents think of taping the suspended coach's name to players helmets?
A2PuzzledParent
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 9:14 p.m.
No, this is based on discussions with many of the parents who had children directly involved in this situation. I don't know if they're bloggers or not.
delta12
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:18 p.m.
Or, at least the vast majority of people that blog.
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:44 p.m.
This is an administration that wants to appear to be doing something, but desperately does not want their "enforcement" to have any meaningful consequences to Pioneer's playoff chances.
Brad
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:54 p.m.
They do appear to be doing "something", and that something is pretty much nothing.
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:43 p.m.
"The district does not have a policy that restricts them from being at the practices. … Some board members casually have said, 'We would like to look at this.'" What a joke of a "punishment". You should have suspended them from the football program, not merely from the game. Clue: You get to make the rules, stop trying to hide behind policy But the "penalties" were always a sham, as evidenced by the false 2 game suspension. Run concurrently? Are you kidding?
Thoughtful
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:09 p.m.
Suspended from school does not mean hang out on school grounds. Suspended from a job does not mean interact at your workplace like it never happened. Typical AAPS wimps. Slap on the wrist. Wonder why enrollment is down?
towncryer
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:55 a.m.
Whether one agrees or disagrees with the suspensions and how they are carried out is one matter. What I find more concerning is the cavalier attitude of the Board and the super----"maybe we should look at this" and "we'll just take our queue from MHSAA and do whatever they do". This is not leadership, and it certainly isn't $245,000 worth of leadership.
say it plain
Sat, Oct 20, 2012 : 1:52 a.m.
Bingo!
HB11
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:55 a.m.
Wow, the story that never dies.
jpud
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:49 a.m.
The Ann Arbor Public schools are marketing themselves every day to prospective students. Large class sizes and no discipline do not present a pretty picture to prospective students. This brawl and the poor handling of the post- brawl discipline will cost the district money in the form of lost students, and teachers will have to be let go. Where is the outrage amongst the parents and teachers who own the schools? Teachers, these are your jobs on the line. These coaches should be persona non grata at the high schools. Test and Gildersleeve are no longer welcome members of our community. When you see them, be sure to tell them to get lost.
Nick Danger
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:36 a.m.
What is wrong with AAPS? These guya are suspended and should not have the privledge of running a practice
JRL
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:19 a.m.
NO! The coaches (lower case intended) are NOT setting an example for adult behavior and should serve there suspension without having contact with their players. AND, prior to their return each coach should address each others Schools to apologize for their irresponsible actions, emphasizing the message that: a) football is a GAME, and b) violence is NEVER the appropriate way of settling differences. Since they are already back coaching, the School Board needs to make sure that there IS a lesson learned. We'll see... I'm doubtful.
a2citizen
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:59 p.m.
And don't forget the coaches should also apologize to their families, the bagger at Busch's, the god they don't believe in, obama and the olympic committee.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 1:48 p.m.
A2...Did they apologize to the opponent's school, as suggested here? I think they only apologized to their own students. If I am right, you should try to read more carefully.
A2Pio
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:08 p.m.
JRL, both coaches have already apologized to their schools this week, in an announcement to students and staff. Check with your student, to verify.
Goober
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:12 a.m.
We should end this public forum and never-ending series of articles and move on with life. There are more important issues that can be reported on to fire up the reader base.
MRunner73
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:39 p.m.
I tend to agree. Mend fences by hosting some communty event like a car wash done by the football programs from both schools.
Bababooey
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 12:07 p.m.
Bye
Bashir McCrutcheon
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:57 a.m.
you are free to move on dude.
music to my ear
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 11:01 a.m.
no, they should be home thinking about why they got suspended . and how they will not let it happen again.
Carole
Fri, Oct 19, 2012 : 10:44 a.m.
Suspension. What suspension if they are at practice, etc. Sorry, they should not be there. And, on another note, referees need to keep the game in line. Don't know if this was a factor in the game, but have been to games where they are not on top of things and all goes array.