Jack Panitch

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 6:38 p.m.

Ypsilivin: I think maybe you read something out of context. If I'm right, you may need to go back and read the thread again to pick up what you missed. The point being debated is why people said no. And the simple truth is that a lot of people said no for a lot of different reasons. DonBee asserts that they all or mostly all said no, because they were financially incapable of paying the tax. I say many folks had other reasons for saying no. Nonetheless, while the discussion has been pretty interesting, I'm having some trouble relating it all back to schools of choice. I think Metric SU started an interesting discussion, but I'm having trouble continuing it, because it just does not seem to relate to the article.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 6:36 p.m.

Mike: What does McCarthy need to be cleared of? That you even have to ask that question means any further discussion is pointless. It also means you have not read the book you claim is sitting in your lap. Ypsi: I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that you would say that. Good Night and Good Luck

YpsiLivin

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 6:17 p.m.

ERMG, With regard to the Emperor's clothes, if you're going to call someone out for being naked, you should make sure you're dressed yourself. At this point in a debate, I would take DonBee's argument over yours, since it seems as though you've offered nothing to inform this discussion.

mike from saline

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 5:40 p.m.

@ Ghost. I have it sitting right in front of me! Would you like me to look something up? By the way, what exactly does the Junior Senator from Wisconsin need to be cleared of, anyway?

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 4:31 p.m.

You obviously have not read the book (or, in the alternative, have not read it carefully) if you think a) it clears McCarthy's name, or b) impugns my namesake. Good Night and Good Luck

mike from saline

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 4:18 p.m.

@ ghost. The Haunted Wood Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 2:09 p.m.

... according to no one but Ann Coulter. Now there's a voice of reason. Even so hard-right a political commentator as William Bennett has recognized both the egregious damage done by McCarthy and the heroic work of people like my namesake who took him on a great risk to their professional lives. But, in the "Alice Through the Looking Glass" world of Faux Noise and Ann Coulter, black is white and white is black. Good Night and Good Luck

mike from saline

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 1:33 p.m.

@ Ghost, Someone is looking for your namesake. The Ghost of the Junior Senator from Wisconsin would like an apology. It turns out, he was right about everything!

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 11:41 a.m.

My "namesake" excelled at showing when the emperor had no clothes. That's all I'm doing here. Good Night and Good Luck

DonBee

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 11:35 a.m.

@Ghost - My agenda, such as it is, was posted early on. Make the overhead parts of the schools more efficient, fewer districts, fewer administrators, more consolidation of services. More focus on the classroom with the money we have. As to the rest of your post, Mr. Morrow would not have stooped to your tactics.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 10:20 a.m.

DonBee: You say you're not a CPA yet you write with the veneer of professional authority. Your numerous mistakes/errors/misrepresentations always paint the schools and their employees as being overpaid, over funded, and under worked. Sheer chance would require that, at least once in while, your "mistakes" might redound to the schools and their employees, but they never do. That they do not suggests an agenda, not an honest effort to, as you say, just present the facts. That's fine--we all have agendas. I think it time you make yours clear rather than hide behind the neutral observer mask that you wear. Good Night and Good Luck

YpsiLivin

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 10:20 a.m.

Jack, Unless I'm not understanding something correctly, the election results are the ultimate exit poll. Survey said: NO!

SudoNimAA

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 7:43 a.m.

aamom--Kids come back to AAPS in high school because there are very few alternatives. High school is expensive and there are no real charter high schools here. Washtenaw Technical Middle college does not have the typical high school experience with sports, music, prom, etc. There are others charters that are K-12, but that is a different experience. Community High is the school of choice for many, but only 1/3 get in. As far as private schools, Greenhills is the only one of any size here, the others are quite small. I don't think top students will stop attending AAPS high school. It is a great situation for them with tons of opportunities in sports, music, theater, and academics for elite students.

DonBee

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 7:11 a.m.

Ghost - I was corrected and apologized on the blog. And you know it. I am not an accountant or a lawyer. I do my best and put the numbers, and the results up for everyone to see. I ask, people to comment. I provide sources for most of my numbers and comments. I am not perfect and I know it. As I have said over and over, I am trying to understand and willing to put the time in to help me understand. 2 of the 3 things I said about sick time were true, I admitted having misread the third one.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Jun 7, 2010 : 6:57 a.m.

Beware of DonBee's so-called "financial analysis" Previous "amnalyses" he has undertaken insisted that teachers got to cash out all accumulated sick time upon retirement, and he included the sinking fund as part of the Ann Arbor schools' operating budget. There were other anomalies, as well. Good Night and Good Luck

J. A. Pieper

Sun, Jun 6, 2010 : 12:41 p.m.

I was not really surprised that AAPS did not have the response to their schools of choice invitation, did anyone really look at the schools they offered as choices? AAPS thinks a lot more of itself than they might deserve. We all know the fact that the Ann Arbor community did vote to approve the county wide millage, but it wasn't overwhelming, as it has been in the past. What many people fail to recognize is that not everyone in Ann Arbor is rich, and many of us cannot afford to see continued increases in our taxes, even though we do believe in the importance of education. Someone earlier commented on the mindboggling waste that must be going on in AAPS, and as a taxpayer, parent, and community member who is involved in the local schools, you really have to be here to see it and recognize it. Someone earlier also indicated that they would gladly see their property tax rate for school funding increase substantially to help with the situation we face. You can go ahead and donate this extra funding to the AAPS Endowment campaign, hoping to raise a million by sometime this summer. But this home owner would have to walk away from Ann Arbor if my tax rate increased substantially, to a community where there are lower taxes, and I would take my children with me.

aamom

Sun, Jun 6, 2010 : 10:07 a.m.

@jackieL - I know there are many talented kids there now but in my neighborhood I see more and more leave each year. I should also clarify that I am only speaking to the elementary and middle schools. It seems like most of the families come back for high school. I don't have children that far yet to know what the high schools are doing right to lure the families back. I'm guessing maybe it's the first real chance you have to take classes at your ability level instead of just "with the pack"? Guess I'll find out in a couple years.....

DonBee

Sun, Jun 6, 2010 : 8:01 a.m.

Jack - I was out of town working on polling day. I had to vote absentee. So, no I don't have exit polling and having done some research on exit polling, I don't think it works unless you are really well trained in it. What I do have is lots of small focus group discussions that I have done at various places since the vote. While is it again not a perfect sample, the discussions I have had with people who tell me they voted in the election indicate that a lot of them feel broke, and did not feel that they had more money to spend. I continue to do this sort of focus group to get a feel for where people are at. I spent 2 hours yesterday at public events asking questions and getting answers from people. So no, no exit polls, and I doubt you have them either. I do have time in most of the townships in the county asking questions and getting people's considered answers with their neighbors in the same group. What have you done to sample people's moods and opinions?

MetricSU

Sun, Jun 6, 2010 : 6:51 a.m.

Jack: I understand the nature of the millage. It's called "progressive taxation." Maybe liberals in AA have heard of it in other contexts, such as the federal income tax. You keep making the following argument, at least implicitly: Because AA taxpayers are will to pay more for their schools, they should get a lot more money for their schools. One can make that argument. That's what the old local property tax-based system did. And that's what the current system does because it maintained high funding for high spending districts, without shrinking the gap all of the way. Not everyone can live in the 60 or so districts in Michigan with very high funding. And the kids have no choice. Why not give kids better schools no matter where they are? And I mean in the current environment, where there will be no new taxes anytime soon.

Jack Panitch

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 11:02 p.m.

Metric SU: Ann Arbor taxpayers would have paid $16 million in taxes and received $11 million in revenue. That's a net outflow of $5 million to the rest of the county. To get the extra support, we were willing to take back something akin to 69 cents on every dollar. Try this mental exercise: pay a dollar for something worth 69 cents. Why would you do it? Because an appropriate progressive political choice made in 1994 left us a county-centered relief measure that allowed us to save ourselves, but only if the money were distributed on a per pupil basis county-wide, regardless of where the tax base was situated. DonBee: A lot of people said a lot of different things. No one I know of did any scientific exit polling. The only analysis I want you to pull out right now is your exit polling numbers. Unless you have them, you're just guessing. If you're going to downgrade me to a C based on a guess, you're going to have to justify it.

MetricSU

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 9:30 p.m.

Jack: The AA people voted for a higher ISD tax, which would've increased funding in AA just like in the other districts in Washtenaw. As a percentage, the gap in funding would've shrunk, but the dollar difference would've been the same. It would've been just like the situation now except that the rate would've been, what, 7 or 8 mills rather than 6? But AA still would've had much higher funding, and still would've been paying the same millage as everyone else. As I said, it was tried in the Ingham ISD a few years back with exactly the same result: Okemos and East Lansing supported it (but not overwhelmingly) and almost no other districts did. You're still avoiding the possibility of equalizing funding more given the structure and revenue already in place. Evidently, that is off the table for the AA pseudo-liberals. That's all I need to know. The fight has to be taken elsewhere. But where? Districts like AA, Farmington, West Bloomfield, and so on are just too powerful. There are some in the rural districts that are quite away of the inequities, but they don't have the voice. Right now it would be easier to get revenues reallocated among districts than to increase revenue through taxes. So it seems clear where the fight should be right now.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 8:46 p.m.

Jack - We both know I have done lots of analysis on prior threads. I wanted a short post, not a book. Should I drag it all out again? You talk about a few votes, but in most of the county the millage lost. We both know that. We also know that the post vote conversations both here and elsewhere indicated people felt broke. Whether they were or not, they felt that way. Be careful about reforming funding, the mix we had held up fairly well considering the loss of income, property and other taxes in the state over the last 9 years. Schools may not have felt they got as much of a raise as they needed, but they did not take the cuts the rest of the State departments and revenue sharing did until this year. I would do careful research before I try to mess with the funding. You may end up like California, and be much worse off.

Jack Panitch

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 7:53 p.m.

DonBee: Cliches do not substitute for analysis. A lot of folks voted against the millage for a lot of reasons, many having nothing to do with how much "blood" was left in their "turnip." E.g., some famous local guy who is pretty flush in real estate, but we would never call him a farmer. And there are a lot of notable examples just like him. (Think Geltner, Seelig, aataxpayer, a voice of reason, AnnArbor.coms editorial board, etc., etc., etc.) Its always nice to have something to say. Its more persuasive, though, when you have actual information. Metric SU: I tried to see above, but you havent said anything remotely responsive to the stark fact that we tried to accomplish your political agenda here in the county and failed. You cant very well take us Ann Arbor pseudo-liberals to task here in Washtenaw County for doing exactly what you argue all true liberals state-wide should do. In Philadelphia, the Law and Revenue Departments came up with hundreds of great ideas for reforming the Business Privilege Tax. These ideas never went anywhere, because our Mayors (Ed Rendell, John Street) in their political wisdom, knew that if we asked for one thing, no matter how important, we would get twenty other things forced down our throats that we did not want, because the rest of the state, even Pittsburgh, hates Philadelphia. We pseudo-liberals in Ann Arbor are pushing for funding reform as hard as anyone else in this state. Were not stupid. We fully recognize the beware of what you ask for proposition. And we are going in with our eyes open. We have a little higher standards and expectations than you do; and who knows? We might be out of touch with the economics, we might not. But we have the courage to find out. Since you have declared you are all for higher taxes to spend more on schools, you probably agree that the worst thing to do here would be to pull out the choke. The states economicv recovery is dependent, in part, on education. You couldnt possibly flood the engine at this point, but you could stall it out and die. So, its either raise taxes or prioritize education higher among funding needs. Having declared yourself solidly in the raise-taxes-to spend-more-on-schools camp, you immediately declare that this cant happen in this economy or even in a good economy. Im going to take you at your word here. So why would you give up this important fight in the blink of an eye? This is the time and place to stand and fight, not infight and undercut and run. So figure out what you really want, and then lets talk. Or not, if its going to be more of the same whining you quite unfairly accuse others of.

JackieL

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 3:14 p.m.

I can assure aamom that there are many very smart and talented students in aaps. You don't need to go to a private school to have private education. Most of the high performers in our high schools have had private music, art, sports, theater, and academic training right along with their public school education. It is very common now in certain income levels and cultures to get the children started very early with serious private sports, music, and academic training. This is a big part of the cause of some of the achievement gaps. Many of the top sports teams and all of the top music ensembles in our high schools are filled with students with years of private training. Going to school in AAPS is a mixed bag for kids that have not had the extras. I have heard people say it is better to go to other schools like Lincoln or Whitmore Lake where there is a much better chance for average kids to participate fully. Having kids on public assistance sit next to kids who's parents are world famous research scientists presents its own bag of problems. Ann Arbor is a tough town in many ways.

MetricSU

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 12:41 p.m.

aamom: I see we're really not in much disagreement. I agree completely that kids in a district like Mason or Holt can do quite well. Heck, I did well at schools well below those. What they give up compared with a district like Okemos is mainly the extracurriculars. Of course, the irony is that it's the Okemos parents that can better afford the extracurriculars, yet the taxpayers in the entire state are paying for their kids to have extra stuff. I certainly hope you're wrong about the high income kids moving to private schools. I have some fear of that -- but not so much in the Lansing area, as there aren't any good private choices (from my perspective). You can go to a place like Berkeley, CA and see what the public schools are like because of the flight of the better off kids. It's not pretty. Almost no U.C. Berkeley faculty send their kids to the public schools. That is incredibly sad in a place like Berkeley. I'm not a big fan of vouchers, but I can see why some are. The research is at best mixed on whether they really help. They siphon money from public schools. Plus, again, it puts children at the mercy of their parents. How about just making sure all public schools are at a certain level? What I especially cannot stand is when fingers are pointed at districts such as Detroit and Lansing for poor performance. True, the schools might be able to do a little better, but they are facing an uphill climb. It's easy to educate kids in Okemos and much harder in other places.

aamom

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 12:17 p.m.

@MetricSU "Your argument is one I hear all the time: "Funding is not important to student achievement. Oh, but don't you dare touch our funding." This is hypocracy at its worst." You're right. I shouldn't have said the funding didn't matter. The extra money spent in Okemos made my education more rich and diverse than my siblings, particularly in the fine arts area. But while fun and interesting, I still think my parents were the critical difference as my siblings did just fine coming out of Waterford. I felt that your posts were implying that kids in Mason (or wherever) don't have a good shot at life because the extra $2000 wasn't spent. I disagree with that and that was my point. I understand what you are saying about the fairness of the funding, but this is what I see happening in the long run: most anyone who can afford it in some sort of private school and the low income kids in public school. Even if the public schools are adequately funded, I'm not sure I think this is a good idea. When I was in high school (a while ago now), I knew of very few people who went to private school. I went to school with some really smart kids and they pushed me to be better also. When I look at the peer group for my kids I see a lot of those same kind of really smart kids that push everyone to be better at one of our many private schools in the area. Maybe this doesn't concern anyone else but it worries me. Out of curiosity, what do you think about vouchers?

Me Next

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 11:03 a.m.

$2,000 per child for the school year is all that's needed anywhere in the USA. I noticed the State pays different prices for different areas. That's part of the problem. You are paying for the "Education Organization" instead of Constitutional Duty as member of Our "more perfect union". Money is the object not conducting the process of guiding into Strong Citizenship. "budget gap" means a non-Education Agenda. Take the 3 Grades that will be short in class numbers. Educating would utilize their teachers who will have (or could have) down time to supplement the teaching of the basic 3 Rs in the other classes. Organization - organizing what you have to meet all the students' needs. Fulfilling the Legal Duty to make available the 3 Rs, equally & strictly focused. Families & students that abuse that right should not be rewarded nor allowed to disrupt those there to learn. "Favoring" is used to destroy them all. Sneaky way of making Local School tax payers pay for other localities. It's profitable to maintain failing students & communities. Not to the tax payers & not to the family.

MetricSU

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 10:45 a.m.

aamom: First, if you read my posts, you will see that I put Okemos nearly in the same category as AA. Okemos gets only about $8,400 per student, but that's still well above the minimum. Okemos is just barely under the "hold harmless" threshold, so it gets the best of both worlds: high funding, but all Okemos residents pay 6 mills. So, two homeowners that live across the school boundary with, say, Mason, both pay 6 mills, yet Okemos gets more than $1,000 more per student. Your argument is one I hear all the time: "Funding is not important to student achievement. Oh, but don't you dare touch our funding." This is hypocracy at its worst. I went to schools out west and they weren't as good as the ones here. So I know people can achieve in lots of environments. But many student's families are not very supportive. I refuse to write those kids off. And the fact that families are just as important as schools does nothing to address the argument of why people and businesses statewide should pay essentially the same property tax rate in AA just to have AA get much more funding. I haven't seen anyone respond to this yet. Where are the liberals who should care about the growing income inequality in Michigan? Proposal A drastically lowered taxes on the wealthy but kept their schools funded at a high level. That just perpetuates, even increases, the growing income gap between rich and poor. I would find it more refreshing if you AA parents would just say: "Our kids are better than yours and they deserve higher funding." That, at least, would be honest. As far as reduced funding in AA, I don't really know what to say. It's been happening statewide for years. If the district cannot keep up its core educational programs with more than $9,000 per student then I have no sympathy for the administrators in that district.

aamom

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 7:58 a.m.

@MetricSU - I agree with you that some districts (such as Detroit Public) are providing a substandard education and that needs to be fixed. But if I understood you correctly, it sounds as if you are saying that kids who don't get the same funding as AA are going to have to work menial jobs for high income people (I'm paraphrasing you). This has not been true for my family. My older siblings went to Waterford Schools. My parents were unhappy with them so they moved to a much smaller house in Okemos. This required my dad to drive more than an hour to work each day but it was worth it to them. I know you will say that I was just a lucky kid to have those parents (and I agree), the part that might be shocking to you is that my siblings and I all turned out equally successful *gasp*. No menial work for us. I don't think I was successful because I went to Okemos or they were in spite of going to Waterford schools. I think what mattered was that we had parents who taught us to respect teachers, do our homework and demand the best from ourselves. Funding levels had nothing to do with our success. A huge part of what makes AAPS so successful are our motivated, involved families. As our schools continue to decline here in AA, I'm worried about the large amounts of people I see moving to private schools. Not all of them are wealthy. In fact, several remind me of my parents by making great sacrifice to do what they see as best for their child. But I mourn the loss of these families in parent volunteer hours, donations to AAEF ad PTOs, and good academic role models in the classroom for everyone else. The schools are worse off without them. They are leaving because they see the quality of education changing as state funding declines. I know from your posts that you will say "good riddance to them" but I worry about the unintended consequence of driving a lot of people to private school and being left with something that isn't quite like what we started with.

MetricSU

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 6:19 a.m.

Steve: Who said I reacted with glee? The state of Michigan is in sad shape right now; it's about time those in AA recognized that. If the Section 20j payments were not cut, the $165 cut from other poor school districts last year would've been even higher. How about going to one of the many districts with a foundation allowance of about $7,300 and see what their proposed budget cuts are for the coming year? Have any of you people in AA asked why the district has to cut non frills when it gets $2,000 more per student than 67% of districts? Of course the cost of living is higher in AA. But where is that extra money going? How come AnnArbor.com doesn't assign someone to do a comparative analysis of, say, Dexter and AA? I know why. Because many people at AA.com have children in the AA public schools. The same stonewalling by those capable of doing the analysis happens around Lansing.

MetricSU

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 6:02 a.m.

Steve: I don't think you're reading my posts all that carefully. The point I made in one of my posts is that people, even in Wastenaw County, do not want to pay more taxes. That means we have essentially all the revenue that we will have, and we have to figure out what to do with it. Again, what is technically said about the 18 nonhomestead mills and what is true are two different things. As I said before, if a commmunity does not approve the 18 mills, they can lose as much as 10% of their foundation allowance. Yes, once again, the kids in such districts are hurt by their parents' shortsidedness. But the vast majority of districts pay the 18 mills, and then their allowance is fixed by a formula that was created in 1995, with tweaks here and there that have nothing to do how much revenue is collected by the 18 mills. You admit your foundation allowance has nothing to your nonhomestead revenues. Yet the fact that the state has declared that the nonhomestead millage "stays local" seems to make you feel better. I guess it served its purpose. Bitter about Section 20j? For $200 more per student, my district could've kept open an elementary school that it had to close, imposing inconvenience on everyone. Why would I take issue with the fact that the same year AA was taking $233 in Section 20j payments? Jack: See above. A few years ago people in Okemos and East Lansing experienced the same outcome in Ingham County. You and Steve have to live with the reality that MI has lots of cretins. And they turn their children into cretins. The only counterbalance is education. Of course, AA needs people to work at menial tasks to support the high income folks living there, so maybe this is all just fine with most of AA. At least Steve and Jack recognized the descrepancies -- even if their justifications are week. Most people I talk to either think their foundation allowance truly is tied to local property tax revenues or are unaware of the wide foundation differences. In Okemos, some seem puzzled -- for the fleeting moment they think about it -- that they have Lacrosse, Water Polo, violin in 5th grade, and so one when surrounding districts are shutting down schools.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 1:23 a.m.

Jack - You are about 70% right, but you forgot the "rest of the story". To get AAPS's taxpayer's money, they too would have had to agree to a higher tax rate. In much of the county there is no more blood in the turnip. Steve - Your comments still seem to say - My school deserves more than other schools, cause we have more we are willing to spend. Then you stand up for Equality and closing educational gaps. You still leave me in your writing with a strong Paradox.

Jack Panitch

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 12:46 a.m.

Metric SU: A half a year ago, the majority of the voters in Ann Arbor said to all other Districts here in the County, "take our money, please." We said, We have the resources, and were happy to share in order to weather this storm. Their reply? "Keep your money and mind your own business!" The enhancement millage went down in defeat. The tax base here in Ann Arbor, combined with the enhancement millage's redistributive effect, would have worked just the way you would like funding to work state-wide. However, your approach appears to ignore current political reality. Different jurisdictions value education differently. Notice that I did not say that concerned parents in Ann Arbor value education more than concerned parents in other districts; because that would be hogwash. It's all part of the political process: Proposal A, the defeat of the enhancement millage, the next victory or debacle. Hey, maybe we could lobby the federal government to equalize funding for public education among all the states as part of its Commerce Clause jurisdiction. After all, a kid from New Mexico should have the same chance at success as a kid from New York, right? The unequal opportunity must have some impact on interstate commerce. (Beware lowest of common what denominator you ask for, unless, of course, you have a hidden agenda and thats exactly what youre asking for.)

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Sat, Jun 5, 2010 : 12:29 a.m.

MetricSU, I fear that some of your information is still incorrect. I post here in order to set the facts straight for others reading this. The 18 mills on commercial property does indeed stay local. Quoting from a Senate Fiscal Agency overview of Proposal A: "A school district may levy with voter approval up to 18 mills or the number of local school operating mills levied in 1993, whichever is less, on nonhomestead property only. These funds are retained by the local school district to fund a portion of the foundation allowance." In contrast, the 6 mills on all property goes straight to the school aid fund: "Beginning in 1994, a State property tax of six mills will be imposed on all real and personal property currently subject to the general property tax. The revenue is dedicated to the School Aid Fund." You can find this document here: www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Publications/Issues/SchoolFinanceReform/SchoolFinanceReform.PDF Another useful analysis, of what funding districts might have had but for Proposal A, can be found here: www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Publications/Issues/PropA/ProposalATenYears.pdf You are correct, AAPS's foundation allowance is fixed by state formula. The only thing that fluctuates is the share of that covered by locally-retained property taxes (18 mills on commercial, and the hold-harmless on homestead) or by transfers from the School Aid Fund. As I said before, AAPS receives only about half its funding in state aid payments, while the state average is three-quarters. Your bitterness about 20j funding seems extreme, especially since the veto saved only about $52 million statewide in an overall School Aid budget of nearly $13 billion. But it did hurt us in Ann Arbor badly. I am sad to see that you embrace with such glee a cut which will significantly erode the quality of my children's schooling. If you'd like to see the effects, please take a look at the AAPS budget reduction plan. Then tell me it's all frills. Come to think of it, you seem to have a singularly narrow vision of the families who attend AAPS. We are a district of over 16,000 students, with a tremendous amount of diversity both in ethnicity and family income level. While we are certainly a well-off district overall, that certainly does not apply equally to every family here. We are committed to using the funding we have, and more funds we raise locally, to ensure that every child can make the most of the opportunities our schools offer regardless of their income level. If your values are as progressive as you assert, I am surprised that you would advocate that we take a step backward and have schools where only the wealthy really get a good education. That is not the direction to go. You are also correct that, given current realities, finding more resources for schools is very difficult. I ask you this: do we surrender to these "realities" or do we work to change them?

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 11:52 p.m.

DonBee and MetricSU, I do not support inequalities in education, especially if it means that some children are receiving an inadequate education. But it sounds as if your solution is to take whatever money we have now and simply divide it equally. That would be devastating to a small number of districts, but be of little benefit to most. I support increasing the total resources allocated to education, so that "hold harmless" districts like Ann Arbor can at least keep up with inflation (we have not) and other districts are raised to the level where they can provide a comparable education. (The cost would differ depending on location.) But who is willing to pay for that? "MetricSU", you may want to familiarize yourself with the debate over a proposed county-wide education millage here last November. It failed, in large part because many people were violently opposed to paying one more penny for schools. In fact, my organization - Michigan Parents for Schools - has been lobbying since 2007 for an increased state commitment to education. That means making the pie bigger while also slicing it more equally. The state legislature has been in deadlock over any permanent change to the taxes which support schools that would raise more revenue. The Senate majority has had a veto over any such action, and I suspect it will only get more difficult next year. If you are willing to pay a higher property tax, MetricSU, I applaud you. Unfortunately, under current law, you are not allowed to do that. That takes us right back to the impasse at the state legislature, which does have that power. As it is now, AAPS and some other districts have higher foundation allowances because they started out with higher per-pupil spending in 1994, when Proposal A went into effect. These districts were spending more for a combination of two reasons: they had a larger tax base, and/or they were willing to tax themselves more than other localities for good schools. I believe both were true for Ann Arbor, and Proposal A would never have passed if people were clear that it meant taking money away from any school that was spending more than average. Nor do I believe that cutting everyone down to the average is an effective way of improving education for all children. The gap between districts has narrowed considerably, and in that time, districts like Ann Arbor have lost considerable ground against inflation, unlike districts which started the process below the original "basic" funding level. AAPS itself has seen its per-pupil funding decline by nearly 9%, adjusting for inflation, from 1994-2009 (before the latest cuts). Districts at the old "basic" generally kept up with inflation over the same period, though they lost ground since 2000. Districts which had been below the old basic in 1994, and as a result got double the annual increase each year until they were all caught up in 2001, have done better than inflation, but mostly because of the rapid increases from 1994-2001. Under current law, districts at or above the hold-harmless level receive half of any increase (should we see one) as districts at the current minimum (which is the old basic). This will continue until all districts are at the state maximum, which is the hold-harmless level.

MetricSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 10:20 p.m.

DonBee: You said it more succinctly than I. Liberals in places like AA have shamefully looked the other way because their kids' schools have enjoyed high funding, even during the last 15 years when almost all funding comes from the state school aid fund. You think wealthy conservatives are going to worry about equalized funding across districts? How come it is more important for AA to have uncessary aides and a ton of extracurriculars than for other districts to have basic necessities? I wonder if we'll hear back from any of these people. Deep down they know their position is unsupportable and contrary to liberal ideals. And please no one suggest a return to the old system, where places like AA would undoubtedly agree to pay high property taxes for high funding. We should not hold children responsible for their parents' location decisions. All kids should have a chance at the same kind of education regardless of where their parents locate. Those kids then become adults who more fully appreciate the value of education.

DonBee

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:31 p.m.

Steve - Why are you for fixing the achievement gap in AAPS, but against fixing the achievement gap in the state as a whole. Your posts leave me confused. You say AAPS needs the funds to fix the achievement gap. Yet you indicate that funding should not be equal for all schools. Can you tell me how to reconcile your positions? I find this difference disconcerting. Detroit does not deserve the same funding as AAPS? Because AAPS paid more before, they should always get more? Because the people of AAPS have more disposable income they should get better schools from tax revenue than people with less?

MetricSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:30 p.m.

Steve: A few more comments after rereading your post and looking up numbers. In 2008-2009, AA's foundation allowance was 9,490.00, of which 233.35 was in Section 20j payments. That means $233.35 was taken out of the school aid fund -- money that could have gone to the two-thirds of the districts with a foundation allowance of $7,316. But, no, it was more important to ensure that AA kept that $2,000 per student cushion. It's true that the $233 got cut this year, but for how many years was it paid? And I know all about the history of 20j. It came about because of the Headlee cap. At that point, the state should've said "too bad" to hold harmless districts, and kept the 20j payments to prop up spending at lower funded districts. To get some idea of what $2,000 per student really means, that's $50,000 more per typical class (of 25 students). I hope AA is buying a lot of diversity and culture with that kind of money, especially when lots of other schools have textbooks and computers that haven't been replaced in years. I'm a very strong supporter of school funding and would love for funding at all schools to increase substantially. I'd gladly have my property tax rate double for that. But you're being disingenuous if you think there's any hope of that in this economy -- or even in a good economy. I didn't realize people in AA had such big blinders on when it comes to the rest of the state. At this point, the only way to keep some districts out of dire straits -- many are already there -- would be to shift around funding. Does AA really need to field Lacrosse and Water Polo teams? Should people statewide really be paying for Suzy to take violin in AA public schools, when her parents can easily afford it? Does each school in AA really need so many counselors and social workers? Have you ever wondered how some school districts -- Dexter, for example -- do pretty well with much less money? What happened to the notion of the common good, and paying based on one's ability to pay? Your appeal to what AA is doing with all that extra money would surely ring hollow the the majority of districts in the state -- districts just trying to get their kids to read at grade level.

MetricSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:12 p.m.

Steve, aataxpayer: Sorry to burst your bubble, but some of your facts are incorrect -- or, at least, distorted. First, Steve, if you read my post carefully, you will note that I mentioned that the Section 20j payments were not made this year. They should've been eliminated long ago. One can only hope they are not coming back. Second, you're wrong about the 18 mills on business and non-homestead properties "staying local." That is an accounting gimick used by the state so that school districts like AA can justify their high foundation allowances. The 6 mills and the 18 mills all go to the school aid fund. It is true that there is a penalty to districts that do not levy the full 18 mills, but the vast majority of the districts do. (If you aren't convinced that there's no sense in which the 18 mills "stays local," ask yourself how come AA's foundation allowance -- or that for any other district -- does not fluctuate with local business property values. It's because the foundation allowance is fixed by a formula. It has nothing to do with how much is collected by the 18 mill business/non-homestead tax in any particular district.) Here is where you are correct. Of course AA pays a higher share of the school aid fund than it gets back. That's because there are lots of businesses in AA and lots of expensive homes. But the RATE -- leaving aside the hold harmless millage -- is the same. So someone with their $1 million home in AA pays 6 mills, just like the person in Ypsilanti with the $50,000 home pays 6 mills. Proposal A is progressive insofar as really low spending districts were brought up to a minimum level, and spending was compressed at the upper end. But at the same time Proposal A was a huge windfall to homeowners in places like AA, whose property taxes fell from 30-something mills to around 9. Yet AA kept its high level of school funding. (True, it would be even higher under the old system. But then AA homeowners would be paying MUCH higher taxes.) Your reaction shows something that I have claimed for many years. When it comes to school funding, there's a tacit conspiracy among high income liberals and conservatives: they both want their kids to have an advantage in attending better schools. It's their dirty little secret. Regrettably, the typical person in the state doesn't know the situation, and might not care. But some of us do and will work toward true equalization. Again, let me ask how come liberals in AA aren't outraged at the following situation. People in, say, Okemos and Holt, are paying 6 mills in local property taxes for the School Fund. Business in both communities pay 18 mills. All that money goes to the school aid fund. And yet Okemos receives more that $1,000 more per student than Holt. So the Okemos kids come from better socioeconomic backgrounds, and the state of Michigan makes sure they stay on top by funding their schools at a higher level. Final comment for aataxpayer: Your 6 mills is buying a very high foundation allowance, so stop whining.

pseudo

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 8:33 p.m.

@ AAParent...couldn't tell if you were kidding or not but here is the website: www.homefair.com check out the schools info for yourself.

demistify

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 7:40 p.m.

I find something very puzzling: Just about all the cheer-leading above for AAPS gives diversity as a reason to choose it. Concurrently, we are having a lot of publicity about the school administration segregating the black students, thus defeating diversity. Perhaps we need open enrollment in the Lunch Bunch at Dicken School.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 6:48 p.m.

@MetricSU A couple of observations on your funding analysis. The state isn't really "making up" anything, because we contribute in other ways. The vast majority of the money that goes to the state School Aid Fund comes from the sales tax and a large fraction of the income tax. Even figuring in local property taxes, property taxes overall make up a minority of overall funding. When you look at that, AAPS and Washtenaw County generally are large net contributors to school taxes, mostly in the form of sales and income taxes paid. The six mills all homestead property owners pay goes straight to Lansing and the School Aid Fund. The 18 mills paid on commercial property stays local, as does the "hold harmless" millage if a district has one. When we did the calculation last fall, it turned out that AAPS got back about 38 cents on every dollar sent to the School Aid Fund in the form of the 6 mill education property tax, sales tax, and income tax. Even with our higher foundation, we are still helping to support other districts with that remaining 62 cents on the dollar. Statewide, on average, three quarters of the funding schools receive has been channeled through Lansing; the rest comes from local taxes that stay local (the 18 mills and hold harmless). In AAPS however, because of our relatively high property values, local taxes cover fully half of our funding allowance, with the other half coming from the state. AAPS receives more than other districts now because we were spending considerably more than most other districts in 1994 when Proposal A took effect. Since then, the growth in our funding has been much slower than for other, lower-spending, districts. The gap has narrowed, at least in part because districts at the high end got smaller increases. What you may not know is that the section 20j funding was vetoed in the 2009-10 school aid budget, and it seems it will not be restored in the future. That represented a $233 cut per pupil for Ann Arbor, larger than the $165 per pupil cut which we also absorbed along with every other district. (The 20j money was an oddity, designed to remedy a funny provision in the original law which prohibited hold-harmless districts from receiving any increase that was greater than inflation.) As a resident of AAPS, I believe that the extra funds we receive can be seen in the depth and breadth of programming you would find here. Standardized tests do not capture all the opportunities our kids receive in this district. We also, it is true, compensate our teachers well, and partly because of that we have a higher proportion of excellent, experienced teachers than other districts with higher turnover. This isn't "waste," it's an investment in the quality of our schools. If one is worried about equity in per-pupil funding, I don't think the solution is to cut the funds that districts like Ann Arbor get. Instead, other communities should have the opportunity to increase their own funding, with state help if their tax base will give them less than average return. Every child deserves an excellent education; you don't get that buy bringing every district down to a lower, but equal, level.

MetricSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 6:01 p.m.

Danielle: The Lansing-area schools that are highly ranked -- especially Okemos but also East Lansing -- make similar arguments. But those rankings are mostly based on MEAP test results. And AA and Okemos just get smarter kids, on average, because their parents are smarter (lots of university faculty and professionals). Having high MEAP scores does not necessarily mean the schools are better. It means the students have better students to work with. Do this thought experiment: suppose AA and Ypsilanti switched students for two years, and then the students took the MEAP. How do you think the averagescores would compare across the students? I doubt there'd be much difference than if the students stayed at their old schools.

MetricSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 5:50 p.m.

I'm from near the Lansing area and generally interested in school funding issues. What I find remarkable in these comments is not one person wonders about the $2,000 more per student AA gets relative to the basic foundation allowance. I suspect most of you think you are paying a higher tax rate for that. Actually, you are -- slightly -- because AA is a hold harmless district. But the state is making up some of the shortfall with Section 20j payments. How come all the liberals in AA -- I'm a liberal from Lansing -- are not outraged that, say, poor people in Ypsilanti are paying essentially the same tax rate as those in AA for kids in AA to get all of the advantages, such as foreign language classes, extra sports (Lacrosse, Water Polo), and extracurriculars such as orchestra? For the record: all MI residents pay a 6 mills rate on their homes, almost all business pay an extra 15 mills. Roughly 40 districts levy additional small millages because they are "hold harmless." But until this year, the state has been making up the difference created due to the Headlee cap. Ask yourselves: what would AA do with even $1,000 less per student, still leaving them in the top 10% of all districts? The waste must be mindboggling.

Danielle

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 4:29 p.m.

I wasn't going to comment but I noticed that there was an error in one of the comments posted. It states that perhaps Parents have realized that schools in the surrounding areas are equal or better than Ann Arbor Schools. I guess that I am a little confused I check the data and AAPS were ranked a 10 out of ten in Michigan's 2009-2010 Public School Ratings, were as Ypsilanti Public Schools scored a 4 out of 10 overall. More than a few YPS failed in national ratings, where as all of AAPS either passed or exceeded National Public School averages. So, I guess I would like to know which School Districts near AA are equal to or better than AAPS?

SudoNimAA

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 4:05 p.m.

bballcoach -- in case you haven't noticed, Ann Arbor has a high number of very highly educated citizens. Naturally, their children are going to do very very well in school! Having a large number of high performing students skews the scores upwards. It does not mean that all, or even the majority of students are doing so well. I have a child in advanced classes and a child in what is supposed to be college prep. There is a world of difference between the 2. It is the same for music, drama, and sports. Kids that have years of private training are naturally way ahead of kids that depend on public school programs. It is not what goes on in the school, it is what goes on outside the school that makes the difference here. That has been proven over and over again.

braggslaw

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 3:03 p.m.

I can't wait for the time when school are accountable to students and become consumer driven. I hope AAPS does not kill the golden goose.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 1:43 p.m.

This is exactly what I expected; they are working hard at wrecking the school system for the sake of social engineering. If you think it's going to be Saline parents sending their kids (in search of diversity :) ) you are a very naive. It is *NOT* to help the students presently attending A2 schools, that's for sure. The state gives something like $73-7500 for each of these incoming school of choice students, the rest (possibly adding up to THOUSANDS of dollars) will have to be made up by Ann Arbor tax payers. Yet this turkey was brought up during the school budget crisis... as a way to save money! Who would believe that? Even if the County pays something it will still end up costing and that's not good for Ann Arbor. Right now you probably have to get your child there... so the numbers are small. But wait til the buses are running back and forth to Ypsi. That's the REAL REASON they want to merge the school transportation system, to help poor underprivileged students to the west of A2 get here. Not to save money. That's why they naturally had to bring up BOTH of these "cost saving" ideas (school of choice and integrated busing) at the same time (you can't have the "social change" they are looking for without it). Don't believe for a minute it's going to "enrich" the educational environment for A2 students. More likely we are going to have more schools with an "achievement gap" in the future, which will require more effort and time from teachers to help those not achieving at the expense of YOUR CHILD. The point for many people to living in this city is the school system. If you can go to school here from the surrounding communities, at no extra expense to yourself, that will only lead to people moving out. I know more than a few people who will be happy to sell their $400k house for a $300 or $200k house (of the same size) outside of town with less taxes paid as a result. How does that help? While Ann Arbor usually votes for new school monies at election time, other communities do not have the same record of valuing education. This is so badly thought out it's really hard to fathom. Many schools in Detroit suburbs are now made up of 1/3 Detroit students and have many more problems as a result. They are years into this experiment and the number of high achieving honors students from outside the district is practically NIL. So much for wanting a better education. The Madison Heights school system is now HALF school of choice students, mostly from Detroit, with an almost equal number of Madison Heights natives having pulled their kids out of the M.H. public school system in response. They were also told it was going to save money. It didn't. Property values have fallen more than average as people move out. None of that seems to matter to some people because they always had a different agenda. It's nothing more than busing from the 1970's reincarnated, except you can now bring in students from SEVERAL CITIES AWAY (like Madison Heights does with Detroit) and not just different parts of the same city. Hello West Willow, welcome to Ann Arbor!

Klayton

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 1:43 p.m.

I too believe Ann Arbor is a good school district (despite the crazy decisions made by the board....half empty high school!!!) I also agree with many who have stated that Ann Arbor has a special and unique gift to their students---exposure to a wide range of people from high to low income, all different races, religions (I think Bryant-Pat has 29 different languages spoken there! Awesome!). I think it is a wonderful gift to give a child diverse experiences and exposure (not just talk). Tolerance, empathy, understanding, and respect are easier to teach and learn about when it is part of the students lives. While I also believe Saline, Dexter, and Chelsea have fantastic teachers, they can only really "talk" about diversity. I used to teach high school social studies in a school similar to Dexter and I know that difficulty of trying to teach diversity in a homogeneous setting.

bballcoachfballfan

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 1:01 p.m.

I am not surprised at the results of the open enrollment which was flawed from the beginning because of the grades the district chose to open. It seems to me, if you want a significant boost in district enrollment, you must open your high schools to people from outside the district. This is the time when most parents really begin to evaluate whether or not their district fits the needs of their child. I admit, I am a coach at Pioneer and would love the idea of students choosing our school. But aside from our outstanding academics, AAPS boasts tremendous athletics, national honor level music, elite level drama, etc. These are all things that would certainly bring high school kids to Pioneer, Huron and Skyline--but probably won't do anything for kids in K, 1st or 6th. Now that we have alleviated our crowding problem by opening Skyline, I am not sure why we wouldn't use our most valuable recruiting tools--our high schools. And I have to strongly disagree with some of the comments that districts outside of Ann Arbor are vastly superior (someone said Hartland???). Come on folks--if you don't like diversity, you aren't going to enjoy the experience here. But to say Hartland is superior to Ann Arbor academically cannot be supported by any statistic. I believe the AAPS has had the highest average ACT score of any public school district in the state for the past several years--or at least near the very top each year. The education here is top rate. We have our problems but the education is fantastic. And, the elementary school my daughters attend has over 40 countries represented--a social/cultural education a child will not receive at Hartland, Saline, Chelsea, Dexter--or anywhere else in this state.

HaeJee

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 12:43 p.m.

Here is a possible solution for AAPS. Focus on keeping the enrolled students they currently have by educating their staff of customer service with students and parents. Often, the attitude and action they take tell parents that they do not care about the retention of the current student population. This is often the case with all schools.

Chris

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 12:35 p.m.

How is this social engineering? The simple fact is that the AAPS has a budget gap to overcome and they are hoping to attract more students to the district - it's a business decision. Since this is the first time they have participated in the schools of choice, maybe that drove the decision to limit the # of grades open to this move. People are so quick to criticize the district without offering solutions/ideas. Participate.

HaeJee

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 10:59 a.m.

AAPS is a great option for parents looking for diversity for their children. Regards to education..... same as other schools. My biggest complaint for AAPS is the decline in the administration in the past 5 years. We can't ever get a response from the administration office when we contacted them about changing schools for our children in the AAPS to the school they had previously attended. It took calling the Superintedent's office to get a counselor from Skyline to contact us after 2 months. The principals that we loved working with, because they would talk to the students and parents have left.

uawisok

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 10:55 a.m.

We moved to A2 from a mono tone culture about 30 minutes southwest for the explicit reason we wanted our children to experiance diversity. We are happy we did and our children who are now young adult interact comfortably with a wide range of races and cultures and are enriched by their interactions. They appreciate what different perspectives can bring and are not afraid to interact with people who look different they they do. Thank you Ann Arbor and Ann Arbor Schools!!

PittsfieldTwp

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 10:08 a.m.

Willow Run --> Ypsi --> Ann Arbor --> Saline The grass is always greener in the district just West of where you live.

bruceae

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:40 a.m.

@braggslaw. In some sort of sick kind of way I really believe that the administration in Ann Arbor believes that this social engineering makes for a better school system. My daughter was in K - 5 at King Elem. and I got so fed up with hearing about achievement gap and how we had to bring up the lower performing students that we moved to the Hartland District when she went into 6th grade. This district is far superior to A2 and I thankful every day we aren't dealing with the A2 school system problems.

HaeJee

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:36 a.m.

Our children have attended different schools in approximately 6 districts, 5 being in Michigan. Being an educator and evaluating the differents schools: the reason why we keep coming back to AAPS if for the diversity and school culture. "Majority" of the schools in AAPS has a school culture of communicating with children in a different manner. You cannot compare AAPS to the surrounding schools. AAPS takes pride in being progressive and uses the education research from local colleges to continuously provide our students with a learning environment that promotes higher learning. If you have a group of students from each school and had a conversation with them, you will find that AAPS students are more aware of current events and can relate what they are learning to what is happening in our world. AAPS does have their issues, but majority of the time if is the fault of the leadership. Like every school, the ratio of getting a good teacher and principal is like every school. Another thing to consider is that the competition is much higher academically and can be more difficult for a struggling student to get lost.

braggslaw

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 9:05 a.m.

Dexter, Saline, Chelsea all have great schools. (Saline is probably better) Why would they send their kids to Ann Arbor to participate in social engineering?

eCoaster

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 8:47 a.m.

Eberwhite School was open enrollment (that is, for AAPS families only) when my son attended there. Due to poor planning, his grade became overenrolled to the point where he and a handful of his peers were assigned to a "split" classroom with students a grade ahead. This was done just weeks before the start of school, without any preparation or forethought. It was a terrible year. And from I have read here, I don't trust that AAPS has the policies, administrators and teachers in place to pursue open enrollment more widely. Both of my sons now attend private school.

ToddAustin

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 8:41 a.m.

We presently live in a community adjacent to Ann Arbor and our child is not yet of school age. I would consider using the schools of choice option, but not for reasons of academic quality. The schools where we live have an excellent reputation, high graduation rates, etc., so that's not what would attract me to Ann Arbor schools. The simple fact is that our district is painfully monotonic in ethnic terms. I prefer the diverse cultural community that is found in Ann Arbor schools and feel it's a better place to educate our child, for that reason alone. Going to school where all the kids look like you, where all their parents come from the same religious/racial/cultural background is extremely limiting and not at all conducive to a balanced educational experience. Ann Arbor would do well to advertise this strength as it seeks to expand interest in the program.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 8:21 a.m.

There's also the matter of total population to consider for kids in these grades. For example, one of my children will be entering sixth grade next year. The number of students born in that year (1999) in Washtenaw County is lower than average by a couple hundred, so there are fewer total sixth graders to go around. I'm not sure the same is true of the incoming Kindergarten and first grade classes, but it could be a factor that explains at least some of the perceived non-interest in Ann Arbor Public Schools by out-of-district families. Another factor that can impact the number of available students is birth month. In Michigan, students can start school at the age of 4 if their birthday falls before December 1. In any given year (if births were distributed roughly evenly across the months...) as many as 25% of the potential students (those born in September, October and November) could either start school or wait a year. Maybe parents are opting to wait this year? I also agree with other commenters that opening only the "transition" grades doesn't work for many families. You'd have one kid going in one direction and another kid (or kids) going in the other direction every morning to get to school. Too much chaos too early in the morning. Parents also have a lot more perceived choice when it comes to schools these days. I suspect that many parents who were unhappy with their local public school district have already removed their children from the local system. If they are happier with the option they selected, they're not likely to be looking for more alternatives. Then there's always the possibility that those of us who live outside of Ann Arbor... well, just didn't care... :)

David Jesse

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 7:43 a.m.

FYI - On Sunday, we'll publish a more comprehensive look at schools of choice, including some very interesting data on how many students each district in the area is gaining through schools of choice and how many students each district is losing.

SudoNimAA

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 7:16 a.m.

My experience in another elementary school that filled openings in 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades is that a lot of the students that arrived were having problems at their previous schools. Since there was bunch of them coming in at one time, it overwhelmed the resources and the kids that were already weren't able to get help. Also, it was quite disruptive. Not saying this would happen, but I would proceed cautiously when considering other grades in this.

C6

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 7:07 a.m.

Perhaps the "schools of choice" aren't in Ann Arbor...

Art Vandelay

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 6:54 a.m.

Let me get this straight. The school board and administration allow an elementary school principal to violate their own policy and state law by encouraging racial segregation. Then the principal yells at his students who think that it is wrong. The entire country is outraged and the story makes national headlines. Still the prinicpal apparently receives no disciplinary action. And now they are surprised that other communities don't want to send children to their school? For such an "educated" community it's really amazing how out of touch the school leadership is with reality.

local

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 6:03 a.m.

Ann Arbor needs to open it up to all grade levels, which would help out in many cases. If I have an incoming 3rd grader and 1st grader, it would be a lot easier to have the 3rd grader admitted as well as the 1st grader. When you limit to specific grades, you limit interest as well. But yes, I think other area schools have a lot to offer as well.

pseudo

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 6:02 a.m.

Certainly the relocation reporting for on-line places like homefair.com say the educational climate in Ypsilanti Schools is "average"...and for Ann Arbor? "average". Combine that with schools size differentials and someone might conclude that Ypsilanti might be able to offer kids more individual attention than Ann Arbor. I am not suggesting one school system is better than another just that the data doesn't support switching a kid over to Ann Arbor.

GoblueBeatOSU

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 5:49 a.m.

Perhaps parents realize that many of the schools in the surrounding area are equal to or better than AA schools, that would explain the lack of interest.

DonBee

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 5:48 a.m.

County wide busing would make it easier for younger children and children of families where all of the adults in the household work. Just over 100 is not bad, about double what I expected. I don't have the formulas at hand, I wonder if the county-wide millages are by student? If so then there is more than the state money that will follow these students.

Jim Mulchay

Fri, Jun 4, 2010 : 5:38 a.m.

Not being a professional educator, I think that attending an "outside area" school would (in general) better for an older student (middle or high school age?) than a younger student. Perhaps that is part of the reason for the shortfall? To me some of the advantages of attending your traditional school (at an early age) are friends in the same class, neighbors with children in the same schools (same bus routes in some cases), PTA, perhaps better access to teachers and school information.