sh1

Sat, Jan 23, 2010 : 4:37 p.m.

Jen, you were misinformed about a child being kept below their own reading level. The whole point of finding a student's level is to select books for them at that level. If you know of a case where it isn't happening, inform the principal.

DonBee

Sat, Jan 23, 2010 : 2:27 p.m.

@ Dagny J - When I went to school in the 1960's they let children move between grades for reading and math (reading was first thing in the morning, math at the end of the day). This meant that first graders could take 5th grade reading and 5th grade math if they had the skills. The Teachers were responsible for deciding who moved where. No extra teachers, no extra costs. Kids moved up and down as it made sense. If you were beyond 6th grade reading material you went to the library, which was overlooked by the principal's office (big glass window) and read from the newspaper or other materials in the library for the hour. This meant that by mid-year the 1st and 2nd grade groups were small and the teachers could focus on the students who were struggling. Same thing in math. It was an honor to go to the library 2 times a day. From that grade school (my class of 34, yes 34) there were 3 that went to miltary academies (including the quarterback for Air Force), 4 that went to MIT (from Michigan), 1 that went to Oxford for a Roades Scholarship, and only 3 did not go on to college (1 died in an auto accident). This is in a western Michigan blue collar town. One that was way below the average for salaries for teachers. Net of the story, we have lost the initiative to give students the challenge they need to stay engaged in schools over the last 40 odd years. We need to encourage the schools to think outside the box and the move the kids ahead (because if you don't it will hurt their self-image) and look at really challenging them and educating them. My oldest will end up in the miltary because he is so bored with school he is disrupting and doing poorly, even though he missed max-ing out the SAT by 40 points (total) and only missed max-ing the ACT by 3 points total (aggregate). With his grades, he will not have any college choices, and he needs to learn to perform under a challenge to succeed in college anyway. We did everything we could to keep him engaged in school, but the schools did not offer him anything that would engage him day to day. Many parents, and I have talked with a lot of them, have chosen to pull their children out, because the AAPS system - to them - is too much of a factory that makes one size of shoes - regardless of your size. While I am not sure I agree with it, it is the perception of many parents. It is also the perception that AA Open and Community are only for the elite. Again I am not sure I agree. If we want parents to think about AAPS first, we need to change these perceptions. What I hear from people is "AAPS grade schools are all about bringing the bottom students up, there is nothing for average or high achievement students" "AAPS middle schools are nothing more than warehouses" "AAPS high schools are pushing kids to excel for college and there is nothing in them for children who want do something other than college". These are common comments I hear from people at parties, meetings and social gatherings. It is the perception of the public that AAPS needs to fix. That may mean that some of the programs may need to be fixed and it may mean that only more effective PR needs to be done. I am not smart enough to know how much is smoke and how much is fire. there are no hard numbers about what is and is not working in the schools that I can analyze like I can the budget numbers. Remember your milage will vary. Please do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

Julie

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 8:41 p.m.

Dagny, I never claimed anything about student achievement. I'm more interested in a student's experience of their education, their childhood, their days and weeks. I also happen to agree with the Open school paradigm, of meeting a student where s/he is academically, of more project-based learning, of more freedom in the classroom. I chose this sort of environment for my child not because I think she will "achieve" higher test scores, or a bigger salary. I chose it because I thought it would contribute to better childhood years. Better school years. Because she'd enjoy it, and it would be enriching.

DagnyJ

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 8:21 p.m.

Julie, if we could turn an existing school into a magnet, with exactly the same number of staff in the building now, I'm all for it. But...I would not support any additional transportation costs for children currently at the school or those who would attend. Also, I would not want to add costs because special ed students would need to be transported, etc. So if you could create a magnet school that didn't cost more money, terrific. Go for it. That said, I would also ask that you provide evidence, as I mentioned above, that such schools actually produce greater student achievement than other schools. And for students like those in Ann Arbor. Comparing us to an urban minority district wouldn't really be correct.

scott newell

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 8:20 p.m.

before i cut anything i would stop mowing the vast lawns around every school in the district. probably save a million right there. anyway, those are the kinds of things i'd look at FIRST, before anything else. there are MANY ways to reduce the budget that haven't been considered yet.

Julie

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 3:58 p.m.

Dagny, so dismissive! How do you know it would be expensive??? Seriously.... Ann Arbor Open is at the LOWER cost end of the spectrum. Adding K-8's in place of under-enrolled schools and attracting more parents that way (including those who want a smaller middle school enviroment) sounds pretty cost EFFECTIVE to me. And same thing with a language magnet. Especially if it's immersion. No extra cost there. These are creative ways to meet demand and remain a City where people WANT to come and bring their innovations, businesses, and creative minds; work at our Universtity, etc. It's a win-win. And if you are super happy about your public school choice -- great! Many people clearly are. This will just help make MORE people happy about staying in the district. You don't have to like it or agree with it or take advantage of it. And it will save money, not cost money.

DagnyJ

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 2:41 p.m.

Why win them back? These "choices" are expensive, and providing every permutation of every educational structure is financial not feasible at a time when we are looking at cutting teacher pay, closing schools, etc. The thing I find laughable is that parents like choices, but they know quite little about the education of children. Every parent I have met in this town is convinced that their offspring are above average and need education tailored to their abilities. I wish someone could provide some evidence that open schools are actually better. I mean, beyond the simple anecdote about how one or two children did well. That's not evidence.

Julie

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 1:38 p.m.

Dagny, you really are missing the point. It is pretty clear that parents like choices. And many parents choose outside the AAPS, for all sorts of reasons. Trying to convince them they are wrong is just silly. And ineffective. I've said it before..... take a couple of under-enrolled schools and change them into what parents DO want -- K-8 schools, Open schools, language immersion. We WILL win back many of those parents who chose not to send their kids to AAPS.

DagnyJ

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 1:19 p.m.

PS. My kid was reading books in first grade that were end of year 5th grade. And was educated in *gasp* a public school setting with kids who did not read as well. And believe it or not, some of the non-readers now surpass my child in high school. Go figure.

DagnyJ

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 1:16 p.m.

I had a child like this. And here's a newsflash: other kids caught up and by the end of second grade things were much less lopsided. Another point, there is more to school than reading chapter books. One solution that was terrible was to move my child up to more complex books before he had the knowledge to understand them. Sure, he could read the words. But he did not have the background knowledge to know what they actually meant. If it's kindergarten, we are talking about a five year old. Whoever the parents are, they should relax and enjoy it. Just because the kid reads now doesn't mean he's going to end up a Doogie Howser. Segregating this child could be disastrous for him in other ways. Unless, of course, you are really concerned about having your kid in school with "people like us."

limmy

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 8:39 a.m.

I can't believe people are complaining about opportunities for "advanced" students. AAPS totally caters to them and their influential parents! Try going to a school like Pioneer with a child that really is an average student and you will see what happened. It is one experience with exclusion after another. The money goes to the real low performers and the high performers. The middle kids are just there so they can collect their state funds and divert them to the "advanced" students whose parents have always had way more than their share of influence. There are tons of opportunities for them and very few for middle of the road students.

DagnyJ

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 7:43 a.m.

AMOC, you might want to check the research on "ability." The vast majority of well-educated parents assume their children have greater "ability." And by segregating these "able" children, parents make them less able to deal with the diverse population in the US, in terms of race, background, etc. I am so amused. It's hard to believe that the Ann Arbor elementary schools, those bastions of mediocrity that leave "able" students bored, have actually produced students who have gone on to become Rhodes Scholars, Pulitzer Prize Winners, etc. Private schools have a field day here because so many buy into the idea that their kid is so much more able. Oh, and most "ability" tests like IQ actually measure whether a kid comes from a rich or poor family. Kids from affluent families do better. Private schools love this. The world is full of situations where able adults have to sit down and shut up. It's not a bad thing to learn to control yourself, even if you are "gifted."

AMOC

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

@treetowncartel - You said "While so many parwents claim their kids are 'advanced" there are very few who are a the genius category, most of them were just groomed well by their parents. Putting a kid in an advanced setting prevents them from dealing with the broad stroke of society and hinders their ability to interact socially with all dfferent types of people." You have no idea how bigoted and unfairly discriminatory your statement is, and how much damage that attitude, which seems to be common among the AAPS staff who have posted here, does to the students in our schools who have high academic ability. Especially those gifted students whose parents are of low SES, minorites or who are brilliant scholars in low-paid fields such as music performance or Romance Languages. Those kids have no chance at all to attend private schools, which cost $10-12,000 per student and parents who can transport them daily in addition to the fairly high local property tax burden we in Ann Arbor shoulder. Nor will most of the private schools for gifted students provide accommodations for students who are both gifted and have other special needs, even if the family can otherwise afford the tuition. They are private schools, they need not admit those high-cost, high-needs students. Any enrichment provided to high-ability elementary and middle schoolers in AAPS is completely at the discretion of the classroom teacher(s); there is no program or system to the "enrichment" which may or may not be related to the curriculum. The district also strongly resists acceleration (grade skipping), mostly on the same misguided "work and socialize across all ability levels" grounds you quote. So the students with the highest potential, the ones who could score at advanced levels on the MEAPs when they walk in the door in September, are told, year after year, to "sit down and shut up", to "let someone else have a chance to answer", and are regularly tormented by their fellow students and sometimes by insensitive teachers because of their quirky interests, their advanced vocabulary and their sensitivity to schoolyard injustice. Is it any wonder that when they finally get to high school where some options for advanced work are allowed, many of them are turned off by school and think it is irrelevant to their future? That they drop out unless they can get into a program like CHS which respects their self-determination? Or just blend quietly into the woodwork in our large comprehensive high schools, wasting much of their potential?

AMOC

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 4:42 p.m.

@ Jan Eyer --- You said the district takes exit interviews when students leave the district. Since when? I pulled my kids from AAPS in 2007 over a series of problems with a teacher bullying them and never heard a word from anyone at the district office. That was a large part of why I finally turned to home schooling. I could not get the building administrator or the central office administrator to take my complaint seriously.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 3:18 p.m.

I'm puzzled at why so many people are focusing on closing schools as the best way to save money. As long as our student counts are not dropping dramatically, as they have been in Ypsilanti and Willow Run, closing schools does not make financial sense. In contrast, our student counts grew until a few years ago, and have remained remarkably stable given the economic upheaval. Just because closing schools looks dramatic does not make it the best option for cutting costs in all circumstances. According to the district, the savings from simply closing an elementary school in AAPS (principal, office staff, custodial, energy, etc.) is about $600,000. The vast majority of the cost of running a school is in the teachers and other support staff who would still be needed if those kids were allocated to other schools. The children who used to live in those two elementary districts could not simply bussed around town to other schools; there would have to be a wholesale redistricting of all elementary school boundaries. If about 60 children left the district as a result of this upheaval, it would wipe out the savings from closing a school building. We all need to remember that "capacity" means the number of rooms available. I assure you that the extra capacity is mostly in empty rooms, because the district allocates teachers to buildings in a very tight formula which keeps the building average class size (k-5) at least 18 to 1. (Fifth grade is kept at about 28 to 1, and the ratio gets smaller as the kids get younger.) This is why it makes more sense to attract more families INTO the district, so that those rooms could be filled with children and justify hiring a teacher to run the classroom. Rather than make a fuss about closing schools, I am surprised more people are not talking about the proposals for across-the-board pay and benefit cuts, which at 4% stand to save the district $5 million a year, compared to the questionable $600,000 that might be saved from closing an elementary building. We may or may not agree about the wisdom of this and related proposals (cuts or privatization in transportation and custodial), but the scale of these costs and potential cuts dwarfs the costs of simply running a building. Moreover, any moves that would serve to scare families away from the district, rather than attracting them, have the potential of being self-defeating and sparking a downward spiral (such as we have seen in other local districts).

PhillyCheeseSteak

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 1:05 p.m.

The Ann Arbor Public Schools are facing a fiscal crisis, with no light at the end of the tunnel, until the Michigan legislature figures out a new educational funding system. We can't hold our breath waiting for that to happen. Tough financial conditions means making tough financial decisions. Ann Arbor's 20 elementary schools are under capacity by 900+ students. *** Close 2 elementary schools immediately after this school year ends. Ann Arbor's 5 middle schools are under capacity by 1,000+ students. *** Close 1 middle school immediately after this school year ends.

fed-up

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 12:30 p.m.

Southpaw, I may be inccorect in this but I have heard several times that starting next school year the state is mandating that Kidenergarten to full-day therefore making your concern a mute point.

YpsiLivin

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:26 a.m.

So-called specialty schools tend to have a "flavor-of-the-month" feel about them. Ypsilanti tried several "magnet" schools (including science, technology, arts, etc) with the results being largely dismal. Think carefully about this approach before simply assuming that it will work.

treetowncartel

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:26 a.m.

Ah, the advanced child concept rears its head. my kid is special and needs a special school. What your kid needs is the teacher's ability to be flexible with the curriculum. Right now, they are forced to try and get the whole class to do well on the MEAP. thus, those who could be in another book are forced to endure studying they don't need instead of advancing on their own. While so many parwents claim their kids are 'advanced" there are very few who are a the genius category, most of them were just groomed well by their parents. Putting a kid in an advanced setting prevents them from dealing withthe broad stroke of society and hinders their ability to interact socially with all dfferent types of people. Lets get away from the standardized tests and allow the teachers to judge each child's aptitude independently and tailor the learning for each kid accordingly.

teaset

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 7:54 a.m.

Jen's comment about not attracting families at the elementary level due to lack of enrichment is an excellent point. I have long been frustrated by this, and I know I am not alone. The brighter children are allowed to coast while efforts are focused on the children who struggle. Some teachers take it upon themselves to provide extra activities to the more advanced students, but many do not. I was looking forward to my children attending the public high schools because then finally they will have AP classes and other such options, but now with budget cuts, I feel those opportunities are threatened, too. Private school is not an option for us. Right now the future feels pretty bleak.

Anne R.

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:33 p.m.

Offer more specialty schools. Science focus. Arts focus. Student-involvement focus. When students and their families choose the schools they want to attend, they buy in to the program and work hard to remain. Schools like Mack Open and Community High are so popular they have to turn people away every year. Small high schools are proving to be effective all over the US. Offer such and new students will come. And our current students will be less likely to leave for private schools.

Anne R.

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:28 p.m.

If some of the schools of choice offered interesting, alternative, specialized approaches to education, we could gain many outside "paying" students. Offer a science or arts specialty school. Or add more classes like those in Mack "open" school, where students and their families are a strong part of the program, helping to create effective, really interesting classes. Or have another small high school like Community. These schools are always over-booked. Expand specialties. Offer more choice!

southpaw

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 9:36 p.m.

Parents of future Kindergarteners - They are also proposing to cut bussing of Kindergarten kids at the noon hour. This means the morning class would have to find ride home, and the afternoon kids would have to find a way to get to school! When I complained about this during the public meeting, they said "well, you can just send them to aftercare". I have a problem with the insensitivity of that as the solution. This would have a big impact on lots of families, and this cut has been ignored by the annarbor.com reporters.

DagnyJ

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 7:02 p.m.

I love the notion of being educated "at their level." That is, segregating children by ability. It is segregation, although by choice. I haven't seen anything at Emerson that makes it special...except for the select student population of the wealthy.

citrus

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

Jen, I agree that reaching to/capturing parents of elementary school students before they go to private schools is a good idea, and a lost opportunity. I'm not encouraged by recent experience--and certainly not by these recent comments! Last year we made the very difficult decision to send our child to Emerson. (Apparently we are "fooling ourselves...") The negativity, judgements, and downright venom surrounding high IQ is pretty bad. Even Alan G called IQ testing elitist, and put it on the same level as restaurant snobbery. Dagny dismissed it as financial giftedness. To advocate for your kid to be educated at a level equal to their ability does NOT mean that you think there shouldn't be special education. Nonetheless, the principal at our local school, and many others immediately jump to that conclusion. I can't speak for the charter schools, but I can say that for our situation Emerson is better. Nobody sneers at us or at her for being what she is. They don't assume we are making it up. She can work several grades ahead in some areas and be behind in others. The contact from our local school told us to wait until 3rd grade, because everybody would even out. For three years, my child was supposed to sit there waiting for the curriculum to catch up. We really wanted public to work, and had several meetings posing questions in various ways. We are not financially gifted and it's very likely we won't be able to afford this much longer. In conclusion, on the topic of taking out of district students--I think they should. AAPS schools are some of the best schools around for many students. I wish they could rebuild the bridge to the "lost" families, but I don't think there is the money or the mindset to do that right now. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of advanced or gifted students within the public system who are doing well. I am saying that our first ventures into the system did not give us confidence that our kid would be one of them.

sh1

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 5:46 p.m.

"But I know some who...ultimately went to private schools because of the lack of opportunities for advanced kids." I think many parents who prefer private schools do so because they feel the diversity of a public school classroom does not provide their children with enough of the teacher's time. Their kids might have to wait while someone else is receiving help. If their kids can go to a school where the at-risk kids are weeded out, there is a less diverse, more homogeneous student population who have more in common with each other.

PhillyCheeseSteak

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 2:59 p.m.

Big cuts in the school budget are needed and I am surprised that the topic of closing some schools has not yet been addressed. If you look at the "A User Friendly Version of the FY 2009/10 Budget Prepared for the Community and Staff" which has been available at the meetings (and on the schools' web site), you can do the math and see that the elementary and middle schools are under-enrolled. Especially the middle schools -- under capacity by 1,000+ students! # of Students Under Capacity * Clague = 229 * Forsythe = 103 * Scarlett = 355 * Slauson = 216 * Tappan = 257 TOTAL = 1,160 Immediately after this school year, Ann Arbor should close 1 to 2 elementary schools and 1 - 2 middle schools, eliminating those principals, office staff, and the cost of maintaining physical buildings (heat, etc.). Not popular but necessary! The administration likes to point out that current funding has dropped to 2001/2002 level, however, the number of students in the district has dropped to numbers last seen between FY 2000 and FY 2001 (again according the AAPS Student Count History section of the "User Friendly Version..." booklet). Finally, Ann Arbor Open @ Mack, is the only "middle" school at full capacity. Maybe the district should consider another 1 or 2 K - 8 schools? If you compare the various schools'"cost per student", AA Open is on the low end, perhaps because they only have 1 principal. Of course, Ann Arbor Open is another popular program, like Community H.S., that requires a lottery to get into.

tmo

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 2:01 p.m.

Jen, they choose private schools because it is inevitable that in the public school system, there will be classes where good students are frustrated by a those who don't want to be there and are extremely disruptive. My child moved last year from a private school to Pioneer where freshmen are not offered advanced level choices for English and Biology. Let's just say her teachers in these courses struggled unsuccessfully to keep order and my child complained bitterly. Do I think the result would be different at a private high school - yes. For those who consider Community to be the solution to this problem, how is it that a lottery system represents a solution?

mars

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 1:50 p.m.

When I was a kid, my parents decided to take me out of AAPS so that I could attend a parochial school. It had nothing to do with academics or lack of opportunities - I was doing well in public school. There's probably nothing AAPS could have done to change their minds - they wanted me to get a religious education.

DagnyJ

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 1:12 p.m.

I would love to know why people leave AAPS, after enrolling here. Do you think they all leave because they don't get into Community? Jen, people who leave with advanced students are kidding themselves. They choose Emerson, School for the Financially Gifted thinking it is somehow better.

Dion

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:53 p.m.

"Teachers will tell you in every class there are two kids who take up 80 percent of a teachers time. Bad kids require more resources, and I just would want to make sure that doesnt happen, he said." Sorry to bust his bubble there are already disruptive students in the AA school district.. just like there are in all school districts.. I guess he forgot about the high school students from the high school in AA that ROBBED a bank!

YpsiLivin

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:37 p.m.

Jen, I would suggest that Dr. Roberts' enrollment figures for private schools in Ann Arbor is woefully short. Using relatively recent enrollment figures from most (but not all) private schools in Ann Arbor, their enrollment appears to be more like 3,000-4,000. Your question assumes that private school students enrolled in AAPS, found something they didn't like and left. In reality, many (but not all) private school students start in private schools and never leave. Parents choose their schools for many reasons including religious affiliations, past personal experience, location, size, programs, personnel, etc. It's not as though parents who choose private schooling for their children are somehow unaware that a "free" public school education is available. Instead, they've arrived at the conclusion that a private school option offers a better alternative for their children than what's available from the local public school district. Second, moving a child from one school to another is not like switching phone companies or choosing a different grocery store. Changing schools can be highly disruptive for a child, so it's a major decision for most people and it's not undertaken lightly.

Julie

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:21 p.m.

I agree with Jen. And I bet that to attract those kids back to the district, we do so with more creative magnet-type programs. Take a low-enrolled school and make it a foreign language magnet, or even an immersion school where half the day is spent learning in another language. Make another Open school.

MjC

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:21 p.m.

I'd like to see school of choice also mean that indistrct students can decide which middle school and/or high school they want to attend. Competition is a good thing in this world.

Lehigh

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:03 p.m.

Jen, thanks. We had a similar question at our table last night. Also wonder how many Ann Arbor school-aged children are home schooled, and if that ratio is rising? Our table was lukewarm on the school of choice concept. My kids' elementary school is packed. But after considering it, I'm more in favor of the concept. I'd be against schools of choice if all school funding came from local property taxes. But it doesn't, and it makes sense to recruit in order to increase funding. As Andrew Thomas points out, parents who are willing to drive miles to get their kids to school will likely be motivating their child at home. If you want to see motivated parents, check out the pickup/dropoff at South Arbor Academy sometime.

Lisa Starrfield

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:51 a.m.

Jen, I don't even know if the district knows why they left but 1000 kids would be a lot of revenue and the district has been complaining about a tight budget for a while. However, I can't recall them actively campaigning to bring these kids back to public schools. I wonder why.

nicole

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:42 a.m.

School of choice could be a good like I love the Ann Arbor schools and would not send my children anywhere else. For school of choice if parents are required to drive their kids to school in Ann Arbor they must want to make a difference in their kids education to drive 30 mins to school. As far as the comments about the bad kids in the class taking up the teachers time what out the kids now that are in district that take up the teachers time?

tdw

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:25 a.m.

This may be totaly irrelvent but when my kid went to Estabrook (Ypsi) there were several kids from Ann Arbor (city proper)that were there on school of choice

DagnyJ

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 11:09 a.m.

Just FYI, according the 2000 Census data, 9.6 percent of Washtenaw County's school-aged children were enrolled in private (non-public, non-charter) schools. The highest percentage was in Barton Hills village, with 22 percent. Ann Arbor city had 13.6 percent. The rest of the county averaged less than 6 percent. http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/GCTTable?_bm=y&-context=gct&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-mt_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_GCTP11_ST7&-tree_id=403&-redoLog=true&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=05000US26161&-format=CO-2&-_lang=en

DagnyJ

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 10:24 a.m.

Andrew Thomas, you are probably more correct. I wasn't there last night and I'm making assumptions from what I read in the report from the meeting.

fed-up

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 10:21 a.m.

Dr. I. Emsayin in answer to two of your questions Yes a special Education teachers case load has a state mandated cap and therefor can not be increased. And no the district can not charge students outside of the district that choose to attend if the district becomes school of choice. Just like charter schools can not charge the district would just get the money from the state for that student. Hope that helps.

fed-up

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 10:19 a.m.

Dr. I. Emsayin a special ed's teacher has a state mandated cap therefore can not be increased. No you can not charge the outside students because they are still attending a public school, just like a charter can not charge for students to attend. I do not know the answers to the rest of your questions but its a start.

Andrew Thomas

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 10:18 a.m.

@ DagnyJ: I had a completely different read from the meeting I attended. Most of the parents I spoke to (and the unanimous opinion of my table) is that the proposed cuts are necessary and appropriate. So you are wrong in saying "nobody supports anything". @ Jan: The "school of choice" option is really targeted at two very separate groups of potential students. One proposal is to open targeted elementary and middle schools (based on enrollment as percent of capacity). I suspect that any parent who is concerned enough obout his or her child's education to commit to transporting the child 10 or 20 miles to a school of choice is very strongly motivated to improve that child's educational opportunity, and I seriously doubt that these kids will pose disciplinary problems. As for Stone and Clemente, these schools are small schools focused on students who have either dropped out (due to pregnancy or other reasons), or who are not succeeding in a traditional high school. If filling up these programs with "school of choice" students from other districts will help maintain these programs, I would support the idea. The alternative to the "school of choice" option would be to consolidate these two programs in one building, probably Stone, or even fold them back into the traditional high schools (where the students have already had problems).

jns131

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 10:10 a.m.

Clemente is a school for those who cannot handle a regular hi school. This includes those on probation and with a probation officer. This is considered the school of last resort. Stone school is similar to this but not for the harden criminal. I for one do not want Ann Arbor Privatized. This would open the flood gates for those who have problems. Take a hard look at Belleville. That was such a nice school district until they became school choice. Then came Willow Run. From what I remember parents were pulling their children out of the school district because Willow Run was moving in and over whelming the teachers with a flood gate of problem children. A charter did open up and a majority of the parents left. The school district is really run down and the teachers who loved this district are now gone. I am glad to see the idea of privatizing the buses are gone. All I see now is reorganizing runs. Good idea. I like knowing my daughter is going to know her bus driver thru out the year. Otherwise, I am beginning to like what I see when it comes to making the budget work. 82% of the budget goes into teaching. I would like to see a lot of cuts in that sector as well.

Jan

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 9:24 a.m.

If the schools of choice are like the problems already at Stone then leave that alone. The police are there allot to settle fights & threats.

A2Realilty

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 8:43 a.m.

Alan Goldsmith - I have three school age children and I completely understand the point being made by the person quoted in the article. Please recognize that it isn't "IQ" that could result in a student demanding a large portion of the teacher's attention; more often, it is BEHAVIORAL issues. If a student is poorly behaved in the classroom it is very disruptive to the rest of the class. Add two or three such students into the mix and the classroom will generally become unmanageable for the teacher. All of the students in that classroom suffer. THAT is to what the quote was referring. NOT an elitist attitude that you are applying to the comment. I don't know if a school of choice scenario is appropriate to pursue; I don't have enough information yet about the type of students that AAPS would be receiving. HOWEVER, the comment that you quoted from the article represents a legitimate concern.

limmy

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 8:23 a.m.

Instead of spneding time and money trying to attract more students, why not just admit that traditional public schools are shrinking and that will continue. Charter schools, private schools offer choices and that is what parents want. Who cares who is running the school? There are only so many students in any one area. AAPS needs to get smaller and recognize the handwriting on the wall. There are now 3 charter schools in Washtenaw county that have high school classes. That will only continue to grow as parents do not want to send their kids to big factory type schools.

DagnyJ

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 8:14 a.m.

We need to restructure the organization of schools here, not nickel and dime with small cuts. I think it's fine to open the schools to choice students. But that will only help a little. We need bigger plans to make up the approximately $18 million deficit next year. These budget meetings started well, but are now laughable. No one supports anything. Everyone is worried about what will happen if we do this or that. But all this handwringing doesn't change the fact that we are in a financial hole and need to something big to get out of it. I hear stories about what other districts must do and I'm glad that AAPS isn't ready to shut down or something. But if we don't take big steps, we will be a district in a panic.

icegoalie

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:41 a.m.

Don't raise my taxes $200, but I still want my kid to get the same personal attention from some of the best teachers around. Let's just cut their pay and benefits...I am sure they won't get disgruntled and will still go the extra mile and stay extra hours after school for my kid. I took at paycut at my job and so I think everyone else should too. Ship students in from other districts? No...I don't want that! You know what?...all these cuts they are proposing will actually affect me and my kids...I don't like this one bit!! They should just propose a millage or something...

johnnya2

Wed, Jan 20, 2010 : 12:04 a.m.

I think a better model would be for a merging of several districts. This would allow less administration, make the pool for benefits higher, and also stop the shifting of money that schools of choice is really all about.

Technojunkie

Tue, Jan 19, 2010 : 11:34 p.m.

It's a shame school choice wasn't around when I was a student. People shouldn't have to move when their designated government school is dysfunctional.

Dr. I. Emsayin

Tue, Jan 19, 2010 : 11:32 p.m.

How did the cuts go from 83 people to 12? Can the special education teacher to student ratio be increased or is it state mandated? What are the real ratios of teachers to students in the high school? Students say there are usually 30-34 students per class, but the special and small classes make the numbers look smaller. Does Ann Arbor allow students to pay to attend if they are out of district? Can that be done? Would buying out long serving teachers save money in the long run? What are the costs for consultants and are these dollars well spent? What else does the community want to know?