Saline residents talk downtown development at community forum
Saline residents worked in groups to brainstorm ideas for encouraging business growth downtown.
Tara Cavanaugh | For AnnArbor.com
Saline residents voiced concerns about vacant storefronts, traffic backups on Michigan Avenue and the unfinished development that was supposed to be the Village Marketplace and Lofts at a community forum Tuesday night..
More than 40 residents gathered at Saline City Hall to discuss ways to encourage downtown development at the forum sponsored by the Saline Business Development Association.
The residents took part in several group brainstorming sessions, writing down strengths and weaknesses of downtown Saline, obstacles to development and priorities for improvement.
Many of the residents expressed frustration about the still-undeveloped property on West Michigan Ave., which was supposed to be the residential and commercial building with underground parking known as Village Marketplace and Lofts. Many said they’d like to see the property, which is not owned by the city, turned into a park or a parking structure. The city filed a lawsuit against developer Michael Concannon in July in an effort to force the completion of the demolition stage of the project and make repairs to city property.
Another common concern was vacant storefronts downtown.
Resident Bob Bykowski said there used to be plenty of businesses downtown. “When I first moved there in 1970 we had a men’s shop, women’s shop, shoe shop, hardware store, drugstore, and two diners,” he said.
Bykowski said Briarwood Mall in Ann Arbor took business away from individually owned stores in downtown Saline.
Jeff Morris agreed. “It’s not attractive, downtown with the open storefronts,” Morris said, adding that potential business owners could be lured with tax incentives.
The residents listed the tough economy as the biggest obstacle to future development in downtown Saline. They also listed lack of parking and traffic backups on Michigan Avenue.
Linda Terhaar, a Saline City Council member, explained another obstacle: “Downtown is currently not seen as a destination by potential business owners, potential customers or as place for teenagers to hang out,” she said.
Cindy Czubko, president of the BDA, was happy with the turnout and participation.
“There was a great cross section of people from all over the community which I think is wonderful,” she said.
Czubko was surprised at how many different obstacles to development residents listed in their brainstorming sessions. “I think people are really honest in their assessment,” she said, “and I think that’s good because those are the things you can really work on and that’s what we really need to know.”
Aside from talking with residents, the BDA is also taking part in the Michigan Main Street program, which is provided by the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. The Main Street program provides training for city leaders to help revitalize downtown areas. Saline was selected to participate in the program in July.
Tara Cavanaugh is a freelance reporter for AnnArbor.com. For more Saline stories, visit our Saline page.
Comments
klac1977
Tue, Dec 7, 2010 : 3:21 p.m.
"I thought Jenny's signs naming Saline a "Cool City" was supposed to bring the youth to town! There is no reason to go to Saline, nothing to do after maybe eating dinner; until that changes Saline will just be a traffic light on US 12." - CobraII...but you try to bring something new to town, like a teen center, and that's a bad thing? I'm confused...do we prefer Sailne to just be a traffic light on US 12 then?
klac1977
Tue, Nov 23, 2010 : 11:56 a.m.
Outdoor seating!!! I'm a huge fan of downtown Ann Arbor and that is why...on a beautiful spring, summer or fall evening I love nothing more than to be able to sit outside, along a busy street, and eat my dinner or enjoy my drinks with friends! Mac's opened up a very small outdoor area but to me it's a bummer that it's located in back and so small - on the one hand I think the back location is quaint and cute because I think that little Murphy's Crossing, or whatever it's called is a very well put-together area, but the one time I attempted to go there I was told the outdoor seating is first come first served so basically you have to stand there like a predator waiting for your prey and that doesn't appeal to me. I believe Dan's opened up some outdoor seating as well but I have not yet seen it or know enough about it to comment on it. And Brecon Grille has a couple of tables outdoors - that is probably my favorite setup but wish there was room for more seating out there. I'm hoping the new restaurant moving into Kelley's will have outdoor seating - along Michigan Ave. I was really excited about the plans for the Concannon area on Michigan Ave. and very sad to see it won't happen. I think it would've been a great little area - I'm in my early 30's and would've loved to live in a loft in that location. I also agree that a Martini Bar or something similar would be wonderful. And 100% agree that this town shuts down way too early to keep anyone interested...always has! I remember growing up here if you didn't get what you needed by 9pm you had to wait til the next day! I think Wendy's is open later now, so that's something - but not sure about the other fast food joints, they all used to close around 9 or 10 back in the day. I'm very excited about the new teen center but do wish it had a better location right in the heart of downtown - think it would draw a much larger crowd and really be successful in a more central location - but I'm still hoping it really takes off! I know that the city itself can't do any of these things, it's up to the businesses and entrepreneurs but, unfortunately, with the vibe of the city currently I would be nervous to put money on the line to open a new business here - I think it would be helpful for the companies currently serving the downtown area to do a few things to spruce it up a bit - the outdoor seating, staying open later, etc. and once we change the vibe a bit it may draw in those people willing to put some money on the line to open new businesses.
cfsunlet
Mon, Nov 15, 2010 : 10:01 a.m.
@michiganexpats.com--Those all sound like good ideas. It seems like we are missing the mark on a variety of businesses that would round out a person's visit to Saline. Many people drive in from Ann Arbor to go to Mac's, but what else can they do after dinner? What about the Stone Arch--it bills itself as wanting to support the arts in Saline, and would like to build on the successful Art Walk. What about scheduling shows and gatherings, such as classic movies, theater, comedy, educational talks, and club meetings in the basement, while hosting a rotating gallery of local artists on the main floor? It would also make the perfect cocktail lounge on the main floor. There is a teen hang-out place, it is new, called the 5th corner, though I haven't been able to get my 12 year-old son to go. It may be just far enough away from the main downtown that it doesn't have the draw. People are busy and stay entertained at home so they need a significant reason to go somewhere. There are lots of hobbyists in Saline, though, so opportunities to get together with people of similar intersts might have success.
michiganexpats.com
Fri, Nov 12, 2010 : 5:33 p.m.
The way I see it, Saline has had trouble keeping stores open downtown, because Ann Arbor has such a strong pull. It's close by and has tons of college students and culture. Instead, the way to populate Saline's downtown is to try to differentiate itself from Ann Arbor (instead of being "Ann Arbor continued"). The question is how does Saline want to define itself separately from Ann Arbor? I'm not sure of the answer to this question, but I can see a few possibilities. 1. Saline has a strong German population. Perhaps create a "German downtown" vibe with stores, bars, and live music. 2. Happy suburbia -- safe teen hangout places, with an arcade, Chipotle, etc, so that SHS students hang out in Saline instead of at frat parties in Ann Arbor. 3. Organic vibe -- Saline also has a strong farming community. Show that in the downtown. Have store fronts that sell locally grown food. Maybe one could have a cooking class, gardening class, or "how to raise chickens" kind of class.
random thoughts
Fri, Nov 12, 2010 : 9:35 a.m.
@Jim: the Concannon project predates "this economy" It had condo pre-sales and retail lease commitments. Lots of people want to live in a downtown atmosphere. Not the majority of Americans, but there is a market for this kind of housing. Jonny Spirit appears ready to live on "noisy" Michigan Ave. @Jonny: read the article again, the city does not own the land. @Emily: "the Board needs...a major overhaul with their businesses"???? The board (council actually) doesn't own any businesses. The city government doesn't start or run businesses. Your list of needed businesses is great, but telling a council member that a movie theater would be nice doesn't make a movie theater happen. You need a private person or company willing to take a risk, make an investment, and go for it.
Patrick Little
Fri, Nov 12, 2010 : 9:23 a.m.
I'm one of the old white people who attended the meeting. I welcome any business that is both diverse and successful. The city tries to recruit and encourage these but cannot open a martini bar or a theater etc., it takes entrepreneurs. A home being zoned commercial does not preclude use as a residence. Changes to zoning are made all of the time. I'm not certain what people mean by diversity exactly but I honestly don't know anyone who would object to anyone not "an old white person" living in Saline or operating a business. Don't judge a community by the comments of one or two people. As far as the Black Hole, it is now in the possession of the county for back taxes and will be auctioned next Spring, the city successfully sued the companies who owned it and intend to seek to make the property attractive and available for purchase. Seizing it for Eminent Domain would take a long time and eventually cost the taxpayers money, we want a vibrant business there.
maxima284
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 5:12 p.m.
Okay, so I'm a young resident (age less than 30) who moved to Saline in 2009 because of the schools and a great commute to Ann Arbor. I agree with all of these comments as there is NOTHING to do in Saline (besides Dan's) past 9 pm - and I am not counting a bowling alley or Mac's -- something reasonably priced -- past 9 pm. I have contacted the Saline Board multiple times for suggestions to Saline and nothing has happened. Their feeling is to keep it "local" without any national chains. I could list a multitude of things that would improve Saline immensely (which I will list below!): A movie theater - second run would be great! Similar to what Briarwood recently closed. A comic book store 3-4 bars or restaurants - reasonably priced - open past 9 pm until 2 am. A Family Video - it would be the only one in the entire Washtenaw County. An Olga's or Panera Bread. A Best Buy - there's only one in Washtenaw County and that's off of Ann-Arbor Saline Road. If Saline wants to continue to grow, the Board seriously needs some major diversity and a major overhaul with their businesses. To attract the younger consumers, they need more businesses WHICH ACTUALLY attract the younger customers. Younger customers, ages 18-35, have nothing to do in Saline except craft shows, a bowling alley and one bar.
SMAIVE
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 1:52 p.m.
Those 40+ participants in the picture recognize the importance of participating in activities which impact their community or livelihood. It's not so much a question of age or race, but the willingness to provide input and comment, regardless of the outcome. In fact, they most likely are there because business as usual is no longer sufficient. Those willing to volunteer or contribute ultimately drive the bus, so if the other 9,000+ residents develop as much enthusiasm, Saline could be even more than it already is.
Jonny Spirit
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.
Believe it or not, but young people want to move to down town Saline. Saline has all those nice, old beautiful houses down town but they are all labeled commercial and nobody can buy them. The city won't change them back to residential so people can live down town and walk around to different stores and restaurants. I know this because I have called the city, I have talked to several different people and the same answer is "NO" sorry we can not change that. Saline is digging there own hole and they are stuck in it. The picture showed the average age of a person in the group to be about 60 years old. This is the reason why Saline will be the land of the old white people. The word change does not exists to them. This is why Saline is going backwards. The city is ran by individuals that like it the "little old farm land" Saline and they don't want it to change. Hey Saline stop fighting the people who would like to move into your city and help them. Look at all the empty houses on Mich Ave that could be filled with families walking the sidewalks of your city. Why don't you sell the land to residents who want to build a house in that hole and let families move in. DO SOMETHING with it, it's been long enough!
CobraII
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 9:40 a.m.
I thought Jenny's signs naming Saline a "Cool City" was supposed to bring the youth to town! There is no reason to go to Saline, nothing to do after maybe eating dinner; until that changes Saline will just be a traffic light on US 12.
Jim Nazium
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 6:18 a.m.
I am Glad this Article finally appeared. The Saline " HOLE " on Michigan Ave is such a Miserable Eyesore and is an example Failed Leadership by the City of Saline. OK, so the idiotic idea that someone would want to live on Noisy US12 in a "Loft" with "Businesses just below" in that tiny little stretch of land was a bust. What Pollyanna Rosecolored Moron thought THAT was actually gonna fly? In this economy to boot? How could there not have been some kind of provision with the development deal that if it fell through the City gets to do what they want with it? We are Hostages by the Developer here? Really? We have to Sue and wait? How weak, for such a prominent area to look like that for so long, not to mention the " Rental Company " named on the fence surrounding the Shame. Who is paying the "Rental" every month? I hope it's the Developer but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the Tax Payers somehow ( Somebody Look into this ). Just Claim Eminent Domain or something and make the Damn Thing a Parking Lot already. Everyone knows that is the Correct choice for now. City Hall and Everyone else who can make this happen, just do it already and quit looking at every development with Big Dollar Signs and Greed Colored Glasses. I know some of you on the books for the City have proposed some similar ideas with common sense solutions that are the Best for the Town they care so much for. Don't give up the fight and those who need Shaming should be Shamed as often as possible until they do the right thing. Good Luck, and I hope a Huge Rally isn't needed to draw more attention but it may be what's needed.
MI-expatriate
Thu, Nov 11, 2010 : 12:31 a.m.
No thank you. I already own my own business; Saline is not a good fit, but congratulations on realizing that that is a step to the future success of the city. I remember more than a decade ago when I moved to the area from out of state. A long time Salinian said they hated what had "happened" to Saline - it looked pretty quiet and contained to me. I didn't get it. Very little has changed. As noted earlier, diversity is your key, in business, residents, etc. The welcome mat is not exactly out to outsiders. Good luck, sincerely.
MI-expatriate
Wed, Nov 10, 2010 : 6:21 p.m.
That's a cross-section? Looks like a group of middle-aged and older white people. I think that is a big part of the problem - no diversity, or acceptance of it, particularly in light of recent community/school board decisions.
cubicle
Wed, Nov 10, 2010 : 6:20 p.m.
A quick perusal of the Saline news on AnnArbor.com should be a good starting point for making changes. Saline Craft Show - Nov. 13th Quilts for Missions "and a downtown dotted with quaint shops" Saline Potters Guild Saline community joins in 212-mile-long US-12 Garage Sale I "get" that Saline is mostly a bedroom community. I lived there for a while so I'm fairly familiar with the "things to do", which aren't many, especially if you're a.) single, b.) under the age of 40, and/or c.) don't like crafts. For sports watching, NASCAR gets the good TVs at Dan's even when events like the World Cup or Olympics are occurring. After a nice dinner at Mac's, there aren't many options for continuing an evening. It probably doesn't help that the whole town gives off the vibe of shutting down at 8pm every night. I'm no pro at city planning, but something like a martini lounge would go a long way to not making the town seem so elderly.