DB Holden

Sat, Jan 15, 2011 : 10:05 a.m.

For additional information please check out the following website. This proposal comes at a cost and adds to the long term debt burden of the taxpayers in the Saline Area Schools District. I support and encourage a NO vote on this bond proposal. http://www.sethbechtel.com/wecantaffordit/

1/11/2011

Fri, Jan 14, 2011 : 10:06 a.m.

Excellent and thank you Salinedad! Saline School's have become all about the "Administration" looking good. The Administration needs to work on keeping their promises. What are you teaching our children? I want my kid's to know what INTEGRITY is! So model it, novel idea. Let's focus on the students for once, and living within our means. Other schools do far more with a lot less, they just don't look so PRISTINE. If it is not broke, don't replace it.

tracyann

Fri, Jan 14, 2011 : 9:32 a.m.

This may be a non-issue to many but I wonder about the computers. Are they replacing computers? Or upgrading? I have a 5th grader at Heritage and every so often a laptop is brought home for the weekend. So far, only one assignment has been required on the laptops; mostly my child just plays around with it for the weekend. The laptops are MacBooks and all the other computers I've seen in at least 2 of the schools in Saline are Macs. Nothing against Macs but they are pretty expensive. Is a Mac really better than a PC? Does Apple offer discounts or something? Like I said this really isn't that big of deal but if money is really tight then maybe a PC might be a better, less expensive option instead of spending a fortune on computers with apples on them.

stunhsif

Fri, Jan 14, 2011 : 8:40 a.m.

@Salinedad, Thanks for the thorough research, you prove my points but with hard facts that do not lie. The bottom line is this bond will fail for the reasons you posted. All these tough choices have been implemented except for the teachers paying a small amount for their healthcare. But on top of that, the BOA can demand other changes that will save even more money. Freeze pay for a year or more, get rid of MESSA or make the teachers pay the entire extra cost. Change the step increases so they take longer to get or get rid of them altogether. It is time for the teachers to finally do their of feeling the pain. If they don't want to do that the taxpayers will never pass another bond or millage. Good Day No Luck Needed

Salinedad

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 11:15 p.m.

The facts are in 2003 the Saline Long Range Planning Committee recommended that the district pursue premium sharing with the SEA and other associations in the district. It also recommended the pursuit of numerous special bond initiatives and pay to play and strengthening the Saline Foundation. It also suggested that since 79% of the community opposed School of Choice, that if the district chose to pursue that option to do so very carefully and potentially with a pilot year to see if the concept would be acceptable to the community once it was started. Since that time, everything except the premium sharing with the SEA has happened. It seems like the community has continuously stepped up, and the School Board, School Administration and the SEA have not. If the district had adopted the premium sharing concept when it was presented in 2003 it would have meant $750,000 in savings in 2003 and $1.14 million in 2010. This would have been over $9 million more in operating funds since 2003. If the district had pursued seperating the SEA contract from the relationship with MESSA, this savings would have been 20% higher per year based on competitive analysis of insurance options conducted at that time. (If anyone tracks the MESSA premium profile compared to other health care choices the difference have tracked at around 20% more each year since that time through today.) This would have resulted in over $10 million in operating funds today if this had been done. If it is done in 2012 then it will be another $10 million in operating funds though 2024. We were told by the Supt and the School Board at the time, to work with them and support the bond programs, the school expansion, the school of choice, the pay to play, the advertisement at the High School and the Athletic facilities then they would address the excess in the SEA contract. It has not happened. Seems like it is time for the SEA, the School Board and the School Administration to finally do what was recommended over 8 years ago, bring the SEA contract into pariety with Ann Arbor Schools, Chelsea, Dexter, Milan and Lincoln. If they did it then this bond money is not necessary. The other option is to have the SEA buy the school buses for the District, at least then the money would go as a direct support of our children. Seems like our leadership needs to address it's own solutions before asking again for more money from us. As my father used to say to me, "prove that you can manage the money you have before asking for more." So far, our leadership has not proven that they can.

The Wind Cries

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 7:47 p.m.

By several of the statements here, it appears that teaching is one of the most lucrative jobs on the planet. For those of you who cant get past this fact you have your opportunity to join the fat cats. An article in this publication said that a $30,000 stipend is being offered to recruit more teachers. Make the sacrifice and jump on this opportunity. In addition to our parents and students the school system has two major resources that set us apart: the teachers and the facilities. If you want this community to remain one of the best in the area we must invest in it. With a city and township population of over 21,000, it is unrealistic to expect the 400 teachers to solve the districts problems. Some of you also make the assumption that these people have not had suffering in their household. I know of a number of teachers whose spouses have taken pay-cuts or been laid off, their families are not immune to the current state of the state. If you take the time to understand this, you will see that no additional money will come out of your pocket at this time. It is an extension, not an increase. It will allow the schools to borrow money at a lower rate. Therefore, in the long run they are saving money while providing the services that we have come to expect from this district. To paraphrase @momofthree, voting no on this issue only hurts the kids. And, as Jonny says, anytime and article is written about the schools two or three people can only blame the people that work hard to provide your kids with an education that many consider to be second to none. I live in the district and I am voting yes.

The Wind Cries

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 7:47 p.m.

By several of the statements here, it appears that teaching is one of the most lucrative jobs on the planet. For those of you who cant get past this fact you have your opportunity to join the fat cats. An article in this publication said that a $30,000 stipend is being offered to recruit more teachers. Make the sacrifice and jump on this opportunity. In addition to our parents and students the school system has two major resources that set us apart: the teachers and the facilities. If you want this community to remain one of the best in the area we must invest in it. With a city and township population of over 21,000, it is unrealistic to expect the 400 teachers to solve the districts problems. Some of you also make the assumption that these people have not had suffering in their household. I know of a number of teachers whose spouses have taken pay-cuts or been laid off, their families are not immune to the current state of the state. If you take the time to understand this, you will see that no additional money will come out of your pocket at this time. It is an extension, not an increase. It will allow the schools to borrow money at a lower rate. Therefore, in the long run they are saving money while providing the services that we have come to expect from this district. To paraphrase @momofthree, voting no on this issue only hurts the kids. And, as Jonny says, anytime and article is written about the schools two or three people can only blame the people that work hard to provide your kids with an education that many consider to be second to none. I live in the district and I am voting yes.

salinesal

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 6:13 p.m.

I wish those commenting would keep the tone civil and not rely on the same old rhetorical arguments. Argument #1 - The bond has nothing to do with teacher salaries and can't even be used for salaries. Saline Schools use approximately 70% of their annual income to pay salaries. They leave no money for normal expected maintenance like new roofs and replacement buses. Therefor they must constantly keep borrowing for normal capital expenditures. Everyone understands that if you need a new building that has a life of 40+ years, getting a 20 year loan to fund the construction makes perfect sense. Borrowing for a roof job and replacement buses and extending the payback 20 years into the future does not make sense. Because the Saline School District has been able continually borrow money for normal repair and replacement, salaries have become a larger and larger part of the annual budget and this leaves no money for normal upkeep. Argument #2 - You don't like kids if you vote no on this bond issue. That is a totally erroneous argument. A no vote will force the Saline School district to live within their means. I will force the district and the teachers to make the tough decisions needed to balance the budget. I would argue that those that vote no, care more about the kids, because they don't want them robbed of their financial future by making them pay tomorrow for the mistakes that are made today. Argument #3 - If you vote no, you don't care about the health and safety of our children. This is a red herring argument. Do you really think this is a safety issue? What in the world could happen to an old bus that is regularly maintained that would cause an injury to a child? With good tires, good breaks and good drivers, what could go wrong? There a probably as much chance for a faulty new bus to cause an accident as an older bus. This argument is just the same old tired scare tactics. And can you believe that health part of this new bond money is supposed to go toward new cooking equipment to make non-fried food "taste like it's fried"...give me a break. No one ever borrowed their way to prosperity. Every Church I have known, tries to pay their debt off ahead of time. Why cant the schools do the same? Think of all the wasted interest money that could be saved. The saved interest money alone could be used to buy the things the schools need. The only people that like higher taxes, are the people that are on the receiving end of those taxes in the form of bigger paychecks. Saline Schools...time to realize that you are running out of other peoples money. Now is the time to put on the breaks to your extravagant expenditures and live within your means like the rest of us... most of whom don't make our money by taxing it away from others.

salinesal

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 6:13 p.m.

I wish those commenting would keep the tone civil and not rely on the same old rhetorical arguments. Argument #1 - The bond has nothing to do with teacher salaries and can't even be used for salaries. Saline Schools use approximately 70% of their annual income to pay salaries. They leave no money for normal expected maintenance like new roofs and replacement buses. Therefor they must constantly keep borrowing for normal capital expenditures. Everyone understands that if you need a new building that has a life of 40+ years, getting a 20 year loan to fund the construction makes perfect sense. Borrowing for a roof job and replacement buses and extending the payback 20 years into the future does not make sense. Because the Saline School District has been able continually borrow money for normal repair and replacement, salaries have become a larger and larger part of the annual budget and this leaves no money for normal upkeep. Argument #2 - You don't like kids if you vote no on this bond issue. That is a totally erroneous argument. A no vote will force the Saline School district to live within their means. I will force the district and the teachers to make the tough decisions needed to balance the budget. I would argue that those that vote no, care more about the kids, because they don't want them robbed of their financial future by making them pay tomorrow for the mistakes that are made today. Argument #3 - If you vote no, you don't care about the health and safety of our children. This is a red herring argument. Do you really think this is a safety issue? What in the world could happen to an old bus that is regularly maintained that would cause an injury to a child? With good tires, good breaks and good drivers, what could go wrong? There a probably as much chance for a faulty new bus to cause an accident as an older bus. This argument is just the same old tired scare tactics. And can you believe that health part of this new bond money is supposed to go toward new cooking equipment to make non-fried food "taste like it's fried"...give me a break. No one ever borrowed their way to prosperity. Every Church I have known, tries to pay their debt off ahead of time. Why cant the schools do the same? Think of all the wasted interest money that could be saved. The saved interest money alone could be used to buy the things the schools need. The only people that like higher taxes, are the people that are on the receiving end of those taxes in the form of bigger paychecks. Saline Schools...time to realize that you are running out of other peoples money. Now is the time to put on the breaks to your extravagant expenditures and live within your means like the rest of us... most of whom don't make our money by taxing it away from others.

momofthree

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.

@Stunshif, I know all about your background, I have followed your posts and agree with most of what you write, but I disagree with you on this one. Voting no on this issue does nothing to fix the issue with the unions and their benefits. It will only push money in the general fund from classrooms to building expenses which in turn hurts our kids. @Johnny yes the buses are purchased with this money (I believe in stages, not 12 at one time), but by law are paid off in 5-7 years. Remember - this is NOT an increase in the millage rate, it is an extension of the current rate. Please everyone go to a board meeting and/or go to an information forum, please get your facts straight before you vote.

momofthree

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.

@Stunshif, I know all about your background, I have followed your posts and agree with most of what you write, but I disagree with you on this one. Voting no on this issue does nothing to fix the issue with the unions and their benefits. It will only push money in the general fund from classrooms to building expenses which in turn hurts our kids. @Johnny yes the buses are purchased with this money (I believe in stages, not 12 at one time), but by law are paid off in 5-7 years. Remember - this is NOT an increase in the millage rate, it is an extension of the current rate. Please everyone go to a board meeting and/or go to an information forum, please get your facts straight before you vote.

Jonny Spirit

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.

@RWS Yes your right, I understand that. I am just saying, this article has nothing to do with the Teachers Union, but some people always are looking to stir the pot and keep bring that subject up. This article is about a proposal to pass a bond to by buses, fix buildings, and buy new technology. This has nothing to do with teachers pay. If a article comes up about teachers and there pay, you can then fire off and good or bad comments you have. To just cry about how bad you've got it that you can't afford a new roof, and only go out to eat sometimes, nobody wants to hear about that. If you don't like the bond vote NO and talk about the article. Talk about why are we buying 12 new buses, holy cow that's a lot, and then paying them off in the year of 2025.

RWS

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 1:33 p.m.

@Johnny Spirit, you may be missing the point. If the teachers' union had agreed (which they refused to for the most part) to reopen their contracts to re-negotiate salaries and benefits (reduce/co-pay them like the rest of us), dollars would have been freed up to allocate to other budget items. Bottom line, MEA/SEA members are unwilling to be team players. Yes Johnny, teachers (employees) do have something to do with this bond issue and just about every school millage request put to the voters.

Jonny Spirit

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 12:10 p.m.

@stunhlsf. You are totally right, if you are suffering EVERYBODY must suffer. You should not suffer alone. Make everybody feel your pain. This is not fair, those idiots that decided to be teachers. Why didn't I think of that. Would you leave the teachers alone, they have nothing to do with this bond. Read the article and if you do any research you can only spend certain money on certain things, ie repairs, buses, ect... Why do you keep popping off hate towards everybody. Nobody cares about how bad you have it, please write about the article and not about your family and how the world is against you.

stunhsif

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 10:07 a.m.

momofthree said: " completely agree with you on the unions and they need to join the real world, but that is a completely separate issue." Wrong, This is not a seperate issue at all. The money the school district needs can be found in the pockets of the SEA unions, period! I graduated from Saline in 1977, have a son that graduated in 2005, a daughter that graduated in 2008,another son that will graduate in 2012 and another son that will enter the school system if fall of 2014. It is time to stop the madness. Voting no on this bond will not hurt the schools at all. It will force the BOE to face reality like the rest of us have had to do the past 5 years. I need a new roof on my house and it needs to be painted but I don't have the money. So I am cutting costs, selling non essential valuables on craigslist and ebay. We don't eat out often ( Leo's diner), don't go to the movies etc. My wife goes to school part time and has taken a part time job after my work day is done so we don't have to pay for daycare while she works for $9.50 per hour. The school district needs to do what I am doing, period! I don't have a pension, I don't get sick days at work. I don't have healthcare after I retire, I pay 85 bucks a week for lousy healthcare, have not had a raise in 4 years, took a 5% paycut two years ago and you want me to vote yes on the bond renewal so the teachers can continue getting free healthcare and all their Cadillac benefits?

momofthree

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 8:57 a.m.

Stunshif, "screw this kids"...that is exactly what you are saying by voting "no" on this proposal. This funding is necessary. There are building issues and safety concerns that must be addressed and unless we vote to pass this millage extension (NOT increase), the money will come from the general fund and the classrooms will suffer. I completely agree with you on the unions and they need to join the real world, but that is a completely separate issue.

stunhsif

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 8:15 a.m.

My wife and I will be voting NO once again. Saline teachers don't pay a dime toward their health care. Until their fat cat pensions and benefits (pay is no problem other than step raises happen way too fast) get in line with the private sector I will never vote yes on a bond or millage. The Saline School board is tight with the SEA and MEA because it is run by retired public school teachers David Friese and David Medley. They don't give a hoot what we all think all they care about is themselves and their unions. Screw the kids, scew the parents and don't you dare take a dime from the unions.

onlinejoey

Thu, Jan 13, 2011 : 7:39 a.m.

@salinesal I was at a presentation on the extension yesterday and it is not an automated bus wash. The wash area was clearly explained as an interior space due to DEQ regs related to run off. The state feels the sewer inside is better than the one outside. Typical govt over regulation? Sure but the school needs to comply. Extend it now and avoid paying more later. Also, I'm not sure we want to model Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas.

Bob Needham

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 4:21 p.m.

(comment removed because much of it was in all caps)

salinesal

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.

Here we go again. The never ending assault on the Saline Area Taxpayers for the benefit of the special interest. More money to line the pockets of Fat Cat Contractors and Union bosses. Just look at how the School Union Bosses are gouging the public... Iris Salters, MEA President - annual salary $297,458. Steve Cook, MEA Vice President - annual salary $232,301. Doug Pratt, MEA Director of Communications - annual salary $158,854. Cecilia Canfield, MEA Secretary - annual salary $83,556. Tim Cady, UniServe director - annual salary $149,041. That does not even count their benefits and expense accounts. By comparison, the average Michigan worker earned an average of $43,645 in 2009, according to Bureau of Labor statistics. This new millage proposal is simply a case of Robin Hood in reverse. The rich special interest, stealing from the poor struggling average citizen. Only difference here is that you use our children as pawns. Wake up Saline Schools!!! People in the community are loosing their jobs and their homes. You are taxing people to death while you pay yourselves six figure incomes. All paid for on the backs of us working people. You can't attract new business with higher taxes. Why do you think all the new business investment is going to the southern states like Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas. It's time for you to cut back...just like we the people are doing! The schools receive plenty of money to provide a world class education for our kids. Absolutely no more money for you! You must educate the children within your means and stop borrowing more money from the future to feed your own fat paychecks. p.s And I cant believe you want to use some of this borrowed money to build your very own "automated bus wash". Good grief, hire some kids after school to wash your buses. Give them a hose and a long brush. I can't even afford to put a roof on my house...and you want an automated bus wash? God help us!

RWS

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.

Right on 1/11/2011! Not only have the VOTERS given their answer once, but really twice with the defeat of the WISD end-around not long before. What really needs to be on a ballot is a proposal to stop the never-ending bombardment of "revised" proposals from a school board that collectively doesn't seem to understand what No means in plain English. I certainly had enough information to decide how to vote on this bond proposal the last time, and have enough this time too.

Kelly

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 1:12 p.m.

I am very disappointed to hear that this bond is not going towards the hiring of new teachers. After the bond proposal was defeated last year, many teachers received pink-slips. Luckily, not all teachers that received pink-slips were let go because of retirement, job position changes, etc. However, class sizes in the elementary schools (especially Harvest) are too high in my opinion. I am not convinced that the bond will improve my student's academic career. Personally, I don't care about the "high quality facilities," that is not why my son attends Saline schools! Shouldn't Mr. Graden be concerned with retaining current students by offering better academic choices rather than luring parents with "high quality facilities"?

1/11/2011

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.

These are items that should come out of the general fundbut all those funds are being used for administrations salaries, teachers salaries and stipends for teachers. Pay to participate was increased this year only to help pay the coaches salaries, not to benefit the sports programs. Go to the teachers.. We gave you our answer already, what is it that you dont understandReferral time, because you are wasting my time.

SMAIVE

Wed, Jan 12, 2011 : 11:27 a.m.

School building improvements and cost savings projects with long -term payback make sense, as may some kitchen and security equipment, but technology or anything with a life span far less than the overall payback are highly questionable. Is this the plan for replacing buses, computers and short-lived technology from now on out? Sorry, but I can't support the latter.