Brawl reaction: Prosecutor and mother of injured student respond to support movement for 3 youths charged
Will Harris can be seen falling to the ground during the Oct. 12 fight between the Huron and Pioneer football teams. The Washtenaw County Prosecutor's Office says it will not respond to calls from the Ann Arbor school board and ACLU to amend the charges against three students charged in the fight.
Daniel Brenner | AnnArbor.com
The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will not respond to communications from the Ann Arbor Board of Education and American Civil Liberties Union regarding the three Pioneer High School students charged in the Oct. 12 post-game fight between Huron and Pioneer football players.
Meanwhile, the mother of the student injured during the brawl told AnnArbor.com she's disappointed members of the Ann Arbor school board have made the accused's interests a personal cause with no regard for her son.
In the last week, the Ann Arbor school board passed a resolution asking Washtenaw County Prosecutor Brian Mackie to reconsider the charges against three students charged in the fight between the Pioneer and Huron High School football teams. On Tuesday, the ACLU released a letter sent to Mackie asking for “better alternatives” to criminal charges for the three students.
Washtenaw County Deputy Chief Assistant Prosecutor Steven Hiller said Wednesday the prosecutor’s office would not be responding to the school board’s resolution.
“We’re certainly not going to respond to the resolution at this time,” he said. “We still have cases in litigation and it’s not appropriate to comment on the petition at this time.”
Officials said Mackie is out of the office until March 25 and could not comment directly.
Several people have called for the prosecutor’s office to drop the charges against the three students or, in the school board’s words, to “re-evaluate the degree of criminalization” of the three students’ actions during the brawl.
Two juveniles were charged with kicking Huron player Will Harris in the face, sending him to the hospital. Bashir Garain, the only player charged as an adult, is charged with swinging a crutch toward a group of players on the ground during the fight.
Members of the movement to support the students said they believe it is unfair that the three students were charged with crimes when the coaches from the two teams were not. The brawl started when coaches from Huron and Pioneer met after the game and began a verbal altercation that turned physical when assistant coach Vince Wortmann shoved Huron head coach Cory Gildersleeve.
Wortmann was not charged because prosecutors ruled he believed he was defending Pioneer head coach Paul Test.
Wortmann was fired after the incident. Both head coaches have since resigned.
Supporters of the students point out that the only three people charged in the fight are black. In the past two weeks, they have filled courtrooms during the hearings for the accused and demonstrated outside the Washtenaw County Trial Court.
It’s a movement that has frustrated Debbie Harris, Will Harris’ mother. She said she and her family fully support the prosecutor’s office and the results of the Ann Arbor police investigation into the fight.
"We are very disappointed by the Board of Education involvement and that of particular board members who have championed this into their personal cause, while disregarding my son's rights and best interest," she said in a statement from herself and her husband. "We do not have community groups, rallies, or the ACLU coming to support my son, and that's OK. We will continue to support the prosecutors office and defer to the judicial system as the voice of reason and justice."
Debbie Harris emphasized the family never asked police to press charges and were contacted after the brawl by investigators. She said her son was asked to cooperate with the police investigation and did so.
"We did not pursue charges. My son was asked to cooperate in the investigation as both a victim and witness," she said. "He is just one of many witnesses involved.
"Our experience was a very thorough, very methodical investigation by AAPD that included hours upon hours of reviewing various videos of that night, frame by frame, along with photographs."
She added the Harris family keeps the students who were charged in the brawl in their thoughts. They are her son's age, she said, and share the same hopes for their futures, despite making bad choices that night.
One of the juveniles has been found responsible on one count of misdemeanor assault and battery, while the other juvenile will return to court for a pretrial hearing on April 5. Garain’s trial is scheduled to begin the morning of April 8.
Hiller said that while the prosecutor’s office would not comment on the school board’s resolution or the ACLU’s letter, staff members had read them.
“People have a right to petition to government bodies and we respect that,” he said. “We read everything that comes to us. We have no objection to them petitioning us.”
Kyle Feldscher covers cops and courts for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at kylefeldscher@annarbor.com or you can follow him on Twitter.
Comments
Don'tGotTime4That
Sun, Mar 24, 2013 : 12:27 a.m.
Sad, sad group of people. You have already tried and convicted these three young men and neither one of you have gotten away from you computer and been to court hearing. You be surprise what comes up in an actual court hearing. I have never seen so many ignorant and judgmental comment in my life and to think these people live in Ann Arbor. JUST SHAMFUL!!!
Don'tGotTime4That
Sun, Mar 24, 2013 : 12:14 a.m.
n
Sue
Sat, Mar 23, 2013 : 3:21 a.m.
Can anyone imagine the ACLU coming to the defense of 3 white kids who kicked a black student in the head and hit him with a cane? NOT!
Dave
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 7:53 p.m.
If the victim's name was Trayvon Harris, the ACLU would have never entered into this. It's NOT a racial issue. It's a "whoa, you just beat that kid up" issue.
15crown00
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:48 p.m.
excuse me lawyers but the adults are suppose to set the example.yet they don't get charged.MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.
Stuart Brown
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:15 a.m.
So the kid with the crutch did not hit anyone but is being charged with a felony when there was a brawl going on around him. Someone on a crutch is vulnerable; he should plead innocent and go to trial. The fact only black kids are charged is egregious. I would hope the prosecutor's office is looked at by the Federal Justice Department on Civil rights grounds. The Constitution requires due process which is lacking in this case. If the prosecutor's office shows a pattern of singling out members of specific groups for discriminating patterns of enforcement; there should be sanctions.
genetracy
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 3:35 a.m.
Whose righs to due process are being violated or denied? Due process means a criminal prosecution. The accused will have their day in court.
genetracy
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 1:22 a.m.
The Save Our Babies crowd has pressured the BOE to intervene in this matter to no avail. They solicited the ACLU, also to no avail. I guess the only alternative is the Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton Clown Show. I would expect them to condemn Ann Arbor as being the "New Mississippi".
CDW
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:31 p.m.
Here's the thing: we all make choices, right? The students that knew it was wrong walked away. The students that wanted to be involved stayed. No one was made to stay. If you put yourself in the wrong spot at times, bad things may happen. This only makes sense. It is comical that adults keep regarding these young men as young adults. The reality: the logic region of the brain isn't even close to being fully developed. Hopefully it is fully developed by 25. Hence the reason so many people make such poor choices at young ages. So in retrospect, it's a bad idea, surely. It doesn't change what happened though. All these reasons are why the adults in children's lives should ALWAYS model good behavior. In this case, it'd be the coaches.
Macabre Sunset
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 5:54 a.m.
And in some people, the logic region of the brain never fully develops. Does this mean they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions?
Brad
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:50 p.m.
Summary (as witnessed by the video): Crutch boy sees something happen ... Nobody threatens him whatosever ... He is suddenly and totally "healed" and hands off one crutch ... He takes the other crutch, and thinking no one will notice, takes a two-handed, "sucker punch" swing at a defenseless person on the ground ... He runs away ... Bye
Brad
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:14 p.m.
Exactly.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:08 p.m.
What about the historical context of oppression, though?
Seth Penchansky
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:05 p.m.
Maybe the School board should spend less time and money trying to influence the justice system and more time focusing on fiscal management of the school system. I have an idea - how much of the $17M, that has to be cut from next year's budget, could be saved if they eliminate both Huron and Pioneer's football programs? My respect to the coaches who resigned - at least they did the right thing!
15crown00
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:52 p.m.
Eliminating the program won't happen and you know it anymore than the sun is likely to rise in the west and set in the east..
Bobby
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:35 p.m.
/.
kuriooo
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:28 p.m.
The longer this goes on, the more I am willing to concede that pursuing a felony is a bad idea - I can think of other, more "interesting" disciplinary measures to mete out for teenagers, such as lots and lots of community service. How about community service to the elderly, or to shut ins? A couple of mandatory fundraisers as a team for HIV or cancer support, instead of going out to hang with friends? Probably not allowed, but how about cleaning the bathrooms of their schools? Washing all the windows, etc. Each team doing a community service act that could benefit the other school? If these are isolated incidents of poor decisions, hopefully everyone will learn from the experience and not repeat the mistake. If no one learns from these poor decisions and repeats with similar actions in the future they will eventually end up in the justice system. Why rush them there?
15crown00
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:53 p.m.
frankly i think it's a waste of taxpayers money.
CDW
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:36 p.m.
How about a community service project that lets them teach/communicate to other students the negative effects of their poor choices. Huh?
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 8:13 p.m.
Community service will probably be given as part of the sentence for the felony, but the charge itself needs to go on their records to ensure that potential employers and landlords get a fair warning about their violent tendencies for the rest of their lives. Especially the adult.
masticate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 5:56 p.m.
Are you really suggesting that the proper consequence for assault/battery should be the same as it is for littering or vandalism? Maybe we can all hold hands and sing a little kum-ba-yah afterwards. That'll really teach 'em.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:59 p.m.
I think I've figured out whose grandma Gramma is.
mun
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:41 p.m.
"In the last week, the Ann Arbor school board passed a resolution asking Washtenaw County Prosecutor Brian Mackie to reconsider the charges against three students charged in the fight between the Pioneer and Huron High School football teams. On Tuesday, the ACLU released a letter sent to Mackie asking for "better alternatives" to criminal charges for the three students." In short, BOE and ACLU to Harris: Forget you.
Greg
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:23 p.m.
Assault is a crime and as such there are penalites proscribed. Really do not care how old, how sweet, what grades they get, or if their breath is bad, if they hurt others, they need to be charged.
Townspeak
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:07 p.m.
This prosecutor ALWAYS overcharges. This should have been charged as a misdemeanor, not a felony. And why were the coaches not charged for inciting a riot or disorderly conduct, reckless endangerment of a child...etc? This prosecutor has no concern for ruining people's lives, criminal records..etc. These are kids, the adults caused this, but they all walk. Makes no sense.
15crown00
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.
it will be pleaded down probably to attempted something and if it makes it to court community service of some type will be the result.
Robert E.
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 1:13 a.m.
Brilliant idea Mr.Angry...dont stay angry too long though...its not good for your mental health...
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:11 p.m.
Why don't we explore some alternative methods of dealing with them, like hiring a minority consulting firm to study the "coach violence gap"? What's good for the goose is good for the gander right?
Robert E.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 9:01 p.m.
Spare me the patronizing comments Mr. Angry...the coaches deserve much more blame than they are getting...
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 8:10 p.m.
Inciting*
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 8:10 p.m.
Robert, you understand that there is an actual legal definition of inviting a riot? You can't just charge people with it because they're white and it makes you feel good.
Robert E.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:58 p.m.
Well said TS...Usual comment from US giving the coaches a free ride...they did all those things and more...it doesnt excuse the behavior of the boys charged but the coaches behavior must be taken into account...
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:58 p.m.
"And why were the coaches not charged for inciting a riot or disorderly conduct, reckless endangerment of a child" Because they didn't do any of those things.
Jojo B
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:54 p.m.
You've got kicking somebody in the head with cleats and swinging a crutch at somebody who's already on the ground doing a riot. Charges seem just fine to me, although I'd love to see something against the coaches as well.
Townspeak
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:38 p.m.
Jojo B, i did not say the kids should walk. only that there seems to be overcharging on the charges that were brought, based upon what little i know from the news.
Jojo B
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:26 p.m.
I'll see you half way on that... Agree that the coaches should have been charged. But when one kid kicks somebody in the head and sends him to the hospital, you're blaming the prosecutor for ruining the purpetrator's life? He didn't start the riot, but he made a bad decision to get involved in it and injure somebody else. You're opinion sounds similar to some viewpoints on Steubinville... Oh the judge is ruining these kids' football careers by sentencing them for rape! How dare he do that! These are kids, but kids need to be responsible for their actions. The next time a riot breaks out in your neighborhood, I urge you to stay clear. If you decide to join in and smash somebody in the head (because it's somebody else's fault for starting it), it really will be your own fault.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:44 p.m.
Wait, there's a victim here other than the guy swinging the crutch? Odd, that rarely seems to be anyone's concern.
mun
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:18 p.m.
"Washtenaw County Deputy Chief Assistant Prosecutor Steven Hiller said Wednesday the prosecutor's office would not be responding to the school board's resolution. "We're certainly not going to respond to the resolution at this time," he said. "We still have cases in litigation and it's not appropriate to comment on the petition at this time." In short the Washtenaw County Prosecutor is doing its job to uphold the law.
Atticus F.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:16 p.m.
How would you feel if someone stole your lawnmower, and then prosecutor Hiller said "well, we are choosing not to prosecute because we deal with stolen cars on a daily basis, and we only prosecute more serious crimes". If you steal a gumball from walmart, and I steal a dvd player, the prosecutor doesn't have the luxury of deciding who gets prosecuted and who doesn't.
a2citizen
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:39 p.m.
Why such incoherent legal arguments it's not hard to figure out why Tom Robinson was convicted.
easy123
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:09 p.m.
@Atticus- How would you feel if it were you son /or daughter on the receiving end of this. Furthermore, we have seen the consequenses of someone getting slammed in the head- it could have had a life changing moment - for both sides. I guess that is tough for you to fathom that. Maybe the kids should not be sentenced, but they should truly learn from the consequenses of their actions. Because, the next time may not be as a lenient!!! They do have the discretion to decide who to charge. Just as a cop deciding who to pull over - most folks do go over the speed limit as you know.
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:37 p.m.
Foot in mouth yet again!
John of Saline
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:23 p.m.
A friend of mine once helped the police capture a guy who had stolen a minor item from my friend. The police didn't bother to charge the guy with it because the perp was an escaped prisoner from another state. Prosecutors and police make these decisions daily.
no flamers!
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:12 p.m.
Prosecutors absolutely have discretion. And kicking a person in the face while they are on the ground with a cleated-shoe is 10-times worse than the minor shove between the coaches (who have been held accountable be losing their jobs).
Jimmyc
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3 p.m.
So who does have the luxury? Certainly not the school board. The prosecutor has far more right to decide who gets prosecuted than anyone else. Lord, have mercy Atticus. Get a clue!
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:41 p.m.
Uhhh.....not sure where you are getting your expertise from but That's EXACTLY what a prosecutor does.
Gramma
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:09 p.m.
People get hurt in brawls. Because you are hurt does not mean you were innocent. If you participate, you might get hurt. The adults should have been held more responsible. The Assistant Coach was not charged, because "he thought the coach was in danger." Maybe one or all of the 3 young men charged thought they were in danger. Back in the day, no one would have been charged in this situation. The police would not have been involved. Too much behavior of teens is criminalized these days.
Laurie
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
Exactly mgOblue!! How are you "in danger" while your victim is on the ground!? The kids used bad judgment, are being held accountable for their actions, like EVERYONE should be. Get over it!
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:35 p.m.
Gramma How many fights were you involved in "back in the day"?
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.
gramma are you implying the injured student was participating in fighting and got hurt as a result of that?? Do you have proof or evidence of that? You are insinuating he was involved more than we know.
mg0blue
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:28 p.m.
Thought they were in danger and responded by kicking a player in the head while he was laying on the ground?
Ricardo Queso
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:26 p.m.
Really? Besides assault what else would you like teens to get a pass on?
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.
If you look at the picture, its very clear why only 3 students face charges....Most of the players are just standing around, not involved or engaging. I see a Huron player falling to the ground, and pioneer players trying to be held back. A select few made bad decisions, and it appears the majority did not. Hence, only a select few face charges.
Debbie Harris
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:02 a.m.
Sammy Dog: THIS Is Mrs. Harris.
Sammy Dog
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 12:46 a.m.
"Justmythoughts"-is that you Mrs. Harris?
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:23 p.m.
Dear concerned, please do and thank you.
Kyle Feldscher
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:22 p.m.
No worries, concerned.
concerned
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:02 p.m.
I'm sorry Kyle. Let me clear up the confusion. I was directing my comment to 'justmythoughts'.
Kyle Feldscher
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 6:21 p.m.
I've got a copy sitting on my desk, concerned. Thanks though!
concerned
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 6:05 p.m.
I can always send you a copy if you like.
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 5:58 p.m.
To concerned, "calmed down on my accusations from the other night?" I'm not a seasoned commenter, so not sure who you are directing that comment to or why?
Kyle Feldscher
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:52 p.m.
I did, concerned. I've reported much of the information that's in there. However, if you're concerned about just quotes being reported as fact, the entire police report is witness statements from various people involved in the brawl. I've reported what they are accused of and how those charges were developed.
concerned
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:37 p.m.
There you are 'justmythoughts', glad to see you've calmed down on your accusations after the other night. Gramma you're right, one picture doesn't tell the whole story, but few people have all the facts. I'd just like to see A2.com stop putting out quotes as if they are the facts. Kyle you did read the police report, right.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.
OK, Gramma, who else did something that rises to the level of a felony? Please tell us.
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:15 p.m.
Gramma.....go look at the tags the video is there
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:12 p.m.
But it tells a lot about who was charged for assaulting Mr. Harris and why others weren't charged for that.
Gramma
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:03 p.m.
This is only one picture. It does not tell what happened before or after
Atticus F.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.
There are several issues at play here. The first issue is if the prosecutor is choosing to prosecute this incident, and chooses to not allow the school board to handle it internally, then they need to charge every single person who broke the law... If one coach pushed another, they need to file battery charges. If one student threatened another, they need to file assualt charges. The other issu I have is what good does it to to charge these kids with a felony, and to deny them a chance at redemption? Is it really neccesarry to see someones entire future destroyed because they allegedly over reacted durning a brawlthat they didn't start? Yes there should be punishment. However, I believe that in charging someone with a felony, we are taking away their chance at getting an education, getting a good job, and having a future. In the end, this has a negative efect on society.
alarictoo
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 10:36 p.m.
@Atticus F. - If you are going to continue to throw around the word 'assualt' please learn that the proper spelling of the word is 'assault'. It is just becoming another way in which you are making your ignorance obvious.
towncryer
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:54 p.m.
@Tano, it is just my opinion that had AAPS actually acted responsibly when this occurred instead of sitting on their thumbs waiting for every other entity to do their job for them, this may not have gone as far as it has. And then the citizen group, BOE, ACLU turning this into a race fiasco has only added fuel to the fire. I guess I should speak for myself. As much as I don't want these young men on trial because of their race, I also don't want them let off because of their race.
Tano
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 5:02 p.m.
@Usual Suspect "The coaches and the other students that were fighting were committing, at most, civil violations. These are not the domain of the prosecutor." That is not true. The "shove" could certainly have been prosecuted as a felony assault and battery. The prosecutor CHOSE not to charge because, in his judgement, the offender legitimately felt that he was defending his head coach. The prosecutor can and should also choose to use his judgement and decline to charge the students. It was a brawl between two teams, who were suited up for a game that rewards a certain amount of violence. Their coaches started the brawl. Kids started fighting and at that point it is the most natural thing for teammates to join in to support their fellows. It certainly would be good to make this a teaching moment for students, about not losing control, about not escalating, and about being punished for poor judgement. But felony charges in the judicial system is very very excessive in this case.
Tano
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:53 p.m.
@towncryer " I "think" most people want a fair outcome for EVERYONE" I see precious little evidence for that statement. The overwhelming majority of comments here show absolutely no interest in coming to grips with the context of this incident - a brawl between two football teams, started by their coaches, and the absolute absurdity of making a felon out of one student who was on crutches and used poor judgement for one instant by swinging his crutch (and hurting no one in the process). " I don't "think" anyone truly wants these young men's futures messed up forever over this" Where is the evidence for that? Almost all the comments I read are adamant that the student should be prosecuted for a felony - i.e. people here seem very intent on destroying this young man's life over this.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:53 p.m.
"The first issue is if the prosecutor is choosing to prosecute this incident, and chooses to not allow the school board to handle it internally, then they need to charge every single person who broke the law... If one coach pushed another, they need to file battery charges. If one student threatened another, they need to file assault charges." Holy cow, are you really this resistant to facts, even thought they have been explained to you over and over again? Only felonies are the prosecutor's domain. And he doesn't bring charges or not based on how he feels that day. His responsibility to the citizens is to do his job. That means when it there is suspicion that a felony is committed and there is enough evidence available to him to bring it to trial, he must act on it. To do otherwise is to ignore his duties as prosecutor. And, like has been explained before, these charges were not at the request of the victim's family. Whether or not they think there should be felony charges has nothing to do with whether it happens. The coaches and the other students that were fighting were committing, at most, civil violations. These are not the domain of the prosecutor. He couldn't charge anybody even if he wanted to. If charges are to be brought, it must come from a citizen, usually a victim. If you think there should be consequences from the school district for either the coaches or more players, then go bug the school district. Commenting about that on an article about what the prosecutor is doing is completely off topic.
towncryer
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:47 p.m.
@Solitude, in a previous article, Garain's attorney mentioned plea deals but not the specifics http://annarbor.com/news/crime/student-accused-of-using-crutch-as-weapon-during-football-brawl-heads-to-trial/
Jimmyc
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:57 p.m.
So, no one who is pursuing an education should ever be charged with a felony? And as to is it necessary to issue consequences for "allegedly" over reacting, yes. It absolutely is necessary. No, they didn't start the brawl, but then engaged in it, and quite frankly escalated it to an abhorrently criminal level.
Solitude
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.
Atticus, the prosecutor has to have a victim willing to testify to charge in a non-domestic battery/assault. In this case, if neither coach was willing to testify against the other, there's nothing to charge. If a student was "threatened" and was not willing to testify, then there is also nothing for the prosecutor to pursue. Towncryer, do you know the prosecutor has offered a non-felony plea that's been declined by the kid charged with the felony, or were you speaking by way of example?
towncryer
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:36 p.m.
I agree with most of your last paragraph----I think that is why prosecutor's have offered pleas of which we are not privy to and which have been declined. The problem, I believe, that most people have is that the reasoning from the BOE and ACLU for dropping charges is based solely on race and nothing else. I "think" most people want a fair outcome for EVERYONE involved, including the Harris family. I don't "think" anyone truly wants these young men's futures messed up forever over this, but they do need to take some responsibility and the public has not seen this thus far (again, that we are privy too). Admitting wrong and taking responsibility does a lot in the court of public of opinion....just ask Lance Armstrong.
Solitude
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:35 p.m.
Sorry for the typos....no period after "general public was not" and that last "felony's" should have been plural "felonies" and not possessive.
Solitude
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:32 p.m.
Charging someone with felony doesn't take away anything; convicting them of a felony does. I agree that charging a minor with a felony is a serious thing that should be given careful consideration, and I don't have enough information about the details that the prosecutor's office was privy to that the general public was not. to have an opinion about whether this kid was overcharged. I do think that people need to remember that no one is convicted of anything yet, and people who are charged with felony's routinely plead to lesser offenses.
Solitude
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:28 p.m.
Unless they had solid proof that others committed the same acts and were not charged, I think the school board should have kept out of this, and the ACLU should really be embarrassed at their attempt at involvement. That said, if the school board was going to be involved because they just couldn't help themselves, it should only have been if and when somebody got convicted of something, during the sentencing portion of the trial. Presenting relevant facts about the suspects -- such as good grades, community involvement, no previous problems, etc. -- is appropriate when determining what type of consequences will be imposed. There are lots of options, including deferred judgement, which would result in no criminal record if the conditions are met. Involvement at that stage of the process would at least send the proper message to the student body and everyone else involved. These so-called adults are truly an embarrassment, and have failed miserably to set a good example for students. Their blatant disregard for the victim and his family is disgusting.
Atticus F.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:21 p.m.
We don't allow a victims family to mead out punishment in this country. The reason we don't allow this is because if given the choice, many would go above and beyond what the law allows. I'm sure if one of my family members was assualted I might feel the same way. However, I think it's important that we also consider the bigger picture, which is what purpose does it serve to charge a kid with a felony that resulted from a fight at a football game. It's clear that many people who were involved in this incident wen't too far, but I'm getting the sense that this is a one sided afair from the prosecutor and the victims family, who are trying to place blame on a select few.
Basic Bob
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:22 p.m.
Having been a victim of a crime, I can tell you that the Washtenaw County prosecutor does not include the victim in the proceedings, other than to take statements or testify as required to prove the guilt and preserve the rights of the accused. If the community or the accused believes that somehow the victim is retaliating for being assaulted, I assure you that they are incorrect in that belief.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:43 p.m.
"We don't allow a victims family to mead out punishment in this country. " You're right, and that's not happening here. A court will mete out punishment, if the accused is found guilty. This is criminal offense. The family of the victim did not bring charges. You are thinking perhaps of a civil offense.
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:32 p.m.
Atticus As nowayjose pointed out! The family did NOT! I say again did NOT! ask for prosecution of the suspect! And the allegation that the family wants to "mead out punishment" is a total fabrication! Yet you and the ACLU want to circumvent the justice system because you THINK you have it figured out. Well I have news for you! You don't get to decide! Thank Goodness.
Jimmyc
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:54 p.m.
@JustMyThoughts, that is EXACTLY what I was going to say. The Harris family has not had much to say and what they have said has not asked for a punishment of any kind - only that the prosecutor's office do their job and continue to investigate and ultimately prosecute. Atticus, why are you so refusing to see two sides to this?
mun
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:27 p.m.
"I'm sure if one of my family members was assualted I might feel the same way. However, I think it's important that we also consider the bigger picture, which is what purpose does it serve to charge a kid with a felony that resulted from a fight at a football game." The bigger picture is upholding the law. The purpose is consequences for one's actions.
justmythoughts
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:23 p.m.
I believe the Harris family said in this article "We will continue to support the prosecutors office and defer to the judicial system as the voice of reason and justice." Doesn't sound like they are trying to "Mead" out punishment?? Way to attack the victim and his family, blame them. Maybe you could Mentor these young men accused and help in redeeming them?
SMAIVE
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:35 p.m.
That's the point, these teens went too far.
nowayjose
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:34 p.m.
But we should allow special interest groups to lesson punishment. (ACLU)? Sorry doesn't work both ways. Funny you're so willing to hear what the ACLU has to say but don't care about what the victims family has to say.
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:29 p.m.
You really can't comprehend the fact that a weapon was used can you ? And as far as a " kid " goes a 17yr old " kid " can beat you just like a 30yr old can
a2roots
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.
The school board needs to be broomed out of office. The boe and this group of concerned citizens are out of line. Their approach sends the wrong message to the community and certainly to our youth. I do not care how many are charged it is ridiculous to think charges should be dropped because not enough students are charged or that no whites were charged. If you are a thug and get caught then be ready for the consequences of your stupid decision making. Maybe the parents of those charged should be held accountable as well.
B2Pilot
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:42 p.m.
The school board should resign- what exactly were they hoping to achieve or teach the community ? At the very least the school board should set-up a meeting with the Harris's in order to apologize in person- for their being spineless leaders that wilted under political pressure - not the leadership the schools need
jns131
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 11:33 p.m.
Can they take Balas with them? I mean don't they also have something to do with keeping each others jobs?
buildergirl
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:39 p.m.
The problem isn't that three students are being charged, the problem is ONLY three students are being charged. It was a full out brawling mess. Charging only three of one racial identity has opened up the school and the prosecutors to criticism which they rightly deserve. This lame attempt at justice is a joke, except to the three students who will bear the entire weight of blame.
buildergirl
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 7:14 p.m.
There were many people punching and hitting, ie assaulting each other. There were many students with injuries after the fight, not just one. Only the actions of three are being charged. I'm not saying these three shouldn't be charged or trying to defend their actions.
Basic Bob
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:10 p.m.
@Chris, If a Huron player retaliated with a crutch, he would also be charged with assault with a weapon. If a Huron player responded by kicking a Pioneer player in the face while he was on the ground, he would be charged with assault.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:05 p.m.
They were helping out their teammates? Really? By picking up and swinging a weapon and stomping on faces? That's doesn't help anybody, that just escalates things. That's as ridiculous as, "They were just caught up in the moment."
Chris
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.
I won't try and defend the physical acts committed by the students, but the context behind them, IMO, isn't being addressed. The asst coach was not charged because said he thought he was defending the coach. I question why these kids aren't given the same "break" in the larger context of "they were helping out teammates." It was a big brawl. No doubt. I don't understand how the asst isn't charged by the students are. Any lawyers want to try and clarify? thx.
Solitude
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:39 p.m.
They are not being blamed for the brawl, they are being blamed for their actions in the brawl. Why shouldn't they be?
drewk
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.
Can you please share the timeline in the video where other people are using weapons? I didn't see it.
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:05 p.m.
So let me get this straight.Are you saying there were others that kicked a player in the head w/ cleats sending him to the hospital and there was more than one person swinging a weapon ?
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:37 p.m.
WHERE are all the bleeding hearts that had the nerve to say this was being overblown? It appears that none of them feel strongly enough to confront the victim and his family directly!
Robert E.
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 2:40 a.m.
People who complain about the ACLU are the same people who lose it when they feel their "right" to bear assault weapons is questioned...so much for the rights of victims of gun violence huh? Those "bleeding hearts" are literally bleeding and dying...
Robert E.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:06 p.m.
You made a general comment jcj...not specific...Im referring to the majority of people who feel the context of this situation needs to be considered...most care very much about what happened to the victims and their well being...its not an either/or situation...as for the ACLU be careful what you wish for...even though they may defend some we may strongly disagree with, it helps maintain the most basic civil rights most of us take for granted...
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:27 p.m.
Robert Please send this months donation to the ACLU so they can continue to cherry pick who is supposed to have rights!
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:22 p.m.
Robert e How would you characterize these statements by Atticus? I'm getting the sense that this is a one sided afair from the prosecutor and the victims family, who are trying to place blame on a select few. We don't allow a victims family to mead out punishment in this country. The reason we don't allow this is because if given the choice, many would go above and beyond what the law allows. Or this from Gramma Back in the day, no one would have been charged in this situation.
Robert E.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 9:07 p.m.
No again Mr. Angry dood...there may have been some but that does not characterize the majority of those who feel the boys charged should be shown some leniency...
Angry Moderate
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 8 p.m.
No, not really...there were dozens of comments on the other stories saying that it's just a regular schoolyard fight--basically that the victim should man up and get over it.
Robert E.
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 6:59 p.m.
"No big deal"??? You got some nerve jcj with your mischaracterization of people's.comments...what do mean by "confronting the victim directly"??? To infer that those who think the boys charged need to be shown some leniancy due to the circumstances involved but dont care about the victims involved is pure fallacy and fiction...period...
jcj
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:27 p.m.
Obviously not! But my point was people have been very vocal about the suspect being singled out. Yet at the time of my comment they had disappeared. If those that said it was no big deal think not. Why are they not still saying so to the face (so to speak) of the victim and family?
halflight
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:30 p.m.
Uh, do you want people "confronting" a victim of an alleged crime? I think not.
glimmertwin
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:09 p.m.
Common theme in this country - protect those that make stupid decisions and forget about their victims.
Martha Cojelona Gratis
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:18 a.m.
This story is getting old.
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:18 p.m.
thanks tdw I owe you a few. :)
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 2:59 p.m.
I got ya covered for a few up votes there Craig
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 1:59 p.m.
evidently giving you an up vote was a strategic error. ;)
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:52 a.m.
I'll give you an up vote.
TheDiagSquirrel
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:49 a.m.
It must have not been old when you were congratulating the school board and ACLU on previous articles, huh
nickcarraweigh
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:17 a.m.
Student-athlete Harris got kicked in the head twice, but not by fellow student-athlete Garain, who's facing felony counts for swinging a crutch that apparently struck no one. All clear now?
Debbie Harris
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 1:58 a.m.
Sammy Dog: Sorry, You Have The Facts And Testimony Wrong. Two People Are NOT Charged With The SAME kick.
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:09 p.m.
Well, Sammy, I believe so far only one of the minors has been found responsible (that's juvi court speak for "guilty"). So maybe you're right.
Sammy Dog
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 3:29 p.m.
Actually, Student Harris testified that he was kicked only ONCE, yet TWO people are charged for that same kick. So, not so clear....
B2Pilot
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
nick your point is ? - and until you realize that you can't pick up an object and threaten people; you need to do some soul searching on why this is wrong
tdw
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:44 a.m.
Using a weapon in a assault turns it from a misdemeanor to a felony.Look at the video @ about :53 you can see the crutch being swung at someone on the ground.All clear now ?
mg0blue
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:17 a.m.
Thank you A2.com for getting a statement from the VICTIM'S family, and having a story that reminds everybody that there is a real victim in this case, which isn't the suspects that are charged.
genetracy
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 3:40 a.m.
It sure has taken awhile for A2.com to interview the Harris family. It seems this media source has been preoccupied with the three babies who were charged.
average joe
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:57 a.m.
I wonder if there would be resolutions passed & marches planned on behalf of the victim if the Prosecutor chose not to file charges against anyone.....
Bcar
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 11:01 a.m.
If you kick someone in the face you get charged! You swing a club at someone you get charged! But here's the real question, what the crutch registered and legally purchased??
jns131
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 11:27 p.m.
Unless swung unjustly in the wrong direction. Swing low, swing high.....
Usual Suspect
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 4:07 p.m.
It should have been at home in a crutch safe.
HB11
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 12:30 p.m.
Another one of those military-style assault crutches, with the padded pistol grips. Why oh why would any person need one of those?
Carole
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:52 a.m.
Don't quite understand -- two players kicked another player in the face sending him to the hospital, another individual uses his crutch inappropriately causing injury, and that is supposed to be okay. In my opinion, if there is no consequence, you are telling this young men "it is okay to injury individuals". Respect and responsibility are to attribute that surely have gone downhill recently.
jns131
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 11:26 p.m.
After what happened in Stubenville Ohio? I hate to say it, justice is being served. You do the crime you do the time and it is according to the law. Unless justice is not being served. Which we shall see from all evidence gathered. Good luck to all.
jim s
Fri, Mar 22, 2013 : 10:16 a.m.
White guilt plain an simple .
oyxclean
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:56 a.m.
Because the 3 perps are black. Its racist to hold them accountable *insert big ol' eyeroll here*
Nick Danger
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:51 a.m.
Since the school board has done such a great job with the districts finances why not let them make decisions for the prosecutor.They always know whats best for everybody
TheDiagSquirrel
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:28 a.m.
Good luck to you and your son, Mrs. Harris. It's a shame, like you said, that certain people and the A2 school board has diverted the focus from the victim (where it should be), to using race and lack of personal responsibility to pass ill-informed resolutions.
Jack Gladney
Thu, Mar 21, 2013 : 10:16 a.m.
It's great that the prosecutor iisn't bowing to political pressure from other elected officials and professional buttinskis seeking special treatment for school athletes.