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Posted on Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 3:08 p.m.

Second consecutive 4-0 start doesn't mean much for Michigan football team

By Pete Bigelow


Michigan junior slot receiver Roy Roundtree finds room against Bowling Green. Roundtree had nine catches for 118 yards Saturday. He has 20 catches for 211 yards this season.

Melanie Maxwell |

The Wolverines remember.

As excited as they felt following Saturday’s 65-21 win over Bowling Green, a lopsided game that set records and stretched the Michigan football team's record to 4-0 this season, it doesn’t mean much.

It was only last year when the optimism of a 4-0 start was quickly crushed by a 1-7 mark over the season’s final two months. This time, the Wolverines know better.

“We have to remind the team of that this year every week,” team captain Stephen Schilling said. “Not to get too high on yourself, because we saw what happened last year.”

If not for a last-minute victory over Indiana at home, the Wolverines would have finished winless in the Big Ten.

They’ll start their 2010 conference schedule against those same Hoosiers (3-0) on Saturday (3:30 p.m., ESPNU) in Bloomington, Ind.

“Indiana’s a good team, and I’m excited to go out there and play them again,” said Tate Forcier, who directed last year’s game-winning drive and, more recently, completed 12 of 12 passes against Bowling Green to set Michigan’s single-game completion percentage record.

“They gave us a run for our money when they came in here last year. I love going to away stadiums. It’s always fun having everyone against you.”

Forcier’s performance Saturday demonstrated that the Wolverines, who inched up one spot in this weeks’ AP Top 25 poll to No. 20, have at least two - and probably three - dangerous quarterbacks.

That’s the biggest difference between the Wolverines' 2009 perfect September and their current 4-0 record: options at quarterback.

“It’s night and day,” quarterbacks coach Rod Smith said. “I’ve got three guys I think can play. … I think we’re a lot better now. Are we where we want to be? No. They’re not close to being the players I know they can be. Which is a good thing.”

One key difference between this year’s team and last year’s headed into the Indiana game is Denard Robinson, who is expected to play Saturday despite sustaining a minor knee injury against Bowling Green.

Last year, he completed two of three passes and rushed 11 times for 45 yards against the Hoosiers. This year, he’s the nation’s leading rusher through four games and directs the nation’s second-best yardage offense.

Even though Robinson played just eight minutes against Bowling Green, he still amassed 129 rushing yards Saturday, and has 688 on the season along with six rushing touchdowns. After Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett threw three interceptions Saturday against Alabama, Robinson’s position as a Heisman Trophy candidate certainly didn’t get hurt.

But Smith cautions against looking too far ahead.

“We’re way over-hyping him right now,” he said of Robinson. “I know it’s fun for everyone, but he’s a four-game starter. Let him play some more.”

Overall, the Wolverines looked flawless against Bowling Green. But only one week removed from a scare against UMass, they’re hardly overconfident.

“You’re just happy to get wins this early in the season, keep getting these young kids experience,” secondary and special teams coach Tony Gibson said. “I’m happy with our progress to this point. … We need to get better. Obviously, you’re never satisfied with where you’re at.”

Pete Bigelow can be reached at (734) 623-2556 or e-mailed at Follow him on Twitter @PeterCBigelow.



Thu, Sep 30, 2010 : 11:24 a.m.

I think you recruit and draft players to be if you have one, get him the ball. That's why the moved chuck woodson to WR and punt return. Getting the ball to your playmakers is just one trick, not necessarily a one trick pony. If UM gets a RB this recruiting class like D. Hart, who has explosive speed, that just adds another trick.


Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 10:32 p.m.

Answers, IMO, to your questions: Florida/Tebow - YES! W/O Tebow, FL offense stunk. See the game vs UK last year. NO/Brees - YES! W/O Brees, that team would be dead Indy/Manning - YES! Same as NO. See last 2 games of last season. NE/Brady - NO! NE won 11 games w/o him. OU/Bradford - NO! OU won 8 games, including a bowl w/o Bradford last year. Detroit/Barry - Maybe! Folks forget Barry spent a couple of seasons where he was hurt weeks at a time. Detroit had a winning record in those games, but Barry was freakin' awesome.


Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 6:58 p.m.

I wonder if those who believe UM is a "one trick pony" would also consider Florida a one trick pony with Tebow, or New Orleans with Brees, or Indie with Manning, or NE with Brady. What about when Sam Bradford was passing for all those yards in OK? Barry Sanders at Det. Should Det. apologize for making the playoffs with Barry despite a crappy rest of the team?


Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 7:41 a.m.

I'm trying to find where any one equated a convincing win w/NOT being a Michigan man. Sorry, I'm not finding it. I think folks rightly questioned puffing your chest out and thinking its a big deal to whup an overmatched opponent. (I also find it amusing that someone was able to find 3 wins by 3 different coaches that were more convincing than this past weeks, which is completely counter to the argument being posted by the RR fans.) Michigan should defeat teams like BG like this. They also should have beaten UMass like this. The problem isn't the win, it's in the significance of the win. Also, most if not all of those of us opposed to RR don't "revel" in Michigan defeats. Personally, I hate it. It kills me to watch us lose. The problem is that RR has "killed" me more times in his 2 seasons than LC (whom I didn't care for either) did in his last 5 seasons and those were not a good stretch of 5 seasons either. I don't want losing football at Michigan and that's the point. We didn't have losing football at Michigan until RR got here. Spin it however you want, he's not performed well since arriving on campus. You will never convince me that LC would have went 3-9 after that 2007 season and as I said, I didn't like Lloyd. There was no rebuilding program necessary at Michigan, that is, until RR showed up.


Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 6:48 a.m.

Wins and championships * Highest all-time winning percentage in NCAA Division I-A/FBS history (.737) * Most all-time wins in NCAA Division I-A/FBS history (881) * The most winning seasons (110) * The most undefeated seasons of teams currently competing in Division I-A/FBS (23) * One of only three schools with a winning record against every Division I-A/FBS conference


Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 6:33 a.m.

Wins and championships Highest all-time winning percentage in NCAA Division I-A/FBS history (.737) Most all-time wins in NCAA Division I-A/FBS history (881) The most winning seasons (110) The most undefeated seasons of teams currently competing in Division I-A/FBS (23) One of only three schools with a winning record against every Division I-A/FBS conference Michigan is the all-time leader in wins and 100 years from now... they will still be the all-time leader in wins... Why? because I am their #1 fan and I am the greatest man on Earth... I should be elected President for life... Michigan already had one President Gerald R. Ford from my Hometown; Grand Rapids...The Country should be named after me...Rich Rodriguez is a wealthy man, his kids and Grand-kids are set for life... so have no fear Michigan fans, we will lose some games but we will still be #1 all time... We have a 57-43-6 advantage over The Ohio State University, they will NEVER even the score...I have spoken, no other comments are neccessary

The Wolverine

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 9:46 p.m.

Right on MichiganMan5, Michigan is going to make a bowl game this season, and they will beat one of the three teams you listed, Our offense is way too good, starting next week, MICH 63 - IU 21, somewhere in that area, ALL HAIL KING RICH-ROD AND HIS GLORIOUS SPREAD!!! (now we can actually score, which means we can actually win)


Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 9:10 p.m.

I am gonna guarntee a bowl game for Michigan this season, we go 5-0 this weekend, then we will have little trouble beating Illinois and Purdue, we are capable of beating MSU and might just pull out a good one against Iowa, Penn State, or Wisconsin, would be great if we could win 2 out of those 3 though. GO BLUE!


Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

To all the haters: Some of you say RR is not a Michigan man because he ran up the score. Well if you look up some of Bo's games, like 11-1-1986. UM 69 Illinois 13. Thats a worse beatdown than last Saturday. How about Mo on 9-26-1992. Michigan 63-13 over Minnesota. What about LC win over Indiana in 2000, a 58-0 beatdown. So, all of the so called 'Michigan Men' put a beatdown on others and it is OK. What gives? I like all beatdowns. If the other team don't like it, tell them to stop us. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th string guys work hard for many years and should get some glory once in a career.


Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 4:30 p.m.

I am not sold on RR. I want to be, but I'm not. Some of you though, quite frankly, disgust me. You stand there doing some sort of victory dance gleefully pouring gasoline on this season's funeral pyre. It seems you are bigger fans of getting to score some cheap rhetorical internet points for your sense of e-vanity, and getting to say 'I told you so' on a website, than our team. Yes I said it-- I am questioning your status as a Michigan fan, you can bluster with righteous indignation all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you are celebrating RR's failure. And you are, you are rollng in it as happy as a hound on a rotting carcass. You appear to want this season to be a disaster. Hal Mumme could become our coach tomorrow and I still would want the fellas to strive for excellence. And wouldn't quibble one moment because 'my guy' wasn't chosen. Yes, some of the yes-men and fanboys are nuts, but at least their heart is in the right place-- they want to see greatness. You want to see failure, and that is why you disgust me.

Sean T.

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 10:34 a.m.

Heartbreak, Your assessment of the Lloyd Carr situation is right on point. I'm not understanding why the blame on lack of talent would be set on LC when we were always in the national championship picture in preseason polls. The only thing we may differ in, is with Denard. I think Denard would've did the same thing last year if he had a spring practice under his belt like Tate. I also think Denard is very talented but his ceiling isn't as high as many think. I watched each of our games this year and thought he did good but I'm waiting to see if he can make throws in tight spaces or in between the gaps in zone defenses before I can say he's greatly improved. Most of his work is on the the 6yard slant or cross and the overused hitch. My point is, I don't believe if he is slowed by injury, he will be able to win the game for us by passing. Of course he has two more years to show it though. But we have to be honest that we have been outrunning teams to our victories this year.


Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 9:09 a.m.

I have been critical of RR since his hiring (though I really believe he has coached DR and the offense excellently this year, and last year to this year for Tate and DR is amazing--let's give credit). But I don't understand--there are people who say 'LC underachieved', yet say he 'left the cupboard bare' for RR. If LC underachieved, then his talent was great and he did not do enough with it. If he had no talent, than LC was the best coach in history for never going below 7-5 reg season. Which is it? I personally think RR sacrificed LC's players for his own offensive system, rather than putting them into a position to win by adapting to the talent that was here. Now that RR has a majority of his own players in, his system is working great, but that does not explain the last 2 years. And defensively, need I say more? RR is responsible for that too.

Sean T.

Tue, Sep 28, 2010 : 7:28 a.m.

Kubrick, I"m not a horse. (LOL) And if you give your horses kool-aid then shame on you! Dwayne, I like the fight in you but I guess the season will have to tell the story. In my earlier post I stated how much Denard equates to our wins and it's truly not disputeable when the whole country and statistics says the same thing. Let's get the Hoosiers!


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 10:31 p.m.

4-0 is a good start, no doubt. We've beaten 2 teams that I thought would be better than they've shown themselves to be (UConn and ND) and 2 teams we should have destoyed. DRob's been awesome, the defense has been pathetic. This week we'll see if we're actually for real. We'll get to see what a decent offense w/a QB that should be available for the entire game can do vs yet again a last place defense. I'm a true blue fan. I bleed maize and blue. I graduated from UofM in 88 (though for some reason that I've heard here,that actually makes me suspect ). I'll be rooting for them every game. I want them to win. The difference between now and say 4 or 5 years ago is, unfortunately, I have come to EXPECT us to lose. Facts are facts and through 2 full seasons, we're 8-16. Spin that however you want, RR's effort at Michigan has been poor. The statements that he some how had to "rebuild" the program and should therefore get a "pass" is absurd. Ultimately, RR's fate is based upon the onfield performance this year, which is as it should be. It's all that the folks, like myself, who think he should go have been asking for. Let the product on the field be the judge.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 9:13 p.m.

Lemons, you are worse than 3andout. At least, he has a couple of things that he repeats over and over. With you, it's 3 - 13 in the Big Ten. Whatever, you will never understand a coaching transition, so be it. We get it, your still looking for Bo Schembechler the IV in Jim Harbaugh to come to Michigan. Let me just touch on the few things that you mention. First of all, here are a few rankings for you: Final Rankings 2007 WVU - #6 Michigan - #18 Final Rankings 2006 WVU - #10 Michigan - #8 Final Rankings 2005 WVU - #5 Michigan - Unranked I would say that RR did more with less. Oh and btw, he did go undefeated in the Big East in 2005. You might also want to check wikipedia regarding NCAA National Champions in the last ten years, the spread offense (or variations of it) is very well represented. Skewed facts? Boy, you don't have to go far for that. Start off with Mallet. "RR didn't try to get him to stay...he can't adapt his coaching to his players". Absolutely absurd statements there. Mallet was recruited by Lloyd, as a drop back, pro-style quarter back and he was homesick. Him leaving to go home to Arkansas was a no-brainer and rumors of him leaving started before RR was even hired. So, to say that he left because RR didn't want him or couldn't adapt to him or didn't try hard enough to get him to stay...skewed. That's okay, though. Keep hatin, it won't change anything. RR is going to do what he is going to do, despite the haters. Sounds like you folks are already circulating the memo to down play Indiana as Big Ten competition, so I guess the first real "we'll see" moment will come against the Sparty's, but you guys have plenty of time to get your excuses lined up for that win.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 9:11 p.m.

Lemansblue Has Harbaugh been to the next level? RR was very close to playing in the NC game at WV. According to your logic, if RR is to go,we can only hire a coach that has been at or won the NC. Unrealistic.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:12 p.m.

What facts are being skewed? RR is 3-13 against the Big Ten. That is almost as funny as Wv was a powerhouse program they never had a undeafeated season in the weak Big East now he came here to take us to the next level? He has never been to the next level. As far as the spread running offense being the next trend better check National champs Alabama pro style offense with a great defense


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:56 p.m.

Sean T, I completely respect the fact that you have an idea of where things are going, but are willing to wait and see if it actually plays out that way. That's much different than most of the anti-RR gang that simply don't like the guy and will skew every fact in that direction. Which brings me to 3andout, those stats were just Bowling Green. I know that they certainly look like four games worth of stats, doesn't it? But to your point, those stats weren't cited as as means of showing just how destructive our offense will be to the Big Ten. They were cited simply to demonstrate that the offense is progressing and is much more balanced than the previous games. Believe me, your demise projections are noted, from the initial 3-9 to the revised 7-5. We shall see how the Big Ten schedule plays out. I'd like to say that I'm as confident that we will do well as you are that we won't, but I've not been out here declaring National Title contention. I expect to see progression. I expect to beat the teams that we are supposed to beat and compete in the ones that we're expected to lose. If we do that, anything can happen and I'm looking forward to an exciting Big Ten run. The fact that DRob will be in the Heisman hunt, is an added bonus. Go Blue!


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:45 p.m.

You can lead a horse to water...

Sean T.

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:40 p.m.

We are a one trick pony fellas. I know when any starter is out that you can expect a drop-off a bit. But I expected you to use the Bowling Green game as an example so I figured that I'd ask you to look up the Previous three games. Sorry, but we are a one trick pony! Do you think we would've beaten ND without Denard? How about UMASS or even UCONN? I have serious doubts and I'm willing to say that we don't have a significant threat at RB to propose stopping the run except Denard Robinson. I know you guys believe that we are going in the right direction and I think it's valiant but I think it's a mirage. But I'm willing to let the Coach and the team prove me wrong.

3 And Out

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:19 p.m.

with all due respect....citing stats vs. a bad UConn defense, terrible ND defense, a DII team and a really really rotten defense in BG will mean 0 when the BT season starts. Luckily for us we start with IU who has the worst defense (other than ours) in the BT....after that well we'd better buckle it up cause its not going to be easy for our finesse offense vs. the rest of the BT.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:06 p.m.

Sean T, The idea that this offense is a one trick pony is utter non-sense. Any offense is going to have a drop off, if it loses it's starter, but we are building depth and experience at the position. You only need to look to Saturday for evidence of that. Both Tate and Gardner had success in relief of DRob. This offense will get it done in so many ways. I honestly don't understand how you guys can't see that. Here are a few stats for what you refer to as the one trick pony: Michigan vs Bowling Green Passing Tate 12-12 110yds 1TD Devin 7-10 85yds 1TD DRob 4-4 60yds Rushing DRob 5-129yds 2TD Toussaint 2-66 1TD Smith 12-62 2TD Shaw 12-59 1TD Cox 6-56 Hopkins 6-32 Tate 4-30 Devin 6-25 1TD Receiving Roundtree 9-118 Stonum 3-38 Grady 2-26 Gallon 2-25 1TD Hemingway 2-25 Odems 2-16 McColgan 1-2 1TD That's 721 yards of total offense (DRob less than 30 percent) and that's getting it done. The RBs are beginning to show production and there is a ton of depth there. The receivers are beginning to get very comfortable in the offense. And there is depth at the QB position. This offense is far from a one trick pony, but I don't really expect you to see that. Your type will never give RR the credit for his coaching accomplishments. It's pretty incredible, actually. Wasn't it the 2005 season that had pretty high expectations, but injuries to Henne and Hart throughout the season caused a few disappointing losses?


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:02 p.m.

Sean T. With all due respect your point about the offense doesn't hold water. You can't subtract Denard's "80%" and say without him we'll only have 20% of the remaining offense. If Denard goes out guess what? We get to replace him with another player. This weekend showed what the offense is capable of without him. Forcier and Gardner might not be able to put up the individual stats that Denard has, but that doesn't mean the team as a whole can't. The real key of the offense lies with the offensive line. They stay healthy and "The Team" should be capable of scoring against anyone.

Sean T.

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:56 p.m.

Camaro, My point is that we are a "one trick pony" and now the pony has a busted leg. There are many posters that believe that we are significantly improved but I think we're not! I think we are riding the success of our Stallion and the only other option is Tate Forcier but he won't see the field because he's the third stringer. Denard's about 80% of the offense and that's way too much to be successful in the Big Ten season.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:44 p.m.

Sawn T. Did we borrow DRob? Last time I checked, he was on our team. So why would you say what would happen with out him? What would happen without Molk? What about Mike Martin? Each is a very important part of the TEAM! So, DRob has all the stats, who cares. I know our defense is bad. As long as we outscore the otherguys, we win. As long as we can score each time we have the ball, who cares if the otherguys run it down our throat. We can outscore them. I liked Bo and Mo and LC, but a W is a W.

Sean T.

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:34 p.m.

RR and the 2010 season rides on the legs of Denard Robinson just like he depended on Pat White for 4 years at WV. If Denard's healthy then we may have a shot at doing some good things because he is phenomenal. But we have to be honest that even our offense isn't really that great either. We have great stats but subtract Denards TD's and total yards away and compare them with the rest of the team. It's pretty scary isn't it? I believe that stats don't lie but they can be very misleading. This team is as good as Denard makes us and I believe that RR is a charlatan and he is not a very good coach but as long as Denard's healthy.....RR will be the coach at Michigan! If the talent in the Big Ten is as good as expected we may have a disappointing season. But let's hope we can continue to win, Hail.

3 And Out

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:32 p.m.

Thinking: Good post sir... Here is what most of us true Michigan fans and alums want starting next season:

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:29 p.m.

You put yourself in position every year to win the conference title, and the championships take care of themselves in the long run. If you call 21 titles in 39 years "occasional," I see what you mean. But how you don't see the difference between always competitive and 3-13 is beyond me. The last two years have been an unprecedented failure. Carr won a lot. If there were a real playoff system in college football, he would have made the playoffs most years. He coached to his talent. Why is that a bad thing? If you don't, you're always one injury away from a 3-9 season. Florida looks good to me this year, by the way.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 3:10 p.m.

Thinking, Maybe RR could take a few classes at Miami of Ohio and then coach under Tressel for a few years, then maybe he'd be a 'Michigan Man'. Being 81 doesn't make your opinion of RR any more right. Here's a question, how do you know how he feels about his players? Seriously, do you know him, have you spoken to him? It's one thing to talk about whether or not you like a guys system or whether he can 'adapt' to a different offense, but to question how he feels about his players, that's bush league. You don't know him, any more than I know you. Oh, and now he's running up the score and putting players at risk. Wow, when does it end? The guy will never be able to do right in your eyes. Denard could have gone back in the game, but they held him out. Running up the score, don't get me started. Absolutely one of the biggest things that I hated about Lloyd. You have young men out there that need experience, you don't lay down because you think you've got the game won. The goal of the game was not to win, that was a foregone conclusion. The goal was to get guys experience in the offense, get RBs and WRs that had been previously injured some reps and to make adjustments on defense. They did a great job with most of that. If BSU doesn't want anymore points scored on them, they have the option of playing defense. Running up the score, what a joke. Carr used to drive me crazy with the rush-rush-rush-punt offense, whenever he got up by two TDs. Lost enough games doing that, too.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 3:10 p.m.

yes it may not have been 3 yrds and a cloud of dust but it WAS conservative Lloyd, underachieving with the talent he had... Im willing to bet there were just as many ppl calling for Lloyds head after baffling losses and games against USC in which we were manhandled... I am so tired of this elitest attitude of "thats U-M football" well that brand of football won ONE championship in 50 years, we as fans are in no way in the position of being particular with the style of coaching with that resume. there have been plenty of teams who evolved away from the "old guard" and won RECENTLY (Oklahoma, UF, even O$U championship was different than their typical offense) and to say you should adapt your system to the players on your roster, look at UF this year, the struggles that team is having shows how sometimes its not always easy putting a rectangle in a square peg. its just that they have enough weapons across the board to mask the issue they are having at QB. and to say RR has access to better athletes is true, but they still have to WANT to come to U-M. Parity is rampant across the country where you have players shuffling in/out of good programs looking for better opportunities... look at the Cam Newton, he left UF because of Tebow and now is flourishing at Auburn so far... I bet florida would love to still have him


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:53 p.m.

"Carr built offenses and defenses to suit players he recruited. He recruited the best athletes he could find. He was enormously successful." If the goal was to win the occasional Big Ten Championship, I guess that would be correct. However, if you had ambitions of competing nationally, I don't think that would be the case. Since 1997, Carr was more successful at teasing with NC aspirations, not competing for one. I only say that to point out how willing you were to accept an 8-4 season under Carr, because it was done with a Pro-Style offense. Who determined that was the only way to play college football? You guys remind me of British troops that are upset because the Americans aren't lining up to fight like they are 'supposed to'. Give me a break. That game against BSU was very exciting to watch and it's not a gimmick. The offense has multiple successful running backs, numerous receivers that are making plays. When is the last time that you saw three QBs go in and be successful in an offense in one game? I am getting so sick of hearing how 'good coaches adapt'. Please. We didn't hire RR to adapt to Lloyd's recruits, get over that. RR was brought in here to implement his system, the national championship contending system that puts athletes in space and lets them do what they do. This year, Michigan will be sending an athlete to New York City. Next year, they'll be sending a lot of athletes to a BCS game. Deal with it.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:53 p.m.

I'm am 81-year old alumna, a U of M fan for longer than some of you ranting here have lived. I come from a different generation, one which considers more than just wins and losses. Allow me to tell you why I hope the new athletic director fires RR at the end of the season. This man cares only about himself and winning, not about the players, not about the school, not about its traditions, not about ethics. Why would he start Denard against an obviously undermatched opponent, and take the chance if his being injured, and why would he run up the score by 44 points? To make himself look like a winner and to save his job--That's why! He claimed he was innocent of any misdoing in the violations scandal and tried to blame others for his failure to run his department. Why? To try to mitigate his chances of being fired--That's why! At the beginning of his first year here, he was quoted in the newspaper being critical of his players for not trying hard enough to learn his system. Why? To explain their inability to win games, and excuse his own shortcomings at a coach--That's why! RR will never be a "Michigan man". I'm looking forward to the end of this season when, hopefully, he'll go the way of the infamous "halo.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:40 p.m.

yes it may not have been 3 yrds and a cloud of dust but it WAS conservative Lloyd, underachieving with the talent he had... Im willing to bet there were just as many ppl calling for Lloyds head after baffling losses and games against USC in which we were manhandled... I am so tired of this elitest attitude of "thats U-M football" well that brand of football won ONE championship in 50 years, we as fans are in no way in the position of being particular with the style of coaching with that resume. there have been plenty of teams who evolved away from the "old guard" and won RECENTLY (Oklahoma, UF, even O$U championship was different than their typical offense) and to say you should adapt your system to the players on your roster, look at UF this year, the struggles that team is having shows how sometimes its not always easy putting a rectangle in a square peg. its just that they have enough weapons across the board to mask the issue they are having at QB. and to say RR has access to better athletes is true, but they still have to WANT to come to U-M. Parity is rampant across the country where you have players shuffling in/out of good programs looking for better opportunities... look at the Cam Newton, he left UF because of Tebow and now is flourishing at Auburn so far... I bet florida would love to still have him

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 1:51 p.m.

I keep reading the "three yards and a cloud of dust" complaints. I wonder if those posters actually watched football at Michigan during the last 20 years. This only fits some of Schembechler's years. Not all, though. He threw the ball when he felt that was the best strategy. Carr built offenses and defenses to suit players he recruited. He recruited the best athletes he could find. He was enormously successful. Carr, Moeller and Schembechler coached 39 years combined. Michigan won or tied for the Big Ten title 21 times in those 39 years. They were always a threat. That's Michigan football. It's not one particular style stretched to fit every athlete. Good coaches adapt. Rodriguez has access to better athletes now that he's coaching in an elite league. He has not adapted. He doesn't seem to have any interest in 60% of the game (defense and special teams). It shows. Five years ago, everyone was tanked about the Rich spread variation. Now it's the Pistol variation (which I'm sure takes some pieces from the Rich spread variation). Michigan football has never been about trendy offenses and absent defenses. Rich Rodriguez has turned Michigan into the Tickle Me Elmo of the college football world. We don't have to do that to win games. In fact, we shouldn't if we want to keep building on that long-term excellence.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 1:42 p.m.

i wonder if all these RR must go fans will still be in agreement IF he is let go and they DONT bring in harbaugh? what if they go after someone like chris peterson (which runs a non-traditional type offense) one poster summed it up, if they let RR go after this year they will be taking 1 if not 2 steps back, because then you would have to revist the who issue of players not fitting the system and the coach saying i need time to get "MY" players in. this is RR's second recruiting class and while I dont want to call for a BCS bowl, I am optimistic as a u-m fan going forward... if they dont turn the ball over this team WILL be alot better


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 12:50 p.m.

Macabre, your post so illustrates the point that I've been trying to make. I personally am not questioning whether or not you are a fan. However, I completely disagree with your assessment that Michigan is going in the wrong direction and no I do NOT agree that another poor performance indicates that a change is necessary. RR haters would love to have a number or water mark that would illustrate failure, so that they'd have something to root for. Your group has been rooting for his demise from the start. No, you may be a Michigan fan, but you have a traditional thought process as to what Michigan should be. I think some of the negative views of RR have come from that idea, that Michigan should continue to be Power Football, 3 yards and a cloud of dust team. Hey, why question it? It's been somewhat successful for acquiring Big Ten championships, right? Maybe it is the New Michigan fan that wants more, that thinks that the Big Ten Championship should be a milestone on our way to the real goal, the National Championship. Maybe. No one is 'running down' Carr, simply pointing out the hypocrisy. Your gang is turning over rocks to find things to criticize RR for, so when I see things that compare to Lloyd (apparently your mold for a Michigan coach), I point them out. I'm not sure that I am contradicting any loyalty in doing so. In fact, if you don't want to be loyal to RR, that's fine by me. Just be fair in your criticism and my point is that you and the rest of your gang has not been. A lot of the criticism given to RR, could also be applied to Lloyd, I'm just pointing that out. One of the criticisms applied to RR is the rivalry, he doesn't understand the ND or MSU or OSU rivalry. Maybe, but even if that's true, he'll understand that soon enough. My thinking is that he has one goal, to build a National Championship contender, year in and year out. So, Macabre, you don't think RR is the right coach - To-may-to. I like what I've seen to this point and I believe that Michigan will be in every national championship discussion in a year or two and most years after that - To-mah-to.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 12:28 p.m.

Personally I bleed maize and blue and it is about the team and the University and they way we play more than what players we have. They play hard and with class (just check out Tate's quotes from Sat.) and have even set some incredible records. The NFL sports writer's mentality about how the coach's job is in constant jeopardy doesn't help. It hurts recruiting and can become a viscous circle and if some critics don't like being called out on intentions, then that's just too bad because it works both ways. Posts filled with negative conjecture or false rumors or inapplicable downer comparisons in the face of success are comments from those of trash talking rivals. The mold had to be broken, much like when passing finally became a big part of M's offense for Bo's first Rose bowl win after 5 losses. But U of M doesn't hire the Nick Sabans as loyalty does mean something at Michigan and YES Coach Rodriquez will be here next year. All the tools he needs are coming as Michigan is a winner, and the rest of the league knows it- so enjoy it while it lasts.

David Barker

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 12:19 p.m.

I wonder why the actual football game is played when all one has to do is read the comments here and find out everything that will happen for the season. I would venture to say that most of the 'haters' that post here have a very narrow life and have never and I mean never have had a positive though, word or deed. What did you wanted rid of LC, you wanted a NEW Michigan football program, you wanted a program that would not just win 8-9 games a season but one that would vie for a B10 and National Championship yearly. The problem is that you thought you could just hire someone and 'poof there it is. Why don't you grow a set, man up and talk like you may be 'smarter than a fifth grader'. RR is, has been and will continue to be a great football coach....only time will tell if people like you trully want change or reallly just wnat to ahine and complain. The 14-7, 17-14 days of college football are gone and will never return. To win and win at the level you want year in and out takes an offensive powerhouse. You are now seeing just the tip of an offensive machine. Is the defense bad-yes, special teams-yes, kicking-yes, all these areas need to improve and they will. Do you think blue will get better recruits as a result of the offense we now see? ABSOLUTELY, because the hs kids in the 10th, 11th grade see the offense and get excited and want to be a part of what the rst of the country sees, MICHIGAN WILL BE DOMINATE IN THE FUTURE, YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. I don't care what RR did last year or the year before because I am smarter that a 5th grader and understand what it takes to completely reorgainze a major college football program. If 7,8 or 9 wins a season is all you want, fire RR after this season and get a new coach OR support RR, give the program time to grow and reap the rewards down the road....RR is a young amn (47) and could lead Blue for a long time


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 12:18 p.m.

If you are a true Michigan fan you would already know this. It would be terrible if Rich Rod was gone after this year. His offense takes time. He finally has some of his recruiting in the system and look at what the offense is doing. Sure the defense needs work. But there are Freshman all over the field. Give them time to develop. Stop complaining and drinking your haterade and start supporting Big Blue. 3 reasons Rich Rod will be here after this season: 1. Intelligent people in charge see the progress and realize his system takes time to work. He has a proven record of winning at any level. 2. Denard. A heisman trophy front-runner makes the school a lot of money. Money forms decisions. Simple as that. 3. Hiring a new coach means we move back to a pro-style offense. We have 160 lbs kids on our team. They are not set up to run a pro-style offense. A new coach means 2-3 more years of disappointment.

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 11:47 a.m.

Both groups apparently feel they're the only "real" fans. From my perspective, Rodriguez has shown he's in over his head and the sooner we rip off this band-aid, the better. I've been a Michigan fan all my life - that's never going to change - and I believe I wouldn't be doing the team any favors by admiring the naked emperor. It's about the team and the school, not the individual. The more fan-boyish fans worship everything to do with the team, and are too willing to accept poor performance. They're loyal fans in a very different manner. I'm not sure they understand much about football. It's strange the way they run down Carr and Schembechler to make their points - contradicting their own opinions about loyalty. I don't think they see the forest through the trees. Anyhow, I hope we all agree that another poor performance in the conference season means a change is necessary.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 11:45 a.m.

I see two silly ideas here that do not make sense. One, these four games do not mean anything. Sure the bottom line is not known until all games are played, but as some have already noted, 4-0 is 4-0, undefeated, and any one loss would be interpreted as failure. To show improvement Michigan had to go 4-0. Second, RR is not a good coach. Good grief people, this offense is setting Michigan records nearly in every game. DRob is fantastic and deserves the starting spot because no QB is doing what he is doing. And Tate comes in and sets a new record a a backup QB. If you can't see something great going on here you are not paying attention. @aftermac makes a great point, with a better defense this team could go anywhere, since the offense has so many ways to post points. That said, sure things might be different v Big 10 teams, but prior teams that did well overall did not post these numbers in pre conference games. If B10 defenses can put out our offensive fire, it M will crash and burn, but I do not see that happening. Alas, we should not count on winning by scoring over 40 ppg, because defense wins ballgames.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 10:47 a.m.

Blue Marker, Well said!...although I don't think that the people who are at odds are all cheering for the same team. Anyone that is waiting for this team to fail, just so they can beat the "get rid of RR" drum, is not a Michigan fan.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 10:06 a.m.

EyeHeartA2: It appears that you would enjoy seeing the team lose every game. This is a young team with a total makeover in team preparation. You just may be surprised how well they do. It will not be a repeat of 2009. While they probably won't win the Big Ten or compete for a national chanpionship, they could have a good year. This is still a work in progress. I have faith that they will be much better than last year in the Big Ten.

Blue Marker

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 9:39 a.m.

Well, we truly are a house divided. It's sad to see people who cheer for the same team be so at odds. I will reveal which side of the fence I'm on by saying I'm proud of our team and their 4-0 start. There were many of good Michigan teams that couldn't get through September 4-0 so I'm happy these guys did. I'm not ready to hand them the Big Ten Championship but I don't think they'll fold like last year either. This is a different team. I will disagree with some of the posters here and say 7 wins is the basement, not the ceiling. And although the defense has much work to do I feel like Michigan is improving and will be in just about every game they play this year. As for OSU at the end of the year, I believe in a rivalry game anything can happen. Keep you chins up boys and keep working. I'm proud to be a Wolverine fan and will be cheering for you each and every week. Go Blue!


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 9:21 a.m.

When I consider the mentality of the hate bloggers here, a light goes on! What is a person to do when nobody will listen to their garbage? What are they to do when their attitude has produced a big ZERO in the friends column? That's where the light goes on....they go to a blog!...Where they can do their thing under cover of a screen name, and where they can antagonize without risk of loosing their next "friend" candidate. Here's my RR take: I am not impressed with him so far, and many of his actions on and off the field concern me, however, there are several points that I support him on and the bottom line is that I'm a fan of the team! The team, The team, The team. And I love this team! They fight, they work hard, and they seem to be good kids. This is a reflection of the coach and how they feel about him. I'm sure there will be a few bad apples, but RR has shown that he has zero tolerance for them. (One of the things I like about him). It's very simple. The poeple on this blog that wait with baited breath for THE TEAM to fail, so they can blame the coach, are not Michigan Fans. They are only antagonists that have come here because their own friends won't hang out with them, or they don't have any to begin with.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:22 a.m.

OSUbebetter, Do you really wanna point your finger? Do you know who Brock and elliot mealer are? You know the kids from tOsu that were pushed away after a life changing car accident. Remember? His dad died, his girlfriend...he was told he had a mere 1% chance of walking. Where were your glorified trainers and s&c progam then? Why did those kids come here? Why didn't tosu offer the help and rehab needed that M did? Where is boren and all those familly values?


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:14 a.m.

osubebutter... i can't believe you posted that... now your blaming the trainer's... LOL and pretty lame... GO BLUE...


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 8:09 a.m.

TexasMaize&Blue, I agree, it might have been an opportunity to build the kids confidence a little. The guys covering the game indicated that kicking a field goal there would've been showing up the other team, I'm not sure if that played into RR's thought process or not.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 7:53 a.m.

First, let me get this out of the way: @ Lemons - "You okay about 3 wins and 13 losses against the Big Ten?" Of course, no one is 'okay' with it, but did we know coming into RR's tenure that there was going to be transition, yes. What I didn't expect was the way that some 'fans' would come after the guy, immediately. He's not the right guy, he's not a Michigan Man (which is the biggest laugh), he cheats?. Joke. You guys and your blind eye comment, hysterical. Probation? Ha, even more laughable. Your RR hatred is so obvious, that even me and my blind eye can see it. Now, on to what all of you RR haters are doing and it's driving me crazy. Lloyd would have never done this or we'd never accept that under Lloyd. I hate it, that it's come to this, but being a Michigan fan the last ten years under Lloyd has be incredibly frustrating. Year after year, high expectations that are quickly dashed. Here are a few examples: 2000 - Preseason Top 5, ranked #3 and 2-0, but then lose to #17 UCLA. NC hopes gone, right? No. Beat to mid teens ranked big ten teams and move up to #6, only to lose to an unranked Purdue team. NC hopes dashed again. 2001 - Preseason Top 10, lost to #15 Washington in the 2nd game. NC hopes lost? No. Worked our way back to #6, but then lost to unranked Michigan State. NC hopes gone, once again. Finished up by losing to unranked OSU and #8 Tennesse. 2002 - Preseason Top 10, lost to #21 ND, while being ranked #6. Worked our way back to #8 and lost to #14 Iowa at home. Dropped another to OSU, but hey, finished the season 10-3. 2003 - Preseason Top 10, lost to #22 Oregon, while ranked #5, then lost to Iowa two weeks later, dropping back #11. Worked our way back in to a top 5 ranking, but blown out by USC. 2004 - Preseason Top 10, lost to unranked ND and dropped to #17. Worked our way back to #7, but then lost to OSU and Texas. Finished 9-3. 2005 - Preseason Top 5, lost to #22 ND, then unranked Wisconsin and unranked Minnesota (at home) and dropped out of the Top 25. Finished with losses to #9 OSU and unranked Nebraska and again dropped out of the Top 25 2006 - Preseason #15, undefeated ranked #2 going into The Game of the Century at #1 ranked OSU. Incredible game! Anyway, #3 when losing to #7 USC. Finished 10-2 ranked #8. 2007 - Preseason Top 5, losing to unranked Appalachian State and absolutely throttle by unranked Oregon. NC hopes devestated and we drop out of the Top 25. We climb back in the rankings, eventually to #13, before losing to unranked Wisconsin and #7 OSU at home. But hey, we beat Florida and finally win a bowl game. Finish the season at 9-4 and ranked #18. Now, like I said, I hated to do that, but for all of this blind eye garbage that I see the RR haters posting, I thought maybe we'd shine a little light on the Lloyd eutopia that you guys keep referencing.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 7:52 a.m.

Txmainenblue, I agree 100%. The game wasn't in doubt, the kickers needed the work, and it made sense to give them a real live game situation to gain experience kicking a high-percentage field goal. It makes me think that in a tight game on a 4th and 10 from the opponent's 25 yard line with less than a minute to play, RR will choose to go for it instead of trying the field goal. It's sad not to have all the options on the table and might cost the team a win some day.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 7:42 a.m.

Great game! Makes you wonder what Denard would have done if he would have played the whole 1st half? I just wish RR would have had Gibbons or the other kicker try a field goal late in the game - just to give them some more game time experience, with the hope's of boosting their confidence. I mean, do we really need 65 pts and 700 yds? Can't we settle for 61pts and 690ish? I think it would have been prudent to just stop the drive and say "Hey kicker, we are for, lets see what you can do". I think that last drive provided at great opportunity to make a field goal with no real pressure, and even though the next time they try one there will likely be pressure, at least the kicker can approach that attempt knowing he made the last one. Just my 2 cents.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 7:16 a.m.

The Big Ten schedule will determine how good this U-M team is. In my opinion, U-M is definitely better than the following teams: Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois However, they are not of the same caliber as the following teams: Ohio State, Iowa, Wisconsin It could go either way with MSU, Penn State, Northwestern, and Indiana. If this prediction is correct (it may not be), that puts U-M somewhere in the 5th through 8th slot at the end of the year in the Big Ten race. I'm predicting a 5th place finish, which is a definite improvement over last year and should get U-M a bowl game. If the U-M defense somehow shows significant improvement as the year progresses as Tater and others think will happen, it could be a pleasant surprise and a top-tier Big Ten finish. However, to put things in perspective, the Univ of Tulsa gave up 20 pts to Bowling Green with BG's starting QB in there in a 33-20 Tulsa victory. U-M gave up 21. Tulsa also gave up 52 pts at East Carolina and 65 pts to Okla State. I realize comparing the numbers isn't always accurate, but I don't like how this is looking for U-M.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 6:19 a.m.

3 and Pout 1. There has been very little blaming of LC as of late. 2.App St. was called the biggest upset in college football 3.You and your groupies are the only unrational people 4.We dont forget the losses; we watch the improvement 5.Did we win vs. the weaker opponents this year???? 6.What is our record vs. BT this year? 0-0 7.Dont worry, I have bookmarked this and I will let you have it on the day of RR contract extension! UNCHECK. UNCHECK. UNCHECK. UNCHECK. UNCHECK. UNCHECK. GO BLUE!!!!!!!!


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:17 a.m.

"RR's record against the Big Ten is 3-13 we do know that!!!" How long has RR been in the B10? Do you believe that RR's record in the B10 will be sub-.500 after his 10th year as UM HC? Don't bother answering this question because I can presume the kind of nonsense answer you have.


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 4:02 a.m.

You guys cool with DR's diagnosis of a "Minor Knee Sprain"? didnt Tate play busted up all year just to head home and have a real doctor find out that he had a Torn Labrum? Taken from an ann arbor dot com article dated Jan 15 ".....Forcier was diagnosed with the injury when he underwent an MRI while home for Christmas break....." ".....The injury was first reported as a sprain......" Way to go michigan trainers, not like you have a world class medical school behind you. Your star QB has to go home and find a fairly major injury in some walk in clinic? after the season. on whos dime?


Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:44 a.m.

@ThoseWhoStayUofM, You should also show WV's record after RR left; not quite up there, is it? Like I said before, those RR haters just crave for attention. The more we respond to their nonsense, the more we give them fuel to spark their fire. @johnnya2, if information could spread back in the days as fast as it does today, do you think the program would have gone this long with no probation? How many former players under Bo do you think would have loved to go to the press (the FREEP) to ignite a NCAA investigation because they were upset if that was possible back then?

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:43 a.m.

I don't recall Rodriguez saying when he was hired that he would lose 13 of his first 16 conference games. Or that he'd get rid of about a quarter of his predecessor's returning scholarship athletes (including two potential first-team All-Americas this year) because he just couldn't find a way to use them. I want a coach, not a playbook. I don't know that defense necessarily trumps offense every time. I do know that you need to outscore your opponents. It's fun, I guess, to see 700 yards in offense, and have an offense that is among the country's leaders in several categories so far. Let's hope Denard can do his thing in the physical Big Ten. I don't know that I can handle another 22.0 points per game on offense in the conference. That would likely result in a 4-8 record. The 1997 team allowed less than 10 points per game. That's pretty cool. If not for the worst call in the history of college football (the non-interference against Woodson in the closing seconds against Ryan Leaf State), they would have been unanimous national champs. I think this team is better than last year's - really their opponents have been lucky to keep their scoring average under 50 with all that yardage. But it's possible that the defense is worse, and that doesn't bode well. Allowing 400 yards per game on average to a rather mediocre schedule of non-conference opponents is plenty scary. Stanford is a power this year. I don't necessarily see Harbaugh as a savior. Frankly, I think he's going to the NFL next year, like his brother. Now that is how you coach to your talent.

3 And Out

Mon, Sep 27, 2010 : 2:25 a.m.

Psst... hey just thought of a funny and interesting little stat. On Saturday vs. OSU, Ron English's pathetic EMU program scored more points vs. the Buckeyes in one game.... than RR's vaunted offenses at Michigan have scored in two games vs. the Buckeyes.

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:54 p.m.

Flash poll time. No debates or insults here. Simple yes or no answer: If Michigan goes 2-6 or 3-5 in the Big Ten this season, should Rich Rod be retained in your opinion? Please respond. My response below. No.

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:46 p.m.

I hope I'm wrong. But putting up 65 points against one of the five worst teams in the FBS is not a statement. Allowing 37 to a good, but not great FCS team is much more of a statement. As for the rest of the abusive and stupid commentary about those who dare speak out against the naked emperor, yeah, it does sound like Sparty or Buckeye fans. They are delighted we have a coach who is 3-13 in Big Ten play.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:32 p.m.

Completely agree with ThoseWhoStayUofM. Just ignore the RR and Mich haters. First they all said Mich would only win 4 games tops, UConn was gonna be a loss and ND too. Then after those 2 wins, their predictions changed to 7 wins tops. I wonder what their predictions will be after we beat Indiana and MSU? They will prolly change again to say 9 tops which will then contradict their whole arguements and hating. But the 1 thing that wont change is that they will still be all calling for RR's head. Just admit that your wrong and stop embarrassing yourselves.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:29 p.m.

M better continue to score a minimum of 40 points per game unless RR can find a Defense.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:27 p.m.

"Weak schedule? Do you get that?" Weak recruiting power, do you get that? Again, Tressel did well at Youngstown State which justified his hiring. Youngstown State's level of competition is clearly far superior to WVU... right? I understand Tressel did well immediately after he was hired however his personnel were STACKED for his system. Rich Rod clearly and indisputably had NOTHING for him to build upon for the system he CREATED. "Level of competition was poor at WV." It's irrelevant. He took a BAD TEAM and made them BETTER! That is what matters. They were BAD!!!!! He made a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDING TEAM out of BAD!!!! He did it by creating and executing a superior offensive scheme and by utilizing experienced recruiting skills.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11:17 p.m.

"Any blind Rodriguez support is clearly coming from OSU and MSU fans." A beacon of wisdom from an anti-Rich Rod genius. That's right. People who appear to support the coach of the team they love are clearly fans of the their rivals. That's the only logical explanation, am I right? Why do we listen to these people? Why do we even let Rich Rod haters present an argument? We know the facts. We understand that there can be no logical explanation for believing a coach who is 4-0 should be fired. Maybe in late October if Michigan lost the rest of their games, then calling for the firing of Rich Rod would be rational but as of now, why hate a man who is winning? That's like hating lance armstrong while he is leading a race and saying, "He will get tired and fail at the end. I hate him." It's worse than a bandwagon fan. It is hating a coach regardless of whether or not he is winning or losing. You are the lowest of the low. You are the irrational few who hate out of your own inadequacies. You need a villain in your life in order to make you feel like less of a failure and Rich Rod fills that role. Michigan has always been a villain in college football. They have more rivals than any other football program. More people hate Michigan than anyone else. I like seeing the villains win. I'm ok with it, as long as they continue to support the maize and blue.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 11 p.m.

7-11 against top 25 teams. Weak schedule? Do you get that? BC,Miami and Vatech left the conference. Level of competition was poor at WV. Wv did not play anyone could you imagine Mi's record over the years if they only played 2 top 25 teams a season? RR's record against the Big Ten is 3-13 we do know that!!!

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:59 p.m.

I honestly think the opposite. No true Michigan fan would accept this job performance. Any blind Rodriguez support is clearly coming from OSU and MSU fans.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:52 p.m.

Coach Rod has represented the University very well. The big ten has improved and so has Michigan and we'll see how it goes in the win column but so far not too bad at all. The RR haters that keep the constant negativity toward the team and fans must be disgruntled mountaineers or more likely classless buckeye infiltrators, or maybe even just bored Lions fans but NO WAY are they wolverines.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:47 p.m.

"How do you explain [Rich Rod's] record then?" WVU record prior to Rich Rod: 5-6, 7-4, 8-5, 8-4, 4-7, 7-5 (mediocre at best) Rich Rod's record at WVU: 3-8 9-4 8-5 8-4 11-1 11-2 11-2 That's his record. He turned a mediocre West Virginia team into national championship contenders. It just took a few years to get his pieces into place. How do I justify Michigan's record with Rich Rod? There is absolutely ZERO evidence to support the conclusion that this trend will deviate from what happened at WVU. Talk about spin doctors? Here's the facts. Talk about rational opinions? How do you justify yours? "WV a powerhouse?" Won 11 games, blowing out a talented Oklahoma team in their bowl game 48 to 28. This team should have gone to a National Chmapionship that year. Every major analyst agrees. "You are right we do look like a weak west virginia team" Projecting us to go 8-4 in the regular season is exactly where we should be if our progression is to be acceptable. That would mean we went 3-9, 5-7, 8-4... what's next in the sequence? It's not complex! What rational do you have to fire Rich Rod if his progression is consistent as the statistics show? Answer: 11-1. These are the facts my friend, by all definitions of the word.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:44 p.m.

Lol at all the ppl still hating on RR. Scared. Emu Put up 20 on 1 of the best defenses in the COUNTRY!! EMU hasnt won in the last 13 on. Bgsu was picked to contend for the mac..EMU..not so much. Is the defense great? No...But they are on the right track and stars are emerging. With this offense they only have to do so much. They give up yards and make stops and turnovers when they have to (so far) so the numbers don't exactly tell the story. Everyone is complaining about the pass rush..the numbers lie again..low sack count but how many bad passes, throw aways, and 1-3 yrd runs by the qb has there been? Plenty. So if you just look at sacks then maybe this defense isn't for you..? Great..No...servicable...Very much so Stop hating and just become fans...soo much better!! Go Blue


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:43 p.m.

the only sad perspective here is your venom and hate for a coach that is doing his best to turn this program around... you would rather see michigan lose all there game's just so you can say (i told you so)and get rr fired. that's not a michigan fan, that's what is real sad!!! GO BLUE...

Macabre Sunset

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:42 p.m.

If Rodriguez gets five Big Ten wins this season - something Carr, Moeller and Schembechler never failed to do in 39 seasons combined - then he deserves to keep his job. If he doesn't, it proves he's in way over his head and he deserves to be fired. Can we agree on this?

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:34 p.m.

The responses here do show that for the RR apologists.... 2-6 or 3-4 in Big Ten play would be enough for them to be happy. That is a very sad perspective to have.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:29 p.m.

"There is something to be said for not cheating. (spin it anyway you want, no probation in the HISTORY of the program, and in one year rules WERE broken during the RR regime)." ~johnnya2 That's like saying an offensive lineman is cheating when he commits a false start. Yeah, he broke the rules but it was accidental. It wasn't malicious or deceptive. It wasn't an attempt to gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. It was literally a laps of focus and being distracted by other stimuli. This is what happened to Rich Rod. Is this acceptable? Of course not. Should we figuratively bench him for life / kick him off the team? of course not. The only one spinning anything is YOU. You are the one telling half-truths. You are the one purposefully leaving out parts of the story in an attempt to spin it in favor of your agenda, to fire Rich Rod. You are sensationalising this unfortunate incident in a way that is deceptive. Is that the Michigan way? Is that the principles we stand for? Or do we stand for the truth? Do we stand for justice and a never say die attitude that allows us to overcome mistakes that we make and right our wrongs? I'll let you answer that.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:21 p.m.

U of M, RR is a great coach? How do you explain his record then? 3-13 against the Big Ten? WV a powerhouse? 7 wins and 11 losses against top 25 teams at WV. 18 games against top 25 teams is a little over 2 games a season...that is a weak schedule not a powerhouse. You are right we do look like a weak WV team.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:20 p.m.

make that december of 2012... that will give you more time to pOUT about... GO BLUE...

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:15 p.m.

LOL at the RR apologists. Typical checklist: 1) Blame Lloyd Carr. Check. 2) Blame the App State loss for something FAR more than what it was. 3) Blame 3 And Out and the rational people here. Call us names. 4) Ignore RR's history of errors and losses at Michigan. 5) Rationalize the record vs. weaker opponents. 6) Rationalize the terrible BT record under RR. check check check and more check. Let's talk in December shall we? Bookmarking this thread.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:12 p.m.

Richy Rich is here to stay!! Get used to it haters. I don't blame you, because when cowards get scared, they generally get loud. It's in your nature and I forgive you. I think this team is better than last year and we have enough depth to withstand injuries. The D is not very talented or deep, but they are marginally better than last year IMO, and I think they will make enough plays to get us to 8-4. We just need the winnable games, plus one from OSU, PSU, MSU, Wisc., Iowa.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:05 p.m.

3 and Pout How come you keep changing your 'best case' for wins? It used to be "4 or 5 tops". Now its up to 7. I do believe you will be right at the end of the season on your predictions because you will change them as we go along to fit what happens. You lose all credibility when you change your prediction. Be a man and stick to one prediction and live with it. We all know you want RR gone, so all your venom is useless because he WILL be here next year and I am glad to have him. GO DENARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 10:01 p.m.

"It is like so many of these fans are turning their blind eye towards all of the issues with the program" ~3 and out I haven't heard a single Michigan fan say this defense is good, or even mediocre. Not one fan has said the special teams play is anything but sub-par. This statement is unfounded and blatantly ignorant. "but there are cracks in the foundation, huge ones and its not getting better" ~3 and out Michigan will be better than last year. Our defense has actually gotten YOUNGER from an already young defense last year. No coach can make true freshman play like seniors. The great Charles Woodson didn't even play to our standards until his sophomore year. Rich Rod is a great coach based on the merits of his works. He created an offensive scheme from scratch that is now being employed by the best two offenses in all of college football (Michigan and Oregon according to He took a poor WVU program and turned it into a powerhouse in the Big East. If that isn't good enough for you, you are mentally deficient, especially since Tressels only accomplishments prior to OSU was Youngstown State and look how he turned out. Give the guy a chance to acquire the experience and talent he needs and you will see the team soar to success. Just look at the offense. It was atrocious in 2008. Now he has the pieces in place and it's number 1 in ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL. You need to give him a chance to succeed. Let him find the pieces he needs.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9:58 p.m.

Dwayne and those that excuse RR. I hope the team goes 13-0, BUT, I still think Rich Rod should be fired. See there IS something to be said for doing things the Michigan way. There is something to be said for not cheating. (spin it anyway you want, no probation in the HISTORY of the program, and in one year rules WERE broken during the RR regime). Steve Fisher won a lot of games, Pete Carroll won a lot of games at USC. Doesn't mean I want either of them coaching at UM, regardless of the record


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9:33 p.m.

loyd carr never had a qb that produced like dr either, or a team that has put up so much offense...that window dressing qb is the best qb in the COUNTRY!!! you are starting to get real worried and you should be, because rr is not going anyware!!! so sit in your little corner and take a deep breath (3) times (AND) pOUT!!! GO BLUE...


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 9:22 p.m.

Dwayne, You think it is just me? What does App St have to do with hiring the wrong coach? The fact is we have beat 4 bad teams period it does not matter who they were. Coach Carr did not care about putting 65 points on a inferior team. You okay about 3 wins and 13 losses against the Big Ten? Or how about probation for the first time in Mi history?


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:34 p.m.

Anyways my prediction of 9-3 stands with losses to OSU, PSU, and Wisc with a good Jan 1 bowl game.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:31 p.m.

Spin? You want some spin? How about #2 ranked National Championship contender Michigan losing to App State at the Big House. Could Michigan fans have been a little sick of those hopes and expectations being dashed, right out of the gates? You know, it is sad that you guys pit fans of both RR and Loyd against Loyd. I actually like him and I still think he's one of the classiest coaches that you'll find, but you guys act like we went from this year in, year out national championship contending team to RR and that just is not the case.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:29 p.m.

7-5 in ANY way earned will keep rich rod around. the extra month of practice time for the young team will be enouhg to rest thema nd win a bowl game which ever one they make it to (champs sports bowl against syracuse) either way if you cant see that the team is improving with HUGE steps then you clearly dont know football.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:28 p.m.

Its so funny that 3 keeps making excuses for hating. I could care less who the coach is as long as we keep winning, the coach could be mickey mouse for all I care. You all dog Mich for allowing BGSU to put 21 on them? What about OSU that allowed a team that is worse than BGSU to score 20 on them? Does that make their d worse? All im saying is that you dont know whats gonna happen, even tho it sounds like you have it all figured out on paper.

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:17 p.m.

Hey and Lloyd Carr never produced the 3 worst defenses in 131 years of football all consecutively either like your saviour has!!!!! LOL LOL LOL....keep spinning away... lol.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:15 p.m.

Oh and Lloyd Carr never put up 65 points against anybody or had a team that put up 700+ yards off offense in 1 game let alone 2. The final score when Carr was coach against BGSU was 45 to 7.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:12 p.m.

@Lemans This is exactly the kind of garbage that I'm talking about. YOU can see the program needs to go in another direction. So, you like Harbaugh. Haven't we already tried the DUI coaching path? So, you don't get excited about beating unranked opponents, how about when you lose to them? App State, did that get you all excited? Since when does ND have to be ranked to be excited about beating them? Of course, I know the answer to all of those questions, you don't like RR, so you'll turn and twist all points of view to that end. Again, whatever. You enjoy being miserable watching RR coach your Wolverines, because he isn't going anywhere, no matter that YOU feel the program needs to go in another direction. Go Blue!

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:08 p.m.

Agreed Lemansblue... It is like so many of these fans are turning their blind eye towards all of the issues with the program. Perhaps it is RR's sunny disposition + all of the PR videos that the athletic dept is tossing out in the web lately about RR and all the "good" with the program....but there are cracks in the foundation, huge ones and its not getting better. A fast flashy QB who is a great athlete can make it look good on the surface but it is window dressing. Its hard to figure this new breed of Michigan fan. They try to point fingers at us realists and call us "bandwagon" or "walmart" but we are far from that...we just see it how it is. Perhaps the RR apologists are the ones that are the "bandwagon" fans not us. Mgoblog perpetuates that with their constant RR spin. The guy who runs that site never even played competitive football yet each week he posts a laughable spin filled attempt at analyzing the offense and defense!?? Go there today and one poster wrote something about how RR should get a contract extension! LOL>.....after 4-0 vs. 4 non ranked and pretty awful opponents? yes how far we have fallen...but lets be honest here, some of, I, seanT., goblueinPA etc and others keep fighting the good fight and calling it how it is. We want a return to tough, dominating Michigan football...not more years of finesse offense and finesse defense. Peach and Go Blue.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 8:07 p.m.

4-0 is a GOOD THING! As noted everyone is assuming the season has a long way to go and each game will be very competitive.. no easy wins. Defense needs to improve. The defense "kids" are smart and it is a race to see how quickly experience and gained skills will become assets.... and let us hope the kicking game can get on track soon. We certainly will need a little "luck" here and there to get the best results for this season. Go BLUE!


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:58 p.m.

For the long term best interest of the Mi football program we can see we need to go in a different direction. Coach Harbaugh would be the best solution to return Mi football to where it needs to be. Fans that get excited over beating 4 unranked opponents just shows how far our program has fallen under this coach.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:51 p.m.

"I've heard talk that RR is likely out at the end of this season, regardless of this season's record" Yeah, I bet you have. More pessimistic hope. Keep it coming.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:44 p.m.

EyeHeart, I'm guessing you are trying to make a joke, but you do realize that Michigan is actually trying to put Alabama on the NonConference schedule, right? I would say that's a far cry from Chelsea HS. For everyone that says that the 4-0 start doesn't mean anything, ask yourself what certain people would be saying about this team if it had lost even one of those games. I don't care what happened last year, this is a different team. No one is getting carried away, except for the RR head hunters that sit on the edge of their seats with a pessimistic hope that something bad will happen to this team, so that they can pounce on RR. Makes me sick. Yeah, we're used to winning the big ten games, but that's after we've dropped a couple of non-conference games while being ranked #2. I am sick of hearing how having patience in a coaching staff that is implementing a completely different system is in someway a slappy or RR apologist. Ridiculous. 3andOut, you aren't even trying to hide your true motivation anymore. The glee that you have for negative news or projections for this team is kind of sad. You are definitely a lot more of an anti-RR guy that I am an RR slappy. 7-5 is not the best case scenario and I think that you know this. Last years collapse had more to do with injuries at key positions, inexperience and a lack of depth than it did with the Big Ten schedule and I think you know that, as well (of course, you'd refer to those things as excuses...yeah, whatever). No, the 4-0 start does mean something. It's means that fans only have to defend RR's wolverines for giving up too many points, instead of listening to the inevitable calls for his firing, should we have lost anyone of those games. Go Blue!


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:43 p.m.

I've heard talk that RR is likely out at the end of this season, regardless of this season's record. These rumors could be wrong, of course, but even if MI goes 7-5 this year, which would look stellar compared to the last 2 seasons, maybe RR should be updating his resume...the team has a long way to go and needs to prove itself against conference opponents.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 7:13 p.m.

If this team had any kind of a defense, I would say they have a real chance at 11-1. With that said, I think every game from here out is going to be a shootout. I'm not prepared to say they are any better than 7-5 or 8-4. Anything more than that will be a pleasant surprise.

3 And Out

Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 6:30 p.m.

It is true 4-0 does not mean anything. Let's assume perhaps a best case scenario that this team ends up 7-5 and making a lower bowl game. So what? That would mean a 3-5 Big Ten record which would be pathetic. The 3 year (and out) BT total for Rich Rod Error would be 6 wins. 2 per year. Michigan is used to winning 6-7 BT games each year....each year...not every 3 years. This is why if they do get lucky and go 7-5, then it should be 3 and Out for RR. That BT record would be unacceptible....particularly if they lose to MSU, PSU and OSU again..... peace.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 6:21 p.m.

Some good posts here. I'm glad to hear that the team is not getting as carried away with their 4-0 record and 65 points vs. Bowling Green as some fans are. They need to take it one game at a time. And unlike the ridiculous "refs cost us" post on here, I'm glad the team is taking ownership of what happened last season and working to correct it.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 4:09 p.m.

Last year if you had to pick one thing and one thing only that really cost us, it was turnovers. As long as we stay EVEN on turnover margin, we should be successful, which to me is 8+ wins. However, this year those things could be our apparently worse defense and our kicking game. Yikes. I was almost happy with the way yesterday's game went, I almost crapped a brick when Denard was hurt, but upon seeing the replay I was confident he would be fine, since I knew it wasn't an ACL type of injury (he could have damaged his knee cap though which would have been bad). I say I was happy because I knew our backups would get some snaps. Gardner did his thing, while probably battling the most jitters he's had in his life; he had a touchdown throw and a couple of them practically stolen from him. His main mistake was not using his legs to escape the pocket on that 4th down attempt. Most reassuring of all was how Forcier played and looked on the field. He proved, at least to me, that Michigan will be able to compete against anyone even if Denard gets hurt. He's certainly no Denard, but he's a great QB in his own right, with surprising quickness and speed. He's by far the most accurate thrower. Denard's accuracy has improved but his ability to run actually skews his accuracy some. Hopefully Forcier's injury proves to be as minuscule as I believe Denard's to be. All in all, good performance. This article is very true. Michigan can't afford to be overconfident, not only because it's foolish but because it's not even warranted with how they've played. Indiana is probably the best team we've played yet, so we're going to need to step it up in all areas to start out 1-0 in Big Ten play.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 3:44 p.m.

We came close to shutting down the potent Bowling Green offense with their 3rd string quarterback at the helm. Held them to a measly 3 touchdowns. For as much progress our offense has made, or defense has regressed. Greg Robinson is not a defensive coach and his lack of ability will be painfully obvious once we start playing against men.


Sun, Sep 26, 2010 : 3:03 p.m.

I agree completely. With our defense and kicking game, NO remaining game on our schedule is going to be easy. Quite the opposite. This team MUST prove they can consistently beat Big Ten teams to be able to say "Michigan's back". And that won't be fully known until November. Still, I think this year's offense is MUCH better than last year's. With the QB's being much improved and deeper, and the OL being better and more depth also, that's a good situation by itself. And our receivers seem to be getting better all the time too. Roundtree and Stonum are turning into two big-time players. And Odoms is also very good. The mantra now should be take one game at a time. Play as hard as possible and try to eliminate the big mistakes (turnovers). If they do that, I can see a much more successful year than 2009. Go Blue!