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Posted on Thu, May 23, 2013 : 5:57 a.m.

Ypsilanti officials remain split on denial of public presentation against hybrid safety department

By Katrease Stafford

Ypsilanti City Council members remain divided by a decision to not allow firefighters and state fire officials make a public presentation against the creation of a hybrid police and fire department.

The issue was brought back into the spotlight after Ypsilanti Fire Union President Ken Hobbs spoke during council's Tuesday public participation portion of the meeting.

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.Courtney Sacco I AnnArbor.com

"Shame on you for not allowing us, the city of Ypsilanti firefighters on the agenda to present documentation strictly from a budget standpoint," Hobbs said. " The city manager claims there will be $2.1 million in savings to implement his PSO hybrid public safety plan. We have facts to counter this assumption."

AnnArbor.com reported last week that City Council Member Susan Moeller requested the presentation be added to a future council meeting after being approached by Hobbs. Moeller stated the possible creation of a hybrid model should be discussed more in-depth in the public, since it would affect citizens.

In order to have a presentation added to an agenda, a council member must first propose the addition and it must be seconded by another council member. Moeller failed to secure a second.

Moeller said council members cited union negotiations as their reason for not being interested in the public presentation, but Moeller and Hobbs said the presentation would not have discussed negotiations.

"It is not illegal for them to be on the agenda because there are negotiations," Moeller said, while addressing council. "It was decided that you folks didn’t want to hear them while there were negotiations."

Mayor Paul Schreiber said negotiations have been going on for awhile and slow-moving.

"Any discussion with council is really hopping over the city manger and going to council," Schreiber said. "And certainly there’s going to be no final decision made on public safety until we have the union contract settled with the fire department. We need to get the contract done first and then we can talk about public safety. Once we get the contract negotiated with the fire union, I would personally welcome a presentation by the firefighters."

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Council Member Daniel Vogt

Courtney Sacco | AnnArbor.com

Moeller interrupted Schreiber saying she couldn't let him continue with a statement she believed to be false and "misleading" because she believes there would be no point for a presentation once the contract is approved.

"Paul, I can’t let you continue like that," Moeller said. "If you already have a contract with them, I don’t get how you can listen to PSO after you already tried to put PSO in their contract. It's not making sense to me. I understand you folks don’t want to hear from the firefighters and they are employees of the city and we are the council and I think you should hear them but if you don’t, that’s your right. Why wouldn’t you want to hear their view before the contract?"

In April, council approved the Police Officers Association of Michigan contract, which contains language related to the possible creation of a hybrid department.

The contract allows the POAM to incorporate the position of public safety officer into their union. In the event that the city elects to create the classification of a public safety officers, unit members who become PSO's will receive seven percent above the police officer wage scale.

Earlier this year, City Manager Ralph Lange announced the city would pursue creating a hybrid police and fire department. Lange said the two departments would be stand-alone, but supplemented with cross-trained public safety officers who would be equipped to do both jobs.

The Ypsilanti hybrid model would cross-train police officers and firefighters to perform both duties. Officials said present city employees would have the option of being cross-trained.

Several firefighters and former Fire Chief Jon Ichesco have openly voiced their opposition to the hybrid model and urged the city to move forward with regionalization.

Hobbs cited Kalamazoo as an example, saying if the city were to convert back to traditional police and fire departments, it would save $7.9 million in personnel only. Kalamazoo has the state's largest public safety department with more than 200 cross-trained public safety officers.

"We use Kalamazoo as an example because Kalamazoo keeps being mentioned as this place where PSO works," Hobbs said. "These facts and the rest of the information we have, we weren’t allowed to present."

Council Member Daniel Vogt said he believes there is a misconception that council isn't considering the pros and cons of the creation of a hybrid police and fire department.

"That’s absolutely false," Vogt said. "I think that the purpose here is to save the city financially and to protect basic services. We need to find whatever method may work for our city. The pros and cons that other cities have faced are based upon their particular circumstances, their political circumstances, political will, their finances and their particular history.

"So its very difficult to make generalizations about public safety as it applies to this city because we have to pick a model that works whether it includes public safety on not. What has been discussed is a model that’s been fine tuned to fit our particular financial and social need."

Vogt said council welcomes anyone who may have an opinion about an issue affecting the city.

"Formally or informally, you don't have to make a formal presentation to send something in the mail or by email," Vogt said. "If you have something you want to talk about you're welcome to do it. You can come twice during public participation."

Hobbs said regardless of council's opinion, the public should be allowed to hear both sides.

"PSO needs to be discussed in an open forum and have input from residents," Hobbs said. "A prior decision that the Ypsilanti city council thought would be best for citizens, resulted in Water Street. If this council continues on the path it's going on, you’re going to have your own Water Street and it's going to be PSO."

Katrease Stafford covers Ypsilanti for AnnArbor.com.Reach her at katreasestafford@annarbor.com or 734-623-2548 and follow her on twitter.

Comments

Cindy Brief-Tomlinson

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 9:21 p.m.

Every one of fire dept members not on duty should use the public comment time at the end of the meeting to do their presentation in waves of information, and overwhelm them.

nickcarraweigh

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 6:01 p.m.

Shut up, they explained.

moonunit

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 4:13 p.m.

One round-about way to make the presentation is to use audience particiation by having 6-8 consecutive audience members each give a 3-minute piece of the presentation. Break the presentation into 6 to 8 key points and have one speaker per point. Recognize that the City Council members, per past experience, have their minds pretty much made up, The only thing that will change their minds is very active feedback from the community. So engaging with the community then marshalling the forces to come to a Council meeting and presenting a united front is much more powerful way to proceed. I don't know the best way to proceed because I haven't heard what the options are and the pros and cons of each, and I am pretty active and aware. So we need good discussion here and that probably is not at a City Council meeting since public discussion isn't allowed. Maybe there should be "discussion" at Spark East one evening for the public to attend. The public is actually pretty good at determining a good way to proceed when give the facts.

moonunit

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 5:26 p.m.

If you are referring to my continued comments on the Family Dollar decision, I remain passionately against the decision made by City Council based upon my many discussions with people in Ypsi, having seen many of the presentations, having participated in Shape Ypsi, and understanding the visions from the past. It was a bad decision. But I am also learning how to play the game in City politics, and it is a game or process that needs to be learned. It is the people of this town that have the power to sway City Council. Not enough participated to change their minds on Family Dollar. Though a few can make good cases for a particular point of view, it is a numbers game when it comes to changing minds of City Council members. So in this case, and I don't know right answer here, enough citizens need to get informed and then speak their minds to City Council accordingly, either by email, phone calls and/or audience participation. I do know that we have a really good fire department with highly skilled firemen in Ypsilanti, and this skill is not only from education but from years of experience. If firemen do the wrong thing, people can die and situatons can get worse. So above all else, we need a fire department staffed with the best possible people.

azo.geek

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 4:53 p.m.

Dave H, you're absolutely correct, but you have to admit that you whine when you don't get your way.

Katrease Stafford

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 3:53 p.m.

I just received word that the presentation will now be allowed at the June 4 regular council meeting. I'm working to confirm this and I will have more information on this soon.

Nicholas Urfe

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 3:44 p.m.

They need to give this presentation to the public, and then have the public decide whether they will pressure the Council. The news media will surely report the presentation and people can judge their position on the merits.

Murf

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 1:26 p.m.

I hope this public presentation to some degree can also make the rounds at the various neighborhood association meetings. If the city council doesn't want to listen, the people who vote them into office will gladly do it.

LC

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 2:10 p.m.

i've been two meetings since moeller was elected. she clearly doesn't read the information before the meeting. she's an embarrassment to people living in ward 2.

trespass

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 1 p.m.

The solution to bad speech is more speech to paraphrase a famous quote. Here we have firefighters wanting to tell their side of the story but the Council does not want the public to hear it or the news reporters to report it. To me that says that the Council does not want the public to participate in the debate. Only the elite members of Council can understand the issues well enough to participate in the debate. That is democracy?

trespass

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 2:41 p.m.

@beardown- I understand what you are saying but I am not suggesting that the public vote on the proposal but rather that it would inform the voter at the next election to know the pros & cons of their representatives vote on the issue. The public body is subject to the Open Meetings Act and they are supposed to deliberate their decisions in public. This should be part of the public deliberations.

beardown

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 2:26 p.m.

Nope, that is a representative republic, which is the actual form of government that the United States has. If everything was voted for by the people, ala only voting initiatives, then we would be closer to a democracy. You elect someone to speak for you. If you don't like what they say or they vote contrary to your opinions, you vote for someone else. Or, in the case of most of our elections, people just vote for a party and have no clue what is going on.

RFD

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 12:57 p.m.

Thank you to Ms Moeller for requesting the presentation be added to a future council meeting........ "creation of a hybrid model should be discussed in more detail since it would affect citizens." I am very puzzled why providing more information (which in my opinion seems to be lacking from our city manager) would be per Mr Schrieber, "hopping over the city manager and going to counsel." To me this has the distinct feeling of with-holding information and preventing citizens from becoming more educated on an issues that is one of the most important issues to our city. Safety and security of our front line , first responders and the citizens of Ypsilanti. This concern reaches far beyond contract negotiations. Mr Vogt stated that " counsel welcomes anyone who may have an opinion on this issue" . I strongly suggested that those who are interested in acquiring more information contact their counsel representative. We need to do what is possible in this financially difficult time, to support those that support and protect us. We need to advocate that their voices are heard. Hearing a presentation 'after the fact' would be superfluous and frankly the suggestion is condescending to those who risk their lives for us daily.

Nicholas Urfe

Thu, May 23, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.

Ypsi residents need to get off their couches and speak at these meetings. With some effort, they could greatly influence the process. If they instead choose to stay on the couch, their government will give them more Water Street. Take your pick.